The columnist says the tenant's only hope — other than a direct appeal to the neighbor — is to ask the landlord require the removal of the camera. Though the landlord can object to the installation of anything, the tenant alone can do nothing because there's no expectation of privacy in the common areas, and that includes sightlines from the common areas into your apartment whenever you open your door.
It's such an intrusion to install a Ring camera that goes straight into your neighbor's apartment! And yet, it's an intrusion to share a hallway, just an old-time-y intrusion that we don't think much about. But if you want the protection of a Ring camera — so that you don't open your door to strangers or let bad people figure out that no one is home inside — you've got to impose on your neighbors. It seems awful, but as time wears on, it will seem more and more normal, and tenants will probably settle into the idea that these cameras protect everyone, and isn't it easy enough to slink through a slightly cracked open door whenever you come and go?
In the comments over there, somebody has a legal concept that the columnist didn't address: "Ring has an audio component which has eavesdropping capability. Audio recording without consent is a violation of the NY Penal Code. Amazon Ring is illegal in a setting where conversations can be recorded. The writer of this letter should speak to the community liaison at the local police department." That's awfully extreme. The audio can be disabled, and it's insane to go to the police without finding out that the audio is not disabled.
Posts
33 comments:
Just install your ring camera aimed at your neighbor's front door. Should be able to work something out then.
#firstworldproblems
The police would no doubt end up in a confrontation with the tenants anyways and someone might end up getting shot, am I right!
I contend that the difference between nineteenth and twentieth century thinking was the development of the ability to think probabilistically. In many areas there was a lag, yielding the Soviet preference for Lysenkoism over genetics, for example. The idea that we don't have an expectation of privacy when we open the door, drive through the street, or talk casually on the phone in public because there is a small probability of our action being noticed and noted is absurd. We expect the probability to be non-zero, but small and we are willing to take the risk. Changing the probability to 1 is a profound change in expectation. A willingness to create a privacy-free world because of an inability to distinguish between extremely unlikely and extremely likely events is the kind of deficient logic that should have disappeared with Stalin's generation.
'It seems awful, but as time wears on, it will seem more and more normal, and tenants will probably settle into the idea that these cameras protect everyone, and isn't it easy enough to slink through a slightly cracked open door whenever you come and go?'
It's for your own good...you have nothing to hide, right?
Or put a curtain just inside your door that reads 'Fuck off.'
Hang a curtain inside your doorway. Maybe one of those beaded things you see in brothels. Not that I would know, but, you know.
In Massachusetts you may not record audio alone but audio/video recording is fair game...
I don't see a valid reason for a doorbell camera in a hallway other than to spy on your neighbors. A wireless Nest/Arlo inside your unit vestibule to monitor your own door opening is the neighborly thing to do..
Ring, and other similar systems all require an internet connection to broadcast the photo/video back to a Google server.
.....and don't get me started about Zoom. It's Chinese, and U.S. businesses are using it to conduct sensitive business discussions.
My smart aleck response would be to hang a large "F__k You" sign on the wall opposite the camera and wait for the neighbor to ask that it be taken down.
I guess this could be considered another feature of dense urban living. But I would suggest that this person speaks to their neighbor and point out that it's a bit weird to know that her comings and goings are being recorded by them. If that neighbor reacts as I suspect he/she will- in a nasty, potentially threatening way, then the writer of the question would be advised to quickly get her own Ring camera installed.
Clearly, this is how arms races begin.
Offer to let the neighbor install the ring camera at your doorway. Essentially the same coverage without the quick peeks of your bondage parties and CHOP Lego diorama.
Can you explain how cameras "Protect Everyone"?
Cameras don't stop a crime in progress. For actual prevention, you'd be better off with an armed security Guard, rather than a useless camera that simply records the action. Everyone's in masks, these days, making facial recognition obsolete.
Even without masks, many criminals are brazen enough to want the glory of being seen, and the power of getting away with it.
Reference: Please read "The Gift of Fear" 1998 by Gavin DeBecker, bible on self-defense. He has a whole chapter on the limitations of camera surveillance and why cameras won't stop a crime, but actually encourage criminal narcissists.
Or just wear a 'Jason' mask and carry a machete every time you come and go...
Duct tape over the lens would work too.
Definitely put up a Ring in response. Cannot have a Ring gap. This may lead to second Rings and more, stuck high and low, all over the wall; an endless proliferation of Rings as each party aspires to be…
…wait for it…
Lord of the Rings.
I’m here all week. Try the veal!
I wonder if the NY Penal code only covers intentionally recording a private conversation, not accidentally recording one. I also wonder if there needs to be a reasonable expectation of privacy for a conversation to be illegally recorded. Since the Ring doorbell is not hidden and it's a common area, can there be an expectation of privacy?
rehajm : "I don't see a valid reason for a doorbell camera in a hallway other than to spy on your neighbors."
Hmm. To see who may be hanging around outside your door ? And to prepare accordingly ?
People are being very picky here. There's probably some who'd even object to Mrs Moore's 88mm flak gun that she keeps trained on sidewalk in front of our house.
I wonder if this person has any IOT devices in their house like an Amazon Echo or Google nest.
Chances are they carry a cell phone everywhere they go.
People are worried about the wrong people spying on them. The neighbor can't do much. But Amazon and Google and Apple can.
Just wear MAGA attire when coming and going and the neighbor will quickly remove the device.
Doesn’t an infrared light blind it? Install one of those.
i'll see your Ring Camera, and raise you a Drone outside your window
"In Massachusetts you may not record audio alone but audio/video recording is fair game..."
Not sure you are correct on that. Massachusetts has strict two-party consent laws with stiff penalties for violation of the same. There is no statutory exception for recording audio while recording video. There is case law that you can secretly video/audio record police officers, but I am not aware of any such extension of this to ordinary people. Of course, there is a doctrine of implied consent, whereby if you know that there is a camera on you and choose to continue talking, you have impliedly consented to being recorded, but this is very fact-specific (or course, it may apply here where the person knows, and has publicized her knowledge, about the camera).
A free-standing Chinese(ish) screen three feet from the door inside the apartment would solve what, for me, would be the biggest issue: privacy. We have one in the otherwise open doorway between our family room and my wife's art studio.
Step 1: Visit your neighbor. Point out that the camera points into your apartment. Ask neighbor to reposition the camera so it's not taking pictures inside your apartment
Step 2: If you get a "no" on step 1, set up bright, focused lights on your door that shine straight into the Ring's camera. If the camera is going to violate your privacy, then you're going to disable the camera.
Step 2a: Become really clumsy when carrying hard, heavy things out your door. Repeatedly trip and fall such that your hard items are slamming into, and destroying, the Ring. "So sorry! Being on camera always makes me clumsy!"
IOW: talk to your neighbor and try to work it out. But if hte neighbor won't budge, make sure your neighbor gets no benefit from being a jerk
Well said, Two-eyed Jack.
That's awfully extreme. The audio can be disabled, and it's insane to go to the police without finding out that the audio is not disabled.
Unless the individual has physically destroyed the mic so that it can never work again, there's no way you can trust that it's disabled.
It is "insane" to set up a camera that points straight into your neighbor's home, esp. without talking about it with your neighbor first. Now, the proper response is to talk to you offending neighbor first. Because people do a lot of stupid things, where if you just talk with them politely they'll willingly undo the stupidity.
So, talk first. but, if that doesn't work, then escalation is entirely appropriate
Lasers.
Can't all of our neighbors just install cameras pointed at our front doors, even if we live in a house across the street from them? True, they couldn't easily see into our house, but they would know our comings and goings all the same.
“Hmm. To see who may be hanging around outside your door ? And to prepare accordingly ?“
Never lived in an apartment or condo building have you?
“Not sure you are correct on that. Massachusetts has strict two-party consent laws with stiff penalties for violation of the same.“
Hmmm. I guess thats why we never see anyone with cell phone cameras in Boston…
…or doorbell cameras…
The consent statute you refer to apply only to conversations between two parties, with the exception of police.
I would spraypaint the camera. Easy to do from the side.
owen and cassandra light had the best answers: curtains or a free standing screen/room divider. I'd go one step further and send them the bill for it.
The 'Hi Asshole' sticker on your door is the cheapest.
Post a Comment