[F]ederal law enforcement officials said, no evidence emerged that the Proud Boys had plotted murders, kidnappings, gun crimes or — apart from Jan. 6 — insurrection. Yet the Proud Boys’ belligerence fit the definition of terrorism, other officials said: unlawful violence and intimidation for political aims. Members raised money to travel across state lines to dozens of rallies with the intent of street fighting....
“If the Proud Boys was not a white male chauvinist club but a Black male chauvinist club, I think that, sadly, we would have seen a different policing posture,” said [Elizabeth] Neumann, the former Homeland Security official....
Critics argued that... arrests were rare because police generally favored the Proud Boys over their left-leaning opponents....
Posts
137 comments:
Isn’t the head of the Proud Boys black?
That kinda refutes them being a white chauvinist club doesn’t it?
If the Proud Boys was not a white male chauvinist club but a Black male chauvinist club, I think that, sadly, we would have seen a different policing posture,” said [Elizabeth] Neumann, the former Homeland Security official....
Is that evident? I don't think so.
Antifa seem to be a protected species of white males, at least in Portland. Why are they coddled and encouraged?
But the destructive and VIOLENT Antifa is "just an idea". Got it.
And they wonder why Americans are laughing at them, and pointing out the hypocrisy when they call NON Peaceful Demonstrations, where they are burning down cities as PEACEFUL...and they call what happened with ANTIFA who broke the windows of the Capitol to get in gets blamed on Trump supporters who while they were there were calling them exactly what they are. The FBI close their eyes and claim, we didn't SEE that. There are videos to prove it. The AUTHORITIES are causing the division they see in America but they are too dumb to realize it.
Funny how the narrative continues unabated, not just without evidence, but in spite of the evidence. We live in a gulag.
Why don't we hear that Antifa engages in terrorism then? You can't say it about the Proud Boys without saying it about Antifa. Fail to do that, and your credibility drops through the floor.
So much bullshit, so little time. The only violent death was an unarmed white woman shot by a cop. Some attack.
Mattman26 said...So much bullshit, so little time. The only violent death was an unarmed white woman shot by a cop. Some attack.
Are you sure the coward was a cop? Could have been a hired goon for one high-placed Senator or House Rep. But we'll never know for sure so the speculation must reign.
Axios
NEW: Federal prosecutors have requested a delay in cases related to the Jan. 6 Capitol riot, citing it as "likely the most complex investigation ever prosecuted by the Department of Justice."
DOJ insisted every case would be tried in DC. Defendants have been transported to DC, charged with excess crimes, denied bail, held in solitary confinement and now DOJ wants to violate Speedy Trial act to build their cases. Their “conspiracy” charges are an absolute joke:
-Julie Kelly
"[F]ederal law enforcement officials said, no evidence emerged that the Proud Boys had plotted murders, kidnappings, gun crimes or — apart from Jan. 6 — insurrection."
Can't let go of that "insurrection" nonsense, I see.
Do the Proud Boys start fights, or do they only respond when attacked? If the latter, they should not be considered terrorists -- they may have "raised money to travel across state lines to dozens of rallies with the intent of street fighting", but only in the sense of being ready to fight with people who were predictably going to attack those rallies anyway.
Can't let go of that "insurrection" nonsense, I see.
I think it's a legal term of art which must remain in place in order for the highest of charges to stick. If you look, you see this all the time. Cf. how Hillary got away with her alleged crimes.
Wasn't the head of the Proud Boys, Enrique Tarrio, a confidential informant for the FBI?
Why, yes. Yes he was:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/roberthart/2021/01/27/report-proud-boys-leader-was-a-prolific-fbi-informant/?sh=203ce6202577
I believe Proud Boys do have dogmas and an ideology. When asked I have heard it's members consistently say that they are a Western chauvinist group. They believe that not all cultures and civilizations are equal and that broadly speaking Western culture/civilization is the best. They also appear to advocate for self-improvement in individual members of their group, as well as advocating the benefits of the qualities of toughness and resilience.
As LBJ famously said, "Don't pee on my leg and tell me it's raining."
Outside of Pelosi Palookaville this stuff doesn't wash.
Compare with all those who destroyed property in dc four years ago, all were aquitted 1/3 of the spring terrorists had their charges dismissed and the reign of fire is still going on in portland.
We will learn a lot about the health of the country's civic nature with the judicial disposition of these January 6th cases. If, as I suspect, everyone of these defendants is railroaded into federal prisons, then the country itself is finished. It will be civil war within a decade. If the judges, regardless of who appointed them, do their jobs properly, almost all of these charges except for vandalism and simple assault should be summarily dismissed.
"The AUTHORITIES are causing the division they see in America but they are too dumb to realize it."
Wendybar--They are well aware of it, and are not dumb. They are doing it on purpose.
I remain skeptical of this narrative. Maybe legal proceedings will be persuasive.
Meanwhile, anything new on poor Officer Sicknick's death? They'd love to hang that one on the Proud Boys. If he died of natural causes, we may never know anything more.
And how about Ashli Babbitt? Anyone offered any reason why that Capitol police officer fired on an unarmed civilian for trespassing? I don't think we are ever going to get to the bottom of that because no one is looking.
I am not confident in "the authorities." The highest levels of the military (filtered via Obama) appear to be poltroons. Law enforcement has gone doggo.
A reminder
https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2021/03/varieties_of_legal_corruption.html#.YE3xemdskMM.facebook
There is only malfeasance in this whole process
https://www.revolver.news/2021/03/fbis-ridiculous-capitolsiege-pipe-bomb-video-is-an-all-out-assault-on-common-sense/
From the article...
To pre-empt violence by other far-right groups, federal authorities have often used a tactic known as the “knock and talk.” Agents call or confront group members to warn them away from demonstrations, sometimes reviving past criminal offenses as leverage.
I guess what they say is true. For some people there are no bad tactics, only bad targets. I'm assuming that all but the dimmest and the most fervent believers on the left can see how the standards and rhetoric used in the article could easily be used to call any lefty protest that develops into criminal activity as an act of terrorism. I'm assuming he is persona non grata on the left now, but hopefully more people on the left read Glenn Greenwald and the articles he has written about the dangers of a new push against "Domestic Terrorism".
Michael P,
Yes, that's right. They're provocateurs, certainly, but they aren't going out there to clobber people who don't attempt to clobber them first. And as there's an endless procession of people who do want to clobber them first, it happens a lot.
As for "traveling across state lines," and even (gasp!) raising money to do so, that's the only way to get to DC if you don't already live there, yes?
"A bloody path"?
Ashlee's Blood is asking - who killed her and why?
"NEW: Federal prosecutors have requested a delay in cases related to the Jan. 6 Capitol riot, citing it as "likely the most complex investigation ever prosecuted by the Department of Justice.""
Unlike Russia! Russia! Russia!, this one caught the FBI by surprise. It takes time to manufacture that evidence.
As you see the official involved was part of the coen bros militia escapade.
Journalism is pretty much dead in the USA these days. It needs to be resuscitated, stat.
Freeman said..
Why don't we hear that Antifa engages in terrorism then? You can't say it about the Proud Boys without saying it about Antifa. Fail to do that, and your credibility drops through the floor.
Bingo.
John Sullivan IS antifa and he WAS at the Capitol with others. yelling "lets burn this shit down". and we are told he is merely a "journalist"
Blogger Michael P said...
Do the Proud Boys start fights, or do they only respond when attacked?
I would be surprised if many have not started fights. I suspect it isn't the usual tactic, but the likelihood of them just merely being innocent protestors/counter-protestors and then every time there is an altercation it is from some agitated lefty seems pretty low. That being said the question shouldn't be who started fights it should be whether it is a tactic taught and advocated by groups. Only if it is a tactic taught and advocated by the group organization should government action investigating the group occur legitimately. I strongly doubt the Proud Boys as an organization teaches or advocates for its members to start violence. I strongly doubt Black Lives Matter as an organization teaches or advocates for its members to start violence. I do suspect that Antifa teaches and advocates for its members to start violence.
With a name like the Proud Boys maybe the authorities thought they were a singing group.
Are Proud Boys or Oath keepers terrorizing parts of Portland each night?
Keep two things in mind when approaching Proud Boys vs. Antifa:
1. The Proud Boys are a more traditional organization and much easier for the authorities to break up. Antifa is organized in cells like a resistance movement and if you get one cell it does not necessarily follow that that will lead you to other cells.
2. Taking down Antifa is going to be very embarrassing for the Democrats because you will most likely find a lot of links between Antifa and Democrat organizations. I'll be fair and say that a lot of this was probably due to Democrats following the old "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" philosophy, but it was very unwise for them to get in bed with Antifa.
NYT - "Members raised money to travel across state lines."
Is traveling across state lines illegal?
Antifa do it.
Antifa are the left's brownshirts. So - as Antifa terrorize in reality - they are labeled "only an idea" by the president of the US and the top of the FBI.
“If the Proud Boys was not a white male chauvinist club but a Black male chauvinist club, I think that, sadly, we would have seen a different policing posture,”
Exactly, meaning nothing would have been done.
If Antifa or BLM had been involved, only wrist slaps would have been handed out.
If there are no prosecutions for the courthouse attacks then we'll know the truth.
Btw, isn't the Nation of Islam a black male chauvinist club?
Blogger BidenFamilyTaxPayerFundedCrackPipe said...
NYT - "Members raised money to travel across state lines."
I'm pretty sure this is boilerplate stuff included to justify Federal action. My understanding is that the Federal government doesn't have general police powers like the individual states do. So the Federal government needs to tick a box of something they do have power over according to the Constitution, like interstate commerce. I think this was the same justification for the Mann Act, which was used to to prosecute Jack Johnson for taking women across state lines for something or other.
I am not confident in "the authorities." The highest levels of the military (filtered via Obama) appear to be poltroons. Law enforcement has gone doggo.
Yup. The honest cops are quitting or moving to cities that are still sane. The military is shedding members that fight wars and not their own citizens.
Carter Ham knows but he is not talking as his pension is at stake.
Protesters have done more time in jail awaiting trial than they would if they were tried, convicted, and sentenced according to sentencing guidelines.
...with no end in sight.
The Boys were explicitly inclusive of all races and sexualities, and from what I've seen of their scraps with Antifa, a good bit more "diverse" than their opponents.
As to how they're treated by police, how many Antifa members are currently under federal indictment?
I dont call them blm or antifa nor the resistance, they are a shake and bake militia funded by corporate extortion
Aren't the Proud Boys on of those multi-racial white supremacist groups?
I'm sorry to say that I no faith in our government officials, current or former.
The leader of the Proud Boys is Enrique Tarrio. Notable people who have lighter skin than he does includes: Barack Obama, Kamala Harris, Senator Cory Booker, Duchess Meghan Markle, and former CEO of the NAACP Benjamin Jealous.
This administration is at war with the productive elements of america and in leafie with foreign power the mandarin regime is not far off in description.
If the name Steven D’Antuono sounds familiar, it’s because it is. Readers might recall a must-read Revolver Exclusive from months ago detailing how D’Antuono appears to have helped frame the MAGA movement from his own local Detroit FBI Field Office, overseeing his Federal agents’ Infiltration-Incitement-Indictment sting operation of loners and losers during the so-called “Gretchen Witmer Kidnapping” plot. Then, with only a year of leadership in Detroit, D’Antuono was strangely and immediately promoted to the FBI Washington Field Office right before the election.
In the Whitmer Plot, once you get past the screaming headlines implying MAGA crazies plotted to storm the Michigan Capitol building and kidnap the Governor, you find that more than 25% of the plot’s participants were all FBI operatives (at least two undercover informants, and at least two undercover agents) who assumed key leadership roles in inciting a bunch of mentally unstable people in a Facebook chat group to do something stupid.
Just this week, it leaked out from court filings that the FBI has now indicted one of their own Federal informants – a third one, apparently – who the FBI originally paid to infiltrate the group in the first place.
If we find out months from now that one or more of the violent “terror” plots associated with 1/6 were actually an Infiltration-Incitement-Indictment story like the Whitmer Plot, will history be rewritten to reflect the Big Reveal?
https://www.revolver.news/2021/03/fbis-ridiculous-capitolsiege-pipe-bomb-video-is-an-all-out-assault-on-common-sense/
Are all Trump supporters terrorists?
The hack press and the modern democrat party and Antifa - say YES!
There were at least two groups at the Capitol. The "People for Trump", without the aid of law enforcement, opposing the multi-trimester incitement and cover-ups by the media, social platforms, steering engines, etc., were policing the progress of the aggressive faction that was simulating an insurrection for spectacle.
Who was really killed at the Jan 6th capitol "rioting" - where the doors were held open, and everyone walked in with ease?
Tell us about each death.
Taking down Antifa is going to be very embarrassing for the Democrats because you will most likely find a lot of links between Antifa and Democrat organizations.
Do you have the least shred of evidence for this? Or is it you just want it to be true?
This is the same NYT that reported for a month that Officer Sicknick was bludgeoned to death with a fire extinguisher despite conflicting evidence to the contrary by both the Capitol Hill Police report and member's of Sicknick's family. That the NYT reports something these days is almost evidence that it didn't happen that way at all.
n.n said...
There were at least two groups at the Capitol. The "People for Trump", without the aid of law enforcement, opposing the multi-trimester incitement and cover-ups by the media, social platforms, steering engines, etc., were policing the progress of the aggressive faction that was simulating an insurrection for spectacle.
**********************************
Wut?
BidenFamilyTaxPayerFundedCrackPipe said...
Who was really killed at the Jan 6th capitol "rioting" - where the doors were held open, and everyone walked in with ease?
Tell us about each death.
***************************
This is what you call "walking in with ease"?:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPQuJrLTB-M
What on earth is wrong with you?
They didn't plot "insurrection". Why don't words mean anything, any more? Its like the liberal elite just decided that they'll be Humpty Dumpty and just mean words to mean whatever they want them to mean. And people like althouse just go along with it. Hey, who cares if its Orwellian? Who cares if its dishonest?
Just win baby, just win.
Basically, we're just back in Trump-Russia days, where the FBI and Media elite keep telling us that someone did something really, really bad. But we can't prove it because there's some great, super-secret investigation going on, and someday we'll all get to know it.
Bullshit. The FBI is just harassing some obscure Right-wing organization and putting them in jail because Pelosi and Schumer want it. Yeah, other then the fact that the Bad Boys haven't committed any crimes - they're really DANGEROUS. Unlike Antifa, which of course, is just an "idea".
Hundreds of cities, tens of billions in danages, its like a vampyre plague.
Everything our hostess posted from that article is a complete and utter lie.
Why bother parsing it
Membership "believed to be in the thousands" - that pretty much tells you all you need to know.
Well because we need to know what bizarre tableau from the mirror universe thet are presenting.
ANTIFA and BLM are just this century's Democrat KKK. They are a militant Democrat shock troops. I'll bet left wing NGOs funnel cash to them.
Proud Boys are basically a security force to protect Trump supporter when confronted with ANTIFA violence. I believed they were formed in response to what happened in LA before and after the 2016 Trump campaign event. Nothing seems to rally folks seeing people in wheel chairs and the elderly being beat up for attending a political rally.
Federal prosecutors have requested a delay in cases related to the Jan. 6 Capitol riot, citing it as "likely the most complex investigation ever prosecuted by the Department of Justice."
I honestly don't know which would reflect more poorly on the DOJ: the prosecutors believing that statement to be true, or the prosecutors saying it without believing it to be true.
They ought to change their names to the Boogie Men.
If nobody is sure who they are or what they want, that could be why police don't know how to handle them.
Like QAnon, the Proud Boys, is a label that the media grabbed hold of to describe things that are harder to get a handle on. QAnon stands in for all the conspiracy theories circulating independently on the internet. The Proud Boys stand in for more radical groups that nobody has ever heard of the, like the 3 Percenters and the Oath Keepers.
The Proud Boys appear to be first of all about masculinity and opposing trends they think of as anti-male, and secondly about opposing what they regard as anti-Western trends, particularly from Muslims. Opposition to Antifa and support for Trump seem to have been picked up somewhere along the way. Gavin MacInnis, who started the Proud Boys, is married to an Native American woman. He was also a founder of Vice Media, though his ties to the organization have been severed.
The entire DOJ is corrupt.
Bullshit. WaPo identified nine members of Proud Boys at the Capitol protest. Nine. Use the usual rubric and two were federal agents, two informants working for the feds leaving five actual members.
None accused of violence. Some overthrow. Five to nine people trespassed on federal property. That’s five minute of what happened in Seattle last week, minus the damage to federal office buildings.
Let’s start a chart.
This is such a stupid, obvious lie... that blacks would have been treated differently.
BLM torched almost every city last year, some of them twice.
In most cases, no arrests and no prosecutions.
The very outrageousness of officials lies is now a daily beat down.
Freder Frederson said...
Taking down Antifa is going to be very embarrassing for the Democrats because you will most likely find a lot of links between Antifa and Democrat organizations.
Do you have the least shred of evidence for this? Or is it you just want it to be true?
3/14/21, 12:13 PM
Maybe open your eyes...You may be surprised. https://thefederalist.com/2020/08/31/meet-the-rioting-criminals-kamala-harris-helped-bail-out-of-jail/
Remember when they cancelled bennet for approving tom cottens column, pepperidge farm remembers
Our post-truth clown world continus apace. While there is no federal law against 'domestic terrorism' specifically, federal law does define the term. In an honest society, that definition would absolutely include the actions of BLM and antifa, who engaged in violence againt American citizens in pursuit of political change. This cannot be seriously debated.
Really. Sounds uber-serious and important.
As long as we’re digging into such things, what about the busloads lined up on the streets of Chicago last summer, filled with out-of-state agitators? Soros-trained and funded out-of-state agitators.
Busloads from out of state don’t just happen organically, that’s conspiracy, organized, trained, and funded. Obviously.
We are being lied to, daily, with this stupid bullshit.
Elizabeth Neumann was the Bush/Trump official who resigned and supported Biden in a big way, joining up with the guy who was "Anonymous." Her agenda has been warning incessantly about the radical right. If she has a concealed agenda beneath that one, it's supporting more immigration. "Anonymous" went on to work for Google. Neumann is with a group of anti-Trump Establishment Republicans and a immigration advocacy group.
She's part of a whole assembly of people who think like her and draw off the same sources. Other people have other sources and disagree with her. As I said, nowadays everybody has their own truth carefully created and proven for them by a think tank of their choice, and everybody thinks other people's truths are cobbled together by dishonest, paid-for hacks and flacks.
Serious Questions
How many police, have the Proud Boys executed?
How many police stations, have they occupied?
How many court houses, have they tried to burn down?
finally; have they shot more bullets in the Capitol, than the Puerto Rican terrorists have?
How about bombs? More, or less than Bill Ayers?
My impression was that they formed to enjoy fighting Antifa and BLM rioters.
Antifa excusing Leftists - please explain what Animal skin Shaman did?
Did he bring a gun?
Did he burn anything down? What did he do that was so dangerous.
Name exactly the ACT that makes him so dangerous?
Was it his mere presence? or the fact that he supports Trump?
Compare and contrast with Antifa in ... why just LAST NIGHT in Los Angeles
Please leftists - we want to know.
Ho hum.
White Supremacist are the new existential threat myth of the Left.
In Denver last summer, organizers left stacks of bricks for the rioters to use. yes really.
This stack of bricks phenomenon happened in other cities as well.
odd?
In germany they are purging their top specual forces company, because of ephemeram notions like this.
Special forces, ksk (the ones i suggested might be guarding the scytl/colt digital servers in frankfurt) ephemeral notions.
This is where the corrupt left and the Antifa Woke Psychotics are taking us.
Actual footage of Antifa Nazis - and the collective left do not have a single thing to say about it.
Does anyone believe these fucks at DOJ anymore? These folks are the Blue QAnon who foisted the attempted coup on America with Steele report. These are seriously corrupt people.
Does anyone believe these fucks at DOJ anymore?
>>
Short answer: no.
I've been hearing about Antifa for decades. I've only heard about the Proud boys (and the Bugaloos and QAnon) for the last year or so. Yet, so many of my friends on the far left think that the Proud Boys is a very large, well coordinated, white supremacist army; but Antifa is just some right wing fantasy that doesn't exist. I also think that it was apparent that the right wing protests were not known for devolving into violence and property destruction until those QAnon idiots stormed the Capitol.
we would have seen a different policing posture
Lacking information, the former Homeland Security official accuses others of racism based on her imagination.
If they're an American group, then Pro-Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness.
Trump Supporters fighting ANTIFA at the Capitol Doors
Nice touch abusing, desecrating our national flag.
Whether it's the Occupy insurrection, the Antifa mobs, Some, Select Black Lives Matter neighborhood incursions, or public servants colluding with foreign interests against the People and our Posterity, we are on a progressive path and grade. #HateLovesAbortion
How's the area around the Portland Federal Courthouse doing these days?
Asking for a completely apolitical friend who specializes in "whataboutism" arguments.
Isn’t the head of the Proud Boys black?
That kinda refutes them being a white chauvinist club doesn’t it?
No. There were congressional hearings in the 80 or 90s, attended by black, white, and bown militia leaders. Their color distribution did not improve their social status nor influence the media spin. Americans, in principle, are not diversitists.
A guy in Laguna Beach, of all places, was arrested on a trumped up charge because he was in the capital January 6.
Garrett Andrew Gauvain, 49, was taken into custody by Laguna Beach police in the 1100 block of Catalina Street on suspicion of being in possession of a firearm within 10 years of a misdemeanor battery conviction, according to the Police Department and court records. He posted bail and was released.
The FBI confirmed it executed a federal search warrant but said it’s under seal and the agency was unable to provide any details about the probe, including the probable cause that led agents to believe there was evidence of a crime at Gauvain’s home, said Thom Mrozek, spokesman for the U.S. Department of Justice.
Just another Domestic Terrorist.
Bidenfamilyetc
You are not wrong about antifa being brownshirts.
But a better metaphor would be Mussolini's Fascist Party Blackshirts.
1) antifa follows the original Fascist ideology
2) they dress in black
John Henry
Whenever I read about the Proud Boys, I always picture British actor Vinnie Jones in a Guy Ritchie film. I guess that might be cuz the Proud Boys don't have ongoing riots in Portland, and didn't spend the summer of 2020 rioting in multiple cities across the entire nation. So their public persona isn't as well developed as that of BLM abnd Antifa. At least for me.
Perhaps this recent spate of FBI attention will make some of the Proud Boys as famous as several recent victims of police racist brutality, and for exactly similar, objectively factual, reasons.
Are Curtis Sliwa and his Guardian Angels "terrorists"?
They seem to be doing similar things to pb. Difference is mainly who they protect and who they protect against.
Both are vigilante groups, perhaps. Vigilante groups are what you get when police don't exist or won't do their jobs.
It's not always pretty.
John Henry
How many police, have the Proud Boys executed?
How many have Antifa executed?
As long as we’re digging into such things, what about the busloads lined up on the streets of Chicago last summer, filled with out-of-state agitators? Soros-trained and funded out-of-state agitators.
Busloads from out of state don’t just happen organically, that’s conspiracy, organized, trained, and funded. Obviously.
This never happened, you are lying.
In Denver last summer, organizers left stacks of bricks for the rioters to use. yes really.
This stack of bricks phenomenon happened in other cities as well.
odd?
Again, never happened. In Denver or any other city. You are lying.
Maybe open your eyes...You may be surprised. https://thefederalist.com/2020/08/31/meet-the-rioting-criminals-kamala-harris-helped-bail-out-of-jail/
So what? Did I complain when Kyle Rittenhouse was bailed out (and is having his lawyers paid for) by right wing supporters? And he actually killed two people.
The Proud Boys always seemed like a butch fantasy a couple of old gays invented while talking on the phone, but if that were actually the case they would have called them the Proud Bois.
"arrests were rare because police generally favored the Proud Boys over their left-leaning opponents...."
Couple this with the desire to go after niggers for woke - but not Bill Clinton (and all that Clinton Foundation money he and Hillary throw around) for four rapes - and, yeah, I'd say y'all look pretty racist.
As well as politically stupid.
Lady Gaga's dog walker is presumably doing ok.
Do you have the least shred of evidence for this? Or is it you just want it to be true? - Freder
Is having your vice president raising bail money for the rioters enough evidence for you?
Freder's people ... who apparently don't exist.
chickelit said...
Can't let go of that "insurrection" nonsense, I see.
I think it's a legal term of art which must remain in place in order for the highest of charges to stick. If you look, you see this all the time. Cf. how Hillary got away with her alleged crimes.
It all collapses on this lie. The lie of insurrection.
As such there is a statutory definition. Enumerated elements required, to make the charge against a person in a court of law.
Under no definition was Jan 6th, insurrection
January 6th was not an insurrection because Democrats declared it was no insurrection. Don't believe me. The Congressional Record is clear.
Is having your vice president raising bail money for the rioters enough evidence for you?
No. Almost everyone is entitled to bail (heck there is even an amendment in the bill of rights prohibiting excessive bail). I guess you just don't believe in the concept of innocent until proven guilty.
Jim at said...
Do you have the least shred of evidence for this? Or is it you just want it to be true? - Freder
Is having your vice president raising bail money for the rioters enough evidence for you?
If you guys really cared about this you would've taken out the Clintons and Oprah who give support to people like Kamala - but you don't: you pick on blacks.
I don't know why Freder feels the need to go to bat for Antifa.
Freder Frederson,
Almost everyone is entitled to bail (heck there is even an amendment in the bill of rights prohibiting excessive bail). I guess you just don't believe in the concept of innocent until proven guilty.
Well "excessive" bail is forbidden. Does it follow that all bail is forbidden? Obviously not. Should Ms. Harris and friends have bailed out anyone and everyone who has been arrested for any crime? I am assuming you would think that would be silly. So the reality is that a certain subset of accused -- you know, the burning-and-looting-and-throwing-bricks subset -- had a bunch of prominent and wealthy Democrats rush to their aid. I presume that only some thefts, some arson, some brick-throwing was treated this way, that the random kid who smashed a random window for no particular reason, or the kids who got drunk after a game and set a Dumpster on fire for the hell of it -- they would have to make bail on their own, just like your ordinary sex offender or barroom brawler. The bail was for specific purposes.
As for "innocent until proven guilty," guilt is determined either by confession or by trial; bail precedes either. No one that I've heard of did not want these guys (they were mostly guys) put on trial, no one.
Crack: Did I just see you implying that Oprah Winfrey isn't Black? I'm confused. She's Blacker than Harris, surely.
I don't know why Freder feels the need to go to bat for Antifa.
Another lie
I have never gone to bat for Antifa. I do not agree with, and condemn, their tactics and acknowledge their existence. What I deny is that they are funded by George Soros (code for international Jewish Cabal) or that they are working in coordination with the Democratic party. Ridiculous conspiracy theories.
3/14/21, 2:30 PM
The Crack Emcee said
"Couple this with the desire to go after n..... for woke - but not Bill Clinton (and a"
I elided the word. Crack spelled it out in all its ugliness. I elided so My comment doesn't get deleted.
Let's see how long Ann allows this to stay up. I'd be willing to bet forever.
Now Heisenberg comes into play. By saying she will leave it up, she is kind of forced to take it down.
Or maybe she will leave it up just to show me I can't make her dance to my music.
Leave it or delete it. Perhaps we should have a pool.
And Crack, this is not aimed at you. I think the word is ugly and demeaning and will never use it. I don't think you should either.
Otoh, have at it. Just don't ever complain when some non-black person uses it.
Sauce for the goose and all that.
John Henry
And maybe a pool for my comment referring to Crack's comment
John Henry
“If the Proud Boys was not a white male chauvinist club but a Black male chauvinist club, I think that, sadly, we would have seen a different policing posture,”
Boy, has she got that right. The police would be paying them as consultants.
The posture would involve taking a knee.
Blogger The Vault Dweller said...
..". the likelihood of them just merely being innocent protestors/counter-protestors and then every time there is an altercation it is from some agitated lefty seems pretty low."
Yeah, and the likelihood that those Antifa guys burned all those buildings without provocation is pretty low too, right? Minneapolis was asking for it. So was Kenosha, NYC, Portland -- all the white supremacist cities, really. Why did they hire police, if not to start fights with innocent Leftists?
Freder Frederson said...
I have never gone to bat for Antifa. I do not agree with, and condemn, their tactics and acknowledge their existence. What I deny is that they are funded by George Soros (code for international Jewish Cabal) or that they are working in coordination with the Democratic party.
Democrats create Antifa through their extremist and hate filled indoctrination program. Everyone who disagrees with them is a racist, and only their political enemies prevent everyone from living a life of leisure. Sure the main goal is to create reliable Dem voters, but the process predictably produces antifa and similar extremists. Whether or not they support the individual act of producing antifas they all support the process which includes this known outcome. Reasonable people do not allow them to disclaim responsibility for the known outcomes of a process they support.
Further of course antifa coordinates with Dems. Before the election last year Dems allowed antifa to riot nightly and mustered their own supporters to run interference with police. After the election that support disappeared and local politicians directed police to take the actions they and we knew would end the rioting but refused to take before the election.
Shorter version of this thread: but Antifa!
Jim at said...
Freder's people ... who apparently don't exist.
The chant "Pigs in a blanket, fry'em like bacon" is not antifa, it's BLM. It was so widespread at the start of BLM it's considered an unofficial anthem.
Interestingly BLM widely engages in this dehumanization even as they wrongly claim any criticism of them is dehumanizing on the basis any criticism "denies their experience".
Shorter version of this thread: but Antifa!
>>
Shortest version: NYT lies.
"Total membership is unknown but believed to be in the thousands". In a nation of 320+ million souls. Thousands. Not tens of thousands, nor hundreds of thousands. Thousands. Are they armed with handguns, rifles, mortars, or rockets? Because I have it on good authority that no one arrested, maybe even observed, on Jan 6 was armed.
The democrats, in search of the treasonous capitol window breakers, must not be using the Special Forces, but using the Spectral Forces. Only the FBI ghost busters can sort out the traitors between the Capitol visit, and the Portland Federal Courthouse visits. It’s only treason if Congress is scared. It’s not treason if the Federal Judiciary is scared.
"NEW: Federal prosecutors have requested a delay in cases related to the Jan. 6 Capitol riot, citing it as "likely the most complex investigation ever prosecuted by the Department of Justice.""
-- Just like with the case against Trump, there was a period where it was so obvious we barely needed a trial and certainly did not need a lengthy process that included things like witnesses, to suddenly needing more time. If I were the judge, I'd say: "You shouldn't have brought charges if you weren't ready. Request denied."
"NEW: Federal prosecutors have requested a delay in cases related to the Jan. 6 Capitol riot, citing it as "likely the most complex investigation ever prosecuted by the Department of Justice.""
Translation: "It's taking longer than expected to make up the evidence and coordinate our lies."
"NEW: Federal prosecutors have requested a delay in cases related to the Jan. 6 Capitol riot, citing it as "likely the most complex investigation ever prosecuted by the Department of Justice.""
I would expect that in order to actually have these trials the government is going to have to make sworn testimony under oath about what actually happened at the capitol and make statements as to the context of the actions of the accused. They must not be ready to make those statements yet. It looked like fun to imprison the traitors but they forgot they would have to present a timeline of capitol police actions.
I think the capitol traitors will be squeezed hard to cop a plea to prevent the government from having to explain itself. They will threaten to send the traitors children to prison on nothingburger charges if they don’t confess and take 6 months in Marion IL.
"NEW: Federal prosecutors have requested a delay in cases related to the Jan. 6 Capitol riot, citing it as "likely the most complex investigation ever prosecuted by the Department of Justice.""
Seriously, the Feds will wrap this up soon. The only pieces missing from their case for an armed insurrection are:
(1) Arms
(2) An actual attempt to take control of the government (that just happened to be headed at that time by the alleged insurrection leader, Donald J. Trump).
"NEW: Federal prosecutors have requested a delay in cases related to the Jan. 6 Capitol riot, citing it as "likely the most complex investigation ever prosecuted by the Department of Justice.""
An honest judge would tell the prosecutors that this isn’t the way that you do things. You don’t arrest people, then slowly build a case against them. Instead, you build your case and then arrest them.
And it is very likely so complex, because they have nothing to arrest anyone for. Their problem is that whatever little violence there was, was being instigated by easily identified AntiFA terrorists, and they can’t afford for that to come out. They need something more than littering, that can’t be traced to AntiFA, and aren’t finding it. Insurrection is out, as a cause of action, because the FBI’s targets were Trump supporters, and Trump was still President. Of course, they could scoop up the AntiFA there trying to incite violence, but the Biden DOJ is in the process of dismissing federal charges against AntiFA across the country for real crimes they committed last summer and fall, as fast as they can. What is so complex for them is concocting charges and cases and keeping AntiFA out of it. Many of the AntiFA terrorists are known, and there is video showing them committing federal crimes, and trying to incite those in the capital that day to follow them. The Biden DOJ cannot afford for that video to be entered as evidence in trial. Working around those constraints is what is complex.
Gaslighting, 24/7/365
If the Proud Boys were a group of Black men, there would have in fact been a different posture by both the police and the media. It would have been very much like their posture to an actual group of Black men that goes by the name Black Lives Matter.
The DoJ is so corrupt. We've seen this before.
Remember, Boy Scout Mueller indicted a bunch of Russians for collusion. So the Press could bloviate about it somehow proved President Trump was connected, even though at the press conference announcing the indictments, the DoJ was forced to admit no Trump connection, in fact, NO US CITIZEN were identified.
So indictments against Russian entities, that Mueller did for show, knowing he would never have to prove the indictments in a court.....until one of the Russian companies did show up in court to defend themselves. Mueller immediately asked for a continuance. The Judge explained that's not how it works. You don't indict someone, UNTIL you are ready to go to trial. Motion denied.
If this motion is not denied, the judge is a criminal.
Got to love Field Marshall Freder's leaping to the defense of George Soros with the cry that if you criticize Soros, you must be "blaming the Jews."
Really? Freder, you are aware, are you not, that George Soros literally sold his fellow Jews to the Nazis so he could seize their property?
What's next: you are going to accuse Dante Alighieri of being Anti-Christian because he put one of Jesus' 12 original apostles in the very bottom of Hell to be chewed on by Satan forever? Said apostle being, of course, the traitor: Judas Iscariot.
Soros is a Judas. Evil to the core. That you defend him is 1)no surprise and 2) reflects horribly on you.
until one of the Russian companies did show up in court to defend themselves. Mueller immediately asked for a continuance
Comedy gold.
you must be "blaming the Jews."
Ah, yes, White... I mean, Jew privilege. Also, male privilege, heterosexual (i.e. gender) privilege. And, last, but not least, baby... Fetal-American privilege, too. Choice (pun intended).
Many of the AntiFA terrorists are known, and there is video showing them committing federal crimes, and trying to incite those in the capital that day to follow them
Trans-American "America first" factions abusing and desecrating our national flag to commit property damage, with the audacity to hope and dream of forcing an insurrection.
If the Proud Boys were a group of Black men
Black leaders, white leaders, and brown leaders, too, of diversity-free militias received no quarter from leftists. Color doesn't matter.
it would have been very much like their posture to an actual group of Black men that goes by the name Black Lives Matter.
Some, Select Black Lives Matter. That said, Baby Lives Matter (BLM).
DC is a small town. About 700,000 population. A little bigger than El Paso TX, a little smaller than Charlotte NC. Of course, a lot of the judges and Justice Department officials live in the suburbs -- Virginia and Maryland -- but DC is where they work, where the newspapers they read are published, where the TV newscasts originate, where the opinions that count are made. All the jurors who would try the cases against the "insurrectionists" live in DC. When the prosecutor begins his/her opening statement referring to the "insurrection", no one in the jury box will have his/her bullshit detector triggered.
Michelle Dulak Thomson said...
"Crack: Did I just see you implying that Oprah Winfrey isn't Black? I'm confused."
You keep admitting that, but maintain such a hostile tone - it's weird.
No, I didn't imply that, though I think she's extremely harmful to blacks, the Civil Rights Movement, America, and the world.
Y'all do remember when there was chatter about her running for President and then Seth McFarland jumped up and said "Wait a minute, she's dangerous" - what happened to that? How does the Republican Party not capitalize on that, as she continues to help the Democrats win? How many days must I watch her do her very important work of ALTERING REALITY - and see you guys arguing over some dumb thing A0OC or Biden said that doesn't matter - before you learn to look in the right direction?
It's beyond frustrating. Your constant state of hostile confusion, in the face of that, I mean.
"...the definition of terrorism, other officials said: unlawful violence and intimidation for political aims."
Sounds like the 2020 riots. And the latest ones in Portland.
Josephbleau said...
"I think the capitol traitors will be squeezed hard to cop a plea to prevent the government from having to explain itself. They will threaten to send the traitors children to prison on nothingburger charges if they don’t confess and take 6 months in Marion IL."
It's already happening, as per Insty. Spouses are losing their jobs, Bank accounts being frozen. Kids being excluded from schoolEtc.. It won't take much for someone to figure they have nothing else to lose and it's the armored bulldozer all over again.
Really? Freder, you are aware, are you not, that George Soros literally sold his fellow Jews to the Nazis so he could seize their property?
I was not aware of that, because it is a lie and libel. George Soros was 13 when the Germans occupied Hungary. He did not sell his fellow Jews to the Nazi (and your accusation doesn't even make sense, the Nazis would not reward a Jew, or even a non-Jewish Hungarian, with property stolen from Jews). The family friend with whom he was in hiding did indeed have a contract to empty apartments of deported families. That is a far cry from turning them in.
The NYT really thinks it can intimidate conservatives. They must think all conservatives act like David Brooks.
I trust NOTHING from the NYT.
The Crack Emcee,
You keep admitting that, but maintain such a hostile tone - it's weird.
I don't "keep" "admitting" anything, Crack; I've barely spoken to you. And my tone has, I think, been pretty polite. There are a lot of people here attacking you much more frequently and with much harsher mien.
Here is what you said:
If you guys really cared about this you would've taken out the Clintons and Oprah who give support to people like Kamala - but you don't: you pick on blacks.
Does that or doesn't it imply that Oprah isn't herself Black? "Hey, you're picking on Blacks! Why not pick on Oprah instead? You're not picking on Oprah!" All I did was point out that Oprah is, herself, Black. I'm glad we don't disagree on that.
Michelle Dulak Thomson said...
"Does that or doesn't it imply that Oprah isn't herself Black?"
No - it implies you pick on the poor instead of the rich and powerful political players making shit happen.
And you do it because racists punch down.
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