November 24, 2020

"President Trump’s government on Monday authorized President-elect Joseph R. Biden Jr. to begin a formal transition process after Michigan certified Mr. Biden as its winner..."

"... a strong sign that the president’s last-ditch bid to overturn the results of the election was coming to an end. Mr. Trump did not concede, and vowed to persist with efforts to change the vote, which have so far proved fruitless. But the president said on Twitter on Monday night that he accepted the decision by Emily W. Murphy, the administrator of the General Services Administration, to allow a transition to proceed. In his tweet, Mr. Trump said that he had told his officials to begin 'initial protocols' involving the handoff to Mr. Biden 'in the best interest of our country,' even though he had spent weeks of trying to subvert a free and fair election with false claims of fraud. Hours later, he tried to play down the significance of Ms. Murphy’s action, tweeting that it was simply 'preliminarily work with the Dems' that would not stop efforts to change the election results."

The NYT reports. That's a harsh way to put it: "trying to subvert a free and fair election with false claims of fraud." It comes close to reporting from the inside of Trump's head. What was he "trying" to do? Do we know enough to say as a fact that it was "a free and fair election" and that the claims of fraud — all of them? — were false? Or do we merely have good reason to think the election was fair enough and not so infected with fraud that we must accept that Biden has won? Trump may have believed that there was enough uncertainty that what he was doing was not "trying to subvert" the election. He might have genuinely believed that he was working to get to the truth. If so, I wonder, how strongly he would resist admitting that he was wrong, that he did not have the kind of evidence that could change the outcome. If you're fighting for what you believe is the truth, at what point do you lose your claim to a good motive and deserve it when the NYT reports it as fact that your motive was to subvert the election?

152 comments:

iowan2 said...

Gore tied things up for 37 days. He was the model statesman.

clint said...

Any mention of the fact that the GSA administrator says she only agreed after receiving threats "... directed at my safety, my family, my staff and even my pets in an effort to coerce me into making this determination prematurely..."?

Or was that part not 'fit to print'?

rhhardin said...

If you're fighting for what you believe is the truth, at what point do you lose your claim to a good motive and deserve it when the NYT reports it as fact that your motive was to subvert the election?

Trump was trying to save the system that makes the country stable. The courts are not going to let him do it, so he takes the second best choice.

The new information is the courts.

Mark said...

Clint, there are plenty of personal and family threats going around on both sides.

I assume you have been here daily denouncing the threats against Gretchen Whitmer and others?

boatbuilder said...

“Free and fair election.”

The same NYT that tells us endlessly that this entire nation is not and has never been “free and fair.”

But no question here. Nothing to see, move along.

R C Belaire said...

"The NYT reports. That's a harsh way to put it: "trying to subvert a free and fair election with false claims of fraud.""

Yeah, like we haven't seen anything like it since, say, 2016-2020.

mockturtle said...

"even though he had spent weeks of trying to subvert a free and fair election with false claims of fraud."

We've come to that phase of totalitarianism where truth is a lie and lies are truth and all information is misinformation.

rehajm said...

We set up a convenient way to stuff ballots then locked observers out of the counts but no GOP you can't audit the results...so no, Trump can't 'prove' fraud?

Does he have to prove fraud to question the results? PA defied a court order. Massive violation of election law is sufficient to toss the result, yet here we are...

Has everyone just become accustomed to cherry picking laws to violate and flaunt while doing so? Something tells me that's going to stop. The people who want to defund the police now want you to call the police on your neighbors celebrating Thanksgiving...

...but Trump tweets mean things! you say. Not to fret- they'll get to you first...

wendybar said...

I just want President Trump to declassify everything, and let the chips fall where they may. It's time to find out the REAL TRUTH!!!

wendybar said...

clint said...
Any mention of the fact that the GSA administrator says she only agreed after receiving threats "... directed at my safety, my family, my staff and even my pets in an effort to coerce me into making this determination prematurely..."?

Or was that part not 'fit to print'?

11/24/20, 6:08 AM

Once again proving the bullying, threats and violence work. Thanks Democrats.

rehajm said...

...and I'm not buying this line of argument- passing the money along to ensure a smooth transition is the sensible thing to do with a pending outcome, not an admission of capitulation.

I'd feel better about it is there was a clawback provision attached to the money but who we kiddin'...

David Begley said...

The NYT could run ten stories a day - for the next three years - about how the Dems stole the election.

wendybar said...

Mark said...
Clint, there are plenty of personal and family threats going around on both sides.

I assume you have been here daily denouncing the threats against Gretchen Whitmer and others?

11/24/20, 6:14 AM

You mean Dictator Whitmer who has rules for herself and husband and rules for the peons???

narciso said...


Go with that:

https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2020/11/why_industrial_scale_fraud_is_just_so_hard_to_hide.html

tim maguire said...

The New York Times is a garbage publication who found their successful business model in lying to people who want to be lied to. The only reason to read it is to learn what the day's lefty talking points are. Nobody who cares what actually happened would look the Times for enlightenment.

This used to be true only of stories with a political angle, but these days everything has a political angle. "The personal is political" is turning out to be the most damaging statement since "workers of the world, unite!"

stevew said...

They sure are going to miss him when he's gone. Boring does not sell newspapers or draw eyeballs to websites.

Trump has begun working on his next thing. By engaging in the transition he is also saying that anything he has plans to do between now and Jan 20 is not going to be affected or undermined by Joe.

narciso said...


Evergreen


https://babalublog.com/2020/01/08/the-new-york-times-loved-cubas-dictator-fidel-castro-a-lot-more-than-late-nfl-coach-sam-wyche/

jaydub said...

Yeah, but everyone knows Trump is not really going to leave the WH voluntarily. Nearly every major newspaper has spent the last several months telling us that. Repeatedly. BTW, have the lefties determined whether it's the Secret Service or the Military who will forcibly drag him out kicking and screaming?

tim maguire said...

Mark said...
Clint, there are plenty of personal and family threats going around on both sides.

I assume you have been here daily denouncing the threats against Gretchen Whitmer and others?


I can never understand this attitude. Which we see far too much of from partisans.

Mark, are you saying that threatening the family of an elections supervisor is ok because other people get threatened too? Or are you saying that no one can object to one threat unless they "daily" object to every threat?

How sleazy do you have to be to pretend that this is ok and try to stop other people from objecting?

Darkisland said...

Blogger Mark said...

I assume you have been here daily denouncing the threats against Gretchen Whitmer and others?

Got any info on this?

All I know about is the potential scheme by some progressive/antifa/blm types to kidnap her.

That seemed more like a setup by the FBI than anything real.

John Henry

JAORE said...

"I assume you have been here daily denouncing the threats against Gretchen Whitmer and others?"

Proportionality is a real word. Add it to your vocabulary.

Although the image of (insert name of third rank celebrity here) holding the severed head of Whitmer is burned into my brain.

Jersey Fled said...

The NYT has never ascribed a good motive to Trump for anything. Ever.

As I will never ascribed a good motive to them.

tim in vermont said...

"even though he had spent weeks of trying to subvert a free and fair election with false claims of fraud.”

This is our media now.

Mark said...

No, I am saying that he only complains when his ox is being gored - having stood around when his political enemy had their ox gored.

I am making no editorial comment on ox gorings or wife beatings, though you really want to make this argument about me and the words you would like to put into my mouth.


tim in vermont said...

Neocons all getting hardons this morning as they get hold of the reins of power again. CIA and FBI probably already “leaking" new war justifications to the times and the WaPo.

Hillary is mad because she only sold out to the Russians and Biden had the wisdom to sell out to the ChiComs. Not that the New York Times will report any of the evidence.

Rick said...

though you really want to make this argument about me

Shockingly the person who wants to make this about someone else whines he's the victim when someone makes it about him.

narciso said...

Avril haines the erotic book store owner for dni, mayorkas the crook with mcawful, kerry the soviet agent. Try again.

narciso said...

The coen bros militia, im not impressed

rehajm said...

The NYT could run ten stories a day - for the next three years - about how the Dems stole the election.

I suspect if their friends get away with it they just might. Lefties can't resist a duper's delight...

rehajm said...

...with nobody to enforce consequences, why not?

Quayle said...

I’m grateful to know that my life is just fine without ever reading the New York Times. “The paper reeds by the brooks, by the mouth of the brooks, and every thing sown by the brooks, shall wither, be driven away, and be no more.”

I’m also grateful to have the Book of Mormon. That’s the read that truly informs about what’s going on in America and particularly in these days.

tim in vermont said...

"even though he had spent weeks of trying to subvert a free and fair election with false claims of fraud."

(!) Claims that the election was free of fraud are disputed

Temujin said...

If I've learned anything watching Trump over the past few years is that you never take things as they appear on the surface. There is always another game he is playing, on a different level, in a different dimension than most can see or understand.

I could be nuts, but my gut tells me that his last and best move is yet to come.

Lucien said...

I'm shocked, shocked to see the NYT acting as an advocate rather than a newspaper. It's not the paper of record, it's the paper of narrative.

tim maguire said...

Mark said...
No, I am saying that he only complains when his ox is being gored - having stood around when his political enemy had their ox gored.


Either way, you're trying to make it not about the ox. You're throwing a wrench into the system and then complaining that it didn't land where you wanted it. Thrown wrenches have a way of doing that.

Balfegor said...

I probably wouldn't be quite as disgusted with the Times' framing there if they hadn't participated in the disgraceful media-driven effort to undermine the results of the "free and fair" 2016 by treating wild allegations of "collusion" and Russian dirty tricks swinging the election seriously. It's not "harsh" -- it's just baseless speculation presented as though it were fact.

That said, I don't think Trump is going to experience much cognitive dissonance at all. And it's not even much of a stretch. Well, if he was all in on the "Dominion voting machines were rigged to switch votes!" theory (shades of 2004 when Democrats were making similar wild allegations about Diebold) then he's going to be disappointed. If that actually happened, evidence would exist in some form somewhere, and its absence (or Powell's inability to produce it) is, ah, telling. But if it's just that mail-in votes sent out and tracked using poorly maintained voter rolls plus sloppy voter ID verification procedures permitted hundreds of thousands of fake votes -- unlike the voting machine theory that only emerged after the election, those are WCGW's that were clearly identified in advance and ignored by many election authorities in favour of keeping the voting process simple. And once a fraudulent ballot gets mixed in with legitimate ballots, there's no way I can think of to pull it back out.

So I expect him to do the full Stacey Abrams. I mean, look at Clinton II! She's never fully come to terms with the reality that she lost a "free and fair" election either. Trump could conceivably spend the rest of his life believing that he would have been re-elected but for Democratic dirty tricks. In, I guess, Georgia and Arizona, which seems . . implausible to me. But I also thought the notion that Russian interference swung the 2016 election was ludicrous, and supposedly intelligent people took it seriously. People will believe any kind of nonsense to preserve their egos.

Lurker21 said...

I was hoping this would be A Day No Ox Would Be Gored.

But I suppose we'll all get spattered again.

tim maguire said...

Temujin said...I could be nuts, but my gut tells me that his last and best move is yet to come.

I hope you're right, but the evidence need sot b e airtight or all we are doing is substituting one group of furious people who feel robbed for another group of furious people who feel robbed. No net improvement. The case needs to be put out there in a way that only the true diehards will reject it.

Rusty said...

jaydub said...
"Yeah, but everyone knows Trump is not really going to leave the WH voluntarily. Nearly every major newspaper has spent the last several months telling us that. Repeatedly. BTW, have the lefties determined whether it's the Secret Service or the Military who will forcibly drag him out kicking and screaming?"
The rumor going around from the leftists I know is that the Navy Seals are on standby to evict him. For a bunch of people who loathe the military they sure do rely on them to do their dirty work.

mockturtle said...

One big mistake the Left is making is their assumption that Trump supporters are a personality cult and that it's all about Trump. They are wrong. It's mostly about what Trump stands for: America and Americans; and what he stands against: The blatantly dishonest media and the noxious DC swamp.

Curious George said...

"I mean, look at Clinton II! She's never fully come to terms with the reality that she lost a "free and fair" election either."

C'mon. You're a smart guy, but this statement is laughable.

Amadeus 48 said...

I don’t believe a single word that Althouse reads in the New York Times.

tim in vermont said...

"Georgia and Arizona, which seems . . implausible to me. “

In AZ half of Republican voters contacted who claimed to have sent in an absentee ballot did not have that ballot counted. That’s evidence, not a theory.

In GA there are thousands of votes where the voter claimed to have “lived” at a PO box of some kind, and where they changed the address to look like an apt number or suite.

But focusing on the Dominion thing was a huge mistake, like saying that the Clinton impeachment was about a “blow job.”

Francisco D said...

mockturtle said...One big mistake the Left is making is their assumption that Trump supporters are a personality cult and that it's all about Trump. They are wrong. It's mostly about what Trump stands for: America and Americans; and what he stands against: The blatantly dishonest media and the noxious DC swamp.

That is because PROJECTION is their primary defense against their own neurotic impulses.

The Clinton and Obama cults still exist. The Trump cult only exists in the minds of insane Democrats.

tim in vermont said...

"C'mon. You're a smart guy, but this statement is laughable.”

Why? She is the one who told Biden to "never concede under any circumstances.” What was that but a statement of regret that she conceded herself.

Darkisland said...


Blogger Jersey Fled said...

The NYT has never ascribed a good motive to Trump for anything. Ever.

You need to put "President" in there Jersey.

The NYT Loooooved Donald Trump before he announced his candidacy.

As did pretty much everyone else in the US and around the world.

John Henry

Darkisland said...

Blogger Temujin said...

I could be nuts, but my gut tells me that his last and best move is yet to come.

Yup. Mine too. I'm still feeling pretty good about January 20.

John Henry

Clyde said...

They aren't called Pravda-On-the-Hudson for nothing.

tim in vermont said...

Trump is now Sherman McCoy. We are all living in a Tom Wolfe novel.

Left Bank of the Charles said...

At what point do you lose your claim to a good motive? He lost it after the Ukraine call.

Kai Akker said...

Grrrrrr.... Mockturtle @ 6:17 am has this situation summed up perfectly.

But the Althouse question is: "If you're fighting for what you believe is the truth, at what point do you lose your claim to a good motive and deserve it when the NYT reports it as fact that your motive was to subvert the election?"

Nowhere and never. What the NYT reports has no bearing on anything, anymore. They long ago squandered their small claim to reportage and judgment. The Althouse fascination with that newspaper is a throwback to the days when nice families in the NY metro area all subscribed to the Gray Lady and let James Reston and Tom Wicker inform them of the world. But it is entirely an anachronism in the Pinch-Sulz era, which is already almost 30 years old. When do you wake up and smell the coffee, Ms. Althouse? Is it not time to put away childish things?

Balfegor said...

Re: Curious George and Tim in Vermont:

C'mon. You're a smart guy, but this statement is laughable.”

Why? She is the one who told Biden to "never concede under any circumstances.” What was that but a statement of regret that she conceded herself.


I'd add to that her various statements that she thinks Trump colluded with the Russians (mostly 2017-2018), and her completely bonkers allegation just last year that Tulsi Gabbard was being "groomed" by the Russians. Russia has become her bogeyman.

Chuck said...

I sympathize with Althouse.

She reads the New York Times the same way that I read her blog’s comments pages.

Darkisland said...

So Mark,

Got any info about the death threats against Whitmer?

John Henry

rehajm said...

When do you wake up and smell the coffee, Ms. Althouse?

She has anosmia.

Fandor said...

IMAGINE this...November 22, 1963...there is an assassination ATTEMPT on President John F. Kennedy. Somehow, through luck, or the quick defensive actions of a secret service agent, say Clint Hill, the president is wounded but not mortally. He is treated at Parkland for a body wound...the HEAD SHOT MISSED. Kennedy's thinking is coherent and clear. He returns to Washington immediately because HE KNOWS there has been a failed coup, in so far as it didn't murder him in Dealey Plaza. Back in the White House, for the time being safe, who do you think the first person JFK would call to get to the bottom of the plot? That's right, you guessed it. The Kennedy family pit bull, Attorney General RFK. While the trail was hot there would be a lot of people under suspicion and investigated. Justice pursued in the moment, not six months later with a commission to whitewash a "dead" president who was the victim of a dastardly plot.
That's what we have here. On November 4th & 5th, 2020, there was a virtual assassination attempt on President Donald J. Trump.
He was wounded, but not fatally. Still, he may succumb to his wounds. If he does, not only will his presidency be dead, it will BE ERASED from history, Aka, WIKI, GOOGLE, et al. But the bigger tragedy will be that the REPUBLIC WILL SURELY DIE.
The conspirators in this coup are LEGION, foreign and domestic.
The president has no real help within our government. Most, if not all are in the tank for THE BIG RESET. There is a remnant that supports the CONSTITUTION in each of the three branches who are doing what they can to preserve the Republic.
Trump has had to retain private attorneys to make his case in court that the election was stolen.
Hopefully,with God's help, they will.
Certainly, 73 million Americans are praying that comes to be.
NOW, while the trail is hot, and the conspirators are attempting to cover their trails, is the time to hunt them down and expose the GREATEST ROBBERY in United States history.
I don't want a commission telling me years from now Trump won the election even though we handed it off to "president-elect" Joe Biden.
We want the facts NOW!
Dark days are ahead no matter what the outcome.
Let's fight now, as bad as it will be, rather than later, when it will only be far worse.
No Justice, No Peace.

Kai Akker said...

---Let's fight now, as bad as it will be, rather than later, when it will only be far worse.
No Justice, No Peace. [Fandor]

Time for the government-in-exile. What better time?

Kai Akker said...

---She has anosmia. [rehajm]

Wise guy!

Kevin said...

Now use your vast NYT privileges to compare and contrast with Al Gore.

narciso said...



Lol

https://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/nb/duncan-schroeder/2020/11/23/cnns-crazed-brinkley-claims-trump-will-form-shadow-government

Darrell said...

Now the death penalty is on the table.
I prefer Covid-19 to Biden 2020.

Gunner said...

As soon as I heard on Election Night that President Trump was doing worse with white men than in 2016, I knew he would ultimately lose Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania.

Mike of Snoqualmie said...

The NYT is part of the election fraud effort, they are the propaganda arm of the conspiracy. "Nothing to see here, move along."

China Joe doesn't understand why reporters are suddenly asking him questions. Why would they want to do that, Joe? Joe, go back to your basement.

Birkel said...

Trump's legal team is trying to prevent the disenfranchisement of all the Americans who voted for him and watched in horror as four Democratical cities cheated their way to a stolen election for a demented old man with no history of positive accomplishment.

There.
That fits reality.

Birkel said...

I will do the idiot Mark a favor:

I denounce the threats to Dictator Whitmer made by those radical anarchists and Leftist Collectivists.
Thankfully, the radical anarchists and Leftist Collectivists were arrested.

When the conservatives start planning, it won't be as part of some FBI-infiltrated group.

MikeR said...

"If so, I wonder, how strongly he would resist admitting that he was wrong, that he did not have the kind of evidence that could change the outcome." I think this line makes the point, and misses the point. How strongly he would resist admitting that he even though he was right, that he would never have the kind of evidence that could change the outcome?

Marty said...

"Mark, are you saying that threatening the family of an elections supervisor is ok because other people get threatened too? Or are you saying that no one can object to one threat unless they "daily" object to every threat?"

That's just a variation on a theme that is a lefty favorite: Every republican in office (esp. Trump) must immediately denounce and condemn publicly any statement made by any individual anywhere that is offensive, violent, unacceptable, or otherwise opposed by democrats or the press (BIRM), Failure to do so within the time frame demanded by dems means the Republican has forever forfeited the right to say anything else about it.

Mike of Snoqualmie said...

The Michigan legislature needs to impeach the Michigan Attorney General, Dana Nessel, for threatening the legislature leaders with prosecution for talking to President Donald Trump. The AG is trying to use the power of the state to suppress a differing political position.

The WA legislature needs to do the same to Washington's King Jay I. King Jay I is abusing his powers to bankrupt gyms, restaurants and bars. He's usurped the power of the legislature to rule by decree.

Roughcoat said...

I skip all the posts derived from NY Times articles. Now I don't even read through the comments. Just sort of skim over them.

narciso said...


The wizards behind thr curtains


https://gnews.org/560854/

Howard said...

Blogger tim in vermont said...
Trump is now Sherman McCoy. We are all living in a Tom Wolfe novel.


So your saying it's all Stormy Daniels fault?

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...

the Democrat money whores.... need money. Our money.

Big Mike said...

Do we know enough to say as a fact that it was "a free and fair election" and that the claims of fraud — all of them? — were false?

We know enough to say that it was anything but. There is no mathematician or statistician not deeply immersed in the deep blue cult of “Orangeman Bad” that looks at the numbers and think they are not phony as Hell. Beyond that, a “free and fair” election might have included honest reporting on Biden’s boast of how he used the threat of withholding foreign aid to Ukraine to quash a legitimate investigation into official corruption. Or even halfway honest reporting about what Trump really said about Charlottesville.

Or do we merely have good reason to think the election was fair enough and not so infected with fraud that we must accept that Biden has won?

Not hardly.

MayBee said...

There are people on twitter convinced Trump was never going to leave, or is never going to leave.
People who think the military told him they wouldn't cover for him in a coup.

I don't know what to say anymore. A lot of these same people thought Trump would start a nuclear war. He's been the least war-forward president in my lifetime. A lot of these people thought Russia put him in place. He's done almost nothing to benefit Russia. And now they imagined he wasn't going to leave office and they are still going with that.

At what point do they realize they are just indulging in their own fantasies? Out loud. In person?

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...

The reality is Hillary colluded with Russians - for money.
Biden family colluded with corrupt Ukrainian energy company - for money.

Orange Man Bad.

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...

Democrats are corrupt. The MSM who cover for corrupt democrats is corrupt.

Sad and dangerous times.

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...

Shock

Biden to hire a long list of Tech Oligarchs to help run his corrupt power-kingdom

Bernie approves.

narciso said...


Unsurprising

https://thefederalist.com/2020/11/24/bidens-pick-for-national-security-adviser-is-a-steele-dossier-truther/#.X70jBESotdE.twitter

Big Mike said...

I could be nuts, but my gut tells me that his last and best move is yet to come.

@Temujin, regretfully, I think you and John Henry are nuts. For the sake of the country I hope I’m wrong but I think it’s Trump who is out of options.

Qwinn said...

Maybee:

"At what point do they realize they are just indulging in their own fantasies? Out loud. In person?"

That's not what they're doing.

I recommend to stop attributing to stupidity or mental illness what is more logically explained by malice.

hombre said...

It’s not enough for the leftmediaswine at the NYT that Beijing Biden will be President. They have to pretend that he won “fair and square,” which, of course, is belied by both the evidence and the laws of probability.

Years ago, Hoyt Axton was asked about royalties from his “Greenback Dollar,” a huge hit for the Kingston Trio. He said, “The royalties were great if you’re up for counting a million pennies.” Same thing here. There is so much evidence of fraud and irregularities that the mind boggles and Trump’s lawyers are confounded.

Since his election Trump has been buried in an avalanche of Democrat corruption. Nothing has changed, but now at least half of us have seen what we are dealing with. Maybe that is why ammunition is flying off the shelves.

Achilles said...

Rusty said...

The rumor going around from the leftists I know is that the Navy Seals are on standby to evict him. For a bunch of people who loathe the military they sure do rely on them to do their dirty work.

Navy SEALs? They think that the vanilla/Blue is there for them? Against Trump and for Biden.

That is pretty funny. That is the last group of people I would want anywhere near me if I was in the Obama administration. The absolutely scary last group of people.

hombre said...

rhhardin at 6:11: “The new Information is the Courts.”

Exactly right! Although this is not as new for some of us as others.

Daddy Binx said...

Amadeus 48 said...
"I don’t believe a single word that Althouse reads in the New York Times."

Is there such a thing as Battered NYT Reader Syndrome?

Birkel said...

I have been saying for more than five years that the Leftist Collectivists only want power.
They want Leviathan government so that they can sell their control to big businesses - domestic and foreign.
They do not wish us to be serfs, that is a happy artifact of their plans.
They want to be Lords and Ladies but without the noblesse oblige.
They want to be decadent.

Those of you who wish to project your own generosity of spirit into the Leftist Collectivists are the crazy ones.
If you think the Leftist Collectivists care about anything beyond power it is you who needs to get woke.
They hate you because you are the people who slow their dreams of control and power.
They want you dead.

"Not the people I know" some of you will say about your neighbors and friends.
Yes, them too.
They will hound you from public life and push you out of gainful employment.

Birkel said...

If you get punched in the face, are you in a fight?
Who amongst you can answer this question?

It's an honest question with a correct answer.

Michael K said...

Blogger Howard said...
Blogger tim in vermont said...
Trump is now Sherman McCoy. We are all living in a Tom Wolfe novel.

So your saying it's all Stormy Daniels fault?


I thought it was a crazy comment, too. Trump is a long way from Sherman McCoy, one of fiction's dopiest losers.

Daddy Binx said...

Blogger Chuck said...
"I sympathize with Althouse.

She reads the New York Times the same way that I read her blog’s comments pages."

I doubt this very much.

I can't imagine Althouse sitting in her basement, in the dark, in her Spiderman underwear, clutching her Bill Kristol(tm) plush toy, reading her laptop, and screaming at the ceiling about TRUMP! and DRAGO! and precious bodily fluids.

Achilles said...

Birkel said...

If you get punched in the face, are you in a fight?
Who amongst you can answer this question?

It's an honest question with a correct answer.


But it is a different answer for everyone.

Achilles said...

BidenFamilyTaxPayerFundedCrackPipe said...

Democrats are corrupt. The MSM who cover for corrupt democrats is corrupt.

Sad and dangerous times.


But they are all owned by the same people.

And the people who are doing this are terribly exposed.

Especially Amazon.

Achilles said...

Birkel said...

I have been saying for more than five years that the Leftist Collectivists only want power.
They want Leviathan government so that they can sell their control to big businesses - domestic and foreign.
They do not wish us to be serfs, that is a happy artifact of their plans.
They want to be Lords and Ladies but without the noblesse oblige.
They want to be decadent.

Those of you who wish to project your own generosity of spirit into the Leftist Collectivists are the crazy ones.
If you think the Leftist Collectivists care about anything beyond power it is you who needs to get woke.
They hate you because you are the people who slow their dreams of control and power.
They want you dead.

"Not the people I know" some of you will say about your neighbors and friends.
Yes, them too.
They will hound you from public life and push you out of gainful employment.


+1

It is interesting that the leftists here express amazement that Biden is filling his cabinet with warmongering corporate allies.

Watching Gavin Newsome run up a $1000 bar tab at his lobbyist friend's bday party after locking everyone else down and instituting a curfew has to be painful to the soul of the stupid people that vote for democrats.

Achilles said...

Mark said...
No, I am saying that he only complains when his ox is being gored - having stood around when his political enemy had their ox gored.

So according to Mark antifa thugs wanting to kidnap Whitmer makes it OK for leftists to attack the GSA director.

Democrats are just shitty evil people.

Achilles said...

BidenFamilyTaxPayerFundedCrackPipe said...

Shock

Biden to hire a long list of Tech Oligarchs to help run his corrupt power-kingdom

Bernie approves.


Bernie may or may not approve.

But he got paid.

Birkel said...

No, Achilles.
There is only one answer.
The various choices you make in response de to the punch will not change the answer to the question.

"Are you in a fight?"

Joe Smith said...

So now Kamala can measure the Resolution Desk to see if she can fit underneath it?

Jupiter said...

" If so, I wonder, how strongly he would resist admitting that he was wrong, that he did not have the kind of evidence that could change the outcome."

So your position is that a woman who was raped, but does not have the evidence to prove it, is wrong to protest? A good, lawyerly position, I suppose. You realize that rapists go to great lengths to arrange that there be no evidence, right? I expect that, as an attorney, you would advise any client contemplating rape to so arrange things. Right?

Howard said...

I agree Achilles. Biden is setting off on a path to a Red Tide in 2022... unexpectedly (apologies to Drago)

Jupiter said...

But then, suppose the rapist wasn't your client. Suppose your client was the woman. What would you advise her to do? Get a gun?

Jupiter said...

Big Mike said...

"@Temujin, regretfully, I think you and John Henry are nuts. For the sake of the country I hope I’m wrong but I think it’s Trump who is out of options."

Well, at least you're doing your best to undermine the morale of those more resolute than yourself. I'll give you that.

RigelDog said...

Mark said...
Clint, there are plenty of personal and family threats going around on both sides.

I assume you have been here daily denouncing the threats against Gretchen Whitmer and others?}}}

For starters, there's no need to constantly denounce threats against Whitmer or anyone else for that matter because it's already a given principle that violent threats and actions are WRONG.
If a commenter here were to assert or imply that threats only come from one political "side," then it would be appropriate to direct this question to that commenter.

RigelDog said...

If I've learned anything watching Trump over the past few years is that you never take things as they appear on the surface.}}}

True enough, but my gut/brain is telling me that Trump doesn't have the time or the power to ferret out the necessary information to change the apparent result of the elections.

I'm an optimist and so is Trump. I hope that we can get more transparency and auditing in future elections out of this catastrophe. I hope that Trump will continue to generate vital dialogue and enthusiasm for anti-Leftist cultural and government principles.

Darkisland said...

Blogger Achilles said...

That is pretty funny. That is the last group of people I would want anywhere near me if I was in the Obama administration. The absolutely scary last group of people.

Seal Team 2 and later 4, used to be based in Roosevelt Roads and I knew some of them.

Rumor was that they would wake up in the morning and whip themselves with barbwire just to get in the right frame of mind to face the day.

My Advanced SCUBA instructor was MSBM "Sam" H0uston. Command Master Chief of Seal Team 2. Great instructor and the very picture of a SEAL. He NEVER went in the water with us or, according to some other SEALs, ever, for any reason.

I saw him in full dress one day and he had about 5 pounds of metal on his chest from 30 years of service including Korea and multiple tours in Vietnam. He was entitled not to want to go in the water ever again.

My basic SCUBA instructor was a retired UDT who had served in WWII. He considered SEAL's pussies.

I somehow can't imagine SEALs doing much to help Biden. Not those SEALS anyway. They may be different now.

John Henry

Jupiter said...

My view is that Joe Biden did not win this election. The Leftists spent the last four years arguing that Trump was not legitimately the President because he had "colluded with the Russians", a claim without any Constitutional basis, even had the allegation been true. We are not claiming that Joe Biden colluded with the Chinese, although I don't doubt that the Chinese wanted him to be President, and made strenuous efforts to achieve that outcome. Joe Biden is not President because he did not win the election. The supporters of the winner have every right to fight for the seating of the President we elected. If the situation in this country is such that elections can be stolen with impunity by a few corrupt Democrats, then the only way we can have honest elections is to kill a few corrupt Democrats. That is a price I am not yet willing to pay.

tim in vermont said...

Joe Biden, whose family has taken uncountable millions from the ChiComs, has appointed a new National Security Adviser who says we should be helping China succeed.

tim in vermont said...

"Trump is a long way from Sherman McCoy, one of fiction's dopiest losers.”

Sherman McCoy got fucked over by a corrupt system but on the last page of the novel he was still fighting and happy.

tim in vermont said...

"He lost it after the Ukraine call.”

It’s fucking cult.

tim in vermont said...

The movie was a complete piece of garbage, my comment was going off of the novel, which was great.

PM said...

"Maria?"

Chuck said...

This is really quite a beautiful sentence/question written by Althouse; "If you're fighting for what you believe is the truth, at what point do you lose your claim to a good motive and deserve it when the NYT reports it as fact that your motive was to subvert the election?"

Add to proof of Trump's ill-motive; he's never really articulated the point that he is just trying to ascertain a clear election result, which will in turn create ling term national confidence in election processes. No; Trump's bland, blunt, blundering claim is that he won. Period.

n.n said...

Apparently, she was receiving threats to comply with the outcome of the Electoral Press.

Chuck said...

Further adding to the proof of Trump's ill-motive; a lengthy string of mass communications to Trump supporters asking for money and telling them that their donations are needed to foil the theft of an election that was rightfully won by Trump:

https://twitter.com/DavidCornDC/status/1331246113576333322

Big Mike said...

@Jupiter, I think it’s past time to think about resistance and disobedience.

Big Mike said...


We've come to that phase of totalitarianism where truth is a lie and lies are truth and all information is misinformation.


@mockturtle, yes.

Qwinn said...

Anyone else noticing that all of Chuck's "proof of Trump's ill motive" are things that Trump would *also* be doing if his motives were in fact perfectly legitimate because he did in fact believe the election was stolen? Talk about begging the question (the actual original meaning of that term).

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...

Biden is asking for transition money, Chuck.

Chuck said...

Qwinn said...
Anyone else noticing that all of Chuck's "proof of Trump's ill motive" are things that Trump would *also* be doing if his motives were in fact perfectly legitimate because he did in fact believe the election was stolen? Talk about begging the question (the actual original meaning of that term).


So when do we get to the point that absolutely every other defeated presidential candidate has come to in this century, where Trump concedes that all election procedures have been concluded and he lost...?

We both know the answer with Trump. The answer is, "Never." Trump will play out the "I wuz robbed" narrative as long as it suits him which is probably as long as he lives. And many of his wounded, warped, ignorant base will follow his lead. National trust and confidence in American elections will suffer. For no good reason. Only to assuage Trump's wounded ego. And to create a political pocket for more Trump candidacies.

Greg The Class Traitor said...

Here, Chuck, let me explain things so that even someone as fundamentally stupid as you can understand:

https://www.ajc.com/news/atlanta-news/fulton-election-results-delayed-after-pipe-bursts-in-room-with-ballots/4T3KPQV7PBEX3JVAIGJBNBSVJY/

"They planned to stop scanning absentee ballots at 10:30 p.m. and pick it up back in the morning. No official could explain before press time why Fulton was stopping its count of absentee ballots at that time, only saying that was the procedure."

No, it isn't the procedure. it's what you do when you want to find out how many votes you have to manufacture in order to steal the election

So, what happened? This is what happened:
https://www.dailywire.com/news/georgia-gop-chair-casts-doubt-on-election-process-counting-ballots-in-secret

“No one disputes that Fulton County elections officials falsely announced that the counting of ballots would stop at 10:30 p.m.,” the GOP chair noted. “No one disputes that Fulton County elected officials unlawfully resumed the counting of ballots after our observers left the center.”

According to Fulton County Elections head Richard Barron, ballots continued to be counted until 1 a.m. on election night after Barron “sent home just about all his workers at about 10:30 p.m.,” reported Fox News:


The same thing happened in Detroit, Philly, and Milwaukee. in all four cities the Democrats stopped counting, so they could find out how many votes they had to create. And they all fought to keep Trump campaign observers from monitoring what they did.

So, what's Trump's goal? Trump's goal is to figure out how he can reverse the steal. Because no honest person can reasonably believe that the Democrats did NOT steal this election.

Because honest vote counters would not have acted the way the Democrat voter handlers in those four cites acted.

The people who are acting in bad faith are the ones trying to get Biden the "win".

Richard Dolan said...

"If you're fighting for what you believe is the truth, at what point do you lose your claim to a good motive and deserve it when the NYT reports it as fact that your motive was to subvert the election?"

Well, you were never a trial lawyer and so that might be why this sound like a question worth asking. Underdogs in litigation (that would be all defendants in criminal cases as well as most people suing the government) don't lose a 'claim to a good motive' even if their case is dismissed. Every convicted criminal later exonerated can tell you about that. And filing a lawsuit isn't 'subvert[ing]' anything -- it's what law-abiding people do every day, including Democrats -- even if the claim ultimately can't be proven or is dismissed as legally meritless under existing precedent. Take the usual 'demanding ID is an exercise in voter suppression' claim, just to pick an example. And who today could possibly even entertain the idea that when the NYT publishes an article about Trump (or Biden or Obama or ...) and his motives, what they choose to print has anything to do with 'facts'?

Achilles said...

Chuck said...


We both know the answer with Trump. The answer is, "Never." Trump will play out the "I wuz robbed" narrative as long as it suits him which is probably as long as he lives. And many of his wounded, warped, ignorant base will follow his lead. National trust and confidence in American elections will suffer. For no good reason. Only to assuage Trump's wounded ego. And to create a political pocket for more Trump candidacies.

The confidence in elections died when democrats kicked republicans out of poll counting stations.

We will never trust elections where democrats are counting votes.

You don't follow the laws we agreed to then fuck you.

Achilles said...

And now a majority of Americans believe the election was stolen.

So none of your media propaganda works anymore.

Have fun in your low trust society with Biden installing all of his warmonger corporate toadies.

Have a nice day.

Jim at said...

At what point do you lose your claim to a good motive? He lost it after the Ukraine call.

You mean the Ukraine call where he was absolutely correct? The one where he asked to have some people look into Biden's corruption? The proof of said corruption that was found on someone's laptop?

That Ukraine call?

Chuck said...

Achilles said...
And now a majority of Americans believe the election was stolen.

So none of your media propaganda works anymore.

Have fun in your low trust society with Biden installing all of his warmonger corporate toadies.

Have a nice day.


This is pretty great for Democrats hoping to get to 50 seats via the Georgia runoffs.

Let TrumpWorld marinate in its own rage over a "stolen" election. Let Trump flunkies like Roger Stone ask supporters in Georgia to sit out the election to protest the "stolen" vote.

I know I won't be happy with a Democratic Senate majority. But I'd get considerable personal pleasure out of seeing Trumpism blow two elections in the space of two months. I'd be even happier, just to see a cracker like "KAmala, KaMAla, KaMALA-MALA-MALA" Perdue go down, and a stupid placeholder like Loeffler be defeated.

320Busdriver said...

Corruptocrat Biden is an illegitimate figurehead. Hopefully he will be held to account for selling access to the office of VP in order to enrich his disgusting family of grifters. The basement is a good place for him.

Big Mike said...

No Justice, No Peace.

NOW you’re talking.

Static Ping said...

Mail in elections are by their very nature corrupt. They are far too easy to cheat, and far too easy to get away with the cheating. Everyone knows this and at one time everyone admitted it as obvious. It is only now that Democrats believe they have an advantage with this format and do not care for the consequences that anyone pretends otherwise.

To say this was a fair election is an exercise in dishonesty.

Anyone who tells you this was a fair election has outed themselves as liars. Treat them appropriately.

Big Mike said...

Biden is asking for transition money, Chuck.

Tell him to get it from Mark Zuckerberg, Jack Dorsey, Sergei Brin, Jeff Bezos, Tom Steyer, and George Sros.

320Busdriver said...

Lin Wood is making a lot of noise in Ga. He has uncovered something, has video of mass shredding. Keeping powder dry.

readering said...

"Mail in elections are by their very nature corrupt."

This is basically the Trumpist argument, which is why it was forecasted way in advance that Trump would not accept the results.

But he hurt his chances of winning with this argument, and I predict that in four years Republicans will be doing everything possible to get folks to mail in their ballots--as many, even the Trump family, did in some places this year.

I voted in person because I did not trust the USPS. But the campaign against mail-in voting during a pandemic was awful. Many elderly, my mom included, were in lockdown during the election.

Rusty said...

Greg The Class Traitor said...
"Here, Chuck, let me explain things so that even someone as fundamentally stupid as you can understand:"
Greg. he was probably in on it.

Qwinn said...

Mail in elections ARE by their very nature corrupt because they utterly eliminate the single most important aspect of legitimate voting systems, the chain of custody of the ballot.

A mail in ballot's chain of custody ends at the mailbox.

Without a chain of custody of the ballot, the potential for fraud is infinite.

There are no exceptions.

Michael K said...

Many elderly, my mom included, were in lockdown during the election.

Try not to sound so stupid. She could request an absentee ballot but that requires a valid address and a signature that matches the one sent in. THAT is not what Trump referred to and which proved him (and me) right. The random "mail in " ballots addressed to years old voter rolls were the vehicle of half the fraud.

Michael K said...

I somehow can't imagine SEALs doing much to help Biden. Not those SEALS anyway. They may be different now.

John Henry


All SEALS are enlisted. Officers cannot stay in SEALs. It's the the generals that are pussies. Mattis must have had a good PR person, like Petraeous.

Chuck said...

Michael K said...
...
...
...The random "mail in " ballots addressed to years old voter rolls were the vehicle of half the fraud.


And in what states did that occur? Not Michigan. Not Pennsylvania. Not Georgia. Those states all had simple absentee voter ballots, which Republicans approved and which Trump said were just fine, as he himself had been an absentee voter.

(I'll help you. There are long-standing vote-by-mail laws in Oregon, Colorado and Utah, to name some of the few. By state law. There were some pandemic-related universal mail-in ballots in places like California and Nevada, per executive order. In none of the critical swing states, save for Nevada, was there any universal mail-in balloting.)

Chuck said...

Qwinn said...
Mail in elections ARE by their very nature corrupt because they utterly eliminate the single most important aspect of legitimate voting systems, the chain of custody of the ballot.

A mail in ballot's chain of custody ends at the mailbox.

Without a chain of custody of the ballot, the potential for fraud is infinite.

There are no exceptions.


The Michigan GOP sent out mailers to all of its members on the absentee voter lists urging them to return their absentee ballots. I got some of those mailers. They included quotes from President Trump expressing his approval of absentee voting.

Paco Wové said...

"Many elderly, my mom included, were in lockdown during the election."

Sorry to hear your mom's in prison. I hope the guards treat her nice!

readering said...

"She could request an absentee ballot but that requires a valid address and a signature that matches the one sent in."

She moved in 2019, and her ballot was mailed to her new address. You are just pissed that it was made easier to vote and so there were record votes on both sides, but fewer on your side.

readering said...

Never figured out why so many AA commenters unable to control their urge to pepper their comments with ad hominems like stupid. Maybe it had an effect on some a decade ago, but with me after all these years? Just makes the commenter look small.

Birkel said...

Given it is the party you support that wants your mother to be alone, I hope she dies quickly with little suffering and you cannot attend her funeral.

I care.

Michael K said...


Blogger readering said...
"She could request an absentee ballot but that requires a valid address and a signature that matches the one sent in."

She moved in 2019, and her ballot was mailed to her new address. You are just pissed that it was made easier to vote and so there were record votes on both sides, but fewer on your side.


So she didn't request one? That's how the fraud was done. Well, half of it. When those five cities realized they needed landslide vote fraud numbers, they just went to plan #2, Dominion was there to help us on the way to Venezuela

Michael K said...

Blogger readering said...
Never figured out why so many AA commenters unable to control their urge to pepper their comments with ad hominems like stupid.


Quite a bit of stupid around here. Which term would you prefer? "Retarded" is out. Maybe "Democrat" as a synonym for "stupid" would work.

Readering said...

Keep getting smaller.

Readering said...

She didn't. At 88 why should she?

But, hey, if you believe the Dominion VZ story your beef is not with mail-in.

Michael K said...

But, hey, if you believe the Dominion VZ story your beef is not with mail-in.

I said half of the fraud. Dominion was the backup plan.

More Blogger bullshit.

Birkel said...

It makes my heart sing to know readering's mother will be alone on Thanksgiving.
Dictator Newsom commands it.

We must all follow the government's edicts.
She deserves to die alone.
For the State.

readering said...

Not CA. But you are correct about being confined to her elder care facility. Where most voted for Trump, as best she can tell, and benefitted from automatic mailing of ballots. She would not travel even if she could. She fears covid and turned against the guy she voted for in '16 over it.

Birkel said...

She voted for Chairman Xi?

Michael K said...

(I'll help you. There are long-standing vote-by-mail laws in Oregon, Colorado and Utah, to name some of the few. By state law.

There are 9 states but I was under the impression that the mass mail-ballots were sent out to all states.

Readering said...

Too bad Xi was not on the ballot in 16 to siphon 80,000 Trump votes.

Chuck said...

Michael K said...
(I'll help you. There are long-standing vote-by-mail laws in Oregon, Colorado and Utah, to name some of the few. By state law.

There are 9 states but I was under the impression that the mass mail-ballots were sent out to all states.


And you would be wrong in your impression. Including Arizona, where you could "vote by mail" IF you formally requested a ballot. A/K/A "absentee voting," which the whole Trump family endorsed as something they do.

Chuck said...

Arizona:

https://www.vote.org/arizona/

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Greg The Class Traitor said...

readering said...
You are just pissed that it was made easier to vote

No, we are pissed that they made it easier for people to steal votes.

you moved? Ok, YOU are going to have to do some work to get your new ballot. If it's important to you, you'll do it. If it isn't, it's no loss that you don't vote.

I do what's necessary so that I can vote. If you get to vote illegally, my vote is stolen. And there's nothing I can do about it.

So, no, only a worthless pile of garbage wants election law changes that make vote fraud easier