I'd appreciate it if all readers would participate in this poll, whether you comment regularly, occasionally, or not at all.
April 4, 2021
I'm considering changing the approach to comments on this blog.
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647 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 401 – 600 of 647 Newer› Newest»And whether we shall meet again I know not.
Therefore our everlasting farewell take:
For ever, and for ever, farewell, commenters;
If we do meet again, why, we shall smile;
If not, why then, this parting was well made.
"I've spent a lot of time on lefty and righty blogs. I've never encountered this same dynamic of weird, obsessive loathing of the blog owner from the blog's own commenters. This is unique to the Althouse blog. It's less surprising that the haters of the head woman blogger are all men."
Again, thank you, Arturo.
Goodbye, fellow commenters !!!
I will go to Legal Insurrection and/or Powerline Blog.
"You are one of those I will miss the most."
Bob Boyd - the scarecrow of Althouse blog.
Cancel Culture strikes again! The Left-Wingers will be SO proud to see Miss Ann surrender to the Borg!
I will go to Legal Insurrection and/or Powerline Blog.
Look forward to your informative comments.
>>Ann Althouse said...
Time to say your goodbyes to each other. The comments will go dark very soon.<<
And who here didn't know that that decision had already been made?
Those who enjoy the best commentary/commenters in the blogosphere and wish to continue doing so with each other should determine a rendezvous blog just for the purpose of again congregating somewhere. Michael K mentioned that Aussie blog above, which I know nothing about. But it might be a good starting point. https://catallaxyfiles.com/ Maybe bookmark it and think about it later.
Just a thought...
So long- and thanks for all the fish.
"Maybe the problem isn't with the comments but with your need to do something everyday. Like 365 days of seeing the sun come up. Years and years of never missing a day blogging."
We live by days. I love living in the day. The blog is my record of the day. It's exactly the thing I love to do. Yet you tell me:
"Maybe take a day off. Blog 3 days a week insteead of 7. Or only make one blog post a day. You've retired. Maybe retire a little from the blog slowly, too. If your blog isn't attracting the community you want, amybe take some time off to reflect on how to build the community you seek instead of the one who sought you."
I'm doing exactly what I want to do. I'm not looking for a different way. I just need to lay down the burden that is the comments. I'm no interested in blogging less and looking for a different community. I'm not looking for group project, but self-expression.
“You don't realize that for many people, the comments make the blog LESS welcoming and friendly. There are people who WOULD read the blog but stay away because of what's in the comments.”
That’s very ... odd.
And what happens when a certain person discovers that appeasement never works?
"Other than that, Happy Easter."
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
None of your proposals would produce more interesting comments section than the current version.
I did not go back 50 posts to read the first three comments - I got maybe 25 or 30. I also made my first comment on this post without reading any of the comments, including Ann's. I did not realize it was the right wing posters that would get blamed. In my opinion, I suppose this is why the left will win in the end - a blog that I thought encouraged free speech and dialog is now blaming the right for the suppress of free speech and dialog.
I am surprised that you are dismayed that people think you are a progressive or libertarian or right winger - people will read what they want into your posts and comments. I had you pegged as a left leaning liberal with an open mind not afraid to allow others to state their opinions. I see that I was off - you actually do seem to be afraid of allowing others to state their opinions.
I figured there was no need to vote, that it is your blog and you will do what you want with it, as is your right. I will say, this is the only blog that I do make a point of reading the comments on those subjects that caught my eye. I will miss that if they go away.
"You don't realize that for many people, the comments make the blog LESS welcoming and friendly. There are people who WOULD read the blog but stay away because of what's in the comments."
With respect, I don't understand this. People don't come here because of the comments? If the comments upset them, why do they read them? It takes a affirmative act to enter the comments section.
What was sick was my obsession with internet commenting. I have always known that I have an obsessive personality. This kind of brings it home that I have to do better to keep it in check. I used this place as an outlet and that was not fair.
Probably the last thing I expected to read today, but there has been a lot of that lately. Thanks for the memories!
You lead the way, narciso. The search continues...
"I'd bet "Althouse" is like every other blog. That is, 95% never comment just read and lurk. >>>>The only reason to "lurk" is to read the comments. No one lurks reading a Dead Trees newspaper. And I doubt your readership would be cut in half, probably more like 15-20% >>>>so...Althouse, why not give it a go and see what happens?"
I will!
It really doesn't matter to me if the traffic falls to half or is only down 15%. I want to recover my time and eliminate the distraction.
I will miss reading the good commenters. That has been a pleasurable part of my day, but at least with this loss, I gain time.
And to Shouting Thomas:
There was no need to be so nasty and mean to Ann. Lots of speculation by you about Althouse. Not nice! It really pissed me off.
I'm afraid that I set Alhouse's decision in motion when I criticized her for smashing many paragraphs into one long paragraph when she quoted other writers.
I will apologize, but only if she will relent and continue her blog.
Otherwise, my criticism stands!
Good bye, friends. I learned a lot from you.
Fucking melt down.
Shitty, cold way to treat your long loyal readers and commenters. Not, me, I don't give a shit--found this blog when I was looking for a blog.
Blaming them--all of them--as a collective for your mental crisis is fucked up.
"Oh, Professor. If you offered moderator status to those among the majority of the commentariat, this would be a very different blog. It might even become more interesting. Driving off the fan base while the subhuman lunatics prowl outside for wrongthink is certainly an alternative strategy. Let's see if it pays off for you."
There is no way to give this function to anyone else, because it would make you an administrator of the blog, capable of posting on the front page and capable of deleting the entire blog.
As we come to a parting of ways, leave me to tell you a story. When I was a young man about to go out into the world, my father says to me a very valuable thing. 'Son,' the old guy says, 'I'm sorry that I am not able to bankroll you a very large start. But not having any potatoes to give you, I am going to give you some very valuable advice. One of these days in your travels, you are going to come across a guy with a nice brand new deck of cards, and this guy is going to offer to bet you that he can make the Jack of Spades jump out of the deck and squirt cider in your ear. But, son, do not take this bet, for if you do, as sure as you are standing there, you are going to end up with an ear full of cider.'
Stolen from Damon Runyan
>>Time to say your goodbyes to each other. The comments will go dark very soon.
That's sad, but understandable. To my fellow Althouse commenters, left, right, and center, farewell, and good luck!
Dan
There are people who WOULD read the blog but stay away because of what's in the comments.
Nobody goes there any more; it's too crowded.
"You've even turned Google ads on and off this year, and have openly stated you turned them off because, as you explained it, it let them get their fingers a little deeper into the blog."
False. You're misstating the facts. See? It's irritating to have statements made about me by people who are not reading me carefully. I don't want to be a platform for such crapola.
I remember and my reason for doing this has always been the same. I used to put it in the form of a motto: To live freely in writing.
I wanted to think in writing in public, and just the capability of being seen was enough. I've felt tremendous flow and intrinsic reward from writing about what I read and sharing drawings and photographs.
Yes, but you also gave that opportunity to other people. You emboldened people to express things that otherwise would have been left unsaid. That was quite a gift. Now I guess it's going away.
There's a problem with single-proprietor blogs. The feeling of ownership is strong and undercuts what has become for many a cooperative endeavor. The blog becomes personal and there's a need for positive feedback and reassurance that the commentariat doesn't often provide. Multi-owner blogs may fit in better with the collaborative/combative spirit of the internet.
Many people have a teasing relationship with authority and find it hard to express affection or gratitude, or maybe they express it through teasing relationships that aren't devoid of some vestiges of attachment. Remote or virtual relationships are bound to be ... well ... remote and with more irony and less heartfelt emotion than many would wish.
Anyway this opens up a lot of free time for me. I'm tempted to go back to the language courses I started at the beginning of COVID, though I don't really want to. They hector you too much with emails about how you will lose your 100 day streak if you don't take your lesson today.
But I get the feeling you will probably get bored and invite comments again someday. Until then.
Goodbye folks! Ann - I can appreciate how much time and frustration is involved managing the comment stream. I see comment sections being either dropped or restricted with many of the sites I visit and the trend seems to be picking up. I would have lost my patience with it years ago - you have some fortitude.
If you start up something comment free I'd read it - now that I think about it more I'd change my vote to 'no comments but we can email and you will feature the best'.
Give us enough time to find out where tcrosse and Bob Boyd are going to hang out.
I may start a blog I named after Slow Joe Biden. It’s www.ur2old.com That is a catchy name right! Coming soon to the internets near you.
Blogger Ann Althouse said...
""Prof. Althouse states she is concerned that the right-wingers may make this blog "unpleasant" for "progs." I'd guess, moreover, that she doesn't like that the cadre of belligerent, loud, and oafish right-wingers distort her blog such that it may be perceived as a right-wing blog space, and, more important, that their comments bring down the general tenor and quality of the conversation."
True."
OK. fair enough.
How about us conservative/ classic liberal commenters quit commenting for,say, a month and see if you enjoy those results. We do this voluntarily and you won't be forced to moderate.
I've got the self discipline. Any body else?
Your readership has fallen from 580,000 visitors in September to 325,000 in Feb. I think the main culprit is the cesspool of right-wing commentators with little tolerance for different views. What's the solution? IDK. Maybe a little more tolerance and acceptance of good-faith disagreement. It's on those who have hijacked this blog to help turn things around. Don't you owe that to Ann? Get your shit together and stop crying. Do you need a lesson on how to write an acceptable comment that still expresses clearly your view on the issue at hand?
The best posts in my view are those that highlight your razor sharp writing and intellect and they are often more apolitical. Maybe a solution is for you to tweak a little what you blog about. A little more of that. A little less of that.
Or retire from blogging and make real money with a subscription only podcast with interesting guests. You should have no trouble finding guests happy to get the fierce and friendly Althouse treatment. I'd gladly pay $19.95 per year to listen once a month or so.
I don't want to spend my time maintaining a safe space for right-wingers.
Yeah. We're the ones who need a safe space.
Good lord.
I voted “Other.”
One change I would make would be to limit individual commenters to about 3 comments per post. This would reduce some of the trolling and useless responses to trolls that log up the comments. This change should not affect people who have something meaningful to share.
Sounds like somebody misses grading exams. Have at it, Professor.
Quillette, folks. Interesting essays and a profoundly interesting and intelligent commentariat. Hasta la vista, Baby!
this perfection thing
is the enemy of good
it fucks us to tears
Ice Nine said...
>>Arturo Ui said...
"I've never encountered this same dynamic of weird, obsessive loathing of the blog owner from the blog's own commenters. This is unique to the Althouse blog. It's less surprising that the haters of the head woman blogger are all men."<<
Nonsense from a noob. The Althouse worship and sycophancy here ("our esteemed 'profesora'," etc) from those very men is rampant and often gag-worthy.
********************
This is just serving as an example of the Ann-hating I'm talking about.
"I see that perhaps what you want is not that those of us on right cease to comment, but that we keep our comments on-topic, civil, and fresh. I see that you want people to respect your choice of topics--this is, after all, a blog about what YOU find interesting and meaningful. And that respect extends to not denigrating your choice of sources. I see that you would like your commenters to use your perspective as a springboard to related observations that offer equally insightful, thoughtful and original ideas. Is this close to what you are thinking of? You said that you would like your load to be lightened. You cannot be expected to go around rapping knuckles with a ruler all the time. Perhaps those who comment regularly can take up the knuckle-rapping. Ask us to police ourselves--to politely remind each other that we are guests in your house and need to respect your desires. I know that I sometimes make comments of which I am not proud--a civil, well-place reminder from another commenter for whom I have respect would be of help, perhaps, to get me back on track. Perhaps that is more than you want to do, but it seems like a way to try to salvage the comments, which seem to be important to all of us."
Yes, this is close to what I want. I have asked for it many times. These comments threads have too many people who have no intention of giving me what I want. If 1% of the commenters are trying to do something else, it imposes work on me to find them and deal with them. I have to look and I have to think about whether to delete and I have to find the people whom I delete all the time. It's time consuming and it's negative. I just don't want to live with that negativity anymore. I want to travel light in the days I have left.
independent said...
Your readership has fallen from 580,000 visitors in September to 325,000 in Feb. I think the main culprit is the cesspool of right-wing commentators with little tolerance for different views.
**************
Yeah. Here and all over America. "right-wingers" are doxxing people, getting them fired from their jobs, and shutting down their blogs and websites for not having the "approved" opinions.
You know, like Twitter de-platforming none other than the President of the United States.
Yeah, it's WE "right-wingers who have little tolerance for other views.
S N O R T
Well, I've been working on a blog post on WWI and I come back to see the goodbyes. I feel the same way. I have enjoyed reading the comments, less so from the lefties but even some of those are good. Cook I have made fun of but he at least is honest. Some of the others, I'm not sure about. Some of you I already see at other blogs.
Obviously, I like the comments. But there's no way I would moderate such a huge number of comments if it were me, so I certainly don't expect someone else to do it.
I will miss them, but I don't blame you if you turn them off.
The only alternatives I see are:
(1) Someone writes a script, as tim in vermont described, that provides the automated moderation functions you need.
(2) Future posts go on a new website with better comment management software. This site stays up with all the past material.
When the comments go dark, there are certain commenters I hope to read elsewhere. We'll see if they can be found. I'll read this blog with or without comments.
Thank you, Althouse. I have enjoyed it.
This doesn't feel like Althouse is just trying to improve her blog. It feels like revenge. Emotional revenge.
You hurt me, now I'm going to hurt you! You'll miss me when you're gone!
I thought she had more class than this. Triggered beyond measure. I doubt this has anything to do with what she says is the reason.
"It was in an Althouse sunrise post that I saw the first glimmer of the color red after the drunk t-boned me and I lost my color vision."
That's very sweet. Glad to help!
"It seems Althouse has lost hope, or faith, or humor, or perhaps something I cannot quite put my finger on. It is sad."
I have lost my subservience. You don't have to be sad. I am in pursuit of greater happiness and more time.
independent said...
Your readership has fallen from 580,000 visitors in September to 325,000 in Feb.
Who knew that CNN was "right wing?"
I don’t think our host should be reluctant to ban commenters who are habitually abusive or disruptive.
Too bad. Loved the blog, loved the comments ncluding and sometimes especially from the thickest of commenters. I expect you will bring comments back in some form when the Amazon sales collapse. The point of the blog was the discourse even when coarse. But you should be proud of creating this “forum.”
Ann, a sort of outsider perspective here. I have been you reading you all but daily essentially since you started this blog, and one of the thing I long liked about it was the mix -- of topics, yes, but also of readers and of commenters. Every week it seems I'm digging out some book -- music, literature, mysteries, Chesterton, whatever -- and adding a particular phrase or angle to the comments. There aren't many fora still extant where I am given the impetus to do this, and even before the pandemic I've been leading a pretty damn isolated life.
Yours was one of very few places where the liberals more or less got along with the conservatives. Another was Megan McArdle's original blog, "Asymmetrical Information," back when she was writing as "Jane Galt" and was quite a bit more libertarian than she is now. A third is the Volokh Conspiracy. Well, Megan's "gone corporate," Volokh has too (though, tbh, Reason is a pretty un-corporate sort of corporation), and you've retired.
I will miss you.
"As noted earlier, I have the entire blog -- from the first post through 2018 -- running on a different platform (Drupal) on the computer in front of me. I can post links to screenshots, if anybody wants proof. If I can do it, there are a million other people who can do it. This doesn't solve your commenter conundrum, but if Google said it was impossible, they lied to you."
Noted.
Please understand that I cannot accept the help you offer me because I am too afraid of sabotage. I'm sure you're a nice person, but I wouldn't stake my life on it.
@1:28 the correct spelling is Jalen; not Jaleen.
And FYI, my avatar is an icon picture of Fr. Baltasar Gracian, S.J. who wrote “The Art of Worldly Wisdom.” I commissioned and own the original. The artist is the former Jesuit priest William Hart McNichols. You can purchase his art if you like icons. Not that anyone really cares.
I have always identified with you, Ann Althouse. We are of a similar age, etc. It is OK to do less at our ages. I love the comments here, but you are retired and need to change gear. I have noticed this frustration in the blog for some time. We love what you have done, but life is short. Eleanor is right: downsize.
tcrosse said "One of my proudest achievements is having been tagged and front-paged by Althouse."
Thanks tcross — you too are one of the commenters I will miss the most.
>>Louie the Looper said...
I don’t think our host should be reluctant to ban commenters who are habitually abusive or disruptive.<<
Um, Louie, hello...she just banned us all.
It was fun while it lasted. Thanks for the ride.
My solution:
1) Set a concrete goal
2) Ask is this goal achievable.
3) Figure out the detailed path re getting to the objective if it it achievable, otherwise shut down any effort re spinning wheels if you determine the goal is out of reach.
So:
1) Get back to a place where a bug types on a shitty keyboard.
2) Not possible.
3) Shutdown comments.
EZ PZ
Althouse (since that is what you prefer, I shall use that),
Yes--if you desire to travel lighter, trust that desire. Life can be unexpectedly truncated. Time we thought we had evaporates before our eyes. Then what regret we have for the fleeting seconds wasted on things that we feel degraded us, wore us down!
I had an event some years ago--the essential loss of a troubled son--that reduced my ability to deal with irritation and ass-hattery. My best friend, stricken with Hodgkin's, experienced the same. Now my sister, with terminal brain cancer, has found the strength to cut loose the unnecessary, the profane, the antagonistic.
I hope that your decision to do this has not come on the heels of a devastating event, but comes from simple insight and reflection on what you want going forward.
Happy Easter, Althouse. If I'm ever in Madison, I 'll email you and buy you a coffee.
So, it has taken me over an hour to scan through the 1st 400 comments and I am now reading that it will be going dark soon, but here is what I was going to post.
I read Althouse every single morning, even though most of the posts and comments were several hours earlier. I come to Althouse because her perspective/analysis on the 1st Amendment is close to mine. I'll continue to read those posts.
My annual support payment was because I wanted to support the ability of commenters to have a real-time discussion. I enjoy the evening comments w/others on the West Coast.
Moving quickly to find blogs by some of the others (DBQ, for one) before the connection ends. :-(
"Your readership has fallen from 580,000 visitors in September to 325,000 in Feb. I think the main culprit is the cesspool of right-wing commentators with little tolerance for different views. What's the solution?"
I don't know if those are the accurate numbers, but September was right before a presidential election, which always leads to a spike, and February is a short month. I don't think there's any particular cause to that variation. It's been a slow news time, what with the lockdown.
You ask "What's the solution?" without establishing that there's a problem that I even care about. I've seen traffic fluctuations on the blog for 17 years. Chasing traffic hasn't interested me since Sitemeter died (years ago). It can be a fun game, a way to keep score. But right now in my life, I really don't care.
And if I did care, I wouldn't sign on to the theory that traffic is down because of "the cesspool of right-wing commentators." The problem I'm concerned with is the burdensome work of moderation. I don't want the job anymore. It doesn't make sense for me to do it. I'm just one person and I'm trying to write the blog. If people had been respectful and helpful to me and to each other, it wouldn't have been a problem.
It has nothing to do with traffic. If you told me deciding to keep the comments would double my traffic or cutting the comments would cut my traffic 80%, I would not make a different decision. It's a nonissue for me, because I have been blogging for 17 years, I'm 70 years old, my sense of myself isn't dependent on the number of people looking at me, traffic is not a money machine, and I am not destitute.
So long as the blog keeps going I’ll keep reading. This is one of my favorite sites on the internet and has been for many years.
From an intellectual viewpoint, the death of the comments section is - at least to me - like the death of Rush Limbaugh.
I KNOW I comment too much, but it is/was enjoyable for me. Getting front paged was always a good moment and especially when Ann wrote a post about my daughter’s essay about the Humanities Building at UW.
Best of luck to Meadhouse. Thanks for the memories.
Que sera sera. Althouse will do what she will. It IS her blog and if it is not fun anymore or is even a burden I don't blame he.
I will miss the commentariat though
Linda Ronstadt Adios
..............
Going up north where the hills are winter green
I have to leave you
On the California coast
Going where the water's clear and the air is cleaner
Than the California coast
Our dreams of endless summer
Were just too grandiose
Adios
Adios
And I miss the blood red sunset
But I miss you the most
Adios adios
Adios
Adios
Adios adios
"Maybe a little more tolerance and acceptance of good-faith disagreement. It's on those who have hijacked this blog to help turn things around. Don't you owe that to Ann? Get your shit together and stop crying. Do you need a lesson on how to write an acceptable comment that still expresses clearly your view on the issue at hand?"
I agree, and I wish saying that could make it happen. I have tried.
"The best posts in my view are those that highlight your razor sharp writing and intellect and they are often more apolitical. Maybe a solution is for you to tweak a little what you blog about. A little more of that. A little less of that."
I have always had an aversion to politics. Commenters who are eager to get more political posts... they're not really my type of company. I never even turn on the TV news.
"Or retire from blogging and make real money with a subscription only podcast with interesting guests. You should have no trouble finding guests happy to get the fierce and friendly Althouse treatment. I'd gladly pay $19.95 per year to listen once a month or so."
No. Too burdensome. I prefer writing, drawing, and photography. I don't like fighting and arguments. I wish people were more fun-loving and companionable. Where's the love?
No more pudding for you!
"(1) Someone writes a script, as tim in vermont described, that provides the automated moderation functions you need."
Again, I have a fear of sabotage. I cannot accept script from someone who is not in my real-world trusted circle.
But thanks, Freeman. I will miss your contributions to the comments.
"I hope that your decision to do this has not come on the heels of a devastating event, but comes from simple insight and reflection on what you want going forward."
I'm fine. It's just that spring is here and I want to be out and about and the task of going into moderation keeps me too internet connected. I want to be free and alive in the real world.
I would like to see the ability to “reply” to individual comments, so that you could just skip any thread that degenerated into name-calling. But that’s probably Blythe not Ann’s call. Otherwise leave it; we can self-moderate.
I haven't gone away just yet. Isn't it a matter of percentages? 20% of any blog is going to be abuse of somebody or something, but one expects that and just discounts and ignores it. Or at least I do. Maybe it's different if it's your own blog, but I did find that in spite of all the feuding, comments here were more intelligent than on most other internet forums.
It may be unusual that some commenters are always ready to take on the blog owner, but the dynamic isn't unique. If you went to the American Conservative website expecting to have an American conservative conversation with other American conservatives, you would be surprised by the all the lefties who post there and seem to dominate the comments section. Things like that do happen in the Internet world. It's all about confrontation for some people. It's not personal at TAC. I don't think it's really personal here, either, but it's not me that it would be personal about.
Your readership has fallen from 580,000 visitors in September to 325,000 in Feb. I think the main culprit is the cesspool of right-wing commentators with little tolerance for different views.
Traffic on sites that are in anyway political is always higher in election years. That is how things are. And this is the boring Biden age. People aren't that motivated anymore. And really, intolerance goes both ways. If there are more people on the other side one may feel that one is the target of intolerance, but I don't see much tolerance coming the other way.
Thank you for generating all of the interesting topics for us, Althouse. I’ve always enjoyed the tangents that topics led you to - ie meanings of words, musical reflections, etc. Take care and enjoy your freedom from moderation. Be well.
Thank you as well, commenters. I’ve learned a lot here, and will miss most of the banter. Take care, all.
Pandemic appears to be in the end stages. Time for me to get outside...
I will miss the intelligent commentary. Looking ahead to the next iteration of the Althouse blog. Buena suerte.
My last comment on Althouse is to thank Michael K for his book recommendations. I for one think you're a treasure trove of knowledge and perspective, and very much appreciate your commentary over the years.
God Bless you.
I'm going to turn on moderation now and let you still comment — sort of bring it in for a landing. After a little while, I will turn off comments altogether. Thanks to everyone who tried to help me make blog commenting a rewarding, happy, creative endeavor.
MayBee said...
Happy Easter, Althouse. If I'm ever in Madison, I 'll email you and buy you a coffee.
—————
Now *that* is the spirit. Pitch perfect. We both have our email address in our profiles. Feel free. We’re real people with real lives and many of you we have met in person and enjoyed tremendously. If we don’t answer your email right away, please don’t despair— we’re likely on a mountain somewhere, on the road or at sea. Or just taking a nap.
Love God. Keep making America better and better. Call your mother. Be good.
I look at this blog as something of an office water cooler. If there is a post I'm interested in, I read it and may comment. Sometimes seriously, sometimes jokingly. I too have tired of insults and spam. But the limitations to control those problems seem mostly due to the platform "Blogger." Nothing came of the Althou.se project, and our hostess seems set in her ways. Fair enough. I was probably more set in my ways at 23 than she is at 70. So, ust to get a head start I'm signing out. No great loss for any of us. We'll see how the new regime plays out.
Thank all of you for the fun banter, and interesting takes. I will miss the people who commented here. I do see some of you in other places. Stay safe all!! Happy Easter!!
"Please understand that I cannot accept the help you offer me because I am too afraid of sabotage. I'm sure you're a nice person, but I wouldn't stake my life on it."
Up to you. If you ever want the data to move your blog to a platform that has the moderation features you want (which I thought you were longing for at the time), let me know. Somebody else would need to import the data and they could verify its integrity. And I am indeed a nice person. Thanks for a decade or so of mostly stimulating entertainment.
My last comment here is to say thanks to everyone who made this the place I wanted to go to discuss whatever was going on. It was fun. Best of luck to all of you, especially of course Althouse.
I’ve read this blog every day almost from the beginning. I’ve been impressed with the eclectic breadth of interests of our hostess and her very remarkable intellect. She is unique. One key feature here is that she has attracted and retained a very large number of readers and commenters who do not generally share her political views. That, in itself, is simply amazing!
If she terminates her comments, I will miss many of the folks here, including, without limitation:
- Laslo
- YoungHegelian
- lucid thoughts
- Mockturtle
- Freeman Hunt
- rhhardin
- r.r.
- temujin
- Pants
- Dustbunnyqueen
- Cook
...,and others. I made Althouse laugh one day, and she acknowledged a legal correction I offered her. It’s dopey, but if they ever tell my story, let them say that I walked with giants. She should do precisely as she chooses, and I wish her and Meade happiness and peace.
- Krumhorn
bye
I’m sadder and sorrier than is reasonable about the demise of the current form. I’m peripheral to this blog, but the blog is more than peripheral to me, or at least to me on the internet. Thanks to Ann and all you commenters, even the ones who drive me crazy. I’ll miss you.
"Protien Wisdom" anybody? Maybe we can prevail upon Jeff to give it another go.
Self censorship is the most insidious of all forms of censorship.
“... keeps me too internet connected. I want to be free and alive in the real world.“
A fine goal and I support it completely, and I wish more people had this attitude. Too much internet is not good for you, peeps!
There are a lot of comments on this blog that are a waste of space and time. It would be nice if people would actually try to write something interesting, rather than yell at each other or repeat the same old insults for hundredth time. If I knew how to achieve that without having to personally evaluate every post, I'd sell the method and retire a zillionaire.
If you think the comments here are bad though, try reading (e.g.) the WaPo's comments sections. They appear to be almost totally unmoderated and consist mostly of name-calling and repetition of the same tired claims, with maybe 5% (generously) worth looking at.
My vote is for Ann to pick the choice that makes her happiest. Don't do something you don't want to do because the commentariat voted for it.
My vote goes to "Other."
So, what might that be? For 10 years or so, I published my own blog. Hardly as popular as Althouse, but it maintained a decent standing in the top third of 20 million blogs on the Internet at the time. Mine was a Conservative blog that was squatted by Leftist Liberal Democrats. Moderation of comments was a real chore and the vitriol sometimes generated by commenters, Left and Right, became a concern for my mental health as I deal with anxiety and depression. What to do?
The "Other" I chose is an old joke. A man goes to his doctor and says, "Doc, my arm hurts when I do this." The doctor says, "Well, don't do that."
Reading the commands was a problem, so I stopped reading the comments. Eventually, I stopped having the comments sent to my email. I continued to write what I liked and wasn't bothered by the liberal leftist fruitcakes anymore.
Turn-off comment notification. I want to read what Ann has to say on whatever subject. Sometimes I am interested, sometimes not. That should not be her concern.
Like others, thre 2 makes ov which my comments were tagged in the front page were terrific. Those were around 10 years ago when I commented much more frequently. Frankly, just wading through the comments to find the gems is tiresome. I cannot imagine what's involved with moderation.
That said, I would like to thank especially the long time good-faith commenters who have informed me and amused me over the years. I will miss that.
And thanks Prof. Althouse. Il continue to read this as long as you write it.
What a loss. I'll keep checking in for the occasional etymology post, but the comments were the draw.
All comment sections become unbearable and stupid over time. This one had gone downhill, but is still the best on the Internet as far as I can see.
Dave Begley: thanks for the information on The Cloisters! You changed my life with that one! No exaggeration.
John Henry: Great book recommendations!
I guess I'll get more reading done now...
Chose to have Althouse pick the best. I feel change is coming and that curated “garden” might be the best of the walled garden options under consideration. I have substantial difficulty reading Althouse’s intentions and may have inadvertently shit on a post by missing the point. Some days this is the only place I write in my own voice. I love the blog as-is. But the workload sounds crappy for a happy retiree. I’ll come to read Ann regardless. But I must say this online community exists only here and it truly means a lot to me. I can’t imagine how our host’s feelings could ever be separated from her creation!
Whatever happens thank you Ann for doing this for so long! It’s a treasure.
I've wondered how much pressure you received from the woke scolds over your (ahem) lively comments section. I see severe restrictions being placed by Twitter, Facebook, and other platforms by the establishment left on most conservative expression. It has the taint of a religious crusade by the irreligious, such irony. Another irony for me is; I'm not a across the board conservative. Usually, I tend to be socially liberal, fiscally conservative, not in lock step with any group. Another, I have never voted for Donald Trump. It has always been about certain policies, not about cult. Which brings me to what I receive from visiting this site everyday. You have a innately curious mind on a variety of subjects, not just political. Also, artistically inclined. If this was only a blog about law, I wouldn't be here. However, even though I am "college educated", I consider myself somewhat of an autodidact, an intellectual magpie. I find the range of subject matter here interesting, even fascinating. But, ultimately, this is your blog, your life, your retirement. Your success with it has attracted an assortment of commentators; some well educated, experienced in careers I know little about, with a sprinkling of lunatics from the left and right. The bomb throwers I could do without, but the others I will miss.
Almost 500 comments in, but here is what I think, Ms. Althouse:
I voted for keep it as it is- the endless back and forth doesn't bother me- I scroll past almost all of it. However, given what you seem to want from the comments section itself, and I am basing this on the comment you made to the "Fast Car" thread earlier this morning, there is no choice but to moderate by either preapproval of comments before appearance, or have the commenters e-mail the comment to Althouse. Either of these is still about the same amount of work unless both methods reduce the willingness of the commenters to post comments, or try to, and I suspect that is exactly what is going to happen. Pre-approval in moderation would be my second choice if I were vote ranking.
But, I think if you really want what you said you want, you will likely need a new system other than Blogger for comments so that you can actually ban commenting IDs. Sure, people can create new IDs to beat a ban, but that takes time and effort to do these days, and it would be a significant barrier to deter them.
The Girl with the Pony-Tail on the Treadmill says...
I've got a high-school reunion coming up....
(swish-swish, swish-swish)
I don't think I'm going to go.
(swish-swish, swish-swish)
It isn't that I hated high school.... I just disliked it, that's all.
(swish-swish, swish-swish)
Although it would be funny to see them react to the old fat girl who now runs marathons.
(swish-swish, swish-swish)
I imagine most of them are out-of-shape now. The world changes.
(swish-swish, swish-swish)
But I think it would be sad to see people that were my best friends, and now we mean nothing in each others' lives, besides the the occasional memory.
(swish-swish, swish-swish)
Maybe I should feel bad that I lost touch.
(swish-swish, swish-swish)
(swish-swish, swish-swish)
I don't know: maybe I'm kind of ashamed of who I was back then.
(swish-swish, swish-swish)
Of course, I don't think I'd trust someone who wasn't at least a little ashamed of who they were in high school.
(swish-swish, swish-swish)
And, unfortunately, the Real World is too often like high school for my liking.
(swish-swish, swish-swish)
You pretend to like people, just because it's easier that way.
(swish-swish, swish-swish)
And I don't like a lot of people...
(swish-swish, swish-swish)
So the pretending gets harder.
(swish-swish, swish-swish)
Maybe I should just stop pretending. Maybe it doesn't matter whether I like people, or they like me.
(swish-swish, swish-swish)
I'm not sure how I would even do that.
(swish-swish, swish-swish)
Maybe I'm just the person I'm meant to be, and I am torturing myself by not just accepting that.
(swish-swish, swish-swish)
That's too dark for me to think about right now.
(swish-swish, swish-swish)
I'm running, I'm running.
(swish-swish, swish-swish)
Those kinds of thoughts are for when I'm in bed alone and can't fall asleep.
(swish-swish, swish-swish)
I'd like to be the kind of person who slept better.
(swish-swish, swish-swish)
I'd really like that...
(swish-swish, swish-swish)
I am Laslo.
Well, I will miss this. I rarely comment on anything but pop culture matters and came close to posting on the Miley Cyrus post the other night that I thought she was a Boss Chick, and now regret that I didn't. C'est la vie.
Ann Althouse said...
["When you started this blog you didn't enable comments. Do you remember why you started?"]
I wanted to think in writing in public, and just the capability of being seen was enough
Yes, this captures the early blog ethos quite well. It was dialectic instead of antagonistic and thus extraordinarily valuable for both the author and readers. But that ethos did not survive political activists corrupting the process because it threatened their control. Even Volokh, who I think retained that ethos better than any other, is different now.
I hope you continue to engage. Maybe it's good enough to slap down the shitting-on-the-blog comments for a while. I'd offer to help so this burden didn't fall on you but I'm sure you don't want to deputize someone who doesn't necessarily understand everything you dislike and who is likely part of the problem.
Ok, I see the decision has been made. Adios to all, and to all a goodnight.
God bless and thanks.
Appreciate the blog you've provided and I've commented off and on over the years, mostly off. I totally understand and appreciate your decision, though I may not like it on my end. If I'm being honest, the comments were what brought me here.
It was nice to have a site that even allowed right-wing or right-leaning commentary, since most of the rest of the internet is a mirror of the perceived problems here (especially now). So many places have disabled comments altogether, so I'm not surprised to see you follow suit. Can't say I blame you really. It sucks to see yet another site go dark in that regard, but you don't owe anyone anything.
Enjoy your blogging sunset.
Yikes...493 comments before I even get here!
Comments is why I come and, in these days of everybody shutting down their comments section, it's more important than ever. It was through this blog and the give and take of the commenters that I was not surprised to see the Trump victory in 2016. It's very valuable, IMO.
I am a big boy and scrolling down through worthless posts does not hurt my finger.
I think Ann or Meade could review the threads at their leisure and just use a word search feature for the troublesome N word or our infamous known trolls and wipe them out.
But if they don't, I can still use my brain to "separate the wheat...from the chaff". (Hat tip to David Crosby)
Althouse is really the only blog I comment on anymore, and I do that much less than before. The reasons I do it less are: 1) it occupies too much of my time, and 2) on-line opinion and free speech is getting dangerous due to the rise of fascism in our culture, technology, and government. Now there is no telling how some comment might get used someday by people who decide you are an enemy needing attacked.
What do I get from this blog? 1) I learn a lot from a lot of people. I learn obscure subject matter, news, and where to find information I find interesting or important, and 2) debating and writing comments helps me flesh out my thinking, distill it, edit and test it with smart people.
A pretty damned valuable thing if you ask me, but I would not do it if it took as much time and work as it seems to do for Meadehouse. For me the benefits are very convenient and effective, but it's not a burden, and I don't have think about it except when I want to.
Ann, if you want what you describe, I think you have two choices: no comments, or ban all who do not help create the place you want to have. That may require banning me, but no hard feelings. I can get repetitive and off topic like the best of them. I will probably only read here occasionally without commenters, but a select group would probably get me here as much as the current format does, whether I comment or not.
I picked “do something else”. The world evolves. And The Professor’s highest value is teaching us new things
A sad day. But it was coming, it just happened to be sooner than we expected. I will miss reading the comments, and the many great people who make it the place it is.
I have not been an active commenter for quite a while although I am a daily reader of the blog and especially the comments.
Thanks for the memories
Thank you. You are appreciated by many.
I picked “do something else”. The world evolves. And The Professor’s highest value is teaching us new things
And just like that—the Althouse commentariat is cancelled.
I cringed when Ann was attacked on this blog —if only there was a way to expunge the offenders without expelling the smart informative commenters. That said, Ann’s take on world events will keep me coming back for as long as Althouse blogs.
I wish more people here used this chance to link to their own blogs and writings. I have no shortage of places to visit, and they were more interesting than curating the NYT. Yet for all that, Ann Althouse struck me as personally interesting. I never quite knew if she would stay as a retired professor, or end up being some sort of Wisconsinite warlord. Not out of any conscious decision, of course, but simply because offering any level of freedom to American nationalists made her a target. She clearly doesn't think much of us, which reduces my regard for her in turn- even if I can still salute her determination.
I'm quite grateful to Meade for doing his best to exclude a particularly scuzzy and deceitful pedophile from Lawton, Michigan. Drago, Achilles, Shouting Thomas, Yancey Ward, Laslo, rhhardin, tim in vermont, Michael K... thank you for holding up the flag, and doing so more effectively than the vast majority of "conservative" media. I'd thank Ann for providing a sanctuary during a dangerous time, given that it will provoke serious hate from the Madison psychotics, but she doesn't seem to want it.
Either way, I hope I'll see you all around the Internet. Best of luck out there- as the contradictions of the Soviet Union destroyed it, so too will the contradictions of the Biden regime cause a far quicker self-destruction.
Good luck Althouse. I did feel the love in your writing and I loved what you created. God bless you and Meade. I’ll be reading you.
Thanks, and see ya tomorrow.
Regardless of what you do, Althouse, just know that you have an incredible accomplishment here. It was a tremendous effort and discipline on your part. Many of us grew intellectually from it in ways we never could have with out it. I was here for nearly 14 years. That was a lot of personalities to interact with and learn from, a lifetime of ideas covered, explored, and worked through with a diverse group of smart people. That was simply priceless to a lot of people. You made that happen. If you quit now, you still should feel very good about what happened here and how. It was amazing to me, but it never could go on forever.
I'll probably read more of what Althouse writes with the comments gone, so now that it's done, I think she's making the right choice.
I enjoyed messing with you people. I'm going to miss the popular and classical cultural references in the comments.
"It's less surprising that the haters of the head woman blogger are all men."
That's simply not true. In fact, some of the most ardent are female, and from both sides of the political spectrum. Just think about who they actually are, and I think you will come away with the realization that by percentage it's probably the opposite of your assumptions. At the very least it's not limited by sex or ideology. The commenters here are overwhelmingly male and conservative, so the denominator is pretty large for those groups.
I've only commented I believe twice, but I've read every post for... 8+ years? I just wanted to stop by and say thanks, professor, I've enjoyed your writing for a long time whether we agree or disagree.
Days up and down they come, like rain on a conga drum
Forget most, remember some, but don't turn none away
Everything is not enough and nothing is too much to bear
Where you’ve been is good and gone, all you keep, is the getting there
I'll miss the system here, the bottom's low, the treble's clear
But it don't pay to think too much, on the things you leave behind
I'll still read the blog.
Althouse doesn't think like me, at all. I don't mean I disagree with her, although sometimes I do. I mean she thinks differently. That's valuable to me. She notices things I don't, and I like that. I think she understands the world better than I do and she's smacked me down a couple times in the comments section over the years (not under this name- I changed it to protect my privacy.)
I'm a big believer in keeping things out of my head. I don't watch TV, and I limit my news intake. I get not wanting to deal with moderating crap all day. I'm a novelist, and if I had to put up with the peanut gallery shitting on my writing I'd turn them off, too.
Don't throw pearls to swine, as the Man said. That's what I think every time Althouse writes a pretty-good post and the first three idiots who comment either shit on it or want to talk about something else. I also hate the stupid name-calling. The blog ain't about you.
I've always tried to post only when it was something original or interesting, but more often than not, no one notices or cares. Maybe I'm boring.
The problem, I think, is that people want a reaction to their comments, and the easiest way to do that is to be negative. I think this is partly the fault of how Blogger does comments (no upvotes) and, well, the fact the comments section here started when Instapundit didn't have comments and this was the substitute.
I'm not going to offer any solutions, because there aren't any. I'll miss a few people, number one being Robert Cook. Never agreed with him about anything, but would be the best guy to have a beer with. Few others. Bye.
500! If it is approved.
Sorry, Prof, and all y'all.
Narr
Till we meet again
Prof., your posts are far and away the biggest reason I come here and I will continue to be a regular reader if you turn off commenting. But I also enjoy the back and forth of about 20% of commenters. I find about 60% of commenters harmless and sometimes amusing, and about 20% of commenters are time-wasting trolls. But I know who they are and can easily skip them.
What would be nice is comment nesting and the ability to edit my comments, like you get from disqus. But disqus censors. That’s not so nice.
Thanks, Althouse, for providing what was the best forum on the internet.
In saying adieu as a long-time lurker and only occasional commenter, I'd like to give shout-outs to some of the commenters of the past who I remember fondly. A few that come to mind immediately are Palladian, Theo Boehm, bgates, and of course the inimitable Chip Ahoy. There are many others, of course, but this isn't an Oscar acceptance speech.
Things come and they go, they rise and they decline--with the conspicuous exception of the consistently excellent comments of the great Paul Zrimsek over many years.
Thanks to all of those folks, and all the others who belong on that list, for many hours of witty and informative content.
Thank you, professor. I love your blog. It’s the first thing I read in the morning. I appreciate your variety of topics and your pictures. My mother grew up in Madison and always had fond memories of beautiful Lake Mendota. I will also miss several of the commenters, but I’m glad you’ve been willing to share what you love with all of us.
Happy Easter to everyone.
Wow. This is the end. And we even got one last fly-by of The Girl With the Pony Tail by Laslo. It's been a fun space. Fair winds and smooth sailing to all!
Perhaps have a once-a-week open comment section?
or a few times a month... ?
will miss this place and the fine people. love.
I set up a Discord server for anyone who wants to stay in touch. We can share links, chitchat, whatever. I'm new to Discord but I believe it can be useful in this context (for example Bret Weinstein & Heather Heying have a Discord server for their Dark Horse listeners). If you don't yet have an account at Discord, you can do it with a handle, not your real name.
(There are a number of you here I would trust with my actual identity, but I know we all have to be careful.)
Send me an email at misplacedpants@protonmail.com (include your Althouse handle in the body of your email) and I'll send you an invite. If I recognize you -- I have a very good memory for Althouse commenters -- and you're not a well known asshole, you're in. I like the nine years I've spent here in conversation with smart people from lots of walks of life, and I'd like to see it continue. The only way we save this country is by friendship and civil, interesting discourse; let's try to keep adding to that.
I'd really like to continue hearing what a lot of folks have to say: MayBee, Birches, mock, Dr. K, narciso, n.n, DBQ, Anne_I_Am, Crack, the Tims, cubanbob, Achilles, Browndog, Krumhorn, Hayden, the Mikes (Big, Original, Snoqualmie, Sylwester), Mrs. X, Begley. Lots of others who don't immediately come to mind.
I wish we could get Palladian and Kentucky Liz back, and many others, but them's the breaks.
Althouse, sorry to see comments go, but I 100% support you editing your life to reflect how you'd like to spend your remaining time. The most precious thing any of us has is our attention, and we have to be good stewards of it. If you want to write, and you don't care about commenters and are actively hostile toward a segment of them, well, fuck em. Life's too short.
Thank you for all the interesting conversations you've caused to happen over the years. I'm so much better for them.
Why doesn't Althouse NAME the "right-wingers" she objects to, and ban them/us?
It's HER blog, and she doesn't have to let anyone comment here, so....just ban them/us.
But it would be very, very interesting to know WHO she considers "right-wing", and I don't think she's willing to reveal her bias.
And, of course, who she blesses and allows to keep posting would itself be revealing.
Ain't happening. Too much shocking full-frontal self-disclosure.
One cannot top Laslo.
Perfect ending.
I am really sorry to see the comments go.
The blog is interesting but far more interesting are the comments.
It will not be anything like it is now. I'll probably continue reading because you are interesting. Just not as interesting as the commenters.
John Henry
Hey, the blog's not ending. Any change will be interesting. I followed Glen Harlen links
here years ago and emailed people links. I never read the comments. About 6 years ago
I started visiting here regularly and reading the comments. The comments. Wow. I wondered if the comments years before were similar and if the people I sent links read the comments.
I mean I now read all the comments and am fascinated and have been a regular reader for over 6 years but I have not sent any links. I suppose there'll be posts that I'll link to. To my leftie relatives and friends with the point being it's possible to be liberal and progressive without being batshit crazy. Gotta quote Hemingway. It happened gradually, then suddenly.
Very sad.
Perhaps I will start an Althouse comments blog.
I can't do it myself but what I see is a blog perhaps called Ahouse Comments.
Every day post the headline of every Althouse post with a link. I first thought the whole post but there are probably copyright issues.
Anyone would be able to comment subject to light moderation to avoid the obvious spam and excessive assholery.
I figure I'll need some help. Perhaps 6 other people, each moderating one day a week.
Anyone interested? Drop me a note at johnfajardohenry@gmail.com
John Henry
A Blessed Easter to the Althousians. I will miss many of the thought bubbles of the audience here, but I have wondered lately about the level of work it takes to shepherd such a project. I imagine it’s like living on a dairy farm. I too will benefit from less screen time as a result( bonus)
I like to peruse the forum over at bogleheads.org. They have what appears to be a small army of moderators that are uber efficient at cleanups. Just try to post something political or not actionable and see how long it takes for it to get removed/ locked. I understand that is not something Ms Althouse would prefer and I wish her and Meade all the best!
"I've spent a lot of time on lefty and righty blogs. I've never encountered this same dynamic of weird, obsessive loathing of the blog owner from the blog's own commenters.
It's bizarre to conclude the commenters here loathe Althouse. People are more likely to comment when they disagree so conflict always seems more prevalent than is the reality. But even so people disagree with Althouse (as we all do with everyone), they don't hate her. I'm shocked Althouse cited this comment positively. People are drawn here specifically because they appreciate her thinking so I find this sad, as if a massive misunderstanding is driving this.
Further even if it were true hating the blogger is not unusual. I read Dreher's blog (my purpose there and here is understanding whether libertarians and conservatives can ever ally) where at least half the commenters hate him and insult him in every comment. It's rare for any right side commentator to draw enough support to outweigh the hate.
Though I voted to continue the way it is, I just Althouse keeps in whatever format she finds most rewarding. There are many commenters that I make a point to read and they have come to seem almost like old friends. There are plenty I always skip also. Moderation must be a nightmare. Thanks for years of interesting reading pleasure, first thing every morning since about 2007.
If you don't want to moderate but would like to know when Ahouse goes live let me now that too.
I will use your email once to notify you and will then delete it.
Johnfajardohenry@gmail.com
John Henry
Are you able to ban frequent offenders? Google should give you the option if they are going to blame you for comments.
If not, I desire the status quo.
Otherwise, moderation (bleh).
It will be very hard for me to accept a reality in which, on the day that Donald Trump is indicted, I won't be able to post comments on an Althouse "Indictment Café" comments page.
Still, it is of some consolation to me that I survived the "Comments Era" of the Althouse Blog without getting a bullet in my head, as another commenter wished for me in the cheerily-named "At the Sunrise Café" thread on January 23. (Since deleted, after I reported it to Google/Blogger.)
Came for the intellectual honesty. Stayed for the cruel neutrality. And for the occasional Zappa. I never was as big of a Dylan fan as you are Ann, but I really loved that you made occasional hat tips to Zappa. And thanks for letting us add our little views of the topics, as predictable as are mine.
Mead, love the yard you’ve planted and designed at Ann’s house.
DBQ, never met you but somehow feel a kinship with you. You probably never knew.
Sally327 said...
The perfect is the enemy of the good. You have a really really good blog and a bit of that has to be attributed to the commentariat that gathers here for succor and nourishment. Is it perfect? No but no human endeavor can be.
This is my perspective as well. Althouse sees moderation as work, so let it go. Obviously some things are going to be posted she wishes wouldn't be, but we're all adults (are we?) and we understand it can't be her responsibility.
I suppose she'd say I'm willing to accept the loss of people she values because I don't care about them the way she does (which is true). But people who do this are finding an excuse. If it's not this it will be something else. If they really wanted to engage her ideas the comments would not be a deterrent. So I don't find this a compelling reason for action.
I'm sorry to see it go.
Why should I write for people who can't hear me?
You shouldn't, of course.
Maybe commenters are like plants in your own garden. Tend the ones who reward you, and over time, shape the garden content to maximize such rewards.
Complaining to the plants doesn't seem likely to improve anything.
Hey Daskol,
Now that the plague is lifting, email me at younghegelian@gmail.com & we'll go raise a little hell in lovely MoCo, next time you're about.
Ans anyone else who feels so inclined, drop a line for meetings, virtual or in meatspace.
On this Easter Sunday, remember, we shall all meet again.
Well, damn. Following my habit of reading all comments before commenting, so as to avoid looking stupid, I end up in moderation, or worse.
Was interesting to see the first only insult leveled in order to engage in back and forth was by far left Arturo. Even dastardly Chuck escaped retaliation.
Anyway, will definitely miss comments. Will attempt to allay my sorrow with fresh pecan pie from local bakery.
Not as good as whats-her-name's homemade, but will have to do.
All good things must come to an end, the really shitty stuff goes on forever.
Good by and best wishes to all. It's a new day.
Ironically, it is in these Comments that the underlying reason for this discussion is revealed. Althouse does not want to be associated with "right-wingers." Nothing new there... we routinely get run off of media sites. May the intolerant tolerants rule forever! Au revoir!
Drama at this venue over the years is almost always on Sunday.
She Is Riven
Actually the only place to hear Firesign Theatre quotes. Buwaya was right after all. Happy trails!
I'm unhappy about this, but... I don't have to do the work.
I hope to see some of you over at neo (I tried to post the link in the format that would open it in a new window rather than replacing the content in this window - but Blogger wouldn't let it stand that way. I tried. I apologize.), where the commentariat, as here, is a significant part of the meat. Of course I'm not suggesting anyone give up her daily Althouse habit, but for those who want a more interactive experience, Neo made the decision awhile ago to post a little less frequently so that dealing with the slings and arrows of a freewheeling group of commenters wouldn't overwhelm her.
John henry said...
Perhaps I will start an Althouse comments blog.
I figure I'll need some help. Perhaps 6 other people, each moderating one day a week.
Anyone interested? Drop me a note at johnfajardohenry@gmail.com
Review the comment history here:
It's been done
The result was hundreds of comments shortly after the transition, tapering off to death in 6 months or so. Of course part of that was because Althouse re-opened comments, maybe this time is different.
To "I Have Misplaced My Pants" and "John Henry" - Thanks for offering to help carry on the tradition -- one way or another!
Althouse: Your readership ain't going anywhere. Except to comment, maybe.
Still open? I'm surprised that the Prof chose to highlight and reward Ui, who claims to know how strangers on the Intertubz voted decades ago. It casts a different light on my participation here, and suggests serious misjudgment on my part--while taking some of the disappointment away.
Those who have posted addresses for the ass. mult., I'll probably take advantage.
Narr
Don't say you weren't warned
I’ll miss many commenters, I learned a lot from them.
Laslo, thank you for that last ponytail post. To this day when I put my hair up, I hear "swish-swish" and think of you.
Prof. Althouse & Meade, I've been here pretty much every day (rarely comment the past five years or so, only because I usually only have my phone and it's a pain to post from) and I'm going to miss you and all those here dearly.
I wish everyone all the best.
p.s., Meade, I was too shy to email about getting a rat sticker for my car, is it too late to get one?
Bye Howard, I’ll miss you the most. You’ve made me laugh, chuckle and guffaw many times over the years. Your sharp witty commentary was always a pleasure to see op upon the comments sections.
And thanks to Bruce Hayden for the gracious compliment, I’ve enjoyed your comments over the years and respect your honesty.
I won’t say goodbye to Althouse, because I have no intention of not stopping by and reading her blog posts, thanks for all the hard work and insights over the years. I hope the rest of your blogging years gives you deep satisfaction, life is too short to not strive for what you want.
Thanks for all the glorious sunrises! I hope we can continue to see your photography, maybe a year of sunsets? Whatever you choose, it’s been a treat.
"You don't realize that for many people, the comments make the blog LESS welcoming and friendly. There are people who WOULD read the blog but stay away because of what's in the comments."
Like others have posted, it's hard to understand this statement in light of the fact that it's so easy to avoid them. Other than "below the fold" posts, you have to click on the comments to see them. To me it's supremely ironic that this statement would be made on the day that he resurrected who was in part condemned because he associated with those the good people disliked as unclean. Not saying you're God. Not saying you should be some sort of sacrifice. Just noting the irony.
Goodbye all. I'll miss this.
I knew this would happen.
(also the epitaph on my future tombstone)
bagoh20 said...
"It's less surprising that the haters of the head woman blogger are all men."
That's simply not true. In fact, some of the most ardent are female, and from both sides of the political spectrum. Just think about who they actually are, and I think you will come away with the realization that by percentage it's probably the opposite of your assumptions. At the very least it's not limited by sex or ideology. The commenters here are overwhelmingly male and conservative, so the denominator is pretty large for those groups.
***************
Impressive how you started out denying that the majority of Ann-haters in the comments are men, and then ended your comment by agreeing that the majority of Ann-haters in the comments are men.
I'm sorry to see comments go. I hope it's not permanent, but I'm not sure if I've had an original comment in a while, although I've enjoyed how you're always finding things of interest.
I really wasn't going to say anything, but I noted this comment --
Amy Welborn said...
As is the case for others, comments are a major reason I come here. I am interested in about 50% of what Ann posts, and in those posts, I always find comments that add more interesting information and perspective. I don't follow posts all day. I pop in at the end of the day, see what posts interest me, and then scan the comments - honestly - for length and commenter. I pause at longer comments (not walls-o-text, though...) and the avatars of certain commenters.
I noted it because Amy is a well-established blogger in her own right, although sadly not as big as she used to be. AND she is actually a well-sold author of real books.
And it appears that she write simply because she has something to say. And although there are no longer as many comments as back in the day (I think Francis has something to do with that), it reads more in the form of discussion, rather than professor standing up there talking AT people. Agree, don't agree, she doesn't demand or expect affirmation. She does, however, seek to teach.
Well, commenters too can serve the teaching function. And, to be honest. that teaching is sorely needed here. As someone who is on the left, AA is naturally going to have an opposite view of some people. So it is natural that some will respond in a contrary way. THAT'S CALLED DIALOGUE. It is called the free marketplace of ideas. And such discussion is greatly needed, rather than being talked at, especially when the talking at is in such sore need of correction. Which AA sadly too often is in need of. Sadly more, not only are too many of her assertions wrong, they are frankly offensive and bigoted. SO, yes, there will be pushback.
But, AA does have her name at the top of the page and she does administer the page. BUT she does not "own" this blog, and she is not "paying" the bill. This is BLOGGER'S website. It is owned by GOOGLE. All of us -- AA included -- are squatters.
But, do whatever you want. All of you. However, about the sentiments expressed -- WE ALREADY KNEW what AA thought of her commenters. Even when she tried to hide it in passive aggressiveness. However, people should know that when someone counters back with a comment, sometimes it is simply snapping back in kind, sometimes they can be an asshole in such responding (I confess sometimes I am), but sometimes there really is a desire to lead the other person to the truth (and this is usually my desire, even if said in heated rhetoric). Sometimes dissenters to the leftist orthodoxy do really want the good for their leftist neighbors. Some don't appreciate that though.
We won't miss self-absorbed Chuck. I speak for all.
I wouldn't be here if it were not for the comments. I think Ann Althouse writes and reasons well but I like the ability to respond and react with my own thinking. I also think there are many people in the comments that are worth reading.
And the other side of that is that there are some people here that I'd rather not hear a word from.
I don't come here every day. And in this case today I'm wondering if there is a context to this that I don't know about. And probably there is.
I suspect that if I had to be here every day, I would be much more irritated by some people. It's probable that my ability to take breaks from this, and get away from certain things, greatly increases my enjoyment of the blog.
But when I put myself in Ann Althouse's shoes and imagine having to deal with certain things, day after day, I can imagine getting vastly irritated.
I don't think any solution that involves moderation is a good solution. That just takes too much time and it is just too much work.
In my imagination Ann enjoys writing her articles and commentary, and although there are days when I'm sure that is not quite true, that part of things is more or less it's own reward. Or at least so I imagine.
But trolls are a problem. One dedicated troll, or several dedicated trolls, can ruin a free-speech forum. By troll, I don't mean someone who writes things I disagree with, although of course some people irritate me, and if I were moderating, it would be easy to drift into censoring people that I disagree with rather than blocking only the trolls.
But the difference is that a troll tries to shut down a forum by filling it with nonsense.
It is very difficult to draw an exact line that defines what is acceptable and what is not. But part of it is does it feel like there is a thinking person with something to say behind the words? And another part of it is about the sheer amount of repetitive comment a putative troll is making.
On the other hand, everyone here has certain favored subjects and certain favored ways of thinking, so that if you've read them long enough, you may feel like you know what they are going to say beforehand.
But that is just the reality of where we are, and it is I think to a greater or lessor degree true of all of us.
Thank you
Adieu, I guess.
Have been reading the blog and comments since well before the 2008 election. Rarely commenting, and never on political stuff. Some (but not all) cultural resonance with Althouse, since I am just about exactly three years younger and grew up through a lot of the same stuff.
Both blog and comments are very different today than they used to be. Both were more interesting w/o a lot of the political stuff (and people who insist on inserting the political stuff in response to the non-political posts) that geared up in recent years. And tiresome with people just saying the same political things over and over on every other, if not every post.
Like the overwhelming majority, I voted for option 1. 2 and 4 didn't seem appealing at all and also seemed a lot more burdensome for Althouse (though they might have created a disincentive for posts that Althouse would need to moderate). 3 seemed more OK, but, again, more burdensome for Althouse and with "comment deserts" interrupting the flow of things.
There are hints that at least part of the problem is the lack of moderating tools on Blogger. For example, commenters who are banned could, you know, actually be banned, so that Althouse wouldn't need to clean up after the fact. Also agree with a couple of comments that threading would be an improvement: easier to skip over stuff and also easier to figure out WTF people are sometimes talking about.
As I said when I retired from my law firm after 40+ years at the end of last year, the party's over. So long, and thanks for all the fish.
--gpm
I don’t come for the comments, and I’d like you to do whatever is most likely to allow you to keep blogging. I listen to the SubBeacon podcast and they’re having a similar issue - with negative comments on their Patreon threatening the show.
Let commenters start their own blogs, and have a blogroll with their links, if you really want to give them some sort of connection to your blog. Don’t spend your time weeding. Focus on the garden.
You are one of those I will miss the most.
Thank you.
God bless you Ann Althouse.
I really like this comment by Arashi. I agree with all of this:
"I have been reading Althouse for years and do occasionally comment. I do not read all of the posts as sometimes the subject matter is not something I am interested in, though I generally scan all the posts. I voted to leave the comments alone. When I read the comments, I have found that there are a few folks who really are not looking for a conversation, they are just pushing some narrative of their own and are using this blog as a vehicle for their views. These folks I tend to just scroll past.
"I found in the past that when moderation was on, I came here less and less, as it was no longer the very lively place I had come to appreciate. Instead it generally turned into another echo chamber of the like minded, and not the give and take of different points of view - which has been the great thing about the comments section and one of the great things about the blog, along with the variety of posts that cover a wide range of topics.
"I am not sure what Ms. Althouse truly wants the blog to be, and what she wants the commenters to be. If she is looking for folks who agree with her and find all of the 'cues' in the post and shout wowzer, and comment on how wonderful it all is, then I am not sure why she would bother. Taking the time and effort to create a blog such as this, only to hear oneself, would be fairly narcissistic I think, and I have never gotten the impression that Ann Althouse is narcissistic. I do not agree with her point of view on all things, and do not wish to live in a world where everyone thinks as I do -- that would be insane. Being challenged to think and re-evaluate ones positions is a necessity for all people. Only every hearing your own thoughts is dangerous.
"I do think that there is pressure from various corners demanding that all speech not supporting the leftists, progressive narrative be expunged - we see cancel culture in operation on a daily basis. I also think that Ms. Althouse is getting pressure, and that, coupled with finding the blog not meeting her expectations and desires (though in fairness, has she clearly expressed what these are, or are we expected to figure it out or go elsewhere?) has made keeping the blog going, needing more work, not what she expected in retirement.
"If the comments go, I'll check in from time to time, but eventually will not bother as the comments make the place a lively community. Without them, I feel it becomes just another thread of the 'narrative'.
"But whatever is decided, thanks to Ms. Althouse for the varied posts, pictures and comments over the years."
I commented -- a week ago, maybe? -- and said what I would've said today. I don't know if anyone responded.
Good for you. Know your mind and act on it.
Cheers, Meadhouse.
Lawrence Meade
Very much enjoyed our occasional exchanges.
Highest regards and all best wishes.
You must be a hell of a guy to be with a woman like Althouse.
Althouse said...I am unhappy with the way right-wing commenters have squatted here and made it unpleasant for other people. I don't want to spend my time maintaining a safe space for right-wingers. I'm not even a conservative. I'm just someone who wanted the full range of discussion, but this is not happening. This is a relatively small group of right-wingers bent on owning the space and excluding others. I am not here for that.
I’m w/MockT- whom I’ve known for years from another blog and was thrilled to read here.
I appreciated this-
But I’m not changing my tilt...
ps - I hope u find what you’re looking for, Althouse.
At last we know the answer to "what happens if her does not get her way?" )))
And thanks to Laszlo for the final "The Girl with the Pony-Tail on the Treadmill."
--gpm
“It will be very hard for me to accept a reality in which, on the day that Donald Trump is indicted, I won't be able to post comments on an Althouse "Indictment Café" comments page.”
And when you do find what you’re looking for, Althouse-
Enjoy it ...
I'm not going to name names but there are many, many people here, that have commented, that I'm going to miss.
I would very much like to know where various commenters will be moving on to.
I know people have left links in the past to other forums. But I've not followed them up since I only have a certain amount of time for this sort of thing and Ann Althouse's blog has fulfilled that need for me for years now.
Anyway, I'm going to miss this. And I'm going to miss many of you.
And thank you, Ann Althouse. I have enjoyed your website greatly. And I have the enjoyed this special space that you have created and maintained, for so very long.
This sucks.
There are so many good commenters, people much smarter and better educated than myself.
It was an honor to participate with you. I've really valued the time I spent here.
I'll miss you.
Shit.
Best wishes Althouse.
Maybe I'm hallucinating, but I think I actually got a response from Althouse on at least one of my cultural posts. Made my day.
--gpm
Flipping a coin each morning to determine if comments are on or off for that day would reduce the workload by 50% without completely changing the character of the place.
For those of us who wish to set up our own blog platforms, will there be a trackback feature? There are a few commenters here whose observations will be of interest to me and though I have bookmarked those who are actively posting their own content, others who don't use Blogger to do so might have opinions that I wouldn't mind reading.
Last!
Thank you. Learned a lot and was entertained even more. Godspeed to you.
Professor, I will be sad to see the comments gone, but you have to do what is best for you. I recently deleted my Facebook account because I found that it stopped being personally rewarding. I have read your blog for years, but only started commenting in the past year, I think in part because I consider the tenor of the conversation better than what I have found elsewhere. I appreciate your cruel neutrality and critical eye, and I will say that both your blogging and the comments section have been thought provoking to me. I don't think I have been participating long enough that anyone has any affection for my contributions, but I will certainly miss the commentariat that has become a part of my daily reading, and the only place online where I feel compelled to participate. Best wishes to everyone, and Anne- I hope that you are able to regain control of the blog in a way that is rewarding for you.
Of course capital C Chuck has to spew Trump obsession one last time, later fool!
Best wishes Althouse crew!
I have enjoyed commenting here. Thank you.
Sorry to see the comments go.
And thanks to all who made the effort to say something interesting.
And a big fuck-you to those few trolls.
And to those who could not resist feeding the trolls, you are why we can't have nice things.
Good for you, Althouse. Go and enjoy life. I get it.
I'll read the blog with or without comments. Thanks for all you've done over the last 15+ years.
-Craig
rcocean said...
Bob Boyd - the scarecrow of Althouse blog.
I don't know what that means. I can only assume it's a heartfelt compliment. I mean, why wouldn't it be?
But anyway, it got me thinking. IIRC, the scarecrow in The Wizard of Oz never actually got a brain, just a diploma. Which is a tale for our time.
A time of pyromaniacs, made of straw, running everywhere with torches.
I've liked your comments over the years, rc. I always read them.
Good for you, Althouse. Go and enjoy life. I get it.
I'll read the blog with or without comments. Thanks for all you've done over the last 15+ years.
-Craig
Disqus?
Ann Althouse asked, "What is it that you are getting from the comments?"
I came here to have fun and I did.
I read because I'm interested in what you have to say. I started reading many years ago and was much more conservative than I am now. I appreciate an intelligent perspective that's different from my own. Your commenters typically do not provide that (or maybe the nationalistic, homophobic and misogynistic trash that often passes for thought in the comments section has got me willing to throw out the baby with the bath water). I voted for moderation with you publishing what's not ignorant claptrap, but if I were you, given the time that would take, I'd probably just get rid of them if I ever arrived at the point where I was ready to acknowledge how stupid and mean spirited they often make conservatives look.
So long and thanks for all the fish.
I was struck by this from Althouse: "I don't want to spend my time maintaining a safe space for right-wingers."
Right-wingers are not the ones who want safe spaces. We are happy to battle it out in the marketplace of ideas. The leftists who post here, to their credit, don't seem to want safe spaces either. The one who seems to want a safe space is . . . Althouse. That is her right, but it's too bad she doesn't seem to value what she created.
Imagine a business model in which the supposed "content provider" can rely on scores of intelligent, interesting people to provide content FOR FREE! And they are now told they are no longer welcome (I guess that's the message -- I haven't actually seen it on the blog). @Althouse: You've done this from time to time; I guess because of a personal sense of insecurity. I'm tired of this carp. If you grow up, post something on instapundit and maybe some of us will come back.
Splooge Stooge II, Electric Boogaloo.
She'll put the comments back on in a couple months, just like last time. Despite her nonsensical denials, she likes that filthy lucre from the ad traffic.
If this is the final post with comments, let me just say that Chuck and Inga can both go fuck themselves, one last time.
Arturo Ui,
Impressive how you started out denying that the majority of Ann-haters in the comments are men, and then ended your comment by agreeing that the majority of Ann-haters in the comments are men.
No, bagoh20 was responding to a post (one of yours, I think) stating that ALL of the "Ann-haters" in the comments were men. As he correctly countered, that isn't true. "All" isn't "the majority." What he goes on to say -- that most of the people here are male and generally conservative, so that on any issue at all, you're likely to find more men than women here -- is also correct.
I am a conservative woman who doesn't hate Ann, FWIW.
I commented earlier and Ann responded but I wasn't very clear. I'm with Ann on this. If were her, that last thing in the world I'd want to do is spend time moderating worthless comments and messing with spam. I estimate that about 1 in 15 comments adds any value to this blog. Sorry everyone, but that's my opinion. If Ann can spend more time writing and publishing photos and whatnot by getting rid of comments, well I'll miss Laslo and Yancy. But I come here for Ann.
Pants - tried to set up the Discord account; received a "welcome back - log-in" window but then didn't recognize me. :-(
Will keep trying and if/when successful, I will email you. I don't comment often - but enjoy reading them.
Ms. Althouse, thanks again. I'm delighted for you in your decision to lighten your load. Be well. Stay safe. Laugh more. Remember to look around you. It's really a beautiful world. I think you know that. My best to you and Meade for all the years going forward.
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