Althouse: At the Sunday Night Cafe...

December 20, 2020

At the Sunday Night Cafe...

... you can write about whatever you want.

168 comments:

readering said...: The New York Jets won a football game against an NFL team! Hurray!; 12/20/20, 7:40 PM
Jersey Fled said...: My son in law Mike will be unhappy. He wanted the Jets to lose out so they would get the #1 pick.; 12/20/20, 7:45 PM
Birkel said...: Sportsball?
Who gives a crap about that stuff?; 12/20/20, 7:48 PM
mockturtle said...: The New York Jets won a football game against an NFL team! Hurray!

And it was the 9-5 Rams! This is good for the Seahawks who now lead the NFC West. And good for my Cards who still have a Wild Card shot after winning today.; 12/20/20, 7:50 PM
narciso said...: https://niccolo.substack.com/p/the-zrich-interviews-pascal-emmanuel; 12/20/20, 7:52 PM
mockturtle said...: Birkel asks: Who gives a crap about that stuff?

Obviously some of us.; 12/20/20, 7:52 PM
narciso said...: Bon appetit

https://amgreatness.com/2020/12/19/congratulations-national-review-you-got-your-wish/; 12/20/20, 7:53 PM
I Have Misplaced My Pants said...: Thanks for all the interesting links all the time, Daffodil.; 12/20/20, 7:55 PM
Matthew Heintz said...: Remarkable that anyone has any interest in any pro sport league after they all caved to lefty demands for social justice bullshit.; 12/20/20, 7:55 PM
mockturtle said...: I was musing today how strange it is that we are playing Animal Farm in 2020. The pigs are busy assuring the other animals that everything will be in their best interests.; 12/20/20, 7:55 PM
Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...: c'mon, man! "Virus-nado"** would have been a better title

trailer for "COVID-21", the movie

** or "Coron-nado"?

...either way, sure to be an enduring classic.; 12/20/20, 7:57 PM
Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...: I miss living in New York City.
Sometimes I miss it so much, I put urine in the humidifier.

*emmo; 12/20/20, 7:59 PM
I'm Not Sure said...: As COVID-19 cases skyrocketed before the Thanksgiving holiday weekend, Dr. Deborah Birx, coordinator of the White House coronavirus response, warned Americans to “be vigilant” and limit celebrations to “your immediate household.”

The day after Thanksgiving, she traveled to one of her vacation properties on Fenwick Island in Delaware. She was accompanied by three generations of her family from two households. Birx, her husband Paige Reffe, a daughter, son-in-law and two young grandchildren were present.

https://apnews.com/article/travel-pandemics-only-on-ap-delaware-thanksgiving-52810c22488fff7e6bb70746bdc9bc61?utm_medium=AP&utm_source=Twitter&utm_campaign=SocialFlow

It's almost as if these people don't think the virus is nearly as dangerous as they're anxious to convince *you* it is.; 12/20/20, 7:59 PM
Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...: Wee need giant flags with images of Hunter napping with his crack Pipe...

or perhaps giant screens looping Biden bragging about his Billion dollar blackmail of the Ukrainians. That would be impressive merchandise.; 12/20/20, 8:02 PM
Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...: emo!; 12/20/20, 8:03 PM
readering said...: Birkel pining for me to get back to writing about POTUS? Not taking the bait.

I believe it is un-American to hope your team loses so you can get a better draft pick. Besides, it's not like re-stocking a basketball roster.

And I actually want to see the Rams win their division. But not at the expense of the long-suffering boys from NJ, I mean, NY.; 12/20/20, 8:05 PM
Gahrie said...: The New York Jets won a football game against an NFL team! Hurray!

Someone check in on Rich Eisen.; 12/20/20, 8:09 PM
wildswan said...: We're in a new series - Lord of the Wrongs. Episode 1. Should the Good Duke acknowledge the usurper and attend his coronation? Wormtongue the Squish wants to be there taking orders for his livery stable but Heartland Jack urges caution. Duke Humphrey, he says, has been replaced in a cell-by-cell CRISPR technique which has changed him into The Wicked Stepmother while continuing to resemble the other men of the Squish lineage. "He will be issuing foul edicts before you leave the Great Hall of the Abbey," says Jack. "And your mountainy men will be confused by that." Tune in next week.; 12/20/20, 8:11 PM
Sydney said...: England is seeing a surge in coronavirus cases due to a mutation in the virus that makes it more contagious. The mutation is in the part of the RNA of the virus that codes for the spike protein. The same protein the mRNA vaccine codes for. England has been administering the vaccine for a few weeks now. Coincidence or adverse effect? How would we ever know?; 12/20/20, 8:12 PM
Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...: I'm sure the liars and frauds in the media will be honest.; 12/20/20, 8:13 PM
Joe Smith said...: Watching a show that turned into NBC Evening News when I was busy doing something else.

It was wall-to-wall Covid porn.

There were three reports that I saw with different field reporters; each wore a mask.

Each was standing in the middle of nowhere with nobody other than there crew around…you know, the people they drive in the vans with.

Then footage of a hospital in California that looked like outtakes from the movie ‘MASH.’

Jesus, they are all invested in pushing the biggest hoax in history.

Pure. Fucking.Theater.

Anything to push the Dem agenda and increase the power of the state.

Fuck the media.; 12/20/20, 8:23 PM
wildswan said...: Blogger narciso said...

Bon appetit
https://amgreatness.com/2020/12/19/congratulations-national-review-you-got-your-wish/

Sugar Crush; 12/20/20, 8:26 PM
narciso said...: This is after theyve locked down and thrownaway the key; 12/20/20, 8:27 PM
David Duffy said...: Perhaps the virus will mutate and kill all humans. We become extinct. Will any of the remaining animals or bacteria evolve to consciousness? If they do, I wonder what they will make of our artifacts.; 12/20/20, 8:28 PM
Lawrence Person said...: Gun news roundup.; 12/20/20, 8:33 PM
narciso said...: Or maybe it will turn us all into zonbies except for will smith; 12/20/20, 8:33 PM
Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...: What?!? No mention in the Althouse Fashion section of POTUS & FLOTUS**
"deep in the heart of tux's" in the White House Christmas photo?

...and if a rolling ball travels down a giant xylophone in the woods of Kyushu, Japan and there's no one there to hear it--

...does it still play Bach?

**Confucius say: "Better to have a feminine woman dress like a man, than a manly woman dress feminine"; 12/20/20, 8:35 PM
wildswan said...: I sympathize with the efforts being made in ICUs to handle the rising numbers of patients who have gone on from covid to SARS. But I don't understand why more aren't copying the protocols in place at Froedtert Hospital in Milwaukee. The work done there has given this state the lowest case-to-death ratio in the country. Moreover, Froedtert has pioneered creative ways of reducing ICU crush including discharging patients with a packet of goodies that help them monitor their own condition such as oxymeters so that they can be safely discharged. But Froedtert Hospital's good work is being disregarded and the NYC hospitals (and Andrew Cuomo) whose claim to fame is the highest case-to-death ratio are being lauded. Probably the New York protocols will be adopted by the country unless Trump wins the Pennsylvania case. If he doesn't, if we get Flapkack, we'll find Crackfoot sincerely believes that New York is the center of the knowledge universe and he will make their deadly protocols mandatory. Call Froedtert and save your own community, at least.; 12/20/20, 8:43 PM
Birkel said...: mockturtle:
When the League and it's players announced that they hate you, did you pretend they didn't?
Why would you frequent a business that announces it holds you in disdain?

When people say they hate you, believe them.; 12/20/20, 8:44 PM
mockturtle said...: Birkel, I don't care if they hate me or not. I enjoy watching football. If you don't, then don't watch. MYOB.; 12/20/20, 8:48 PM
J. Farmer said...: Senators spar over whether second $1,200 stimulus checks are necessary

That the federal government hasn't been sending Americans $1,000 checks each month since April is a fucking disgrace. That the Republican Party's deficit hawkishness is utterly cynical makes it all the more disgusting.

As usual, when it comes to reductions to top marginal tax rates, DoD boondoggles, and military adventurism, the Republican Party is Mr. Blank Check. For programs that provide meaningful help to ordinary Americans and working families, they pose as the serious people in the room.

The Republican Party is concerned about the "deficit" mainly to the degree it can be used as a cudgel against "tax and spend" Democrats. It was a decade ago that the cudgel was wielded against Obama's economic stimulus. Reaganite fossils were dusted off to provide boilerplate criticisms. Pundits like Niall Ferguson and Amity Shlaes were providing intellectual coverage for the obstructionism while getting pretty much everything wrong.

The Tea Party was spurred on by the criticisms of Obama's fiscal policy, and the Republican Party spent eight years decrying his deficits and contributions to the debt. Remember when raising the "debt ceiling" was a crisis? Unsurprisingly, when Trump replaced Obama, Republican complaints about debt and deficits went from a roar to a whimper. On top of that, Trump's huge deficits were incurred during a time of full employment. And right on cue, given the opportunity to get economic relief to Americans, Republicans are going to decide once again to pretend to give a shit about spending.

Republicans cannot be conservative populists and economic libertarians. we need the Republican Party to look more like Josh Hawley and less like Rand Paul.; 12/20/20, 8:48 PM
narciso said...: Yes he didnt cut social security nor medicare which is the largest line item in the budget (not constitutionally mandated); 12/20/20, 8:52 PM
narciso said...: They spent 4 billion dollars and most of the people that didnt need the money got it and vice versa.; 12/20/20, 8:56 PM
narciso said...: Yes it was a trillion dollars wasted for little purpose. On 'shovel ready jobs'; 12/20/20, 9:01 PM
steve uhr said...: If the pack wins against the Titans next week they can take it easy the following week, followed by the bye week. Win twice at home in the cold and on to the SB.; 12/20/20, 9:05 PM
steve uhr said...: General Flynn thinks Trump should declare martial law and have the military hold a redo election in the swing states. I don’t want to be a stickler for fairness — after all, we just stole the election— but it doesn’t seem appropriate to only do it over in states Trump lost.; 12/20/20, 9:12 PM
mockturtle said...: Steve, do you think the Packers can beat KC?; 12/20/20, 9:13 PM
steve uhr said...: Why not. They did in Super Bowl 1; 12/20/20, 9:18 PM
mockturtle said...: I must say they look pretty good this year.; 12/20/20, 9:21 PM
narciso said...: https://mobile.twitter.com/tracybeanz/status/1340744626035109894; 12/20/20, 9:25 PM
chuck said...: Imagine there was no asymptomatic spread.; 12/20/20, 9:28 PM
narciso said...: From the latinx thread

https://airandspace.si.edu/support/wall-of-honor/florence-lowe-pancho-barnes; 12/20/20, 9:29 PM
Breezy said...: Why can these NFL guys play football for 4 quarters but we can’t have indoor dining?; 12/20/20, 9:31 PM
Lem Vibe Bandit said...: I'm going on a limb and predict that it will be up to The Chief Justice fear of a riotous horizon, if the electoral college is to survive.

The very thing that Madison feared (link) threatens to come to pass, and we may have the learned chief to thank.

The man who was supposed to be so astute, folds under pressure time and time again.

Who will survive the first four years of Joe Biden; The electoral college or Joe Biden?; 12/20/20, 9:33 PM
narciso said...: Will he deep it a tax?; 12/20/20, 9:36 PM
D. said...: When I am in a "mask" store these days I take off my mask to sneeze and cough.; 12/20/20, 9:42 PM
Mr Wibble said...: General Flynn thinks Trump should declare martial law and have the military hold a redo election in the swing states. I don’t want to be a stickler for fairness — after all, we just stole the election— but it doesn’t seem appropriate to only do it over in states Trump lost.

There's no way to do a redo election that doesn't end up a complete clusterfuck, most likely a complete violent clusterfuck.; 12/20/20, 9:47 PM
narciso said...: But we cant have nice things

https://reformclub.blogspot.com/2020/12/a-decent-respect.html?m=1; 12/20/20, 9:49 PM
Mr Wibble said...: I'm going on a limb and predict that it will be up to The Chief Justice fear of a riotous horizon, if the electoral college is to survive.

The very thing that Madison feared (link) threatens to come to pass, and we may have the learned chief to thank.

The man who was supposed to be so astute, folds under pressure time and time again.

Who will survive the first four years of Joe Biden; The electoral college or Joe Biden?

They'll tell themselves that they're "protecting the institutions" even as they burn them to the ground. That said, I don't expect Biden to make it a year, let alone four. Harris will assume the presidency. I do think that a lot of bad actors are going to take advantage of the next four years, both here and abroad.; 12/20/20, 9:49 PM
Gahrie said...: That said, I don't expect Biden to make it a year, let alone four.

I don't either. But unless the corruption probe actually blows up, they'll do a "Wilson" if possible for two years so Harris can run twice on her own.; 12/20/20, 9:52 PM
Inga said...: There was a discussion about how the vaccine worked a few days ago and some claimed it worked by altering DNA, well turns out, it doesn’t. So whoever said it doesn’t was right. Get your vaccine or don’t, but don’t expect herd immunity until about 70% have been either infected or immunized. I’ll take the immunization as I have some conditions that would make me getting Covid a very bad idea. As for the rest of you, your choice.

"I found out that the vaccine is actually quite brilliant work. It doesn't alter dna whatsoever which was my fear...it can't even enter into your dna. Basically it's a degradable piece of mRNA that goes into the cell plasma and teaches it how to manufacture a specific protein. Once it's job is done it degrades and it is eliminated from the body"

—————————————
“Facts about COVID-19 mRNA Vaccines
They cannot give someone COVID-19.

mRNA vaccines do not use the live virus that causes COVID-19.
They do not affect or interact with our DNA in any way.

mRNA never enters the nucleus of the cell, which is where our DNA (genetic material) is kept.
The cell breaks down and gets rid of the mRNA soon after it is finished using the instructions.”

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/different-vaccines/mrna.html; 12/20/20, 9:55 PM
mockturtle said...: narciso: Pancho Barnes was one of my all-time favorite people. Gutsy, capable and a real character.; 12/20/20, 9:56 PM
Gahrie said...: General Flynn thinks Trump should declare martial law and have the military hold a redo election in the swing states. I don’t want to be a stickler for fairness — after all, we just stole the election— but it doesn’t seem appropriate to only do it over in states Trump lost.

There's no way to do a redo election that doesn't end up a complete clusterfuck, most likely a complete violent clusterfuck.

At this point, the best possible outcome would be to follow the 1876 precedent, and make a new corrupt bargain. This time the Democrats get the presidency, and Republicans get true, effective electoral reform:

1) Voter rolls purged every twenty years, everyone has to reregister. PSAs reminding people.

2) All voting done in person, on election day. Paper ballots, bubble in scantrons. (We all used them in school) Show picture ID before voting, dip finger in indelible ink after voting.

3) Only military and diplomats serving overseas get absentee ballots. These must be notarized.

4) All ballots counted in public, with media and observers present, including live streaming internet.; 12/20/20, 9:58 PM
Inga said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 12/20/20, 10:01 PM
narciso said...: Ot the mandalorian pulled off a decent twist ending for season 2 (idont have disneyplus for reasons); 12/20/20, 10:04 PM
Michael K said...: Blogger steve uhr said...
General Flynn thinks Trump should declare martial law and have the military hold a redo election in the swing states

I assume you learned this from your psychiatrist?; 12/20/20, 10:05 PM
J. Farmer said...: @narciso:

Yes it was a trillion dollars wasted for little purpose. On 'shovel ready jobs'

Most of the cost of the stimulus came from tax cuts for individuals and families and fiscal aid to state and local governments. While infrastructure spending is a good thing, it was stupid to push it as stimulus through "shovel-ready" projects. There's too much time lag between providing the funding and when the actual projects get started. Direct payments are a better option.; 12/20/20, 10:07 PM
Inga said...: I wish I was a fly on the head of someone in that Oval Office meeting between Michael “Q” Flynn and the Kraken, Trump, Mark Meadows, Rudy and Cippolone. I heard there was a lot of yelling.; 12/20/20, 10:07 PM
I'm Not Sure said...: "1) Voter rolls purged every twenty years, everyone has to reregister. PSAs reminding people."

The most popular driver's license renewal period among the various states is four years, and people seem to manage that just fine.

Just sayin'.; 12/20/20, 10:09 PM
Rt41Rebel said...: "But unless the corruption probe actually blows up, they'll do a "Wilson" if possible for two years so Harris can run twice on her own."

Expecting Kameltoe to be elected once and then reelected again is a foolish strategy. But then again, Dems have now proven that they can fraud anyone into any office that they want.; 12/20/20, 10:10 PM
narciso said...: Which bridge or road did theybuild pr even repare anywhere in the country,; 12/20/20, 10:11 PM
FullMoon said...: “Betrayed From Within”: Patrick Byrne Blasts White House Staff After Attending Election Meeting With President Trump, Sydney Powell and Gen. Flynn; 12/20/20, 10:17 PM
Mr Wibble said...: At this point, the best possible outcome would be to follow the 1876 precedent, and make a new corrupt bargain. This time the Democrats get the presidency, and Republicans get true, effective electoral reform:

1) Voter rolls purged every twenty years, everyone has to reregister. PSAs reminding people.

2) All voting done in person, on election day. Paper ballots, bubble in scantrons. (We all used them in school) Show picture ID before voting, dip finger in indelible ink after voting.

3) Only military and diplomats serving overseas get absentee ballots. These must be notarized.

4) All ballots counted in public, with media and observers present, including live streaming internet.

Nice in theory, but in practice it wouldn't last beyond the handshake. As soon as possible the left would sue to prevent voter rolls from being purged. They'd start making exceptions and reasons why we need to reintroduce mail-in voting. And they'll continue to count ballots in secret. Why? Because they can. Because the courts aren't going to stop it, and legislatures are too cowardly to step in.; 12/20/20, 10:19 PM
J. Farmer said...: Yes he didnt cut social security nor medicare which is the largest line item in the budget (not constitutionally mandated)

And supported tax cuts and big increases in military spending. But mind you, my complaint is not really about Trump's spending. It's about the cynical, opportunistic way concern about the deficit is used.; 12/20/20, 10:20 PM
FullMoon said...: General Flynn thinks Trump should declare martial law and have the military hold a redo election in the swing states.

LOL! If Howard posted that, we would know he was trolling. When Steve Uhr or Inga posts it, we know they believe it.; 12/20/20, 10:22 PM
Darkisland said...: I can't find the link now but WHO has issued a statement about overclocking of the Kung Flu tests.

I've mentioned before that running extra amplification cycle will cause anything or anyone to show a positive result even if there is no virus present. Even if there has never been any virus present.

This is why we have so many asymptomatic people who test positive.

Fauci says no more than 35 cycles. Others say no more than 30 or even 25 cycles.

Now, Friday I think, the WHO has found that this is goiing on and they are as shocked, SHOCKED!!!!, as that inspector in Casablanc to find that over amplification is going one. They are saying it should be dialed back.

I predicted this here last month or even earlier. That when the vaccine came along the testing would be dialed back. Dialing it back would result in a much smaller positive rate and Hey! Presto! That vaccine really works miracles, doesn't it?

All due to Dr Joe Biden holding President Trump's feet to the fire over the vaccine. You just know we would never have gotten it this quickly if Dr Joe (you know he is married to a doctor, don't you? And father of another)had not been relentless and merciless in his campaigning.

But, if not enough people show up to take their vaccine, they will, unannounced, dial up the cycles again and we will get all the kung flue porn about all the positives, all the people in ICUs and so on.

John Henry; 12/20/20, 10:23 PM
Mr Wibble said...: Expecting Kameltoe to be elected once and then reelected again is a foolish strategy. But then again, Dems have now proven that they can fraud anyone into any office that they want.

Not quite. It worked this time because a lot of GOP leadership at the state level want Trump gone. They either have a fantasy that once he's out of power things will go back to the way they were before 2016, or they are corrupt scumbags who don't want anyone looking too closely at how the elections were run. Perhaps both. The left also benefited from the fact that many on the GOP side are too frightened of "damaging our institutions" by fighting back to actually do anything. They want to keep the status quo because they benefit from it. What they don't understand is that things are not going back to the way they were.; 12/20/20, 10:23 PM
Tyrone Slothrop said...: Sam Darnold played at San Clemente High, my alma mater. He was a phenomenal prep quarterback who took us to a state championship. It makes me sad to see him floundering with a lousy Jets team. We need him back on the left coast. Sunshine, surf and California girls would turn him around, I'm sure.; 12/20/20, 10:30 PM
Rt41Rebel said...: I don't share your optimism, Mr Wibble, although I'd like to. The only optimism I have is for extreme protest and violence on Jan 6. I hope it pans out.; 12/20/20, 10:32 PM
Mr Wibble said...: I don't share your optimism, Mr Wibble, although I'd like to. The only optimism I have is for extreme protest and violence on Jan 6. I hope it pans out.

My "optimism" is that incompetence and corruption eventually result in collapse. It will be ugly in the meanwhile. I would not be surprised if Biden/Harris drag us into a major war due to the mismanagement and incompetence of their administration. Certainly an ugly recession is coming.; 12/20/20, 10:34 PM
Michael K said...: Blogger Tyrone Slothrop said...
Sam Darnold played at San Clemente High, my alma mater. He was a phenomenal prep quarterback who took us to a state championship. It makes me sad to see him floundering with a lousy Jets team.

Carson Palmer, who went to high school with my daughter, was getting hurt with the limp noodle O line at Cincinnati. He told the owner he wanted to be traded. The owner said no. Palmer said "I've got $25 million in the bank. Trade me or I will retire." They traded him.; 12/20/20, 10:35 PM
mockturtle said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 12/20/20, 10:36 PM
Michael K said...: my complaint is not really about Trump's spending. It's about the cynical, opportunistic way concern about the deficit is used.

"Daddy are we there yet?" The enemy of the good is the perfect. You never acknowledge the barriers to Trump accomplishing anything.; 12/20/20, 10:38 PM
mockturtle said...: There is a civil war, of some form, on the horizon.; 12/20/20, 10:38 PM
J. Farmer said...: @narciso:

Which bridge or road did theybuild pr even repare anywhere in the country,

"More than 13,000 road and bridge projects across the country have resulted in over 42,000 miles of improved road and almost 2,700 rebuilt or strengthened bridges. Recovery Act-related transit investments constructed or rehabilitated 850 new facilities and provided nearly 12,000 new buses and nearly 700 new rail cars. Additionally, about 800 airport improvement projects addressing needed repairs to runways, airport facilities, and air traffic towers were completed." -DOT's American Recovery and Reinvestment Act Final Report

On why transportation spending was not good as stimulus spending: Transportation Infrastructure Investment as Economic Stimulus: Lessons from the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009; 12/20/20, 10:38 PM
Michael K said...: Blogger Inga said...
I wish I was a fly on the head of someone

Me, too.; 12/20/20, 10:39 PM
J. Farmer said...: @Michael K:

"Daddy are we there yet?" The enemy of the good is the perfect. You never acknowledge the barriers to Trump accomplishing anything.

Did you read the line of mine you quoted? The part where I said, "my complaint is not really about Trump's spending">; 12/20/20, 10:41 PM
Michael K said...: The 2009 "Stimulus Act" was payoff for every leftist outfit in the country. Nobody expected any infrastructure. "Burley Men" were specifically excluded.; 12/20/20, 10:41 PM
Darkisland said...: If you do get the kung flu vaccine and have any side effects, don't worry about suing pfizer.

You can't. By federal law vaccine manufacturers are exempt from product liability laws.

Well, that's OK because there is a government fund to compensate people with problems from vaccines.

Approved vaccines, at least. The Pfizer and Moderna vaccines have not been "approved". They have been "released" but only for emergency use.

They may not be covered by the govt vaccine fund either.

John Henry; 12/20/20, 10:42 PM
Mark said...: Comrade Farmer wants a system where the state provides for your every need, all of us dependents of the government.; 12/20/20, 10:52 PM
narciso said...: You know when tyson doesnt stick his foot in his mouth he points in interesting direction

https://www.americahousekyiv.org/ah-blog/2019/10/23/yuriy-kondratyuk-a-ukrainian-mathematician-ahead-of-his-time; 12/20/20, 10:56 PM
Inga said...: “Blogger Inga said...
I wish I was a fly on the head of someone

Me, too.”

Oh? You want to be a fly on someone’s head too?; 12/20/20, 10:57 PM
Mike of Snoqualmie said...: Snow is forecast for low land Puget Sound tomorrow, our first of the season, coming on the first day of winter. Our property outside of Snoqualmie could get 4-in, if the models are right. That's a very big if, since the temperatures are forecast to be in the mid to upper 30s. We are having a Public Notice sign put up tomorrow for our building permit. We can actually see the end of the tunnel on the permit with construction starting in the spring (fingers crossed!).

The threat of flooding of the Snoqualmie River has disappeared. Early forecasts had the river at Phase 3 flood stage (>20,000 cfs), now it won't break 8,000 cfs.; 12/20/20, 10:59 PM
Rt41Rebel said...: I'd rather my head be in the fly of someone, assuming they met certain gender and hygiene prerequisites.; 12/20/20, 11:02 PM
Darkisland said...: Now that Moderna can go ahead and produce their vaccine, I wonder who is actually going to make it?

Moderna does not seem to have any manufacturing capability at all.

So will they build some?

Not long ago I spent time on a packaging line that will make 600 pre-filled syringes per minute. It doesn't label, carton or otherwise pack the finished syringes. It Doesn't make the syringes themselves, those are purchased. It doesn't make the medicine that goes in the syringe. That is made elsewhere in the plant. All it does is assemble and fill the syringe.

That line, one humungus machine with multiple functions, cost $26 million when it was ordered 5 years ago. They are about a year away from making actual product.

Modifying the existing building probably cost that again.

Then they have have the people installing, commissioning, validating and training on the machine for about 3 years now. And outsiders like me, consultants and others.

And all the regulatory issues and so on.

Total project cost is in the $75-100mm range I'd bet.

(4-5 years ago I worked with another company who did something like this, including building a new building. After spending several hundred million, the product was not approved by FDA. I got involved when they were looking at running another product in it. I believe it is still idle)

Assuming that Moderna could find the money and the talent (perhaps even harder than finding the money), they can't afford to wait 6 years to get into production.

So they contract out to someone with spare capacity. The problem is that there are not that many companies with any spare capacity, especially not for a specialized product like a vaccine.

So where will it be made?

John Henry; 12/20/20, 11:02 PM
J. Farmer said...: The 2009 "Stimulus Act" was payoff for every leftist outfit in the country. Nobody expected any infrastructure. "Burley Men" were specifically excluded.

The single largest component of the stimulus bill, about $300 billion, was in the form of tax cuts and reductions.; 12/20/20, 11:03 PM
Darkisland said...: Someone asked the other night where the Pfizer vaccine was made.

Kalamazoo Michigan. (Where I don't got a gal)

At what used to be the Upjohn facility.

John Henry; 12/20/20, 11:05 PM
narciso said...: That leaves twice as much for other expendititures where did it go?; 12/20/20, 11:06 PM
J. Farmer said...: @Mark:

Comrade Farmer wants a system where the state provides for your every need, all of us dependents of the government.

Try using your brain, Mark, instead of relying on caricatures and clichés. What I want is a system that provides a minimum level of material security to its citizens. Not very different from a system advocated by that well-known communist Thomas Paine in his pamphlet Agrarian Justice.; 12/20/20, 11:15 PM
Darkisland said...: For those interested, this is a video of a similar line.

In production this type of line is operated at a level of aseptic sterility that would make a top notch hospital operating room look like a Haitian outhouse.

Not installed in the video but all access to the machine, after it has been sterilized for a production run, is via glove ports in the Lexan enclosure. These are a MAJOR pain in the ass to work with.

And not just lab coats, but sterile scrubs, then sterile booties, coveralls, hood face covering over that.

Very few people outside the industry have any idea what goes on in making pharmaceuticals in the US. Especially in aseptic processing.

Much laxer in the EU.

John Henry

John Henry; 12/20/20, 11:15 PM
Inga said...: Too late.

‘‘I’m Haunted by What I Did’ as a Lawyer in the Trump Justice Department
No matter our intentions, lawyers like me were complicit. We owe the country our honesty about what we saw — and should do in the future.

By Erica Newland

“In giving voice to those trying to destroy the rule of law and dignifying their efforts with our talents and even our basic competence, we enabled that destruction. Were we doing enough good elsewhere to counterbalance the harm we facilitated, the way a public health official might accommodate the president on the margins to push forward on vaccine development? No.

No matter our intentions, we were complicit. We collectively perpetuated an anti-democratic leader by conforming to his assault on reality. We may have been victims of the system, but we were also its instruments. No matter how much any one of us pushed back from within, we did so as members of a professional class of government lawyers who enabled an assault on our democracy — an assault that nearly ended it.

We owe the country our honesty about that and about what we saw. We owe apologies. I offer mine here.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/20/opinion/trump-justice-department-lawyer.html; 12/20/20, 11:16 PM
J. Farmer said...: @narciso:

That leaves twice as much for other expendititures where did it go?

The next biggest component was fiscal assistance to state and local governments, primarily for healthcare and education spending.; 12/20/20, 11:20 PM
narciso said...: https://www.justsecurity.org/author/newlanderica/; 12/20/20, 11:20 PM
narciso said...: So someone who goes to work for the same soros appendage that waged unrelentong war on the administration tell me another one.; 12/20/20, 11:22 PM
Darkisland said...: Blogger J. Farmer said...

The single largest component of the stimulus bill, about $300 billion, was in the form of tax cuts and reductions.

I think you mean tax RATE, cuts, not tax cuts.

A lot of people saw their taxes go up even as the rate went down. They were making so much more money that even at the lower rates they paid more in tax. Since they had more in their pockets, that was OK.

And some people who had never paid income taxes, because they had never worked, started paying taxes.

Then there were all the wealthy who suddenly lost their federal tax deductions on property taxes and state income taxes (SALT) who wound up paying more out of pocket.

Every time we've had a major tax RATE cut for the past 100 years(Coolidge, Kennedy, Reagan, Trump) we have had a major tax REVENUE increase due to expanded economic activity.

Yeah, tell us again how PDJT cut taxes.

John Henry; 12/20/20, 11:24 PM
Darkisland said...: Link to the aseptic vial filling line

https://youtu.be/6JfN6RezDkA

John Henry; 12/20/20, 11:25 PM
Joe Smith said...: "But mind you, my complaint is not really about Trump's spending."

You're smarter than that.

Trump can't spend a dime.

Yes, he can sign or veto a bill, but as you know, a lot of pork is mixed in with necessary spending.; 12/20/20, 11:27 PM
J. Farmer said...: @Darkisland:

Yeah, tell us again how PDJT cut taxes.

I was referring to the provisions of the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009.; 12/20/20, 11:32 PM
J. Farmer said...: @Joe Smith:

Yes, he can sign or veto a bill, but as you know, a lot of pork is mixed in with necessary spending.

I'll happily concede that distinction, but my point still stands. The GOP pilloried Obama for deficit spending and adding to the national debt but made no such criticism of Trump for deficit spending and adding to the national debt.; 12/20/20, 11:37 PM
Mutaman said...: "But then again, Dems have now proven that they can fraud anyone into any office that they want."

And the Know Nothings have now proven that they're too incompetent to prove it.; 12/20/20, 11:43 PM
Mark said...: What I want is a system that provides a minimum level of material security to its citizens.

Yes, Comrade, I got that. Hence the honorific.; 12/20/20, 11:45 PM
narciso said...: Companero farmer te saludo; 12/20/20, 11:46 PM
narciso said...: Something they found in those infected computers

https://www.cfr.org/cyber-operations/ocean-lotus; 12/20/20, 11:56 PM
J. Farmer said...: @Mark:

Yes, Comrade, I got that. Hence the honorific.

Then you should know why describing that as "a system where the state provides for your every need, all of us dependents of the government" is horseshit.

"The assurance of a certain minimum income for everyone, or a sort of floor below which nobody need fall even when he is unable to provide for himself, appears not only to be a wholly legitimate protection against a risk common to all, but a necessary part of the Great Society in which the individual no longer has specific claims on the members of the particular small group into which he was born." -Comrade Friedrich von Hayek; 12/21/20, 12:11 AM
Joe Smith said...: "I'll happily concede that distinction..."

The Republicans are spending whores as well...on that we can agree...; 12/21/20, 12:20 AM
Mark said...: So other people had communist leanings too. What's your point??; 12/21/20, 12:51 AM
J. Farmer said...: The Republicans are spending whores as well...on that we can agree...

Spending whore and tax-cutting whores, a particularly slutty combination. Similar to how they're for small government and global military hegemony. Or traditionalism and global liberalization. There are a lot of ideological tensions within the GOP, but their factions are mostly held together by antipathy towards the cultural left, which they associate with a kind of coastal urban elitism. Not unlike how the Democratic factions are held together by antipathy towards the cultural right, which they associate with a kind of middle-American rural provincialism.; 12/21/20, 12:51 AM
narciso said...: Why did von mises (and hayek) object to wagner and mollers political economy?; 12/21/20, 12:55 AM
J. Farmer said...: @Mark:

So other people had communist leanings too. What's your point??

That if the views pf Thomas Paine and Friedrich Hayek can be described as "communist leanings," then the phrase has no meaning. If you wish to oppose the argument, you're going to have to understand the argument. Throwing out meaningless labels will not suffice. Try to rely more on your reasoning faculties and less on tribal partisanship.; 12/21/20, 1:03 AM
J. Farmer said...: Why did von mises (and hayek) object to wagner and mollers political economy?

I give up. Why?; 12/21/20, 1:10 AM
Rt41Rebel said...: "And the Know Nothings have now proven that they're too incompetent to prove it."

I wouldn't call it that, but your predictable response and approval of a serious constitutional breach is exactly why I am hoping for unprecedented violence on January 6. The more of you dead the better. The more shit cities burned to the ground the better.; 12/21/20, 1:27 AM
grackle said...: The election was so close
I fear to think much of it
Its memory appears gross
Like seeing footprints in shit; 12/21/20, 1:46 AM
Kai Akker said...: DJIA futures down -500 at 6 a.m. ET.

It may not sound like it, but it could still be a good day for selling stock.; 12/21/20, 5:16 AM
Gahrie said...: "The assurance of a certain minimum income for everyone, or a sort of floor below which nobody need fall even when he is unable to provide for himself, appears not only to be a wholly legitimate protection against a risk common to all, but a necessary part of the Great Society in which the individual no longer has specific claims on the members of the particular small group into which he was born."

How did Bread and Circuses work out for Rome?; 12/21/20, 5:24 AM
Rusty said...: Michael K said...
"The 2009 "Stimulus Act" was payoff for every leftist outfit in the country. Nobody expected any infrastructure. "Burley Men" were specifically excluded."
The places the benefitted the most were in heavily democrat areas. Like the bailout of the auto workers union those dealerships that leaned republican weren't offered funds. Most consequently closed down. Unionized shops were bailed out. Saturn, which was not a member of the UAW, even though highly profitable to GM was closed. The Penske corporation wanted to buy the Saturn brand, but was refused. I thought at the time that was particularly spiteful. It was then I realized just what sort of man president Obama was. 500 million was wasted on a company whos owners were big democrat donors, I don't think that Solindra(?) ever intended to make solar panels. I wonder how much of that was kicked back to the DNC and the Obama campaign.; 12/21/20, 5:32 AM
Humperdink said...: Now this is a great Christmas/boxing story:

https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2020/12/a-christmas-story.php; 12/21/20, 5:36 AM
Kai Akker said...: ---That the federal government hasn't been sending Americans $1,000 checks each month since April is a fucking disgrace. That the Republican Party's deficit hawkishness is utterly cynical makes it all the more disgusting. [J Farmer]

Good one. Such deep sarcasm! Just had to see that up here one more time.

The problem with the cumulative deficit, which now rivals our WWII extreme, is that we kept letting it build up when times were good. We just couldn't stop giving ourselves more government services but we wouldn't pay for them. At its worst, I think it was $2 of govt spending for every $1 of taxes. Most of the years since 2010 have been $4 of spending for every $3 of taxes raised.

Hey, why not? Why be so conservative about it?; 12/21/20, 6:14 AM
Kevin said...: Why did von mises (and hayek) object to wagner and mollers political economy?

To get to the other side.; 12/21/20, 6:15 AM
Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...: Inga- that NYT(D) article is short on substance, filled with empty bromides.

Trump was anti-reality! Trump was anti-democratic! Assault on democracy!

BTW - we do not live is a democracy - The United States is a Constitutional Republic with Democratic institutions. Pure democracy is tyranny's little brother.

Just another insider democrat hack unhappy that Hillary/ her team lost - with an NYT platform to rant.
Anyone at the NYT going to bother with Biden's corruption? Nope. Never. Not after they were told to never ever ever post anything like this ever again.; 12/21/20, 6:44 AM
Mark said...: You miss the point and have been deflecting, Farmer. Intentionally, no doubt.

Nobody fucking cares about the labels. I and they care about the actual policy of a state-provided minimum income and needs that you are advocating, which is to reduce people to dependents of all-powerful paternalistic government, which everywhere it has already been advocated and tried -- communist nations -- has been a disaster and destructive of liberty. Drag as many other people into this as you want -- which you did, I did not, as if I am obligated to bow down to them -- but the system you want is evil and has done great evil.; 12/21/20, 6:50 AM
Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...: Rusty - I remember that.
Obama is an evil man.; 12/21/20, 6:56 AM
Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...: Obama's green energy deals were all fake... wasted money - made rich leftist insiders wealthy

That's what the left just cheated their way back to.; 12/21/20, 6:58 AM
Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...: Chi Com virus will deliver State Ownership over many lives. Democracy!; 12/21/20, 7:22 AM
Birkel said...: mockturtle,
It's the internet and I get to express the opinions I want to express.

When people declare their hatred of me, I believe them.
And then I can try diligently never to give them a dime.; 12/21/20, 7:41 AM
Rusty said...: Obama saw himself as a great man. Sitting at the crossroads of history. Unfortunately for the rest of us he was a mediocre man with a poor sense of direction.; 12/21/20, 7:43 AM
J. Farmer said...: @Mark:

Nobody fucking cares about the labels...communist nations

Please explain how a "state-provided minimum income" is communism. How does a "state-provided minimum income...reduce people to dependents of all-powerful paternalistic government"? How is a system with private ownership of the means of production, for-profit enterprises, and capital accumulation communist? You miss the point that your comparison to past Marxist-Leninst states like the Soviet Union and Maoist China makes no sense.; 12/21/20, 8:19 AM
320Busdriver said...: Blogger Kai Akker said...
DJIA futures down -500 at 6 a.m. ET.

It may not sound like it, but it could still be a good day for selling stock.

I’ll be on the other side....; 12/21/20, 8:20 AM
Josephbleau said...: The good thing about a state provided min income is that it lets folks openly buy drugs and hookers with the money, harder to do with an EBT card. It also lets people stop having babies to get government cash.; 12/21/20, 8:32 AM
tcrosse said...: Obama saw himself as a great man. Sitting at the crossroads of history.

People told him he was. Would they lie?; 12/21/20, 8:32 AM
wildswan said...: Something to watch out for: now that essential workers have moved up in the line to get the vaccine we might see a lot of the present grocery workers fired and replaced by ?the boss's relatives? ?connected leftys? ?people paying bribes? Or am I too cynical?; 12/21/20, 8:34 AM
Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...: J Farmer.

When the state provides citizens with money for nothing - that is classic socialism.
Economists of all stripes agree - there are negative consequences to that.

Manufacturing dependency kills the spirit and makes the state powerful. not a good combination.

Vilification of private business and private ownership of property - is classic communist propaganda.; 12/21/20, 8:35 AM
J. Farmer said...: @Gahrie:

How did Bread and Circuses work out for Rome?

When Juvenal made that critique of the Roman populace, Rome still had over 1300 years to go. I'll take that.; 12/21/20, 8:38 AM
J. Farmer said...: @BidenFamilyTaxPayerFundedCrackPipe:

When the state provides citizens with money for nothing - that is classic socialism.

No, it isn't. Classis socialism is social ownership of the means of production and labor-managed enterprises.

Manufacturing dependency kills the spirit and makes the state powerful. not a good combination.

We've had neoliberalism for 40 years. How's that worked out for the spirit of the American working class? Is it your contention that the problem with the white working class is they're too dependent?; 12/21/20, 8:59 AM
Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...: Farmer said:
"Classis socialism is social ownership of the means of production and labor-managed enterprises. "

LOL - are you kidding?

Your definitions are off, Farmer.

The America working class is just fine if the state can manage to keep over-bearing regulations and punitive taxes at a minimum.; 12/21/20, 9:08 AM
mockturtle said...: Will Althouse post the news that Virginia will remove the statue of General Robert E. Lee from the U.S. Capitol's National Statuary Hall Collection and replace it with one of some obscure civil rights worker? There is nothing about Lee to deserve this act of disrespect. But it's all about deleting history and replacing it with one of the Left's design. This is a very sad day for America.; 12/21/20, 9:11 AM
Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...: the leftwing woke mob hath won.; 12/21/20, 9:14 AM
Michael K said...: The GOP pilloried Obama for deficit spending and adding to the national debt but made no such criticism of Trump for deficit spending and adding to the national debt.

Arguing with you is a fruitless exercise as you are fixed in your opinions and immune to new information but there was a slight difference between Obama spending and Trump spending. A virus epidemic and national hysteria fed by the Media which no longer functions as information. TARP was bad enough but the "stimulus" by Obama and Pelosi was open vote buying.; 12/21/20, 9:16 AM
Birkel said...: The disrespect is aimed at everything that is not patently of the Left.
After a while, the disrespect will be aimed at everything not Leftist Collectivist.
Then it will be aimed at everything and everybody not inside the inner circle.
And finally, it will be directed at everything and everybody who is not The Big Man.

That history follows if the Left consolidates it's power.
Always.
Everywhere.; 12/21/20, 9:19 AM
Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...: Both parties explode the debt. You won't get an argument from me on that.

The real hypocrisy is who cares about it and when.

With Wuhan Chi Com get-Trump-out-of-office Flu - the explosion of the debt that's coming will make the current debt seem manageable.; 12/21/20, 9:22 AM
Joe Smith said...: "Spending whore and tax-cutting whores, a particularly slutty combination."

I agree with the tax cutting...I am paying more than 50%.

Cut spending and tax cuts are not an issue.

The 'rich' (apparently me) use almost zero services for what we are paying (food stamps, police, schools, etc.

I believe everyone should have skin in the game....even the guy living under a bridge.

Even if that guy pays only $100, he should know he is part of it, especially if his vote to raise my taxes cancels out my vote.

He doesn't vote, you say? Ballot harvesting means that he does...; 12/21/20, 9:27 AM
mockturtle said...: Let's refuse to elect anyone to office who has never worked in the private sector.; 12/21/20, 9:33 AM
Bruce Hayden said...: “Obama's green energy deals were all fake... wasted money - made rich leftist insiders wealthy”

Maybe the most ridiculous was Cash for Clunkers. Who in their right mind actually believed that paying people to destroy assets (in this case, vehicles) was a good way to stimulate the economy? No different from breaking Windows in order to replace them.

The biggest problem with the Porkulus “stimulus” bill was that it was mostly put together under the eye of Speaker Nancy Palsi. She essentially said that since the important thing was spending money, it really didn’t matter where it was spent (which is idiotic, of course), so might as well spend it on her party’s priorities, which ultimately means making its elite even richer with crony deals. Which, of course, is what famously happened there - for example the Green Energy loans were essentially structured as non recourse gifts to families and friends of powerful Dem politicians. They took the money, pretended to do something supposedly good with some of the money, pocketed the rest of it, and their companies then went out of business.; 12/21/20, 9:45 AM
Known Unknown said...: "That the federal government hasn't been sending Americans $1,000 checks each month since April is a fucking disgrace."

How about ending lockdowns that don't work instead?; 12/21/20, 9:46 AM
Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...: In Denver, stacks of bricks were delivered... and left for all the protests.

Really.; 12/21/20, 9:53 AM
Michael McNeil said...: While talking about the “American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009” (a.k.a. Obama's 2009 stimulus bill), it's worth recalling (if indeed many folk, other than people who read [e.g.] the scientific journal Nature, ever knew) that Big Science in America was the beneficiary of a huge windfall from the 2009-2010 stimulus — to the tune of more than $52 billion — little of which could be characterized as “shovel-ready” work. For instance, agencies such as the NSF and NIH received 50% increases in their typical budget. Of those funds, many hundreds of millions went to speed up construction on various scientific projects, while billions were applied to (temporarily) fund an array of new grants.

This 2-page graphical pdf from October 2009 in Nature visualizes the funding consequences thus far of the stimulus act — while an editorial in that same issue deplores the enormous waste (and ultimate damage to science) involved in the process.; 12/21/20, 9:55 AM
J. Farmer said...: @BidenFamilyTaxPayerFundedCrackPipe:

LOL - are you kidding?

No.

Your definitions are off, Farmer.

Well, let's consult a few neutral references.

Enyclopedia Britannica: "Socialism, social and economic doctrine that calls for public rather than private ownership or control of property and natural resources."

Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy: "Both socialism and capitalism grant workers legal control of their labor power, but socialism, unlike capitalism, requires that the bulk of the means of production workers use to yield goods and services be under the effective control of workers themselves, rather than in the hands of the members of a different, capitalist class under whose direction they must toil."

Random House Unabridged Dictionary: "a theory or system of social organization that advocates the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, capital, land, etc., by the community as a whole, usually through a centralized government."

Merriam-Webster: "any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods"

The America working class is just fine if the state can manage to keep over-bearing regulations and punitive taxes at a minimum.

Decreasing life expectancy and increasing rates of drug overdose, alcoholism, and suicide is "just fine"?

Punitive taxes?!? The majority of the white working class receives Earned Income Tax Credit, Child Tax Credit, or both. The white working class has received little economic gain since the 1970s, when the country was much more heavily regulated. Reductions to trade barriers allowed businesses to reduce costs by using cheaper foreign labor with a much lower standard of living.; 12/21/20, 10:02 AM
Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...: Enyclopedia Britannica: "Socialism, social and economic doctrine that calls for public rather than private ownership or control of property and natural resources."

"Calls for" that's sort of a tell that someone got a hold of the definition.

There is no public consortium of ownership - it's the State.; 12/21/20, 10:12 AM
Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...: Farmer said...
Decreasing life expectancy and increasing rates of drug overdose, alcoholism, and suicide is "just fine"?

What a completely lazy and dishonest argument, Farmer. I never said that- that's a different topic. I know you work at some capacity in as a social worker, and perhaps you see the worst of it day in and day out.; 12/21/20, 10:14 AM
J. Farmer said...: @Michael K:

Arguing with you is a fruitless exercise as you are fixed in your opinions and immune to new information but there was a slight difference between Obama spending and Trump spending. A virus epidemic and national hysteria fed by the Media which no longer functions as information.

Trump's deficit spending hit a trillion dollars before the Covid-19 epidemic even occurred. And that was in a period of full employment and steady economic growth. Obama took office at at time of a massive global recession. Trump's first budget had $800 billion of deficit spending, the highest in six years.

It was just a few months ago that Ted Cruz told Axios: "I have raged against my own party not genuinely fighting to rein in spending and deficits and debt."; 12/21/20, 10:19 AM
Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...: Capitalism and the American experiment have lifted more people out of poverty than any other experiment. It's not perfect - because humans are not perfect.

Socialism and communism have been tired. They failed.
yes yes - Americans live with a pack of socialist programs - some of them work around the edges to help keep people out of abject poverty. I'd submit that abuse of that system leads to despair, drug and alcohol abuse - and crime; 12/21/20, 10:21 AM
J. Farmer said...: @BidenFamilyTaxPayerFundedCrackPipe:

There is no public consortium of ownership - it's the State.

I'll grant that. But state ownership of the means of production wasn't your claim. You said, "When the state provides citizens with money for nothing - that is classic socialism."

What a completely lazy and dishonest argument, Farmer. I never said that- that's a different topic.

I asked you about "the spirit of the American working class." You said it was "just fine." And it most certainly is not a "different topic." There's a reason the combination of increased rates of substance abuse and suicide are referred to as "deaths of despair." The economic backbone of those communities was systematically dismantled and moved offshore in a process of "post-industrialism."; 12/21/20, 10:28 AM
J. Farmer said...: @BidenFamilyTaxPayerFundedCrackPipe:

Capitalism and the American experiment have lifted more people out of poverty than any other experiment. It's not perfect - because humans are not perfect.

Socialism and communism have been tired. They failed.

The problem with this analysis is the assumption that our options are either the neoliberalism of the past 40 years or Marxist-Leninism. All of the high-income capitalist countries have various redistributive schemes to address the inequalities inherent in capitalism. There isn't just one kind of capitalism. With very little exception, every economic system in the world is a mixed system. The question before us is what should the mix be. Conservative critiques of capitalism predate Karl Marx.; 12/21/20, 10:35 AM
Rusty said...: The problem with this analysis is the assumption that our options are either the neoliberalism of the past 40 years or Marxist-Leninism. All of the high-income capitalist countries have various redistributive schemes to address the inequalities inherent in capitalism.
Point them out.; 12/21/20, 12:01 PM
J. Farmer said...: @Rusty:

Point them out.

All of the various social welfare programs in places like Germany, France, Scandinavia, Netherlands, UK, Canada, New Zealand, Australia, Japan, South Korea, and Israel. Most typically, this is achieved through taxation and transfer payments.; 12/21/20, 12:33 PM
Jim at said...: Remarkable that anyone has any interest in any pro sport league after they all caved to lefty demands for social justice bullshit.

Yep. To each his/her own, but I'll never watch another minute. I've got better things to do than put money into the pockets of shitheads who hate me.; 12/21/20, 1:02 PM
mockturtle said...: I've got better things to do than put money into the pockets of shitheads who hate me.

So you don't pay taxes?; 12/21/20, 1:51 PM
Jim at said...: So you don't pay taxes?

Only if I have to. :)
Nobody's forcing me to watch pro sports.; 12/21/20, 2:13 PM
Rusty said...: J. Farmer said...
"@Rusty:

Point them out.

All of the various social welfare programs in places like Germany, France, Scandinavia, Netherlands, UK, Canada, New Zealand, Australia, Japan, South Korea, and Israel. Most typically, this is achieved through taxation and transfer payments."
And do you know why?; 12/21/20, 2:23 PM
mockturtle said...: Rusty's response at 2:23 PM: Exactly! Redistribution of wealth. I wouldn't choose to live in any of the above-mentioned countries, not just because of taxation but because these countries do not cherish individual rights and freedoms. This has become increasingly evident during the past year but has long been the case. Spending any amount of time in Europe or Japan will show you just how little personal freedom is allowed there compared to the US. I'm not saying this is necessarily bad for them. In the case of Japan, too much individuality would be destructive to a carefully maintained system. But the kinds of social constraints these countries impose would not be well tolerated here. At least by those of my generation.; 12/21/20, 2:35 PM
Birkel said...: I call what is developing in the USA corporatist fascism for a reason.
J Farmer is pedantic and Smug.
But we are not moving toward definitional socialism.

It is Leftist Collectivist.
It is corporatist fascism.; 12/21/20, 3:08 PM
Birkel said...: My turn to be pedantic:
"Conservative critiques of capitalism predate Karl Marx."

False.
Marx called it capitalism in his attempt to describe reality with a false dichotomy.

Critiques of free markets pre-dated Marx and include Marx.; 12/21/20, 3:12 PM
Birkel said...: The trade-off that Smug fails to mention is persistent high unemployment in all of those countries.
They are not factories of innovation and offer little to no chance of changing your station in life.

Leftist Collectivism:
Let's freeze the size of the pie and argue about how to distribute it.

Free markets:
Let's grow the pie and make the whole world better off such that the new definition of poor is richer than almost all humans who ever lived prior to the last 50 years.; 12/21/20, 3:16 PM
mockturtle said...: It is corporatist fascism.

Which is more or less what they had under the Third Reich.; 12/21/20, 3:42 PM
Birkel said...: Or the Italian fascists.
Or the Japanese fascists.

It is not much like the early Chinese communists.
Or the Soviet Communists.

It is very much like the current Chinese communists.
Or the modern Russian state and its oligarchs.

Fun!; 12/21/20, 3:44 PM
Iman said...: Blogger Inga said...
I wish I was a fly on the head of someone in that Oval Office meeting between Michael “Q” Flynn and the Kraken, Trump, Mark Meadows, Rudy and...

I guess that would be a nice change of pace from sunbathing on a turd.; 12/21/20, 4:43 PM
I'm Not Sure said...: "Leftist Collectivism:
Let's freeze the size of the pie and argue about how to distribute it.

Warren Meyer at Coyote Blog, sixteen years ago:

In fact, here is a sure fire test for a progressive. If given a choice between two worlds:

#1- A capitalist society where the overall levels of wealth and technology continue to increase, though in a pattern that is dynamic, chaotic, generally unpredictable, and whose rewards are unevenly distributed, or...

#2- A "progressive" society where everyone is poorer, but income is generally more evenly distributed. In this society, jobs and pay and industries change only very slowly, and people have good assurances that they will continue to have what they have today, with little downside but also with very little upside.

Progressives will choose #2. Even if it means everyone is poorer. Even if it cuts off any future improvements we might gain in technology or wealth or lifespan or whatever. They want to take what we have today, divide it up more equally, and then live to eternity with just that. Progressives want #2 today, and they wanted it just as much in 1900.

https://coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2004/12/progressives_di.html; 12/21/20, 4:49 PM
Birkel said...: I'm Not Sure:
They want to strangle The Golden Goose.
That is why that story (and biblical stories to the same extent) exist.; 12/21/20, 7:16 PM
Rusty said...: J. Where does wealth com from?; 12/22/20, 7:24 AM