Althouse: At the Sunrise Café...

December 6, 2020

At the Sunrise Café...

... you can talk about whatever you like.

159 comments:

YoungHegelian said...: Apropo of a Jewish friend's discussion of this article in The Forward on the Evangelical/Jewish strange bedfellows alliance in support of Israel in another forum, I wrote this tl;dr stem winder on the theological roots of that Evangelical support.

What ticked me off the most about the article was that it gave no attention to the fact that the Christians in this political/theological alliance have foundational theological reasons for their Zionism. Now, this is The Forward, which has trouble with Jewish theology, much less comprehension of the ins-and-outs of eschatological views held by a minority within the Christian Churches, but still. The article makes it seems like a bunch of Hicks-from-the-Sticks are goin' All Bagels & Schmaltz because they've taken leave of their senses. No, just No.

The answer lies these denominations' belief in a doctrine called Dispensationalism, a doctrine generally found paired with another doctrine called Pre-Millenialism to make Pre-Millenial Dispensationalism.

Dispensationalism holds that there are epochs in the history of Man's salvation, and that these epochs are defined by different covenants between God & Mankind. One such Dispensation is the covenant between God & the Jewish people depicted in the Old Testament. With the completion of the life of Jesus (i.e. His resurrection & the Pentecost) a new covenant/dispensation is created --- the Christian Church on Earth. Now, and here comes the beeeeeg difference, the Dispensationalists believe that the previous covenant/dispensation between God & the Jewish people runs concurrently with the Christian dispensation. In other words, the Jewish people are still players in the salvific history of the Christian Church. Most mainline Christian Churches reject this view & believe (now more or less apologetically...) in a doctrine called Supercessionism where the baton-carrying role in salvific history has passed from the Jewish people to the Christian Church on Earth.

What this means in practice is that for the Supercessionists, the founding of Israel in 1948 was a political act like any other in history, with no more impact on the course of man's salvation than e.g. the founding of Brazil. For the Dispensationalists, however, the return of Israel after a gap of 2000 years is a watershed event in the history of salvation, and brings with it obligations, attested in multiple scriptural passages, to support the state of Israel as part of their duties as Christians.

Now, I as a Roman Catholic don't believe this. I, like most of the RCC, believe in a "soft" form of Supercessionalism. But, these Evangelicals see things differently, and within their theological framework, it makes perfect sense. Every religion's eschatology looks bonkers to those on the outside, and every faith has its eschatology, as do many secular movements who just aren't as honest about it in public.; 12/6/20, 6:55 PM
YoungHegelian said...: @Chuck,

It is the single most robotic performance I think I’ve ever seen from a national politician

I've noticed this with many Republican candidates in Virginia. The first question you ask is -- How did the GOP find candidates this bad?

It's like a bunch of white teenagers on the dance floor on Soul Train, except it's national politics.; 12/6/20, 6:58 PM
Wince said...: Nobody has a southern accent in Georgia anymore?; 12/6/20, 7:05 PM
Gospace said...: I’ve never used those words younghegalian used, but I always got the impression in Methodist churches growing up that Jews who adhered to the Covenant were fine. Those that don’t adhere to it and don’t convert, well, not good for them.

But the “Good News” preached by the disciples was “There is life after death.” IIRC, Jewish theology doesn’t concern itself much with Heaven and Hell. In Christian theology there is Heaven, Hell, and Death. Death isn’t much discussed by preachers, but it is one of the 3 things that could happen after departing your worldly body.

One big debate has always been, can virtuous pagans go to Heaven? I don’t know if the Mother Church has settled on an answer for this. Calvinists say no .; 12/6/20, 7:15 PM
MountainMan said...: "Nobody has a southern accent in Georgia anymore?"

In the metro Atlanta area the majority of people are from somewhere else.; 12/6/20, 7:27 PM
rhhardin said...: The bible doesn't say who goes to heaven because that's not the important part of the message. Give the authors some literary credit.; 12/6/20, 7:27 PM
m stone said...: Jesus talks about the Kingdom, rh. Either you have it or you don't. It's not a place and matters most to Christians. Gospel of Matthew.

m; 12/6/20, 7:51 PM
mockturtle said...: One big debate has always been, can virtuous pagans go to Heaven? I don’t know if the Mother Church has settled on an answer for this. Calvinists say no .

Jesus saith unto him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." John 14:6.; 12/6/20, 7:52 PM
narciso said...: https://m.theepochtimes.com/voter-rights-group-notifies-doj-of-pakistani-link-with-nevada-election-email-system_3606561.html?st=8ndw_EXK; 12/6/20, 7:53 PM
mccullough said...: The Protestants are going to hell.

Everyone agrees on that.; 12/6/20, 7:54 PM
mockturtle said...: Sola Scriptura
Sola Gratia
Sola Fide
Solus Christus
Soli Deo Gloria; 12/6/20, 7:55 PM
William said...: Princesses: The first great Princess that I remember is Audrey Hepburn. Audrey Hepburn remains the greatest of all Princesses, but Princess Grace did a fine job. Grace had the added challenge of not having any scripted lines, but she did manage to pull it off. On the plus side, Monaco is more like a casino or tax haven than a real country and her regal duties were light....The royal family of England is something like a real job and not a movie role... Princess Anne was so completely not a storybook Princess that it might have been her salvation. No little girl wanted to grow up to be Princess Anne. She looked horsey and uninteresting and people left her alone. Princess Di had the worst of both worlds. She really did look like a storybook princess. People wanted to be close to the magic. Diane gave good value. I've seen pictures of her visiting dying kids. She really did look compassionate and caring. It was a role, but it wasn't an act.... Diane was the child of a troubled marriage. She had a few problems to work out and nothing about her married or public life served to alleviate them. I've never receive much in the way of adulation so I'm not speaking from experience, but it doesn't appear mass adulation helps you overcome marital problems or, for that matter, any of life's challenges. I suppose if she hadn't married into the royal family, she would have had a bad marriage or two and eventually settled down into a life of garden variety unhappiness.....As it was, she got caught in the vector of fantasy and reality. She became the shadow thrown upon the wall. Her life was a simulacrum until she hit the wall.; 12/6/20, 7:57 PM
mockturtle said...: Scripture alone
Grace alone
Faith alone
Christ alone
Glory to God alone; 12/6/20, 7:59 PM
YoungHegelian said...: @Gospace,

Jewish theology doesn’t concern itself much with Heaven and Hell.

But, traditional Rabbinic theology concerns itself very much with the Resurrection of the Body & The World to Come. The rabbis disagreed as to what HaOlam HaBa would be like, but it was a major concern. Of course, if you're surrounded by Reform & Secular Jews, you'd never ever know this, because they kicked it to the curb in 1885.

One big debate has always been, can virtuous pagans go to Heaven?

A good question. The answer is, yes, there is no doubt "leakage around the edges" to the maxim Extra ecclesiam nulla salus (Outside the Church, there is no salvation). For one thing, there is the Doctrine of Baptism of Desire, where those who die unbaptized, may in their time of transition to eternal life, accept, in essence, a post-death conversion to Christianity (see "Related Theological Views" at the link). There is also the notion of the Church Visible vs the Church Invisible, and while it's generally folks like the Calvinists who push the notion more, there would be no disagreement among Catholic theologians that the Visible Church can in no way be considered the only avenue of God's Grace & Power in the World. For one thing --- God's all-powerful and He can save whoever the fuck He wants to and in any way He wants to. And that is that.; 12/6/20, 7:59 PM
J. Farmer said...: "Political correctness is the fascism of the 90s. It's kind of this rigid feeling that you have to keep your ideas and your ways of looking at things within very narrow boundaries, or you'll offend someone. Certainly, one of the purposes of journalism is to challenge just that kind of thinking, and certainly one of the purposes of criticism is to break boundaries. It's also one of the purposes of art." -Roger Ebert, Siskel & Ebert Advise Young Movie Critics; 12/6/20, 8:01 PM
Humperdink said...: People sure want to complicate the salvation message, don't they mockturtle?; 12/6/20, 8:03 PM
Curious George said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 12/6/20, 8:04 PM
Gospace said...: And something I just remembered from the many discussions I’ve had with Bible thumpers, who often think I’m one of them. A significant number of fundamentalists support Israel for a reason not mentioned above. In order for The Rapture to occur, a Jewish state must exist. And they want to be part of The Rapture. Back when I was in HS (69-73) an important thing for a Bible thumper to know was whether or not you were saved. Because only the saved would be taken up in the rapture and it would be horrible to leave your Earthly boyfriend/girlfriend behind. Hence the Bible thumpers only dated among themselves. This wasn’t in the Deep South, this was an upscale NJ suburb. Graduating class of 400 so there was plenty of room for a lot of different groups. I was on the outskirts of many, the inner sanctum of none.

I assume there are high schools now with similar Bible thumper groups. The HS here is too small. My youngest’s graduating class was about 60, his older brother 90. Last year’s class 50.; 12/6/20, 8:04 PM
mockturtle said...: YoungHegelian, the Scriptures are pretty clear that believing Jews will recognize Christ as their Messiah when he returns to earth. I believe that believing Jews are still God's chosen people and that their saving faith was/is forward-looking to their Messiah.; 12/6/20, 8:05 PM
J. Farmer said...: Western culture is the secularization of the Germanization of the Romanization of the Hellenization of Hebrew mythology.; 12/6/20, 8:05 PM
YoungHegelian said...: @Humperdink,

People sure want to complicate the salvation message, don't they mockturtle?

If Physics is a complicated mess, why should the Ways of God to Man be any simpler?; 12/6/20, 8:06 PM
mockturtle said...: There are worse things to thump than the Bible, Gospace. ;-); 12/6/20, 8:06 PM
narciso said...: https://takecareblog.com/blog/how-to-decide-a-very-close-election-for-presidential-electors-part-2; 12/6/20, 8:06 PM
Dr Weevil said...: While gloating over the tough questions the press is asking Loeffler, Chuck doesn't mention any tough questions for Warnock. Have there been any? I suspect none at all, though there are a lot of questions he needs to answer.

For example: Do you think Trump is as bad as Hitler? Lots of Democrats say they do [name some]: do you? If Trump is like Hitler, wouldn't that justify stealing an election to get him out of the White House? [I'm not comfortable with the idea of killing babies, even baby Hitlers, but if I had a time machine I'd certainly be tempted to do some ballot-stuffing in the German election of 1933. Definite lesser of two evils there.] Do you think there was any cheating in this year's Presidential election? In Georgia? Do you think kicking out all the poll-watchers of the opposite party and then pulling suitcases of ballets out of hiding is OK? Why not? You're up against Hitler, right? Should the four suitcase-counters be prosecuted? How about rigging voting machines so they take 13% of all Trump votes and turn them into Biden votes? OK or not? Should there be thorough audits? Should we investigate the governor's and Secretary of State's finances to see if they took any bribes when they bought all the Dominion voting machines? Why not? They're Republicans and you want to screw over Republicans, don't you? Should Georgia dump the Dominion machines and go back to strict day-of voting on paper ballots counted by hand for the run-off just to make sure there's absolutely no doubt about the legitimacy of the winner this time?

Any reporters (or blog commenters) not asking Warnock these questions are not reporters (or blog commenters), they're shills for the Democrats, desperately trying to cover up the obvious cheating to get pervy Joe Biden into the White House and Trump out of it.; 12/6/20, 8:08 PM
mockturtle said...: God's all-powerful and He can save whoever the fuck He wants to and in any way He wants to. And that is that.

Ah, YH, so you believe in the sovereignty of God in salvation? That's very good coming from a Catholic. ;-); 12/6/20, 8:12 PM
YoungHegelian said...: @Gospace,

The Born Again, "Rapture" believing Christians of your youth were prime specimen Pre-millenial Dispensationalists.; 12/6/20, 8:12 PM
narciso said...: Funny how his embrace of fidel, his hatred for israel cops and the military arent an issue.; 12/6/20, 8:16 PM
mockturtle said...: Humperdink asks rhetorically, People sure want to complicate the salvation message, don't they mockturtle?

Indeed they do. They've been doing it for well over 2000 years. At their peril, I might add.; 12/6/20, 8:17 PM
narciso said...: Just the way they want it

https://thefederalist.com/2020/12/06/in-georgia-senate-debate-raphael-warnock-was-a-warm-relatable-liar/; 12/6/20, 8:25 PM
Michael K said...: It is the single most robotic performance I think I’ve ever seen from a national politician. I expect I won’t like Warnock’s voting record as a Senator but at least he’s a real person.

Yes, so was Obama except for that minor problem of his communist grandfather.

Warnock, like Obama, is a graduate of the "hate whitey" school of Rev Wright who went to an all white suburb to live when he retired.

It's a scam, Chuck, and you fell for it.; 12/6/20, 8:26 PM
Narr said...: You can say that again, Farmer.

As an empirical matter, I've never noticed that in the main the pious are any better--or better off--in this world than the impious are.

A distinguished older Jewish colleague of mine, now dead, run from Vienna as a young teenager by You Know Who, used to say that his family believed in three things-- This Welt (world), the Next Welt, and Roose-Welt.

Narr
The most pertinent theological question now, IMO, is one for Muslims: does Allah really hate you guys or does it just look that way?; 12/6/20, 8:28 PM
J. Farmer said...: If Physics is a complicated mess, why should the Ways of God to Man be any simpler?

And physics is the least complicated of all the scientific endeavors. It's not the subject so much as the way of knowing. But religion isn't really about being true in a literal sense anyway. It's about a set of customs, traditions, and values that bind people together through a common origin story and foundation myth. Paul universalized these elements of Jewish mythology through Jesus' apocalypticism and the belief that God's sacrifice of his Son for the benefit of humanity formed a new covenant that included the gentiles. It's a very radical notion because traditionally etiology served to emphasize a people's uniqueness and distinction from other people. Origin myths are the foundation of ethnic identity.; 12/6/20, 8:34 PM
narciso said...: I dont think has ever had such a left wing official for state office, makes julian bond seem like a goey moderate.; 12/6/20, 8:34 PM
mockturtle said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 12/6/20, 8:35 PM
mockturtle said...: This is interesting and somewhat disquieting:

WASHINGTON — U.S. intelligence shows that China has conducted "human testing" on members of the People's Liberation Army in hope of developing soldiers with "biologically enhanced capabilities," the top U.S. intelligence official said Friday...; 12/6/20, 8:37 PM
narciso said...: Medical ethics isnt really a thing in china; 12/6/20, 8:37 PM
Anonymous said...: I bought new slippers today. Small things can mean so much. They're pretty comfy.

We're talking about God now, on this thread.

When we talk about God, we're really talking about what comes next. Imagine this if you will. God creates a vessel within a woman. The vessel is designed to hold a soul. That soul is the most powerful energy that exists. The soul is not there yet. Still, the 'clumps' of cells is a vessel that the Potter (God) is creating... to hold a soul. Some folks say that we have technology to scrape away the vessel. We do. It's God's vessel, though. Think for a moment.

The vessel emerges, coughing out the phlegm and Mom's energy that sustained it.

It breathes in for the first time. The Soul enters and with the Soul, the energy that will power this vessel for the rest of it's Life. One day? One hundred days? One hundred years?

It cries out in pain.

Oh, I also bought some new underpants. There is not a soul on this planet that doesn't like new underpants. Just sayin'.; 12/6/20, 8:38 PM
Joe Smith said...: "...but Princess Grace did a fine job."

Grace Kelly was, imho, one of the most beautiful women who ever lived.

She also, according to old Hollywood gossip, slept with pretty much everybody she worked with, and gave the best blow jobs of any of the actresses of the day.

What a combination : ); 12/6/20, 8:41 PM
Rt41Rebel said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 12/6/20, 8:45 PM
Rt41Rebel said...: Chuck, from what I've read, over 70% of Reps and 30% of Dems believe that there was election fraud, I can't find an Ind stat. So you're saying that roughly half of all Americans believe in a nutty conspiracy theory and they should be ashamed of themselves?

GA is a red state, and I think that Loeffler screwed the pooch by just not flat out stating that yes, she thinks that something is rotten in Denmark, and that the stench needs to be investigated.; 12/6/20, 8:47 PM
narciso said...: Is that from some kitty kelly garbage ive seen her in dial m and toko ri, she has note of a role in the former.; 12/6/20, 8:48 PM
narciso said...: Gwenyth paltrow was in the remake, you can tell the difference with douglas replacing milland.; 12/6/20, 8:50 PM
William said...: I've read that after the destruction of The Temple and their exile from the Promised Land, many Jews were feeling a bit down on God. It was He who broken the Covenant and deserved punishment for His sins. Thus the the concept of a crucified God had some appeal for them. That's what I've read. I don't think any of the early Jewish believers in Christianity spelled it out quite so baldly....There was, however, one early Church Father who explicitly stated that one of the joys given to the elect in Heaven is looking down upon the eternal sufferings of those in Hell. I don't know if this continues to be Church doctrine, but it's apparent that at least one of the early Church Fathers wasn't particularly Christian. Just for how many thousands of years would you find entertainment in watching hot tar being poured into the orifices of your enemies? With me, five years top.; 12/6/20, 8:51 PM
Gahrie said...: knowing that they dare not upset PDJT or his followers but with no assurance that Trump voters will actually turn out without Trump on the ballot.

This is rich from someone pretending to be both a lifelong Republican and a Never Trumper.; 12/6/20, 8:51 PM
Howard said...: That's a cool way to look at it J Farmer.; 12/6/20, 8:52 PM
narciso said...: Thats an odd take on things, the events had been prophesied as far back as isiah.; 12/6/20, 8:53 PM
Rt41Rebel said...: "with no assurance that Trump voters will actually turn out without Trump on the ballot."

This is a quote from a poster that assures us that there was no election fraud despite the fact that down ballot Reps gained popularity even as Trump lost.; 12/6/20, 8:56 PM
narciso said...: It gets tiring talking to vizzini

https://pjmedia.com/columns/mark-ellis/2020/12/06/the-pendulum-notches-down-n1194202; 12/6/20, 9:00 PM
narciso said...: The only real reporter over there:

https://mobile.twitter.com/CBS_Herridge/status/1335683389702201347?fbclid=IwAR0J8efuGSpZ5GGTVuzygBygQyXo9Hixm73JvkiwEulVEj2HMQivCR06w-M; 12/6/20, 9:03 PM
narciso said...: I think we go straight to enemy action

Pg 6 Declassified FBI emails from "London debrief" Steele dossier used to secure 4 surveillance warrantsfor
@carterwpage
“After Comey's letter (Oct 28, 2016) reopening HRC (email) case, Fusion GPS (firm behind Dossier + opposition research) felt the gloves had come off" +
3:31 PM · Dec 6, 2020·Twitter for iPhone
3.4K
Retweets

Who pushed fusion, mark elias who is also behind the mail vote expansion.; 12/6/20, 9:06 PM
D. said...: All I want for Christmas is for the God Emperor to cross the Rubicon.; 12/6/20, 9:07 PM
Sally327 said...: I just read an article that Trump is no longer making any effort to do his job as President and spends all his time either in rage over the myriad conspiracies that deprived him of a second term or depressed because nothing he can say or do will change the result. The article is here

At first I thought, this isn't true, Trump is no Mad King, we'd know if this were true, there would be signs, he wouldn't be able to hide it. But then I thought, well, I don't know, maybe it is true. What do I know? Other than, it's an effective narrative, to portray him in this way, as a bad loser being driven mad through the futility of his frustration.; 12/6/20, 9:11 PM
Quayle said...: What happened was all known by the prophets of Israel. They were known by Abraham, and Jacob, and Joseph, and Moses.
See e.g. ‘the first shall be last, and the last shall be first.’

Before the “judgement” every person who ever lived on the earth will have a chance to hear the gospel and accept it. Nobody will be left behind that wants to come along. Those that are left behind, are only left because they sat down and said “I’m not doing it; I don’t want it.” (Hard to believe, yes there are such souls.); 12/6/20, 9:15 PM
John henry said...: narciso said...

I dont think has ever had such a left wing official for state office, makes julian bond seem like a goey moderate.

******

Henry Wallace?

Fdr's vp

John Henry; 12/6/20, 9:17 PM
narciso said...: In georgia, i was referring to, we had our close call with gillum.; 12/6/20, 9:20 PM
narciso said...: Yes but i focus on isiah because it was how he started His sermon in his home town; 12/6/20, 9:27 PM
effinayright said...: Sally327 said...

"At first I thought, this isn't true, Trump is no Mad King, we'd know if this were true, there would be signs, he wouldn't be able to hide it. But then I thought, well, I don't know, maybe it is true. What do I know? Other than, it's an effective narrative, to portray him in this way, as a bad loser being driven mad through the futility of his frustration."
**************

Oh for fuck's sake---did you see him spend 2 hours in front of that FLA crowd yesterday?

Did he act like a loser, or a fighter?

Did he appear to have been driven mad?

No, you didn't see him and instead just bought the "narrative" being pushed.

Pathetic.; 12/6/20, 9:28 PM
John henry said...: I've been a fan of van Morrison since Gloria. My favorite album may be Moondance (it's hard to pick just one)

"Into the Mystic" may be the best song on the album.

I've always heard as "we were borne before the sun"

Apparently van likes a bit of ambiguity. It might be "we were born before the son" and some other potentially ambiguous spellings.

Gerard vanderluen has an interesting post about the song.

Mayfit right in with the religious tone of this thread.

Hymns to the Silence would be right up ther with Moondance album. It's more explicitly religious.

http://americandigest.org/interlude-the-allman-brothers-into-the-mystic/

John Henry; 12/6/20, 9:32 PM
Readering said...: Trump not being driven mad. He is mad. Just angrier.; 12/6/20, 9:36 PM
John henry said...: It occurs to me thst I bought Moondance on vinyl in the 60s,cassette in the 90s and CD in the 90s.

I have it as mp3 now but I don't think I bought it. I most likely ripped it from the CD.
Still, selling me the same album 3 times...

It's a really great album

John Henry; 12/6/20, 9:37 PM
wild chicken said...: "every person who ever lived on the earth will have a chance to hear the gospel and accept it."

Which one? There are four.; 12/6/20, 9:37 PM
mockturtle said...: Grace Kelly was, imho, one of the most beautiful women who ever lived.

Have to agree, even as a woman. There are scenes of her in To Catch a Thief where she is truly breathtaking.; 12/6/20, 9:37 PM
Readering said...: Joe Smith we agree on something. I would add that most of the most beautiful female film stars were ethnic Irish.; 12/6/20, 9:39 PM
John henry said...: Speaking of isiah

For I the Lord thy God will hold thy right hand, saying unto thee, Fear not; I will help thee.

41:13; 12/6/20, 9:41 PM
Sally327 said...: Oh for fuck's sake---did you see him spend 2 hours in front of that FLA crowd yesterday?

This sounds like the same sort of thing people were saying before the election, look at Trump's rallies, see how many people are showing up, standing in line for hours, he's going to win, yea!!

Meanwhile, Rudy Giuliani has been hospitalized with COVID-19.; 12/6/20, 9:43 PM
Readering said...: Trump plans to hold a rally at same time as inauguration? I better check if I have CSPAN 3.; 12/6/20, 9:43 PM
narciso said...: Indeed, this is the cost of driving the bible out of public life.; 12/6/20, 9:46 PM
narciso said...: You know i havent seen that one at least entirely; 12/6/20, 9:50 PM
narciso said...: I guess thats right then:

https://www.express.co.uk/expressyourself/313542/Grace-The-untold-story; 12/6/20, 9:55 PM
narciso said...: She didnt seem that warm toward ray milland but maybe that was acting as well.; 12/6/20, 9:56 PM
John henry said...: Hmmmm...

Last week all the talk was that because Alito was going to hold a hearing on the 9th,after the deadline, the hearing was meaningless.

Last night he moved the hearing up before the deadline. Now, crickets.

I wonder what lawyerly words of wisdom our resident llr and official resident "dick" might have to share with us?

John Henry; 12/6/20, 9:58 PM
Joe Smith said...: "I would add that most of the most beautiful female film stars were ethnic Irish."

In 'real life' the most beautiful women I know tend to be Norwegian...; 12/6/20, 10:00 PM
effinayright said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 12/6/20, 10:04 PM
effinayright said...: LIV Sally327 said...
Oh for fuck's sake---did you see him spend 2 hours in front of that FLA crowd yesterday?

This sounds like the same sort of thing people were saying before the election, look at Trump's rallies, see how many people are showing up, standing in line for hours, he's going to win, yea!!

***************

You read an article that claimed Trump was mad and raging, while he was neither mad nor raging yesterday at the GA rally. You believed, and apparently still believe, the article's premise---despite the contrary evidence you refuse to look at.

And yes, the size was Trump's rallies---as opposed to Biden shunning rallies and attracting only a few people to his gatherings--- was indeed evidence that Trump would win, but no one said it was "proof" that he would.

(by the way, this topic and the article you read were discussed very thoroughly on AA beginning this morning. I guess you missed it).; 12/6/20, 10:05 PM
Readering said...: Joe Smith, we agree again. Most beautiful woman I ever knew personally was a Norwegian i hired as a document translator for a case against a Norwegian company.; 12/6/20, 10:14 PM
Readering said...: John Henry there will be no hearing. USSC will rule on papers. Alito could deny on his own, or refer to entire court. But ruling on emergency application on the papers.; 12/6/20, 10:17 PM
Iman said...: Western culture is the secularization of the Germanization of the Romanization of the Hellenization of Hebrew mythology

Discuss amongst yourselves

— - Linda Richman, Coffee Talk; 12/6/20, 10:17 PM
Crazy World said...: Where’s Obama? Heard some credible news this week but I shall keep that to myself for now. Aloha; 12/6/20, 10:22 PM
narciso said...: Speaking of georgia

https://m.imdb.com/name/nm2180812/; 12/6/20, 10:25 PM
walter said...: It's crazy to question the dominance of..Joementia!; 12/6/20, 10:27 PM
Anonymous said...: Things have changed. The Progs are pushing their Reset. They have it all. News Media, Academe, Hollywood, K-12, Politicians.

It shouldn't have gotten this far, but the Progs decided we wanted FemWorld. We needed to examine our fragility.

Men, stop whining. Stop uptalking. Stop saying 'pee' when you mean 'piss'.

Put on the armor of God. We got a fight, and it will be glorious. What else do you have to do in this World that Satan rules? (Bet you never heard that in your happy, happy, joy, joy, love, love FemChurch); 12/6/20, 10:29 PM
mccullough said...: Grace Kelly was half-Irish and half-German.

And she wasn’t a natural blonde.; 12/6/20, 10:30 PM
walter said...: Meade..you alive? Banned from Althouse?; 12/6/20, 10:30 PM
stephen cooper said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 12/6/20, 10:33 PM
Churchy LaFemme: said...: The 50th anniversary edition of Moondance is out now. Among other things it has I Shall Sing which ended up going to Art Garfunkle the first time around.

Sometime around Back On Top, which I consider the last classic Van album, it seems to have occured to Morrison that despite all the mystic Celtic Christianity, he was going to die anyway. All the Hymns To The Silence type stuff went away and we got things like Precious Time instead. He also decided he was a leathery full-tilt old blues-man like John Lee Hooker..

I've seen him three times, btw: Awful show with Linda Gail Williams in LA around 2000 and two great shows in Atlanta years later.

One thing about full-tilt leathery old blues-men: They don't take nuttin'. Van has been way out front lately on the whole lockdown thing.; 12/6/20, 10:34 PM
walter said...: Chuck! opined "I expect I won’t like Warnock’s voting record as a Senator but at least he’s a real person."
This comment is DOPE!; 12/6/20, 10:35 PM
walter said...: Gotta wonder which R meets Chuck!'s LLR standards.; 12/6/20, 10:37 PM
walter said...: ..probably Mittens.; 12/6/20, 10:38 PM
narciso said...: Fideloflake, the erswhile amash.; 12/6/20, 10:39 PM
walter said...: Perhaps Chuck! won't like court packing, 2 more Dem states and more amnesty..but so long as real persons are hammering them through, fine with it.
Conserving Conservatism.; 12/6/20, 10:43 PM
Readering said...: Not a natural blond. I guess few are. That Norwegian I knew ....; 12/6/20, 10:49 PM
gilbar said...: you know,
i've done some thinking; and i have come to realize that i may have been wrong about Chuck

I claimed, that he'd "never voted for a republican (for President), in his life".
But, looking at the voting record for Michigan, before Donald Trump; he might well have felt that he could have voted for a republican... Because before Donald Trump, no republican had a chance of winning Michigan
Not Bush, not Dole, not W Bush, not mcCain, not Romney
In Each of those elections, it looks like Michigan was in the bag for the Dems; so Chuck could safely 'vote' for a losing Republican
HELL! he might even have been convinced that Trump couldn't have won there either
Which would explain his irrational hatred of the First (and ONLY) time a Republican won in Michgan

Still, i doubt that he ever did vote republican, but he might have (IF he Knew it wouldn't matter); 12/6/20, 10:50 PM
narciso said...: I didnt see enough of high noon, they didnt accuse her of an affair with william holden in toko ri did they.; 12/6/20, 10:55 PM
narciso said...: Another story down the drain

https://mobile.twitter.com/kristina_wong/status/1335793168118329345; 12/6/20, 10:57 PM
walter said...: Ohh right..Kasich. Chuck! surely likes Kasich.
Did you know his dad worked for USPS?
Same USPS that has workers as affiants re election fraud.; 12/6/20, 10:57 PM
narciso said...: I never heard that

https://mobile.twitter.com/mouse458/status/1335770557581758473; 12/6/20, 10:59 PM
Joe Smith said...: "...they didnt accuse her of an affair with william holden in toko ri did they."

Afraid so...; 12/6/20, 11:31 PM
narciso said...: That one seemed more natural

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thewonderfulworldofcinema.wordpress.com/2015/11/12/a-pair-of-blue-eyes-grace-kelly-and-william-holden/amp/; 12/6/20, 11:35 PM
Drago said...: walter: "Gotta wonder which R meets Chuck!'s LLR standards."

When you've got a faux LLR like Chuck coming out strong for a devoted marxist senatorial candidate in GA the day after Chuckles came out swinging for Hillary!, one begins to understand that even most democraticals are not far enough to the left to satisfy LLR-lefty Chuck.; 12/6/20, 11:36 PM
Sprezzatura said...: My favorite word with double ‘z’ is pizza.

IMHO.; 12/6/20, 11:44 PM
narciso said...: I know lauren bacall stole the show in the big sleep, thats another one where the chemistry is evident yet subtle

https://m.imdb.com/name/nm0540416/?ref_=vp_back; 12/6/20, 11:45 PM
Sprezzatura said...: This is second favorite.

So move this new name to the Meadehouse shit list.

Full disclosure.; 12/6/20, 11:47 PM
Sprezzatura said...: Was anti......; 12/6/20, 11:48 PM
narciso said...: Thats dorothy malone from the little book ahop scene that is practically an oversight in the book. Good noir is hard to pull off today because there is almost no light.; 12/6/20, 11:52 PM
narciso said...: In recent times amber wallis from peaky blunders had some of the presence but has made some poor choices (notably leaving peaky blinders) for tag and the mummy.; 12/6/20, 11:56 PM
narciso said...: In the same region

https://www.express.co.uk/showbiz/tv-radio/786273/Riviera-season-1-cast-Game-of-Thrones-Iwan-Rheon-Julia-Stile-Adrian-Lester-Sky-Atlantic; 12/7/20, 12:00 AM
narciso said...: Too many old arguments over politics and religion.

https://m.imdb.com/name/nm1834115/; 12/7/20, 12:09 AM
narciso said...: Some of the poirot series from the 90s had interesting casting; 12/7/20, 12:38 AM
tim maguire said...: mockturtle said...YoungHegelian, the Scriptures are pretty clear that believing Jews will recognize Christ as their Messiah when he returns to earth. I believe that believing Jews are still God's chosen people and that their saving faith was/is forward-looking to their Messiah.

I can’t talk about it scripturally, but this was the position of the nuns in grammar school—the Jews are still God’s chosen people, they cannot get into heaven without accepting Jesus, but they will get an extra chance on judgment day.; 12/7/20, 4:11 AM
Humperdink said...: wild chicken: "every person who ever lived on the earth will have a chance to hear the gospel and accept it."

Which one? There are four."

As one bible teacher explained when one this questioned was posed: Visualize four people standing at four corners of an intersection witnessing an accident. They each will have different perspectives of the same event.; 12/7/20, 5:18 AM
wildswan said...: J. Farmer said...
Western culture is the secularization of the Germanization of the Romanization of the Hellenization of Hebrew mythology.... Origin myths are the foundation of ethnic identity.

Interesting. But can an origin myth survive secularization?; 12/7/20, 5:39 AM
wildswan said...: People disagree with me because they are rooted in sexism, racism and misogyny and they don't know it because they are rooted in sexism, racism and misogyny and they deny it because they are rooted in sexism, racism and misogyny and we should re-educate them so they are not rooted in sexism, racism and misogyny but they will resist because they are rooted in sexism, racism and misogyny and so we need to put them in camps to re-educate them so they are not rooted in sexism, racism and misogyny and this is helping them because they are rooted in sexism, racism and misogyny and need to stop being rooted in sexism, racism and misogyny. Really I don't know why people have been going to college when the everything is explained by "rooted in sexism, racism and misogyny" as it is ... because ... rooted in sexism, racism and misogyny. It is. In sexism, racism and misogyny. Rooted. Roobety, booted, smexism.; 12/7/20, 5:50 AM
Rusty said...: But what made Judism unique, J.?; 12/7/20, 5:54 AM
Fernandinande said...: Next time you watch Shane check out the lighting changes in the scene where Jack Palance kills Elisha Cook. I'm surprised they left it that way.; 12/7/20, 6:12 AM
Fernandinande said...: (Hard to believe, yes there are such souls.)

It's hard to believe that those goofy old ghost stories are taken seriously.; 12/7/20, 6:15 AM
Michael K said...: Blogger narciso said...

I know lauren bacall stole the show in the big sleep, thats another one where the chemistry is evident yet subtle

https://m.imdb.com/name/nm0540416/?ref_=vp_back

One of my favorites because there is so much Los Angeles history in it. The movie, of course, could only hint at the porno theme of the book.; 12/7/20, 8:19 AM
mockturtle said...: Hercules exhorts: Put on the armor of God. We got a fight, and it will be glorious. What else do you have to do in this World that Satan rules? (Bet you never heard that in your happy, happy, joy, joy, love, love FemChurch)

Well said. Men have no one but themselves to blame for the demise of the church. So much easier to let women make the decisions. Things haven't changed much since Adam and Eve.; 12/7/20, 8:24 AM
Francisco D said...: John henry said...I've been a fan of van Morrison since Gloria. My favorite album may be Moondance

We saw Van the Man in concert in early February. It was absolutely terrific.

I think that Astral Weeks is his best album, but my opinion changes every now and then.; 12/7/20, 8:49 AM
Big Mike said...: Gotta wonder which R meets Chuck!'s LLR standards.

Stacy Abrams.; 12/7/20, 9:40 AM
Bruce Hayden said...: Got suckered into a free read on Kindle for “How to Judge People by What They Look Like”. The author divides the population in a number of ways, and one of them is by fast and slow reproductive clocks. These are essentially the two competing sexual strategies that I have talked about before, between guys having a lot of sex with a lot of women, but not sticking around to help raise them, and the slower one of selecting for long term parenting and faithfulness ability. It’s going to be hard to tell my partner that her larger breasts, high cheekbones, symmetric features, and somewhat blond hair (a throwback, because her parents and all four siblings had dark hair) are most attractive to males who want to fuck and run. Which is why we have always been the odd couple - I have never been attracted to beautiful women, but rather the slow burn type, smart, educated, and interested in delayed gratification and long term commitment.

That is when my thoughts went sideways. Her father had her lightening fast brain and photographic memory, along with classic French features, without being short. He was a looker and a charmer. But he loved fighting. (I mentioned earlier that my partner’s family grew up socializing with Harry Reid’s - and part of that was the two fathers reminiscing about their Golden Gloves days). Or did until her mother put her foot down, and gave him an ultimatum: fighting, or her and the kids. He was a Union welder. Until fate intervened, he was injured on the job, and was retrained into a profession where his charm and brains made him a lot of money. And became a Republican.

It got me thinking about fighting, unions, and politics. Harry Reid was a boxer. That wouldn’t have been attractive in a Republican politician at the time. They were more likely to vote for someone they could meet at the country club. The men who were more likely to enjoy fisticuffs, or a good old fashioned bar fight were much more likely Democrats. Often union members. Growing up, the Democrats were the Union party, while Republicans were the management party. Not anymore. The Dem party represents the lower classes, those on welfare, illegals, etc., as well as the corporate elite and much of the elite university educated. The very top and the very bottom economically, with the GOP in the middle. Trump just solidified that. The bulk of the private sector Union population is now Republican, as well as the enlisted ranks in the military. That includes most enlisted combat veterans since the military went all volunteer, after Vietnam.

Where this is going is that the Dems’ militant wing esp AntiFA, have been accused of being pencil necked geeks, playing their video games in real life. Many appear to have been raised upper middle class, ending up with worthless college degrees, living in their parents’ basements, etc. They are not natural fighters. My partner’s brothers grew up boxing. AntiFA probably didn’t. Nor played football in HS, etc. Nor did they serve in combat. Not their class.

This is what I think that the leftists here don’t understand when they tell us that Trump’s Republican base will just have to take it. Accept the stolen election. For the “good” of the country. That they aren’t going to fight back, and whoop some AntiFA ass. Romney’s Republican base wouldn’t have. But the party demographics have changed drastically. The lower middle class that the Dems have traditionally used as their muscle are now Trumpsters. Currently they are leashed by traditional Republican expectations. My expectation is that that leash will be loosed in January, if Biden is inaugurated. Sure, there are going to be some rumbles, but the Dems’ control over the police guarantee politicized law enforcement. And, the combat vets know that distance is their friend. A deer rifle at deer hunting distances, or an AR-15 at Afghanistan combat distances, is the way to go.

Should be interesting.; 12/7/20, 10:19 AM
Bruce Hayden said...: A Brit’s Perspective of the Turmoil Festering in America

OK, the first thing to say is to apologize for the sheer cheek of some upstart limey like me commenting on the election in America, but I have to say something because I am sitting here in shocked astonishment looking at what appears to be an engineered tyrannical coup d’état against not just President Trump but against the very ideal of democracy itself.

The world outside the democratic West is a very brutal place. No left-leaning liberal would wish to live in Saudi Arabia, or Sierra Leone, or countless other such places. No left leaning liberal would wish to have lived in Europe during most of the decades of the 20th century which saw so much devastation and death courtesy of political totalitarians seeking nothing more than power and nothing other than power.

These corrupt, totalitarian systems were finally defeated because America fought on the right side of good v evil, of freedom versus tyranny and did so at great sacrifice in terms of the many young men who never made it home again, who died in foreign fields and foreign seas in order to preserve freedom and democracy.

Yet here we are, toward the end of 2020 looking at the very real possibility of the breakdown of democracy in America itself. What would have been unthinkable for so long, over so many generations of Americans, can no longer be considered unthinkable. If this gross subversion of democracy is not dealt with in a satisfactory manner by the lawyers then I see no reason, no reason at all why America should not descend into violence and potential civil war in the worst case scenario, or simply lose all confidence in any future elections as a best case scenario — which can only and inexorably lead to the worst case scenario again.; 12/7/20, 12:20 PM
Bruce Hayden said...: Young, left-wing Americans will consider such a viewpoint insane, but young left-wing Americans know little of the brutality of the non-democratic parts of the world and little about just why that brutality never encroached upon their decadent lives.

They know nothing about Nazism, fascism, socialism or Communism. Indeed, they believe President Trump and the people who admire and respect Trump are Nazis and fascists all, whilst they believe socialism and communism to be pure and good. This type of brainwashed ignorance is extraordinarily dangerous in a people of any country because no matter their ignorance and no matter how wrong they are, they truly believe they are standing up for what is good, for what is right and for what is moral. And because they feel that they, and they alone hold the moral high ground, then all who oppose them are not just wrong, they are evil and when it comes to evil and the defeat of evil, then the ends justify the means — just as so many people amongst so many previous generations have similarly believed which is why the history book of the world is a history book of war, horror and atrocity.

What we are looking at today in America is just another iteration of purported good versus purported evil where the end justifies the means. President Trump is evil and must be removed scream the Left, but lacking the democratic means to remove him, he must instead be removed by any means necessary because the end justifies the means. The foolish, spoiled, decadent, ignorant little children in adult bodies who are now, right now engineering the coup d’état to remove President Trump are playing with fire. In their hazy, fuddled, naïve, closed minded thinking they feel there will be no real world consequences resulting from their action, but their naïveté is dangerously unlike the pragmatism of revolutionaries in the brutal and undemocratic parts of the world who know full well that if they fail in their coup they will be killed and if they win they will do the killing.

Destroying the democratic foundations of America will certainly have real world consequences. When Donald Trump won the Presidency in 2016 the far-left cried Russian collusion and displayed their visceral hatred across the entire left-wing spectrum, but their anger wasn’t based on the undermining of democracy; their anger was merely that of the petulant, spoiled child denied a shiny bauble. Their anger was lukewarm, false, unjustifiable. Their anger was mere political posturing and they now think the anger of Trump supporters is the same — mere political posturing.

But how wrong they are. How dangerously wrong they are. The anger of Trump’s supporters is white hot, it is incendiary, it is real and it is entirely, eminently justifiable, and it is not the anger of the loser, it is the anger of the wronged and is about so much more than Trump, this is about the democratic future of the United States of America. When a country reaches the point of such legal corruption and such moral degeneracy that democracy can be overturned in full view of a complicit and unquestioning media and liberal establishment there is very little guarantee that democracy will ever recover. This is why the anger is at boiling point, and even now, the left cannot understand what they have done.; 12/7/20, 12:24 PM
Bruce Hayden said...: Before we settled into peaceful, democratic nations, power was decided by Kings, swords, and armies. Power rested with bloody battle and bloody victory. Democratic politics replaced battle and war in the West, but it has always been understood that democratic politics is war by other means and that if democracy is removed from politics then we can only go back to bloody battle and bloody war.

The trouble with the left-wing, especially the young and cossetted who have never experienced the horrors of war, is that they don’t understand this simple premise. They don’t understand the importance of democracy and thus they cannot appreciate the volcanic anger amongst those who would peacefully yet unhappily accept a fair political defeat, but who will never accept defeat if it comes from the grinding jackboot of a subverted democracy.

When one local gang squares off with another gang, the violence is quickly over. But when one half of a country squares off with the other, the violence is slow and sporadic in the beginning and just as in 1990s Yugoslavia the levels of violence and tit-for-tat reprisals build and build until finally a genuine civil war breaks out in all its primeval savagery and mass slaughter.

I don’t need to spell out the numbers of Americans with guns, but I do need, apparently, to point out that the anger of millions of armed Americans is being stoked to stratospherically dangerous levels and that these angry people are justifiably enraged. Many of you watching this video will hear my words resonate with your thoughts, and many supporters of the 2nd Amendment will right now be saying that the main, overriding reason for the 2nd Amendment is not to shoot deer but to defend America against a tyrannical government. Perhaps now is a good moment to say that in times of war our dead soldiers are always politely remembered for having died in the defense of democracy, but the dying part was never their intention. Their intention was to very impolitely kill the aggressors who wanted to impose a tyranny upon them and here we are today, in late 2020, looking at a scenario which consists of a tyrannical coup d’état in the face of a hundred million armed and angry Americans who are convinced their democratic rights have been trampled upon and subverted.

I hope and pray this will be resolved by the legal process, but I implore the Democrats, the left-wingers, the socialists and the communists to stop pretending what you have done is acceptable. It is not, and the consequences could be catastrophic both for you, for America and for the world. You are amongst the luckiest people ever to have existed on this planet. You represent a fleeting moment in time when you can live as no people before you have ever lived. Yet still you are unhappy. Cut off and cosseted from a world of brutality, poverty and misery you exist at the furthest extremity of decadence where your immense good fortune goes unrecognized and is instead replaced with a misplaced sense of bitterness, envy and hatred. You live in a wonderful country at a time of never before seen peace and prosperity, of freedom and democracy, yet you are now engaged in an action that could bring about the horrors of 20th century Europe. I am, as I say, an upstart limey, but this upstart limey is filled with a sense of foreboding and I beg you to stop what you are doing before the unthinkable becomes a physical reality. If you overturn democracy then America will become just another part of the brutal undemocratic world and if that happens nothing will ever, ever be the same again. END; 12/7/20, 12:26 PM
Robert Cook said...: "I dont think has ever had such a left wing official for state office, makes julian bond seem like a goey moderate."

Who are you referring to?; 12/7/20, 1:24 PM
Robert Cook said...: "'This is interesting and somewhat disquieting:'

"WASHINGTON — U.S. intelligence shows that China has conducted "human testing" on members of the People's Liberation Army in hope of developing soldiers with "biologically enhanced capabilities," the top U.S. intelligence official said Friday....
"

Don't worry; it's coming from US Intelligence, which means it's either completely wrong or a total lie.

(And, in the unlikely chance there is even a whisper of truth to this, what kind of "biological enhancement" can actually be accomplished? Also, if we were to get into a military war with China, it would be conducted with missles and bombs, or through hacking and subverting of computer networks and electric systems and not with soldiers on the ground.); 12/7/20, 1:35 PM
Robert Cook said...: "Indeed, this is the cost of driving the bible out of public life."

What are you referring to?; 12/7/20, 1:39 PM
Robert Cook said...: "This is what I think that the leftists here don’t understand when they tell us that Trump’s Republican base will just have to take it. Accept the stolen election. For the 'good' of the country."

To date, there has been no proof put forth that the election was stolen. Saying it doesn't make it so. Wishing doesn't make it so. Only incontrovertible proof can make it so. Until such proof is produced, Trump has no case.; 12/7/20, 1:49 PM
Bruce Hayden said...: “ To date, there has been no proof put forth that the election was stolen. Saying it doesn't make it so. Wishing doesn't make it so. Only incontrovertible proof can make it so. Until such proof is produced, Trump has no case.”

Is your position that no cheating by Democrats and election officials in the six key states occurred? Or that the cheating and illegally counted ballots did not rise to the level of swinging the election to Biden? Need to know, in order to tailor my responses.; 12/7/20, 1:58 PM
Bruce Hayden said...: Moreover, legally, the proof merely has to be by a predominance of the evidence, and with credible allegations, the burden should be on the state election officials to show that the election was honest.; 12/7/20, 2:00 PM
mockturtle said...: Cookie asserts: To date, there has been no proof put forth that the election was stolen.

In a letter from my Congressman today is this excerpt:

"A recent hand count of a random sampling of ballots, ordered by a superior court judge, determined that 3% of the votes in Maricopa County were fraudulently recorded against President Trump and in favor of Biden. Considering that Biden supposedly “won” by .06%, this theft of votes is more than enough to put Arizona in President Trump’s column and restore his lawful and rightful victory."; 12/7/20, 2:24 PM
walter said...: Steve Deace
@SteveDeaceShow
·
7h
Right now Georgia is determined by about 23k votes.
Quote Tweet
Charlie Kirk
@charliekirk11
· 21h
In Georgia Alone, sworn testimony alleges:

2,056 felons illegally voted
66,248 under 18 voted
2,423 weren’t registered
1,043 used a PO Box to register
10,315 died before the election
395 voted in 2 states
15,700 moved out of GA
40,279 changed county & didn’t re-register to vote; 12/7/20, 2:46 PM
I'm Not Sure said...: After four years of investigations, lefties still think there's *something* Trump can be locked up for, if only they look a little harder.

Election fraud? Move along, folks- nothing to see here.; 12/7/20, 2:51 PM
Michael K said...: Only incontrovertible proof can make it so. Until such proof is produced, Trump has no case.

Comrade Stalin required such proof or you got the bullet in the neck.

Cook never heard of "preponderance of evidence."

None so blind as will not see.; 12/7/20, 3:08 PM
Michael K said...: but the Dems’ control over the police guarantee politicized law enforcement.

I think "Defund the Police" is even alienating the chiefs and the unions.; 12/7/20, 3:17 PM
Robert Cook said...: "Is your position that no cheating by Democrats and election officials in the six key states occurred? Or that the cheating and illegally counted ballots did not rise to the level of swinging the election to Biden?"

I would not be surprised if there were some voting anomalies--for and against each candidate, either through accident or by intent--but there has been no compelling documentation of sufficient fraud that would change the outcome of the election, as AG Barr said the other day. If there were, Trump's barrage of lawsuits would not continue to be swept aside.

My brief look at the testimony the other day of the crazy bleached blonde sitting next to Rudy "Has Been" Giuliani tells me they have virtually nothing, else why put forth such a self-discrediting nitwit to try to make a case?; 12/7/20, 4:17 PM
mockturtle said...: but there has been no compelling documentation of sufficient fraud that would change the outcome of the election, as AG Barr said the other day.

What Barr said, IIRC, is that 'we have seen no evidence'. Far different, yes?; 12/7/20, 4:19 PM
Qwinn said...: "but there has been no compelling documentation of sufficient fraud that would change the outcome of the election, as AG Barr said the other day. "

I remember when a guy I knew cheated and copied nine of my answers out of a hundred on a test. I got a 100. The teacher decided that since those 9 answers wouldn't have reduced the grade to a B, he got to keep the A.

Oh, no. Actually, that's not what happened. He got expelled.

(This is not a true story, just making a point of what would happen under any sane circumstance. Cheating is not made okay because you *may* not have cheated enough to increase your grade.); 12/7/20, 4:27 PM
Qwinn said...: And pushing the *presumption* that it wasn't enough to swing the election is, it has to be said, fucking moronic. There's no advantage at all, nothing worth the risk, in cheating *less* than needed to make a difference.

And when observers are kicked out, election data destroyed (even in the face of an order to preserve it by the US Supreme Court), massive shenanigans on compromised voting systems, a LITERAL THOUSAND affidavits witnessing the fraud, you will never, ever make any of us believe that your attempt to argue for a *presumption* that it wasn't enough to matter is anything but deliberate complicity in the election theft.; 12/7/20, 4:31 PM
Robert Cook said...: "What Barr said, IIRC, is that 'we have seen no evidence'. Far different, yes?"

No, not that I can discern. Barr is Trump's AG. Who is the "we" who have "seen no evidence" to support Trump's fraud claims? Presumably, that "we" includes Barr, and Trump, and other pertinent parties in the administration. How would Trump and/or others have seen such alleged evidence without Barr being aware of it?; 12/7/20, 4:42 PM
Robert Cook said...: "And pushing the *presumption* that it wasn't enough to swing the election is, it has to be said, fucking moronic. There's no advantage at all, nothing worth the risk, in cheating *less* than needed to make a difference."

Hey, that's Barr's assertion. This suggests that the voting anomalies that may have occurred are results of error and not of intent or machination. Barr's own statement impeaches Trump's claims.; 12/7/20, 4:47 PM
Qwinn said...: The next time you people come up with an argument that isn't 100% pure appeal to authority will be the first.; 12/7/20, 4:51 PM
Michael K said...: there has been no compelling documentation of sufficient fraud that would change the outcome of the election,

Hey, those 3 AM coffee breaks occur every election.

Cook is left of Lenin so his opinion is about as valuable as Inga's.; 12/7/20, 5:07 PM
Michael K said...: Speaking of cheating. There was a guy in my medical school class who cheated on exams.

Nobody turned him in but we all decided we would never refer a patient to him. He went into Radiology so he was harmless.; 12/7/20, 5:10 PM
Bruce Hayden said...: “ If there were, Trump's barrage of lawsuits would not continue to be swept aside.”

I would suggest just the opposite, that the judges are dismissing the cases on bogus technicalities because they desperately don’t want to look at the evidence submitted:
- PA judges dismiss case before the election as not ripe, and after election for latches. Damned if they do, and damned if they don’t.
- WI (I believe) judge dismissed case with stacks of sworn affidavits because it was all hearsay. But, of course, most, if not all, of the affidavits fell well within well established hearsay exceptions, and therefore admissible. The same judge, day in and day out, very likely accepts affidavits for proof of one matter or another, or at least to show sufficient evidence to get to court.
- GA federal judge just dismissed case because the plaintiffs supposedly didn’t have standing and believed it should have been filed in state court. Except that the plaintiffs were some of the Republican electors, and the first several claims in the complaint were federal Constitutional claims - Equal Protection under the 14th Amdt and both Elections (Article I) and Electors (Article II), which the federal district court had primary jurisdiction over.

I think that it is very clear what is going on - the courts, at the suggestion by the Dem attorneys, are running out the election clocks with these bogus technicalities. A judge saying that there was no evidence of fraud, despite 50-100 sworn affidavits having been filed in the case, just looks like he wants to bury the election fraud, and get Biden inaugurated as fast as he can. That isn’t going to be the least bit satisfactory with many, if not most, of Trump’s 75+ million voters. Thumbing your noses at them will just make kinetic violence that much more likely. My view is that with all of the evidence of fraud disclosed so far, the burden is now on Biden and the Dems to show that they didn’t win by cheating, because, if they don’t, the well armed half of this country that voted for Trump will continue to believe that the election was stolen utilizing massive voter fraud.; 12/7/20, 5:15 PM
Robert Cook said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 12/7/20, 5:38 PM
Robert Cook said...: "I think that it is very clear what is going on - the courts, at the suggestion by the Dem attorneys, are running out the election clocks with these bogus technicalities."

So all the judges are in on the fix?

But of course...Trump can never fail, but can only be done in by the treachery of others.; 12/7/20, 5:42 PM
mockturtle said...: You might be surprised, Cookie, at just how deep the Deep State is.; 12/7/20, 5:56 PM
Qwinn said...: Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't not one but two judges in PA order that the certification should not proceed and asserted that Trump was likely to win on the merits of their Constitutional argument?

Then the PA Supreme Court threw it out on technicalities.

Guess those judges' opinions doesn't count.; 12/7/20, 6:26 PM
Qwinn said...: Utterly bogus technicalities, mind you. The "not in a timely manner" bullshit, basically reducing the window in which election fraud could be litigated to a tiny 3 week window. Utter bullshit.; 12/7/20, 6:28 PM
Qwinn said...: So, no, Cookie, not all the judges were in on the fix.

Just enough. The PA Supreme Court was *actively* in on the fix, actively changing the election rules to enable fraud.

For them to find in Trump's favor would have been to incriminate themselves.

And you demand we accept their authority in this? Heh. No.; 12/7/20, 6:33 PM
I'm Not Sure said...: "But of course...Trump can never fail, but can only be done in by the treachery of others."

Who made this claim?; 12/7/20, 6:36 PM
Anonymous said...: I think this is an exciting time. Look, everyone knows Democrats deceive and cheat. Go ahead and make your arguments, as lawyers are wont to do. I've been a reluctant Republican for too many years. I'm not a stupid, easily manipulated kid, so I cannot vote Democrat, but when I was a stupid, easily manipulated kid, I did vote Democrat. I get one other choice. I hate voting Republican.

Somewhere along the line we got stuck in this binary, that benefits the 'Parties'. Ever wonder what the job of the FEC is? Prevent 3rd Parties from getting a foothold. Ross Perot put the fear of God into the Republican Party, and Geo H W took on the task to destroy him.

Geo W called me a Xenophobe because I didn't want open borders. He called me a sexist, because I didn't think Harriet Miers was qualified for the Supreme Court.

This guy Trump ran as a Republican, but everyone knew he wasn't that. The first time he was called an -ist (racist, sexist, homophobist, Islamaphobist, on and on) he didn't curl up in a fetal position, and cry out...don't call me names...I'll give you whatever you want!

This guy was not a Republican. He was a breath of fresh air.

I think this is an exciting time. We've allowed a 24hr a day corruption cesspit to be our Capitol City. That is the face we present to the World. We have a chance to mitigate that. Can't end it..because of Human Nature, but we can roll it back.; 12/7/20, 7:48 PM
I'm Not Sure said...: "We've allowed a 24hr a day corruption cesspit to be our Capitol City."

I'm not sure what's more disappointing- that this is so, or that such a large number of US citizens don't recognize that this has happened.; 12/7/20, 8:06 PM
Narr said...: I'm Not Sure says, "I'm not sure what's more disappointing- [that DC is so corrupt], or that such a large number of US citizens don't recognize that this has happened."

I'm sure it's Door #2, and may be worse-- they not only don't see it, they think honest, stable government has been restored. It is after all what they're told by the MSDNC and Cesspit News Network.

Narr
Disappointing AND dangerous; 12/7/20, 8:37 PM
walter said...: The solution is to make it a state.
State motto on license plate: "The self-licking ice cream cone."; 12/7/20, 8:40 PM
mockturtle said...: Every department and bureau in DC should be moved to some flyover state. Corruption dispersed is probably less pernicious than when it is concentrated.; 12/7/20, 8:47 PM
I'm Not Sure said...: "Every department and bureau in DC should be moved to some flyover state."

Most of them should be eliminated.; 12/7/20, 9:27 PM
walter said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 12/7/20, 9:51 PM
Rusty said...: I'm Not Sure said...
"Every department and bureau in DC should be moved to some flyover state."

"Most of them should be eliminated."
"Then most of the usual suspects would need to learn how to code." That ain't gonna happen.; 12/8/20, 6:31 AM