December 4, 2020

The elegance of Edward Snowden.

55 comments:

tim maguire said...

They should both get a pardon. Even if calculated, it's nice that he's used his one phone call to help somebody else.

Ann Althouse said...

What's so elegant is that he makes himself look saintly and more deserving of a pardon. Trump is not limited to giving one pardon, so it's a better way to argue for a pardon for himself than if he were to directly ask, which he can't even do. This trope of only one pardon is wonderful rhetoric.

Mark said...

Trump had it right in 2013. “I think Snowden is a terrible threat, I think he’s a terrible traitor, and you know what we used to do in the good old days when we were a strong country — you know what we used to do to traitors, right?” Trump said on “Fox and Friends.” “We can’t allow this guy to go out there and give out all our secrets and also embarrass us at every level. We should get him back and get him back now.”

Not that precedent or prior statements mean anything to Trump

rehajm said...

Has it been a thing for Presidents to grant pardons between terms?

Mike Sylwester said...

Edward Snowden revealed that the CIA had collected and studied a lot of computer viruses that had been created by foreign hackers. The CIA was able to use its so-called "arsenal" of such computer viruses for its own false-flag hacking of foreign computers.

Unfortunately, the CIA lost control of its collection. A good article on this subject is Patrick Lawrence's article The Revelations of WIKILEAKS: No. 9—Opening the CIA’s Vault. That article's relevant passage is:

[quote]

As WikiLeaks notes, the agency [the CIA] had “lost control of the majority of its hacking arsenal” .... There had been a massive leak, to put this point in simple terms. “The archive appears to have been circulated among former U.S. government hackers and contractors in an unauthorized manner,” WikiLeaks reported, “one of whom has provided WikiLeaks with portions of the archive.” This occurred at some point in 2016.

[end quote]

I used that passage in a blog article that I have published about the hacking of the Democrat National Committee's computers in the spring of 2016. I speculate that a supporter of Bernie Sanders planted such a virus into the DNC computers in order to spy on the Clinton campaign staff.

rhhardin said...

Self-serving I'm-a-nice-guy campaign. No in-secret there.

Mike Sylwester said...

.Here is a better link to Patrick Lawrence's article.

Bob Boyd said...

Trump had it right in 2013.

Trump probably has a different view of our intelligence services today...as do many.

narciso said...

Assange is in belmarsh a place that make gotno look like club med, id withdraw the indictment or add a whole host of journalists to the charge sheet.

Paul Snively said...

Bob Boyd: Trump probably has a different view of our intelligence services today...as do many.

It was ludicrously naïve in 2013, too.

PB said...

Better grant one to Michael Flynn's son, too. I've a feeling the Dems aren't done jerking his chain.

Temujin said...

I was foaming at the mouth angry at Assange and Snowden during the first few years of their leaks. It harmed many people, was devastating to national security, etc. As time has gone on, and I've been slapped in the face repeatedly with the fact that our national security apparatus is actively working against the freedom of the American people, I find myself agreeing more and more with Glenn Greenwald on this: freedom is everything. And it does not matter which 'team' you're on. National pride is one thing, but you have no nation when we have ceded our rights, privacy, and the actual facts to a faceless bureaucracy entrenched for life, unelected, and untouchable.

Assange and Snowden pointed out what is happening. How their actions go against our Constitution and our very being. We've listened to the media tell us what to believe on this and lets face it, they have been manipulated or purposefully manipulating the truth for years now. (look no further than today's headlines).

Trump should pardon both Assange and Snowden as a final broadside against those running a non-stop coup in this country. If they've lost me, they've lost a lot of Americans.

Mark said...

Maybe Assange is the person they opened the bribe-for-pardon investigation on?

tim maguire said...

Mark said...Maybe Assange is the person they opened the bribe-for-pardon investigation on?

The SOL has run out on the Marc Rich pardon--which is the obvious pardon needing investigation--so who knows who it might be?

RK said...

They should both be pardoned.

Browndog said...

Talking about pardoning Assange without talking about Obama pardoning Bradley Manning is akin to talking about Citizens United without talking about Hillary and a movie.

info@ysb said...

@Temujin - Well said. My thoughts exactly.

Flat Tire said...

@Temujin - I agree

Joe Smith said...

Funny how Daniel Ellsberg was a hero to the left.

Assange, not so much.

Achilles said...

Temujin said...


Trump should pardon both Assange and Snowden as a final broadside against those running a non-stop coup in this country. If they've lost me, they've lost a lot of Americans.

I agree with what you said.

I was once a part of the apparatus they attacked but I was out for a few years when they started dropping bombs.

I knew what Snowden said was true because I did it. And so much more.

Trump should pardon Snowden and Assange.

It is time to clean this all up.

Achilles said...

Ann Althouse said...

What's so elegant is that he makes himself look saintly and more deserving of a pardon. Trump is not limited to giving one pardon, so it's a better way to argue for a pardon for himself than if he were to directly ask, which he can't even do. This trope of only one pardon is wonderful rhetoric.

I think the implied request is transparent.

The gesture is noticed and not unappreciated. Personally I would appreciate it if he understood that I saw the transparency and mentioned it in private conversation.

Howard said...

The left loved Julian until he turned on Hillary. Watched Stones Snowden a couple weeks ago. The most compelling evidence that he really is who he says he is and he is a boy scout is the fact that his hot girlfriend stuck with him through thick and thin.

Roughcoat said...

I don't know what I feel about Snowden or how I should feel. Ultimately, I don't care about him.

Roughcoat said...

But I am in favor of a pardon -- for both men. For reasons stated above, notably by Temujin.

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...

Do it.

F Hillary up her old corrupt lying a$$.

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...

Julian and Snowden -

Pardon.

A bonus in doing so - you F* CNN, MSDNC, Hillary, Schitt, Comey, Brennan et all - up their collective lying leftwing corrupt aholes.

Yancey Ward said...

Both men should be pardoned, and I would be disappointed in Trump if it isn't one of his last acts of his first term in office. I have written in these comment sections before that what Assange and Snowden do is truly necessary in a healthy Republic- what they revealed is the unseemly side of our government/s. That there are people who want to see them rot in prison is a sign of this country's moral decline.

What is interesting is how Assange has become persona non grata on the left after he displayed true journalistic ethics in not pulling his punches on Clinton, and if Snowden had done his leak when George W. Bush was president, the left would have been pleading for Obama in late 2016 to pardon Snowden on the way out of office, and would probably be pleading for it if Shelob were the president today. Hypocrisy is never a good look.

Browndog said...

Assange should be pardoned because he broke no laws.

Snowden should be pardoned because he broke a law by exposing law breaking.

Readering said...

I believe the bribe for pardon business was for someone who has died in prison.

Readering said...

Well, if AA commenters agree with Noam Chomsky and Daniel Ellsberg on Assange, must be something to it.

Kevin said...

I believe the bribe for pardon business was for someone who has died in prison.

No, Marc Rich died of a stroke.

Readering said...

Hugh Baras.

narciso said...

but his firm, glencore went on to run much of the looting of nigeria (kurzin chadoury) they were also part of the rosneft public offering that went pearshaped,

Narr said...

Pardon them both.

Like others here I was at first willing to believe the line spun by the Organs that A and S were endangering the country, but gradually it became clear that they deserve the thanks of the American and international publics for exposing dangerous, incompetent, and criminal behavior by the USG all over the world.

Narr
If they aren't pardoned there's no chance I'll vote for Trump again, ever

chuck said...

Pardon them both

+1.

Earnest Prole said...

Q: Does the NSA collect any type of data at all on millions, or hundreds of millions, of Americans?

James Clapper under oath before Congress: “No, sir… Not wittingly. There are cases where they could inadvertently, perhaps, collect. But not wittingly.”

He’d been provided the question in advance of his testimony.

D.D. Driver said...

They should both get a pardon. Even if calculated, it's nice that he's used his one phone call to help somebody else.

I would love to see him do this and then declassify everything that happened during the Obama Administration. Everything.

Achilles said...

D.D. Driver said...

They should both get a pardon. Even if calculated, it's nice that he's used his one phone call to help somebody else.

I would love to see him do this and then declassify everything that happened during the Obama Administration. Everything.

And BushClintonBush.

Howard said...

Kumbaya post.

Narr said...

Just had a short convo with a friend, a Trump-hater from the start, whose main complaint is that the first and only thing Trump did and has done in office is give tax breaks to billionaires. This is his position now, but as recently as a year ago he was certain that Putin had hacked the election for Trump and THAT was the main complaint.

He's of the "Thank you sir, may I have another?" school of D-voter, so I don't argue.

Narr
He barely remembers Assange and Snowden

Chuck said...

They are both (Snowden and Assange) on the list. Right after Don Jr., Eric, Javanka, Lana, Kimberly Guilfoyle, Rudy, Elliot Broidy, and the 45th President.

Here's one for the books; Trump pardons Pence, then resigns, then Pence, the 46th President of the United States, for about 24 hours, pardons Ex-PDJT. Biden is the 47th President.

Yancey Ward said...

I suppose Trump could pardon Chuck for Douchebaggery, but it wouldn't be very effective.

Robert Cook said...

"Trump had it right in 2013. 'I think Snowden is a terrible threat, I think he’s a terrible traitor, and you know what we used to do in the good old days when we were a strong country — you know what we used to do to traitors, right?' Trump said on 'Fox and Friends.' 'We can’t allow this guy to go out there and give out all our secrets and also embarrass us at every level. We should get him back and get him back now.'”

So...Snowden is a traitor for revealing our government is illegally surveilling the electronic communications of all Americans, (illegal surveillance that the smarmy James Clapper claimed to Congress was not occurring, at least, "not wittingly," thereby committing perjury). Then what does this make our government, or you, for defending their right to secretly violate the law and the Constitution?

Snowden is one of history's heroes, as is Assange.

Robert Cook said...

"I was foaming at the mouth angry at Assange and Snowden during the first few years of their leaks. It harmed many people, was devastating to national security, etc."

Actually, there's no evidence that the release by either Assange or Snowden resulted in harm to anyone. As for "national security" that is primarily a shield for the government to hide its crimes, misdeeds, and catastrophic failures.

Robert Cook said...

"Maybe Assange is the person they opened the bribe-for-pardon investigation on?"

Hardly. It's no doubt some American plutocrat or technocrat who is in deep trouble and has far deeper pockets than Assange.

Robert Cook said...

"Talking about pardoning Assange without talking about Obama pardoning Bradley Manning is akin to talking about Citizens United without talking about Hillary and a movie."

Obama did not pardon Manning; he only commuted Manning's sentence.

Robert Cook said...

"Funny how Daniel Ellsberg was a hero to the left.

"Assange, not so much."


Not so. Those condemning Assange are not "left." Unless you mistake Democrats for the left, which they are not (a very few excepted).

Robert Cook said...

"Assange should be pardoned because he broke no laws."

Not to mention, he is not an American citizen and is not subject to our laws in any case.

Achilles said...

Robert Cook said...

"Funny how Daniel Ellsberg was a hero to the left.

"Assange, not so much."

Not so. Those condemning Assange are not "left." Unless you mistake Democrats for the left, which they are not (a very few excepted).

Just curious.

Which democrats are these exceptions?

Achilles said...

Robert Cook said...

"Assange should be pardoned because he broke no laws."

Not to mention, he is not an American citizen and is not subject to our laws in any case.

Wasn't it Sweden that was trying to hunt him down?

Browndog said...

Wasn't it Sweden that was trying to hunt him down?

Yes, for a fake manufactured statutory rape case they dropped because it was a ploy to get him back to Sweden so the U.S. could come and swoop him up.

D.D. Driver said...

"Wasn't it Sweden that was trying to hunt him down."

Yes. He had consensual sex with a women and the condom broke and they tried to charge him with "rape."

Unknown said...

They should both get pardons. They are more courageous than any member of the Republican Party. Except maybe Nunes.

Robert Cook said...

"Which democrats are these exceptions?"

Arguably, AOC and the other members of "the Squad," and, self-purportedly, Bernie Sanders, though he always folds and supports standard Dem policies. If you can persuade me even these few exceptions are not actually "left," I am certainly open to being persuaded. Let's say at least these are the only ones who bother to try to appear to be "left."

daskol said...

Trump should pardon them, then he should hire them to host a show on his new TV network. Who'd be the chick?