December 8, 2021

"We’re an employer too, the state of Michigan is... I know if that [vaccine] mandate happens, we’re going to lose state employees."

"That’s why I haven’t proposed a mandate at the state level. Some states have. We have not, we’re waiting to see what happens in court." 

Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer said on Monday, quoted in "Dems begin souring on vaccine mandates" (Politico). 

As for Biden, unnamed Democrats have "concerns... that they’re ending up with the worst of all worlds: a blunt policy that won’t go into effect but that will saddle them politically." As one "strategist" put it: "it’s just another thing added to the pile of shit that he’s already been dealing with." We're told: "Aides are convinced that the mandates are necessary to finally tamp down the pandemic, which they believe is Biden’s political end-all, be-all." 

Supposedly, Biden "wanted to steer clear of the politicization that has hampered much of the Covid-19 response, viewing mandates as a concept that could easily spark blowback." He's the President. Why didn't he get what he wanted? Others prevailed, somehow, and he's stuck with the political problem. 
That looks as though the real political problem is that he's not running things, but I can see that the official answer to that is Biden initially believed nearly everyone would voluntarily get the vaccination, but he changed his mind when that didn't happen. A strategist tells us that the 2016 election showed that "[v]oters wanted leadership and a plan, and President Biden delivered." I interpret that to mean Biden's people are making choices that give the impression that he's delivering leadership.

The article ends with this quote from NY Mayor Bill De Blasio*: "They can’t backpedal now — nor should they. That would be insane. It would fuck every local elected official who has tried to follow their lead and cause mass confusion." 

____________________

* CORRECTION: In the comments, mezzrow says "My read says the fuckery comment is from a Dem strategist rather than DeBlasio, AA." Oh, damn, mezzrow is right. I don't like getting anything wrong, but quite aside from that, I hate that it wasn't Bill De Blasio. The quote is so much more exciting when it's by Bill De Blasio. Oh, maybe it was him. He is "another Democratic strategist" — to use Politico's term — and the quote comes right after he was named. I'm not excusing my misreading, just grasping at the lost reality I once enjoyed, the one where the mayor of New York City is growling don't fuck me.

58 comments:

David Begley said...

“He's the President. Why didn't he get what he wanted? Others prevailed, somehow, and he's stuck with the political problem.“

Three federal judges have stopped POTUS. Separation of Powers worked. The Sixth Circuit will soon rule. Thanks Framers!

The Dems are finally realizing that Joe Biden is a fucking idiot. Obama was correct.

Wilbur said...

Should anyone be dismayed or surprised that the Biden Administration views any response to Covid - and presumably anything else - only through a political prism? That polls are their lodestar for everything?

Has it always been thus? I don't think Cal Coolidge governed this way.

gilbar said...

rehajm said...

"it’s just another thing added to the pile of shit that he’s already been dealing with."

They don’t realize they are causing all the problems.

tim maguire said...

I’m surprised Whitmer is bowing to reality. She usually seems more the bloody-minded doctrinaire, like De Blasio.

Biden initially believed nearly everyone would voluntarily get the vaccination, but he changed his mind when that didn't happen.

Of course. Not unlike the draft, it’s voluntary, so long as everyone volunteers.

mezzrow said...

My read says the fuckery comment is from a Dem strategist rather than DeBlasio, AA.

Politico - Tiger Beat on the Potomac.

Big Mike said...

They’re beginning to sour? Then the’re way behind where the public is at.

There are legitimate questions about the safety and efficacy of the vaccines, and the Democrats’ response has been that they know best and forget the questions and get your vaccine now, NOW, NOW! Why is it that people who have been vaccinated, even (or especially?) young, strong, athletes, seem to be developing heart issues at an unusual rate? We’re not supposed to ask. Why do some reports seem to show that vaccinated people are just as likely to contract coronavirus as unvaccinated, while other studies apparently say otherwise? Is this a difference in populations, or type of vaccine, or are we looking at bogus “research” in some cases? Don’t ask, just roll up your sleeves!

And Americans are responding the way that Americans so typically respond to coercion, with a one-fingered salute. It seems strange to me that professional politicians would understand the population they seem to govern so poorly, yet here it is.

Lem said...

Biden delivered a plan?

Ann Althouse said...

"“He's the President. Why didn't he get what he wanted? Others prevailed, somehow, and he's stuck with the political problem.“ Three federal judges have stopped POTUS. Separation of Powers worked. The Sixth Circuit will soon rule. Thanks Framers!"

When I wrote "Why didn't he get what he wanted?" I was referring to his wanting only voluntary vaccination. There's no way the courts would have stopped that.

Bob Boyd said...

As one "strategist" put it: "it’s just another thing added to the pile of shit that he’s already been dealing with."

The call is coming from inside the pile!

Ann Althouse said...

@mezzrow

Thanks. Corrected in the post

BoatSchool said...

Joe Biden has made a career out of lying, which lying got him into political trouble.

When caught lying he often lied about lying unless there was documentary proof (e.g. law school records) that he was lying.

In fact he lied just the other day about being called upon by Gouda Meir to assist in Middle East peace talks (at a time when he was either a 2nd year law school student or a 2nd year senator).

Why should anyone believe - 50+ years into this track record - anything that he says or is purported to say ?

Mike (MJB Wolf) said...

tim in vermont said...

"It would fuck every local elected official who has tried to follow their lead and cause mass confusion."

If local elected officials are trying to cause mass confusion, following the lead of the White House, maybe they should be 'fucked."

Mike (MJB Wolf) said...

Boy does this follow that old Chinese adage! Those who vote for boring are destined to live in very interesting times.

Mike (MJB Wolf) said...

I deleted my comment because I misread the quote. Ack.

iowan2 said...

The last time the govt got it right and told the truth, was way back at "2 weeks to flatten curve". Meaning, the mandated procedures would "flatten", not prevent, hospitalizations and deaths. At the end of the graph, the area below the line (deaths) will be exactly the same, with or without mandates. Why? Virus gonna virus.

This trajectory follows all other viral events.

Even now. The current variant is more contagious, but far less lethal....just like past virus outbreaks

Breezy said...

“It would fuck every local elected official who has tried to follow their lead and cause mass confusion."

Another ambiguous statement…. Exactly who is causing the mass confusion?

David Begley said...

Well, Joe Biden is still a fucking idiot.

Kevin said...

Apart from the bodily coercion thing, which is not insignificant, the bottom line is that the vaccines don't stop you from getting it and don't stop you from giving it. So it isn't hugely clear what even 100% vaccination rates will actually get us.

This sets it apart from immunizing vaccines like polio, smallpox, etc. If this really was a silver bullet, I can see going to the mat to make sure that bullet did its thing for your whole populace. But unfortunately it isn't a silver bullet

jaydub said...

Why is this decision being blamed on Biden? Hasn't he repeatedly stated that he gets in trouble when he wanders from the script his handlers provide to him.

Chris said...

"I’m surprised Whitmer is bowing to reality. She usually seems more the bloody-minded doctrinaire, like De Blasio."

Whitmer has discovered that the public in Michigan have completely soured on her and she's trying to salvage the potential for a following term.

mezzrow said...

For the record, mezzrow also hates that it wasn't DeBlasio.

What a putz. To the last drop.

Kevin said...

Joe Biden has managed to f**k up the adoption of a free vaccine that keeps you from getting killed.

Lloyd W. Robertson said...

I've enjoyed suggesting that we never really hear from Biden, we hear from his ventriloquist(s). I may change this to saying Biden is a "mechanical Turk," which was an automaton used in theatrical-type performances in the 1800s. There was a person hidden offstage or in a black box onstage, allowing the automaton to perform. One famous example played chess; P.T. Barnum bought one (from magician Robert-Houdin) that could apparently read and write.

Leaving the border with Mexico open, even when the results seem increasingly disastrous, is the kind of thing someone with dementia, not really able to pay attention, would do. On the other hand, "Biden" has no doubt hired some ideologues who honestly believe that if they just do the opposite of Trump, the country will be better off and Dems will be rewarded with electoral sucess, and access to Washington cocktail receptions and high-end charity functions in New York.

So-called management of Covid was bad under Trump, but it seems worse under Biden. No consistent messaging as to what it is wise for people to do (without necessarily forcing them to do it) or what the evidence actually says. So now they either think vaccine mandates were brilliant because we were "this close" to zero Covid (were they taking advice from one of those Cuomos?), or the mandates were colossally stupid and many Dems are now fucked whenever they face re-election. Not an inspiring picture.

Howard said...

The dims need to be better at making ADA accomodations for republican snowflakes. Whitmer gets it.

Sebastian said...

"He's the President. Why didn't he get what he wanted?"

Funny!

Anyway, Biden's entire tenure in office is a modified limited hangout.

Darkisland said...

Apparently Alec Baldwin has killed more people than Omicron.

Perhaps the reason that President Brandon does not get what he wants is because he is (allegedly) "President" of the US. He is not the King, tsar or even governor of the US. A president "presides" s/he does not rule.

The president, Obama, Trump or Brandon, has very little power to do much about. He can recommend or exhort using his bully pulpit. But he cannot, for example, impose a lockdown, or facemasks or a vaccination. He can try, using the govt power of the purse or agencies like OSHA or FAA.

But in general there is not much he can do without changing the constitution.

John LGBTQBNY Henry

LGBTQBNY = Let's get Brandon to quit but not yet. We need to get our president emeritus into the veephouse first.

MadisonMan said...

I know if that [vaccine] mandate happens, we’re going to lose state employees.

More to the point, Governor: If it happens, you're going to lose votes. (Rightly!)

Gospace said...

Why didn't he get what he wanted? Voluntary lining up for a 100% vaccination rate? Well, that's actually easy. Nothing gets a 100% voluntary compliance rate, nothing. Seat belts? Enforced under threat of fine. Bicycle helmets where required by law? Yeah, close to zero enforcement. Motorcycle helmets? Nope. Don't drink under 18? Now 21? Yeah, right.

A big additional problem is- there are anti-vaxxers, period, out there who don't believe in any vaccination. I'm not talking here about the Amish, AFAIK- zero vaccination rate. I'm talking about highly credentialed mostly liberal Democrats- as represented by Robert Kennedy Jr. All vaccines are unneeded or potentially harmful and besides they cause autism! There is no actual link I see between vaccines and autism, but it's solidly believed by many.

As for skeptics of just this vaccine, well, some have mentioned some of the problems above. Athletes over the world, fully vaxxed, dropping dead on the playing fields at far higher rates than the past. Now we didn't actually know at the beginning that would happen. Some suspected. What did we know at the beginning? Karl Denninger has actually written about that. This is one key sentence from his diatribe: "There was plenty of reason to believe the spike protein, alone, was dangerous even without the rest of the virus and this was known prior to mass-distribution of the jabs." The vaccines being used in the USA force the body to manufacture the spike protein, a known pathogen. That by itself should have set off alarm bells and flashing red lights in the minds of every rational thinker. Well, actually, it did. If you knew that, and it didn't, perhaps you're not as rational a thinker as you think you are...

And then there's a group I discount- those who believe that the vaccine push by virtually every government in the world is a conspiracy to depopulate the world. TBH, right now, there are likely more believers in that than there are people who follow Robert Kennedy Jr, and probably overlap...

Yancey Ward said...

Whitmer is running for reelection next year- it concentrates the mind of even the most clueless.

Big Mike said...

The current variant is more contagious, but far less lethal....just like past virus outbreaks.

@iowan2, I assume you’re talking about omicron? If we had competent people at CDC they’d be turning omicron into a true vaccine, the way cowpox (source of the world’s first vaccine) was an easily-caught but far less lethal variant of smallpox.

Yancey Ward said...

Bob Boyd for the win!

Yancey Ward said...

That g*****med confusion fucking up the brilliant plans of Democrats like Howard.

Bruce Hayden said...

“We're told: "Aides are convinced that the mandates are necessary to finally tamp down the pandemic, which they believe is Biden’s political end-all, be-all."”

|f they really are that brain dead, they shouldn’t be allowed within sight of the levers of power.

1. The arguments that the vaccines could tamp down the pandemic are based on the theory of herd immunity. This falls apart because:
- The “vaccines” are only called “vaccines” because the bureaucrats changed the official definition of the word this year. Calling these novel gene therapies “vaccines” doesn’t mean that they act like we expect a vaccine to, in mostly eliminating the spread of a virus. Word games don’t save lives, when science and medicine are involved.
- For herd immunity to work, vaccines must be close to “sterilizing”. There is even a (fairly obvious) refinement to the Herd Immunity Threshold (HIT) calculation that takes into account leakiness of a vaccine. That means few, if any, “breakthrough” cases. We have known since the P Town Gay Fest in early July that that wasn’t true with these vaccines. We now know that they provide little, if any protection from spread of the virus, at all, and maybe even be accelerating it by increasing asymptomatic spread.
- Part of why these novel vaccines are so leaky is that they only sensitize our immune systems to a couple of the most critical spike proteins, and not the entire viron.
- Even if these vaccines were sterilizing, and not so leaky, it is likely that they wouldn’t get us to herd immunity anyway, because SARS-CoV-2 is a respiratory virus that can easily cross species boundaries, and thus has reservoirs in those other species. Moreover, its structure is such that it’s infection medium (in their spike) is robust, and thus can easily mutate around these vaccines. The viruses that have been successfully fought with herd immunity were not respiratory viruses, and instead have a much more complex, and thus sensitive to mutation, cell infection mechanism. It’s easy - SARS-CoV-2 is structurally far more similar to flu viruses, than it is to the polio virus. We have known this since at least January of 2000. SARS-CoV-2.
- Compounding this, mutations create variants, and respiratory viruses mutate easily. Delta has doubled infectivity (R0) over the ancestral variant, increasing HIT from 60% to 80%. Omicron may even be worse.

2. These vaccines are not known to be safe. They never underwent full FDA testing. Instead, because of the perceived urgency of their need, full testing was bypassed. And the vaccines were made available under Emergency Use Authorizations. That is still the case today. Indeed, the control group for one of the vaccines was broken for “compassionate” reasons- apparently the idea being that since it doesn’t immediately kill most of its recipients, they couldn’t ethically deprive those who were given the placebo, their benefit.

3. There is increasing evidence that these vaccines are actually dangerous. Part of the problem may be that the spikes generated from the mRNA weren’t supposed to migrate from the injection site. They apparently do, and often apparently migrate to inconvenient locations such as lymph nodes and heart muscles. The spikes appear to be toxins to part of our bodies.

4. There has been little effort to quantify the risk. The FDA has utilized monitoring methods guaranteed to undercount side effects. COVID-19 has an almost exponential risk profile versus age, and it is even stronger if known comorbidities are taken account of. There have been almost no deaths for those under 18, and most of those had comorbidities like obesity. On the flip side, fatalities or permanent disability appear to correlate negatively with fitness, and, thus age.

How again is vaccinating everyone with these extremely leaky novel gene therapies recently redefined as vaccines, supposed to protect us from this fast mutating, survivable by almost all, respiratory virus? And, given their danger, why should we?

LA_Bob said...

Chris said, "Whitmer has discovered that the public in Michigan have completely soured on her and she's trying to salvage the potential for a following term."

Likely true.

There's a clip of Jordan Peterson ranting that he got vaccinated for nothing. He says a Canadian official told him government COVID policy is driven by poll results rather than science.

https://youtu.be/0fhlSw72Z5M?t=111

H L Mencken was right about democracy. "We the People" need to be careful what we wish for. On the other hand, politicians need to be careful as well. "We the People" can turn on a dime.

dbp said...

"A strategist tells us that the 2016 election showed that "[v]oters wanted leadership and a plan, and President Biden delivered.""

Doesn't the strategist mean the 2020 election? Also, I think voters wanted a normal, boring president--which is what they got. What they didn't count-on, was that Biden's diminished mental capacity has led to staffers and appointees running the country. In every administration, the "help" are usually much more ideological than the top guy and the president moderates their passion into something nicely bland.

This is something I predicted and was horrified at the prospect. It is also something that radical leftists of my acquaintance, also foresaw and found to be something which made Biden palatable.

Critter said...

So Dems want to avoid politicization of COVID by obsessively talking about the politics of mandates? I thought the issue was the legality of mandates.

I think it is time to recognize that Biden’s policies on COVID have failed big time. Deaths are greater in 2021 than 2020 without a Trump vaccine. The excessive lockdowns only succeeded in destroying small businesses and harming people, especially children denied school and socialization. All of this could have been better if the government had pushed as hard on therapeutics as on jabs of a leaky vaccine. But therapeutics don’t serve the political purpose of government control. Bastards.

Greg The Class Traitor said...

As for Biden, unnamed Democrats have "concerns... that they’re ending up with the worst of all worlds: a blunt policy that won’t go into effect but that will saddle them politically."

That's what happens when you come up with blatantly unconstitutional "solutions", when SCOTUS isn't completely in the tank for you.

As one "strategist" put it: "it’s just another thing added to the pile of shit that he’s already been dealing with." We're told: "Aides are convinced that the mandates are necessary to finally tamp down the pandemic, which they believe is Biden’s political end-all, be-all."

No, it's one more thing THEY added to the pile of shit. It's amazing how Democrats are just fundamentally unable to deal with the consequences of their own choices.

Supposedly, Biden "wanted to steer clear of the politicization that has hampered much of the Covid-19 response, viewing mandates as a concept that could easily spark blowback." He's the President. Why didn't he get what he wanted? Others prevailed, somehow, and he's stuck with the political problem.

Gosh, you mean Joe Biden isn't in charge of the Biden* Admin? What a concept!

That looks as though the real political problem is that he's not running things
No, the real political problem is that he's a demented sundowned crook surrounded by other crooks are are milking him for everything they can get before the house of cards falls down.

Greg The Class Traitor said...

Howard said...
The dims need to be better at making ADA accomodations for republican snowflakes. Whitmer gets it.

Now do abortion, Howard, and the "female snowflakes" who demand that the Constitution be warped in their favor.

Oh, and are we to take it that you think that everyone who gets an "ADA accomodation" is a snowflake loser? That's rather bigoted of you.

but then, you're a pretty bigoted individual, aren't you. Always attacking people who disagree with you, rather than trying to address their rational points.

Oh, that's right. You understand that their rational points are correct. Thus the personal attacks

wildswan said...

I've been trying to understand my Covid risk of death. To that end, I went through several iterations of the Milwaukee Medical Examiners site, looking at "natural deaths." Here's what I found. The best way to think of the death risk is to divide the people who die into four categories - sick and vaxxed, sick and not vaxxed, not sick and not vaxxed, not sick and vaxxed. If you look at the numbers, you see that those with major illnesses are most likely to die - 133 with a major illness died v. 5 with no other disease. Within this division you can see that the vast majority dying (87) have two major diseases and are not vaccinated. This is the difference vaccination makes. Moreover, no healthy vaccinated person under 95 died in the time frame while 8 healthy, unvaccinated people died. Again, vaccination makes a difference.
These statistics cover all ages and races. If you delve into the statistics online you further observe that the many of the younger people dying are morbidly obese or have cirrhosis or have cancer, though Covid is the cause of death.
And you see that obesity especially means more than age or race in terms of risk.
Now since being obese or having diseases related to being overweight such as diabetes and hypertension is present as a factor in so many Covid deaths at all ages it seems to me that keeping people moving rather than locking them down should be a goal. It seems to me that we need protection against obesity more than anything else.
There are other conclusions to be drawn. But anybody can go online and look at the Medical Examiner records here or in Chicago and see what is their actual risk in their own area. Particularly note the risk to a healthy vaxxed person.
In relation to DeBlasio and Biden and their mandates, I think these stats show that people will continue to die in large numbers from Covid even though they ARE vaccinated if they have major systemic diseases like diabetes and heart disease and the stats show that a much, much smaller number of healthy adults will die if they ARE NOT vaccinated. So is it worth upending government, health care and businesses by mandates?
Anybody can see if these stats hold up in their area by going to their Medical Examiner site online and looking under "Natural Deaths."


There were 140 Covid deaths in the period.
87 people who died had no vax and had two major diseases besides Covid such as diabetes and heart disease
28 people who died were vaxxed and had two major diseases besides Covid such as diabetes and heart disease
13 people who died had no vax and had a major disease besides Covid such as diabetes or heart disease
5 people who died were vaxxed and had a major disease besides Covid such as diabetes and heart disease
8 people who died who had no vax and no other major cause of death but Covid.
1 person died at 95 who was vaxxed and had no other major cause of death but Covid.
https://county.milwaukee.gov/EN/Medical-Examiner/Public-Data
Dec 6, 10am-October 23, 2021 Milwaukee


PS I'm repeating a comment, I hope it's OK. I spent days looking at and compiling these statistics.

Bruce Hayden said...

The problem is that Trump was decisive, while Biden has a hard time deciding what flavor of ice cream to eat today. Trump acted very quickly and decisively to fight the pandemic, and one of the things that he got going was the vaccines. But by the time that it was apparent that they were not going to do the job, he was gone, and FJB had been installed as a figurehead, manipulated by scientific morons, with Poly-Sci, English, Education (“Dr” Jill), etc majors, supported by the public health bureaucracies. The public health bureaucracies do several things well. One is to stay the course, because change brings uncertainty. They had their masking and vaccination mandates, and they were going to drive their tanker or container ship bureaucracies straight ahead full speed, until ordered to veer off from shore, or even, heaven forbid, stop. But there was no Officer on The Deck to order a change of course, or full reverse, etc. Instead, it is as if a bunch of tourists are standing there, on the bridge, realizing that their ship is rushing full speed for shore, and have no idea how to change course or stop in time. You can maybe then analogies the top public health bureaucrats as the enlisted personnel on the bridge who do the actual steering, etc, but only respond to proper orders from the OOD. And their last valid orders were straight ahead full speed, with vaccines and masking - orders a year old, from a different captain (President)and no longer applicable, but still in force.

Drago said...

Howard: "The dims need to be better at making ADA accomodations for republican snowflakes. Whitmer gets it."

If republicans would just align with Howard's ChiCom/islamic supremacist allies, the republicans could get whatever they want from the democraticals and wheneverr they wanted it.

Drago said...

"I’m surprised Whitmer is bowing to reality. She usually seems more the bloody-minded doctrinaire, like De Blasio."

Chris: "Whitmer has discovered that the public in Michigan have completely soured on her and she's trying to salvage the potential for a following term."

Whitmer has finally figured out the democraticals and LLR's on her team in MI won't be enough to overcome the opposition if she doesn't trim her sails.

Naturally, Howard sees this political weakness as a demonstration of some sort of political strength and/or eleventy-ish dimensional political chess.

The good news? If he remains true to form, in about 12 months Howard will be denying Whitmer ever existed at all.

Joe Smith said...

Shit show all the way down...

If a mandate isn't political then nothing is.

The idiot forgot that the courts might have a different opinion...

Michael K said...

Blogger Howard said...

The dims need to be better at making ADA accomodations for republican snowflakes. Whitmer gets it.


Well, after she killed off all those nursing home residents maybe she thought she needed to accommodate some people.

Michael K said...

Blogger Howard said...

The dims need to be better at making ADA accomodations for republican snowflakes. Whitmer gets it.


Well, after she killed off all those nursing home residents maybe she thought she needed to accommodate some people.

Greg The Class Traitor said...

Kevin said...
Joe Biden has managed to f**k up the adoption of a free vaccine that keeps you from getting killed.

Except the death rate from Covid is so low that it really doesn't even do that.

If you catch Covid enough to get tested, your chance of dying from it is less than 1% if you're under 60.

It's less than 10% if you're under 80.

In MN (for which I have the data), less than 14% of the people who died from Covid were under age 65 at death.

So for the people's he's "mandating" it for, it's not a big protector. They face a far bigger threat from getting fat because of the lockdowns.

Iman said...

Howee puts the asshole in Masshole…

Whitmer is toast.

Greg The Class Traitor said...

Bruce Hayden said...
2. These vaccines are not known to be safe. They never underwent full FDA testing. Instead, because of the perceived urgency of their need, full testing was bypassed. And the vaccines were made available under Emergency Use Authorizations. That is still the case today. Indeed, the control group for one of the vaccines was broken for “compassionate” reasons- apparently the idea being that since it doesn’t immediately kill most of its recipients, they couldn’t ethically deprive those who were given the placebo, their benefit.

The people who signed up for the studies for those vaccines were people who desperately wanted a working vaccine shot. Once it was announced that the vaccines "worked", the people running the studies had 2 choices:
1: Tell everyone whether or not they got the placebo, and let the ones who get the placebo get the regular shot
2: Have everyone in their study go out and get the jab.

There was never the slightest chance of those studies being about to continue once the EUA was approved

Greg The Class Traitor said...

wildswan said...
I've been trying to understand my Covid risk of death

What's your age? Are you under 65? if so, your risk is "nonexistent" unless you've got some serious co-morbidities.

Yes, some relatively young and relatively healthy people have died of Covid. Other relatively young and relatively healthy people have died from slipping in the shower. Sh!t happens

But your long post completely ignored the most important factor, age. Making all your musings ratter pointless

Skeptical Voter said...

My progressive friends claim that "nobody politicize the pandemic".

In the late spring of 2020 I suggested to one of my friends that the Wuhan Virus (Kung Flu among the cognoscenti) would probably be no worse than a very bad flu season. The horror and shock at such a heretical suggestion was palpable. My friend remains among the true believers.

Admittedly the numbers coming out of parts of Northern Italy in the early part of 2020 suggested the possibility of something much worse.

But for all the sturm and drang and running around and misclassifying causes of death (Bob Dole recently died with both Stage 4 lung cancer and COVID. Did Senator Dole die of lung cancer or from COVID?) the fact is that total true fatalities from the Wuhan Virus are not much worse than an annual flu season. Yes for geezers like me (turned 78 a month ago) and a bit older it's very bad. But for healthy young folks not so much.

In the meantime those who would politicize the virus (and they are legion) have turned the country upside down and caused vast damage to many groups and portions of the economy.

And Senescent Shuffling Bumbling Biden (and the group around him) have much to answer for.

Achilles said...

A real president would put a 50 million dollar bounty on Xi's head and $1 Million for every communist party official dead or alive for the millions of people the Chinese killed with a bio weapon developed with the loving support and diverted taxpayer dollars of "Dr." Fauci.

Then everyone at the NIH that facilitated funding of Covid would be indicted and charged with about 10-15 crimes each that include treason.

Gospace said...

Greg The Class Traitor said...


The people who signed up for the studies for those vaccines were people who desperately wanted a working vaccine shot. Once it was announced that the vaccines "worked", the people running the studies had 2 choices:
1: Tell everyone whether or not they got the placebo, and let the ones who get the placebo get the regular shot
2: Have everyone in their study go out and get the jab.


Wow. You really don't know much about medical studies- even those for vaccines.

The people who sign up for them get paid. Sometimes a lot, sometimes a little. And most of them are doing it for the money. IF it's for a widespread disease or condition. For various types of cancers and rare diseases you get people begging to be in the study. I sincerely doubt anyone begged to be in the covid vaccine study.

I see targeted Facebook ads every other day it seems to participate in studies, with compensation. Usually for diabetes. Sometimes for cardiac diseases or high blood pressure.

TaeJohnDo said...

I signed up for the AstraZenica trial for a number of reasons, but it was not for the money. The main reason was it was AZ and developed the old fashioned way. I would not have volunteered for a vax developed by RNA manipulation. The next reason was I hoped I got the vax - we were monitored so if anything was amiss, maybe we had a better chance for recovery. The last reason was I hoped if the damn thing worked and it got approved we could get back to normal quicker. So I'm pretty pissed but not at all surprised the Gvt lied. I expected them to lie. ( I did get the vax - I was unblinded when the others got approved because they didn't want people to quit the study.) The other day I was playing pickle ball and one of the other persons there asked if I had three jabs. I told her no, AZ doesn't have an approved booster yet in the US and I'm not sure I'm ready to take it anyway. She said, "Three jabs are required to play here, it is the rule." I told her, "No, not going to happen now." Let's go Brandon, FJB.

Bruce Hayden said...

“A big additional problem is- there are anti-vaxxers, period, out there who don't believe in any vaccination. I'm not talking here about the Amish, AFAIK- zero vaccination rate. I'm talking about highly credentialed mostly liberal Democrats- as represented by Robert Kennedy Jr. All vaccines are unneeded or potentially harmful and besides they cause autism! There is no actual link I see between vaccines and autism, but it's solidly believed by many.”

And a tie to autism is unlikely to ever be found. Why? Because it often presents before vaccinations, and it is likely based on brain structure. Simon Barron Cohen has suggested that autism (actually, AS, including Asperger’s) involves an ultra male brain, that, in turn, requires over specialization during brain development in utero. And, besides, whatever RFK, Jr is panicked about in vaccines isn’t in all of the new gene therapies now considered “vaccines”. Maybe one or two, but not all.

But what you did seem to gloss over is that much of the growing opposition to vaccinations involves people who probably know a lot more about the virus and the vaccines than do the people pushing it. Part of them are a lot of right wing conspiracy theorists (like some of us here). But I have a college friend, who is a lifetime Democrat, who won’t vote for any politician pushing these vaccinations. He would vote for a Republican first. He spent his career in pharmaceuticals, and recognizes BS when he sees it. Howard tells us, essentially, just be sheeple, and take the jabs, as long as your betters tell you to. I have heard that exact same thing from token Republicans too, including one who spent much of his career flying jets. When I asked about the pilots refusing the jab because of the possibility of myocarditis while piloting, he said for them to just “man up”.

Here is the thing, questioning the research and science behind the vaccines is not just crazy talk. While those with baccalaureate degrees have probably the highest compliance with vaccination mandates, those with STEM PhDs have some of the lowest. And that is because they can read the papers, the studies, etc, themselves. It was notable that a number of PhDs from LANL quit, instead of being vaxed. They don’t just do nuclear physics there, but a lot of the brains behind our anti-terrorism fight comes from there. Or did.

For me, when Dr Faucci admitted that the head public health bureaucrats lied about not needing to mask up because they were worried about not having enough masks for public health workers, etc, and after that, I didn’t trust anything any of them said. He admitted that they would lie for the public good, however they saw it at that precise time. Did they then turn around and require masking then, to cover for AntiFA that was masking to evade facial recognition, as they rioted and incited the BLM people to burn down their neighborhoods? The timing is suspicious, but it cannot completely be ruled out. Could they be pushing vaxing so hard, because of all the money involved? Again, it can’t be ruled out. We expect politicians to lie to us, and with the IRS, then FBI and DOJ going rogue, we have come to expect the government bureaucrats to do so to. Why not the public health bureaucrats too? Thanks to Fauci, we know that they do lie for convenience. For me, it was no longer trust, but verify, but instead, verify, then trust.

Greg The Class Traitor said...

Gospace said...
Greg The Class Traitor said...
The people who signed up for the studies for those vaccines were people who desperately wanted a working vaccine shot. Once it was announced that the vaccines "worked", the people running the studies had 2 choices:
1: Tell everyone whether or not they got the placebo, and let the ones who get the placebo get the regular shot
2: Have everyone in their study go out and get the jab.

Wow. You really don't know much about medical studies- even those for vaccines.


1: I've taken part in medical studies where the only reason I did it was to get paid. I've taken part in others because I was interested in the answer
2: I know people who were part of the Covid jab studies. They did not do it for the money, they did it for the same reasons TaeJohnDo did. If they had not been told their status, they most definitely would have both gotten vaxxed the second they could.

And they would have cheerfully been willing to lie in order to get the jabs.

Here's a hint: any time you think I don't know what the F I'm talking about, think again.
Because when I'm clueless about something, either I say nothing, or admit it upfront.

Greg The Class Traitor said...

Bruce Hayden said...
For me, when Dr Faucci admitted that the head public health bureaucrats lied about not needing to mask up because they were worried about not having enough masks for public health workers, etc, and after that, I didn’t trust anything any of them said. He admitted that they would lie for the "public good", however they saw it at that precise time

When Faucci said "don't mask", I knew enough about the (slight, but real) benefits of masking to downgrade whatever came out of his mouth.

When the "1200 public health experts" released their political screed about why it was ok for George Floyd protesters not to mask, but the rest of us had to, and when the rest of the public health community didn't attack them for dishonestly politicizing public health, that's when I stopped listening to anything coming from the public health community (other than for the purpose of finding out what they were saying so I could attack it).

Because what that letter, and the lack of pushback to that letter, said was that there is no one in the public health community who can be trusted to tell the truth when it conflicts with a left wing political agenda.

No one.

I had some doctors who I trusted, who vouched for the "Covid vaccines", so I got the jab as soon as I could.

Then I watched those same people cite the CDC KY Study as valid science showing that the jab protected better than natural immunity.

So now I no longer trust anything they say. Because the only thing that study proves is that nothing from the CDC can be trusted.

So, no booster shots for me. Total utter opposition to any "Covid vaccine mandates". And absolutely no trust for teh CDC or the public health community, on any subject.

Because that's what they've earned, and the only rational response to their behavior