"No police officers were in view. In a room where there were images of mountains and maps of Oregon on the wall, a man in a leather jacket ripped a scroll with Chinese characters. A young man put a framed picture of the Dalai Lama in his backpack. 'We’re claiming the House, and the Senate is ours,' a sweaty man in a checked shirt shouted, stabbing his finger in the air. Nearby in the first-floor Crypt, the heart of the Capitol building, the police appeared to be overwhelmed. One wiped tear gas from his eyes. When a man approached to ask where the bathroom was, he said softly, 'We just need you guys to get out of here safely.'... Another officer stood by a stairway, watching everything unfold and answering a few questions, including directing a woman to the bathroom. One protester came up to him and shouted in his face, 'Traitor!' When another man approached to apologize to the officer, the officer replied, 'You’re fine.' 'Everybody’s been OK today, except that guy,' he said, motioning to the yeller. Most of the crowd in the Crypt just milled around. A young man in a red Trump hat smoked a cigarette. Several men shouted and screamed. A man in a backpack with two American flags jumped underneath a chandelier, yelling, 'Whose house,' as the crowd answered, 'Our house.'"
The chant "Whose house/Our house" is very familiar to me from the Wisconsin protests in 2011, when opponents of the newly elected governor, Scott Walker, lay siege to the Wisconsin Capitol building (which looks a lot like the U.S. Capitol building):
The text at that video says:
That's
In February, I was deeply moved by the fact that in spite of there being 13,000 Protesters at the Capitol, everyone was allowed to enter. I asked my girlfriend how this could be. She replied that the Capitol was "our House." When I returned from a road trip a couple weeks later I, and the rest of the public were all barred from entering Our House though lobbyists could enter without much problem. Walker had stolen the most profound Democratic feeling I've ever had. He had stolen Our House. The "Whose House? Our House!" chants outside Our House grew as did the crowds (to over 100,000). I felt moved to write this song....
The members of Congress had to be afraid they would be physically attacked.
From the linked article: "In the House, just after 2:30 p.m., a police officer stepped on the dais and informed lawmakers that they might need to duck under their chairs. “We now have individuals that have breached the Capitol building,” he said, warning them to be prepared to relocate to the cloakrooms. “They are in the Rotunda.”"
They were going to wait under their chairs, like the victims of the Virginia Tech massacre?
Agree with Wilbur. A double standard today already with politicians and media. Too bad all of the politicians and media couldn't be united in condemning the violence over the Summer like they did yesterday.
I don't believe any of the supposed first person reporting in this account.
The rally was for Supporters of President Trump. Those that incited the riots were leftist. Ex-FBI agent witnessed a bus load of antifa thugs being unloaded. Who knows how many more buses hauled in rioters.
Mark: that's because after our initial objection, we were told these are the rules now. We're a bit annoyed that once a nonleft side tries to benef6from the new rules, they change again to live ammo is now used on protestors. It's almost like there aren't rules, just the left's will to power.
The pro-Trump demonstrators have done Middle America (that antiquated term!) a tremendous service. They have given us an example of mob outrage that can be openly condemned without the risk of being loudly condemned oneself as a racist Nazi.
Could have had an open hearing , but nooooooooooo! instead you got https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2021/jan/6/xrvision-firm-claims-antifa-infiltrated-protesters/ Antifa scores again! Ostriches back to your sand!
Yeah, it’s coming. The right is going to adopt the tactics the left pioneered in 2020. If the DNC can fund and direct Antifa and BLM, you can bet the other side is eventually going to decide to develop its own street forces.
I’m not going to devote my life to any kind of political crusade. While I’ve been a Trump supporter, I’m not going to strive for revenge by behaving as savagely and stupidly as the TDS morons have behaved over the past 4 years.
The temptation to live for revenge is very strong, but I’ve got better things to do with my life.
My seatbelt remains fastened. This trip's not over yet.
Will the flight reach its destination before it runs out of fuel? Stay tuned.
Above my gobsmacked mouth, my mind thought of all the in-person impressions that you and Meade forwarded during the Madison occupation, Althouse. Whatever political force was driving that occupation at that time seems to be in charge today in Wisconsin, at least in Madison.
There's something at least as powerful (many here would say more powerful) driving this thing we have just seen happen. I certainly don't think of Scott Walker when I look at the thing we saw yesterday. Walker's folksy, earnest jiu-jitsu would be welcome about now.
There's also a dead person to account for. The forces that turned others into martyrs for the cause will also be at work. There will be a funeral, no doubt. This crisis creates all sorts of opportunities, and there are so many ways these opportunities can go wrong.
This may be the end of one thing and the start of something else. Time will tell. If I was a praying sort of person, I'd find this a good time to avail myself of that kind of comfort.
Marching peacefully into the house and senate is OK in my book. Destruction and violence is not acceptable. That being said, yesterday's events pale in comparison to blatantly stealing* a presidential election.
* Polls vary, but a substantial portion of the American public agree the election was stolen.
"The members of Congress had to be afraid they would be physically attacked."
I know three different women, two old, one leftist, and who don't know each other, who raised their interest in buying a gun with me, who has never owned a gun. Maybe members of Congress should experience the fear of being physically attacked, too.
They were going to wait under their chairs, like the victims of the Virginia Tech massacre?
Representatives and Senators hiding under their furniture like a Cuban Missle Crisis "duck and cover" drill seeming fitting and natural. The majority are past masters of the art of hiding, wouldn't you say? Hiding graft, hiding corruption, hiding nepotism, hiding the truth, hiding from the truth...
These were the rules based on years of left wing riots and protests. Don't play dumb. At least recognize the two were treated differently. We don't know yet, as far as I know, who left the bombs. But given left wing rioters threw explosives at police without much fuss being made, again I say that the left should have worked with the right months and years ago to lower the temperature of the riots instead of assuming they'd always be the ones rioting.
If they were afraid, it was because they believed the media. I didn’t see torches attempting to burn down buildings, lasers trying to blind officers, nor people walking out of the Capitol with TV’s. When the day ended, all that occurred was an assembly ignored blockades to their freedom of speech and a Capitol officer over reacted to an armed woman and shot her in the back of the neck.
Much worse happened at the Federal Courthouse in Portland last year, and the media howled that Trump would even ask Barr to investigate those protesters.
So how many people were actually violent? Was my rough guess of 100 greatly overstated? If even the New York Times admits the scene was basically calm and peaceful, then it really must have been calm and peaceful.
iowan2 said...Those that incited the riots were leftist. Ex-FBI agent witnessed a bus load of antifa thugs being unloaded. Who knows how many more buses hauled in rioters.
Over the summer, we watched BLM/Antifa and their media supporters try to blame right-wing provocateurs for the violence. This is the same thing and the most likely explanation is the people who were there for the protest got violent.
I'm trying to stick to the 48-hour rule and not come to any conclusions yet, but already I'm starting to wonder just how much violence there actually was. Because it's starting to sound like the answer is, "not much."
There's also a dead person to account for. The forces that turned others into martyrs for the cause will also be at work. There will be a funeral
Listening the local (Des Moines) news for 2 hours. The "reporting" is... one person dead. that's it. Her name is known, the video of her death is posted in comments here at this very blog. It feels to me like this death will be memory holed along with the Bernie bro, stalking and attempting to murder Republican Congressmen. With the theater this summer where the media spent 10 minutes every hour speaking about the evil of using tear gas, and pepper spray, the double standard of defending this shooting where no life was at risk. Let me be clear. I don't have any hard fast, one size fits all rules for self defense, but judges sure as hell do. And this does not qualify. Millions of people live in fear of their lives when the must go out after dark in cities like Kenosha, Detroit, or Washington DC. Those people are denied the power of self defense, and if they do defend themself, (Rittenhouse) they find themselve ground up in the gears of a legal system skewed against them. The peoples Representatives are no more important than mother in Kenosha that is forced to go into the night to earn a living
There is nothing good that came out of yesterday. Nothing. It left stink on everybody, all sides, every person, whether you participated or just muttered to yourself at home. Many of us could see this day coming from miles away. We have half the population of this country which has mostly been a civil, productive, tax paying side. They have been slandered, dismissed, insulted, and stepped on for years now. Their traditions, religions, history, and very being accused of evil, and dismissed, removed, or destroyed. Our voices have been mostly eliminated from the mass media, and narrowed down to a few blogs (thank you, Ann) or video posts, or an occasional radio show. We are nowhere to be found in the mass media, we are censored at all ends- from the newspapers, to Twitter, Facebook, and the holder of keys to the temple: Google. Our history, our being, our culture have been completely removed from all schools and universities. We are not only not hired to teach in these 'institutions', but are actively indoctrinated, or- if we refuse that- chased out of the university entirely. We watched as years of corruption from our government 'leaders' went unpunished. As our 'leaders' made obvious lies, and then watched again as the media covered for them. And we just muttered to ourselves and went back to work. We watched as the four years of Russia Collusion, Kavanaugh hearings, and a summer of riots called peaceful protests that destroyed large portions of a number of major US cities. We watched as the new President was shown by his son's own emails, to have taken part in multiple international payoffs, and the media covered it up. And finally, we watched hundreds of incidents of fraud in this past election that the media dismisses as 'baseless', but refuses to investigate.
There is a seething underneath that an entire half of the population of this country is feeling. And though I did not want to see what happened yesterday, I understand that it happened and why it happened. And the WORST thing our media and our 'leaders' can do now is to dismiss this as extremists for Trump- deplorables being deplorable- and bury it, moving on. This will not go away. This country is broken. All the pompousness from The Anderson Coopers of the world cannot fix anything. In fact, his mouth, and those of his partners in the media (and particularly at CNN) are the kerosene they accuse Trump of being. They are out of the same can, but they are on 24/7 doing their dirty work.
This is not done. And if the issues that brought this burning up to the front are not dealt with, there will be more. Our institutions are regarded as broken, untrustworthy, corrupt. Trump will move on, but these people in these institutions, stinking to high heaven, are still there.
China is smiling. The world is holding its breath. How do we fix this?
Althouse, when you suggest, “like the Virginia Tech massacre”, who of the protesters fired a weapon? See, people feared a gunman firing a weapon at Virginia Tech. Why didn’t you hide when protesters stormed the Capitol in Madison? They were equally as violent.
I'm starting to wonder just how much violence there actually was. Because it's starting to sound like the answer is, "not much."
Yes the curated set "facts" being reported this morning is starting to bring into focus that not much violence or destruction took place. The phrase "riots led by Trump supporters" is repeated often, despite no evidence to to support the assertion.
I only skimed the headlines and I didn't watch any of the coverage of this last night. Instead I had a long conversation with my adult son about snow blowers electric motors the covid pandemic bodyweight exercises sledding and cross-country skiing.
I have to say the protests and the incursion into the capital did not really bother me. I think it's remarkable that all those people were able to invade the Capitol building and only one person died I think that's quite a remarkable achievement on the part of the protesters and the police.
I did read that the other people who died had medical issues unrelated to violence. I have to say that it is somewhat encouraging to me to see Republicans finally getting politically active by protesting at a grassroots level.
This country absolutely needs a balance of influence between the left and the right.
I was pretty disappointed that Twitter canceled the Trump tweeting account. I don't care that he incited the protest and subsequent riot. It's perfectly within his rights to encourage his people to engage in political theater. The left does it all the time.
Blogger Matt Sablan said... I'm not defending it. I'm staring why it happened, and why the left needs to realize they enabled this as much as Trump.
Agreed. And the media. I abhor what happened yesterday. But I haven't been cheering on months of burning down police stations and looting private property across the country. I didn't cheer on the occupation of the WI Capitol. I didn't ignore Steve Scalise being shot, or say Rand Paul's neighbor was correct to beat him up. I didn't think "The Wall of Moms" was genius. And yesterday, a mom was shot and nobody cares. Certainly The Wall of Moms hasn't issued a statement mourning her.
So media and Dems. You think Trump is incapable of self evaluation. I think he is too. But I think you are, too.
Blogger Ann Althouse said... "The members of Congress had to be afraid they would be physically attacked.
From the linked article: "In the House, just after 2:30 p.m., a police officer stepped on the dais and informed lawmakers that they might need to duck under their chairs. “We now have individuals that have breached the Capitol building,” he said, warning them to be prepared to relocate to the cloakrooms. “They are in the Rotunda.”" A little different. I think it's a good thing that the members of congress face the people they steal from. Now what lesson do you think they've learned?
They were going to wait under their chairs, like the victims of the Virginia Tech massacre?"
RV Antifa would have set the place on fire, ripped the paintings from the walls, destroyed the statues, broken the light fixtures, stolen whatever they could carry. So you are right
I, too, am not shocked that Trump supporting protesters decided "hey, BLM and Antifa got away with worse than this, so surely we can too." It's the natural progression of watching for years as political violence is rewarded. Someone will eventually get the idea: "Hey, maybe WE should use political violence too."
"no comparison...these brownshirts were attempting a coup to install a president who legitimately lost an election."
-- If these folks wanted to commit a coup, they would have used violence against people, not property -- which I've been told for years is not actually violence. If they wanted to commit a coup, they'd have used the level of violence used by the rioters who tried to breach the White House. These people were not attempting a coup.
Senators ran out under sniper fire as enemy tanks rolled unhindered down the wide avenues. "It was a miracle we made it out" said one senator, wiping his brow, "we feared for our lives."
I think this had to have been the least violent mass protest since Dr. King's march on Washington. The deplorables should be applauded for their conduct. Unfortunately not many people see it that way.
"I remember that one time Antifa stormed the US Capital with pipe bombs and Molotov’s in an attempt to take over the government while holding up flags of the people who were traitors to America during the Civil War. Oh wait. Antifa never did that."
Antifa and other left-wing protesters did try to breach the White House. They have also used molotovs on federal buildings and personnel.
The simple fact is, nothing the protesters did yesterday is different from what Antifa and BLM protesters have done, except the protesters yesterday did not harm a single individual and were fired on with live ammo, as opposed to being given space to destroy like the other protesters.
It was the natural progression of letting other protesters act with immunity for years. I wish it hadn't happened, but I'm not going to pretend that this is shocking or unprecedented.
I've demonstrated in DC and they have specially trained police because they have demonstrations every day from sone group of citizens. Those police are in complete control of their feelings and are well trained. So I wonder why someone was shot without the police shouting out a warning that they were going to live bullets.
Riots are riots. They are never justified. The Tea Party protests were genteel. Many Trump supporters are not genteel. This was a riot. I don’t know how much property damage occurred. Will the unarmed female protester and Air Force veteran shot down by the Capitol Police get the George Floyd treatment? Don’t make me laugh.
What did people think would happen when riots across the country this summer and before were glamorized as legitimate actions by politicians, pundits, and news people? Take a stroll through Portland, Minneapolis, and Chicago. Does everything look OK to you?
"What did people think would happen when riots across the country this summer and before were glamorized as legitimate actions by politicians, pundits, and news people? "
-- Exactly. I'm not a fan of violence, let alone political violence. But you can't spend years saying, "Political Violence is acceptable in some cases," and then be shocked when people whose political violence you don't support suddenly think, "hey, maybe it's acceptable in my case too!"
A lot of stupid people over the last several years contributed to this.
And I did turn to CNN to listen to what they said. They were, of course, beyond breathless. And their constant clamoring that this was a 'coup' could not have been more wrong.
This was not a coup. This was a rebellion. And, per my comments earlier, the burning inside of people- the usual calm, go-to-work people who were out there yesterday- will not go away. A coup attempt is either done and vanquished or it is successful. A rebellion, on the other hand, starts with a spark. It grows from there.
There are serious problems at the core of our nation, mostly brought on by the Left, not by Donald Trump. These problems existed before Trump was elected and are the reasons he got elected in the first place. Ignoring them will only result in more and greater rebellion. It does not take a Princeton grad to see that.
Donald Trump is a symptom. We all know that. The elites have been focused on doing him in, ignoring the underlying problems. They are doing it again with this.
Let's not lose sight of the fact that the people who support political violence (as demonstrated by BLM this past summer) are now insisting it is not acceptable, mostly because shut up. Mark demonstrates this nicely, pretending that only those who are undisturbed about the protests yesterday are the raging hypocrites. Don't fall for the head fake; those who supported violence for BLM over the summer are the bigger hypocrites and deserve all the scorn possible to heap upon their America hating heads.
People keep saying this is a "coup". Coups attempt to expel a sitting executive. In this case, the protest could not be a coup since they support the sitting executive.
The only coups in evidence are the Comey/Clapper Russian Collusion hoax supported by the Dems and many commenters here at Althouse, and the further attempts by the "Squad" and anti-American Dems to depose the sitting executive by quasi-"legal" means.
This mostly peaceful protest would be a coup on January 22. Yesterday, not so much.
But that word gives fodder to the new cycle. So there it is.
And recall that conservative protesters waited 2 months and gave the system EVERY chance to work, and received nothing but contempt and unending gaslighting lies and absurd denials of the evidence for their patience, before even this weak tea and infiltrated show of resistance occurred.
The Left didn't even wait until nightfall to burn the cities down.
People keep saying this is a "coup". Coups attempt to expel a sitting executive. In this case, the protest could not be a coup since they support the sitting executive.
And at one point they were calling it a siege. I've come to the conclusion that expecting the media, who write/talk for a living, to know the proper usage of a word is waste of time.
Qwinn at 11:03a. 2 months went by and the system was given an opportunity to work. Claims were made and flatly ignored. In the end, they set up barriers to keep the public away from elected officials, and then called the public traitors for demanding to be heard. This after a summer of elected officials walking with rioters as they burn and looted small businesses in towns across the country.
Gohmert's stay application, filed by Powell and addressed to Justice Alito, was referred to the full Court and just denied by the Court. No dissent noted on the docket. Time to march in a new direction?
I've been desperately looking for facts and not finding any in the MSM. We had one person murdered by the police. But the other 3 dead were "medical emergencies" and not a policemen or Congressmen or their employees. what does "Medical emergency" mean? No one says.
I'm also have come up empty on Hospitalized Policeman, protesters, or Congressman/employees. No congressmen/staffers were physically attacked.
So it must have been a Peaceful riot, except for the murdered trump protestor. Property Damage? All i can find is a few broken windows and doors.
BTW, I've seen estimates of the Trump supporters in DC at 100,000 to 200,000. The number of Capital Hill protesters? Maybe 200. That means 499 out of 500 Trump supporters were totally peaceful and law abiding.
Maybe a Trump supporting Qanon type beat a cop with a lead pipe. But maybe not, too. There were some infiltrating goons, as is being documented now despite some initial inaccurate reporting. I have a hard time believing it was a Trump supporter just based on the video I saw yesterday of the Capital incursion, where the protestors and the cops are more or less alongside one another throughout. It will be interesting when we learn about what prompted the incursion and whatever violence occurred. The cops in the midst of the Trump supporters didn't look particularly worried about them in the videos I saw.
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81 comments:
The local TV news labeled them "VIOLENT TRUMP PROTESTORS".
I thought they were probably "mostly peaceful".
That said, they are moronic fools full of themselves and are counterproductive. If somebody wants to defend them, knock yourself out.
The members of Congress had to be afraid they would be physically attacked.
From the linked article: "In the House, just after 2:30 p.m., a police officer stepped on the dais and informed lawmakers that they might need to duck under their chairs. “We now have individuals that have breached the Capitol building,” he said, warning them to be prepared to relocate to the cloakrooms. “They are in the Rotunda.”"
They were going to wait under their chairs, like the victims of the Virginia Tech massacre?
Not a lot of consistent responses from people here, if we are comparing this to Madison 2011.
The same people up in arms about that are defending this.
Agree with Wilbur. A double standard today already with politicians and media. Too bad all of the politicians and media couldn't be united in condemning the violence over the Summer like they did yesterday.
"The same people up in arms about that are defending this."
The rules aren't what are printed in the rule book. The rules are what the refs are calling.
There has been a huge double standard for years in how protests by the left and right are portrayed/treated, and we are seeing a response to that.
The bottom line is that they shot a Trump protestor dead and the media supports it.
I don't believe any of the supposed first person reporting in this account.
The rally was for Supporters of President Trump. Those that incited the riots were leftist. Ex-FBI agent witnessed a bus load of antifa thugs being unloaded. Who knows how many more buses hauled in rioters.
Mark: that's because after our initial objection, we were told these are the rules now. We're a bit annoyed that once a nonleft side tries to benef6from the new rules, they change again to live ammo is now used on protestors. It's almost like there aren't rules, just the left's will to power.
The pro-Trump demonstrators have done Middle America (that antiquated term!) a tremendous service. They have given us an example of mob outrage that can be openly condemned without the risk of being loudly condemned oneself as a racist Nazi.
I just posted link to new video of the Capitol Hill shooting in the cafe-
Shows the shooter step towards the woman and shoots her at point blank range.
Could have had an open hearing , but nooooooooooo! instead you got https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2021/jan/6/xrvision-firm-claims-antifa-infiltrated-protesters/
Antifa scores again! Ostriches back to your sand!
Yeah, it’s coming. The right is going to adopt the tactics the left pioneered in 2020. If the DNC can fund and direct Antifa and BLM, you can bet the other side is eventually going to decide to develop its own street forces.
I’m not going to devote my life to any kind of political crusade. While I’ve been a Trump supporter, I’m not going to strive for revenge by behaving as savagely and stupidly as the TDS morons have behaved over the past 4 years.
The temptation to live for revenge is very strong, but I’ve got better things to do with my life.
My seatbelt remains fastened. This trip's not over yet.
Will the flight reach its destination before it runs out of fuel? Stay tuned.
Above my gobsmacked mouth, my mind thought of all the in-person impressions that you and Meade forwarded during the Madison occupation, Althouse. Whatever political force was driving that occupation at that time seems to be in charge today in Wisconsin, at least in Madison.
There's something at least as powerful (many here would say more powerful) driving this thing we have just seen happen. I certainly don't think of Scott Walker when I look at the thing we saw yesterday. Walker's folksy, earnest jiu-jitsu would be welcome about now.
There's also a dead person to account for. The forces that turned others into martyrs for the cause will also be at work. There will be a funeral, no doubt. This crisis creates all sorts of opportunities, and there are so many ways these opportunities can go wrong.
This may be the end of one thing and the start of something else. Time will tell. If I was a praying sort of person, I'd find this a good time to avail myself of that kind of comfort.
Marching peacefully into the house and senate is OK in my book. Destruction and violence is not acceptable. That being said, yesterday's events pale in comparison to blatantly stealing* a presidential election.
* Polls vary, but a substantial portion of the American public agree the election was stolen.
Great job Browndog! Homicide. Why did she do 4 tours? For whom? Schumer? Pelosi? Vets take their comrades seriously!
Matt, who said these are the rules now? Did the Althouse commentators all agree to them and defend them? Not in my recollection.
This is just as bullshit as Trumps claims to have won in a landslide.
Meanwhile your buddies leave pipe bombs when they come to town.
You did not accept the tactics this summer, your claims are laughable now.
"The members of Congress had to be afraid they would be physically attacked."
I know three different women, two old, one leftist, and who don't know each other, who raised their interest in buying a gun with me, who has never owned a gun. Maybe members of Congress should experience the fear of being physically attacked, too.
They were going to wait under their chairs, like the victims of the Virginia Tech massacre?
Representatives and Senators hiding under their furniture like a Cuban Missle Crisis "duck and cover" drill seeming fitting and natural. The majority are past masters of the art of hiding, wouldn't you say? Hiding graft, hiding corruption, hiding nepotism, hiding the truth, hiding from the truth...
Now, if the crowd was throwing snowballs in Boston, I could see it.
But this? https://twitter.com/dancohen3000/status/1347076676342185984
These were the rules based on years of left wing riots and protests. Don't play dumb. At least recognize the two were treated differently. We don't know yet, as far as I know, who left the bombs. But given left wing rioters threw explosives at police without much fuss being made, again I say that the left should have worked with the right months and years ago to lower the temperature of the riots instead of assuming they'd always be the ones rioting.
If they were afraid, it was because they believed the media. I didn’t see torches attempting to burn down buildings, lasers trying to blind officers, nor people walking out of the Capitol with TV’s. When the day ended, all that occurred was an assembly ignored blockades to their freedom of speech and a Capitol officer over reacted to an armed woman and shot her in the back of the neck.
Much worse happened at the Federal Courthouse in Portland last year, and the media howled that Trump would even ask Barr to investigate those protesters.
GFY Wilbur. Eat shit Chuck. War motherfuckers. .
Enjoy defending this, Matt.
When you stoop lower than people tearing down a statue, I am not sure how you will ever claim moral high ground.
I'm not defending it. I'm staring why it happened, and why the left needs to realize they enabled this as much as Trump.
Antifa and BLM protesters killed people. The Trump ones? Who did they murder?
So how many people were actually violent? Was my rough guess of 100 greatly overstated? If even the New York Times admits the scene was basically calm and peaceful, then it really must have been calm and peaceful.
Are we down to 10 violent people? 5? Any?
There were violent people there. Let's not downplay that.
Excellent thread on this subject:
https://twitter.com/Doc_0/status/1347157599695859712
iowan2 said...Those that incited the riots were leftist. Ex-FBI agent witnessed a bus load of antifa thugs being unloaded. Who knows how many more buses hauled in rioters.
Over the summer, we watched BLM/Antifa and their media supporters try to blame right-wing provocateurs for the violence. This is the same thing and the most likely explanation is the people who were there for the protest got violent.
I'm trying to stick to the 48-hour rule and not come to any conclusions yet, but already I'm starting to wonder just how much violence there actually was. Because it's starting to sound like the answer is, "not much."
Video: MAGA crowd tries to stop window breakers; call them Antifa
There's also a dead person to account for. The forces that turned others into martyrs for the cause will also be at work. There will be a funeral
Listening the local (Des Moines) news for 2 hours. The "reporting" is... one person dead.
that's it. Her name is known, the video of her death is posted in comments here at this very blog. It feels to me like this death will be memory holed along with the Bernie bro, stalking and attempting to murder Republican Congressmen.
With the theater this summer where the media spent 10 minutes every hour speaking about the evil of using tear gas, and pepper spray, the double standard of defending this shooting where no life was at risk.
Let me be clear. I don't have any hard fast, one size fits all rules for self defense, but judges sure as hell do. And this does not qualify.
Millions of people live in fear of their lives when the must go out after dark in cities like Kenosha, Detroit, or Washington DC. Those people are denied the power of self defense, and if they do defend themself, (Rittenhouse) they find themselve ground up in the gears of a legal system skewed against them. The peoples Representatives are no more important than mother in Kenosha that is forced to go into the night to earn a living
There is nothing good that came out of yesterday. Nothing. It left stink on everybody, all sides, every person, whether you participated or just muttered to yourself at home. Many of us could see this day coming from miles away. We have half the population of this country which has mostly been a civil, productive, tax paying side. They have been slandered, dismissed, insulted, and stepped on for years now. Their traditions, religions, history, and very being accused of evil, and dismissed, removed, or destroyed. Our voices have been mostly eliminated from the mass media, and narrowed down to a few blogs (thank you, Ann) or video posts, or an occasional radio show. We are nowhere to be found in the mass media, we are censored at all ends- from the newspapers, to Twitter, Facebook, and the holder of keys to the temple: Google. Our history, our being, our culture have been completely removed from all schools and universities. We are not only not hired to teach in these 'institutions', but are actively indoctrinated, or- if we refuse that- chased out of the university entirely.
We watched as years of corruption from our government 'leaders' went unpunished. As our 'leaders' made obvious lies, and then watched again as the media covered for them. And we just muttered to ourselves and went back to work. We watched as the four years of Russia Collusion, Kavanaugh hearings, and a summer of riots called peaceful protests that destroyed large portions of a number of major US cities. We watched as the new President was shown by his son's own emails, to have taken part in multiple international payoffs, and the media covered it up. And finally, we watched hundreds of incidents of fraud in this past election that the media dismisses as 'baseless', but refuses to investigate.
There is a seething underneath that an entire half of the population of this country is feeling. And though I did not want to see what happened yesterday, I understand that it happened and why it happened. And the WORST thing our media and our 'leaders' can do now is to dismiss this as extremists for Trump- deplorables being deplorable- and bury it, moving on. This will not go away. This country is broken. All the pompousness from The Anderson Coopers of the world cannot fix anything. In fact, his mouth, and those of his partners in the media (and particularly at CNN) are the kerosene they accuse Trump of being. They are out of the same can, but they are on 24/7 doing their dirty work.
This is not done. And if the issues that brought this burning up to the front are not dealt with, there will be more. Our institutions are regarded as broken, untrustworthy, corrupt. Trump will move on, but these people in these institutions, stinking to high heaven, are still there.
China is smiling. The world is holding its breath. How do we fix this?
Althouse, when you suggest, “like the Virginia Tech massacre”, who of the protesters fired a weapon? See, people feared a gunman firing a weapon at Virginia Tech. Why didn’t you hide when protesters stormed the Capitol in Madison? They were equally as violent.
I'm starting to wonder just how much violence there actually was. Because it's starting to sound like the answer is, "not much."
Yes the curated set "facts" being reported this morning is starting to bring into focus that not much violence or destruction took place. The phrase "riots led by Trump supporters" is repeated often, despite no evidence to to support the assertion.
I only skimed the headlines and I didn't watch any of the coverage of this last night. Instead I had a long conversation with my adult son about snow blowers electric motors the covid pandemic bodyweight exercises sledding and cross-country skiing.
I have to say the protests and the incursion into the capital did not really bother me. I think it's remarkable that all those people were able to invade the Capitol building and only one person died I think that's quite a remarkable achievement on the part of the protesters and the police.
You have to scroll down on Yahooo! home page to find any mention of someone being shot and killed inside the nation's capitol.
Main headline: 5 years later, republicans finally wake up to Trump
I did read that the other people who died had medical issues unrelated to violence. I have to say that it is somewhat encouraging to me to see Republicans finally getting politically active by protesting at a grassroots level.
This country absolutely needs a balance of influence between the left and the right.
I was pretty disappointed that Twitter canceled the Trump tweeting account. I don't care that he incited the protest and subsequent riot. It's perfectly within his rights to encourage his people to engage in political theater. The left does it all the time.
The first thing that came to mind yesterday was the Madison mob. Note the completely different tone in how the media and the left view it.
Blogger Matt Sablan said...
I'm not defending it. I'm staring why it happened, and why the left needs to realize they enabled this as much as Trump.
Agreed.
And the media.
I abhor what happened yesterday. But I haven't been cheering on months of burning down police stations and looting private property across the country. I didn't cheer on the occupation of the WI Capitol. I didn't ignore Steve Scalise being shot, or say Rand Paul's neighbor was correct to beat him up.
I didn't think "The Wall of Moms" was genius. And yesterday, a mom was shot and nobody cares. Certainly The Wall of Moms hasn't issued a statement mourning her.
So media and Dems. You think Trump is incapable of self evaluation. I think he is too. But I think you are, too.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ErIReCyWMAAjg_b?format=jpg&name=900x900
What richlib said.
What Temujin said...at 7am....
Oh well.
Blogger Ann Althouse said...
"The members of Congress had to be afraid they would be physically attacked.
From the linked article: "In the House, just after 2:30 p.m., a police officer stepped on the dais and informed lawmakers that they might need to duck under their chairs. “We now have individuals that have breached the Capitol building,” he said, warning them to be prepared to relocate to the cloakrooms. “They are in the Rotunda.”"
A little different.
I think it's a good thing that the members of congress face the people they steal from.
Now what lesson do you think they've learned?
They were going to wait under their chairs, like the victims of the Virginia Tech massacre?"
The armed proud boys who took selfies in the capital do not look like Antifa to me.
i abhor the fact that a young woman lost her life and the fact that the lawmakers will learn nothing from this. Otherwise no.
"...a tableau of violence and mayhem that shocked the nation..."
Count me not shocked.
RV
Antifa would have set the place on fire, ripped the paintings from the walls, destroyed the statues, broken the light fixtures, stolen whatever they could carry. So you are right
I, too, am not shocked that Trump supporting protesters decided "hey, BLM and Antifa got away with worse than this, so surely we can too." It's the natural progression of watching for years as political violence is rewarded. Someone will eventually get the idea: "Hey, maybe WE should use political violence too."
no comparison...these brownshirts were attempting a coup to install a president who legitimately lost an election.
"no comparison...these brownshirts were attempting a coup to install a president who legitimately lost an election."
-- If these folks wanted to commit a coup, they would have used violence against people, not property -- which I've been told for years is not actually violence. If they wanted to commit a coup, they'd have used the level of violence used by the rioters who tried to breach the White House. These people were not attempting a coup.
Senators ran out under sniper fire as enemy tanks rolled unhindered down the wide avenues. "It was a miracle we made it out" said one senator, wiping his brow, "we feared for our lives."
I think this had to have been the least violent mass protest since Dr. King's march on Washington. The deplorables should be applauded for their conduct. Unfortunately not many people see it that way.
"I remember that one time Antifa stormed the US Capital with pipe bombs and Molotov’s in an attempt to take over the government while holding up flags of the people who were traitors to America during the Civil War. Oh wait. Antifa never did that."
Antifa and other left-wing protesters did try to breach the White House. They have also used molotovs on federal buildings and personnel.
The simple fact is, nothing the protesters did yesterday is different from what Antifa and BLM protesters have done, except the protesters yesterday did not harm a single individual and were fired on with live ammo, as opposed to being given space to destroy like the other protesters.
It was the natural progression of letting other protesters act with immunity for years. I wish it hadn't happened, but I'm not going to pretend that this is shocking or unprecedented.
I've demonstrated in DC and they have specially trained police because they have demonstrations every day from sone group of citizens. Those police are in complete control of their feelings and are well trained. So I wonder why someone was shot without the police shouting out a warning that they were going to live bullets.
Condemn the violence, condone the protest.
Is anyone surprised after years of political violence on the left? An entire summer of protests/riots where no one was punished?
Because the Capitol Police are not trained very well, and the guy probably thought that shooting THESE protesters was allowed.
Riots are riots. They are never justified. The Tea Party protests were genteel. Many Trump supporters are not genteel. This was a riot. I don’t know how much property damage occurred. Will the unarmed female protester and Air Force veteran shot down by the Capitol Police get the George Floyd treatment? Don’t make me laugh.
What did people think would happen when riots across the country this summer and before were glamorized as legitimate actions by politicians, pundits, and news people? Take a stroll through Portland, Minneapolis, and Chicago. Does everything look OK to you?
"What did people think would happen when riots across the country this summer and before were glamorized as legitimate actions by politicians, pundits, and news people? "
-- Exactly. I'm not a fan of violence, let alone political violence. But you can't spend years saying, "Political Violence is acceptable in some cases," and then be shocked when people whose political violence you don't support suddenly think, "hey, maybe it's acceptable in my case too!"
A lot of stupid people over the last several years contributed to this.
And I did turn to CNN to listen to what they said. They were, of course, beyond breathless. And their constant clamoring that this was a 'coup' could not have been more wrong.
This was not a coup. This was a rebellion. And, per my comments earlier, the burning inside of people- the usual calm, go-to-work people who were out there yesterday- will not go away. A coup attempt is either done and vanquished or it is successful. A rebellion, on the other hand, starts with a spark. It grows from there.
There are serious problems at the core of our nation, mostly brought on by the Left, not by Donald Trump. These problems existed before Trump was elected and are the reasons he got elected in the first place. Ignoring them will only result in more and greater rebellion. It does not take a Princeton grad to see that.
Donald Trump is a symptom. We all know that. The elites have been focused on doing him in, ignoring the underlying problems. They are doing it again with this.
How gullible are we? This is not about Trump.
rebelling against what? losing an election, mostly operated by republicans?
Let's not lose sight of the fact that the people who support political violence (as demonstrated by BLM this past summer) are now insisting it is not acceptable, mostly because shut up. Mark demonstrates this nicely, pretending that only those who are undisturbed about the protests yesterday are the raging hypocrites. Don't fall for the head fake; those who supported violence for BLM over the summer are the bigger hypocrites and deserve all the scorn possible to heap upon their America hating heads.
People keep saying this is a "coup". Coups attempt to expel a sitting executive. In this case, the protest could not be a coup since they support the sitting executive.
The only coups in evidence are the Comey/Clapper Russian Collusion hoax supported by the Dems and many commenters here at Althouse, and the further attempts by the "Squad" and anti-American Dems to depose the sitting executive by quasi-"legal" means.
This mostly peaceful protest would be a coup on January 22. Yesterday, not so much.
But that word gives fodder to the new cycle. So there it is.
And recall that conservative protesters waited 2 months and gave the system EVERY chance to work, and received nothing but contempt and unending gaslighting lies and absurd denials of the evidence for their patience, before even this weak tea and infiltrated show of resistance occurred.
The Left didn't even wait until nightfall to burn the cities down.
TheOne Who Is Not Obeyed said...
People keep saying this is a "coup". Coups attempt to expel a sitting executive. In this case, the protest could not be a coup since they support the sitting executive.
And at one point they were calling it a siege. I've come to the conclusion that expecting the media, who write/talk for a living, to know the proper usage of a word is waste of time.
Nice of Congress to move its proceedings confirming election of Biden/Harris to 3 am so the people could enjoy their House while still daylight.
North: Agree, the media are horribly ignorant about terminology. And I'm sure none of them served in the military.
You did not accept the tactics this summer, your claims are laughable now.
You did accept the tactics this summer. Your objections are bullshit now.
Qwinn at 11:03a. 2 months went by and the system was given an opportunity to work. Claims were made and flatly ignored. In the end, they set up barriers to keep the public away from elected officials, and then called the public traitors for demanding to be heard. This after a summer of elected officials walking with rioters as they burn and looted small businesses in towns across the country.
Gohmert's stay application, filed by Powell and addressed to Justice Alito, was referred to the full Court and just denied by the Court. No dissent noted on the docket. Time to march in a new direction?
I've been desperately looking for facts and not finding any in the MSM. We had one person murdered by the police. But the other 3 dead were "medical emergencies" and not a policemen or Congressmen or their employees. what does "Medical emergency" mean? No one says.
I'm also have come up empty on Hospitalized Policeman, protesters, or Congressman/employees.
No congressmen/staffers were physically attacked.
So it must have been a Peaceful riot, except for the murdered trump protestor. Property Damage? All i can find is a few broken windows and doors.
BTW, I've seen estimates of the Trump supporters in DC at 100,000 to 200,000. The number of Capital Hill protesters? Maybe 200. That means 499 out of 500 Trump supporters were totally peaceful and law abiding.
Riots are riots.
Yeah, but that wasn't a riot. That was a protest, and a peaceful one at that. Like, actually peaceful, besides the cop shooting that poor woman.
Or the cop being mortally wounded.
Maybe a Trump supporting Qanon type beat a cop with a lead pipe. But maybe not, too. There were some infiltrating goons, as is being documented now despite some initial inaccurate reporting. I have a hard time believing it was a Trump supporter just based on the video I saw yesterday of the Capital incursion, where the protestors and the cops are more or less alongside one another throughout. It will be interesting when we learn about what prompted the incursion and whatever violence occurred. The cops in the midst of the Trump supporters didn't look particularly worried about them in the videos I saw.
There is going to be a huge post mortem of the whole thing.
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