Eventually, he found a doctor who would do the vasectomy, but "Even on the operating table, the doctor tried to discourage him from going ahead." We're told that Zhou and his girlfriend Han Feifei, who live together, "wanted to maintain a 'DINK' — double income, no kids — lifestyle."
Another man "Jiang, 30, who works in customer service at an Internet company, visited six hospitals in his home province of Fujian before finding one more than 1,200 miles away in Chengdu in Sichuan province that would perform a vasectomy." He said: "I felt like I had finally gotten rid of this huge burden.... Those around me who are married and have kids have nothing that makes me envious."
Another man "Jiang, 30, who works in customer service at an Internet company, visited six hospitals in his home province of Fujian before finding one more than 1,200 miles away in Chengdu in Sichuan province that would perform a vasectomy." He said: "I felt like I had finally gotten rid of this huge burden.... Those around me who are married and have kids have nothing that makes me envious."
ADDED: I hadn't seen the term "DINK" in a long time. I have never used it on this blog — which is nearly 18 years old — and it's the kind of thing I tend to blog. I remember it from the 80s. I think that's because the 80s were a time for bragging about how much money you made — actually lording it over others. That went out of style.
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57 comments:
I see reeducation in the future for a lot of people.
Good for him. I like this guy. If couples know they do not want children, the best way to do it, is a vasectomy. Placing the burden on women is the common method. and it often leads to abortion. So again- I like this guy. He's got moxy.
As far as population? The earth is over-populated. China especially. The argument that economists make of the coming collapse of population is laughable... and only fits the narrative based on an economic model.
And as usual a failure of central planning shockingly leads to more central planning.
There is always going to be a group of people that think they are smarter than the universe.
Another thing I have noticed is how blatantly stupid and ignorant doctors have been lately on an anecdotal level.
I'm not going to tell him how to live, but 23 is pretty young to be making that decision.
how long until China is using more adult diapers than baby diapers?
Another bloodline dies out.
I just had a doctor tell me they stopped even bothering with diet research in the 90's because a plant based diet was so clearly the best for human health.
This has led me to question the validity of life style advice from doctors.
The counter to DINK was SITCOM
In the 80's the blogger spouse and I were proudly dink, though we did not make the kind of scratch one could brag over. We owned one car and a small house in Seattle (which, at the time was modestly priced and now is pushing $1MM in value. If only we kept it.) We were planning DINKdom forever. Then life changed and we quickly went to SITCOM (Single income, Two children, Outrageous mortgage.) Soon were were STICOM with 3. Then SIFCOM, then SIFCOM level2, and finally with the advent of work from home we settled into TISCOM. :) As you mature, your priorities change. Things are overrated. Family is worth more.
The men in China may someday change their minds (but it is ok of they don't, not everyone should be a parent.) I wonder what their solution will be if they do. Reversal, sperm donation, adoption...
China killed all their baby girls, and now the command and control creeps cannot understand that couples do not want to partake in that mess.
Leave to to command and Control Biden-Pelosi, oh wait I mean The Chinese communists, to over-correct with more command and control. I predict soon it will be illegal to get a vasectomy or birth control.
"before finding one more than 1,200 miles away in Chengdu in Sichuan province"
He better have a good social score to "allow" him to travel that distance.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Credit_System
Dink is an Asian slur.
23 is pretty young to be making that decision.
I got a vasectomy at 24. I'm 46 now, and have never regretted my decision.
About five years ago, I realized I was getting towards the end of the years in which I should have kids if I wanted to not be an elderly father, and did some serious introspection on whether I wanted to have them. I determined that I had no interest in having kids, and that I would continue my childfree lifestyle.
At 46, even if I wanted to have kids, I'm probably too late - I'd be in my mid-to-late-60s by the time they graduated high school.
China banning vasectomies in an attempt to spur baby-making.
The dark night of The Handmaiden's Tale is always descending on America and yet lands only in China...
CCP forced abortions on tens of millions over decades to prevent more than one child per family. Now they want to increase childbirths. I, for one, would not be surprised to see forced pregnancies coming soon. Hey, feminists of the US, is a forced abortion in China freedom of choice? Would a forced pregnancy be pro-life, anti-choice or what?
As far as population? The earth is over-populated.
By what measure? There are more people today than at any other point in history, while at the same time poverty and hunger are at all time lows. The average standard of living around the globe has increased dramatically in the last forty years. There are a billion cellphones in use in India, and 80% of the population of South Africa own a cellphone.
Don't confuse a DINK with a DILDO.
DILDO = Double Income, Little Dog Only.
I'm pretty sure I've seen DINK in the comments here.
Sounds like Chinese kids aren't buying the official b.s. and good for them.
My son is the last of my line--unless he (35, Never Married) or my little brother (62, NM) get to work soon and astonish the multitudes.
Opa had one son and a spinster daughter, and the son had four sons, and the four had . . . one.
Fun while it lasts.
because a plant based diet was so clearly the best for human health.
My new young doc is still preaching that
"Oh, like potatoes, bread, rice, oatmeal, stuff like that?" Lol
I appreciate this fella being honest: We want to have sex and we don't want kids.
In the West, adults who don't want to, or can't, have children now use it for more virtue signaling: "I can't in good consciences contribute to climate change. I'm doing my part to fight overpopulation." No, you just don't want kids.
As far as population? The earth is over-populated.
Westerners who promote population control never succeed in controlling population, they serve only to reduce the number of Westerners.
"Those around me who are married and have kids have nothing that makes me envious." His choice, but his mistake. I have cousins and siblings, and only I have children and grandchildren. I feel sorry for them, and by now they feel sorry for themselves, and it's too late.
I predict soon it will be illegal to get a vasectomy or birth control
Lab babies from the central planners.
All he needed to do was get drunk and cut his balls off.
Simple, no?
If more Chinese men get vasectomies even though the government heavily discourages it or eventually bans it, I would expect these men, fixed or not, to become part of China’s slave labor force, living in a government run bed and breakfast, I mean concentration camps, and living the dream (well, not exactly - they will be dreaming, but only of their former lives and how “good” they used to have it…).
Socialism/Communism/Progressivism - not about reproductive choice, but about micromanaging its subjects.
I should have said "micromismanaging."
In San Francisco, DINK is another word for 'Gay.'
The men in China may someday change their minds (but it is ok of they don't, not everyone should be a parent.) I wonder what their solution will be if they do. Reversal, sperm donation, adoption...
there's about 20 million more daddy aged men in china then there are mommy aged women
So, screw the man....If the WOMAN changes Her mind; there are other fish in the sea
China controls its baby production with that machine from "Metropolis."
Well yes, as Can of Cheese for Hunter commented, China made illegal the having of daughters for many years. And then limited the number of children a couple could have at two. Neither of these tacks even comes close to replacement rate for the population. And I guess that was their plan. They had so many people (Billions??) that they figured, turn off the spigot and allow the flood to subside on it's own and then we'll open it back up...slowly.
And then the unpredictability of human behavior jumps in. Once allowed to have babies again, the newly employed with money version of the Chinese have found that they like things. They like things so much they don't want to stop their fun and games. Children tend to get in the way of fun and games for the young. Hence, they are choosing their things and free time over having children.
China is screwed. But they are not alone. Much of the globe, with a few exceptions mentioned in a moment, stopped having children at replacement rate a few years ago. The US is now in the sub-replacement rate category as well for the first time ever in our history. All of the Western nations are below replacement rate. Japan, China, and Russia are all growing older, and sit below replacement rate. Hell, even India is seeing a drop in birth rates. So what's going to happen here?
Do you think the shortages of help you see in businesses across the US is going to change and that we'll just get back to full employment again soon? Not going to happen. Our current labor force no longer wants to work. We've got fewer people in the labor market than we have had in years, even though our population is larger. And once this generation (my generation) phases out, and the next gets old, the remainders will find that there may be no one left to make their soy latte or their Waygu tri tip with braised cabbage. Hell, they may find no one is around to to even pick the cabbage, let alone cook it.
So who is having babies? Hispanics coming from Mexico and central America. Fundamentalist religious people: Orthodox Jews, fundamentalist Christians and Mormons, and Muslims. And sub-Sahara Africa. So that will be the future demographic. Basically- look at Brooklyn today, and expand that globally to get a view of the world in 30-40 years.
The Chinese will need to reboot.
I recently heard some disturbing information about the availability of medical treatment in both Omaha and Lincoln. Two credible people have told me that people who are sick with covid and ask for ivermectin and HCQ are being denied the drugs.
Is this happening in other parts of the country?
A 52 year old woman in my building died this week from covid. I talked with her for an hour a month ago.
I've got to think that denying patients these drugs is both negligence and unethical. The NE AG issued an opinion that it was okay to give patients off label drugs. This reinforces what my friends told me.
Fewer kids, more kids ...
Make up your mind, China ...
It should still be possible to extract sperm later if they so desire : will be next frontier >>> gain of function research >>> Chinese hope Fauci is still around to fund it with USA $$$$$$$$
@Aric my dad was 48 when I was born and was an excellent father - his age has never been an issue. But I’ll admit it’s not for everyone.
My own take is that I consider myself so awesome and interesting that the world would be a better place if there were more folks sort of like me, so I’d like to have kids eventually.
There's a wang joke in here somewhere...
"That went out of style."
But not the no kids part. As more women stay single and the birth rate declines further, Dems will cater to their prime voting bloc even more, offering Big Brother as security and celebrating SINKiness or DINKiness as triumphs of cultural sophistication.
A dysfunctional condition borne in a schizophrenic state that progressed from a Great Leap to one-child policy to selective-child policy and now denying the "second choice (i.e. prevention)", too. For an ancient civilization, they have much to reconcile.
"We want to [engage in inherently procreative activity with our reproductive organs], not [have] children.... Having a child or not is our choice to make and our fundamental right. We don’t need anyone to tell us how to live," said Zhou Muyun.
Sounds rather absurd when you state it plainly and accurately.
This story hits different than say if it was a bunch of young male Floridians trying to get snipped. While it seems things are sour everywhere I’d still bet on a brighter future in the States vs China. There’s a real likelihood of those guys’ kids ending up under a boot heel of terror if their fathers aren’t already. That may not factor into their decision but it very much is a factor.
I don’t see Beijing getting an less Borg hive any time soon.
If I had gotten a vasectomy at 23, I would have missed out on the best part of my life.
I didn't realize how much I loved having kids until, in essence, my wife sat me down and said, "I want kids."
It was amazing watching them grow up, and now that they're adults, I enjoy their company and watching them develop. My son in particular has helped make home improvements that will enable us to age in place.
In retrospect, I wish we had more, but I bought into the narrative.
I've known a few DINK couples. Every one of them has consisted of two back stabbing self absorbed people who somehow managed to match up. Horrible people to work with.
I've known a lot of single older people sans children. Some by choice, some because they never found the tight someone. The obese females are usually bitter people. The non-obese wonder why they never settled down. (Hint- playing the field continually looking for someone better is not a winning strategy.) They're usually OK to be around.
The males? Few will admit they're unhappy being forever single. Lots of alcohol in their lifestyle. And often a motorcycle.
I have one aunt who married and they never had children. From my fathers generation- they were the richest. My father and other uncle were alive when her husband died, so we all knew when it happened. My cousins and I found out she died about 6 months later doing an internet search for her name and finding a funeral notice- not even a full obituary, which her husband had. Sad. No one to actually mourn her death, no one to miss her presence. They weren't dinks- she never worked. My wife met them once. We had 2 of our 5 at the time, and I was stationed about 60 miles from them. Their house wasn't child friendly and child proofed. Lots of breakable things at toddler level. We could tell having the children there was stressful for them...
I've known throughout my life a other couples with no children where the wife never worked. Totally different people from DINK couples.
If kids can decide to take puberty blockers at 12 or 13, which lead to sterilization, why not a vasectomy at 16?
I started performing in PHL in 1981. As such, I tried to pay attention to societal trends in order to make jokes about those trends. I don't recall making jokes about DINKs. I DO, however, recall making jokes about "yuppies."
And I further recall that those folks weren't "bragging" so much as they were freely spending money on things because they could. Not sure they were "lording it over others," as much as the "others" were quick to moan about their inability or reluctance to do the same.
Nevertheless, I joined in on some of the yuppie bashing, but just a little, as I saw little comedic potential there.
This seems like a case of projection, most likely aided and abetted in big ways by multiple articles in the Sunday NYT. Many of which sought to detail a "phenomenon" which had "larger societal implications." Also a heapin' helpin' of mind-reading and hallucination when it came to the sincerity and the motivations of the so-called yuppies.
The NYT could have done just as many articles on the negative backlash and the mindset of those who begrudge someone's purchase of a #10 Silver Cross Kensington baby stroller.
Well, this is a step up from the One Child policy. Under that policy, women were forced to have abortions. Some women abandoned or killed their female babies in order to comply with the policy and have a male heir....That was a ghastly way to solve the population problem. They should have given all the male babies vasectomies along with their circumcisions. That would have solved the population problem in a way that was not insulting to feminist sensibilities. Children of the higher ups in the CCP should have been exempt from this procedure and been allowed to propagate freely. Win win for everybody. I'm surprised they didn't think of it.
I have been reading that the world is over-populated since the worlds population was around 4 billion. It's now around 8 billion. If over-population is an existential crisis, why didn't the world end between 1973 and now?
The world is only over-populated by Marxist/Communist/Progressive/Democrats and unreformed Muslims. Just imagine how much better the world would be without them. So I guess I am in favor of population control.
"The argument that economists make of the coming collapse of population is laughable..."
Here's a list of all the countries with below replacement-level fertility.
https://www.pop.org/simple/countries-with-below-replacement-fertility-levels-projected-2020-2025/
The list includes China, Russia, India, Brazil and the United States as well as other smaller places. The US will avoid population collapse because of immigration - legal and illegal. But what can the others do to avoid population collapse? Nothing. The consequence of a population collapse is the collapse of the welfare state which, from this angle, is a sort of Ponzi scheme requiring a growing population to pay growing entitlements. The collapse will be world-wide so you can't just go somewhere else. Now think about welfare state collapse - who will look after DONKs (Double Old No Kids) when the welfare state has collapsed? Some thirty-year-old whose parents need help is going to help you and your partner also? The ad writes itself: "DONKs want young person to look after them because they refused to look after any kids of their own and now they're stuck."
China is hosed
Refusing men the ability to get vasectomies might push them to us condoms. It's not going to get them to have kids
The Chinese Communists created a society where it was grievously expensive to have even one child (in time and effort, not just money for all the extra classes), and where most men and most women worked. So wages stayed down, costs went up (because families still had two wage earners throwing money in the pot).
The CCP is at war with any ida / philosophy that competes with Communism, but essentially no one there believes in Communism.
So there's nothing "bigger than self", nothing outside yourself, and maybe your family. There's no future reward in heaven to earn.
There's just now. The hell with the future, don't have kids, instead enjoy life. Almost none of these people have younger siblings, "family" means "I'm the center of the universe", not "have kids and rejoice in their growth".
Reality and societies are path dependent. The CCP led China down a bad path. Xi has decided to respond to this by making sure he has all power, and not caring about what happens after he dies.
It's no surprise that most of the rest of China is going to follow him down that path
Heck, come to America, not only get a vasectomy at the mall, you can get your dick and balls removed at hospital.No questions asked.
Greg the Class Traitor --
Corrected it for you below:
America is hosed
Refusing men the ability to get vasectomies might push them to use condoms. It's not going to get them to have kids
American progressives created a society where it was grievously expensive to have even one child (in time and effort, not just money for all the extra classes and a single car seat), and where most men and most women worked. So wages stayed down, costs went up (because families still had two wage earners throwing money in the pot).
American elites are at war with any idea / philosophy that competes with a secular humanism centered on individual actualization, and diminishing numbers actually still hold to traditional Christianity.
So there's nothing "bigger than self", nothing outside yourself, and maybe your family. There's no future reward in heaven to earn.
There's just now. The hell with the future, don't have kids, instead enjoy life. Almost none of these people have younger siblings, "family" means "I'm the center of the universe", not "have kids and rejoice in their growth".
Reality and societies are path dependent. Elite progressives have led America down a bad path, and our current leaders have decided to respond to this by making sure they have all power and spend all the money, not caring about future generations.
It's no surprise that a chunk of America is refusing to follow them down that path.
God may or may not be dead, but Confucius has definitely bitten the dust.
Dave Begley said...
"I recently heard some disturbing information about the availability of medical treatment in both Omaha and Lincoln. Two credible people have told me that people who are sick with covid and ask for ivermectin and HCQ are being denied the drugs.
Is this happening in other parts of the country?
A 52 year old woman in my building died this week from covid. I talked with her for an hour a month ago.
I've got to think that denying patients these drugs is both negligence and unethical. The NE AG issued an opinion that it was okay to give patients off label drugs. This reinforces what my friends told me."
12/10/21, 11:03 AM
It's happening at the hospital level, due in no small part to state pharmacy boards shutting down most therapeutics other than remdesevir. Many state governors issued executive orders early on, pretty much outlawing the use of HCQ and ivermectin, based on the claim that a run on the supplies would harm people with chronic illnesses like lupus and rheumatoid arthritis. Partly true, at least at the beginning of the lockdowns, but I wonder if it would not have been possible to ramp up production (as we did for masks and the mRNA treatments) - and in any case, shouldn't an acute disease take precedence over chronic ailments?
Back to the topic at hand - this is similar to the micromismanagement that is happening in China, and which has been brought so quickly to our nation. Except in this case I think the restriction on medications is more of a political ploy to make the case for mail-in voting in the short term, and restrictions on travel and commerce in the long term. The rights of the individual must be subordinated to the power of the collective.
In China you have to bribe doctors for any kind of treatment, 100% of the time. It's like tipping waiters here. So, guys wanting vasectomies will just have to bribe more. Since everyone in China is corrupt every doctor will certainly have his price.
Here's a brutal prediction of reality to come: At some point in the likely not-so-distant future, it's going to become a mandatory thing for you to have kids. Or, you're going to get cut off from social benefits accruing from things like Social Security, which is, as I keep having to point out to people, "pay-as-you-go". If there ain't nobody coming along after you to pay the benefits out, guess what? You're effectively a freeloader, and society isn't going to go for that--Especially under socialistic regimes.
I'd wager that it won't be long before China's "You can have as many kids as you like..." policies morph over into "You're gonna have kids... And, if you don't, we're gonna penalize you...". Other countries won't be very far behind, once the realities of pay-as-you-go socialism become clear.
The issue that these societies have been actively discouraging kids, with regards to jobs, housing, and family formation for the young won't be addressed. They'll just apply the coercion, expecting results. Follow-on effects will remain to be seen, but I'd wager they're not going to be policies that actually produce results.
Another thing that will become brutally apparent is that "stealing" population by wealthy Western countries won't be appreciated by the smaller countries giving those populations up--Expect to see some really weird social side-effects and policies.
I've been telling people this crap for years, but nobody listens--The real coming issues aren't going to be related to over-population, but the collapse in population in many different countries. It's already started, but the lying liars who lie about these things are doing their level best to obfuscate the issues. Entire regions of Russia and Eastern Europe are experiencing depopulation and a return to a state of nature: That's the future, folks. Get used to it, because ain't nobody going to go to the trouble of raising kids who has a state-supported pension plan. It'll be "party, party, party... Oops... Who's paying for my retirement? Who's gonna buy my house, to finance my twilight years in a Third-World country resort...?". Answer? Ain't nobody gonna be there to do that, in all too many cases.
The first miracle by Jesus was the Wedding at Cannae of Galilee. The Church has openness to new life as a prerequisite for a Church wedding. Refusal to participate in creating new life can be grounds for granting a Petition of Invalidity, or an annulment of the marriage. The Church teaches this is procreation, that when conception occurs, The Creator of the Universe stops what he is doing to infuse that creation with a soul. I'm certain that being a parent made me a better person. This will not end well.
Not only do the Chinese have a surplus of males, but many of the females are well educated. Well educated females demand and expect males educated as well or better, so many of these females will not be satisfied with the selection and choose single. Whether or not they also choose spinsterhood remains to be seen.
If every person was given 2 square yards, not much, but something, the 7 billion people in the world would fit into an average sized Texas county. The problem is not over population but population distribution and density. Those people could be fed as well. Did I mention? This will not end well.
Men and women are different. Life accomplishments for men are different. Men might savor playing on a championship team. Most women will savor their children and grandchildren more than any career accomplishment.
In Nazi Germany, politically trusted, but genetically suspect people were encouraged to adopt "Lebensborn" children to help increase the German birth rather than reproduce themselves. I can see the equally fascistic and racialist Chinese government creating a similar program. Particularly to improve the quality of their pool of military aged men.
Surgeons should discourage childless 23-year-olds from getting a vasectomy. In the US they should and generally do have serious talks even with older men who have children. People's minds and circumstances change, and they should articulate why they are unlikely to regret such an almost-permanent decision.
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