February 9, 2021

"It’s as much a war movie as anything else, with a woman as the general, and her gender isn’t the chink in her armor."

Wrote Frank Bruni, in the NYT last October, in "Sigourney Weaver Goes Her Own Way/Delivering performances both profound and eccentric, the actress has refused to be pinned down or defined throughout her nearly half-century career. At 71, she’s still going her own (mischievous) way." 

There were 9 other articles with the word "chink" in The New York Times in 2020. Today, the NYT's delightful word puzzle "Spelling Bee" challenges us to make words out of these letters....

... and it rejects the word "chink." If you try to enter it, you'll be told "Not in word list." 

I wasn't surprised to see this. I'd long observed the Spelling Bee's rejection of the word "coon," which can be a racial slur but, obviously, is also what people who call an opossum a "possum" call a raccoon. Last November, I blogged (at great length) about the Spelling Bee's rejection of the word "nappy."

The reason I'm blogging about this issue again, with "chink," is that the NYT printed the word "chink" 20 times in its own articles in 2020! When is a bad word so bad it's censored when it appears in a non-bad context? Take a position.

You know what? I took a position back in 2012. ESPN had fired a reporter for using the phrase "chink in the armor" in a headline that was about a Chinese basketball player. I felt sorry for the reporter, who'd used "chink in the armor" many times before and didn't mean to crack a joke about the player's race, but I wrote:

[L]et me say something cold-hearted: This is what happens when you use clichés. George Orwell told you long ago — in "Politics and the English Language": "Never use a metaphor, simile, or other figure of speech which you are used to seeing in print." Not only did you use one, your defense — other than that Christian business — is that you've used that same tired old figure of speech over and over and over again.
A newly invented metaphor assists thought by evoking a visual image, while on the other hand a metaphor which is technically "dead" (e.g. iron resolution) has in effect reverted to being an ordinary word and can generally be used without loss of vividness. But in between these two classes there is a huge dump of worn-out metaphors which have lost all evocative power and are merely used because they save people the trouble of inventing phrases for themselves. Examples are: Ring the changes on, take up the cudgel for, toe the line, ride roughshod over, stand shoulder to shoulder with, play into the hands of, no axe to grind, grist to the mill, fishing in troubled waters, on the order of the day, Achilles' heel, swan song, hotbed...
... and chink in the armor.

Nobody even wears armor anymore, and the word "chink" is only used — other than in its moronic racial denotation — in that dying metaphor. Here's my rule: No one should ever use the expression "chink in the armor" again. Fire everyone who lets it go out in a final draft of anything.

Why was the NYT using the word "chink" in 10 articles in 2020? Wait. Let me make the use/mention distinction. (We were talking about the use/mention distinction just yesterday.) The quote in the post headline above is a use of the word, and it's in the "chink in the armor" cliché. 

Here's the rest of the lot, in reverse chronological order. You can test yourself to identify what is a use and what is a mention, and you can also check my assertion that the only use of "chink" other than "in its moronic racial denotation" is in the phrase "chink in the armor."

1. "It’s not just older people who have abnormally high levels of inflammation, or chinks in their immunological armor." 

2. "There’s a section toward the end when you think she might be about to offer a glimmer of hope, a chink of light, but you turn the page and the darkness rises again, cold as the North Sea." 

3. From "The Slur I Never Expected to Hear in 2020/As an Asian-American, I’ve been conditioned to a certain kind of unspoken racism. This pandemic has unmasked how vicious it really is": "As he was leaving the elevator, he said, 'Don’t bring that Chink virus here.'... I never would have thought that the word 'Chink' would have a resurgence in 2020."... 'I don’t open the doors for Chinks!' he yelled.... Another friend, a nurse, was called a 'dirty Chink' by her patient, who had Covid-19." 

4. "'Run on before I have you lynched,' the man says. Looking straight at Sam. 'Run on, you filthy. Little. Chink.'" 

5. "'To me it’s very short sighted,' Dmitri Trenin, the director of the Moscow Carnegie Center, said of the former Soviet leaders’ minimizing the epidemic. 'If you say, "Well, we are an island in a stormy sea and that is because of me," then you’ve cloaked yourself in armor that doesn’t allow a single chink. If there is one chink, your credibility goes down."'" 

6. "In 'On a Certain Blindness,' [William] James describes the trip: '... The impression on my mind was one of unmitigated squalor. [A settler family] had then built a log cabin, plastering its chinks with clay....'" 

7. "The cancellation of the Royal Opera performances were the latest indication of a chink in [Placido] Domingo’s European armor." 

8. "And yet my behavior still strikes me as practical, the only way to ensure that, in life’s arena, no chink in the armor will be exposed to another gladiator’s spear." 

9. "Knobby whelks, scotch bonnets, Queen Helmet conchs — the shells, once hard exoskeletons for soft-bodied sea creatures, were chinked with tide-tumbled battle scars."

##3 and 4 are mentions of "chink," and in both, the meaning is the moronic racial use. (Side note: Is "moronic" doomed?!) All the rest, including the one about Sigourney Weaver, are uses of the word. 

The "chink in the armor" cliché dominates, but I'm proven wrong in my assertion that it's the only non-racial usage these days. "Chink" is used outside of the armor context in ##2, 6, and 9. 

##2 and 6 are relatively fresh, straining toward the poetic. So I'm proven wrong, and it will do no good for me to argue that #6 doesn't count because it's in a quote from long ago — 1899, to be exact:

In 1899, the year after his trip to San Francisco, William James published his “Talks to Teachers and Students,” a series of lectures.... When it was published, William highlighted one lecture for special consideration, a talk entitled “On a Certain Blindness in Human Beings.” (Today, we’d think again about the author’s use of the word blindness, which associates the physical state of blindness with ignorance.)

And there's another censorship topic, blindness. But I'll stop now.

NOTE: If the NYT followed the rule I (satirically) announced back in 2012, it would have fired Frank Bruni.

86 comments:

rhhardin said...

Using an insult when an insult is meant isn't moronic. You need the context.

rhhardin said...

As a moron, I object to "moronic," as if all morons are alike.

rehajm said...

If the NYT followed the rule I (satirically) announced back in 2012, it would have fired Frank Bruni.

Rules don't apply to NYT...

Lewis Wetzel said...

Part of the arsenal of totalitarianism is that there are no rules.
Rules are restrictive by nature. They tell you what you can or cannot do. They have limits that can be worked around. In the totalitarian state, the law would provide you some protection from the state, so there are no laws. Follow what you think are the rules and you can still be tortured and destroyed.
In Nineteen Eighty-Four, their were no laws. There was only the will of Big Brother.

Retail Lawyer said...

Motorcyclists wear armor in their jackets and pants. And armor is used on battle tanks.

Crimso said...

Do you really need the "George Orwell" tag on anything anymore? Isn't it implied in just about everything?

Kai Akker said...

---I took a position back in 2012

Nine years later -- I'd say you're due to take another.


tim maguire said...

No one uses "chink" as a racial slur against Chinese. And no one has in decades. If someone says "chink" anywhere outside the context of slurring a Chinese person, anyone claiming that is the meaning is acting in bad faith. A healthier society would sanction the person shouting "slur!" and not the person making the harmless word choice.

Kai Akker said...


;) !

Retail Lawyer said...

Word processors should warn on these words, and they should be updated frequently so they they keep up with the times, and so people don't get fired for a mistake.

mockturtle said...

The Orwell tag is appropriate. In 1984, vocabulary was limited by design to limit expression of ideas and, as a result, of ideas themselves.

mockturtle said...

The flap about niggardly was bad enough.

David Begley said...

Frank is immune.

Jeff Brokaw said...

Using a tired old phrase is grounds for firing people? What happened to good old criticism? Remember when criticism was the go to move? Those were the days.

We need to regain our grip on what a firing offense is. Using tired old phrases is not it.

rehajm said...

Also body armor. If you have the means I do suggest picking some up...

rhhardin said...

Most morons don't bait Chinese at all. They're involved in leftist politics and often hunting down republicans.

God of the Sea People said...

Even assuming that someone intends to use "chink in the armor" to convey the moronic/bigoted meaning, it is nonsensical in that context, and conveys less actual meaning than the tired metaphor does. "Chink in the armor" is understood to mean a flaw in something intended to be defensive, and I can think of lots of instances where conveying that meaning would be useful. I can't think of any instance where the bigoted meaning, taken literally, would be of any use.

rhhardin said...

As for cliches, they're how you learn the language as a kid. You learn to disassemble and reassemble cliches.

That's how native English has so many hidden rules, hidden even from its speakers. You have to know the cliches to know what form goes with what form.

wendybar said...

"Former tennis pro Doug Adler maintains he was describing Williams’ aggressive style last month as “guerrilla” tactics and not comparing her to a “gorilla.” He apologized for his poor word choice but was let go from ESPN mid-tournament."

The left is ALL about cancelling people just because. This has been going on for years. Wake up. You may be next!!!

Fernandinande said...

The U.S. PTO prevented "The Slants" from registering their name until they sued and won.

tim in vermont said...

I kikd of agree that lazy, careless, and listless writing should get you fired from the New York Times, but Gail Collins still works there.

tcrosse said...

Not as bad as a chink in the woodpile.

rhhardin said...

An oriental in the woodpile.

iowan2 said...

We need to regain our grip on what a firing offense is. Using tired old phrases is not it.

Yes. Why the firing? How many chances does Biden get for creeping on prepubescent girls?

OK, just practicing my "everything is Joes fault" position.

But why cant you just bring the offender in and explain what is wrong, how to correct it and future consequences?

Curious George said...

Pekin Community High School in Pekin, IL team name was the Chinks until 1981!

"According to the accepted lore, the town was christened Pekin in 1830 by the wife of the city’s founder. She was inspired by the popular notion that the city was just about opposite on the globe from the Chinese capital city of Peking. This romanticizing of Chinese culture grew along with Pekin. The downtown theater was decorated as a Chinese pagoda, and Chinese-looking lettering was visible in many businesses.”

"The earliest known nickname was The Celestials. The school also tried out Robots and Reds. But around 1930, the school settled on the nickname that would endure for 50 years: The Chinks.

The Chinks’ earliest mascot representation was Mr. Bamboo, an affable coolie whose pudgy smile was accentuated by a traditional pigtail haircut and tiny pillbox-style hat. The real-life mascot spot was later filled by two representatives from the student body, Chink and Chinkette. The students bearing these honorifics wore shiny red silk jackets, as well as the cone-shaped paddy hats that Americans associate with Asian field workers. Their responsibilities included walking solemnly out at halftime to cross their arms and bow before the visiting team’s representative. They would also bow and strike a gong after each touchdown.

The school gained notoriety after twice winning the state basketball championship during the 1960s. In celebration of the 1967 championship, the city council signed a resolution declaring it to be “Chinks Week."

wendybar said...

rhhardin said...
An oriental in the woodpile.

2/9/21, 7:46 AM

My Sister in law in San Francisco told me Oriental was offensive. I told her she had better stay out of New Jersey then, because I am surrounded by places like Oriental Nails, and Oriental Rugs.......

rhhardin said...

China is asshole.

tcrosse said...

IIRC there was a Seinfeld episode where either Jerry or George got in trouble for this very thing.

Eric the Fruit Bat said...

So why is bohunk a slur but hunk is a compliment?

And who doesn't want to be a hunka hunka burning love?

Ann Althouse said...

"The Orwell tag is appropriate. In 1984, vocabulary was limited by design to limit expression of ideas and, as a result, of ideas themselves."

It's also appropriate because I name him, name an essay of his, and quote the essay.

tim maguire said...

Fernandinande said...The U.S. PTO prevented "The Slants" from registering their name until they sued and won.

(Possibly?) interesting factoid: Their lawyer was Ron Coleman, who was briefly famous around here as a Republican poll watcher in Philly and an early legal adviser to the Trump post-election effort.

rhhardin said...

The Random House Webster's College Dictionary rates words on how offensive they are, enabling epithet high scoring contests. It's probably hard to keep up to date.

tcrosse said...

Next they will come after the slippery slope.

gilbar said...

serious question
shouldn't it be "the c-word"? or, at least ch*nk?
I mean, obviously, SOME people feel bad about it.

Just kidding! i Knew that the whole
I didn't want to make anybody feel bad. If there was a special group with a special sensitivity about the word, I just felt bad that I didn't know about it before, and I would never use it again. That's the kind of ethics I learned as a child.

was a LOAD of CRAP, and that you'd Never Actually meant it

chuck said...

I went and read -- OK, skipped through -- the linked article. Wow, boring. And Colbert's stinky burrito joke didn't help.

rhhardin said...

He who fling mud lose ground.

Kathy from Boston said...

Wendy Bar -- That same example from the tennis match came to my mind. It really exposed the ignorance of those who immediately jumped to the conclusion that the reporter was using the word "gorilla".
And to think he lost his job over this.

Bob Boyd said...

it will do no good for me to argue that #6 doesn't count because it's in a quote from long ago — 1899, to be exact:

Chink is a verb or a noun. To chink is to apply chinking. It's not just something from long ago and it's no longer considered squalid.
Chinking is commonly applied to high end log and plank-sided homes today, just for the rustic look. There are a number of specialized products, available in a range of colors, made specifically for this purpose. You can buy it in tubes like caulk or in 5 gallon buckets.
Just search chinking.

Freder Frederson said...

Am I mistaken or did we not have this conversation about the word niggardly a few years back. At that time you didn't think it should be used because it sounds like another word, even though it is spelled differently and it's etymology is from an entirely different language (Middle English and Norse rather than Spanish/Portugese).

MadTownGuy said...

Would 'anti-Occident' be better?

Mary Beth said...

I call an opossum a "possum" but don't call a raccoon a "coon".

I don't hear people using "chink" to refer to a person, even when that person is speaking poorly of the Chinese. (The only people I can think of that I remember saying negative things about Chinese were Japanese who still hold a grudge. While they used some choice words, "chink" wasn't one of them.)

Freder Frederson said...

Would 'anti-Occident' be better?

Don't you mean antioxidant?

MadisonMan said...

@tcrosse: Indeed. (Also, that made me laugh!)

Freder Frederson said...

I don't hear people using "chink" to refer to a person, even when that person is speaking poorly of the Chinese.

You don't get out enough.

pacwest said...

I had a short nip last night. Almost got whopped over the head when I told her everything needed to be spic and span.

Jupiter said...

You're enjoying this, aren't you, Althouse. You think Trump has been dispatched, and your liberal friends will all calm down now, and it will go back the way it used to be. There are just a few more wounded lying around to be interrogated and shot, and then it will all be nicey-nicey again in lovely Madison by the lakes, won't it. Tell me, have they put the glass back in the shop windows?

Man is the only predator that manages to stay on good terms with his prey until he is ready to eat it.

clint said...

I'm surprised 4Chan or a Reddit group hasn't weaponized this yet.

Start making up offensive slurs out of useful words and get the wokerati to cancel those words.

Levi Starks said...

The NYT could have completed the OED much quicker.

tim maguire said...

Kathy from Boston said...It really exposed the ignorance of those who immediately jumped to the conclusion that the reporter was using the word "gorilla".

When you really look at what's wrong with how we interact in society, it all comes down to our shitty educational system, doesn't it? And instead of educating the ignorant, we use their ignorance as a weapon to beat people with. And not even for any substantial reason, just to make us feel superior to someone. No one in particular, anyone will do.

Sebastian said...

"[L]et me say something cold-hearted: This is what happens when you use clichés."

Let me say something even more cold-hearted. This is what happens when you are a nice liberal woman who focuses on words as language rather than as weapons in the culture war.

Progs are scorching the earth, letting nice non-progs issue their laments for now. But woe to any deviant wrongthinker: cancellation awaits, mid-tournament if necessary, 40+-year career no defense.

Krumhorn said...

And then there is the unrelenting assault on the names of sports teams. Braves and Chiefs seem utterly harmless. Indians is borderline. Reds is clearly problematic. Squaw Valley is next on the firing line.

Lucy Liu in a police vest had better be invincible, or Bruin has a problem if he uses that line again.

- Krumhorn

Oso Negro said...

Sorry, delicate flowers, but this post has finally converted me to the idea that we should embrace and encourage ethnic slurs. Someone was called a "chink"? Oh, boo hoo hoo. If a single word is so devastating that you are reduced to tears, you probably lack the psychological buoyance to survive past 30 anyway. Toughen up! Quit letting the mavens of lefty language dictate what you may and may not say! Free your minds! Loosen your tongues!

TheOne Who Is Not Obeyed said...

"...and her gender isn't the chink in her armor."

He means "her sex". But he can't say that anymore.

rhhardin said...

I take human rights seriously. You know, everybody's equal, color, creed or circumstance. We're all the same on this planet. - Except the Chinese.
- What?
No, they are. They're the odd ones out if you had to pick one. No, I'm not having a go. I'm just saying, you know, not their faces. I mean...
No, no.
But they call each other - things like Kwok... -
Stop it. You're gonna...
...and that's their choice, and they don't have to call a kid Kwok. And they...
No.
Some people are called Pong...
- Stop, please, stop.
...and there's about a million Wangs. You can have... You have one kid, you can use all those names on one little... You could call a kid Kwok Pong Wang.

Ghost Town (2008)

Krumhorn said...

Paducah will fall next

- Krumhorn

Wince said...

Just another chink
Cuts and dents,
They catch the light
Aluminum, the weakest link


E-Bow the Letter

I'll take you over
It tastes like fear, there
I'll take you over...

Will you live to 83?
Will you ever welcome me?
Will you show me something that nobody else has seen?
Smoke it, drink
Here comes the flood
Anything to thin the blood
These corrosives do their magic slowly and sweet
Phone, eat it, drink

Just another chink
Cuts and dents,
They catch the light
Aluminum, the weakest link

I don't want to disappoint you
I'm not here to anoint you
I would lick your feet
But is that the sickest move?
I wear my own crown and sadness and sorrow
And who'd have thought tomorrow could be so strange?
My loss,
And here we go again

Conservachusetts said...

Chink in the armor is neither use nor mention. It is a different word entirely (although spelled the same).

tcrosse said...

So much gobbledy-gook.

Kevin said...

As Lenny Bruce might point out, “If you can't say "Chink" you can't say, "It's the Chink Virus.”

mockturtle said...

So, what do we call coonhounds now?

stevew said...

Pretty sure I've never used that phrase, chink in the armor, but not because of the reasons Althouse and Orwell give, nor because of the included Chinese slur word.

Krumhorn said...

Is chink in the armor her Achilles heel? The Greeks should be furious if they weren’t so busy pegging.

- Krumhorn (I am not Laslo...even if sometimes I wish I were)

Francisco D said...

"Chink in the armor" strikes me as a useful phrase. I have not seen the word used in any other way for several decades.

Temujin said...

I would say that Joe Biden is a chink in the armor of the US. It's a natural tie-in.

Joe Smith said...

Well, if you are talking about a Beijing denizen wearing metallic medieval garb, then it would, indeed, be offensive.

But has the NYT banned the word 'Cracker'?

If not, why not?

Joe Smith said...

"To chink is to apply chinking. It's not just something from long ago and it's no longer considered squalid."

Anyone who watches 'Barnwood Builders' will know this.

But the word should be banned anyway because the guys on the show are all white and have thick West Virginia accents...

: )

Skeptical Voter said...

Well Frank Bruni's "slant" on Sigourney Weaver as a general with a "chink" in her armor is going down a slippery "slope". But sometimes a word is just a word.

FWBuff said...

Ann, as you noted, "chink" isn't allowed in today's Spelling Bee puzzle.

But "hick" is allowed. Unlike chink, which has several inoffensive uses, hick is only used in a pejorative way and usually against poor white rural people.

If the puzzlemaster and editor allow hick, then they should also allow chink.

Wilbur said...

Curious George, I remember when Pekin had those good teams back in the 60s. Back then the Illinois HS basketball tournament was a big deal.

I remember in parochial grade school they would wheel TVs into the classrooms (for the older grades) to watch the Friday Elite 8 in the afternoon. Then someone got the brilliant idea to separate the high schools into different classes, and public interest quickly withered and died.

Wilbur said...

Mary Beth said...
The only people I can think of that I remember saying negative things about Chinese were Japanese who still hold a grudge.
_____________________________________________________________
I think the Chinese have a bigger grudge against the Japanese.

Funny, this morning I played golf with an 84 year-old man from China, who immigrated here a long time ago. Nice fellow, but he wanted to talk more than play golf. Had to keep him moving ...

effinayright said...

rhhardin said...
As for cliches, they're how you learn the language as a kid. You learn to disassemble and reassemble cliches.

That's how native English has so many hidden rules, hidden even from its speakers. You have to know the cliches to know what form goes with what form.
***********

A very bad old joke claimed an Italian immigrant wanted to give his new-born son an American name.

So he named him "Sonny Bitch".

(I denounce myself, so don't bother)

Matt said...

"is also what people who call an opossum a 'possum' call a raccoon."

Not exactly, at least in Texas. Outside of extremely formal contexts like an academic paper, possum is the only word used to describe the grey marsupial. You could use it in almost any situation in almost any company. Coon, on the other hand, is an very informal way of saying raccoon. It's not really used in mixed company or around strangers. It seems mostly to be used in certain set phrases or by older men. Everybody knows it's a racial slur.

effinayright said...

Fernandinande said...
The U.S. PTO prevented "The Slants" from registering their name until they sued and won.
************

Just think of all the times judges and lawyers have slimed Asians by referring to "the slippery slope".

LA_Bob said...

English is a very rich language, but I get a little concerned about the narrowing of that richness when more and more words are appropriated for controversial purposes.

"Gay" used to mean happy (think The Flintstones closing credit song lyric, "We'll have a gay old time" or "The world is merry and gay" in "What Do the Simple Folk Do" from Camelot).

Not anymore.

Then there was the insult, "That is so gay", adopted by young adults who meant no slur against homosexuals.

Seems likely almost any adjective can be roped into insulting usage. And when the right constituency takes offense it must be banned. Probably the human thing to do, but to me it's sad and senseless.

LA_Bob said...

"Would 'anti-Occident' be better?

Don't you mean antioxidant?"

Freder, that was hilarious.

Sterling said...

Shakespeare used "chink" often in A Mid Summer's Night Dream.
Act 5, Scene one used it four times. Imagine the horror of high school English teachers!
And through Wall's chink, poor souls, they are content
To whisper. At the which let no man wonder.
---
(and with semicolons!)
In this same interlude it doth befall
That I, one Snout by name, present a wall;
And such a wall, as I would have you think,
That had in it a crannied hole or chink,
Through which the lovers, Pyramus and Thisby,
Did whisper often very secretly.
---
Thou wall, O wall, O sweet and lovely wall,
Show me thy chink, to blink through with mine eyne!
--
I see a voice: now will I to the chink,
To spy an I can hear my Thisby's face. Thisby!

LA_Bob said...

'Just think of all the times judges and lawyers have slimed Asians by referring to "the slippery slope".'

There's a Chinese Christian church near me with a walkway ending in a short steep slope. A sign next to it says, "Beware of slant".

James K said...

In the Sunday beehive puzzle last week, 'dildo' was not in the approved list. This past Sunday, "fellate" was not approved. The NYT seems to have some prudishness, though they do allow "labia" and "labial."

Daniel Jackson said...

"Chink" is so "Kitch"

Lurker21 said...

Saying "chink" isn't racist.

Neither is wearing blackface.

Sarah Silverman explained it to me.

n.n said...

The feminine gender, despite social progress, is not a deficit. Neither is the masculine gender.

n.n said...

as if all morons are alike

Yes, bad judgment is rarely diversitist, but it does often rhyme.

Michelle Dulak Thomson said...

I dispute that "coon" is now almost exclusively a racial slur. Are we supposed to call it a Maine Raccoon Cat? (Full disclosure: I own one of those, only she's about half regulation size. Same semi-long brown/gray tabby fur and tufted ears and chirruping trill in her voice, though.) Did Davy Crockett wear a raccoonskin cap? And, as someone says above, there are coonhounds. Presumably now one must say raccoonhounds? (Spell check is fine with "coonhounds," btw.)

gpm said...

>>Shakespeare used "chink" often in A Mid Summer's Night Dream.

Damn. I wanted to be the one to make that point but, as ever, I am behind the times in Althouse commenting.

I have a vague recollection of the Beatles once being involved in a presentation of the Pyramus and Thisbe scene.

--gpm

virgil xenophon said...

In SW Louisiana "Cajun Country" another (often affectionate) appellation is "coon-ass." In fact, the Louisiana Af Nat Guard was once known semi-officially as the "Coon-ass Air Force" with a depiction on its fighter aircraft tail-fins of a grinning raccoon flashing his rear end until some non-Louisiana raised black officer on an inspection team when they were out West in Nev. for Bomb & Gunnery practice in the early 80s logged a formal complaint & HQ AF nixed the whole deal..

Bunkypotatohead said...

Our national pastime seems to be finding reasons to take offense.
We are a degraded culture, but it's disappointing to see chinamen going this way too.