Althouse: Joe Rogan calls vaccine passports "crazy."

August 7, 2021

Joe Rogan calls vaccine passports "crazy."

27 comments:

Lem Vibe Bandit said...: JUNE 14: The unvaccinated pose no risk to the vaccinated

AUGUST 2: The unvaccinated should be banned from all businesses

https://twitter.com/JoeMaz/status/1422251431474565122?s=20; 8/7/21, 11:44 AM
Mrs. X said...: Crazy? No. “Crazy” implies random and irrational whereas vaccine mandates are carefully calculated. Mandates might be authoritarian or intrusive or unconstitutional. They are not crazy.; 8/7/21, 12:13 PM
madAsHell said...: Now, let's do Voter ID!!; 8/7/21, 12:35 PM
Yancey Ward said...: They are crazy- I mean super-crazy. The CDC itself has already admitted that the vaccinated aren't protected against infections, and aren't less infectious to any greater degree than the unvaccinated. At best, all the vaccines might do is to protect against serious illness, but all this means is that it is the unvaccinated who are at risk in co-mingling with the vaccinated, not the other way around. Anyone who wants one can get the vaccine in the next 30 minutes at pretty much any pharmacy in the US- those of us who are refused are quite willing to bear the risk the vaccinated and unvaccinate pose to us. And passports, to what they claim to do, will require you to keep up with the coming booster regimes that seem to be required every 6 months just to fight off the past mutant strains. As time goes on, there will be fewer and fewer people who are up to date on their boosters.

In any case, the disparate impact of passports on minorities is going to get them tossed out in federal court at some point, so why bother?; 8/7/21, 12:58 PM
Chuck said...: Very simply; we in the United States of America have a long history of legal vaccine mandates which have passed federal court scrutiny. Professor Althouse knows this. Legal experts in that field know this.

And, we also have a long history of vaccines that have been deployed as successful public health interventions. Public health experts in epidemiology know this.

So where does Joe Rogan step off, claiming that people who support COVID-vaccine mandates are "dumb, they don't understand history..."?

I do believe that every minute I've spent listening to Joe Rogan has made me slightly more stupid. Which is why I so rarely do it.

Now; for some Althouse-reader interest. I expect that perhaps Althouse found this video because of the earlier blog post talking about the Glenn Greenwald-Aaron Rupar feud. And a clip of this Joe Rogan rant appears on Aaron Rupar's Twitter feed, as a retweet of the SportzStew outlet. And the comments under SportzStew's clip of this Joe Rogan bit are worth looking at for a laugh:

https://twitter.com/sportzstewcom/status/1423814883846541321; 8/7/21, 1:29 PM
Wa St Blogger said...: I have no idea who Rogen's guest is. I did like one statement he made because it comes to the core of what my political philosophy has become over time.

It's kind of hilarious that people won't try on skepticism in general. They need to be more skeptical. They need to push people in authority, in power, and hold them accountable for their words and their actions. An there's this reluctancy, I think, across the board to question power either on both sides. Right, so it's like the blue likes to question red, red likes to question blue, but now you'll follow lock-step in party line If one is saying something or the other.
That's a fuckin problem.

We are only free in as much as we don't let someone else gain enough power to take that freedom away.

This fits nicely into the the thread below about the press conference. Who cares whether a reporter is in irritating git. She and all of us should be questioning the authority of the people who can determine our health, and welfare. And anyone who tries to undermine that right is a fool.; 8/7/21, 1:42 PM
William said...: The true heir of Rush Limbaugh, including the proud flaunting of an expensive cigar. I hope the cigars work out better for him.; 8/7/21, 2:05 PM
PB said...: It's fairly well known and Marek's vaccine is a key example of this. Being reliant on a suboptimal or leaky vaccine.

It's the same biological effect that occurs when people have an infection, are prescribed an antibiotic, start taking the medicine, but stop when they start feeling better instead of taking the full course of treatment.; 8/7/21, 2:10 PM
Meade said...: Clearly mugged by reality. Welcome, Joe!; 8/7/21, 2:46 PM
LA_Bob said...: Thank goodness for Joe Rogan and his success. You can hum a few bars and he picks up the tune and sings it very well.

A common sense lefty and a common sense righty have so much more in common than the crazies and the "let's you and him fight" media will ever acknowledge.; 8/7/21, 2:55 PM
StephenFearby said...: Cat (Mamo) gets new NYC COVID-19 Safe App Pass. (Your tax dollars at work!)

To demonstrate potential problems with the NYC Covid Safe app, Huge Ma, a New Yorker who developed TurboVax, a widely used website that streamlined the city’s vaccine appointment system, showed on Twitter that he had uploaded a picture of a green-eyed cat to the app, instead of his vaccine card.

Albert Fox Cahn, who runs the Surveillance Technology Oversight Project, a privacy nonprofit group, uploaded a picture of Mickey Mouse to the app, instead of his card.

Both images earned a green check mark from the app.

“The New York City app is a camera app dressed up like a health tracking tool,” Mr. Cahn said. “It is not fundamentally a meaningful safeguard.”

In response, the city said that the green check mark shows that a photo has been uploaded, but is not meant to signal that the picture is verified.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/04/nyregion/nyc-vaccine-pass-answers.html; 8/7/21, 3:28 PM
readering said...: I turned off at around 7 minutes when the guest, rambling, conceded he understood the need for regulations that protect people from real dangers. Exactly.; 8/7/21, 3:44 PM
John henry said...: I call them racist since they will affect blacks disproportionately.; 8/7/21, 3:45 PM
Yancey Ward said...: I am going to make this simple for everyone:

Ask yourself this question- why did the CDC suddenly start saying that vaccinated people should wear masks indoors again? This directly contradicts everything they have said about being vaccinated for the previous six months.

Here are your options about their feelings about masking:

(1) They got polling data that masking is popular with their voters even though the masks dont' actually work at all;
(2) They just like making people wear masks against their will even though the masks don't work at all;
(3) They think masks work very well, and they like making people wear masks when they don't really need them since they are vaccinated and/or have recovered from COVID;
(4) They think masks work very well, and they think they will work to keep vaccinated people from catching and/or spreading COVID to each other and the unvaccinated.

Now, I think the choice between these four options is pretty obvious- it is #4. The data supports this option, too, as the motive for the sudden change in policy. I don't agree with the efficacy of the masking mandates, but I at least accept that they believe in them, so when they recommend them for the vaccinated, this tells me they have the explicit data that the vaccinated need protection from the infected and need to protect the uninfected from the infected vaccinated.

Give the above, passports are stupid, stupid, stupid. Rogan is correct- you are differenting between people on a basis that now makes no sense- either the vaccines really work and they don't need the passports to protect themselves, or the vaccines don't work and the passports won't protect anyone.; 8/7/21, 3:54 PM
JK Brown said...: Vax Crow - a legally sanctioned system of vaccination-status discrimination practiced in Democrat-controlled areas of the United States.

Oddly they deny those with natural immunity from recovery from infections with the wild virus. With the refrain, that we don't know how long natural immunity lasts. But we know it lasts longer than the vaccines since many have had natural far longer than the vaccines have existed. And studies have shown that those with natural immunity develop lower virus loads compared to Moderna, both lower than Pfizer and all lower than the unvaccinated who get the virus.

Now if they wanted to have antibody "passports" or something. But even then, virus replication can be possible and subsequent spreading. Would that allow some to "pass" as vaccinated and avoid Vax Crow laws?; 8/7/21, 4:15 PM
LA_Bob said...: Replying to Chuck and the link in his comment.

If you are on the Right and lived through the Vietnam War era and didn't develop skepticism over government honesty and competence you weren't paying attention.

If you are on the Right and learned of abuses in the prosecutorial class and not developed some doubts over the death penalty, you are not paying attention.

If you are on the Left and believe the government has done a bang-up job alleviating poverty, improving education, and fostering excellent race relations over the last half century, you haven't paid attention.

So if you are on the Left, Right, or Center in the internet era, and you blindly accept the government narrative (which is really the media-medical-government-complex narrative) that SARS-Cov-2 is going to kill us all and the incompletely-tested vaccines are "safe and effective" and should be mandated to all against a backdrop of significant scientific voices (Luc Montaigner? Robert Malone?) who question that narrative, you are egregiously not paying attention.

Joe Rogan's history lesson may be wanting, but he expresses the reasonable skepticism about vaccine mandates shared by millions of Americans who are paying attention.; 8/7/21, 4:20 PM
tim maguire said...: This is what happens when science relentlessly reduces the risk of disease and injury without society ever addressing the question of acceptable risk. There are enough people who haven’t bothered to think it through, who want to keep the restrictions until the risk is zero, that our society is being crippled.; 8/7/21, 4:47 PM
Amadeus 48 said...: Like the flu, covid will continue to mutate and stick around. Why do you think you are offered flu shots every year? 20K to 80K Americans die of the flu every year, many of them children. Covid will get added to the pot.

Bret Weinstein has done some good discussions of this. Megyn Kelly put him through the wringer on her podcast. Worth a listen. Weinstein points out that therapies have taken a back seat to the vaccines, and there is a regulatory and perhaps financial reason for that. He supports development of promising therapies.; 8/7/21, 5:43 PM
Wa St Blogger said...: Replying to Yancy Ward:

There is at least one other option. When reading an interview of a Los Angeles official when justifying their new mask mandate they admitted that the main reason to require masks was so that they could make sure the non-vaccinated wore a mask. By mandating everyone to, you no longer had to check to see if the non-mask wearer was vaccinated or not. Wish I could find the article, but I can't. Maybe it was memory-holed.

Of course, a vaccine passport alleviates the need for mask mandates under that logic. Or is the variant enough to require masks anyway? If this is good for Covid, will we then do Flu? Making everyone mask up WILL save at least one life.; 8/7/21, 6:10 PM
steve uhr said...: Yancy. Your four options don’t cover the waterfront . The virus mutates. So far we have been fortunate because the vaccines work well against the variants. That may not be the case next time. So the unvaccinated put everyone at risk by keeping lots of virus in the environment.; 8/7/21, 6:17 PM
Bender said...: Each of Yancy's options stem from a faulty presumption -- that the CDC and the Administration that controls it are rational, appropriately scientifically humble, and proceeding in good faith.

In fact, there is every indication that they are thoroughly political, ideologically-driven, and filled with hubris.; 8/7/21, 10:40 PM
Yancey Ward said...: Uhr, if the virus mutates, then the vaccines of today fail- full stop. The vaccinated are already "keeping lots of virus in the environment" if you bother reading the CDC's own data. When the vaccinated can get infected and infect others, then passports are stupid.

If the vaccines were as effective as was claimed and you seem to believe, then why did the CDC suddenly change the mask recommendations? There is only one explanation that is internally consistent with their belief system- they know the vaccinated are vulnerable to infection and can infect others. Passports don't solve this problem. Masks don't either, but they at least believe it does. You are trying to discriminate against people for no rational reason.

Seriously what is it going to take to convince you? Will you be convinced in December when we are finding 200K+ cases when 70% of the population is vaccinated and the rest have already recovered from COVID? We already have a situation where 50% of the population is vaccinated and the other 50% consists of a large number of people who have already recovered from the illness and have immunity the old fashioned way and/or are not susceptible to infection in first place. Do you really believe we are getting more positives today than last year at this time from a far less susceptible population? The only way to explain the numbers is that the vaccinated are getting infected increasingly as the vaccines' efficacy wanes- all the data supports this assertion.; 8/7/21, 10:46 PM
loudogblog said...: I am very pro-vaccine. I volunteered for the J&J (Janssen) Covid 19 vaccine trials last year. When they injected me, I was scared to death because it was an unproven vaccine. But I felt that I had to do it. My industry, live performance, had been totally shutdown by Covid and so many people I knew were out of work. I was luckier than most that my employer kept giving us a paycheck, even when we were at home because of California's stay-at-home orders. So I can see how people might be resistant to being vaccinated, but I see that as their choice and that they are assuming the risks of not being vaccinated. Granted, there are some people who have compromised immune systems and their doctors have advised them not to get the vaccine; but they should be proactive: mask up, social distance, sanitize everything and, perhaps, wear a button or shirt that advises others that they can't be vaccinated for medical reasons. I feel that so much of what I'm seeing in the media about the Delta variant is irrational alarmism to get ratings and page views. If you're vaccinated, your risk of dying from Covid is extremely low. But, here in SoCal, vaccinated people are masking back up. (Even though there's no state mandate, yet.) I just went to the store and everyone was masked up.; 8/8/21, 12:07 AM
Laurel said...: steve uhh. No, you are wrong. CDC Director Walensjy, speaking on CNN, confirmed that vaccination does NOT prevent transmission. Note: See article “I went to a party with 14 other vaccinated people; 11 of us got COVID”, Baltimore Sun, August 3, 2021.
In addition, because the vaccination eases symptoms, those vaccinated, while carrying a similar viral load as someone unvaccinated, are MORE likely to be transmitting the virus precisely BECAUSE, not feeling sick, they don’t quarantine.; 8/8/21, 5:10 AM
steve uhr said...: Laurel. You missed my point. Today the vaccine can handle the virus that is being transmitted. That may not be the case in two months. Otherwise - I would say go for it to all those who refuse to get vaccinated for whatever reason — so long as they pay their own medical costs and don’t overwhelm the hospitals.

Yancy. The virus has already mutated. It’s mutating every day though the vast majority of those mutations make the virus weaker not stronger. That is how evolution by natural selection works. What do you think the delta variant is? It’s a mutation that the vaccine can handle. The CDC changed their recommendation because we are now in a new wave- thanks to the unvaccinated. The facts change then the solution may change. No nefarious motive required.

If you don’t believe in evolution then you will need to find someone else to argue with. I’m not interested

I’m just repeating what Dr Fauci says. One of the most respected and knowledgeable scientist in any field.; 8/8/21, 6:36 AM
steve uhr said...: Laurel. You are also assuming that the vaccinated are as likely to get infected as the unvaccinated. In fact they are about 50% less likely; 8/8/21, 6:44 AM
Laurel said...: Steve uhr. I’ll write slowly, so you can follow.

None of what follows even considers the - bare minimum - 29 million who’ve survived COVID. CDC estimated 4x - 11x that number were actually infected but likely asymptomatic. Their superior natural immunity is longer-lasting than vaccination.

Vaccinated people do not have “sterilizing immunity”, as can be amply demonstrated by 2 observable facts:
They can and do get infected and symptomatic with COVID after vaccination, and, they do, in fact, transmit this virus forward.

With those 2 points, evolutionary biology will tell you that the virus will be mutating in response to the - disastrously - low hurdle of this non-sterilizing immunity vaccine. The vaccinated are furthering the mutational drive on the virus.

Finally, I will remind you that, a la Instapundit, I’ll believe it’s a crisis when the people who tell me it’s a crisis, act like it’s a crisis.

Masks? Social distancing?

Barack Obama birthday bash
Mayor Bowser birthday bash, wedding officiation
Dr. Fauci, baseball game
Gov. Whitmer, flight to FL.
Chris Cuomo, fake basement “quarantine”
Gov. Newsom, French Laundry dining

And on.; 8/8/21, 7:16 AM