Headline at the Wall Street Journal.
Philips was in the news years ago after he refused to make a same-sex wedding cake. He's dealt with that problem by not making custom wedding cakes anymore (and, we're told, losing 40% of his business).
Now, he's accusing of discrimination against transgenders:
In her original complaint to the [Colorado Civil Rights Commission, Autumn Scardina] wrote that she’d told the bakery the design was “intended for the celebration of my transition from male to female.”
Blue icing on a pink cake.
After Masterpiece turned down this cake, Ms. Scardina called to request another. This one would feature Satan smoking a joint. Mr. Phillips declined....
“Jack didn’t single Scardina out for being transgender,” [said Kristen Waggoner, general counsel for the Alliance Defending Freedom]. “He wouldn’t bake cakes with those messages for anyone.” This is a baker who won’t even make Halloween cakes, she adds, and serves everyone regardless of gender identity or sexual orientation....
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206 comments:
1 – 200 of 206 Newer› Newest»The mental illness spawned by feminism continues to devour us.
I hope the baker saves the hate-voice mails he has received. I've heard a few played on local radio over the years. It's non stop.
This poor guy is harassed over and over again by the insane Kamala-Antifa-asshole left.
The baker is being targeted and harassed by leftwing assholes
Governor Polis and his leftwing party support the harassment of this guy.
Talk about abuse of process. These people are mentally ill.
How about people leave this guy alone?
This is insane.
Jean-Francois Revel aptly described the left's "pitiless ferocity toward some, and boundless indulgence toward others."
They will keep coming at Jack Phillips, because leaving him alone and buying from someone else simply doesn't teach the lesson they need taught.
Oh for God's sake, find a different fucking baker if Jack won't bend his knee to you.
I'm firing my doctor today because I don't like how his office works. I'm finding a new doc. This is how freedom works. You cannot conscript others to work for you. You cannot make claims on others time of life. You do have choices. For awhile longer, anyway. To those who would make me submit to their whims, I would turn my business away from them as well. In fact, I do choose to not work with some in my industry. I pick and choose who I want to do business with. Freedom.
We should be a society where you have the right to live for your own sake, as long as your choices do not infringe on the rights of others to live for their own sake. This does not seem like it would be difficult or evil in any way. But to regressives, and unfortunately, our Federal Government, it's a sign of non-compliance.
His transition to harpy is a success.
I am Laslo.
More evidence of seething hate from the 'love wins' crowd.
This isn't a good look for the naggers insisting that they are all about tolerance. They need to be pulled over and sanctioned.
Stop hating Mr. Phillips.
If Scardina went to Phillips' bakery for the purpose of putting him in a situation where he had to refuse to bake a cake, was Scardina harmed by Phillips? How?
I'm not a lawyer. Does a plaintiff have to show they were harmed to have standing to sue?
Since the icing goes on last, shouldn't it be pink icing on a blue cake? (Also, borrowing from the Oreo slur, pink on the outside, blue on the inside).
Phillips is clearly being harassed and should have a cause of action against his tormentors.
Laslo and Lucid_Ideas win the thread.
In some places at some times, it wouldn't be Jack Phillips looking over his shoulder.
You all need to understand - HE IS BEING TARGETED AND HARASSED.
These people do not want a trannie satan smoking a joint cake - they want to harrass the cake baker non-stop. They are obsessed. These freaks are no different than Antifa and probably ARE antifa.
Leave the guy alone. They are doing this purposely. There are other bakeries. Go to one who accepts you and stop being an asshole targeting somebody who you disagree with.
If you fuck with freedom of association clumsily you get clumsy law. Religion and belief have no special exemption over just not wanting to but wind up in court cases for close examination of a way to make sense of the constitution.
Freedom of association except in monopoly markets, ought to have been the rule in civil rights law.
This isn't a monopoly market, end of case.
Taking it out on the world because you're unhappy to have been born with a cock.
There are some things cake won't fix.
I am Laslo.
Does religious freedom exist or not? If it exists for "gay" then it exists for everything. Enough already. Start counter suing these asshats!
I keep waiting for a backlash. Is the motive known for the Colorado shooting yet?
Love wins.
The worshippers of the Golden Calf can tolerate no other god.
Remember when conservatives predicted that anyone who refused to bend the knee to gay weddings and all other manner of deviancy would be sued into oblivious and were laughed at by all "right-thinking" folks? Pepperidge Farm remembers.
A competitor of the business I work for refuses to engage and do business with customers from specific lines of operation, prisons and gun manufacturers, for example. We are happy to do business with these folks and our competitor is happy following their principles. No one loses.
These folks going after the baker are engaged in lawfare, plain and simple. As someone above says, the baker needs to be taught a lesson. Or something.
Mental illness weaponizing the legal system. What a country this is.
Banks colluding to deny lawful industries, such as gun manufacturers or social media companies, access to financing and bank accounts? Perfectly acceptable.
Baker refusing to make a cake he finds offensive? HANG HIM!
I wonder when vexatious litigant comes into this ?
Imagine if a conservative targeted and harassed a gay-cake baker. over and over.
Imagine what Polis would be saying.
Well stated, Mr. Wibble.
I wonder when vexatious litigant comes into this ?
Never. The litigant is part of the protected class, and the legal system is no longer impartial but actively supports the left.
When the left lecture us on "hate" - think of this cake baker and what he has endured.
It has not stopped.
Polis could say something - but he wont because he supports the harassment.
Progressive Means moving forward
Like a shark, a progressive can NOT stop moving; or it dies
Once a battle is won, there HAS TO BE another battle
Nothing is EVER enough
In the Age of Hurt Feelings this vicious idiocy is inevitable. And look at it from the perspective of the trans plaintiff: xe need only declare xir sadz in order to generate a cause of action, and with it an endless stream of approbation from xir supporters. Xe can probably use this to jumpstart xir career or get on a talk show to hold forth on the cancerous culture that allow this baker to turn away xir business in xir hour of desperate need. And the drama, while greatly benefiting xir, will burden the baker with legal costs and hate mail. Win-win-win!
The point being, these morons will never stop unless they feel a strong disincentive. Call it pain.
It has clearly become sport among assholes to torment this baker.
In her original complaint to the [Colorado Civil Rights Commission, Autumn Scardina] wrote that she’d told the bakery the design was “intended for the celebration of my transition from male to female.”
Better than even odds Ms. Scardina's car has a "COEXIST" bumper sticker on it.
This sounds like time machine stuff...wasn't this settled?
And what is with bitter, hateful people and cakes?
Cakes should make people happy.
The left wants to take something that traditionally makes people happy, and use it as a tool to beat up on people and make them miserable.
Wokeness in a nutshell...
This sounds like time machine stuff...wasn't this settled?
Nope. Chickenshit Roberts and SCOTUS punted by deciding that the CO Human Rights Commission never gave him a fair hearing to begin with, thus evading the bigger question about whether he could be compelled to bake a gay wedding cake.
What's Next?
Mobs of angry people,
invading restaurants and DEMANDING people raise a fist and comply with their slogans?
Oh, Wait; never mind, we're already there
"The worshippers of the Golden Calf can tolerate no other god."
Kinda this...wokeness is their fucking religion along with climate change and abortion.
Roberts was a godawful SC pick.
Flashback: Kamala Harris said nationwide protests are 'not going to stop'
This is all the same crap. The left and their mental illness - 'never gonna stop'
No ID to vote.
My granddaughter (7 yrs. old) getting the feminist indoctrination via computer in remote class this morning.
These M-F trans types are the SS shock troops of the LGBTQWhatever movement. Almost to a man, they are obsessed with using identity politics to search out and destroy anyone who disagrees. This Autumn Scardina has been obsessed with taking down this baker since his (procedural) victory in SCOTUS. He is a lawyer who has no other life.
Once psychiatry diagnosed these men as sick, suffering from gender dysphoria. Now, they are provided the full weaponry of economic, legal and social cancellation.
This isn't new- the cake baker has been harassed by the hate-filled left for years now.
I imagine they won't be happy until this guy literally commits suicide. And even then their happiness will be fleeting and they'll almost immediately revert to being miserable. Happy people don't go way out of their way to get into a legal fight.
Jack is an artist. His medium is cakes and the decoration of cakes. Just as an artist-painter can reject a potential patron's directions on how he should paint a mural, so does Jack have the right to reject a potential customer's directions on how he should decorate a cake.
A debating technique similar to "Look, a squirrel!"
example:
Referring to the Phillips bakery case as refusal to make a same-sex wedding cake rather than coercion of speech.
Anyone who hasn't yet readLive Not By Lies needs to right goddamn now.
The next happy couple needs to find a Muslim baker. Let the hilarity begin.
"my transition from male to female."
Psst - that doesn't actually happen.
Autumn Scardina: https://scardinalaw.com/.
It sounds like a case of
"Late-onset gender dysphoria: This is a biological male-only affliction driven by the sex fetish of being aroused by the thought of himself as a woman.
While kept mostly secret by the press, it likely explains the majority of the famous cases of high-IQ men who have fathered children declaring themselves to be women.
It’s not that they always felt like a girl on the inside while succeeding in some intensely masculine career such as world’s greatest athlete or outer-space tycoon, it’s that they have a fetish."
"Autumn Scardina, a transgender female-identifying attorney in the Denver area, called Phillips to demand a custom cake celebrating his gender transition after he heard the Supreme Court would consider the initial case against the Colorado Civil Rights Commission. Twice, Scardina had already emailed Phillips to call the baker a “bigot” and a “hypocrite” while mocking his religious beliefs in 2012 when the controversy first arose."
So "it" targeted him previously....and then decided to make a FEDERAL case out of it again. These people are sick in the head, and need help.
Anyone who hasn't yet readLive Not By Lies needs to right goddamn now.
Nope. Dreher is a cowardly piece of crap who'd rather posture about how virtuous he is than win with someone messy like Trump. Screw him. I will laugh when the mob comes for him and his family.
I'm not a fan of Dreher either the point remains. Everyone needs a plan for how they are going to keep their souls, families, and consciences intact in a system that is no longer free.
I also recommend Stasiland by Anna Funder.
Imagine if a conservative targeted and harassed a gay-cake baker...
How about this -- Locate several queer bakeries, there're lots of them so it won't be hard. Commission a huge sheet cake from each of them -- a nice flat surface just begging to be filled with something luscious. Here's the kicker, on each cake the baker must write in blood-red icing the text from Saint Paul's Letter to the Romans, Chapter 1, verses 26 through 27.
Each bakery that refuses gets taken to court on the same complaint charged against Jack Phillips.
I'll repeat myself - This Cake baker has been targeted with the left's intolerance and bigoted hatred for years and years. The Supreme court decision didn't do one thing to stop it.
Polis and his leftist minions in the state house, support the hate-filled harassment.
They were targeted in the original case, too. This is what these professional agitators do.
"Philips was in the news years ago after he refused to make a same-sex wedding cake. He's dealt with that problem by not making custom wedding cakes anymore (and, we're told, losing 40% of his business). "
He isn't doing that anymore......
Quaestor - I love that idea.
The antifa-brained freaks targeting the cake baker do not want a cake - they want to harass him. This has nothing to do with actual cake.
Years ago - I heard a clip of an actual voice-mail left on the cake bakers answering machine. It was so-over the top. Laced with threats and profanity. You think these antifa leftists want to celebrate their transitions and homosexuality?
LOL - NO. They want to harass him. Those of you noting the "mental illness" are 100% correct.
State approved mental illness and harassment.
From the article:
In the first go-round, Masterpiece Cakeshop v. Colorado Civil Rights Commission (2018), the Supreme Court ruled 7-2 for Mr. Phillips. But it did so narrowly, on grounds that the commission had displayed “clear and impermissible hostility” to Mr. Phillips’s religious beliefs. (One commissioner compared Mr. Phillips’s invocation of his Christian beliefs to defenses of slavery and the Holocaust.) The court left unresolved the key constitutional question: Can the government compel people to create speech or artistic expressions to which they profoundly object?
Any word on whether that commissioner was removed from office, or at least has recused him/herself in this subsequent case? It isn't like his/her feelings towards Christianity have changed since then.
"Each bakery that refuses gets taken to court on the same complaint charged against Jack Phillips."
Complaints dismissed. Because reasons.
These people are sick in the head,
Late onset M to F are often or usually somewhat autistic and/or sociopathic - in either case, lacking in empathy. "Gender dysphoria" used to be a symptom of autism.
Anyway, this one is a lawyer so probably more sociopathic than autistic.
"This isn't hard, people.
Your hate is showing."
You know what's hateful? Deliberately using the government to force somebody to do something they don't want to because you don't like their religious beliefs.
He must be destroyed...
Honestly if the entire “community” thinks he’s a bigot, why would they even want to pay him for a cake?
Go somewhere else. Isn’t that what the libs usually do - “Boycott”?
Isn't harassing someone because of their religious beliefs illegal?
Has anyone tried this with a Muslim baker?
Democrats are fascists.
We've descended into tyranny when the legal system can be used to inflict such misery upon a private citizen.
You don't need to be a gender studies expert, like you are educating us?, to understand that a cake is a cake is a cake.
You also don't need to be a gender studies expert to understand that a man is a man is a man.
He should just be grateful he’s not being charged with sedition.
I don’t get why the order for the second, Satanic cake. Doesn’t it help the baker’s defense since its evidence that he’s refusing on religious grounds?
Has anyone tried this with a Muslim baker?
Strangely, they get a pass.
So, 'No shoes, no shirt, no service' has always been bullshit?
Good to know.
"That's not the American way!"
Suing someone because you disagree with their religious beliefs is the American way?
If you open your door to selling custom cakes
If you open your door to selling your services as a hip hop singer, then expect a lawsuit if you decline a gig performing for Trump singing Sinatra?
This is tyrannical.
Missing some tags: pettiness, vindictiveness, harassment, cry-bullying
You know, I've never been one for vigilantism, and I hate bullies, but I am coming around to the position that there are an awful lot of people today who need their ass kicked.
No, *compelled speech* is "not the American way". I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.
This is what you get when SCOTUS punts.
if we're not a hateful society?
There's hatred in this story all right, directed at a person who just wants to be left alone.
There is a difference between giant monopolies and small family businesses.
Go somewhere else. Isn’t that what the libs usually do - “Boycott”?
We've ruined that tactic for them by turning them into "buycotts".
What's gender dyspepsia?
Just as Jack Phillips has a right not to bake cakes with messages or images he finds offensive, Ann Althouse has a right to have a blog without comments from specific people she finds offensive, who have been told that they have worn out their welcome. Yet somehow M.E.G. can't get the message, even after having thousands, if not tens of thousands, of her comments deleted as soon as Ann or Meade sees them. She's almost as obnoxious as, and quite a bit stupider than, Autumn Scardina.
Good thing conservatives decided the government had the power to determine who can get married.
Giving the government power to tell people to do what you want works out so well for you all doesn't it?
The leftists are insane.
But conservatives are just being silly. Your arguments are incoherent.
The bad guy in these kind of stories can be identified by figuring out who wants to be left alone, and who wants to crush.
The crusher is the bad guy.
The original “Live Not By Lies” was written by Solzhenitsyn.
Michael K:”I wonder when vexatious litigant comes into this ?”
That’s why they tag team.
Quaestor
Need a non biblical passage. Try the Koran.
OT:
un-verified info.
The Boulder shooter - possibly posted Muslim doctrine.
Freeman Hunt said...
How about people leave this guy alone?
If he wanted the government to define marriage and refuse hospital visitation rights to partners and tax benefits then how much of a complaint does he have?
If your argument is the government cannot compel people to do something that is a good argument.
It should be the same argument you make when you are in power, not just when you are out of power.
dwshelf said...
The bad guy in these kind of stories can be identified by figuring out who wants to be left alone, and who wants to crush.
The crusher is the bad guy.
What will you do when you gain power over other people?
So far people have just been taking turns being the bad guy.
I apologize for feeding the troll.
These antifa nazis think of the most outrageous cake they can think of - then call in an order - get told no - and lose their minds.
When you have a sick mind - this is the drug.
Apology accepted.
Notice how the people who tell you what you can’t say are the same people who tell you what you must say?
In the not to distant future you’ll long for the time when simply remaining silent was sufficient.
He's been all the way to the Supreme Court. He's been vilified locally and in the national press. He is extremely experienced now at the legalities of cake baking. There's a way to set up his business that avoids this confrontation.
He likes the battle.
CStanley: "I don’t get why the order for the second, Satanic cake. Doesn’t it help the baker’s defense since its evidence that he’s refusing on religious grounds?"
I dont believe you have adequately internalized what is actually happening here.
NOTHING "helps" the baker's "case" because he has been targeted for destruction by the left and the left now owns law rnforcement and the judicial branch and no matter how many times the baker might eke out a pyrrhic court "victory", Justice Roberts will always be waiting in the wings to "narrow" the scope of the "win" so as to ensure the baker is sued over and over again.
The process is the punishment and this baker's "crime" in The New Soviet America is his forthright Christianity.
We might not agree with Jack Phillips' religious commitments (though they were pretty conventional up until maybe 20 years ago and still are very widely held), but in maintaining his stand and fighting off these lawsuits, he is defending everyone's freedom. Might be a good idea to contribute to the Alliance for Freedom, which is helping him pay his legal bills.
Levi Starks: "Notice how the people who tell you what you can’t say are the same people who tell you what you must say?
In the not to distant future you’ll long for the time when simply remaining silent was sufficient."
With the Maoists/Stalinists, that which is not expressly forbidden always, ALWAYS, becomes mandatory.
You do not want to be the first "comrade" who stops applauding Stalin......
In case anyone wants to donate. https://www.bouldercounty.org/safety/sheriff/fallen-officer-fund/
In honor of fallen officer Eric Talley.
The police have been bashed by politicians as high up as Biden and Kamala.
Do what you can if you so desire. Thank you.
I am reading The Gulag Archipelago ST but it's a long project.
Drago - yep.
Great reminder to go buy another cake from Jack. I only wish his vicious enemies would have to pay for their abuse of him. What a world.
Kate: "There's a way to set up his business that avoids this confrontation."
Of course there is! He's already taken one step in that direction, no longer doing wedding cakes. (And losing 40% of his business.)
Now if he would only give up making decorated cakes (birthday, anniversary, congratulations on your new job as a sex partner, etc.) he could avoid even more confrontations. Since his business is decorated cakes, he might have to suffer a little more loss of income.
SCOTUS needs to "man up" (yes, I mean that) and fully resolve these disputes, instead of fiddling around their edges due to fears of court packing. So unfair to enable these sham cases against a law-abiding citizen. The goal is to create fear in everyone else, as the process is the punishment.
Great comment to the WSJ editorial, asking why Twitter, Facebook, Google et al get to eliminate ANY message they don't like---but this baker must be forced to produce cakes with ALL messages demanded by a member of a protected class.
Off the top of my head:
A book with decorations. Flower motifs, swirls, whatever. No words. You open the book, you pick five images you like, cake baker makes you a personal cake. When it comes to flavors, he must have a premade list of options. Same difference. You want a more elaborate cake? You get to pick 10 images and pay more money.
This is not his first trip to the rodeo.
Yes, if Christians don't bake tranny cakes, we might, in some totally fictitious far off future, see Christians harassed by lawsuits, discrimination and hate.
As opposed to now.
He's been all the way to the Supreme Court. He's been vilified locally and in the national press. He is extremely experienced now at the legalities of cake baking. There's a way to set up his business that avoids this confrontation.
He likes the battle.
Pretty amazing claim since he did not start "the battle" -- they came to him -- and is under no obligation to "set up his business" in response to harassment from crazy assholes.
Perhaps I am more defiant or stubborn than most, particularly of my gender, but it's astonishing to me that people actually believe that it's reasonable to change your life/business/beliefs to accommodate a crazy asshole who demands that you do so.
Fascism is strong amongst the left...a lot of telling people what they must do.
Now demand that the halal Muslim butcher sell you pork chops.
Demand that a Rabbi or Imam recite Hail Marys at a wedding or funeral.
It's madness and mental illness all the way down.
As she does not explicitly condemn the harassment of Jack Phillips, I infer that Althouse approves of the tactic.
Deleting the troll is fine by me.
Free speech = running your business how you want to.
I am currently in extreme favor of seeing trannies in this country targeted by lawsuits, discrimination and hate by Christians. I will stop being in favor of it when Christians stop being constantly targeted by lawsuits, discrimination and hate by trannys.
Genderphobes are vindictive and persistent. Take a knee. Just do it!
Kate said...
He's been all the way to the Supreme Court. He's been vilified locally and in the national press. He is extremely experienced now at the legalities of cake baking. There's a way to set up his business that avoids this confrontation.
He likes the battle.
Yes. We should all thank him for his willingness to fight the craziness.
The mental illness spawned by feminism continues to devour us.
Once you Pro-Choice, it's a progressive path and grade. #HateLovesAbortion
Off the top of my head:
A book with decorations. Flower motifs, swirls, whatever. No words. You open the book, you pick five images you like, cake baker makes you a personal cake. When it comes to flavors, he must have a premade list of options. Same difference. You want a more elaborate cake? You get to pick 10 images and pay more money.
This is not his first trip to the rodeo.
But what if he doesn't in fact want to do any of that shit? Who are you, who is anyone, to direct his choices?
Open your own bakery that you can micromanage on your own. Patronize whatever bakery has business practices that you like. Avoid those that don't. Mind your own damn business. Is this complicated?
Poor guy.
The process is the punishment,
Dave Chappelle commented about the alphabet mafia, and how vicious the. “T” are in Hollywood.
@IHMMP- I have far less of a defiant temperament than you but I’m in 100% agreement here. I find Kate’s suggestion appalling.
And frankly...even if this baker were to do as she suggests, can we not predict that these assholes would find a way to object to some of the “motifs” in his design book as dog whistles? If they win the battle in forcing him to give up all expression in order to avoid coerced expression, the next step will be to prove that he is in fact continuing to offer cakes with hidden messages.
There is a very obvious difference between refusing to serve someone because they are X, and refusing to be forced to actively participate in endorsing and celebrating X.
The former is illegal (though I would prefer true freedom of association), the latter has never been held to be, because the USSC punted.
The deliberate conflating of these two very obviously different things is what marks the troll as a troll, and why I also have no problem with the deletions. No good faith argument is being deleted here.
Imagine if a conservative targeted and harassed a gay-cake baker...
Already been done, the Powers That Be refused to get involved, because
https://archive.thinkprogress.org/this-baker-refused-to-bake-an-anti-gay-cake-heres-why-that-s-not-discrimination-bbfabf6e75e8/
In March of 2014, Marjorie Silva, owner of Azucar, refused to make cakes that included two Bible verses: “God hates sin. Psalm 45:7” and “Homosexuality is a detestable sin. Leviticus 18:2[2].”because his request included “derogatory language and imagery.”
As UCLA Law Professor Eugene Volokh predicted, Colorado law protects discrimination against people based on their belonging to certain classes, not based on their ideas and messages.
NO ONE can be forced to ice Bible Passages, because the Bible includes “derogatory language and imagery.”
I'm a pro choice kind of guy, as in let business owners and customers weigh their options and choose.
As an example, I'm OK with bars and restaurants allowing indoor smoking.
To some customers, it will be a positive thing and the business owner will do well.
To others, it will be a negative and the customers might stay away.
How about we let people make up their own minds?
Now that Antifa has graduated, it's probably just a matter of time before his shop is firebombed.
Good thing conservatives decided the government had the power to determine who can get married.
Penumbras and emanations or Twilight Fringe?
The closest that conservatives have come to acknowledging the sexes is in "our Posterity", which implies one man and one woman, father and mother, and children. A veritable pride parade, but for humans.
"There is a very obvious difference between refusing to serve someone because they are X, and refusing to be forced to actively participate in endorsing and celebrating X."
But this is the entire point!!!
Tolerance is now no longer enough. You must now wholeheartedly sing the praises of the misfits and mentally ill.
It's a 'you will be made to care' situation.
The lefty loons smell blood and they will shove their agenda down your throat until you choke on it. Allusions to oral rape are intentional.
I "cried out" for some comments to be deleted?
Or I stated that I am not opposed to bad faith comments being deleted?
Deliberately conflating a lack of opposition to something as a fevered demand for that something is the exact kind of mendacious bullshit I am not opposed to deletion.
I also don't think it's being particularly defiant to reserve the right to decline participation in someone else's reality. If we don't have the right to say no, what rights do we have?
(For this reason I'm a pretty strong absolutist on freedom of association even in business, but I realize I am in the minority here. I personally don't care if you want to have a dental office or landscaping business that only caters to men or redheads or people with even shoe sizes even if that excludes me. I would rather a bakery refuse to make a cake with scripture on it for my daughter's baptism than not be allowed to say no.)
My religion has nothing to do with it.
I am the most live-and-let-live person anyone will ever meet.
I think these people need psychiatric help and I hope they get it, even if my tax dollars go toward that.
"my transition from male to female."
It's a state or process of divergence from gender (e.g. sexual orientation): masculine and feminine. Unlike trans/homosexuals, trans/neo-genders seek to simulate gender through medical corruption and social changes.
"(For this reason I'm a pretty strong absolutist on freedom of association even in business, but I realize I am in the minority here. I personally don't care if you want to have a dental office or landscaping business that only caters to men or redheads or people with even shoe sizes even if that excludes me. I would rather a bakery refuse to make a cake with scripture on it for my daughter's baptism than not be allowed to say no.)"
I agree with this. The club won't take you? Start your own damn club.
It's bad for business when you start discriminating for any reason, but a business owner should have the option.
Antifa are the democratical left's brownshirts - and they are well funded.
Pants,
If you're a minority in that - and I'm not sure you are - you're at least not alone.
I am also a freedom of association absolutist. I could see an exception being made for monopoly situations, but that's as far an exception as I'd be willing to support.
@ Pants...
If we don't have the right to say no, what rights do we have?
Exactly. If we cannot say NO to our mentally ill tormentors - what rights do we have?
When the top of the heap Governor Polis supports the antifa freaks doing the harassment - what rights do we have? when the left support vote fraud - what rights do we have?
Then again, I'm also in favor of breaking up monopolies, so not sure how much of an "exception" my exception for monopolies really is.
Honest open fair discussion of hot-button issues is the answer...
Sure, try to have an open and fair discussion of hot button issues - see Facebook blocks, Twitter bans, universities taking down factual information it deems "harmful" or "hateful" -see Duke U. investigating posting of George Floyd toxicology report next to Floyd's photograph on a BLM bulletin board.
Nice try...
How about this -- Locate several queer bakeries, there're lots of them so it won't be hard. Commission a huge sheet cake...
My mind goes that direction, and then I think 'to what cause'? My world view does not opperate that way. I like making them live by their own rules. I guess i limit it to the political battle field.
Someone mentioned Muslim bakers. Same thing, I cant abuse people for their beliefs, even if they deserve the treatment, it wont come from me.
Bad faith assumptions that a poster is "Christian" - I'm agnostic - and accusations of racism because I believe freedom of association for racist individuals is far far far less dangerous than the explicitly racist government we currently have - are also unobjectionable targets for deletion.
Jack sells to everyone. If you are gay or a tranny or an evil antifa fuck-head - you can walk in and buy a cake.
Jack's custom decorations have limits. The vile corrupt left cannot stand that they are ever limited and have chosen to harass him for him.
"Why are you baptizing girls?"
Because all children, male, female, other, are baptized in many (most?) Christian religions.
Maybe there is a religion that baptizes only males but I don't know of it.
Autumn Scardina and his fellows are assholes.
The state of CO would like to force you to worship satan smoking a joint.
Try walking into a synagogue, church, or mosque wearing a halter top, or shorts, or a head covering (or a bare head) and see what happens.
You don't get to walk through life having a tantrum 24/7 screaming 'Me me me me me...'
Maybe a big part of it is pure narcissism...people not knowing that they aren't the be-all/end-all in this world.
Have some humility. Be aware that not everything is about you.
Rae said: Isn't harassing someone because of their religious beliefs illegal?
Has anyone tried this with a Muslim baker?}}}}
Yes. Steve Crowder went to a Muslim bakery and asked them to make a wedding cake to celebrate the wedding of him and his (pretend) boyfriend. They refused.
All of this could have been avoided if Mr. Phillips had put that sign up that said “We reserve the right to refuse service.” Some even add the clause “to anyone” making the sign equitable (I hear that’s better than being fair).
SCOTUS, of course, punted and shanked it for zero yards. The reason SCOTUS punted, however, is instructive- Roberts punted on the main issue just to get the two liberals to join the majority opinion so that it wasn't 5-4. For his efforts, he got nothing at all, but probably is still congratulating himself on demonstrating his bipartisanship, while Kagan and Breyer laughed at him behind his back the entire time.
I love "watch out for that slippery slope on the east side of that mountain" arguments even as we've already plummeted 95% of the way down the west side and are about to hit at crater-creating impact velocities.
Great comment to the WSJ editorial, asking why Twitter, Facebook, Google et al get to eliminate ANY message they don't like---but this baker must be forced to produce cakes with ALL messages demanded by a member of a protected class.
This is one of several work arounds.
The issue of course, is there should be no need for a work around.
I guess the the simple process would be for every person to email a drawing of what they want and message if any. Then those that fail to meet standards are turned down because of the standard. Usage of ambiguous terms in every sentence in the standards will give more than enough reason to reject project you don't want to do. You may have to charge $50 to submit an order, refunded from purchase price, just to keep the trolls at bay.
Should not need a work around.
Should have judges with enough spine to put a stop to lawfare.
Book publishers turn down work after they paid for it due to content or view of author.
Nobody takes a Muslim baker to court for a very good reason- they like breathing and having heads.
Kate said...
You spelled "Karen" wrong...
He should bake a cake that says "F**k statism."
The modern Soviet left are all about FORCE.
No one who supports the ongoing harassment of Jack Phillips can ever qualify as "tolerant"
Kate said...
Off the top of my head:
A book with decorations. Flower motifs, swirls, whatever. No words. You open the book, you pick five images you like, cake baker makes you a personal cake. When it comes to flavors, he must have a premade list of options. Same difference. You want a more elaborate cake? You get to pick 10 images and pay more money.
This is not his first trip to the rodeo.
So if you were limited in speech this way....you can choose only these 5 phrases to say and nothing else...would you feel free? If you fought that idea, would it be because you like the fight?
"Twice, Scardina had already emailed Phillips to call the baker a “bigot” and a “hypocrite” while mocking his religious beliefs in 2012 when the controversy first arose."
Sounds like she poisoned her case.
"Sounds like she poisoned her case."
The bloom is off the fondant rose...
"Jack Phillips is again in court for refusing to bake a cake with a message he objects to."
Jack Phillips is again in court for being targeted by progs.
They don't let up. They fight. They aim to crush anyone standing in their way.
Maybe the nice women of America will take note.
"Jack Phillips is again in court for refusing to bake a cake with a message he objects to."
Jack Phillips is again in court for refusing to bake a cake with a message to which he objects.
Just trying to keep our hostess happy : )
I hate you I hate you I hate you...
Please bake me a cake and decorate with this offensive crap. If you don't - I'll sue.
This is the corrupt left in a nutshell.
Jack Phillips should sue the State of Colorado and Autumn Scardina for conspiracy to violate Jack's civil rights. Every member of the Colorado Civil Rights Commission should be included as defendants. He should ask for $100 million in damages, tripled because of RICO violations. Put these intolerant leftists on defense.
CStanley asked: I don’t get why the order for the second, Satanic cake. Doesn’t it help the baker’s defense since its evidence that he’s refusing on religious grounds?}}}}
You can make that argument, and I certainly would.
I have read everything I can on these actions against Phillips, and I think that the Satan cake was the Jerk's attempt to claim his own religious standing. As in, "Jack, you can't fall back on 1st Amendment protections of your religious beliefs, because I too have a 1st Amendment right to have my religious beliefs accommodated.
Some cancelled “transphobe” should offer to hire Scardina as his lawyer and then sue Scardina when he won’t accept.
Achilles replied: How about people leave this guy alone?
If he wanted the government to define marriage and refuse hospital visitation rights to partners and tax benefits then how much of a complaint does he have? }}}}
What facts do you have to show that Jack Phillips wanted the government not to recognize gay marriage?
Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's.
"If your argument is the government cannot compel people to do something that is a good argument.
"It should be the same argument you make when you are in power, not just when you are out of power."
Are you under the impression that I'm normally in favor of the government compelling people to do things? That would be a misapprehension.
At what point is this type of lawsuit deemed frivolous and a form of harassment?
Kate suggested: Off the top of my head:
A book with decorations. Flower motifs, swirls, whatever. No words. You open the book, you pick five images you like,...]]]]
I'll bet you could understand why that is a false option if you thought about it. For, like, 2 seconds. How many people want to go to a baker because it's some sort of special occasion, pay for a cake that costs a lot more than a grocery store sheet cake, and yet have the cake be completely impersonal?
If your favorite flowers are purple morning glories (mine is), but morning glory flowers are not among the options, and even dark purple flowers in general are not a listed option, too bad. The cake may say Happy Anniversary---but it doesn't say Happy 50th Anniversary, Joe and Betty. A photo of that generic cake is certain to become a treasured family momento! Your kid may be a diving champion but the cake can only honor more typical sporting achievements---but hey, too bad for her, right? She should have taken up soccer or football if she wanted a special cake.
Private business. Isn't that what the leftists were screeching when Twitter, FB and all those other private businesses were banning conservatives and Dr. Seuss books?
BidenFamily (et al) said: The state of CO would like to force you to worship satan smoking a joint.}}}}
Oh, it's worse than that. The Jerk ordered the cake to also have a mechanical revolving huge dildo emerge from the top.
"How many people want to go to a baker because it's some sort of special occasion, pay for a cake that costs a lot more than a grocery store sheet cake, and yet have the cake be completely impersonal?"
You are missing the point, comrade.
All of our accomplishments are nothing compared to the glory of the State.
We are all the same in the eyes of our wise and benevolent Uncle Joe.
It is for that reason that we wear drab, olive jump suits that honor the great Hillary.
Please report for reeducation training.
Don't make us ask you twice.
I guess it would really suck to live in CO and be named Christian Baker : )
If I were a non-Christian cake baker I'd say NO to the request for a decoration anything LIKE a satan joint smoking dildo cake.
Could the corrupt left sue me? This is not about his Christian faith at all anymore - this is about a pack of lunatic antifa left-wing democratic mentally ill rage-filled sociopaths. - acting out their obsessive hate and loathing - and it's all sanctioned by Polis and his goons.
BidenFamily (et al) said: If I were a non-Christian cake baker I'd say NO to the request for a decoration anything LIKE a satan joint smoking dildo cake.
Could the corrupt left sue me? This is not about his Christian faith at all anymore...}}}}
I believe that you could easily be sued, because unfortunately the Satanists have been recognized as a religious group in prior court cases. They would make their best case if they allege that they want the cake as part of their religious expression. And as we know, they can always allege that you refused their order because of other protected characteristics. That alleged connection might be harder for them to prove, though---I could theoretically order such a cake from you and claim that you only refused the order because I am a woman.
i started out one of those people who couldn't care less if gays and lesbians wanted to make their relationship a legal one. it had no effect on my life. If it made their lives better, then let's do it. I didn't care if a guy wanted to cut off his penis and take hormones to grow breasts. Why he'd want to it was beyond me, but if it made him happy, so what? But they've turned me into someone who does care, and not in their favor. I wonder how much support the LGBT folks have lost, and is it more than they gained?
If gender is a social construct fabricated by the wicked, evil Patriarchy in order to acquire and maintain unmerited control of all mankind, why on Earth would one mutilate one’s body in order to conform to the evil Patriarchy's fabricated social construct?
I hope the baker saves the hate-voice mails he has received. I've heard a few played on local radio over the years. It's non stop.
I was the president of Honeywell's Pride council when the company first offered benefits for same-sex partners as marriage was not an option. The voicemails I received were revealing. One guy left several messages providing incredibly detailed descriptions of what he believed was how gay men had sex. I mean extremely graphic. I suspect that as soon as he hung up, he masturbated to a quick climax. This shit comes from all sides.
More evidence of seething hate from the 'love wins' crowd.
☪☮e✡-ı☯s✝
@Eleanor,
I think within political movements there are groups that want to convince others to join their cause and those that want to crush all opposition.
The latter has won in this instance, so they really don’t care if these tactics are destructive- that’s actually the point.
I also think in this case they hijacked the movement which was doing just fine in slowly changing hearts and minds. But IMO the people that wanted to just gain acceptance and equal rights were also a bit swayed to lean the other way by the decision to fight for “marriage” instead of “civil unions”. That was a tipping point that hardened people’s views on both sides.
The next happy couple needs to pick a Muslim baker. This Christian thing is getting boring.
the 'love wins' crowd
They need to lose their Pro-Choice religion. #HateLovesAbortion
Unfortunately, for trans/neogenders, John Hopkins conducted gender conversion therapy, and determined that genderphobia is not mitigated through physical corruption, and will progress in individuals with physical dissonance. This is why trans/homosexuals, who are otherwise stable, have sought to socially distance themselves from these bands in the transgender spectrum.
Honeywell's Pride council
Lions, lionesses, and their [unPlanned] cubs playing in gay abandon? Sounds like an exotic place to work.
If he agreed to bake these cakes, only a fool would eat them.
It might have a certain je ne sais quois.
Some cancelled “transphobe” should offer to hire Scardina as his lawyer and then sue Scardina when he won’t accept.
A transphobe hiring a genderphobe. Cosmic irony.
"The state can force me to be vulgar and pornographic?"
Theoretically, if it ties into a protected class. No one may discriminate on the grounds of race, sex, religion, national origin etc. etc. Makes a great law school discussion topic. What if Jack will make cakes that have Christian symbols and Jewish symbols but not Muslim or Satanic symbols?
Ironically, the support to normalize, not merely tolerate, individuals in the transgender spectrum (e.g. trans/homosexuals, trans/neogenders), has a religious motive, backed by progressives and atheists. Too bad that they are Pro-Choice and politically congruent ("=").
I wonder how long people would stand someone's abusive ex to keep swinging by their place of work. This was nearly a decade ago; leave the baker alone.
"But they've turned me into someone who does care, and not in their favor."
What they're after is to make you care. And it doesn't matter to them if, in your heart, you really don't care, just as long as they can force you to publicly pretend that you do. In fact, they'd prefer that.
Pants, thank you, going to get that book.
And nice to see you!
Matt Sablan - good point. What is taking place is vile stalking and harassment.
You need a pornographic cake? Go find a pornographic baker.
Richard Aubrey (& others saying similar),
The next happy couple needs to pick a Muslim baker. This Christian thing is getting boring.
I am not so sure that Islam trumps transphobia any more. Consider that exceedingly hairy transwoman -- Jessica Yaniv, I think? -- who went from business to business in Canada, concentrating on Muslim women who worked from home, trying to get them to do a Brazilian wax on xir (?) intact male genitalia, and suing them for gender-identity discrimination when they wouldn't. When last I checked, her cases were not doing terribly well, but still she had caused a couple of salons to shutter their doors.
He should bake the cake.... at a markup of ten times the asking price, and then promptly and publicly donate the profits to Focus on the Family, with a loud "thank you" to the transgendered community for enabling the donation and supporting the great work that Focus on the family does.
I mean, this transgendered bigot/hater certainly is expecting to pay for this cake? Not to get it for free, right? And certainly Jack has a right to set his prices... so what if the "hateful bigoted trans supporting cake" costs a ton more.
I downloaded Live Not By Lies to my kindle and will be my next read. Thanks, Pants, for the tip. Sounds like just what we need right now.
I'm Not Sure said...
What they're after is to make you care. And it doesn't matter to them if, in your heart, you really don't care, just as long as they can force you to publicly pretend that you do. In fact, they'd prefer that.
What they're going to discover is that there are Americans who are real men. And who will make them pay an usurious price for that forcing.
500 million firearms in private hands in America
Greg The Class Traitor said...
"What they're going to discover is that there are Americans who are real men. And who will make them pay an usurious price for that forcing."
I have no doubt you're right. The loony left has been pushing and pushing and pushing, and there will come a time when patient people on the right won't be pushed any further. I have no idea when or what it will be that ends up being the last straw but sure as sunrise, it's coming.
I have no doubt you're right. The loony left has been pushing and pushing and pushing, and there will come a time when patient people on the right won't be pushed any further.
IMO, this is what they really want. An excuse to implement martial law and keep us locked up forever. Or in re-education camps. And I'm not kidding.
"500 million firearms in private hands in America"
The amount of ammunition boggles the mind.
Millions of firearms, trillions of rounds of ammo... and no Green Zone.
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