Said Father Jeffrey Woolnough, quoted in "Father’s shock after son held over Sir David Amess murder" (London Times).
The word "Father" in the headline doesn't refer to the priest but Ali Kullane, the father of Ali Harbi Ali, who has been arrested for the murder. That father said: "I’m feeling very traumatised. It’s not something that I expected or even dreamt of."
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The suspect was a “self-radicalised” lone operative known to counterterrorist police,
if only! If Only there was some way, that if someone was a “self-radicalised” lone operative known to counterterrorist police; that the police could, Somehow, Some way
KNOW about them
It just seems like we are always hearing about “self-radicalised” lone operatives known to counterterrorist police, that go and do stuff...
And WHEN it happens, the police are like: "WOW! Didn't See THAT coming!!"
Yes, the whole world has been waiting to hear what the killer's father's feelings are. I guess they constrained to grab something new for the headline, or there's little reason to run the item at all.
AA highlighted the priest not being to see the victim before he expired. I tend to agree that coulda/shoulda been the lede.
BTW, I notice the victim somewhat resembled a beefy Orson Bean, with a little Chris Matthews thrown in.
Gilbar, not enough officers in the security services and too many 'suspects'. It takes almost 50 people to run 24/7 observation on one target.
I’m sure British police had good reasons for not seriously tracking this guy until he had blood up to his elbows. Of course had he done something really threatening like post an anti-trans cartoon to Facebook he’d have been in their crosshairs for sure.
It’s not the time for the father of the murderer to be making public statements. Have the decency to remain respectfully silent.
"The father of Ali Harbi Ali" sure is getting an unusual amount of press coverage of his personal angst; does it have anything to do with his former (or current?) well-paying job as director of Somali propaganda?
"I’m feeling very traumatised. It’s not something that I expected or even dreamt of."
How so? Why not? Because this form of jihad is so puny and ineffective? Because his son only took out only one unbeliever?
BTW, the Britannic news outlets refer to Amess's "surgery", which means a "meeting" in their strange, foreign lingo.
The priest should have (and it's likely he did) performed the rite without having physical access to the victim. There are loopholes! When it comes to the Sacraments, you try hard, then do the best you can.
The context in this explanation isn't exact, but it expresses the general idea.
..."The sacraments. They are the signs of Christ's work; the effectiveness of Christ's continuing work in his Church cannot be dependent on man's inadequacy".
Shouldn’t counterterrorist police inform family members of a self-radicalized person in their midst?
The application of the holy oils to the dying can be omitted in cases of necessity, at least in the Roman Catholic rite. The sacrament of Extreme Unction is based on prayer for the dying, not just the dabbing of holy oil. As was explained to me as my grandfather received the sacrament, without painful removal of his compression socks.
The trauma of the parent of the murderer might be amusing, were it not in obvious comparison with the trauma inflicted by his son, the murderer. Sometimes people just can't get over themselves.
How does a father who sees his son periodically or more often not know that he is becoming radical? I can’t imagine that. The more likely case is that the father knew and deluded himself into thinking that HIS son would not be capable of attacking and killing an innocent man. Kind of like the conversation with the principal at school when your son is suspended. ‘My son would never do such things. You’re picking on the poor lad.”
Story is behind paywall. I was interested to find if the needs of the evidence were fully gratified. Perhaps some evidence was left traumatized.
The globalist aristocracy is moving these people into our communities and protecting them.
They are doing this on purpose knowing what Muslims will do in a free society.
Muslims and globalists are both enemies of freedom. They both have different goals but they should be treated the same way.
I certainly hope the NHS will provide therapeutic counseling for the murderer’s father. And, in due course, for the murderer: because while it is too late to help the victim, we need to recognize that the murderer is himself a victim, one of many, caught in the tragedy of systemic racism or colonial hegemony or blah blah blah.
The rituals and sacraments of the One True Faith must be observed and accommodated. Those of Roman Catholicism less so.
Perhaps the entire family is radical and came to Britain only because of a clan/political feud in the old country?
Leopards, spots, etc.
What is the difference between radial Islamic terror in the UK and home-grown leftwing Antifa terror?
Leftwing progressive democrat authoritarians pass anti-police measures in Portland - and the idiots who vote for their precious progressives blame the police.
of course.
so this is like the tucson shooting, or pulse, the father was well connected in the community,
While I appreciate what Scott Patton and mikee have explained upthread, it seems to me that the British police need some training on how to be sensitive to the religious practices of Roman Catholics and other subjects of Her Majesty who do not have the privilege of being Muslim.
The father felt traumatized?
How do you think the victim felt?
I don't understand this quote. The Muslim father was upset that he couldn't say Catholic prayers over the body of the man his son killed? He doesn't know what the victim wanted and how does he know (does he know?) Catholic prayers?
Father overstates it. Both of them.
The sacrament of anointing is indeed very beneficial and highly recommended, but it is not "necessary" for one to enter heaven. The sacrament confers the grace in an outward and visible way, but that grace is still available in a non-sacramental way if the heart is open to it. Even to unbaptized non-Christians, as in the case of martyrdom (baptism by blood).
The other father protests too much me thinks. Over and over we have seen this same dynamic of a Muslim terrorist's family being "shocked, shocked" that their family member is a murderous radical.
Facebook recently started posting warnings to the home page of a Canning Club: "Do you know somebody who is over-prepared?" Learn More Facebook has decided that people who preserve food for a hobby are suspicious! They might be preppers!
The point is, what does one do in this sort of culture? If the police know of 500 'self-radicalized loners' that have done nothing unlawful, what do they do when one pops off? Arrest the other 499? Put them to death immediately? What if it's a Social Credit system instead, doing the labeling? As we have seen in countries such as Australia, police are now following up with home visits for questioning 6-month-old Facebook posts they deem questionable.
This is a natural product of an over-surveilled society - especially (in the U.K.) one that has removed all of the guns and all of the pointy knives, one that routinely confiscates things from people in public that might be construed as being dangerous, and prosecutes people who defend their own lives, safety and home, giving them a fat jail sentence as a reward.
Yes, that's what the British officials do now - and then they refuse Last Rites to a victim that is religious, as a capper. So: The British relinquished their weapons in the name of Safety to preserve their rights, only to lose all three of those things to the resulting criminal and governmental tyranny.
In the USA on the other hand, the church-goers pull their weapons and serve immediate, karmic justice to the violent aggressor. And then they take individual responsibility for the results and get on with normal life.
Society does much better when its citizens are taking an active role in its function, rather than placing undue trust in its institutions to run it as a service. They are not service providers - they are authorities, and their interests are different to yours.
The priest should have (and it's likely he did) performed the rite without having physical access to the victim.
....
The sacrament of Extreme Unction is based on prayer for the dying, not just the dabbing of holy oil.
No and no.
This is not simply a "rite," but is a Sacrament - an outward visible sign, instituted by Christ, to confer grace (the invisible power of God). The prayers part of the giving of the sacrament of anointing, but the essential outward visible and efficacious sign is the laying on of hands and the physical anointing of the person with the consecrated oil.
Without the actual anointing, there is no sacrament of anointing, which in cases of near death is sometimes referred to as "extreme unction." Certainly the good Father was able to offer prayers and even a form of spiritual communion with the victim, but he could not give the sacrament of anointing without physical touching.
And if the victim was already dead, there could be no sacrament of anointing in any event. The sacraments are for the living. The only things left for the dead are prayers and respect for the body.
so, of the 100% of police forces in the world;
99.99% need to be on the "Parents are Terrorists, because they think they should have input case"?
and only the 00.01% remaining are available to write up post action reports,
after a "“self-radicalised” lone operative known to counterterrorist police" goes out and terrorizes ????
Just Wondering IF that's the Best allocation of human resources???
Sky News understands that Labour, the Liberal Democrats and the Green Party will not stand candidates to contest the Southend West by-election.
It follows the precedent set after the murder of Mrs Cox in 2016, when Labour's Tracy Brabin was the only mainstream candidate.
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is this civility bullshit or common decency?
is such even conceivable in USA?
Two martyrs for the price of one.
Shouldn't the tags be "Catholics, Muslims, murder"
Sins of the son.
"The suspect was a “self-radicalised”"
Otherwise known a spiritual masturbation.
Coming soon to anytown U.S.A. FJB
There was a similar attack by a known wolf in Norway earlier this week:
https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2021/10/loose-ends-139.php
You have to scroll down for the story.
Events like these just might fuel some anti-muslim extremism. Or at least some increased supervision by the police.
Nah, who am I kidding.
You can be sure the police chief will be warning his officers to be on the lookout for signs of an anti Muslim backlash.
As someone earlier posted, it's too late to help the victim now. But at least there's still time to help the perpetrator.
@Mark, I disagree with you regarding Father Woolnough. The victim had not yet expired, and even if he had expired, we now know that hearing is the last of the senses to be lost when a person dies — to the point where people have been clinically dead (but been resuscitated) and heard the discussions going on around them as they lay “dead.” I am not Roman Catholic not have I ever been dead, but I can imagine it is a great comfort to a dying Catholic to know that the last rites have been pronounced.
Now go read my comment from 9:53.
Aggie said...
In the USA on the other hand, the church-goers pull their weapons and serve immediate, karmic justice to the violent aggressor. And then they take individual responsibility for the results and get on with normal life.
I still remember watching a clip of a guy opening fire in a Texas church. At least two men returned fire. I believe one was killed. But if you were attuned to the whole scene, Granny was in the foreground getting a pistol out of her purse.
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