From "Rittenhouse Trial Day 7: Kyle Survives Abusive Cross-Examination" by Andrew Branca (Legal Insurrection)(video of this portion of the trial at the link).
November 11, 2021
"Then we hit the 'My Cousin Vinny' point in the cross. For those of you who are sadly unfamiliar with the best law-themed movie ever produced..."
"... two young men find themselves mistaken for murderers. When told by police that they are suspected of having killed someone, one of the men bursts out, in question form, 'I killed someone?' This would later be read in court as if it were a statement of confession, rather than an outburst of bewilderment. In this real-life trial, it turns out that someone had accused Kyle to his face, on the street, of having pointed a gun at him. Knowing that he’d never done that, Kyle responded sarcastically, 'Yeah, I pointed a gun at you,' and immediately turned around and walked away from a situation that could have been escalated. Now, in court, Binder presented this sarcastic remark as if it were a statement of fact, and characterized Kyle’s denial of the statement being made seriously as a lie."
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216 comments:
1 – 200 of 216 Newer› Newest»The interesting parts of the trial to me are the discussions between ADA Binger and the Judge.
My sense is that Binger is an unethical slime bucket who thinks he can get away with anything because he has full immunity. I wonder if the jury sees him for who he is.
Just like Adam Schitt this week again brought up Trump’s sarcastic “Russia if you’re listening send a copy of Hillary’s email” as if that joke proves collusion. FFS.
He's guilty - but deserves probation.
"Does Binger's case hold water?"
"No! it does not hold water!"
If memory serves there was an episode of Rumpole of the Bailey where the main suspect was at the crime scene and heard saying “I killed her”.
A mistrial with prejudice would solve the problem of jury intimidation. I wonder if the judge has the courage?
"Now, in court, Binder presented this sarcastic remark as if it were a statement of fact, and characterized Kyle’s denial of the statement being made seriously as a lie."
Binder is a perfect democratical.
"Now, in court, Binder presented this sarcastic remark as if it were a statement of fact, and characterized Kyle’s denial of the statement being made seriously as a lie."
Something that has always offended me about how the justice system works; I expect defense attorneys be a bit underhanded and twist things for their client's benefit, but I've always thought the State, in the form of the prosecutor, should be ethically bound to seek the correct outcome. Justice, if you will. But it doesn't work that way. Prosecutors lie and deceive with the best of them and I find that outrageous.
Anthony Jeselnik
I saw a really hot blonde in a bar and asked her what do you do?
I'm a brain surgeon, she said.
I hope I'm not being sexist or anything, but I was impressed. Most women can't do sarcasm.
Democrats are just terrible people.
The Crack Emcee said...
He's guilty - but deserves probation.
Guilty of what? Self Defense.
Shooting a wife beater, commie, and child molester after they attacked him in between bouts of burning and looting other people's private property is not a crime.
It is a public service.
The video is right there for anyone who wants to watch and not say stupid shit.
Original Mike said...Something that has always offended me about how the justice system works; I expect defense attorneys be a bit underhanded and twist things for their client's benefit, but I've always thought the State, in the form of the prosecutor, should be ethically bound to seek the correct outcome.
Fully agree. It is outrageous that prosecutors are promoted based on convictions, not correct outcomes. Not only do they have all the same incentives to lie, cheat, and steal as the defense attorneys, but they also have a lot more institutional protection for their shenanigans.
The best use of a “My Cousin Vinny” defense goes to NFL legendary head coach Bill Belichick. When he said he was “no Mona Lisa Vito,” in terms of ball knowledge compared to Marisa Tomei's character's mechanical knowledge. “I'm embarrassed to talk about the amount of time I've put into this, relative to the challenge in front of us,” was a load of you know what. (I won’t use the words I want to use because there might be Joe Biden supporters present.) If there’s is someone who knows football better than the rest of the planet, his name is Bill Belichick. Of course the deflection worked because nobody expected it. Once the coach put everybody’s mind there, the press conference along with the controversy was pretty much over.
From Presumed Innocent:
Sandy Stern : We notice that Mr. Molto is listed both as a prosecutor and as a potential witness for the prosecution. We object to that.
Judge Larren Lyttle : I take it you're speaking of where Mr. Sabich responds to Mr. Molto's accusation of murder by saying, "You're right"?
Nico Della Guardia : [quoting from notes] "Yeah. You're right." Your Honor, the man admitted the crime.
Judge Larren Lyttle : Oh, come on, Mr. Della Guardia, really. You tell a man he's engaged in wrongdoing, and he says, "Yeah, you're right." Now, everybody knows that's facetious, and we're all familiar with that. Shoot, in my neighborhood, had Mr. Sabich come from those parts, he would have said, "Your mama." But in Mr. Sabich's part of town, I would think they would say, "Yeah, you're right." And what they mean is, "You are wrong." Just to be polite.
Nico Della Guardia : Your Honor, isn't that a question for the jury?
Judge Larren Lyttle : No, on the contrary, Mr. Della Guardia, it is first a question for the court. Now, if you wish to use Mr. Sabich's statement and risk my ruling it out of order, then I will bar Mr. Molto from prosecuting, but if he is the prosecutor, then Mr. Sabich's statement may not be offered. I'll see you in court in three weeks. Ernestine, show in the next bunch.
the best law-themed movie ever produced..."
Seriously, WHY should I read beyond this nonsense?
"but I've always thought the State, in the form of the prosecutor, should be ethically bound to seek the correct outcome. Justice, if you will"
That reminded me,
Kay: Do you know how naïve you sound, Michael? Presidents and senators don’t have men killed.
Michael: Oh. Who’s being naïve, Kay?
The prosecution seems to be second string at best.
Why is the evidence of Rittenhouse drinking with the Proud Boys after one of his court appearances while wearing a Free as F*ck t-shirt and making the white supremacist OK sign being kept out of the trial? That’s an admission against interest that goes to motive. The commentariat here would go apeshit if such evidence weren’t admitted in prosecuting an Antifa thug.
When the judge says “if he were on trial for using exquisitely bad judgment” and the prosecuting attorney points out that he is, and the judge’s lame reply is that he wasn’t talking about that explicitly bad judgment, he’s only talking about the other exquisitely bad judgement, you can see that the judge realizes that he has been cornered and wants to shoot his way out.
The usual rule for fighting should apply, winner goes to jail, loser goes to the hospital (in this case, the morgue). The provocation of running around the chaotic streets of Kenosha and into the midnight hours waving his AR-15 with his finger next to the trigger negates the self-defense claim. We’ll see what this jury does, but it should vote for whatever the equivalent of manslaughter is in Wisconsin.
Eats shoots and leaves...
Which brings up the issue of why is the procesutor using dirty tricks and lies to convict. After all, they aren't supposed to "win at any cost", they're just supposed to do a reasonable, ethical, presentation of the "People's" case.
Is the prosecution deliberately trying to fail while giving the appearance of trying hard?
Branco has been doing a heck of a job covering this. A daily must read
Mark said...the best law-themed movie ever produced..."
Seriously, WHY should I read beyond this nonsense?
It's not a very controversial statement. My Cousin Vinny is on every list, not just for entertainment value, but for getting courtroom procedure right. Each of those individually is rare. Put them together and you've really got something.
The Crack Emcee: "He's guilty - but deserves probation."
No, he is not guilty.
Do you have any other ridiculous and demonstrably false assertions you'd care to have refuted?
Also worth noting, even though it was a movie about innocent kids charged with murder, the cops, the prosecutor, the small town judge were all good guys. They were honest and professional. The kids were in dock not because of some nefarious plot, but because of some really bad luck. A damning amount of circumstantial evidence pointed at them.
That the prosecutor continued his prosecution after seeing the video evidence is indefensible, and any rational person should conclude that this prosecution is for political, not judicial, purposes.
This trial will provide a Not Guilty verdict on the basis of self defense, or end as a mistrial with prejudice. Expect the Left to attack, or rather, further and further again and again to continue their attacks, on the concept and legal standing of self defense in this country on the absolutely false basis that Rittenhouse killed three people and thus got away with murder. As they do still with Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin. As they do with police shootings regularly. Never let a crisis go to waste!
Question for the Althouse lefties: The Rittenhouse judge is wearing an American flag tie today on Veterans day, should the Judge be disbarred?
Actually, I already know your answer to that question is "yes", so I'll go to the next sequential question: Is the Judge being controlled by Putin?
I agree with Mr. Branca on this, but I note he was very certain that the defense had scored major points in the Chauvin trial. I also thought the defense made a few good points in that trial, but that wasn't important. The only thing that matters (short of a mistrial ruling or directed verdict) is what the jury thinks. We have no way of knowing that.
Heard on line earlier today: From now on, whenever a prosecutor is failing in his cross-examination and asking inane questions for far too long, it will be known as "Bingering the witness".
I liked the names assigned to the prosecution team: Fatlock and LittleBinger.
Chris Darden breathes easier today knowing that his achievement of worst question in a high profile case has been overtaken.
Binger is the type of lawyer giving rise to the phrase:
“99 percent of the lawyers give the rest of us a bad name”
The prosecution seems to be second string at best.
Probably well over 90% of the people charged by the DA make plea deals. Most of the rest will have crap attorneys and they are probably guilty. You usually don't need to be a brilliant litigator to be a prosecutor. ADA = political hack.
Left Bank of the Charles: "Why is the evidence of Rittenhouse drinking with the Proud Boys after one of his court appearances while wearing a Free as F*ck t-shirt and making the white supremacist OK sign being kept out of the trial?"
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
Behold, the stupidity of Left Bank of the Charles....again. As always. Like clockwork. As if it were rote.
Left Bank, what is the relevance of that after the fact event for this trial?
Watching Left Bank struggle to come up with a pretzel-y twisted logic answer to such a basic question will be fun!
Go ahead Left Bank! We can't wait to see what that fertile "mind" of yours will conjure up! After all, you are still a big time russia collusion/Clinton dossier moron so conjuring up something shouldn't be too difficult for you. It will be ludicrous, of course, but still fun!
And now we have the leader of BLM in New York threatening the Mayor Elect Adams with Riots, fire and bloodshed if he reinstates the anti-crime units. BLM wants unsafe streets with gangs, guns, knivings, rapes and pushing people in the subways. WHERE is the DOJ on this?? Isn't this a DOMESTIC TERRORIST THREAT?? If a white person said this, would they be put in the Progressive gulag?? What we have here is Progressives who hate law and order and people like Kyle trying to patrol the streets because we don't have the police presence anymore because the left defunded them and tells them to stand down when there are riots. God Help Us all. https://nypost.com/2021/11/11/blm-leader-hawk-newsome-threatens-riots-after-sit-down-with-eric-adams/
Gahrie said...
The prosecution seems to be second string at best.
They aren't necessarily incompetent.
They are trying to push a political prosecution. The law and the evidence is clearly against them.
But democrats want to destroy their political opponents and they will use whatever dishonesty and sliminess they have to to win.
They do not care about justice.
"Why is the evidence of Rittenhouse drinking with the Proud Boys after one of his court appearances while wearing a Free as F*ck t-shirt and making the white supremacist OK sign being kept out of the trial? That’s an admission against interest that goes to motive. "
For the same reason that the evidence regarding the victims' child molestation, recent release from the loony bin, violated restraining order, prior records for violent crimes, participation in and membership in "revolutionary" organizations that pledge to create violence, illegal possession of a handgun, etc. are also not permitted.
The rules are the rules. It is totally irrelevant who Rittenhouse hung out with after his release on bond. It IS relevant who Rittenhouse hung out with on Aug 25th, and so that is admitted.
It's too bad Leftie in particular and lefties in general are so butthurt about this trial. They could approach it as honestly interested in justice, as they always proclaim loudly to anyone foolish enough to pay attention to them. But, Leftie/lefties are not interested in justice.
As for the "racist OK sign". That ship has sailed, you're just stupidly repeating a 4chan hoax. If you really think it's racist, then you need to deal with the fact that Biden flashed it last week, Obama flashed it a couple weeks ago.
Left Bank of the Charles said...
Why is the evidence of Rittenhouse drinking with the Proud Boys after one of his court appearances while wearing a Free as F*ck t-shirt and making the white supremacist OK sign being kept out of the trial? That’s an admission against interest that goes to motive. The commentariat here would go apeshit if such evidence weren’t admitted in prosecuting an Antifa thug.
No we wouldn't.
We support the rule of law and an impartial justice system.
You are projecting your own lack of morals, integrity, and desire for outcome based justice on your political opponents.
Because you are a hypocritical piece of shit.
The video is easily available. Kyle was attacked by 4 people and he defended himself as is his right.
He shot a commie, a wife beater, and a child molester. Notice how the extensive criminal history of all the violent looting scumbags were not included in the trial. Because they were not germane.
The only things allowed in the trial are what people did. And what Kyle did was a public service.
Rittenhouse is, indeed, a yute.
I went to a CLE class many years ago where the topic was how to try a case to an unfriendly jury. The teacher showed clips from two movies: Gregory Peck’s closing argument in “To Kill A Mockingbird,” and the cross-examination of the old lady in ”My Cousin Vinnie.” He then asked the group to vote on which was the better lawyer. Most voted for Mockingbird. After all, most of us had been inspired to go to law school by that movie. But, our instructor pointed out, Peck’s client was convicted. He had told the jury they had to reject everything they ever believed about whites and blacks in order to acquit his client. It made for a great social justice speech but it was crappy lawyering. The Vinnie lawyer didn’t tell the jury that they were wrong to hate and distrust Yankees. He didn’t accuse the state’s witnesses of lying. He just impeached the visual acuity of the main prosecution witness. That’s why he was the better lawyer. And it was a great movie from start to finish.
Everyone on my twitter feed who has been crowing all week about how awful the prosecution has been has gone silent today. Not a good sign for Rittenhouse.
Left Bank of the Charles said...
The usual rule for fighting should apply, winner goes to jail, loser goes to the hospital (in this case, the morgue). The provocation of running around the chaotic streets of Kenosha and into the midnight hours waving his AR-15 with his finger next to the trigger negates the self-defense claim. We’ll see what this jury does, but it should vote for whatever the equivalent of manslaughter is in Wisconsin.
This is how stupid you have to be to be a democrat.
Not only is this statement stupid it is evil.
These people need to be shipped to Afghanistan where their version of "law" is currently practiced and left there.
"Why is the evidence of Rittenhouse drinking with the Proud Boys after one of his court appearances while wearing a Free as F*ck t-shirt and making the white supremacist OK sign being kept out of the trial?"
Our wannabe overlords want to take away the right to self defense during the riots they create and to throw people in jail for "speech crimes" and association. Both activities protected by the now doomed First Amendment. You should ask yourself when these kinds of maximalist views of state power might be turned on you.
"I'm Jerry Callo" is an inside joke around here.
Left Bank of the Charles said...Why is the evidence of Rittenhouse drinking with the Proud Boys after one of his court appearances while wearing a Free as F*ck t-shirt and making the white supremacist OK sign being kept out of the trial?
Evidence of what? It's being kept out of the trial (assuming it exists at all) because it's prejudicial value (high) outweighs its probative value (very nearly nonexistent).
If that is true does the judge have the responsibility to step in and stop it? One would think the judge should shutdown a prosecutor who is deliberately trying to deceive the jury?
"Presumed Innocent" has a similar scene in it where Harrison Ford's character gives a sarcastic response to a question from the DA in an interview that the DA later tries to introduce as evidence of a confession.
"the best law-themed movie ever produced..."
I would have gone with "The Mighty Ducks."
Wendybar 10:03.
To ask is to answer.
Merrick's DOJ is as corrupt as the crime boss who installed him.
..as corrupt as the liars and on-the-take crooks who run the FBI.
Left Bank,
Your analogy is ridiculous. Let's suppose you are in a bar minding your own business and a guy twice your size and half your age comes up to you and starts taunting you and telling you he is going to take you outside and kick your ass because you are sitting on his favorite stool. You give him stool, but he doesn't stop and proceeds to start pushing you around. You leave the bar and he follows you outside and proceeds to start beating you. You end the beating by grabbing a large rock and hitting him in the head killing him.
My question- should you be convicted of manslaughter and sent to prison?
I see a commenter above has already beat me to the Presumed Innocent scene.
"The usual rule for fighting should apply, winner goes to jail, loser goes to the hospital "
Of course if it were a politically-favored-by-Democrats person in the docks, it would be called "mutual combat" and the suspect would go free, as just happened a month ago, as I recall.
As we speak the corrupt prosecutor in the trial is crying and whining about the defense showing how the idiot Little Binger came up with the prosecution's time frames and images.
Because, for example, Little Binger took a time sequence of 1/10 of one second and drug it out for an hour, as if detailed thought processes and decision making can occur in a situation where convicted felon thugs are physically attacking a 17 year old who then had the temerity to defend himself against these criminals.
Little Binger desperately wants to steer clear of.....clarity. Because like all democraticals/lefties, clarity is something they fear and will avoid at all costs.
And who is Marisa Tomei in this scenario?
The prosecution seemed to be pushing the idea that Kyle lost his right to defend himself because he walked down a public street on which protesters/rioters were located - seems to be trying to establish the riot area as a "no-go" zone where you surrender all rights if you go there.
Achilles said...
Guilty of what?
Being on the street with a gun when he should've been at home.
Blogger Patrick said...
I agree with Mr. Branca on this, but I note he was very certain that the defense had scored major points in the Chauvin trial. I also thought the defense made a few good points in that trial, but that wasn't important.
I agree. That jury was intimidated and this one is too. There should have been a change of venue since the thugs have photographed the jurors and know where they live. This is becoming a common tactic of the left.
The school board president in Scottsdale AZ had a dossier with photos of the kids and "financial information" on parents that complained about masks and CRT. Where did he get that and how many other school boards have such dossiers?
We all know that the Proud Boys is an FBI operation, BTW. Or don't you keep up with the stuff the FBI get's caught doing.
Why is the Proud Boys guy face blanked out in the picture? Is he the FBI informant who is an integral part of the group, (the fact that there is one is now a matter of public record), posing here as one more psych op? Or is there some reason why a member of the Proud Boys face can't be shown that I am not aware of?
Binger is literally falsely accusing the defense of doing those things that Binger actually has been doing.
Again, what a perfect democratical.
Why is the evidence of Rittenhouse drinking with the Proud Boys after one of his court appearances while wearing a Free as F*ck t-shirt and making the white supremacist OK sign being kept out of the trial? That’s an admission against interest that goes to motive.
Specifically what is the "admission" contained in that video?
My view of prosecutors is definitely colored by sitting on a jury and seeing out present DA (he was an ADA then) try a case. He was dreadful. There was no evidence for what he was trying to show, and I left wondering (after voting -- like everyone else -- to acquit) why these charges were ever even brought.
I find myself thinking similar things when I read transcripts from the Rittenhouse trial.
We have an election coming up in WI. Maybe I'll run for Governor solely on the platform of pardoning Rittenhouse after his conviction.
Rittenhouse should not have been there with a gun.
Right? that's all.
That's all? right?
But the rioters - why they are protected and sacred! Angry mob can burn, loot, destroy property (private and state-owned - you name it) - because their righteous anger will not be denied. Even if it's a pack of white leftists who do not care about blacks or black businesses or black neighborhoods.
White left antifa thugs merely use the excuse to riot as a means to an end to quench their pent up rage.
No one ever says "hey - those angry white guys who chased Rittenhouse and threatened him - they should not have done that."
"Binger’s argument is that the video analysis came in too late - even though there was no way to analyze it until the prosecution turned it over!"
Kafka is a how-to to these people.
I watched live on Fox News as the DA question Rittenhouse on what he said to various other rioters on the street that evening.
I thought to myself "Why does Rittenhouse have some moral obligation to tell the truth to some rando rioter on the street who asks him a question? I'm sure his answers were what he thought would de-escalate the encounter and get him out of there without [further] incident".
Why would statements made clearly under duress in the middle of a violent situation be expected to be truthful or form a coherent narrative?
This guy nails the prosecution's angle.
"If you follow the prosecution’s case against Kyle Rittenhouse, the only logical end is the assertion that self-defense is almost never an option and visiting the scene of a riot is only okay if you are there to burn property.
There are other facets to lead prosecutor Thomas Binger’s arguments — that Rittenhouse, 18, was in illegal possession of a gun, that he showed up in Kenosha, Wis., that night of violent rioting because he was pursuing danger, and that he could have easily done things differently. But the bulk of Binger’s questioning of Rittenhouse on Wednesday relied on the assumption that unless a person has physically touched you, and unless you were at the scene for reasons not in line with others present, there is no reason to protect yourself with force that may prove deadly."
https://thefederalist.com/2021/11/11/kyle-rittenhouse-prosecutors-case-rioting-good-self-defense-bad/
In a similar tactic, I'm surprised the prosecution didn't show this clip to demonstrate how Rittenhouse fired indiscriminately into a crowd.
“Left Bank of the Charles said...Why is the evidence of Rittenhouse drinking with the Proud Boys after one of his court appearances while wearing a Free as F*ck t-shirt and making the white supremacist OK sign being kept out of the trial?”
“Evidence of what? It's being kept out of the trial (assuming it exists at all) because it's prejudicial value (high) outweighs its probative value (very nearly nonexistent).”
And if anything, if the prosecution even breathes a word about those claims, they get their mistrial, but the judge has said, “no dosie overs”, meaning that it would be with prejudice. Yesterday, I thought that they were headed in that direction, knowing that they were losing, going out with a bang was better for their cause than losing on a jury verdict of acquittal.
They need a conviction to dissuade others from resisting the mob with the force of the Second Amendment.
Left Bank of the Charles said...
The provocation of running around the chaotic streets of Kenosha and into the midnight hours waving his AR-15 with his finger next to the trigger negates the self-defense claim.
The term provocation in reference to negating self defense, does not simply mean something I don't like.
Ask yourself (Scratch that. Ask a reasonable person): if you saw someone running around with a gun, would you feel compelled to threaten to kill them, to chase them, to throw things at them, and, once within range, to lunge at them?
"Something that has always offended me about how the justice system works"
For me, it's witnesses having to swear to tell the whole truth and then being prohibited from doing just that in order to bolster an opinion.
Crack Emcee: "Being on the street with a gun when he should've been at home."
LOL
And which statute is that again? Take your time looking it up......
The Crack Emcee said...
Achilles said...
Guilty of what?
Being on the street with a gun when he should've been at home.
He was there on the third night of burning and looting.
Some people asked him to help them protect their property from a bunch of shitheads.
The State should have been there with National Guard and thrown all of the marxists in jail. But they let the marxists destroy people's livelihoods and property.
We all should have been there with Kyle and we should deport anyone that wants to go out and steal other people's stuff for "justice."
Kyle was fighting true injustice.
Skippy Tisdale: "They need a conviction to dissuade others from resisting the mob with the force of the Second Amendment."
Correct.
All leftist authoritarians arm their street thugs to carry out attacks against the citizenry and domestic political opponents while disarming the populace from fighting back against these leftist brownshirts.
Venezuela is a perfect example of this as their Cuban commie trained motorcycle riding thugs were given actual military weaponry and show up at all opposition rallies to shoot em up.
That's what antifa/BLM is for the lefties.
Recall that on July 2, 2008, obama gave a speech in Colorado in which he called for the creation of what he called a "Civilian National Security Force" which he also said would be "just as powerful, just as strong, just as well funded as the US Military."
That was obama's plan.
The republican wins in 2010 put a stop to that so our lefties just adjusted their plan and used existing street thugs and lefty-funded mobs to accomplish the same result.
They get to doxx and harass and burn and kill and if anyone thinks they can stand up to them, then the DOJ/FBI/local Soros "prosecutors" and democraticals get involved to empower the thugs and target the normals to send a message.
Binger is a Wolverine; not a Badger.
My Cousin Vinny is on every list, not just for entertainment value, but for getting courtroom procedure right.
"My Cousin Vinny" is beloved by lawyers the same way "Slap Shot" is beloved by hockey fans. (I know plenty of both.)
@Achilles said...
They [the prosecution] aren't necessarily incompetent.
They are trying to push a political prosecution. The law and the evidence is clearly against them.
But democrats want to destroy their political opponents and they will use whatever dishonesty and sliminess they have to to win.
They do not care about justice.
Dereck Chauvin was sentenced to 22.5 years for murdering druggie George Floyd when evidence of a Floyd overdose was pushed aside by the prosecution because "America" wanted the cop blamed when strangulation in front of witnesses wasn't really well established.
In the Rittenhouse case, the kid readily admitted to telling lies and suffered convenient memory losses in the attempted killings of four separate people - of which he succeeded twice.
Andrew Branca believed Chauvin innocent but now wants to get a real killer off.
Crack has managed to split the baby.
"Being on the street with a gun when he should've been at home."
Much like the men who attacked him.
Today's video and evidence is going even worse for the Althouse lefty liars Left Bank, gadfly and Howard.
No wonder the lefties are threatening the jurors, having their radical DA's violating 5th amendment rights, threatening to launch additional riots, etc.
The Crack Emcee said...
Guilty of what?
Being on the street with a gun when he should've been at home.
Nazi said what?
Binger’s case “holds water” as well as Binger held his “mud” the past several days.
Resting Binger-face.
Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...
"Rittenhouse should not have been there with a gun,...But the rioters - why they are protected and sacred!"
The two-wrongs-make-a-right argument.
I expect better from conservatives.
YoungHegelian said...
Why would statements made clearly under duress in the middle of a violent situation be expected to be truthful or form a coherent narrative?
The DA seems intent on proving that Rittenhouse was a blood-thirsty maniac who just really, really wanted to shoot someone.
The first thing the cops said to Kyle, when he encountered them, were "Go Home!"
The corrupt left label the "proud boys" as neo-fascist.
All while they do not label the actual neo-fascists - ANTIFA THUGS - as neo-fascist.
So strange. Hernandez the social commentator testified that he does on the ground reporting, particularly riots, and particularly the 2020 riots.
Which is odd. The Althouse lefties swear up and down those riots never happened at all.
I'm surprised the lefty moron DA Binger did not immediately leap to his feet to scream "Liar!!" (a la Carole Kane in "A Princess Bride") given that these riots never happened...according to our "antifa is just a myth" lefties.
Well.
I guess you learn something new every day.
Defending property and self-defense. Not cool.
Rioting, looting, burning, harassing, injuring police + ... all cool if you're a Neo-facist White left antifa. Approved by the FBI, the democrat party, and the Merrick.
More Hernandez testimoy: "Antifa and rioters were going head to head with police in front of the courthouse........."
I wonder if these antifa types were merely ghosts or mirages or apparitions of some sort, given the supposed "fact" that they don't exist.
If Rittenhouse is found “Not Guilty” or if a mistrial is declare with prejudice, I fully expect that the left (BLM, Antifa, or just plain hard core lefties), will do their damndest to to continue to abuse Kyle Rittenhouse, doxx him, and make his life a living hell as a free man. If the jury does the right thing and finds Rittenhouse not guilty on the charges, I expect those same actors on the left to abuse and doxx those jurors as well. If the jurors names are to be kept from the public, I expect someone to try to get the info on those jurors. And I expect these same liberal actors to abuse and doxx the witnesses for the defense and those prosecution witnesses whose testimony helped the defense instead of the state (like the guy who said on the witness stand that the DA wanted him to lie when the DA’s office interviewed him and testified to that).
btw- Don't you ever flash the OK sign. Now labeled "WHITE SUPREMACIST" by the collective left.
who sez so.
But If Biden or any democrat ever flash an OK sign - it's all good. They didn't get the memo.
Drago -
Yes - Antifa thuggery is all a figment of our imaginations. Even when it's on film.
"Being on the street with a gun when he should've been at home."
"That's the law, west of the Pecos... err, I mean when the rioters, arsonists, and looters have declared themselves in control."
At least Judge Roy Bean officially held the title. Notice how many facts have to be left out to make the case against Rittenhouse. Omission is one of the strongest tools of rhetoric.
A more complete description of the "honest", "peaceful", "not a threat to anyone" Rosenbaum, the helpless "victim" of that meany Rittenhouse:
“Rosenbaum, 36, was a pitiable figure who never should have been on the streets. He was a convicted pedophile with bipolar disorder who had just been released that day from a psychiatric ward in a Milwaukee hospital after a suicide attempt. He appeared deeply unwell, carrying a heavy chain in one hand, swearing, using the N-word and looking for trouble. He already had twice threatened to kill Rittenhouse and his group.”
So misunderstood. Perhaps Rosenbaum wasn't breastfed as a baby.
Just add that lack of breastfeeding for Rosenbaum to the next list of Articles for Trump impeachment.
Left Bank said:
"The provocation of running around the chaotic streets of Kenosha and into the midnight hours waving his AR-15 with his finger next to the trigger negates the self-defense claim..."
****************
You certainly know shit about anything:
* "Running around" is not a crime, even with a weapon.
* The riot happened at night, so that's when Rittenhouse was present. Why aren't you asking whether the RIOTERS were engaging in violence, which they were?
* Rittenhouse wasn't "waving"/pointing his weapon AT anyone, until he was being attacked.
* it is standard **safe practice** to keep one's finger next to the trigger when holding a firearm. It's something instilled in every soldier, every policeman who carries one. It isn't surprising that a dull tool like you has never noticed that.
* where is the logic in saying one shouldn't carry a weapon when a situation turns chaotic? Should Rittenhouse have put down his AR-15 once things went from bad to worse?
Have you not noticed that R's not been charged with unlawfully carrying a weapon?
* Finally: it's obvious to everyone here that you know jack shite about how charges are framed, trials are conducted, and what the Rules of Evidence are. Just fer instance,
your moronic claim that Rittenhouse allegedly having drinks with Proud Boys is...what? a crime? "Evidence" that his self-defense claim is negated?
SNORT
gadfly said...
@Achilles said...
They [the prosecution] aren't necessarily incompetent.
They are trying to push a political prosecution. The law and the evidence is clearly against them.
But democrats want to destroy their political opponents and they will use whatever dishonesty and sliminess they have to to win.
They do not care about justice.
Dereck Chauvin was sentenced to 22.5 years for murdering druggie George Floyd when evidence of a Floyd overdose was pushed aside by the prosecution because "America" wanted the cop blamed when strangulation in front of witnesses wasn't really well established.
In the Rittenhouse case, the kid readily admitted to telling lies and suffered convenient memory losses in the attempted killings of four separate people - of which he succeeded twice.
Andrew Branca believed Chauvin innocent but now wants to get a real killer off.
Please expand on these lies told by Kyle.
The more you post here the dumber you make democrats and Biden supporters look.
Let criminals do what they want.
That's the collective left's argument.
I don't expect improvement on this issue from the corrupt lying liars who lie collective left.
Shouldn't this case have gone to a grand jury? Any Wisconsin law experts here?
Lakeview shooting: Licensed carrier kills would-be catalytic converter thief in shootout, CPD says
Chicago police said 25-year-old suspect died at hospital. Both thieves were armed and pointed their gun at the citizen.
Within the past two weeks the Cook County (Chicago) States Attorney denied charges against all participants in two different shoot outs on the public way. The SA described these incident as "Mutual Combat".
Kyle should not have been charged. Beside all involved were white the whole incident should be of no interest to BLM or it followers.
Rule: Do not ever use sarcasm when it concerns guns.
The Crack Emcee said...
The first thing the cops said to Kyle, when he encountered them, were "Go Home!"
Is that a law? Which one?
Because this law you are citing clearly states do exactly what the police say in every case and don't resist correct?
What exactly were people rioting about in Kenosha Crack?
What was BLM trying to tell us the night they were burning and looting?
Drago said...
I'm surprised the lefty moron DA Binger did not immediately leap to his feet to scream "Liar!!" (a la Carole Kane in "A Princess Bride") given that these riots never happened...according to our "antifa is just a myth" lefties.
He was saving up for his "The judge love the defense more than he does me!" argument that he just whined an hour ago.
The Crack Emcee said...
Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...
"Rittenhouse should not have been there with a gun,...But the rioters - why they are protected and sacred!"
The two-wrongs-make-a-right argument.
I expect better from conservatives.
*********************
The rioters were committing crimes.
Rittenhouse being there, legally with a weapon, was NOT a crime.
So there's no equivalence.
We've long ago given up expecting better from you.
Once upon a time, when I was young and stupid, the ADA said in her closing arguements,"DRUNK! DRUNK! DRUNK! DRUNK! DRUNK!" I have often wondered whether she was upset about her hopeless case, or throwing the case in the interests of justice.
I was surprised that the judge didn't, after the prosecution rested, find that as a matter of law that the prosecution had failed to prove its case. Maybe that is due to the self-defense angle. Or maybe the judge is feeling the heat as well.
The provocation of running around the chaotic streets of Kenosha and into the midnight hours waving his AR-15 with his finger next to the trigger negates the self-defense claim.
Shorter Left Bank: That he was able to defend himself negates his claim of self-defense!
Can Of Cheese for Hunter: "Drago -
Yes - Antifa thuggery is all a figment of our imaginations. Even when it's on film."
Au contraire.
Antifa thuggery is all a figment of our imaginations. Especially when it's on film.
Little Binger, perfect avatar of the left, is apparently completely and utterly flummoxed that people often take multiple camera angles of the same events.
Oh how the lefties are upset that so much actual evidence is available to put the lie to their pathetic political imagineering of events.
Achilles:
“And what Kyle did was a public service.”
And there it is, again.
I accept that in a court of law we can’t attribute to Kyle the intentions of the out-for-blood armchair militia who want to shoot BLM rioters, but that would prove a first degree murder charge. The CVS tape is evidence that Kyle harbored that intent, but I see why it’s admission as evidence in the prosecution case is problematic under the prior acts rule. But when Kyle is on the witness standing saying he only came to Kenosha that night to help people, why can’t the prosecution ask him if he has ever seen people he thought were robbing or looting a store and said that he wished he had his AR-15 to shoot them?
The statements Kyle made by donning the Free as F*ck t-shirt the Proud Boys gave him and making the white supremacist symbol clearly relate to the charges against him. Such statements are usually admissible against a defendant, and certainly for impeachment of a witness. What’s the prejudice, except that it hurts his self-defense case? The prosecutor was willing to leave the Proud Boys out of it and just enter the picture in evidence. The judge had to craft an “exquisitely bad judgement” exception to the admissions against interest rule to keep it out.
Yancey, I take your point but it’s a different case if your beef with the other guy in the bar has been ongoing for several hours and you get into the fight with him at closing time. That’s the better analogy to the situation here than yours.
Rittenhouse should not have been there with a gun
It's been proven some of the rioters, even one that attacked him, had guns.
At least one person fired their weapon before he fired his first shot.
Why should he be so disadvantaged?
A lot of these arguments that the pro riot and burn side is making would be a lot more convincing if charges for bringing an illegal gun to the riot and brandishing it, and pointing it at Rittenhouse had been brought. If everybody found doing something illegal were prosecuted, but as it stands, this is just about using the power of the state against one's political enemies. It's just craven lust for power.
Not to mention, all of the violent rioters shot were white. I guess the left is racist and assumed that rioters and arsonists must be black.
Howard and his lefty pals are crying over these lefty felon thugs almost as much as they cried over the death of Soleimani.
What made you think the people were rioting?
Uh, the riots.
Why were you running so fast over to the fire?
Uh, because there was a fire.
Ladies and Gentlemen, the Left.
Judgment at Nuremburg
Anatomy of a Murder
The Caine Mutiny
Sergeant Rutledge
Witness for the Prosecution
QB VII
One of my favorite moments was when Little Binger attempted to put Hernandez on trial for potentially having known political conservative contacts, which, naturally, means his video is rendered moot because everyone knows that conservative cooties effects pixels captured digitally.
It could only have been worse if Hernandez had worn viking horns while recording which, as we also now know, represents a coup attempt which stops democracy.
Is pushing a flaming dumpster into an island of gas pumps provocation? Asking for a friend.
Perhaps Rosenbaum wasn't breastfed as a baby.
I read his wretched life story somewhere. Mentally ill parent and foster care abuse before being jailed as an abuser at 18.
I'm sorry, but if they re-define self-defense, then the 2nd Amendment is moot.
Ralph L.: "Kyle should not have been charged. Beside all involved were white the whole incident should be of no interest to BLM or it followers."
You would be amazed, perhaps you've already seen it, that many on the left, the "reality based community", are just now, yesterday and today, realizing that Rittenhouse engaged only white dudes.
Almost the entirety of the "stupid left", which, on a venn diagram, completely overlaps the "entire left", was unaware Rittenhouse never shot anyone who was black.
These Howard-like morons literally did not know that until yesterday and today....and many of them STILL think Rittenhouse was gunning down black people willy nilly.
Ralph L: "I read his wretched life story somewhere. Mentally ill parent and foster care abuse before being jailed as an abuser at 18."
Well, there you go. Trump is guilty. Again.
Ask any lefty.
Ralph L: "I read his wretched life story somewhere. Mentally ill parent and foster care abuse before being jailed as an abuser at 18."
Well, there you go. Trump is guilty. Again.
Ask any lefty.
madAsHell: "I'm sorry, but if they re-define self-defense, then the 2nd Amendment is moot."
Not to worry. The left/NeverTrumpers are busy working to render both self-defense and the 2nd Amendment moot simultaneously.
"if he were on trial for using exquisitely bad judgment"
If using exquisitely bad judgment were a crime Left Bank would have gotten the Chair for the vote he cast in 2016. And they would have dug him up and fried his rotten corpse for voting while impaired in 2020.
"Yancey, I take your point but it’s a different case if your beef with the other guy in the bar has been ongoing for several hours and you get into the fight with him at closing time. That’s the better analogy to the situation here than yours."
Then you obviously don't take my point. Rittenhouse was never the aggressor that night- indeed, he walked away from every encounter with Rosenbaum before Rosenbaum tried to ambush him. I get the feeling that you have never once watched any of the video from that night. He definitely was only running around with the rifle in his hands when got separated from his group realized the protesters behind him were stalking him. He only started running when they did. If you want to focus my analogy, then the guy you had the beef with leaves the bar and ambushes you when you leave at closing time. You are under no obligation to leave before he does, and your right to self-defense isn't undercut one bit by not doing so.
Labelling Joe Don Rosenbaum a child molester is an understatement.
If our legal system worked properly Rosenbaum would be alive and well in a dungeon somewhere.
On the other hand, Rosenbaum richly deserved his fate.
"The statements Kyle made by donning the Free as F*ck t-shirt the Proud Boys gave him and making the white supremacist symbol clearly relate to the charges against him"
These are all capital offenses to the left, which is why the rioters where justified in trying to kill Rittenhouse.
Left Bank of the Charles said...
Achilles:
“And what Kyle did was a public service.”
And there it is, again.
I accept that in a court of law we can’t attribute to Kyle the intentions of the out-for-blood armchair militia who want to shoot BLM rioters, but that would prove a first degree murder charge. The CVS tape is evidence that Kyle harbored that intent, but I see why it’s admission as evidence in the prosecution case is problematic under the prior acts rule. But when Kyle is on the witness standing saying he only came to Kenosha that night to help people, why can’t the prosecution ask him if he has ever seen people he thought were robbing or looting a store and said that he wished he had his AR-15 to shoot them?
Rosenbaum was a convicted pedophile. Just attempted suicide the day before. Was on a variety of medications. Threatened to kill Kyle twice earlier in the night. Threatened to kill numerous other people on video. Screamed "Shoot me "N*****" at pretty much everyone.
Grosskreutz was illegally carrying a concealed weapon and pointed it at Kyle's head in an attempt to murder him. He was caught lying to the court and police about this repeatedly. It is too bad he survived.
The people that were looting CVS because of the breakdown in law and order were shitty people who would turn this country into Mexico if they got their way.
All of the thugs and looters that attacked Kyle that night were shitty people with extended criminal records and were in the process of trying to tear down our country. They should all be shipped off to some 3rd world shit hole where everyone else is like them.
You cannot have a free country with people who will steal your stuff at any opportunity.
The statements Kyle made by donning the Free as F*ck t-shirt the Proud Boys gave him and making the white supremacist symbol clearly relate to the charges against him. Such statements are usually admissible against a defendant, and certainly for impeachment of a witness. What’s the prejudice, except that it hurts his self-defense case? The prosecutor was willing to leave the Proud Boys out of it and just enter the picture in evidence. The judge had to craft an “exquisitely bad judgement” exception to the admissions against interest rule to keep it out.
What was the white supremacist symbol? Was it OK? What a piece of shit you are.
Free as Fuck? What is wrong with that? I can see why a maoist shithead like you would be triggered by someone declaring they were "free as fuck."
There are too many enemies of freedom in this country.
I think it would be fantastic if some take-no-shit motherfunkels who happen to be black - were standing there with big guns - telling the White Left antifa thugs to - "go home."
A girl can dream.
Little Binger is back to prove Hernandez is a horrible deplorable and should be ignored, along with his videos, and be placed in Jail awaiting trial until such time that some democratical believes he should be released....which would be never.
Drago -
The most annoying thing about Instapundit's comment section are the little trolls who run around correcting posts - sort of the way you just did. Almost as annoying as the grammar police.
Not sure why the word "Even" needs a correction to "Especially".
@Mark 9x:
Thanks for the legal movie list. I've only seen 3 of the 6. My favorite is Anatomy of a Murder—probably because I am from the Upper Peninsula of Michigan where the story takes place and where the author of the book is from.
Leftie leftbank said something about...
the Proud Boys
So, NOW you're saying that Kyle was working with the FBI??
That's a weird Assumption
"Is pushing a flaming dumpster into an island of gas pumps provocation?"
Good question.
the law, according to Biden-Merrick: If you are righteously angry about an incident involving the police, even before the facts and context are fully known about said incident, you are allowed to set dumpsters on fire and roll them over to the gas pumps.
Besides - since Antifa do not exist - that burning dumpster is a figment of your imagination.
Can Of Cheese for Hunter: "Drago -
The most annoying thing about Instapundit's comment section are the little trolls who run around correcting posts - sort of the way you just did. Almost as annoying as the grammar police.
Not sure why the word "Even" needs a correction to "Especially"."
Its not a correction nor a grammar police incident. It's a piggy-back (building on your comment) leading to an extended thought/independent thought, which is that I'm emphasizing that the lefties seem to especially enjoy the fact that they know they are lying, we know they are lying, they know we know they are lying, but they are still lying. With apologies to Solzhenitsyn for the paraphrase.
Rosenbaum, 36, was a pitiable figure who never should have been on the streets. He was a convicted pedophile with bipolar disorder who had just been released that day from a psychiatric ward in a Milwaukee hospital after a suicide attempt.
I'm surprised that Rittenhouse has not been accused of Antisemtism. Not only was Rosenbaum Jewish, so was another of his "victims". Anyway, Rosenbaum reminds me of that old saying from the old Western Movies:
"Some men deserve Killing".
Rosenbaum's shtik was to win the trust of the mothers, and then get entrusted with looking after the young sons. Then came the Anal Rape.
Achilles said...
The Crack Emcee said...
The first thing the cops said to Kyle, when he encountered them, were "Go Home!"
Is ["Go Home!"] a law?
No, it';s common sense, which many seem to lack nowadays.
What exactly were people rioting about in Kenosha Crack?
I've told Ann & Meade Wisconsin is racist to blacks for years.
Achilles - Epic.
Thank you.
The facts get in the way of the left's narrative.
"free as fuck" = white supremacist! because sez so. Fuck the left. Yes - and they have determined that the OK sign is the same, expect for when they do it.
I suggest we all get the WHITE LEFT'S WOKE HANDBOOK on "WORDS, phrases, and hand gestures" that are off-limits or considered HATE. that way we live like Soviets.
effinayright said...
The rioters were committing crimes.
That doesn't mean a kid with gun should go outside to handle it.
BTW - I never bought the right's CRT criticisms, coming as they did right after Trump lost.
Any port in a storm for you guys.
andrew branca
"LOL of the Day for #KyleRittenhouse trial:
ADA Binger telling a witness that he's not a real journalist because real journalists don't put their opinions into their news stories.
Hahahahahahahahaha! This, in one of the most news-propagandized trials I've ever seen."
I never even read the 1619 Project, and don't know anyone else who has.
THAT'S how influential it is to most blacks.
According to Howard, its a well known historical fact that dumpsters were used extensively by the Confederacy and thus, deserve any fires set within them.
rcocean: "I'm surprised that Rittenhouse has not been accused of Antisemtism. Not only was Rosenbaum Jewish, so was another of his "victims". Anyway, Rosenbaum reminds me of that old saying from the old Western Movies:"
Rosenbaum was also running around using the "N" word, so naturally, he's a Hero of the Soviet Uni......er......our lefties.
Nothing seems to get white conservatives excited like a good old-fashioned moral panic over whatever black people do, whether it's rock and roll or anything else
The Crack Emcee: "I never even read the 1619 Project, and don't know anyone else who has.
THAT'S how influential it is to most blacks."
It's not so much how "influential" it is to blacks, it has been extremely influential for white liberals who occupy all the top positions in media, academia, Schools of Education, etc.
You will not be shocked to hear that most racial-based "stuff" is designed to help liberal whites and not actually black Americans.
The Crack Emcee: "That doesn't mean a kid with gun should go outside to handle it."
What law forbids it when the police make it clear they will not be enforcing any laws?
He definitely was only running around with the rifle in his hands when got separated from his group realized the protesters behind him were stalking him. He only started running when they did.
Indeed, the video look a lot like a pack of lions separating one antelope from the herd and moving in for the kill.
The kid was amazing with his gun and amazing on the stand—kid come through when his life is on the line, incredibly impressive. The testimony from yesterday is worth watching for kyle’s performance, for the sleaziness of binger and to watch the seemingly mild-mannered judge tear into binger.
Careful what you wish for, leftists. You just might get it.
I just checked my copy of FORBIDDEN WORDS, PHRASES AND HAND GESTURES According to the White Left:
OK symbol = White Supremacist.
Obama OK symbol = all cool.
"Free as Fuck" = white supremacist
"Fuck White Joe Biden" = White Supremacist
If you hand gesture the middle finger towards a leftist, you are a white supremacist.
If a leftist flips you off - it's all cool. after all, he's flipping off a white supremacist.
"Dissent is the highest form of patriotism" = if you're not a leftist, that's white supremacist.
Sitting at a bar with Proud Boys who may or may not be FBI agents - and you're enjoying a beer with friends and your mom? White supremacist.... with a dash of "How dare you!"
CRT is like white antifa - a giant figment of the imagination.
Just ignore the parents who reported the crazy shit their young children mentioned, after they got home from school. White shame and marxist porn. Just what every parent wants injected into math and science. No wonder the entire first world kicks our ass in education. Our public school system is a joke.
The left sure are touchy about it. Exhibit A: White pudge-boi Brian Stelter(D) of CNN
Left Bank of the Charles said...
The statements Kyle made by donning the Free as F*ck t-shirt the Proud Boys gave him and making the white supremacist symbol clearly relate to the charges against him.
You do realize that the photo with the shirt and the Proud Boys was taken 4 months after the riot/shootings, don't you? If you want the legal system to be that capricious, ok; but I don't think you're going to enjoy the results.
Binger is a disgrace to my profession. His references to Kyle's silence before taking the witness stand was knowing/intentional, and IMO should result in disciplinary action.
The statements Kyle made by donning the Free as F*ck t-shirt the Proud Boys gave him and making the white supremacist symbol clearly relate to the charges against him.
More evidence that, to the political left, nothing that happens to any member of the right is undeserved. The abyss between the two political parties seems too deep to cross. By "political party" of the left, I mean the crazies in the Democrats. Remember, Democrat Congressman John Dingle was the author of the term "Jack Booted Thugs" in referring to the BATF. Dingle was corrupt, like all politicians, but he was not crazy like so much of the Democrats today, including you.
"White Supremacy" I define as doing homework, thinking logically and obeying the law.
The idea that the OK sign is somehow a white supremacist symbol is one of the dumbest things from our dumb age.
You guys know your critisizm of gadfly is nothing more than criticism of the left media right. Gadfly has no knowledge of the facts of the case, nor does he want any, and is simply regurgitating what he has heard from his normal sources. How anyone couldn't have enough natural intellectual curiosity to wander outside of his bubble occasionally is beyond me, but there you have it. People like that exist somehow. A true innocent in some regards.
The thing that flabbergasts me is the gun charge. It's frivolous. It's highly prejudicial to tell the jury Rittenhouse had the gun illegally when he didn't. It's right there in the statute.
Section 948.60(3)(c):
"This section applies only to a person under 18 years of age who possesses or is armed with a rifle or a shotgun if the person is in violation of s. 941.28 or is not in compliance with ss. 29.304 and 29.593."
Section 941.28 prohibits short-barreled rifles. Did Rittenhouse have a short-barreled rifle? No.
Sections 29.304 lays out rules for hunting if you're under 16, and section 29.593 says you can't get a hunting license without taking a class. Was Rittenhouse hunting while under 16 AND did he get a hunting license without taking the class? No.
Putting someone on trial for something that's highly prejudicial but turns out to be frivolous can (and should!) be reversible error in the event Rittenhouse is somehow convicted of anything else. It's usually called "misjoinder" or "retroactive misjoinder."
Kyle Rittenhouse was running away from Rosenbaum. He ran into a corner created by cars and a building and while trapped there, was charged by Rosenbaum. Then he shot. And Rittenhouse was running away from Huber when Rittenhouse tripped and fell. Huber and others jumped on him, hit him on the head and pulled at his gun. Then he shot. And Rittenhouse pointed his gun away from Grosskreutz until Grosskreutz pointed his own gun at Rittenhouse. Then he shot.
Self Defense.
Left Bank of the Charles said...
The provocation of running around the chaotic streets of Kenosha and into the midnight hours waving his AR-15 with his finger next to the trigger negates the self-defense claim. }}}}
So wrong. You have no concept of self-defense under the law.
Note that, by LBC's own logic, it would have been legal to beat the shit out of every rioter "running around the chaotic streets of Kenosha" waiving weapons, rocks, Molotov cocktails, etc. And it would have also been fine to attack Gaige on sight, since he was waiving around a gun.
"Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...
I think it would be fantastic if some take-no-shit motherfunkels who happen to be black - were standing there with big guns - telling the White Left antifa thugs to - "go home."
A girl can dream."
It happened in my north Minneapolis neighborhood during the Floyd riots. They were protecting So-Low, the neighborhood's only real grocery store:
https://www.startribune.com/in-north-minneapolis-neighbors-patrol-to-make-sure-our-people-can-eat/570984062/
"THAT'S how influential it is to most blacks."
What matters, is how influential it is to their masters.
THAT'S how influential it is to most blacks.
No-one seriously thinks that the 1619 Project is influential to blacks. People oppose it because it’s idiotic hate-mongering that is affecting how teachers teach.
(It’s not really news that leftist ideas are bad for blacks.)
Near as I can tell, the left's argument is this: Your guys must stay home while my guys get to riot.
To which I say, bullshit.
You think this kid is some sort of vigilante? Hardly. Keep pushing this crap about how one side gets to run wild and the other must sit back and take it? Oh, and defund the cops while you're at it? You'll find out what real vigilantism looks like.
Not some kid. Grown men.
But you're too blinded by your partisan rage to see where this is going. I hope it doesn't get there, but if it does? There will be no winners. And you'll have only yourselves to blame.
If he was a vigilante there would be evidence of that. He carried a weapon because it was his right, and it showed he would not be intimidated. He seemed to be there so he could help protected someone's property and put out fires. The firearm was not to bring anyone to justice, but to protect himself.
If he was running around pointing his gun at people and telling them to put their hands in the air, leave the scene, etc. that would have some point of being a vigilante.
The most important rebuttal to being a vigilante is this: He had plenty of opportunity to go and shoot rioters and he never did. He only shot people who were in the process of chasing and attacking him. That's not being a vigilante. It's self defense.
in prosecuting an Antifa thug
Wait. What? Has this ever happened?
tommyesq said...
Why is the evidence of Rittenhouse drinking with the Proud Boys after one of his court appearances while wearing a Free as F*ck t-shirt and making the white supremacist OK sign being kept out of the trial? That’s an admission against interest that goes to motive.
Specifically what is the "admission" contained in that video?
***********
Especially since the three rioters who were killed were white...
JaimeRoberto said...
The idea that the OK sign is somehow a white supremacist symbol is one of the dumbest things from our dumb age.
**************
Correct.
Here's Brandon advertising his belief in White Supremacy:
tinyurl.com/2ejh4p7j
If you browse Bing Images you'll see him doing it numerous times.
Only totes unaware dumbasses like Left Back on the Charles can still push that nonsense.
Rittenhouse should not have been there with a gun
The police told him to go home.
Go home, you don't belong in this neighborhood. Strange that Crack would endorse this thinking.
"The idea that the OK sign is somehow a white supremacist symbol is one of the dumbest things from our dumb age."
One more reason to dislike the infantile mob on 4chan. Their stupid joke (hey kids, what if we pretend the ok symbol is really a white supremacist sign) was picked up by the SJW's as a "thing". And the 4chan kids laugh their asses off every single time.
On the one hand, how has this not been dismissed yet?
On the other, the longer this goes, the more a lot of people are exposed to abusive prosecution for the first time.
I don't know whether his actions were criminal, but, to my eyes, the prosecution has not proved they were. They are making Bill Kristal's performance in his debate with Scott Horton look good.
Skippy Tisdale said...
"THAT'S how influential it is to most blacks."
What matters, is how influential it is to their masters.
Ahh - I have masters.
Nice to know..
You guys are babies, getting yourselves all wound-up by conservative think tanks. Every spokesperson I've seen against CRT, before their bullshit worked on the public, is an activist. You hate left-wing activists only.
What they do to you, to turn you into raving loonies, is of no matter to you.
You shame yourselves.
Left Back at the Charles:
"But when Kyle is on the witness standing saying he only came to Kenosha that night to help people, why can’t the prosecution ask him if he has ever seen people he thought were robbing or looting a store and said that he wished he had his AR-15 to shoot them?"
***************************************
You obstinately refuse to understand that "intent" relates to the defendant's intent to perform the particular act he is criminally charged with performing-----NOT his prior or subsequent feelings, where WHATEVER he thought/wished, he didn't kill anyone.
Just about every adult human being who is honest with him/herself has harbored at one time or another to the desire to physically harm or kill someone---but we don't do it because we know (a) we would get caught, with huge consequences for ourselves and our families, and (b) we know it is morally and legally wrong.
Shit, that's a major reason behind criminal codes---to remind people that IF they do "this", a bad "that" will happen to them.
Essentially you're arguing for the idea of "pre-Crime", that because you think R thought about doing something arguably criminal in the past, that "proves" he has/had the pre-disposition to behave criminally. So, he should be locked up NOW!!
And, Dull Tool, it is in no way contradictory that R wanted to help some people, by protecting them against people who would rob, steal from or otherwise harm them. Like police officers, for example.
DERP
BTW - whether it's race or NewAge, my arguments are advancing better in the culture than yours have, since we've been talking here. The fact Ann doesn't admit that speaks volumes.
She thinks a post on Aaron Rodgers flatters me, when a glance at the subject of NewAge is worthless to anyone: it's the most influential force in the world now, and one post on a brain dead football player can't even hope to encompass it enough to do me justice, when I've watched it grow from within my own bedroom.
"That's not being a vigilante. It's self defense."
For reasonable people, yes- that definition works.
But then, lefties like their dictionaries to be living and breathing, in order that they may shape words as desired to accommodate their delusions.
tim in vermont said...
"The statements Kyle made by donning the Free as F*ck t-shirt the Proud Boys gave him and making the white supremacist symbol clearly relate to the charges against him"
These are all capital offenses to the left, which is why the rioters where justified in trying to kill Rittenhouse.
In advance of him actually having done it.
Ignorance is Bliss (one of my favorite commenters here, btw): "if you saw someone running around with a gun, would you feel compelled to threaten to kill them, to chase them, to throw things at them, and, once within range, to lunge at them?"
No. I don't think you understand the underlying principle of winner goes to jail, loser goes to the hospital (or the morgue). We don't want people fighting.
effinayright: "it is standard **safe practice** to keep one's finger next to the trigger when holding a firearm. It's something instilled in every soldier, every policeman who carries one."
That's not how you carry a firearm if you want to put people around you at ease. Would you run around like that for several hours?
Kevin: "Shorter Left Bank: That he was able to defend himself negates his claim of self-defense!"
As I understand Kyle's testimony, his fear of being killed or suffering great bodily harm was his fear that Rosenbaum would take his AR-15 away from him. He shot a man who was armed with a plastic bag.
Qaestar: "If using exquisitely bad judgment were a crime Left Bank would have gotten the Chair for the vote he cast in 2016. And they would have dug him up and fried his rotten corpse for voting while impaired in 2020."
Capital punishment for voting against Donald Trump. Again, there it is.
NorthOfTheOneOhOne" You do realize that the photo with the shirt and the Proud Boys was taken 4 months after the riot/shootings, don't you? If you want the legal system to be that capricious, ok; but I don't think you're going to enjoy the results."
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law.
RigelDog: "Note that, by LBC's own logic, it would have been legal to beat the shit out of every rioter "running around the chaotic streets of Kenosha" waiving weapons, rocks, Molotov cocktails, etc. And it would have also been fine to attack Gaige on sight, since he was waiving around a gun."
No, I am saying that the shit beaters should go to jail. Are you all purposefully misunderstanding what I am saying?
Drago: "Go ahead Left Bank! We can't wait to see what that fertile "mind" of yours will conjure up!"
You're welcome.
The Crack Emcee: "She thinks a post on Aaron Rodgers flatters me,...."
You actually believe her intent was to "flatter" you?
Hilarious.
That Prosecutor is pretty fucking dandy, and smug.
The Crack Emcee: "You guys are babies, getting yourselves all wound-up by conservative think tanks."
The Think Tanks!!!
Tell the truth Crack, you've got 3 or 4 dartboards with buzzwords and catchphrases and you just toss the darts and combine and post the results, dont you?
If the flaming dumpster Antifa thugs were pushing towards a gas station was the same flaming dumpster that Rittenhouse quenched with the fire extinguisher he brought with him, thus pissing off the mob - and I think it was - he may well have saved far more Antifas from death and permanent maiming than the total number he killed (2) or maimed (1). Wouldn't a flaming dumpster hitting and knocking over gas pumps be likely to cause a fireball that would burn to a crisp everything and everyone within 30 yards or more? And do it so fast that no one within that radius could possibly run fast enough to escape? And wouldn't survivors far enough away to survive have 3rd-degree burns on exposed parts of their bodies like their eyes? These Antifas were (most probably still are) not only violent thuggish assholes, they're utter morons as well.
This is rich...
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2021/11/11/michigan-attorney-general-dana-nessel-wasted-college-football/
A drunkards dream if you ever did see one!
Ill take Incoherent crack emcee babble for twenty Alex. Timing is everything, isn't it?
If you are unarmed, never chase a person with a gun.
Tim Pool sums it up nicely: "A child rapist threatened to kill a 17 year old lifeguard and then chased him down with his friend who fired a shot
the child rapist then grabbed the lifeguards gun and was shot in self defense
a violent mob with no knowledge of what happened then ran him down"
The line is, of course, "I shot the clerk?"
The fact that so many folks here have had the time to watch the trial confirms what I have suspected for a long time- most of Althouse's commentators do not work for a living and have too much time on their hands. Well at least the trial keeps them away from Fox News.
"She thinks a post on Aaron Rodgers flatters me"
Yes Crack, she did it just for you. (/Sark)
Crack Emcee @ 4:17: “… You guys are babies, getting yourselves all wound-up by conservative think tanks.”
Actually, it’s angry race-obsessed commenters —of any stripe, progressive as well as conservative— who are stirring the strife. Look in the mirror.
My Cousin Vinny is the best legal movie ever made by anybody. And it is definitely the best cross examination I have ever seen in my life. Brilliant and hilarious movie. And I love the guy who sucks down a chicken leg. That kills me every time.
*burp*
Original Mike said...
Something that has always offended me about how the justice system works; I expect defense attorneys be a bit underhanded and twist things for their client's benefit, but I've always thought the State, in the form of the prosecutor, should be ethically bound to seek the correct outcome.
They are both legally and ethically required to do so.
Ones like Binger who clearly don't? Should be flushed.
Mutaman: "The fact that so many folks here have had the time to watch the trial confirms what I have suspected for a long time- most of Althouse's commentators do not work for a living and have too much time on their hands. Well at least the trial keeps them away from Fox News."
Note to self: Mutaman, in addition to everything else, finds the concept of multitasking completely befuddling.
Bonus observation: after every Mutaman lefty lie re: Rittenhouse and the events in Kenosha have been obliterated, Mutaman reverts to the standard issue lefty taking points about conservatives because..what else does he have left?
Not a thing actually.
Obviously.
Left Bank: "You're welcome."
For what?
Your responses were utterly moronic, non sequitors, devoid of any logical connection to the facts of the case, etc.
But at least you are consistent.
Now tell us more about the secret pinging between Alfa Bank and Trump Tower servers and about the "billions" in laundered russian oligarch cash that should land Trump in jail.
Hands above the keyboard, freak.
Left Bank of the Charles said...
Why is the evidence of Rittenhouse drinking with the Proud Boys after one of his court appearances while wearing a Free as F*ck t-shirt and making the white supremacist OK sign being kept out of the trial?
You are such a pathetic moron.
1: It's not against the law to drink with people scumbags like you don't like. Hell, it's not even agains the law to drink with scumbags who I don't like
2: It's not the "white supremacist OK sign", and saying that just shows your'e a complete fucking morons as well as a total douchebag
3: WTF is wrong about "wearing a Free as F*ck t-shirt"? Do you ever think about the shit you vomit out here? Or do you just take whatever stupidity is the leftie talking point of the day of pass it on?
When the judge says “if he were on trial for using exquisitely bad judgment” and the prosecuting attorney points out that he is
No, the prosecutor lied that he is, and only an utter ass like you would buy it.
He's accused of deliberately murdering people, not merely acting in a way you don't like. That's several orders of magnitude different that "bad judgement"
The usual rule for fighting should apply, winner goes to jail, loser goes to the hospital (in this case, the morgue).
That, fuckhead, might be the case when two people chose to get into a fight with each other.
That's not what happened here. What happened here is that 4 scumbag left wingers decided they wanted to murder Kyle, and he successfully defending himself against the murderous assaults.
In two cases, we had the happy outcome that the attempted murderers are now dead. One got injured, and one managed to run away.
The last two are sad events, but demonstrate the reality that Kyle was only trying to defend himself, since he only shot at them until they stopped attacking him.
The provocation of running around the chaotic streets of Kenosha and into the midnight hours waving his AR-15 with his finger next to the trigger negates the self-defense claim
No, actually, he demonstrated excellent trigger discipline, carrying the rifle was entirely legal, and the only ones engaging in criminal acts and "provocation" were the scum who attacked him.
Despite what Antifa fan-boy Binger says, putting out arson is not legal "provocation", it's good citizenship.
Which is of course why you hate it.
The Crack Emcee said...
Achilles said...
> Guilty of what?
Being on the street with a gun when he should've been at home.
Nope, it's the rioting Antifa and BLM scum who should have been at home.
Kyle was out putting out fires, like a good firefighter cadet should do.
You guys are babies, getting yourselves all wound-up by conservative think tanks
No, crack, it's morons like you swallowing talking head bullshit who are the "babies" getting "all wound up".
He had at least as much right to be there as any other protestor out there, having the gun in his posession was perfectly legal, and self defense is a fundamental human right.
The only wrong doers in this story are the people who attacked him
You guys missed the post where and said that she posted on Aaron Rodgers but somehow I'm not impressed. Why would I be? Superficial look over something I've been studying for years doesn't do anybody any good.
Owen said Angry, race-based commentators are what get you guys wound up. I guess we are YOUR masters.
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