Writes Julie Bosman live-blogging the trial in the NYT.
EARLIER: At the same link, Mitch Smith analyzed whether it would be in Rittenhouse's interest to testify:
By taking the witness stand, Kyle Rittenhouse could look jurors in the eyes and try to convince them that he was scared for his life before he shot three men last summer in Kenosha, Wis. But doing so would also open himself up to a grilling by prosecutors, who are likely to accuse him of stirring up trouble and opening fire without reasonable fear that he would be killed or badly hurt.He didn't merely look the jurors in the eye and try to convince them, he seemed to relive the experience and to be overtaken with trauma, crying in a way that could not be faked. It was very real and convincing that he is suffering. One might attempt to argue that he feels sorry for himself, and he was reliving the horrible moment his life went to hell, and the men he killed are not alive to cry and win our sympathy, but I think his show of emotion will impress at least one juror that he felt truly cornered.
AND: Here's video of today's testimony. Scroll to the parts where the judge is talking (scroll to 1:21:00 to catch the judge's fiery attack on the prosecutor).
UPDATE: The video was a live stream, and it became unavailable at the close of the day. Here's one highlight:
Posts
143 comments:
Most people are upset when they defend themselves like this. They don't like killing.
This is why many people can't do it and end up being killed or raped.
Seems like a mistake to have him testify...but juries these days are itching to convict white people either out of wokeness or fear of retaliation from the BLM/Antifa mob.
If he is convicted then justice is truly dead in this country...
Wendy Rittenhouse, his mother, is crying from the gallery.
Along with Rose and Valarie, saying he must go free?
After watching the video I want to say that Kyle was amazingly good in that situation for a non-trained person. He maintained awareness and was able to keep his head in the moment during that whole event.
He is either very lucky or he is a natural.
He is easily top 1% as far as cognitive skill under stress if he was able to act that way in that situation.
Many trained people would not have done as well.
Why is Rittenhouse on the stand? Why did the judge not issue a directed Verdi t? What is wrong with the justice system in Wisconsin?
He didn't merely look the jurors in the eye and try to convince them, he seemed to relive the experience and to be overtaken with trauma, crying in a way that could not be faked. It was very real and convincing that he is suffering. One might attempt to argue that he feels sorry for himself, and he was reliving the horrible moment his life went to hell, and the men he killed are not alive to cry and win our sympathy, but I think his show of emotion will impress at least one juror that he felt truly cornered. “Putting the defendant on the stand is always rolling the dice,” said Christopher Slobogin, the director of the Criminal Justice Program at Vanderbilt Law. “You never know for sure what’s going to influence the jury.”
I think the defense made a rational calculation here.
The jury before his testimony could have just convicted him and saved themselves from the mob that is following them around and threatening to kill him.
Now they have to be cowards and throw a crying kid in jail to save themselves.
The Chauvin jury saved themselves. They threw someone in jail who didn't deserve to go so they could avoid the mob that democrats were stirring up.
I don't know who this jury is. They could be a bunch of cowards that just keep their heads down.
Most people are good little Germans.
"and the men he killed are not alive to cry and win our sympathy"
If those "men" hadn't attacked Kyle, they might still be alive to cry those crocodile tears. Unless, of course, they managed to get themselves killed by somebody else while involved in some other mostly peaceful protesting.
I wonder what the effect will be on the intimidated jury ? They know they have been targeted as the Chauvin jury was targeted.
My father was an Infantry officer in WW II. Platoon leader and occasional company commander until they could find another captain. In contact for six and a half months. Wounded three times. One of his observations is that to kill a man is a hard thing to do and to get over. Some of my army buddies are still troubled by the same thing from SEA.
No doubt that Rittenhouse is under stress for that reason alone.
Rosenbaum was a convicted child molester. Anal Rape of several minors under 15. Threatened Rittenhouse's life verbally and physically. The other guys aimed guns at Rittenhouse or tried to bash him with a skateboard before Rittenhouse shot them in self-defense. How you can be accused of "Murder" when you are RUNNING AWAY because you fear for life is unclear.
Obvious case of self-defense. Would never have been charged if he were Antifa or if the guys he shot were Neo-Nazis. So who knows how it the dumbo Jury will rule. If they enough libtards on the jury he will be convicted. Libtards don't care about the law or the evidence, its only about helping their side, or destroying those GODDDAMN CONSERVATIVES.
Everyone knows we have two systems of justice. Ashli Babbits killer can go on NBC and brag about shooting an unarmed woman while Chauvin rots in jail for 20 years because he sat on a Drug addicted ex-con for too long. Jan 6th protesters rot in jail for tresspassing awaiting trial, while Antifa arsonists and looters are released on Bond or never charged.
One could go on. But basically, until to dumbshit "Soccer Moms" and various middle class Libtards get personally and physically harmed nothing will change. Once it happens to them or their families they'll change, but not before then.
It might’ve been loud sobbing (I can’t play video at the remote area I’m at right now) but was it inconsolable enough to move the judge to ask the witnesses if he wanted to take a break to compose himself like they do in the movies. 😌
HE was attacked by Antifa dudes, and HE gets arrested, whilst Kamala is busy bailing out the Antifa's who are the violent ones causing the trouble. Kyle was there to help protect the small businesses that the authorities weren't doing, because they were told to stand down by their progressive Mayors and Governors. WHY isn't Gaige Grosskreutz arrested for attempted murder for pointing his glock right at Kyles head, which is why he got shot in self defense, in the arm. WHY is he free when he had an unregistered gun?? Progressives can do whatever they want with no consequences. The FBI hid that tape....funny how that always happens....
'By taking the witness stand, Kyle Rittenhouse could look jurors in the eyes and try to convince them that he was scared for his life before he shot three men last summer in Kenosha, Wis. But doing so would also open himself up to a grilling by prosecutors, who are likely to accuse him of stirring up trouble and opening fire without reasonable fear that he would be killed or badly hurt.'
People get paid to write this?
Let me try: If you go on vacation and the hotel has a pool, you can stay on the lounge chairs and not get wet. Or you could go swimming and you will get wet. But if you do go swimming, bring some trunks.
I will send this off to the NYT today. I breathlessly await their reply...
"he felt truly cornered"
Cuz he was.
Isn't it part of prosecutorial ethics not to bring cases that are unsupportable in law? How will the DA et al. be held accountable?
And how will the "authorities" go after the actual criminals active that day, including the witness who assaulted Rittenhouse?
I doubt there is much chance of the prosecution doing much harm at this point. They basically proved the defendant's case, prior to the defense providing any evidence. I believe Rittenhouse has the truth on his side. If this is not a case of self-defense, then there is no such thing as self-defense. The constraint and control showed by this 17 year old in all his actions was amazing.
"...I think his show of emotion will impress at least one juror that he felt truly cornered."
The video is even better at this.
Where is the self defense tag?
This was pretty obviously not murder.
I cannot possibly see defense counsel advising Rittenhouse to testify himself personally. The prosecutors showed themselves merciless yesterday when they went after the photographer who suggested that they had pressured him to change his testimony. They are not nice people, and appear to put winning well above Justice. They should never have brought the case in the first place, but did, and seemingly have sought conviction and life incarceration for a guy right out of high school for the crime of essentially thwarting progressive advance with any means at their disposal, fair and foul alike.
Well, it helps that Rosenbaum was attackign him, that Kyle legitimately felt trapped, and that every single person Kyle shot was attacking him and a direct, significant threat to his life.
All three of the people would have been alive and well. All they had to do was NOT attack Kyle.
Kyle wasn't given that choice
Oh, and for the "Kyle shouldn't have been there" crowd: Rosenberg, Huber,a nd Lefty, the violent criminal thugs, shouldn't have been there rioting, destroying other people's property, etc.
Kyle, OTOH, had every right to be there, and was making the world a better place by being there.
Per Andrew Branca; DA just beginning cross of Rittenhouse, tries to bring up evidence the judge has ruled inadmissible. Defense objects. Judge going off on DA big time.
State is getting its ass beat so bad it's trying to provoke a mistrial.
If the government had called up 20,000 National Guardspeople to protect the city after the first night of rioting, this wouldn't have happened.
But some people needed the riots to continue.
My impression of Rittenhouse is that he is incredibly naive about how the world actually works- it explains how he ended up where he ended up that night. Someone much older should have interceded with him much earlier that night to, at the very least, keep him from getting isolated all alone on that street with the "protesters". People like Rosenbaum had him picked out all along as someone they could roll if they got him alone. However, naive or not, Rittenhouse somehow proved too tough a target for them.
He never should've been on the street. Good kid, but he made a big mistake.
I'd let him go - he's traumatized already - but he's not an innocent party.
Bruce Hayden said...
The prosecutors showed themselves merciless yesterday when they went after the photographer who suggested that they had pressured him to change his testimony.
Yes, but he held up well and they came off looking like even bigger jerks than before.
He was cornered by leftwing thugs. one was a nazi skinhead.
I'm unimpressed by crying but I'm not a woman.
Kyle, OTOH, had every right to be there, and was making the world a better place by being there.
This, a million times over. Nothing in life is static, and the lawlessness encouraged but gutless politicians who stand down police forces to appease Twitter noise will only get worse over time unless we are fortunate enough to have many more Kyles. Politicians like a scared populace.
Judge has spent the last half hour continually admonishing the DA and sustaining defense objections. What a shit show!
Kid's doing a great job, and so far the prosecution's got nuttin' on him.
Yes it's a roll of the dice to have a criminal defendant testify, but so is everything else. It was a good bet with Kyle because he's remarkably poised (other than the very sincere and heartbreaking falling apart when he got to the shootings), and he's a complete fricking boy scout. (Not literally, but close.) Was in the Cadet training program for a local fire department, and a lifeguard. Was photographed the day before washing graffiti (f*ck the pigs, etc.) from a wall. Administered first aid. Whether you think he should have stayed home or not, he comes across as a solid and decent kid who was trying to do good things, and posed no threat to anyone who wasn't trying to bring about his death or grievous bodily harm.
The reason putting your guy on the stand is often a bad bet is because most defendants have a ton of baggage (and are lying sacks of shit), and taking the stand permits the prosecutors to get into it. Not with this guy.
Wasn't Clinton famous for being able to summon a tear to his eye on demand? Some funeral or other.
Any juror who needed his crying to be persuaded hasn't paid close enough attention to the prosecution's abominable case.
The question isn't whether one juror will be moved enough but whether 12 jurors won't vote to convict out of fear for their lives.
"Where is the self defense tag? This was pretty obviously not murder."
The topic is murder. It's a murder charge, not me deciding it was murder.
I see that J.D. Vance said on twitter "I took a brief break to watch this Rittenhouse testimony, and it fills me with indescribable rage."
A lot of people look at this as a game. "What is more advantageous for the defense?"
That is an unfortunate way of looking at the issue. Do we think that the legal system will protect him? The legal/political system from the prosecutor to the president of the United States and the media system from The View to The PBS NewsHour want to destroy him and destroy his life.
Vance continued: “We leave our boys without fathers. We let the wolves set fire to their communities. And when human nature tells them to go and defend what no one else is defending, we bring the full weight of the state and the global monopolists against them."
Think how brave you must be, not only to defend your community when rioters wanted to burn it, but to take the stand and testify in public to defend yourself against those who call you a murderer and a white supremacist and want to send you to prison for refusing when they ordered you to go home and let it burn.
Ann!
Any of your former students working as lawyers in this case?
Richard:
Your dad's experience reminds me of Clint Eastwood's line in Unforegiven, "It's a hell of a thing killin' a man. Take away all he's got, and all he's ever go to have."
I tuned into NPR while out of town. You should here how NPR mentions the Rittenhouse case.
OK - NPR is all Climate hysteria all the time with a sprinkle of "right-wing" bashing.
of course "rightwing" is mentioned but no one is ever "leftwing"
I looked it up.
Defense attorney Mark Richards is UW Law class of 1987.
The elected prosecutor is Michael D. Gravely, UW Law class of 1989.
Badgers on both sides!!
Ann Althouse said...
"Where is the self defense tag? This was pretty obviously not murder."
The topic is murder. It's a murder charge, not me deciding it was murder.
The State gets a tag, but the defendant doesn't?
Prejudicial.
So now the prosecutor is truly acting like an ass trying to provoke a mistrial.
In just one instance the Judge had to admonish him for telling the jury Rittenhouse taking the 5th under questioning means he is guilty.
Democrats are just shitty people.
The embedded link is hard to follow if you are looking for a specific time stamp. at least on my end.
Pics of Rittenhouse breaking down are all over media. How long do you think it will take before Lefties who are all "men should be able to cry and share their feelings!" will do the libtard two-step and attack him for crying on the stand?
BTW - it appears defense moved for mistrial with prejudice. If it's granted, better not be driving downtown in any major cities tonight.
Defense moves for mistrial with prejudice.
Leftwing antifa thugs are allowed to harass and intimidate and do what they want- then they are bailed out by Kamala money.
I hope justice prevails.
“Per Andrew Branca; DA just beginning cross of Rittenhouse, tries to bring up evidence the judge has ruled inadmissible. Defense objects. Judge going off on DA big time.”
Not only that, the judge went off on the prosecutors for bringing up Rittenhouse’s right to silence. And, no surprise, the cross examining prosecutor tried to put word’s in Kyle’s mouth, and was caught trying to testify himself.
“State is getting its ass beat so bad it's trying to provoke a mistrial.”
Except that Branca has suggested that there is a decent chance of the judge granting a mistrial WITH PREJUDICE. That would mean that the prosecutors couldn’t refill or retry the case. He seemed mad enough to have done so, given the gross prosecutorial misconduct.
OMG the prosecutor is really testing the judge's patience today.
What. A. Dick.
The State gets a tag, but the defendant doesn't?
Prejudicial.
Reminder: This place is op-ed and Ann is selective in her cruel neutrality.
ugh - that video is super frustrating. I cannot find the crying part at all.
There are segments that flip around and segments with nothing but Rittenhouse shown is a black mask. so odd.
A reminder for those who have forgotten how social media has treated this case for the last 15 months: Link
For those worrying about riots if Rittenhouse is acquitted or if there is a mistrial with prejudice, I doubt those riots will occur. The main reason being that none of the people killed or shot by Rittenhouse were black. They were all white.
If he is convicted then justice is truly dead in this country...
Agreed. And it will lead to more Kyle Rittenhouses, not less.
If it is found self-defense goes out the window in the face of a mob, some people will simply figure they've got nothing left to lose.
Ross Garber
@rossgarber
·
1h
Asked if the prosecution has proven its case beyond a reasonable doubt, CNN legal analyst said “I hope so.”
Rittenhouse, who is now 18, fired an AR-15-style weapon eight times on the night of August 25, 2020, amid protests following the police shooting of Jacob Blake. Those included four shots at unarmed Joseph Rosenbaum, who was killed, two shots at an unarmed unknown individual, one fatal shot at unarmed Anthony Huber, and one shot at an armed Gaige Grosskreutz, who was wounded.
Rittenhouse tells a reporter that he is a certified EMT and he begins walking around with another man, yelling if anybody needs medical help - but he is too young to be certified, so he lied. After hitting Rosenbaum four times with four trigger pulls, the shooter, in response to the reporter, who asked Rittenhouse to call 911 while attempting to administer aid to the dying man, called a friend instead to report, "I just shot someone." So, no help from the "EMT" and his medical kit.
Then it was time to wander about shooting at three other people, two of which survived the out-of-control teenager who, just yesterday, cried for benefit of his judge and jury.
I suspect that ADA Binger is angling for a mistrial, even if it is with prejudice.
His performance has been unethical and grossly incompetent. I wonder if he will face charges from the judge.
OK - finally watched part of Rittenhouse trying to hold it together. So sad.
He is up against lairs in the press and liars who control social media.
Question to Wisconsin people: Were any Kenosha rioters prosecuted?
Dave Begley
Weird association here. In "The Great Warbow", a thorough history of the English longbow, there was a piece about confession.
Men who killed with "hand strokes" hand to hand looking at their enemy were confessed differently from archers who had no idea who they'd killed or if they'd killed although in either case they'd wanted to.
Kind of a differentiation of moral and emotional impact. The former might want more powerful absolution.
So here's Rittenhouse looking the other guys in the eye. Not like an artilleryman. Not like everybody's shooting and the machine guns and..... Not like if I don't somebody else will.....
Dave Begley
Weird association here. In "The Great Warbow", a thorough history of the English longbow, there was a piece about confession.
Men who killed with "hand strokes" hand to hand looking at their enemy were confessed differently from archers who had no idea who they'd killed or if they'd killed although in either case they'd wanted to.
Kind of a differentiation of moral and emotional impact. The former might want more powerful absolution.
So here's Rittenhouse looking the other guys in the eye. Not like an artilleryman. Not like everybody's shooting and the machine guns and..... Not like if I don't somebody else will.....
AND: Here's video of today's testimony. Scroll to the parts where the judge is talking (scroll to 1:21:00 to catch the judge's fiery attack on the prosecutor):
According to the video This video is unavailable...Video unavailable.
...because it is detrimental to the narratives you're working on with your allies in the media? Because you in the media don't believe people should be allowed to see the video and draw their own conclusions? All of the above?
I think the case has melted down so thoroughly, Prosecutor Thomas Binger is trying to provoke a mistrial.
I am not a prosecutor, but I regularly read Robert Jackson's Address to the Federal Prosecutors. I think every prosecutor should read it on at least a monthly basis (seriously).
https://www.roberthjackson.org/speech-and-writing/the-federal-prosecutor/
"Your positions are of such independence and importance that while you are being diligent, strict, and vigorous in law enforcement you can also afford to be just. Although the government technically loses its case, it has really won if justice has been done."
If the government had called up 20,000 National Guardspeople to protect the city after the first night of rioting, this wouldn't have happened.
Let’s be specific about this. If Governor Tony Evers (Democrat) had taken action to send National Guard troops to Kenosha, things would have worked out differently. But apparently Kenosha Mayor John Antaramian (Democrat) did not request help from the state government, nor did Evers take any initiative on his own part. So Kenosha burned and ordinary people had to implement their own defense.
People may decry vigilantes, but when the government cannot or will not support public order and provide justice, then you are looking at the absolutely necessary condition for the formation of committees of vigilance. So I have no sympathy for politicians when they make their police forces stand down, then have the nerve to bitch about vigilantes.
BTW, Althouse, are you still happy with the election of Tony Evers? Asking for a friend.
remember when NBC edited the Zimmerman 9-11 call?
Based on the reporting, he is testifying using present tense verbs. I have no idea what happened that day, but normal, truth-telling people do not talk about the past using present tense verbs.
Hat tip to Neo and her commenter DNW for pointing out this example of a journalist finding out she is fucking incompetent at her one of the primary skills of being a journalist- actually watching and/or reading evidence from an event. Keep in mind that Ms. Kasparian has repeatedly over the last 16 months opined on this event, and only now realizes that she never knew perhaps the most important fact for understanding the event- she has been under the impression that Rittenhouse was chasing Rosenbaum rather than the other way around. Seriously- how is it possible to get this fact wrong for 16 months? The mind boggles at this- I knew this fact the morning after it occurred. The video of Rosenbaum chasing Rittenhouse was available then- how is it one can have an opinion on this for 16 months and not once look at the fucking video? It was prominently posted even on sites like the NYTimes- it isn't like this video has been hidden. You literally have to be a fucking moron to make a mistake like Kasparian did. I can give her credit for admitting she made this mistake, but, wow- how do you make a mistake like this?
gadfly loses what is left of his tattered credibility by removing all the context from his story-line.
But then, that's how leftists roll.
"Although the government technically loses its case, it has really won if justice has been done."
Bill Talman, the guy who played Hamilton Burger, was once asked how he felt about always losing to Perry Mason. His reply was that Burger never lost, as not convicting the wrong person is not a lose for justice. A simpler time perhaps.
"Rittenhouse, who is now 18, fired an AR-15-style weapon eight times on the night of August 25, 2020, amid Antifa-led riots following the justified police shooting of Jacob Blake. Those included four shots at Joseph Rosenbaum, who was killed after ambushing and attempting to kill Rittenhouse; two shots at an unarmed unknown individual who had attacked Rittenhouse first by kicking him in the face; one fatal shot at Anthony Huber after Huber had attacked Rittenhouse by hitting in the head and neck with a skateboard; and one shot at an armed Gaige Grosskreutz, who was wounded after he aimed his illegal Glock semi-automatic pistol at Rittenhouse."
There, FIFY with some facts. I think it reads a lot better - certainly more honest - in my rendition.
Gadfly,
That is low even for you. Rittenhouse was chased by the other two people he shot, just the same as he was chased by Rosenbaum. One of them even tried to kill him with a skateboard. The other guy Rittenhouse missed was trying to stomp on his head while he was on the ground, and Grosskreutz has admitted that he aimed at Rittenhouse with a handgun before getting shot.
All any of the three people shot needed to do to not be shot was to not chase Rittenhouse.
"Based on the reporting, he is testifying using present tense verbs. I have no idea what happened that day, but normal, truth-telling people do not talk about the past using present tense verbs."
You should probably find a different source. Rittenhouse is using past tense verb construction.
Made the mistake of reading the commentary on Twitter about this. It's obvious our country now exists in two completely different worlds with mutually exclusive outlooks on what is right and what is wrong. Not sure how America ever repairs itself from this schism. Though unplugging Twit/Face, et al. would be a great start.
Justin,
Not watching the testimony right now, but he is likely talking about the actions while being prompted by videos of the event. It isn't unusual for people to use present tense verbs when describing actions of which they are literally watching recordings.
In any case, it wouldn't matter anyway since the events themselves are recorded- we actually know what transpired and don't need to take Rittenhouse's word for it.
Yancey @ 2:42 - Gadfly should watch that. Get an education from someone who is wrong and admits it.
Mr. Rittenhouse should pray he gets exonerated while exoneration on the grounds of self-defense is still permitted. The way things are going, it looks like one day in the near future self-defense will one day be outlawed.
Does anyone remember who the YouTube video belong to? Whoever owned it made it inaccessible.
All of libtard twitter who say nothing when AOC tears up at a fenced in parking lot, see Kyle's crying as fake.
This is the stupidest trial.
Big Mike said..
"People may decry vigilantes, but when the government cannot or will not support public order and provide justice, then you are looking at the absolutely necessary condition for the formation of committees of vigilance. So I have no sympathy for politicians when they make their police forces stand down, then have the nerve to bitch about vigilantes."
Indeed.
We all watched while 2 billion in property damage by looters, rioters, mentally ill rage-filled nut-jobs - raged on behalf of what the democrat party/media asked them to rage over.
We all heard the democrat party officially state that the Police should de-funded. We still watch, still, as Portland, run exclusively by democrats, is allowed to sink into a lawless dystopia.
yeah - people with guns are going to do something to protect themselves and their and their neighbors property.
The Poor Man's *** ***** gadfly: "Rittenhouse, who is now 18, fired an AR-15-style weapon eight times on the night of August 25, 2020, amid protests following the police shooting of Jacob Blake. Those included four shots at unarmed Joseph Rosenbaum, who was killed, two shots at an unarmed unknown individual, one fatal shot at unarmed Anthony Huber, and one shot at an armed Gaige Grosskreutz, who was wounded."
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
And just like that, gadfly takes time out from his/her/xer's feverish russian collusion/pee tape/alfa bank secret server communications lunacy to disingenuously scrape the most minimal and deceptive tidbits from a trial that is in its 8th full day to purposely, although its possible that gadfly is just that stupid, misrepresent what occurred on that night when gadfly's beloved felons and pedophiles were killed after attempting to murder a 17 year old.
Actually, gadfly isn't "misrepresenting" the facts of the case....he/she/xe is simply too dumb to understand what occurred and the law involved.
Well played gadfly.
You have reclaimed your position as the most ridiculous lefty commenter on Althouse...and remember, this is against stiff competition for that title from Left Bank and Field Marshall Freder.
Dave Begley: "Ann!
Any of your former students working as lawyers in this case?"
Prosecutor James Kraus, A.K.A. "Fatlock", is apparently a UW-Madison law school grad.
“I'm unimpressed by crying but I'm not a woman.”
Pics or it didn’t happen. But seriously… given countless displays of misogyny here, they may not offer up an honorary membership.
Based on the reporting, he is testifying using present tense verbs. I have no idea what happened that day, but normal, truth-telling people do not talk about the past using present tense verbs.
Why not watch the trial instead of listening to the media? You are capable of making up your own mind I assume.
I found Kyle to be quite credible, but he really does not have to be. There is no credible evidence against him.
The tense that people speak in has far far more to do with culture and education than innocence or guilt.
I loathe our politicized DA system. In a just world Rittenhouse would have been charged with negligent homicide for bringing a weapon he could not legally possess to a riot — the same kind of charge you’d bring against a kid without a drivers’ license who borrowed his dad’s truck to joyride and accidentally ran over a couple of people because he had no idea what he was doing.
When any liberal/leftist gets killed by a thug, I just laugh. You wanted it. You got it. As for Gadfly, post your real name and picture fatso. Lets see the "Big man" behind the computer keyboard.
100-1 you're some little twerp who looks like a fat 50 year old pajama boy. With a neck beard.
Adding to Bruce Hayden's comment, Andrew Branca, Esq is an expert on the law of self defense and how it varies from state to state. Focuses on gun incidents. I have been reading his daily summaries of this trial at Legal Insurrection. He has been live blogging as well, but I don't need minute by minute commentary. Had I known that the NYT had a journalist live blogging, I would still be reading his summaries.
True, it does come through that he thinks the prosecution is a confederacy of dunces, but his observations and video snippets certainly support that.
Many people are convinced that if only they could get Colonel Jessup on the stand, they could GET a confession out of him. Only an ACLU stooge like Sorkin could make it believable, much less dramatic, and St. Kyle humiliated his would be tormentors today. I wouldn't be surprised if at least one prosecutor was disbarred.
This is also why the liberal hope to get Trump on the stand was always flawed, especially with scum like Mueller and Weissman "overseeing" the process.
@Justin. that’s a lie and you’re a liar.
Chris Lopes said...
"Although the government technically loses its case, it has really won if justice has been done."
Bill Talman, the guy who played Hamilton Burger, was once asked how he felt about always losing to Perry Mason. His reply was that Burger never lost, as not convicting the wrong person is not a lose for justice. A simpler time perhaps.
--------------
In Perry Mason from what I recall also ends up identifying the culprit/criminal/murderer etc.
there is closure in that sense to accept : never lost, as not convicting the wrong person is not a lose for justice
for some there can be no such closure / nor do they seek it
Looks like Rittenhouse is off the stand. DA Binger made an ass of himself today. I suspect we will hear what a hero is really is in tomorrow's NYT.
This kid is experiencing clear symptoms of PTSD, and I'm down on his counsel for exposing him like this.
Would like to see defense attorney rush the jury and grab the rail. Demonstrate how fast it happened to Rittenhouse. Most gonna flinch.
Much different than slo-mo video.
This kid is experiencing clear symptoms of PTSD, and I'm down on his counsel for exposing him like this.
Possibly decades of prison versus retraumatization on the stand; an ugly choice but one but I think most people would err on the side of avoiding prison.
Defense counsel moving for mistrial WITH PREJUDICE.
Whoa. Blood in the water —BUCKETS of blood— after the prosecution destroyed itself with the testimony of its own witnesses.
Is this, like, a movie script?
"This video is unavailable."
Once again, democracy dies in darkness. Didn't realize YouTube adopted that motto.
Rittenhouse tells a reporter that he is a certified EMT and he begins walking around with another man, yelling if anybody needs medical help - but he is too young to be certified, so he lied.
Source? Be specific, gadfly, or be accused of lying.
I think this was a risky move. Rittenhouse looked good on the stand. But the prosecution didn't prove its case, so why give them an opportunity to turn the case into whether or not Rittenhouse is credible or a liar or violent or whatever?
gadfly said...
Rittenhouse, who is now 18, fired an AR-15-style weapon eight times on the night of August 25, 2020, amid protests following the police shooting of Jacob Blake. Those included four shots at unarmed Joseph Rosenbaum, who was killed, two shots at an unarmed unknown individual, one fatal shot at unarmed Anthony Huber, and one shot at an armed Gaige Grosskreutz, who was wounded.
Rittenhouse tells a reporter that he is a certified EMT and he begins walking around with another man, yelling if anybody needs medical help - but he is too young to be certified, so he lied. After hitting Rosenbaum four times with four trigger pulls, the shooter, in response to the reporter, who asked Rittenhouse to call 911 while attempting to administer aid to the dying man, called a friend instead to report, "I just shot someone." So, no help from the "EMT" and his medical kit.
Then it was time to wander about shooting at three other people, two of which survived the out-of-control teenager who, just yesterday, cried for benefit of his judge and jury.
Gadfly forgets to mention those three men were all democrat BLM brown shirts who were burning and looting private property the two nights previous as well as the night in question.
They were all marxists and they were all criminals with previous records and multiple run ins with the law.
He also conveniently leaves out the fact that Rosenbaum was also trying to grab Kyle's rifle, yelling at people to shoot him all night, and committing assault all night, and threatened to kill Kyle twice previous to his attack, and opened up his attack throwing a bag striking Kyle from an ambush position prior to chasing Kyle down and trying to grab his weapon.
Grosskreutz was one of the three brown shirts that attacked Kyle with a concealed weapon he illegally owned and had no permit for.
Grosskreutz lied on the stand repeatedly and was just as dishonest as Gadfly was in this post.
gadfly and these BLM shitheads are all dishonest terrible people trying to tear this country apart.
Quaestor said...
Source? Be specific, gadfly, or be accused of lying.
Rittenhouse admitted that the did on the stand today. FWIW, I expect gadfly told worse lies when he was trying to pick up girls at Young Pioneer meetings.
"My family has a dacha on the Black Sea!"
I've been reading a livestream of the trial since it started. One thing I've found interesting is the number of ex military who showed up on the 25th because they were tired of Antifa / Burn Loot and Murder getting away with trashing the town.
I don't think the pro-Antifa "prosecutors" like Binger understand how much fire they're playing with.
If that crowd has managed to catch up to Kyle, they would have killed him. But after they did that, the good guys would have showed up and fired a lot more than 8 shot,'a nd killed a lot more than 3 people.
Binger's up there arguing that while the State didn't have the right to keep the violent rioting thugs from trashing the town, the Antifa thugs did have the legal right to tell people where they're allowed to go (accusing Kyle of legally "provoking" Rosenbaum's attack on him because he didn't obey antifa orders to "stay off the street"). No, binger, it doesn't work that way.
Because if it does work that way, then there's no law.
Which means that there's no law that morally or ethically binds any of us.
The Left won't enjoy the society where that becomes the case. but God they're desperately fighting to make that the case
Gadfly said at 2:10 on 11/10/21
"Rittenhouse, who is now 18, fired an AR-15-style weapon eight times on the night of August 25, 2020, amid protests following the police shooting of Jacob Blake. Those included four shots at unarmed Joseph Rosenbaum, who was killed, two shots at an unarmed unknown individual, one fatal shot at unarmed Anthony Huber, and one shot at an armed Gaige Grosskreutz, who was wounded.
Rittenhouse tells a reporter that he is a certified EMT and he begins walking around with another man, yelling if anybody needs medical help - but he is too young to be certified, so he lied. After hitting Rosenbaum four times with four trigger pulls, the shooter, in response to the reporter, who asked Rittenhouse to call 911 while attempting to administer aid to the dying man, called a friend instead to report, "I just shot someone." So, no help from the "EMT" and his medical kit.
Then it was time to wander about shooting at three other people, two of which survived the out-of-control teenager who, just yesterday, cried for benefit of his judge and jury."
________
Having an opinion such as the above, and then expressing on a blog as fact, shows you haven't watched the videos of the incident, no nothing about the incident, haven't watched the trial, and basically know nothing of the case. I love reading other's opinions of matters if they make sure they are well-informed opinions. However, to spout something such as this without knowing a thing about the case, just puts your ignorance on display for all to see.
Rittenhouse tells a reporter that he is a certified EMT and he begins walking around with another man, yelling if anybody needs medical help - but he is too young to be certified, so he lied. }}}}}
IIRC, Kyle made mention of his training in interviews he gave prior to the shootings. He expressed that he has emergency medical training because he is a Red Cross certified life guard.
In any case I don't see the relevancy as Kyle isn't charged with practicing medicine without a license.
Oh look, Achilles the Troll enabler shows up. Here to rescue your buddy?
Fuck you.
Justin said...
Based on the reporting, he is testifying using present tense verbs. I have no idea what happened that day, but normal, truth-telling people do not talk about the past using present tense verbs.
This is the type of thing evil people do when they are defending obvious lies and bullshit.
No person who actually knows what is going on in this trial can paper over the lying that the DA and Grosskreutz have done.
More than one witness has testified that the DA has pressured them to change their testimony.
You are all disgusting people.
Spiros said...
I think this was a risky move. Rittenhouse looked good on the stand. But the prosecution didn't prove its case, so why give them an opportunity to turn the case into whether or not Rittenhouse is credible or a liar or violent or whatever?
Because democrats are pressuring and intimidating the jury.
The jury will have a much harder time now throwing Kyle in jail.
At least a few of them will hopefully not be cowards bowing to the mob.
I expect most people to be cowards when it matters and I think it was absolutely necessary for the defense to put a human face in the memory of those jurors.
This isn't complicated.
What would have happened if the people who got shot hadn't acted as they did?
Answer: Nothing. They would be alive. Everyone would be fine.
What would have happened if Rittenhouse hadn't acted as he did?
Answer: He would be dead.
gadfly said...
Then it was time to wander about shooting at three other people, two of which survived the out-of-control teenager who, just yesterday, cried for benefit of his judge and jury.
Does it every bother you that you're a lying sack of shit and a complete fucking moron?
"Lefty" went towards Kyle with a gun in his hand. When Kyle pointed the gun at him he put his hands up, and Kyle didn't shoot him.
That is the Platonic ideal opposite of "out of control".
There was another guy who moved towards Kyle, had Kyle point his gun at him, and then backed off. Unlike Lefty, he didn't try to attack Kyle once Kyle took his gun off him, so that guy is unharmed.
Are you lying about this because even you know your position is complete bullshit?
Or is it just that you are an utter scum bag?
It seems to me the prosecution is shocked the judge isn’t playing along with their gibberish…
No matter, what do we know about the jury pool?
"I have no sympathy for politicians when they make their police forces stand down, then have the nerve to bitch about vigilantes."
Amen to that.
I'm not a litigator, but my butthole clenched up when I watched that video of the judge berating the prosecutor.
When I first started practicing, I did a little bit of indigent criminal defense. Suffice it to say that I have a very low opinion of prosecutors, so much that I don't trust anyone who has ever been a prosecutor to be put in a position of authority. I have friends that started their careers as prosecutors, and I will tell them that to their faces. I view it as completely shameful and disqualifying.
I hope you're happy Achilles. It's irresponsible blowhards like you that inspire stupid kids like Rittenhouse to grab a gun and become a murderer. I can tell by these comments that most people here think that the real tragedy was Kyle didn't kill more people.
"I'm unimpressed by crying but I'm not a woman."
Good grief, quit pretending to be a woman who makes it all about women. Drama queen.
You're a very disturbed person Howard.
"...that inspire stupid kids like Rittenhouse to grab a gun and become a murderer. I can tell by these comments that most people here think that the real tragedy was Kyle didn't kill more people."
I don't think that the evidence shows that Rittenhouse is a murderer. I think it shows that he was a 17-year-old with rather poor judgment and a bit of a hero complex who ran into some people with severe psychosis who were determined to destroy property and threaten with murder those who opposed them, all in the name of and in sympathy with a guy (Jacob Blake) who threatened police officers with a knife after he had sexually assaulted his girlfriend and ignored police commands.
What the hell was Rosenbaum doing? What the hell was Huber doing? What the hell was Grosskreutz doing? Apparently all three were threatening to commit grievous bodily harm on a 17-year-old who was trying to run away from them. All this in the midst of a riot where the rioters were being given "space to destroy", as a former mayor of Baltimore said about another riot.
This is what happens in riots. This whole prosecution stinks. The reason that the state's case has imploded (even if there is a conviction) is that the evidence necessary to defeat self-defense isn't there. What would you do if Rosenbaum, having threatened to kill you if he caught you alone, leapt out from behind a car and started chasing you? You would run, and then you would defend yourself. What if, after chasing you down, Huber hit you in the head a couple of times with a skateboard swung like a baseball bat? You would defend yourself. What would you do if Grosskreutz advanced on you with a pistol drawn and pointed at you? You would defend yourself.
Which is what Rittenhouse did.
Howard: "I hope you're happy Achilles. It's irresponsible blowhards like you that inspire stupid kids like Rittenhouse to grab a gun and become a murderer."
Rittenhouse is just an idea. And the killings of your beloved pedophiles and felons was mostly peaceful.
“ I have friends that started their careers as prosecutors, and I will tell them that to their faces. I view it as completely shameful and disqualifying.”
How else do you get decent trial time, early on, out of law school? The back row in most of my classes in LS were just hanging around to get their tickets punched (get licensed to practice law). They really didn’t care about the actual law subjects - just those that related to trying cases. A number of them went the prosecutor/PD route. And most of them had jumped into civil litigation by our 5th reunion.
I would have had a problem either way. PDs defend mostly guilty people, often with seriously life issues. That would be hard. But a fraternity brother a couple years younger went the prosecutor route. As the newby, he had the garbage detail, which included misdemeanors and lower level offenses. He said that it got old partying with guys on Friday, then prosecuting them for things like pot on Monday. He did a lot of traffic stuff, despite having a notorious lead foot. After maybe 3 years, he quit, and ultimately built a career as a private pilot flying high end Gulfstreams around the world. Much happier.
Rosenbaum was charged by a grand jury with 11 counts of child molestation and inappropriate sexual activity with children, including anal rape. The victims were five boys ranging in age from nine to 11 years old.
Another of Howard's "Heroes".
Anthony Huber: kidnapped and suffocated women. Convicted twice.
Another of Howard's "Heroes".
I am starting to see why lefties like Howard strongly embraced the Lincoln Pedophile Project.
“Rittenhouse, who is now 18, fired an AR-15-style weapon eight times on the night of August 25, 2020, amid protests following the police shooting of Jacob Blake. Those included four shots at unarmed Joseph Rosenbaum, who was killed, two shots at an unarmed unknown individual, one fatal shot at unarmed Anthony Huber, and one shot at an armed Gaige Grosskreutz, who was wounded.”
It didn’t matter that Rosenbaum wasn’t armed - he yelled at Rittenhouse tat he was going to kill him, and ten grabbed his gun, presumably to try to take it away from him. That is more than sufficient to justify Rittenhouse shooting him in self defense. The reason that someone In Rosenbaum’s position to grab someone else’s gun is to take it away from them and then presumably to shoot them with it. Yes, he could be grabbing it for another reason, but it is reason, in this country, to presume that the purpose of grabbing your gun, is to use it against you. If I had been I Rittenhouse’s position, and Rosenbaum tried to take my gu away, I no doubt would have shot him too. Too dangerous not to.
Huber hit Rittenhouse several times, hard with his skateboard. He hit him in the neck/head area, where he easily could have killed or permanently injured by Huber and his skateboard. In his hands, his skateboard was a deadly weapon. Similarly, Drop Kick guy kicked Rittenhouse in the neck/head region several ties with his kicks. Again that easily could have killed or permanently injured Rittenhouse. And of course, Gage pointing his gun at Kyle threatens imminent death or great bodily injury. All three legally justifies a reasonable belief by Kyle in the imminent possibility of earth or great bodily injury on te part of Rittenhouse.
Howard,
If those people like Rittenhouse hadn't shown up that night in Kenosha, the city would have been burnt to the ground within a week. They finally embarassed the governor enough that he stepped in and started doing the job the people of Wisconsin elected him to do, but it took 3 days for that to happen.
Good rule of thumb: if you're a statist slavishly following the Hive party line, you're not really a Gadfly.
It's irresponsible State-fellators such as Howard who inspire both stupid kids to join the Young Socialists or similar organizations and increase the Democide body count.
PROSECUTOR: "You decided you needed to run because of the fire?"
RITTENHOUSE: "Yes."
P: "Why? What was so urgent?"
R: "It was a fire."
I can tell by these comments that most people here think that the real tragedy was Kyle didn't kill more people.
Well, four people attacked him and only two are burning down in Hell right now. The Democrat governor did not take action to deal with the riots until after Rittenhouse demonstrated that people were prepared to fight back to defend themselves, so it’s possible to argue that Rittenhouse’s shooting of the criminals helped end the Kenosha riots sooner.
Here you have it... https://twitter.com/i/status/1458603356721541126
Nuff Said!
There are a lot of "Bingers" in the media. Perhaps the majority of "influencers".
And they will never be right.
Howard said...
I hope you're happy Achilles. It's irresponsible blowhards like you that inspire stupid kids like Rittenhouse to grab a gun and become a murderer. I can tell by these comments that most people here think that the real tragedy was Kyle didn't kill more people.
11/10/21, 9:15 PM
Maybe if we had Progressives who didn't tell the police to stand down whilst Antifa's and BLM's were burning it all down whilst murdering residents, you wouldn't get Americans trying to protect the city themselves. MAYBE if Antifa's and BLM's weren't praised and given accolades by Progressive idiots such as you, THEY wouldn't think they have the mandate TO burn down our cities...but when the authorities stand down...they can do whatever they want. Go back to sleep little Howard. You are clueless.
The ADA Binger made a bold decision to prosecute the AR-15 as a co-defendant!
Please change your tag on this from #murder to #homicide. The trial has made the difference abundantly clear.
"If those "men" hadn't attacked Kyle, they might still be alive to cry those crocodile tears."
Isn't that what this trial is supposed to determine...whether he killed those men in self-defense--because they "attacked him"--of if he shot non-threatening men without cause?
"I wonder what the effect will be on the intimidated jury ? They know they have been targeted as the Chauvin jury was targeted."
Because you disagree with the verdict in Chauvin's trial, you assume the jurors simply surrendered to public pressure or fear? It could be (and is more likely that) they were convinced by the evidence that Chauvin murdered Floyd.
Because you disagree with the verdict in Chauvin's trial, you assume the jurors simply surrendered to public pressure or fear?
Yes
It could be (and is more likely that) they were convinced by the evidence that Chauvin murdered Floyd.
No
Huh. Haven't watched any of the trial, but it sounds like by now everyone knows the facts. Young tough, heard about trouble, decided some people needed his help protecting things from looters and rioters, showed up with a gun. Probably all that was stupid, but I can hear that he thought it was heroic. Got in some altercations and got attacked, hit with deadly weapons (skateboard sounds funny but really isn't), things escalated, people chased him with guns and tried to take his, he shot them. Lot of heat-of-the-moment situations toward the end, but it doesn't sound like he ever lost control and starting firing into the crowd or anything like that.
Is that more-or-less agreed on by all?
So what is left for the jury to do? Decide if that counts as self-defense, or as some situation where it's all his fault because he shouldn't have started off that way, like someone robbing a liquor store? How are they supposed to decide? Judge will tell them?
This case is in some ways a Rorschach test. I look at the evidence presented at trial and wonder why the judge didn’t give a directed verdict of acquittal at the end of the prosecution’s case. Then I read the comments at the Washington Post and New York Times, and they’re ready to join a lynch mob and haul Rittenhouse out of the courthouse and string him up. Of course, few if any of them are actually looking at the evidence presented at trial. Nonetheless, my prediction is that the jury acquits on all the felony charges. It might convict on the misdemeanor carrying while underage charge. That charge should have been dismissed by the judge as the statute is too ambiguous and badly written to pass constitutional muster.
On Instapundit, Stephen ("Vodkapundit") summarizes the prosecution's case thusly: "Rioting good [or at least permissible]; self-defense, bad."
Which would pretty much summarize the Hive's philosophy: force in the name of their shibboleths and superstitions ("social justice," etc.) Is permissible, and even encouraged; while force used to defend one's self or others from aggressive force (the basis of modern "liberalism") is wrong, and should be prosecuted.
Binger is the guy that is still getting over the elementary school wedgies.
The judge seems to have lost control here as well. Binger is owning the judge, and daring him into some reaction.
State-fellatin' Howard lecturing us on rights and responsibilities? We may as well be getting a lecture on citizenship from Sir John Filmer or one of the other Old Tories.
Young tough, heard about trouble, decided some people needed his help protecting things from looters and rioters, showed up with a gun.
Nope. He works in Kenosha. It's my understanding he was asked by some people - after work - to do some protection duty with others on the third night of rioting. He was given the gun.
It was when he got separated from his group that the trouble started.
Regarding the crying: I have read, and am told by people in a position to know these things, that when young men lay dying on the battlefield they very often cry for their mothers. How does this bear on Kyle Rittenhouse? To criticize his motivation seems to me to deny the very human impulse of seeking comfort in the face of horror. And horror is not the same as guilt, even when it reveals that you are capable of things you did not anticipate. Ask my uncle, who was the defendant’s age when he waded onto Utah Beach under fire. We live in times of luxury; perhaps the critics should check their privilege.
The lesson for everyone should be that when the blue zones are burning, just let them burn. The police and elected gov't won't have your back if you try to help, and will quite likely side with the arsonists.
If Rittenhouse gets through this without prison time, he should move here to Arkansas. We'll throw him a parade.
Douglas B. Levene said...
This case is in some ways a Rorschach test.
No, it's just a demonstration that the Left is fundamentally dishonest.
1: I guy screams "if I ever get you alone I'm going to fucking kill you." Th en he gets the guy alone and chases him, even who he has a gun pointed at him.
And keeps on chasing until he's shot and killed (at which point he had his hand on Kyle's gun).
If that isn't self defense, then nothing is
2: A guy strikes someone multiple times with a deadly weapon, and then grabs for the guy's gun before getting shot.
Obvious self defense. A blow to the head with qa club is GBI
3: A guy points a guy at someone lying on the ground, where he was knocked by other enemies. The guy on the ground points his rifle at the standing guy, who puts his hands up. Guy on the ground takes his gun off the standing guy. The standing guy then swings his gun at the guy on the ground, but gets shot before he can pull the trigger.
Again, obvious self defense.
It's not a Rorschach test, it's a human decency test.
It might convict on the misdemeanor carrying while underage charge. That charge should have been dismissed by the judge as the statute is too ambiguous and badly written to pass constitutional muster.
The law is perfectly clear: it's illegal to carry a short barreled rifle in public, or a normal rifle if you're under 16 and haven't passed a hunting safety course.
As Kyle was 17, that made carrying his normal barreled rifle perfectly legal.
no, the title doesn't matter. What matters is the actual language of the law, and that's quite clear
In the latest incident, Judge Bruce Schroeder on Thursday asked the crowd gathered in the courtroom to identify themselves if they were a veteran because it was Veterans Day. “I just want to observe that it’s Veterans Day and, any veterans in the room? On the jury or anywhere else?” Schroeder asked.
When the court responded with silence, Schroeder said, “Well, that’s unusual not to have at least somebody in here, but Dr. Black is, what branch?”
Schroeder was referring to the next witness to be called by Rittenhouse’s defense team, John Black, who is a use-of-force expert. Black, who was about to take the stand, responded to Schroeder's direct question that he had served in the Army.
“OK, and I think we can give a round of applause to the people who have served our country,” the judge said, referring to Black, who was the only veteran known in the courtroom, thanks to the judge. People in the courtroom applauded Black, as did the judge. Members of the jury joined in the applause as well.
Once Black took the stand, Rittenhouse’s defense attorney asked him to recite some of the details of his Army service. Black said he served for “thirty years” and advanced to the “rank of sergeant major” before his retirement.
"God Bless the USA" and the court's best efforts to make gunman Kyle Rittenhouse "Free as Fuck."
I decided to try understanding Gadfly’s motivation and perspective. It’s not conceivable that he or she actually believes what he writes and posts. I surmise that It’s a hobby that s/he has taken up. S/he skims through the internet for a news item or an op/ed or a political pronouncement that s/he knows she can make outlandish statements about with the certainty that what s/he says will be shot down by cogent commentators who pay attention to the facts, use logic, and who will take the time to challenge the outlandish entries made by him or her.
It’s sort of sick, even as a hobby, but … it takes all kinds … and everyone is free to amuse oneself in any way they choose including trolling — just for the fun of it. Especially if one can do it anonymously.
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