From "Epstein is dead, Maxwell is guilty. Now let’s talk about the men who escaped" by Camilla Long (London Times).
I agree with the substance of this piece. That's why I'm quoting it. That said, I'd like to talk about grotty liggers and chaffering drongo. Those are 4 great words, and I only know "grotty" — short for "grotesque." So let's research.
It turns out that "liggers" are people who "lig," and "to lig" — which is a dialect variant of "to lie" — means "To idle or lie about (colloquial); also (slang), to sponge, to ‘freeload’; to gatecrash or attend parties." That's according to the OED, which gives us the quotes "It's a time for ligging in the streets and doing your thing, man" (1969) and "The Feelgoods, now ligging and gigging around America" (1976).
So, yes, obviously, these were grotty liggers.
By the way, the OED cites "A Hard Day's Night" as the first recorded use of "grotty": "'I wouldn't be seen dead in them. They're dead grotty.’ Marshall stared. ‘Grotty?’ ‘Yeah—grotesque.’"
So, yes, obviously, these were grotty liggers.
By the way, the OED cites "A Hard Day's Night" as the first recorded use of "grotty": "'I wouldn't be seen dead in them. They're dead grotty.’ Marshall stared. ‘Grotty?’ ‘Yeah—grotesque.’"
On to chaffering drongo. To "chaffer" is to bargain or haggle. And to call someone a "drongo" — originally a type of bird — is to say they are a stupid fool. Fine to say that about Andrew, but it's a bit unfair to disparage the bird, which seems rather smart:
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Drongo is a common nickname in Australia.
Trump may have said Epstein was a terrific guy but he wasn’t photographed getting a shoulder rub from a teenager or flying on the pedo’s private jet.
Bill Clinton is so disgusting and yet the old guard feminists STILL give him a pass. 🤮
"Where are the people — sorry, men — who flocked"
Where they've always been. Hiding in plain sight. Protected by progressive omertà.
But I don't think they are "pedophiles" in the strict sense of the term.
Anyway, as Althouse told us earlier today, we should listen to Christ and focus on forgiveness. Let's be kind to those poor men. Don't cast the first or even the second stone.
Trump threw Epstein out of his club in FL.
The FBI has "lost" all the data, names and photos from Epstein's mansion.
the early worm gets eaten by the bird.
I wrote here a few days ago- if Maxwell had nothing on Trump or an important Republican, then the plea negotiations were non-existent. Any information gleaned in the FBI raids that could be used for prosecutions of the men involved were buried for political reasons, or kept for leverage on important business men. And if the stories are true that Epstein was a government employee off the books of the intelligence agencies, they will never allow the evidence gathered to make a single show in court.
I'm curious ... do the words 'Bill' and/or 'Clinton' make an appearance in her screed?
I am familiar with all four words, but then I watch a ton of British crime dramas.
Where is the feminist outrage about how this is being handled?
Maxwell's brother has said she's not going to give out names in return for a reduced sentence. Hopes to keep her alive a bit longer, seems.
Undertone is....she has the names. Maybe in more than one place.
Which reiterates the question, why not Epstein? Did the feds eat up all his alternatives? Which would mean he wasn't as smart as he thought.
British slang is hilarious.
Maxwell isn't the only one to go to jail over this. A man went first, but he didn't stay long.
My wife and my favorite scene from Hard Day’s Night…..”& who’s this Susan when she’s at home…”., thanks for that.
audrey strauss is who is running this rodeo, (mother in law to cuomo's factotum) but who made the decisions, whose running the trafficking network now,
the cameras were turned off and the guards were away... Epstein died.
A happy coincidence!
Maxwell's prison guard
The Biden DOJ will do nothing. But I am interested to see if Maxwell publishes her blackmail material on the internet. At this point, what has she got to lose?
The more I read of this, the more I believe in the Illuminati, Pizzagate, the Stonecutters, etc.
Also, how the F**k is Trump the sole American named (at least in the excerpted version - grotty paywall)? He didn't even go there!
Maxwell's dad died somehow going over the side of a yacht at sea, while embroiled in controversy, so maybe they are going to make a tradition of "Another Maxwell did not kill themself."
There is a theory around that says the the powerful have a club, and the same way a man must commit a murder to get into some gangs, so that there is no going back, and no squealing, the theory goes that to get on the inside, you have to commit the most unspeakable, unforgivable crime, a reputation ruining crime, in order to keep you shut up forever. It doesn't seem so nutty anymore. Don't color me surprised if no further investigations happen, given that the investigation into Epstein's death was just ended on New Year's Eve.
"He didn't even go there!"
He's not in the club.
Jeffrey Epstein didn't go to jail?
I guess it's not every day that we are present at the creation of a new meme.
Not only did he go there, he didn't get out alive.
Speaking of British slang, the story on Maxwell's dad is that he was on the yacht with his girlfriend. He asked her to Toss Him Off, so she did.
I wonder why they aren't going after these people....
April: Flight logs obtained as part of civil lawsuits against Epstein show an assortment of politicians, academics, celebrities, heads of state and world leaders flying on Epstein’s private jets in the early 2000s. Among them: former President Bill Clinton, former national security adviser Sandy Berger, former Colombian President Andrés Pastrana and lawyer Alan Dershowitz.
Miami Herald
Even Sandy Burglar... sigh.
"Where are the people — sorry, men"
It's not man-woman, it's good-evil. Making it man-woman is just an attempt to steal from decent men.
Maxwell wielded the girls to break the glass ceiling. #HateLovesAbortion
Trump may have said Epstein was a terrific guy but he wasn’t photographed getting a shoulder rub from a teenager or flying on the pedo’s private jet.
Not bothered by photos of Trump with Epstein or comments he may have made about him. Trump has been chum photographed with all sorts of people, including the Clintons who were invited to his wedding. And Trump praises and disparages people according to what is in his current best interest.
What bothers me was that he appointed Alexander Acosta, the US Attorney who made the very dubious agreement with Epstein, to be his Labor Secretary. That's a typical patronage/political favor post rather than a key policy position. Doesn't prove anything, just looks suspicious. Someone in the GOP, it doesn't have to be Trump, was pushing him for that position.
Most likely Epstein had dirt on key people in both parties and perhaps had some connection with various intelligence agencies. I'd like to see the truth come out, but I doubt that will happen.
Michael K: "Drongo is a common nickname in Australia"
What a ridiculous nickname! Too many letters as well.
tim in vermont: "Even Sandy Burglar... sigh."
Sandy has a long history of shoving things down his pants.
Comey's daughter was prosecuting this? Forget about it Jake, it's democrat Town. Muggers, buggers and thieves, aw, but they're cool people.
Yum! Scorpion Tartare.
That said, I'd like to talk about grotty liggers and chaffering drongo.
We had a revolution in order not to have to talk that way.
Where are the people — sorry, men — who flocked to 'Paedophile Island' and flew on the 'Lolita Express'?
Forget it Camilla, it's Clinton Town
Acosta is a latino fron south florida, a dean at a law school, his predecessor had been subject to some metoo charge or something, just as with perdue pharmaceuticals, they had bought the stage,
What boggles my mind is the news media's staggering incuriosity towards the identities of Epstein's accomplices. Thirty years ago every newspaper and news network in the country would have had half their reporters chasing the story to the ends of the earth, politics be damned. But not now. These days our esteemed fourth estate appears either clueless, completely cowed, or willing coconspirators in these crimes. Are the news networks still that enamored / terrified of the Clintons? There had to have been some GOP toads caught up in the mix as much as the Dems, so what other excuse could there be for looking the other way?
Or is the media's loyalty to The Swamp more important than the minimal journalistic integrity they have left?
Since he whipped Cancer, Joementia should turn his curative efforts to the scourge of Terminal Fat Fingers.
Never heard of grotty before. The word grody was kinda popular in my youth, and has about the same meaning. Are these just the same word, but the British pronounce/spell it differently?
Strange that Trump name is mentioned, but no discussion of Bill Clinton being ID'd on Epstein island or his name showing up on the manifest 28 times. Trump, of course, broke with Epstein in early 2000 when Epstein sexually harrassed a Margo Logo employee. And trump's only hitched a ride with Epstein when he was flying to Boston or NYC.
Talking about how "only women suffer" is rather humorous in the is context since Epstein is dead. Either murdered or a suicide.
"We know, obviously, about Prince Andrew, a terminally fat-fingered chaffering drongo who is slowly being comically lost in the snaky coils of Epstein’s former towel girl Virginia Roberts Giuffre. Will he ever end up in court? Who cares?""
Presumably you, since you want the male culprits incarcerated.
One of my friends on Facebook posted something in the same vein from Occupy Democrats, demanding an investigation into the men who were involved. I laughed when I saw it. This poor gal has no concept of the soccer term 'own goal.' The people who would be caught up in the web would be influential Democrat politicians and their donors/celebrity friends, almost to a man.
Lest we forget, Jeffrey was murdered for his part. More for being a threat to the privileged so-called elite than for kidnapping, abusing, and pimping underage girls to be sure, but at least he died for it. Maxwell knew full well what was happening, so I have not problem with her 65 year sentence. But there are 100 people, mostly male, walking off scot free, and I agree that is totally wrong. But since I expect Maxwell to be dead in less than 2 months, unless she starts talking and then she won't last the week out, then nothing will happen to them. And anyone who makes too much noise about it will get January 6thed.
I didn't follow the trial that closely but I don't think that the victim/witnesses testified as to any sexual acts involving any man other than Jeffrey Epstein. The woman who has sued Prince Andrew did not testify at Maxwell's trial.
If the press raised a ruckus when Epstein didn't kill himself, we'd know much more.
Perhaps the prosecutors would have feared letting the men off and they would have done more to prosecute them.
Their silence signaled the coverup would stay covered.
The "where are the men" piece is the final cover over their complicity.
One of the funniest comedies of the 1970’s was “The Fall and Rise of Reginald Perrin” . In the second, “The Producers-like”, season the hero of the piece, Reggie, after getting fired from his job, decides to open a shop in which everything in it is guaranteed to be absolutely useless. The shop, called “Grot” becomes a a smashing success.
Amexpat said...
What bothers me was that he appointed Alexander Acosta, the US Attorney who made the very dubious agreement with Epstein, to be his Labor Secretary. That's a typical patronage/political favor post rather than a key policy position. Doesn't prove anything, just looks suspicious. Someone in the GOP, it doesn't have to be Trump, was pushing him for that position.
Trump had a lot of really awful Cabinet appointments. I assume he was stupid enough to trust a bunch of DC Republicans to tell him "who was good" to appoint.
It's one area where Cruz would have been far better.
"The Fall and Rise of Reginald Perrin"
Wonderful show, starring Leonard Rossiter.
“Grotty” brings to mind the “Bag your toenails — they’re so grotey” sensibility of “Valley Girl “.
Trump had a lot of really awful Cabinet appointments. I assume he was stupid enough to trust a bunch of DC Republicans to tell him "who was good" to appoint.
I wouldn't call it "stupid." He was naive in thinking Republicans wanted good government. Cruz would probably go quickly bankrupt in the New York real estate world.
Long frames herself as an advocate for the women, but she wants us to think of Giuffre as a slithering predator. She names Trump, of course, but not Clinton.
I don't know, but Ima guess Giuffre did name Clinton.
What do you think the odds are of getting cancelled in the United States for correctly using the word "liggers" at work or on a college campus, especially if you say it out loud?
"You callin me a ligger, Howard?"
NO, No Muhammad. Frugal..
I lived in London while back. Grotty was used to mean dirty, low class, unkempt. "Grot" mean dirt. Muck.
So I don't think "grotesque" captures the meaning.
Stop calling him Prince Andrew. His name is Andrew Windsor. My best guess is he is not even in the top 50 of Epstein's customers, with respect to the level of guilt with respect to sex crimes against young victims.
also, effinayright is correct about the etymology of grotty, I think. the explanation that "grotty" is short for "grotesque" is something untrue that someone once said, and someone else believed it.
We called the alcohol bums living in Isla Vista's dogshit park, Groters.
They weren't women, they were girls. Although, there is a femimasculinist movement to lower the age of consent, to change the religion to a modern model of old, in order to increase the pool of viable male and female candidates.
grotty: slang shortening of grotesque, it had a brief vogue 1964 as part of the argot popularized by The Beatles in "A Hard Day's Night." It unconsciously echoes Middle English groti "muddy, slimy," from Old English grotig "earthy," from grot "particle."
- etymonline.com
SNOPES SAYS:
In around 30 states across the U.S., the age of consent is 16 years old. Meanwhile, in just a handful of states, the age of consent is 17 years old. In more than eleven states, including Florida, the age of consent is 18 years old.
"online dictionaries" are written by swots
Forget it Jake. It's Chinatown...
'The Biden DOJ will do nothing.'
But the Trump DOJ should have released everything.
If Trump is the last R standing I will vote for him.
But I will never forgive him for not pardoning Assange or for not shutting down the F-B-I, firing Fauci, etc.
He had the power and he fucked up...
Joe, Trump is very very aware that he would be President right now if he had fired Fauci.
My wife watched an investigative report about Maxwell today, I don't know on which network/roko feed. It was remarkable. Other than the Andrew pile on, the only other mention of any people AT ALL involved included a blurb about how GM meet one of the victims at Trump's resort Mar o Lago, and that Trump called Epstein a "terrific guy" and to Maxwell he "wishes her well."
Prosecutors were able to build a case BARD against her. They didn't have that ability concerning all of the men who used Epstein's services. Too much he-said-she-said with only ever single witnesses against the guys.
So, to avoid all of the likely defamation lawsuits from people whom the prosecutors can't prosecute, they've kept those names out of it, even asking that the file be sealed for just this reason.
It looks corrupt, but I think it's just self-preservation.
I prefer dozy bints. Well. I don't prefer them.
'Prosecutors were able to build a case BARD against her. They didn't have that ability concerning all of the men who used Epstein's services. Too much he-said-she-said with only ever single witnesses against the guys.'
I'm sure the tens of thousands of photos and thousands of hours of video that were confiscated from his various estates weren't any help at all...
Michael K said...
Me: Trump had a lot of really awful Cabinet appointments. I assume he was stupid enough to trust a bunch of DC Republicans to tell him "who was good" to appoint.
I wouldn't call it "stupid." He was naive in thinking Republicans wanted good government. Cruz would probably go quickly bankrupt in the New York real estate world.
I'm sure Cruz would suck at NY real estate.
Trump ran against "the Swamp", then used it to pick his personnel.
IMO Trump's biggest failing as President was that he simply didn't understand that in DC, "Personnel is policy".
Hopefully, he's figured that out. Because I do think teh GOP nomination is his in 2024 if he wants it, and absent "spark a civil war" level of vote fraud I expect any GOP candidate to beat teh Dem in 2024
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