From "April Ashley, trans pioneer, dies at 86" (London Times).
Who was Captain Arthur Cameron Corbett? His claim to fame is merely that he got that marriage annulled. Other than that, he was some British aristocrat — 3rd Baron Rowallan. He met Ashley in 1960, the year of her transitioning, and just before the public outing, and married her in 1963. He had to know what he was doing, and when the marriage broke down, there was alimony to avoid paying.
British mumbo-jumbo from Corbett's Wikipedia page: "Dexter a salmon Proper holding in its mouth a jewelled ring Or sinister a seal Proper."
That's Corbett with his first wife. Not Ashley.
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46 comments:
Peter O’Toole? Omar Sharif? I don’t believe it. Polish counts? Yes.
trans/neo-gender conversion therapy
Not a fan of heraldry, huh?
It’s a lot like sigils. (Actually)
Reminds me of the rumors about Lady Colin Campbell (or Jamie Lee Curtis, whose husband has a British title) being born intersex.
But what business is that of ours?
(I also seem to remember Tony Curtis becoming a Hungarian count or knight, but can't find a reference to that online.)
"That's Corbett with his first wife. Not Ashley."
Well, even the first one could "pass" as one in transition. The current Jeopardy leader "Amy" Schneider is another example.
That British mumbo-jumbo is the arcane language of Heraldry, where dexter is right, sinister is left, and Or is gold.
"Transgender" is a fake, made-up term assigned to describe a fake, made-up concept.
Stop using it.
"Divorde" tag?
Makeup is a girl's best friend. Have you seen eyebrows lately? Back to the 60s!
Althouse: tag should be "divorce".
Who was Captain Arthur Cameron Corbett?
“The family money came from Brown & Polson's Corn flour.”There is a picture of Arthur and April there too.
I realize this comment may not be very generous, but I feel that, if trans people truly want to be accepted as belonging to their "new" sex, they need to do a much better job of presenting as that sex than Schneider is doing. If you cannot pull off the look, the voice, etc., such that strangers will look at you and automatically classify you as the "new" sex, then what is the point?
On a related point, I don't get why "trans" itself is an accepted category. Again, the idea is for a man to become a woman, or vice versa. It's not for a man or a woman to "transition" into an ambiguous middle space between the two called "trans." Nobody longs to be "trans" as an end result, do they? It seems to me that the first generation of transsexuals had much better grasp of this concept than the current crop.
One would have thought that all these famous lovers would have noticed that his lady parts were more like a wound than normal lady parts and thought "hmmm... That's odd."
John LGBTQBNY Henry
John Henry speaking from experience.
was corbett that blind or drunk, then again english aristocrats are fabled for their delusions,
@Conrad,
"Nobody longs to be "trans" as an end result, do they? It seems to me that the first generation of transsexuals had much better grasp of this concept than the current crop."
That's an excellent point. When I was younger there was no such word as "trans." There was, however, an understanding that some people had "sex-change operations." There was no middle ground. The person went from one sex to another. Obviously there may have been a lot more to it than that - hormones, etc. It may have been a process rather than a procedure. But there was certainly no category for people stuck in some kind of limbo in between the sexes.
The first case I ever became aware of was Wendy Carlos, formerly Walter, the musician who played Bach on the Moog synthesizer. I remember my teenage friends and I joking awkwardly about her. But we accepted that she was a her.
Transsexual is a term that the oligarchs and the people that own the media have coined to tear apart the social fabric of the world. Everyone knows there are 2 sexes. The overwhelming majority of people everywhere accept it. Even people with conditions revolving around hermaphroditic traits eventually end up one or the other through surgery or hormonal treatment.
Right now the oligarchs are using things like "tran-sexual" to impose beliefs on populations as a conquering hoard of barbarians impose servitude.
They are forcing people to accept things they can see with their eyes are untrue.
And people like Ann are so desperate to feel superior to other people they go along with it. She so disdains Trump supporters that she jumps in with this kind of silliness with both feet.
This is how rulers have treated conquered populations for the entire span of history. It generally ends badly for everyone involved.
John henry said...
One would have thought that all these famous lovers would have noticed that his lady parts were more like a wound than normal lady parts and thought "hmmm... That's odd."
John LGBTQBNY Henry
That isn't how any of this works.
One of the reasons this insanity has any traction at all is because people who are born "normal" have no empathy or sympathy for people who are not.
Just as the trans movement is treating you like a conquered population you all have treated people who had real and serious realities they had no control over as conquered people. Epithets and euphemisms are always the first weapon of choice.
It is understandable for an animal population to shun deviations from the norm.
But eventually humanity will grow into it's gifts and stop acting like animals.
Christine Jorgensen died in my hospital of prostate cancer. It's not nice to try to fool mother nature.
One would have thought that all these famous lovers would have noticed that his lady parts were more like a wound than normal lady parts and thought "hmmm... That's odd."
It wasn't a proper salmon, but when all was said and done, it was still a helluva fish.
It’s not being trans that’s the issue. It’s the use of force by law to make everyone agree about trans. Isn’t it? Let’s face it, these famous examples aren’t dealing w/make up. They are more up Caitlyn’s alley. But, my neighbor’s kid who died his hair blue and painted his nails? Maybe kinkier in the undergarment department… that one must refer to as her or be fined? In certain areas? Is that trans? Or pseudopsyco?
Pseudo/psycho…
In hindsight- my comment is a little harsh at the end.
It’s a messed up world and people are confused and mentally stressed. The pseudo fits- not the other, to that great extent.
Left Bank's link is interesting. That Captain Corbett "acquitted himself fairly well in the war" is delicious, and other details delight.
Reminds me of Archie Bunker's great line about the British system: They got what they call a Fagocracy.
Something about the Jeopardy winner seemed hinky to me. I wonder if xe is a Pisces, working for scale.
So was s/he better at being a woman than other women? Or is plowing through a long list of paramours just a man's take on womanhood?
So, it proves once again that anything a woman can do, a man can do better.
I have no objection to people deciding to live as someone of the other sex. I object to people forcing me to agree that this is a normal thing to do and should be encouraged. I further object to irreversible medical treatments being given to people under the age of consent and particularly before puberty. I think gender dysphoria is being wildly over diagnosed - particularly among teenagers who are normally confused about how to live their lives.
I also object to forcing people to pay for cosmetic surgical interventions with tax money. I might even contribute to a foundation to assist people who want to surgically transition provided it was only for adults following included extensive counseling.
Sex: male and female. Gender: masculine and feminine, respectively, sex-correlated physical and mental attributes. Trans- refers to a state or process of divergence from normal [distribution]. Normalize, tolerate, or reject.
Transvestites are actually trans-social. Clothing, presentation, is, in part, a social construct that follows a compelling social and human cause to normalize a favorable juxtaposition of the sexes.
"I have no objection to people deciding to live as someone of the other sex. I object to people forcing me to agree that this is a normal thing to do and should be encouraged."
I agree entirely.
Irreversible Damage: The Transgender Craze Seducing Our Daughters
by Abigail Shrier
https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/52076947-irreversible-damage
The amount of coercion within the Transgender movement is reflective of the need to force society to accept this gender pathology as normal.
I don't give a crap about anyone "transitioning": if a person starts out with XY, he is still an XY male even after a partial plumbing change. (can't do the ovaries, the cervix, the uterus)
Ditto the XX people who "transition" to partial male plumbing. They are still biological females.
It's mental illness, all the way down. Such people seek to force us to embrace their denial of Nature.
Don't let them do it.
Narr said...
Something about the Jeopardy winner seemed hinky to me. I wonder if xe is a Pisces, working for scale.
************************
How well did xe do in the "Anal Bum Cover" category?
effinayright said...
I don't give a crap about anyone "transitioning": if a person starts out with XY, he is still an XY male even after a partial plumbing change. (can't do the ovaries, the cervix, the uterus)
Ditto the XX people who "transition" to partial male plumbing. They are still biological females.
It's mental illness, all the way down. Such people seek to force us to embrace their denial of Nature.
Don't let them do it.
The only reason the trans movement has any traction at all is because so many people like this want to keep the pendulum on their side and refuse to understand how these things will always go back and forth.
I understand you cling to the need to call people different from you things. It is a natural animal response to attack those not of the tribe.
But it would be nice if you would at least acknowledge the consequences of your actions.
The Captain was a transvestite, according to the article cited by the commenter Left Bank of the Charles. I guessed that from the pic of him provided by Ann.
But I wondered why would a transvestite, aka cross dresser or trans wanna be, want to be married to a trans woman? I guess initially they would be kindred spirits and maybe even share a closet without shame, but the fact that Ashley had the courage to make the sex change official and permanent while the Captain held onto social conventions and his social status would have created tremendous conflict between the two. But then of course had the Captain also become a women they would have been lesbians and that's even worse possibly, especially back then. Not only did the Captain choose to maintain social conventions, his legal annulment of the marriage set back the cause of trans people in the courts. So he really wasn't such a fine fellow considering what he did to one of his own tribe, so to speak.
However I don't believe the cause of personal authenticity is worth the destruction of our language and society. I think being trans is more of a private matter; it is about someone's subjective reality. People deserve our compassion and acceptance but for me we've gone bonkers if we attempt to deny that sex and biology are real. You can change the outward appearance of a person relatively easily but not their biology. There are transwomen out there (I've seen on Youtube) who are willing to admit publically they are still in male bodies.
The right way to look at the moral question here is do you want the law to be such that Corbett — who seems to have known the relevant facts about the person he married — gets an annulment and avoids paying alimony?
The statutory law was subsequently changed, because a lot of people think what happened was wrong.
It's a question of the role of government, not what someone "really" is at the cellular level or whatever. The state offered marriage as a legal status to people, and these 2 opted in. This was back when there was no same-sex marriage, which is the only reason why Ashley's sex mattered (in the case).
I find it curious that she was reputed to have had many lovers. I don't know much about reconstructive surgery; I take it one can fashion an artificial labia/vagina, but personally, I'd notice the absence of a clitoris. It surprises me that she transitioned in 1960. I wouldn't have thought it available in that era.
I'm well past the point of dating ever again.
But one of the complaints that I have read is that trans people MTF but also FTM complain about dating. They expect normal men and women to expect them to accept them as normal women and men.
I remember an article on this a year or two back about a "girl" who complained that the boys in her school didn't want to date her just because she still had a dick. It was soooooo unfair.
And if you really want to be depressed, read Donald/Diedre McCluskey's story about her life as a trans mtf. His family has not been at all supportive and he is basically dead to them.
One of his complaints was dating. He hooked up a couple of times with dating services claiming to be a woman. When the guys found out he was not. Or at least not really, they never called for a second date.
I'm fine with these people running around pretending to be women. Or men. I don't, generally, mind acting as if they are.
But they are not, really. I find it annoying that they want me to not just pretend that they are women (or men) but to really believe that they are.
John LGBTQBNY Henry
Achilles said, cryptically:
But it would be nice if you would at least acknowledge the consequences of your actions.
**************
MY actions? What actions? And how about addressing the case I am making?
Althouse.....
It's a question of the role of government, not what someone "really" is at the cellular level or whatever.
**********
Yeah, "whatever".
Whatever.
Darkisland said...
I remember an article on this a year or two back about a "girl" who complained that the boys in her school didn't want to date her just because she still had a dick. It was soooooo unfair.
an honest dialog between trans person and zer doctor
dr: "So, you want to change your sex, do you? how come?"
patient: "Yes doc; i feel unattractive as this sex! I WANT to be attractive!!"
dr: "okay, your insurance cleared, so we're good to go."
patient: "hurray! I Can't WAIT to be attractive!!!"
dr: "oh! you're going to be FAR LESS attractive to ANYONE in your new sex. You'll be gross and ugly"
patient: "then WHY are we DOING this??!?!"
dr: "like i said, your insurance cleared"
Who knew the Brit aristocrats were so open-minded?
'The right way to look at the moral question here is do you want the law to be such that Corbett — who seems to have known the relevant facts about the person he married — gets an annulment and avoids paying alimony?'
It's not like he was a Kennedy or anything...
"Her lovers are said to have included the INXS singer Michael Hutchence"
He was a...seeker.
Live, baby, live
Now that the day is over
I gotta new sensation
In perfect moments
Impossible to refuse
Sleep, baby, sleep
Now that the night is over
And the sun comes
Like a god into our room
All perfect light and promises
Gotta hold on you
A new sensation, a new sensation
Right now gonna take you over
A new sensation, a new sensation
Dream, baby, dream
Of all that's come and going
And you will find out in the end
There really is
There really is no difference
"Christine Jorgensen died in my hospital of prostate cancer." She died of bladder and lung cancer. Whether those stemmed from the trans surgery...
effinayright said...
Achilles said, cryptically:
But it would be nice if you would at least acknowledge the consequences of your actions.
**************
MY actions? What actions? And how about addressing the case I am making?
There are people that are born different than us. They have little to no control over who they are attracted to or how their physiology matures.
Then they spend their entire lives being told by people like you they are mentally ill and treated like freaks. They are written out of society and excluded from all of the structures that make up the social fabric.
People like you pull the pendulum of hatred one way.
Then your opponents take power and they retaliate and they pull it the other way.
And you get mad. And you retaliate. All you people ever do is yank the pendulum one way or the other.
There is no reason to exclude anyone from these social structures except basic tribal instincts. There was no reason to shame this woman and destroy their marriage. They were happy and not hurting anyone.
A pauper claiming to be a prince is a fraud.
Same with trannies.
There are people that are born different than us. They have little to no control over who they are attracted to or how their physiology matures.
*************
You can stop right there. You have not proven that assertion in the least.
Myself, I think male gays are ""born" that way". Females, I'm not so sure. Trans? I don't think so, but even if so they CANNOT be allowed to invade the biological spaces reserved for females, whether in bathrooms, sports or entertainment. They don't "fit" there any more than I would in a production of "Porgy and Bess."
As for how I treat such people, I've known a few gay guys in my time, including a couple of closeted college friends. (We "kinda" knew, but it didn't matter... No problem.) I always enjoyed "Modern Family" for showing that gays can be idiots like everyone else, but in their own ways.
I am not hostile toward them. It is only when they want ME to treat them differently than everyone else (pronouns and all that other bullshit) that I back off.
It is YOU who want trans not to be treated like everyone else, but to deny the genetic differences between a trans-woman and a biological one, manifest in their size, strength, speed and stamina.
That is utterly absurd, something that requires me to deny physical reality itself. And requires girl swimmers to "race" against men who pretend (or even truly think) they are women.
Lines have to be drawn, lest reality itself buckles under to insanity and delusion.
Today Althouse reports some nut who wanted to scale White House walls and shoot Biden. Should we have let him, since he claims sincerely to believe that is his life's mission?
Don't tell us that destroying women's sports is a small price to pay to provide "acceptance" of trans people. Those who "compete" don't want acceptance: they wan cheap and unearned GLORY.
SNORT
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