November 13, 2020
"'He knows it’s over,' one adviser said. But instead of conceding, they said, he is floating one improbable scenario after another for staying in office..."
"... while he contemplates his uncertain post-presidency future.
There is no grand strategy at play, according to interviews with a half-dozen advisers and people close to the president. Mr. Trump is simply trying to survive from one news cycle to the next, seeing how far he can push his case against his defeat and ensure the continued support of his Republican base. By dominating the story of his exit from the White House, he hopes to keep his millions of supporters energized and engaged for whatever comes next.... As a next step, Mr. Trump is talking seriously about announcing that he is planning to run again in 2024, aware that whether he actually does it or not, it will freeze an already-crowded field of possible Republican candidates... His mood is often bleak, advisers say, though he is not raising his voice in anger, despite the impression left by his tweets, which are often in capital letters.... Advisers have nudged the president to stop talking about 'fraud' because that has legal implications that his team has not been able to back up. So Mr. Trump has taken to pronouncing the election 'rigged'...."
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195 comments:
If you haven't learned by now there's a good reason Trump hasn't listened to advisors.
...and the 'no evidence of fraud' bullshit sounds like year 1 of the Russian collusion hoax and its coming from the same people.
How much BS have they published about Trump in the last 4 years? Why should I believe the NYT this time?
Maggie Haberman (NYT)
Nuff said. Gotta be the objective truth, right?
You can trust the NYT!
Saw Trump golfing on Saturday. Looked pretty good to me. He was very nice to the bridal party he ran into.
This is just fantasy in the NYT.
If you have a hard time with the words 'voter fraud' try starting with 'Ignoring Election Law'. There's plenty of evidence that happened in PA.
As always, do your own homework
No one believes Maggie and the NYT.
Just watch. Trump's lawyers will win this in the states.
If this fraudulent election is allowed to stand, we are totally screwed.
Side note. During the Civil War George McCellan tried to steal the election via mail-in ballots and soldiers. They criminals were caught and got life sentences.
"'He knows it’s over,' one adviser said. But instead of conceding, they said, he is floating one improbable scenario after another for staying in office..."
......and then Trump ran out onto the White House lawn to attack Jussie Smollett while screaming "this is Trump-MAGA sandwich country!!".....according to NYT sources who are close to the Trump Administration but are actually Smart TV salespersons at a DC Best Buy.
The NYT ladies and gentlemen.
I miss the nonstop Trump/Putin lies.
Why are you telling us this, Althouse? I don't mean, stop telling me this, I mean, what is your rationale for sharing this information? What purpose does it serve for you? To show how great your favorite media source is?
God Ann.
You have to know this is just garbage foisted up for stupid people.
Go read some actual news and stop being dumb.
We posted numerous links to actual court filings yesterday so you didn't have to wade through anything that might be scary to you.
Even Howard realized Democrats and their media were totally full of shit last night.
You cannot be dumber than Howard.
NYT, so . . . lies, then.
When over a hundred people testify that poll observers were kicked out of polls in Pennsylvania during a period where 650000 "ballots" were counted during this time that no GOP poll observers were present and turned a 300000 vote lead for Trump into a 100000 vote lead for Biden Ann still pretends there is no evidence of voter fraud.
Cruelly Neutral = stupid LARPing.
We should believe the NYT's reporting why?
The NYT new amended style section: "Use lots of anonymous sources!"
"He's knows it's over" Sounds like mind reading.
Is this anything like Hillary's infamous "walks in the woods" after her embarrassing defeat in 2016?
ah yes, another "advisor" who of course remains nameless because it's a fictional character.
Another unnamed anonymous member of the Trump administration.
Who so far have a track record of 0% accuracy.
To be honest, I'm assuming the worst which is the he loses. That said, I hope he fights to the very last, burns down everything he can when he leaves (declassify it all) and spends the next four years going after the GOP establishment that was too chickenshit to back him up when it was necessary.
"He'll freeze out a crowded field!" Half of those candidates should never be nominated, because they are part of the establishment wing that spent four years sabotaging him. There's talk about how we need "Trumpism without Trump" which is bullshit. You don't get Trumpism with Mitt Romney.
You need to quit blogging these lying NYT articles about "white house sources familiar with the situation" telling us what Trump feels, thinks, and does. They've been shown to be distorted or completely false time and time again.
This reporter, and the Press in general, lied about Trump-Russia for THREE Years. Giving each other Pulitzer Prizes for putting out fake news. "The walls are closing in". "Sources in Mueller's team tell us Trump is finished". "Aides worry about Trump and his depression over Mueller's investigation" etc. etc.
Whether Trump ultimately prevails or not, they will continue to lie about him till the end.
The fraud allegations are farfetched. BUT, you can certainly make a very credible argument that the election was rigged. For example, the Democrats attacked the ballot access for the Greens--who earned 30,000 some votes in Wisconsin in 2016 (and paid millions for HRC's stupid recount as a kicker). Now, those 30,000 voters (arguably) no longer had their first choice selection leaving them nothing but Biden. The Dems also rigged the vote by extending the early and mail-in voting deadlines, using COVID as a pretext. While it may make sense that more people vote by mail, it does not follow that people need more time to vote. Why would that be true, did it take anyone more time to vote because of COVID? Under the surface, the Dems want more time for mail-in/early voting because it gives them more time to do GOTV, which means ballot harvesting.
But to be fair--the GOP has its own strategies to rig elections in its favor--namely redistricting.
Halberman. NYT. Nothing worth one's time.
Only a month ago, "White House aides" were telling the NYT's that Trump's CV-19 was "much worse than officially stated" and "Doctors say its much worse than officially reported" etc. Every conflict and crisis during Trump's presidency has had the NYT/WaPo reporting that "White house aides" were "worried" "upset" "concerned" "Deeply Divided" over Trump's actions and behavior and actions. FAKE, FAKE, FAKE.
Sometimes Ann is the FOX of blogs.
Who are the advisors? We are really supposed to believe he has “loyal” advisers that speak to Trump’s thoughts and give them to Maggie Haberman at the NYTs? Give me a break. Trump is not fighting for HIS PRESIDENCY. He is fighting for his supporters who KNOW this election was rigged. We’ve known all year as Blue State governors locked down their citizens and pushed absentee votes, and changed voting laws at the last minute. He promised us he’d fight. So he will.
Citizens of Madison can never understand that.
I do expect now for an extended period of time, after yesterday’s Dominion voting blank stare, we will see a double down at the Althouse blog that the NYTs, Wash Post, and Axios are actually credible sources. It’s like pretending plywood is an artistic canvas.
wishcasting
130,000 votes show up for Biden at about 4:30 a.m. Nothing fraudulent about that!
The Fake News is ignoring the real evidence and the statistical evidence. The whole mail-in voting thing was a way to steal the election and the Dems planned it that way.
I am so sick and tired of the 5 years of lies from people like her. Why anybody still reads or listens to the liars is beyond me. They need to lose their jobs. If we are to have a media that we can trust again....we must all fight against the hate and lies they have been spewing for the ages...and start over again. I don't see it happening any time soon.
The soviets knew pravda was fake, but they were forced to acknowledge it, americans dont have that excuse
If the advisors are unnamed then we cannot judge the veracity of what they say.
I for one appreciate these posts. I do not subscribe to the NYT, or any news outlet, and so would not be aware of these articles and thought pieces. This gives me a view into the thinking and mind of the anti-Trump press crowd. It seems to me they just make this shit up to support their anti-Trump narrative. If there is any news value at all to this, that is it.
1) I expect that when all is said and done, Joe Biden will be sworn in on Jan 20, 2021
2) Dialing back the twitter rants about fraud is a good thing
3) I have no idea what Trump's lawyers have up their sleeves
4) Maggie Haberman doesn't either
Maggie Haberman and NYT asshoes
To take Maggie Haberman at her word is a joke. But it’s understandable. We’ve seen the buying into COVID fear as it permeates communities like Madison. The summer’s destruction had to have and affect as well. Fear makes people believe anything. Controls even the most educated mind. A certain percentage of the population just wants to give up for self-preservation. There are pensions to collect. Any threat of a truthful outcome of this election would set Madison ablaze.
Acceptance is a slow road.
Some day the Trump devotees will realize that the real silent voter in this election voted Republican downticket but couldn't stomach voting for Trump.
That clearly isn't today. They seem to be stuck on the early phases of grief.
Advisers have nudged the president to stop talking about 'fraud' because that has legal implications that his team has not been able to back up. So Mr. Trump has taken to pronouncing the election 'rigged'...."
Ukraine's Election: Next Steps
Ambassador John Tefft, Deputy Assistant Secretary for European and Eurasian Affairs
Testimony Before the House International Relations Committee
Washington, DC, December 7, 2004
The following are examples of the most egregious, widely observed and reported examples of election-day FRAUD on November 21:
Illegal Use of Absentee Ballots:
Opposition Observers Ejected:
North Korean-Style Turnout in the East:
Mobile Ballot Box Fraud:
Computer Data Allegedly Altered To Favor Yanukovych:
Ah Maggie---what are you going to do when you won't have Trump to kick around anymore?
She's a cunning fabulist when it comes to matters Trump. But she should be able to reinvent herself as a praise machine for Sizzlin' Joe Biden--he of the intellectual fastball and all that.
D.D. Driver said...the GOP has its own strategies to rig elections in its favor--namely redistricting.
Redistricting is a very different kind of vote rigging, one which each party engages in with equal enthusiasm. And it doesn't apply to the presidential election.
The Republican's "strategy" for redistricting is winning state-level elections so that the control the districting process. Funnily enough, that's the Democrat's strategy too, they're just not as good at it.
I think Trump has become one of those characters in the movie The Sixth Sense who doesn't know he's dead.
Maybe he needs to focus less on remaining king and more on becoming the kingmaker for the GOP.
Trump should sign some executive orders that MAKE IT ILLEGAL FOR THE BIDEN FAMILY TO USE THEIR POWER TO STUFF WASHED TAX PAYER MONEY THRU INTERNATIONAL SOURCES INTO BIDEN FAMILY COFFERS.
All caps for Trump!
President Trump is going to use every arrow in his quiver. Why not? It’s not like they’re going to like him more if he quits.
Wasn't this story in Axios just a few days ago? I wonder if the sources are the same?
I have a friend whose daughter helped run PA for the Hillary in 2016. When Team Hillary was considering a recount in PA, she told the national team that she knew where every vote in Philadelphia for Hillary was, and in the event there were 35,000 Hillary votes she couldn't account for. They just appeared.
I have no doubt that there were manufactured votes for Biden in PA in 2020. How many?
Maggie, you need to learn to code.
That's funny right there. The need to believe is strong at the NYT. Anonymous strikes yet again. Truth? We don't need no stinkin' truth.
The NYT culture is dictated by people with social activist degrees. After the $50K a year indoctrination they have two career choices. Journalism or Starbucks. Spit in the customer's coffee or spit in America's eye.
On a deeper level one can't help but feel a tinge of pity for the poor misguided souls. Or not.
“ The fraud allegations are farfetched. BUT, you can certainly make a very credible argument that the election was rigged.”
Ignoring:
“If you have a hard time with the words 'voter fraud' try starting with 'Ignoring Election Law'. There's plenty of evidence that happened in PA.”
Why exactly are they far fetched? Everyone, presumably including you, know that big city Dems routinely pad their totals through voter fraud, and have done so for probably better than a century. LBJ helped stuff ballot boxes in one of his early elections, and JFK’s father complained about having bought too many votes in Chicago, in 1960. Republicans know that they have to win by more than the level of De cheat8ng in order to win. The difference this time is that the election fraud in several of these states was not at the usual levels but rather very possibly at industrial levels, many hundreds of thousands of votes manufactured in the middle of the night in multiple big Dem cities in swing states.
One of the common ways that it appears that election laws were violated is that Republican poll workers and the like were actively prevented from watching the counting process nearly as closely as the law allows. Why would that happen? Close observation by all sides of the ballot counting process is for fraud prevention. Preventing it thus strongly suggests that fraud was being perpetuated and illegal votes were being counted. I am open to other explanations, but for much of the country, that is the most logical explanation, esp when the vote totals for the two parties swung so drastically in the Dems’ favor during and right after it happened.
It is clear that here in PA, members of both the executive and judicial branches of the state government have purported to alter the requirements of the Pennsylvania Election Code without any action by the legislature. In and of itself, this is election fraud.
Maggie Haberman got a Pulitzer Price for Russian Collusion Reporting, that was later to be proven false.
And I should trust her now because?
NYT quotes "anonymous sources" again. I have an anonymous source that tells me that the NYT anonymous sources don't exist.
P.S. - I've finally learned how to spell "anonymous" without having to look it up thanks to the NYT & WaPoo.
RESIST! Biden will be an illegitimate president for four years! We'll call Biden "His Fraudulence" for four years. Trump 2024! America Fuck Ya!
Can we get an honest read on the sheer volume of anonymously sourced articles which have been proven wrong the last 4 years in particular? From "tier 1" news outlets?
I mean this is ludricrous. And the ever growing convoluted way of naming why we should believe an anonymous source - "Advisor", "Official close to the matter", "People involved in discussions", etc. - is a sheer indicator of how much anonymous sources have been overplayed.
I would love an independent group who looked at front page stories with the main points sourced by anonymous folks and whether or not they proved MOSTLY RIGHT or MOSTLY WRONG in hindsight. Say, 2016-2018.
The word misinformation gets tossed around alot. But when front page stories, anonymously sourced, are >50% WRONG in hindsight, then misinformation is the business those outlets conduct.
If Trump doesn’t concede then it goes to the House where Red states outnumber Blue. It has happened before. Here Van Jones has a premonition.
https://youtu.be/WZWRhLW7Y8w
It’s easy to trigger the Trumpists at the Althouse blog, link to a NYT, WaPo or any news source not in the acceptable Trumpist new sources, which seem to be shrinking. After Trump is out of Office he’ll have to form his own news network that he now knows his followers will fall in line behind. He will rule his kingdom with no dissenting voices, at least not within his empire. The bigger and badder the conspiracy theories the better they’ll like it and the more control he’ll have over them. What could be better than the entertainment, mystery and thrills of TrumpTV?
Do you people have any idea of how you sound to the rest of America and the world? More bizarre by the day, but it’s apparent that within your strange world that’s a driving force.
"the GOP has its own strategies to rig elections in its favor--namely redistricting."
Have you looked at Illinois lately? The Demmies gerrymandered it so badly, the GOP lost five congressional seats. For example, they moved 10,000 GOP voters out of the 10th District into the 9th District, and moved 25,000 Demmies in to the 10th. Result: both districts are locked into the Democrat column.
Any time a NYT or WaPo writer talks about inside Republican sources, you know that they are just making shit up.
That has been going on well before Trump was on the scene.
Ballots were created and stuffed. When you cannot find legal chain of owhership of the ballot - as designed - you cannot find the cheating.
"Side note. During the Civil War George McCellan tried to steal the election via mail-in ballots and soldiers. They criminals were caught and got life sentences."
If we can't have public hangings, life sentences would have to do.
The times printed what turned out to be dezinforma, it refused to publish what was verifiable info that compromised a presidential candidate entire family.
At this moment four years ago, the NYT was wailing about the popular vote v the Electoral College.
It's amazing how many liberals are able to read Trump's mind, isn't it? They must have a hundred secret Motive-O-Meters stashed somewhere that they lend out to responsible individuals.
"He knows it's over" implies that it is over. It's not. It's not over until it's over, and even then it isn't over.
If there's no legal chain of custody, the ballots are fraudulent. Throw them out.
"Everyone, presumably including you, know that big city Dems routinely pad their totals through voter fraud, and have done so for probably better than a century."
I have spent a number of years doing election observing at central count in MKE. That's how I know the fraud theories are bullshit. Life experience.
Do you people have any idea of how you sound to the rest of America and the world?
To the dead Biden voters? They can't hear. To the thousands of mail in ballots that were faked ? No ears. To the ballots that were scanned multiple times in Michigan?
The left, like you, has had no appetite for truth since 2015. Tell us the one about the Russia hoax again.
Inga, at least you have DD Driver to agree with you.
If you get done with your NYT's tongue baths here are a few suggestions of sites that actually go out and report things:
https://www.dailywire.com/
https://www.theepochtimes.com/
https://thefederalist.com/
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/
https://www.oann.com/
https://www.newsmax.com/
More Maggie Haberman. And it’s about “the news cycle.” Really? That’s all Trump has to think about?
I read an article, maybe in The Federalist, detailing 10 things Trump could do to blow up the Biden transition. If he can’t turn this around, I hope he has a list like that.
I also hope he gets hold of the AOC hit list and pardons everyone on it including his family and himself.
Blogger ELC said...
"It is clear that here in PA, members of both the executive and judicial branches of the state government have purported to alter the requirements of the Pennsylvania Election Code without any action by the legislature. In and of itself, this is election fraud."
You would have to be a former law professor to pretend not to understand this.
You need a new tag: Althouse is gullible.
It’s tough to see how officials disregarding election law for the sole purpose of surreptitiously influencing the results is not, among more specific things, a form of fraud.
Do you people have any idea of how you sound to the rest of America and the world?
Inga's worried about what the neighbors will think. Wait 'til they get a load of Joe and Kamala!
Is it as simple as just not conceding? That’s how Trump wins this as I see it. Maybe why you can’t find a perking spot at the range.
"He knows it's over"
Depends on what the meaning of "it" is.
I think he probably knows the actual election is over. The outcome is so close to 100% assured that there's no real fighting to win left... only fighting for other purposes — to torment his opponents, to fulfill his hero's narrative, to force the media to talk about him as a fighter rather than a loser, to keep the base energized....
Never count me out.
Trump called Byron York and gave him a run down.
No matter how this turns out we will never forget that GOP poll observers were barred from observing counts for days in Pennsylvania.
You do not do that unless you are cheating.
Period.
Joe Biden will never be accepted.
Ann Althouse said...
"He knows it's over"
Depends on what the meaning of "it" is.
I think he probably knows the actual election is over. The outcome is so close to 100% assured that there's no real fighting to win left... only fighting for other purposes — to torment his opponents, to fulfill his hero's narrative, to force the media to talk about him as a fighter rather than a loser, to keep the base energized....
Never mind.
You really are just as smart as the rest of the people that read and believe the NYT's.
I want him to (a) keep pushing investigation into voter fraud: Enough already. I want this settled as far as it can be settled, even if Joe Biden becomes president. (b) be the most effective lame duck president in history. Firing a lot of people who needed firing all along but he needed to work with them - is a good start. So is leaving Afghanistan - just do it and let them complain afterwards. So is declassifying Russiagate and firing anyone who tries to stop him. So is pardoning Snowden and (if his case isn't dismissed) Flynn.
Don't issue executive orders. Do things that are impossible to undo.
Dave Begley said...
No one believes Maggie and the NYT.
Just watch. Trump's lawyers will win this in the states.
Dave Begley, this is fantastic news to me! To know that you are still hanging in there with "Trump victory 2020."
So let's have a bet on whether "Trump's lawyers will win this in the states." I've got $5 right now with John Henry (which I will be donating to the Althouse blog when I win); a man of your substance ought to be able to go for a bottle of spirits of the winner's choosing.
Are we on?
Does the "advisor" have a name?
Otherwise, I don't believe any "quote" from any anonymous person as reported by the NYTimes.
In fact, the truth is more likely to be the exact opposite of whatever they write.
Why are Demtards so angry? Trump is just taking Hillary Clinton's advice, don't concede at any cost.
Unnamed sources. Not worth examining.
undercutting broad public faith in American electoral processes
You shouldn't have faith in something that is so obviously crooked.
"Just watch. Trump's lawyers will win this in the states."
Don't count on it.
"If this fraudulent election is allowed to stand, we are totally screwed."
We are screwed either way, whether (the not-gonna-happen happens and) Trump is vindicated and announced the winner, or if, as is certain, Biden assumes office on Inauguration Day in January.
They are both deplorable wretches, and this has been our "choice" over many years...a choice between deplorable candidates, engineered to ensure that, whoever wins, the powers that run this country--the monied interests--will continue having their way.
As others have point out: "News" from "unnamed sources" is garbage.
especially when those "unnamed sources" are saying exactly what the "reporter" wants them to say
D.D. Driver said...
But to be fair--the GOP has its own strategies to rig elections in its favor--namely redistricting.
You really do like doubling down on stupid, don't you?
1: Redistricting doesn't affect Presidential elections, and doesn't affect Senate races
2: The Dems had 3 pickups this year. Two of them were in NC, because off Democrat favoring redistricting. CA and IL both have heavily Dem favoring redistricting.
Redistricting is what everyone does when they have the power.
Vote fraud is what the Democrat do, because the press will cover for them
"RESIST! Biden will be an illegitimate president for four years! We'll call Biden "His Fraudulence" for four years. Trump 2024! America Fuck Ya!"
Burn, man! That'll show 'im!
Yeah, Chuck, because Democrats always work so very hard to ensure "smooth transitions" when Republicans take over. You know, aside from prying all the Ws off the keyboards and stealing the silverware, preventing W from filling his cabinet even AFTER the inauguration so we were ill prepared for 9/11, and cooking up a fake dossier so you could fap yourself to sleep with every "the walls are closing in!" fake news report for 3 years.
As always, go fuck yourself.
If we have learned anything over the past four years, it is that stories from anonymous sources are utterly useless without additional evidence to support them. On the "fool me once" scale, we are at least in four digit territory at this point. Of course, the New York Times seems to be immune to learning, or, more likely, prefer their plausible deniability dishonesty.
Mail-in voting is by its very nature corrupt. At one time this statement was non-controversial and non-partisan. There are simply too many ways - easy ways - to undermine the vote unless there are very stringent safeguards. It is notable that those safeguards were typically not present or, at least in the case of Pennsylvania, intentionally subverted. This election was, by its very nature, unfair before a single vote was cast. Developments since then have made it only more obvious that significant vote fraud was involved, not to mention other blatant shenanigans meant to alter the election like now obvious suppression polling and politically biased election calls while polls were still open.
Claire Woodall-Vogg, Director of the Milwaukee Election Commission, "temporarily" lost a flash drive with absentee ballots on it.
Law Enforcement officials and escorts were the source of the story.
Days later Woodall-Vogg wrote a letter admitting the chain of custody was broken, but that's OK.
Nothing to see here.
Go read the NYT's like the drooling idiots.
Ann Althouse said...
The outcome is so close to 100% assured that there's no real fighting to win left... only fighting for other purposes — to torment his opponents, to fulfill his hero's narrative, to force the media to talk about him as a fighter rather than a loser, to keep the base energized....
Exactly!
Trump = Goldberg.
You should have warned us early on that this was the NYT. I wasted my time reading the whole thing. I don’t don’t believe a single word those people say.
You should have warned us early on that this was the NYT. I wasted my time reading the whole thing. I don’t don’t believe a single word those people say.
I find it quite normal that people like Inga and DD Driver think an election consisting of mail in ballots counted after kicking GOP poll observers out and stored on thumb drives is "The most secure election in US history."
What is not normal is people like Ann who pretend to be skeptical and neutral being stupid enough to accept that.
Or is it not normal?
Sources also say that Trump has been wandering the White House asking everyone he passes, "Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?"
If there is one thing I have learned from a trump presidency, it is that the democrat media, NYT/WashPost etc. are full of shit.
They are both deplorable wretches, and this has been our "choice" over many years.
"If only Comrade Stalin were alive....."
I'll only believe it if it came from Miles whatsisname.
If the allegations are true that Republican poll watchers were denied access or required to observe at a distance that made any meaningful oversight impossible, then the only remedy is to disallow all the ballots counted during that time period.
That is a hill that few courts will have the courage to climb. It will require 24/7 protection for any judge and his family that makes such a call.
But if they aren't disallowed, the strategy for future elections is pretty clear. Kick out the opposing party, insert any number of invalid ballots and bingo, you've got a win. At that point, both parties cheat and the bigger cheater wins.
The weak link in any vote by mail system is when the ballots are initially accepted as valid. Once a ballot is accepted, it is very difficult to identify. The methods described in various lawsuits that allowed invalid ballots to be accepted is very simple.
The only defense is matching the signature on the outside envelope to the signature on file.
According to a county election board official, (in a county where there are 49,000 eligible voters), they physically match the signature on the outside envelope to a signature on file-- whether it's the voter registration card or dept. of licensing signature. But even at that point there is no one verifying the signature match. (this is in a state that has had vote by mail for 12 years). The official said there is a livestream video during the process, but the livestream doesn't give enough detail to guarantee that only ballots with matching signatures are accepted.
Basically we are trusting the integrity of people doing that. All ballots that are mailed are barcoded on the outside envelope, so if the ballot is rejected, the voter has an opportunity to correct why it was rejected.
But once the envelope is opened and the ballot is accepted, there is no longer any connection to the voter, as you would expect. Voting is secret.
So, if in the states where allegations of illegal ballots being accepted, there is really no way to verify at this point the ballots are indeed illegal.
And as described in several lawsuites, signatures weren't required to match, ballots with no signatures had random names added, or in some cases stacks of ballots were just added to the accepted "pile".
You can count the ballots over and over and you won't get a different result at that point.
At this point, the only way this fraud (the integrity of this and future elections) can be protected is to throw out all ballots that were accepted without verification by poll watchers.
https://greatlakesjc.org/wp-content/uploads/Complaint-Costantino-FINAL-With-Exhibits.pdf?x44644
Thank God Maggie Haberman has anonymous advisers to tell her what Trump is thinking. I can now dismiss the tidal wave red flags coming at us almost hourly, not to mention outright fraud turned up daily.
Nothing to see here. Get ready to take your medicine.
BrianE said...
If the allegations are true that Republican poll watchers were denied access or required to observe at a distance that made any meaningful oversight impossible, then the only remedy is to disallow all the ballots counted during that time period.
As the law in every State states.
"Some day the Trump devotees will realize that the real silent voter in this election voted Republican downticket but couldn't stomach voting for Trump."
But only in certain select places, like PA and WI.
A somewhat random sample of vote totals in 2 red states and one blue where Senate Races were held revealed: Tennessee--Trump got 1,849K votes, Senate Candidate Bill Hagerty 1,827K. Arkansas, Trump 757K, Tom Cotton 790K. Oregon--Trump 928K, (losing) Republican Senate candidate Jo Rae Perkins 885K.
Tom Cotton is a very popular guy (except in the NYT), Hagarty and Perkins perhaps not so much; in any event if your BS is not BS you would have some actual data to back up your claim.
The NYT is filled with bullshit.
But Trump knows he lost. He’s not going to flip a state in the recounts.
Trump is not delusional.
I find it quite normal that people like Inga and DD Driver think an election consisting of mail in ballots counted after kicking GOP poll observers out and stored on thumb drives is "The most secure election in US history."
Unless I see video of a Russian pee tape: it didn't happen. You can repeat over and over and over how poll workers were kicked out. When it's proven in court, I'll believe it. The videos that I have seen, have all show count rooms teeming with poll watchers. I will believe my own lying eyes on this one. I don't have a dog in this race.
You want to believe everything you read on the internet, have at it. I'll wait and see. I am a skeptic. I am not a denier. The type of fraud that everyone is alleging is so ridiculously easy to prove--if it happened. I am also highly skeptical that the idiots that nominated Joe Biden and HRC are also the masterminds that pulled off Ocean's 11 style heist. LOL. I'm just not buying it guys. I'm 100% persuadable, I just haven't been persuaded.
I voted for Trump, but , frankly, this stopped being about Trump last week. The media can scream all it wants that there is nothing to find and that only bad actors want to investigate. The vote counting in several states looks suspicious. The statistical analyses look questionable. There seem to be a not insignificant number of people who have come forward to allege they witnessed fraud taking place. I want this stuff examined thoroughly by people and groups with careful bipartisan oversight. If there are legitimate explanations for all the anomalies uncovered, explain that. If there are problems, I want to know. It seems to me that if democrats had nothing to hide and believed they genuinely won fair and square, they'd be telling Trump to knock himself out and do all they could to prove the legitimacy of the election. The fact that all the interested parties keep saying that no one is going to find any fraud, so we shouldn't even look is ridiculous. Prove it, dammit. This is a lot more important than who won this particular election. It's not about Trump anymore, it's about every election we have going forward.
"to keep his base energized" ...
How about to keep his base calm? All the Althouse possibilities have Trump acting petty. Look at convos here. A peaceful transition depends on us knowing that Trump fought along every avenue. Let the losers grieve and feel like they left it all on the field.
Maybe the NYT wants civil war.
Another one bites the dust.
Trump campaign drops ‘Sharpiegate’ lawsuit in Arizona, saying not enough votes were at stake.
The fact that all the interested parties keep saying that no one is going to find any fraud, so we shouldn't even look is ridiculous.
I'm not sure who is saying this. Personally, I want Trump to pull out all the legal stops. Leave no stone unturned. And, if he can't do it, or he refuses to try, do you know why? Because it didn't happen. If he can't prove it in court, it did not happen.
NYT, Maggie Haberman, anonymous source. Just another scam.
Part I
The idea that mass fraud could happen in America is a difficult pill to swallow, and I don't blame Althouse for not jumping in with both feet. On one side we have the Trump supporters who want it to be true, on the other the trump detractors who don't want it to be true. In the middle are those who are not invested in the outcome and are not necessarily rooting for one or the other. In their case they are rooting for no fraud. Because to accept that fraud on a mass scale in what is supposed to be the shining light on a hill for democracy, is to lose a huge chunk of innocence. So I don't blame Althouse for falling on the side of believing in the system. Doesn't help when there are spurious claims of fraud. Each spurious claim undermines the less spurious.
For myself, I am torn between wanting there to be fraud because I can't believe that a person who doesn't even campaign, is not mentally fit and has significant history of lying and corruption can win the presidency. Trump was popular, Biden was meh. And yet Biden got more popular votes than Obama? On the other hand I don't want to believe that our voting system is banana republic. I want to believe we are a shining light on a hill.
As for fraud, it is very hard to pull of large scale fraud across multiple counties. Too many people have to be in on it, and it is too easy for someone to slip up. However, there is a lot of statistical data that is very suspicious. There are actions also that are suspicious. These should be investigated, and investigated thoroughly because the alternative is too damaging to the country.
One side might argue that contesting the election and accusing fraud is damaging, but on the other hand, once the claim is made, sweeping it under the rug is more damaging. Open up the process review and audit all suspicious data and demonstrate that it is valid. If you can't do that or won't do that, it will be impossible to placate those on the losing side. Even a moderately suspicious person like me will not accept the results we have without a clear investigation of the anomalies.
Part II
What bothers me most is that it is easy to create very verifiable and auditable voter processes. We should never be open to even a hint of tampering, but we don't seem to want to do that, and that suggests that people think there is a benefit to loose accounting. Every ballot should be traceable to a voter. Every ballot should be able to be hand counted. Every total should be logged and witnessed. Every transfer of ballots and vote results should have a verifiable chain of custody. Every vote tallied should be able to be duplicated by any other counter. This is not rocket science, this kind of process occurs all the time in America. Why can't we have it for our elections?
So, right now, any county in America should be able to defend the source of every ballot received, be able to defend why it was accepted or rejected, and allow spot checks with a voter to have them say "yes I voted." If they cannot do that, then you have damaged the cohesiveness of the transfer of power because there will always be people who doubt the outcome.
Finally, the problem here is that because there may be be a failure in the chain of custody for ballots, and failure of verification of counts, and the inability to verify every ballot as legitimate, this election will not be considered valid. The courts won't intervene on the issue of a lack of verifiability, only on proof of fraud, but once you separate the ballot from the source, you cannot prove fraud, so the fraud can exist but not be proven, and there are no consequences for violating chain of custody only rewards (a stolen election, let's say.)
My feeling is that the statistical anomalies will not be assuaged, it will be impossible to prove wide-spread fraud and the courts will decline to intervene on that basis. People will be disillusioned, cohesiveness will be eroded. Nothing will get fixed because there is value in ambiguity.
For myself, if I don't see an attempt at election integrity for this election and efforts to improve it for the future, I will disengage. I will know that my involvement is pointless because the system is not interested in election integrity, only in preserving the status quo. I will conclude that regular voters have no franchise. I will mourn my innocence.
If every ballot is traceable to a voter, it means the secret ballot is finished.
Let’s not give government that power.
Why are the changes put in place by the Help AmericaVote Act not enough?
Yelling Systemic Voter Fraud is the flip side of the Dems Systemic Voter Suppression.
Those are both just Bullshit Slogans
Based on D.D.Drivers statement, if you can't prove it in court it didn't happened, D.D. Is among the few who still believe OJ Simpson is innocent.
The evidence was strong against OJ.
The evidence of systemic fraud is not. It’s basically “here are several hundred incidents of voting fraud in State A, State B, State C, and State D.”
To get to the bottom of it would take years to go through the voter registration databases and cross check them against other voting registration databases, databases of dead, databases of known illegal aliens, and databases of drivers licenses.
There isn’t the money or manpower to do an investigation that massive.
As for fraud, it is very hard to pull of large scale fraud across multiple counties. Too many people have to be in on it,
Remember "Round up the usual suspects?"
That's why they picked those particular cities.
I wonder if leftist 'journalists' get as tired of making up anonymous sources as I do reading about them.
Methinks the harridan doth protest too much.
There isn’t the money or manpower to do an investigation that massive
I told you Democrats were good at this. I agree. It is too big and too blatant.
everything the left does is to make sure the left have power. Nothing Else matters to leftists. Power. power for money power & for power's sake.
Declassify everything and pardon everyone would be my plan if I were him. I’m hoping for a 269/269 time though. That would be the perfect cap to 2020.
It bears repeating that Trump's lawyers are not arguing "fraud" in court, because that requires proof of illegal intent.
Instead they argue that many state laws, and constitutional rights, were violated both before and during the elections, any maybe afterwards via illegal destruction of ballots..
Such actions don't require proof of illegal intent, only compelling evidence that they were illegally committed.
The PA complaint, for example, lays out many illegal actions by the PA Sec State and others, and offers lots of case law, state and federal, to prove their case. Their requested remedy is to nullify all ballots treated in an illegal fashion.
tim maguire said...
“1) I expect that when all is said and done, Joe Biden will be sworn in on Jan 20, 2021“
I expect that, rightly or wrongly, you’re right. Still, that doesn’t mean Trump shouldn’t fight it.
I will say this: after 4 (or 8) years of “Trump is (literally) Hitler,” the MSM will not be able to say anything about the next Republican candidate.
Yeah, I know—that assumes we’ll ever get a Republican candidate again.
Seems like you infected Maggie with your Joe Biden dream
Inga said...
Do you people have any idea of how you sound to the rest of America and the world?
To the rest of America: to over 72 mln of Trump supporters they sound reasonable and smart.
To the rest of the world: read Wince's post about Ukraine elections 2004 and read the link with what happened after. Ukranians know what stolen elections feel like.
Mexican president on Twitter said he knows what stolen elections feel like
Wince - thank you for a very informative link. The history of Ukraine since 2004 is a fascinating study in regards to current elections. 2014 Maidan Massacre snipers are still an unsolved mystery.
NYT sources who are close to the Trump Administration but are actually Smart TV salespersons at a DC Best Buy.
If they are so smart, why are they selling TVs at Best Buy?
John Henry
Once again there are very few people claiming widespread election fraud. In fact the opposite is true. It was extremely targeted as in only the cities of the very close swing states. Biden magically over performed in those cities, but only after counting resumed during the 3am miracle. Yet he under performed in urban areas everywhere else.
So the MSM shouting from the rooftops that it is not widespread is being intentionally deceptive. Trump won 9/10 swing counties that have historically predicted the winner but magically lost the very specific and Biden needed cities by Obama margins. If you say so.
Scrap that. WSJ article and analysis states 18/19 swing counties who have picked the correct winner since 1980 voted For Trump.
That is pretty astounding from a mathematical perspective.
My wife's hairdresser's cousin has a friend whose husband sells refrigerators in the DC Best Buy.
A guy in the TV department, Maggie's source, told him that Trump is so depressed that he spends all day in bed watching The Gorilla Channel.
Prove me wrong!
John Henry
There isn’t the money or manpower to do an investigation that massive.
Not true at all. Data is actually very easy to obtain and comparing lists is also rather trivial in the computer world. I do it all the time. It would take a few weeks and a couple dozen data people to filter the voting rolls. It might take a little longer to deal with about 5% of the "messy" data.
Maybe you were thinking people had to read dot-matrix printouts on fan-fold paper line by line?
I’m hoping for a 269/269 time though
IF Trump flips GA and PA from current projections...
If every ballot is traceable to a voter, it means the secret ballot is finished.
They do that now, most of the time. States with proper absentee voting log when a ballot was requested, when it was sent and when it was returned. So when a ballot is logged there is a voter record showing a ballot returned. Same thing at live voting. When a voter picks up a ballot, they log a ballot and log that the voter had a ballot. One voter, one ballot. If you get a box of ballots that did not get logged to a voter, then you will have more ballots than voters logged. A sign of fraud.
But Trump knows he lost. He’s not going to flip a state in the recounts.
Recounts aren't the only option- disqualifying ballots, sufficient law-breaking to justify legislative branch choosing their own delegates are still favorites. I don't think GOP has the stomach for it but we'll see...
A pretty good explanation of the stolen election.
Republicans tend to be more patriotic than Democrats, who denounce America as racist, fascist, sexist, imperialist. This patriotism makes Republicans impotent when it comes to political warfare that could adversely affect America’s reputation. The inclination of Republicans is for Trump to protect America’s reputation by conceding the election. Republicans fear the impact on America’s reputation of having it revealed that America’s other major party plotted to steal a presidental election.
Red state Americans, on the other hand, have no such fear. They understand that they are the targets of the Democrats, having been defined by Democrats as “racist white supremacist Trump deplorables.”
The introduction of a report of the Heritage Foundation states that “the United States has a long and unfortunate history of election fraud”. Are the 2020 presidential elections another inglorious chapter in this long history?
This time the fraud is not local as in the past. It is the result of a well organized national effort to get rid of a president that the Establishment does not accept.
Pretty good analysis.
The outcome is so close to 100% assured that there's no real fighting to win left...
I thought so, too but if I'm on the same side of a position with Ann the Disinterested Observer I'll have to reconsider taking Trump for the win...
Blogger hombre said...
It’s tough to see how officials disregarding election law for the sole purpose of surreptitiously influencing the results is not, among more specific things, a form of fraud.
A question for the lawyers here: Is ignoring the law, for example election law regarding cutoff times for accepting ballots "fraud" in a legal sense?
I agree it is wrong and perhaps illegal. Should be illegal if it isn't.
But is it legally "fraud"?
This is kind of the point Tim Pool has been making. PDJT and others have been making a lot of noise about "fraud", threatening to sue and so on. But, according to Pool, they have not done so. All of their suits have been on other grounds. For example, not having legal authority and so on. Or not following the law.
Is all the talk about fraud just misdirection to hide what PDJT et al have been doing?
John Henry
I used to maintain a healthy skepticism for anything I read/saw from the MSM. Now my default position is that published information is false until proven otherwise. If I see a reference to the NYT or WaPo, I just stop reading.
Fool me once, shame on you.
Fool me 1000 times, shame on me.
I guess we're going to come to find out that the fraud was so effective so massive and so brilliant that there's absolutely no evidence that it ever occurred. That's real deep, deep state operation designed and executed by the lizard people no doubt.
There were 40 Roadrunner cartoons produced. (I would have thought more but just looked it up.)
In every one, at least once and often more, the coyote tries to drop an anvil on the roadrunner or get him in some other way.
So let's say 100 times as an estimate.
The coyote has tried to get candidate Trump and President Trump at least that many times in the past 5 years.
Every time it is accompanied by chortles of glee from the commentariat that "The walls are closing in", "We've really got him now" "There is no way he can survive this" and so on.
Each time, he's been like RP McMurphy coming back from electrotherapy. All charged up and less fuckwithable than before. (I wanted a clip but could only find it in a spanish dub)
Trust Trump.
He'll survive this too.
Meep, meep!
John Henry
Blogger Howard said...
"I guess we're going to come to find out that the fraud was so effective so massive and so brilliant that there's absolutely no evidence that it ever occurred. That's real deep, deep state operation designed and executed by the lizard people no doubt."
As I told your little friend Gadfly. I know the difference between piss and rain even if you don't.
It seems there were 19 counties that gave a majority to the eventual winner in every presidential election 1980-2016. 18 of those counties went for Trump this time (WSJ behind paywall):
https://pjmedia.com/election/matt-margolis/2020/11/13/bellwether-counties-had-a-clear-favorite-for-the-2020-election-n1142966
https://www.wsj.com/articles/bellwether-counties-nearly-wiped-out-by-2020-election-11605272400?st=nalhc8ehsstcodh
Trump needs to flip 3 states, not two flipping GA and PA just gets him to 268 EVs.
No recount in my life has overcome the margins Trump is behind in WI, MI, PA, AZ, and GA- never, literally never. I am working on the assumption that the ballots counted for Biden exist- full stop. I don't believe these stories about electronic vote changing etc. because that would be a stupid way to cheat- it gets caught the first time you do a hand count of the actual paper ballots any pretty much any of the jurisdictions, right down to the precinct level. I suspect, that the hand recount in GA, to the extent they do it as promised, will confirm that Biden has more "votes" than Trump by about his margin as reported, plus or minus up to maybe 1500 votes.
Trump's only real path to victory is to disqualify enough votes during a recount to flip any three of the contested states I listed above, or show there was clearly fraud on the scale that would have changed the outcome- proof enough to get the legislatures to act and send their own slates to disqualify the governor certified ones, and even there, Trump would probably need a SCOTUS ruling that the 1887 electoral act is, in fact, unconstitutional- this would throw the election into the House, but even there I don't think Trump would win- what would probably happen is that Pence would be chosen by the House after enough faitless electors make him the 3rd option.
Basically, if Trump wants to be reelected, he needs to show that the Democrats cheated electronically and they actually won at least 3 of those states, and I just don't think that is how the Democrats did it- they either won it fair and square, or they cheated with actual physical ballots. I think Trump's chances or even Pence's at this point are about a million to one. The stories about it all being a big sting operation had better be true or it is President Bi.....er.....Harris for the next 4 years.
I did find a quote, though:
"They uh, was givin' me ten thousand watts a day, you know, and I'm hot to trot. The next woman who takes me out is gonna light up like a pinball machine, and pay off in silver dollars."
John Henry
Say hello to my little friend
"... advisers and people close to the president."
Just imagine how effective the President would be if only he knew his staff as well as Maggie Haberman does.
What a lying whore.
Blogger John henry said...
Blogger Yancey Ward said...
this would throw the election into the House, but even there I don't think Trump would win- what would probably happen is that Pence would be chosen by the House after enough faithless electors make him the 3rd option.
Not following you here, Yancy. If it gets thrown into the House, the electors, faithful, faithless or otherwise have no say in the matter.
Once it gets thrown into the House, it is solely up to the 50 state delegations.
Also, they could not choose Pence, since he was not a candidate
"then the House of Representatives shall immediately chuse by Ballot one of them for President; and if no Person have a Majority, then from the five highest on the List the said House shall in like Manner chuse the President.
Unless you are saying that because of faithless electors Biden fails to get to 270, throwing the election into the House?
John Henry
She is suggesting that Trump is the only one who would fight at this point. She's right, and that's a great thing about him, but it's not about Trump. It about elections, this one and all the ones from now on. I'll never forget who fought to keep them clean, fair and honest, and who didn't give a shit about that, and who cheated and lied.
Just stop it with the NYT. They lie, and make you misinformed. I have no desire to join you in that which you should know better than by now. You're acting like a battered spouse of the leftist media. I know, I know. They can be very nice, and you know they love you, but they just show it poorly.
I'm pretty open to the idea that there was fraud in Pennsylvania and elsewhere in the Midwest, if past is prelude (certainly in Philadelphia, where an election judge got convicted earlier this year of manufacturing fraudulent votes). And that might add up to thousands of votes. But at this point, I'm quite skeptical that any fraud actually changed the outcome, given that Biden now leads by tens of thousands of votes. The most plausible scenario to me is that some local party machines got spooked by what happened to them in 2016 when they trusted the polls and got caught totally unawares, so in 2020 they engaged in some of their old tricks to make sure their man won. He'd have won anyway, but they had to make sure.
This is going to sound like concern trolling, but I think Democrats and journalists should just let the process play out. The likelihood that Biden doesn't ultimately get certified as the next President is extremely low. Their frenzied desperation to shout down any discussion about potential yellow flags of electoral fraud is a waste of energy. They won't actually be able to keep tongues from wagging and they'll probably win either way so just let it be!
"and that suggests that people think there is a benefit to loose accounting."
Think? If there wasn't a benefit to cheating (or loose accounting, if you wish), people wouldn't do it.
mccullough said...
If every ballot is traceable to a voter, it means the secret ballot is finished.
Let’s not give government that power.
It would be easily possible to give voters the option of a personal encryption key so they could take a receipt with an encryption code on it connected to their ballot and match their personal key to find out how the state logged their vote.
Qwinn said...
Yeah, Chuck, because Democrats always work so very hard to ensure "smooth transitions" when Republicans take over. You know, aside from prying all the Ws off the keyboards
That's mostly urban legend, of course. And what little pranking there was, was not repeated under Obama.
and stealing the silverware,
I think you are referring to this:
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=121856&page=1
preventing W from filling his cabinet even AFTER the inauguration so we were ill prepared for 9/11,
that was studied closely and found to be a myth as well:
https://www.everycrsreport.com/reports/RL32551.html#TOC2_3
and cooking up a fake dossier so you could fap yourself to sleep with every "the walls are closing in!" fake news report for 3 years.
LOL! We'll be hearing about "the fake dossier" even after Trump is convicted of multiple felonies in New York, won't we?
As always, go fuck yourself.
Have a nice day!
Balfegor said...
This is going to sound like concern trolling, but I think Democrats and journalists should just let the process play out. The likelihood that Biden doesn't ultimately get certified as the next President is extremely low. Their frenzied desperation to shout down any discussion about potential yellow flags of electoral fraud is a waste of energy. They won't actually be able to keep tongues from wagging and they'll probably win either way so just let it be!
That won't happen anytime soon. They want total capitulation from Trump so they can rub his face (and by proxy his supporters faces) in it. It would not surprise me if Trump never concedes, just to deny them this.
If the possibility of finding election fraud is so low wouldn’t Republicans Senators be nudging the President to concede? Even if he did not take their advice, seems a few would at least be making a public statement so the press could put more pressure on him. Just seems weird they are being so quiet. Even those who are known to be Anti Trumpers aren’t saying anything.
If this fraudulent election is allowed to stand, we are totally screwed.
As I said to my Biden-voting wife (who's suffering some serious buyer's remorse now): "Letting a phony presidential election stand is a whole lot worse than re-electing a jerk."
But at this point, I'm quite skeptical that any fraud actually changed the outcome, given that Biden now leads by tens of thousands of votes.
That's the classic thinking- that it's too difficult to manufacture more than a few thousand votes.
But this is 2020.
Democrats have had election shenanigans moving in place since before Pelosi took the gavel and her house passed HR 1. Soros spent on seemingly irrelevant races to install their desired leaders to sign off on elections. Coordinating ballot stuffing across states seems well withon the left coordinating efforts. You just need prying eyes out if the counting room for a few minutes...
Anyone hearing about independents conducting vote audits yet? Recounts yes, but shoving the illegal votes back through the machines uncovers nothing...
If you cannot or will not name the 'advisers', then the entirety of the article is just more 'narrative' - that is, BS. Besides, it is the NYT, so it pretty much is all BS all the time.
DJT should never, ever concede. The next four years should be just as 'uniting' as the last four have been. As always, the left scream 'unite', when what they mean is 'unite' behind our agenda and shutup or else.
What is interesting, is that the BLM/antifa folks seem to not be hearing the call to unite at all. So even if SLo Jo and Heels Up do steal the election, they still get to contend with the forces of violence and destruction they have been promoting all these months. It is like the old threat - 'may you live in interesting times'.
Ain't we gonna have fun..
Just who counts as a Trump advisor in Maggie Habermann's stylebook? Given the Gray Whore's respect for objectivity and truthfulness I assume her unnamed source is someone who stands in Lafayette Park and shouts at the White House.
Howard said...
I guess we're going to come to find out that the fraud was so effective so massive and so brilliant that there's absolutely no evidence that it ever occurred. That's real deep, deep state operation designed and executed by the lizard people no doubt.
Democrats have already mailed millions of ballots to random people.
Democrats have already admitted they removed poll observers while counting those millions of ballots.
Democrats have already admitted they did not check signatures on those ballots or even match them to voter rolls.
It isn't some deep conspiracy. It is the fact that Democrats are pieces of shit that just do not give a fuck about honest elections.
People like you know the election is corrupt. You just don't care.
Howard said...Say hello to my little friend
I think Jeffrey Toobin has found a new venue.
Yancy Ward said:
This is going to sound like concern trolling, but I think Democrats and journalists should just let the process play out. The likelihood that Biden doesn't ultimately get certified as
the next President is extremely low. Their frenzied desperation to shout down any discussion about potential yellow flags of electoral fraud is a waste of energy. They won't actually be able to keep tongues from wagging and they'll probably win either way so just let it be!
If there is no fraud, the Dems should be pushing to let the investigation continue. The worst thing they can do is try and use political or legal tactics to stop an investigation. That will insure that 70 million citizens or more will be antagonistic to the Biden/Harris junta. An election proven to be clean is more secure than one with a dark cloud over it.
The threat of NY multiple felonies on Trump is just wrong - talk about politicization. And all you will do is create a martyr. Note the Trump Accountability Project shut itself down.
Talk about Fascist Behavior.
Another reason to end prosecutional immunity.
I hope we are not a Banana Republic, but with everything I am reading about apparent Detroit Voting Fraud, and other voter fraud around the US, I'm wondering...
>even after Trump is convicted of multiple felonies in New York, won't we?
@JohnHenry: A legal definition of fraud is: “Fraud is generally defined in the law as an intentional misrepresentation of material existing fact made by one person to another with knowledge of its falsity and for the purpose of inducing the other person to act, and upon which the other person relies with resulting injury or damage.”
As you can see, “election fraud” must be somewhat different. Generally, it involves illegal interference with the process of an election to alter the outcome and can occur in a myriad of ways.
Violation of election law may be a crime unto itself or a civil violation but if the purpose of the violation is to alter the outcome of an election illegally, I would argue that it is election fraud. For example, if challengers or observers are excluded from the counting process in violation of the law so that vote tallies can be altered it is election fraud.
Regardless of what the mediaswine and the Democrats say violations of election law and other irregularities may well be fraud. The problem is proof. If the observers can’t get close, how does Trump prove fraud in the event of miscounting? He doesn’t unless somebody blows the whistle. There are “red flags” everywhere in this election. Motive, means and opportunity are surely present. It is evidence of the acts that alter the outcome that is elusive.
Howard said...
I guess we're going to come to find out that the fraud was so effective so massive and so brilliant that there's absolutely no evidence that it ever occurred.
Really, Howard, there's "no evidence" that the Fulton County Democrat "vote counters" told the GOP vote watchers to go home because there would be no more counting, then counted? (See statement I posted about that yesterday)
There's "no evidence" that Detroit Democrat "vote counters" refused to let GOp vote watchers be where they could observe what was happening? (See MI lawsuit, with affidavits)
There's "no evidence" that Philly would not allow GOP vote watchers to observe the operation of Democrat "vote counters"? (See lawsuits on the subject)
If a cop turns off his body cam, then shoots someone, that's evidence of premeditation and intent.
If "vote counters" try to keep vote watchers from being able to observe what they're doing, that's evidence of vote fraud.
So, you tell yourself whatever lies you like. We'er not buying
"Trump Floats Improbable Survival Scenarios as He Ponders His Future..."
Yet, is not the sum of all improbabilities a certainty, grasshopper?
D.D. Driver said...
"I have spent a number of years doing election observing at central count in MKE. That's how I know the fraud theories are bullshit. Life experience."
I see. Are you, by any chance, a "life-long election observer"?
@John Henry: Sorry. I didn’t address your specific question about illegally altering or ignoring the dates ballots are due. Again, the problem is proof. Very tough in this case. It facilitates fraud, but how do you prove the official is complicit?
We know that every modification in election law Democrats seek or seek to prevent facilitates election fraud, e.g., voter ID, motor voter, mail order ballots, etc. But, however sleazy, that is separate from the act of fraud.
I don’t think Trump succeeds in regaining the Presidency. I do think he succeeds in shining the light once again on how Democrats corrupt everything they control including the voting process.
I have been breathing since the day I was born. That's how I know there is air on the Moon.
WaStBlogger wrote: “... That will insure that 70 million citizens or more will be antagonistic to the Biden/Harris junta.”
Oooo. Sorry. That ship has already sailed!
D.D. Driver said...
"I have spent a number of years doing election observing at central count in MKE. That's how I know the fraud theories are bullshit. Life experience."
Mr Driver, in your experience in MKE did they ever throw out the Republican observers and keep counting? if not, then you are not knowledgeable on election fraud.
Joe won the same" LANDSLIDE, trump said he won in 2016 306-232...How's that for Karma. trump has to stop acting like a petulant child and get out of the way,set up the transition and disappear into the night as a 1 term loser...SDNY is waiting patiently..
"An election proven to be clean is more secure than one with a dark cloud over it."
Ha! clearly few or none of the Trumpist commenters on the AA blog will accept any proof that the election was clean. Keep contributing to the Trump litigation fund. You can't change who won, but you just might make it less of a landslide than 306 in the Electoral College. (Sad that we will be watching that Trump "306 landslide" video montage for a long time. Too bad he managed to flip a district in Maine or it would be 307 (gasp)).
readering said...
"An election proven to be clean is more secure than one with a dark cloud over it."
Ha! clearly few or none of the Trumpist commenters on the AA blog will accept any proof that the election was clean. Keep contributing to the Trump litigation fund. You can't change who won, but you just might make it less of a landslide than 306 in the Electoral College. (Sad that we will be watching that Trump "306 landslide" video montage for a long time. Too bad he managed to flip a district in Maine or it would be 307 (gasp)).
You have already admitted democrats committed fraud.
Democrats have already admitted they repeatedly broken numerous election laws.
You just keep moving the goal posts.
"Blogger DINKY DAU 45 said..."
Did you not get word, comrade? show trial of Trump not to occur until transfer of power complete.
You are unable to parse a sentence, Achilles.
I'd assume all the anonymous interviewees hold ranks at least as high as assistant to chief of staff and that at least one of them has actually been in the White House and met the President.
" Blogger Leora said...
I'd assume all the anonymous interviewees hold ranks at least as high as assistant to chief of staff and that at least one of them has actually been in the White House and met the President."
I am overwhelmingly happy and excited that you assume that fact.
Tim Pool asks if it is just a coincidence that PDJT chose Barret and Kavanaugh as Supremes.
I may have known this from their confirmations but had not connected it until a few minutes ago.
Tim Pool explained a bit more tonight about what PDJT is doing in PA. He is not arguing about fraud. He is arguing that, because some counties treated voters/votes differently there is a 14th Amendment, Equal treatment argument.
Some, mainly democrat counties, allowed voters to come in and correct their votes. Missing signatures and the like. Other counties did not.
One of the main arguments in Bush v. Gore was that Broward and Palm Beach counties treated the voters differently with different standards for acceptance/rejection.
Who was it that convinced the Supremes, 7 to 2, to stop the counting?
Why, it was Bush lawyers Amy Coney Barret and Brett Kavanaugh.
How cool would it be as a lawyer to be able to argue "We are arguing that different counties can't count votes differently. Just like your arguments when you were arguing Bush v Gore. Remember when you said "Yadda, yadda, yadda?" Well, we agree completely and it is the same thing here"
The lawyers will phrase it more elegantly, of course.
John Henry
"Arguing" in the legal sense about 14A.
Getting everyone else to argue publicly that he is arguing fraud in the court.
As misdirection.
The pea is under the first cup. If you keep a really, really, really close eye on that cup you will know where the pea winds up and win the bet.
John Henry
The Democrat Party knows something that Republicans can't acknowledge.
There is a Bell Curve of intelligence in a human population. Most folks never studied ECON 101. Tax the rich! YEAH! Free healthcare. YEAH! Joe Biden sold out America to China. Wait, whut? CNN never said anything about that. CNN said Billionaire Trump never paid any taxes. CNN couldn't say that if it wasn't true, because 'Truth in Advertising'! Right ?
They work their whole lives paying for the pensions of those who take advantage of them.
It's frustrating, but it is what it is.
John Henry,
When the electors meet and vote in December, there will one of two possible scenarios- Biden is sure to have 270 and will become the new President, or Biden might not get to 270 because there are competing slates of electors. In that event, thinking ahead to the new House choosing the new President, I think may mainstream Republicans will be looking for a non-Biden and non-Trump option- to get that, all you need is for enough Republican electors to simply vote for someone else, like Mike Pence, for example. The 12th Amendment says Congress may choose among the top 3 electoral vote recipients. Is this a plausible scenario- yes, it is. Is it a likely scenario? No, it isn't- I think Biden will have the 270 with about 99% certainty in my mind. To break that, Trump's team needs undeniable evidence of fraud large enough to change the outcome. I personally think the Democrats did cheat on that scale- mail in ballots made it possible, and the Democrats used it brilliantly to steal the election while the Republicans did what they usually do- say, "Tsk, tsk," and then concede "honorably" like Mitt Romney would do in this situation.
I desperately want to believe that the Democrats underestimated the scale of the problem they faced and did something really, really stupid to put Biden over the top, but right now I find it hard to believe that is even possible. The only piece of evidence I can see for this possibility is that they won the election in WI, PA, and GA/AZ by pretty narrow margins- it looks to me that they probably did come close to not cheating enough, so it is possible there is something really, really stupid out there to be uncovered, but I no longer think it even a 1 in 1000 chance.
Faithless electors this time? There were more than usual last time. Votes for Colin Powell, John Kasich, Ron Paul, Faith Spotted Eagle. What would a Spotted Eagle presidency look like?
Thanks Yancey, I had misunderstood. I had thought you were talking about after the electors had voted for Biden and Trump.
I understand that if one elector votes for Pence, he becomes a 3rd presidential candidate and eligible to be elected by the House. Assuming that neither Trump or Biden get 270.
Is that what you are gettng at?
John Henry
Who better than Maggie Haberman to tell us what Donald Trump is trying to do? Other than just about anyone, I mean.
Trump trounced in a landslide 306-232..Joe won bigly and over 5,000,000 in popular vote with trump losing popular vote 2x..Not even close.thanks Blue didnt let Apathy take hold this time trump a 1 term fluke president...Votes ....are all done trump is the loser.....
I like TreeJoe’s suggestion about compiling an inventory of stories attributed to anonymous sources to see the % that were right/wrong in the end. Would be a good project for a J-School class somewhere.
TreeJoe observes about “… the ever growing convoluted way of naming why we should believe an anonymous source - ‘Advisor', 'Official close to the matter', 'People involved in discussions', etc. - is a sheer indicator of how much anonymous sources have been overplayed”. Yes…. one such person who fits all of those criteria would be: a groundskeeper who tends to areas around 1600 Pennsylvania Ave, etc,, takes restroom breaks inside a government building and reads comments written on the walls there, talks about politics with his co-workers (also close the White House), shouts “advice” (e.g., to go f— himself) at Trump’s image on TV, and is “official” by virtue of having been issued a security pass to work on Federal property after a screening done by Harvey Schmuck in the HR department.
H
There was some cheating - like Ron Klain tweeted, fraud happens - but it's hard to see how it could have been done on so large a scale that it could have turned a Trump win into a Biden victory. Let the recount and the investigation go forward, so we can establish that fraud happened, but skip the expectation that it's going to change the final result.
“There was some cheating - like Ron Klain tweeted, fraud happens - but it's hard to see how it could have been done on so large a scale that it could have turned a Trump win into a Biden victory. Let the recount and the investigation go forward, so we can establish that fraud happened, but skip the expectation that it's going to change the final result.”
Yes, it really does appear to have been that big - we are talking industrial level fraud, in PA, MI, and probably WI. Possibly, probably, over a million fraudulent votes between these states. What appears to me to have happened in these states is that the polls were intentionally off, undercounting Trump’s support by hundreds of thousands in these states. They increased (not decreased, as usual) the Dem and urban weighting in the polls in the last month of of the race. The facts were there, with the hundreds of thousands signing up for Trump rallies, spontaneous caravans, etc, while Biden would go out a couple times a week to see a dozen of the party faithful, until they made the mistake of going to Texas, where their campaign bus was swarmed. That was essentially it, for Biden or Harris campaigning.
We are supposed to believe that somehow, a handful of long time Dem run cities across the country bucked the national trend, and voted in mass, sometimes above 99% for Biden, with turnout nearing or exceeding 100% of eligible voters, without there having been a smidgen of Biden support more in these cities than in similar cities around the country before the election. And it all appeared in the votes counted after midnight Election Night. There had been zero indication of this level of Biden support in these cities before the election. Zip. Zero. Nada.
What appears to have happened is that the Dems knew the states that they had to flip - Crooked Hillary’s Blue Wall states that had crumbled for Trump four years ago, plus a couple more targets of opportunity. By late night, they knew the returns were running against them fairly heavily, and calls went out for ballots. Pallets of ballots, lacking any sort of provenance. For one reason or another, the poll workers were sent home - except that it was mostly Republicans who actually left, because many of the Democrats knew the plan. Then, with most of the Republicans gone, they started receiving the fraudulent ballots, and counting them. Because they had dawdled in their counting, they knew how many ballots they needed, and manufactured that number, plus a comfortable excess to convince the country that a recount wouldn’t matter.
(Continued)
The problem with a recount is that they can run these fraudulent ballots through the counting machines as many times as you want, and they will still mostly read as Biden votes. Ditto for hand counts. What is needed is an audit, and any votes that cannot be shown to have provenance through conformity with election law provisions, such as giving both sides equal access, signature verification, being in the book of registered voters, etc, should be discarded and not counted. If they intermingled bad ballots with the good, fine, throw out the batch of intermingled ballots. That is just going to run up Trump’s totals statewide, because these are Dem controlled cities that are expected to have voted for Biden. Just not at the 99% level, and a similar, if not higher percentage of eligible voters.
There really is no other choice. At this time, the good ballots have been mixed with the bad, and any tie to the underlying Provence for a specific ballot has been severed by the system. You have batches of ballots in one pile, and their documentation, their provenance, in another, and intentionally no way to tie them together. That is the way the system was designed. That is why their validity, their provenance, is supposed to be verified by all parties before they get added to a batch of ballots, because those controls guarantee the integrity of the entire batch. The taint of a single bad ballot in a batch taints the entire batch. And the higher the intermingling went, the bigger the batch of ballots that has been tainted. This, BTW was why the PA judge, along with Justice Alito, had ordered late arrived ballots segregated - to quarantine the potential contagion. I think that Dr K talks about medical situations like this in his book, where surgeons have to amputate body parts to keep ahead of pathogens or cancers, and when they fail, they lose the patient.
I think at this point that the Dems behind this are figuring that no judge in their city is going to require that they do the right thing,the thing required by law, which is to not count any batch of ballots that have been contaminated by violations of the election laws. The numbers are just too big. The contagion just too extensive. We are talking hundreds of thousands of ballots that legally shouldn’t be counted at all. Recounting them just accepts that they were legitimate from the first. They weren’t, and the contagion is extensive enough that if they do the right thing, and sever the limbs high enough to save the patient, the loss of those hundreds of thousands of votes are going to cause AntiFA to riot and burn down Dem cities around the country.
In response to one commenter here’s claim that my excessively long comments are Adderall fueled, ADHD has never been my problem. It is just the opposite problem - I focus too much. I am a bit OC. Not as bad as my partner, and she isn’t as bad as one of her uncle’s wives, who would sometimes scrub her hands enough that they bled. It served me well in my two careers (software design and patent law). You can’t be good at either if you aren’t decently OC. And I think that I was very good at both.
The problem now is that I am mostly retired, mostly now involved in finishing the move into our new house, as well as a couple things involving making money. My days right now are mostly spent constructing the new stuff we need here, such as putting in a gun safe, cabinets, clothing rods, locks, etc, and driving around town going from Home Depot to Big Lots to Costco to Fry’s (Kroger’s), etc. Then spray painting some boards out back, caulking then painting upstairs, etc. I keep busy, but it doesn’t provide the intellectual stimulation I crave. So, these things run through my mind all day, then I go to bed tired, just to wake up 4 hours later, still turning them over in my head. And that is what happened tonight.
AA > The outcome is so close to 100% assured that there's no real fighting to win left...
Because... ?
Is there a mathematical limitation on the "error"?
Past performance is no guarantee of future results
So, tonight I clicked on a video of Rudi Giuliani talking about the progress of the election. I don’t do well just listening to something (too boring) so managed to get the UTube video in its own small window, with it playing as I did other stuff on my IPad. Giuliani talked about the status of the election, and what the Trump campaign was doing there. Much of it involved litigation, and at least in PA, MI, and WI, they are trying to get the courts to do their duty and throw out the tainted batches of votes. They really do seem to believe that there are plenty of votes there to put them comfortably over the top in all three states. As for GA and NV, I think that they are comfortable with just recounts. Here in Maricopa County, AZ, I think that they are talking both recount and audit. Notably, today, on the way home, there was a nice little demonstration going on at a big intersection with about 20 people in their Trump stuff, waiving flags, etc, with a sign saying to honk if you support Trump. There were a lot of honks. Including mine - extensive enough that I got applause from them.
But somehow the Giuliani video segued into Tucker Carlson, while I wasn’t paying attention. One of the things that he talked about was why the polling was so bad this year, and got worse, in the run up to Election Day. They must have known that they were increasingly biasing, fudging the polls. Why? Carlson’s theory was that it was all about campaign money. Most people are reluctant to donate to losing causes, and thus biasing polls biases contributing to campaigns on both sides. I think that when the dust settles, we are going to find that Dem candidates, overall, esp at the top levels out raised their Republican counterparts more often than not. The monies spent this year were really obscene.
That got me thinking about what Guliani was talking about, and that Biden has claimed victory, and assumed the fictitious office of President Elect. Why won’t Trump concede? Guliani claims to be confident that they will ultimately either get those hundreds of thousands of illegal votes thrown out, or the various state legislatures will demand an audit, and it won’t be forthcoming, and they will use that as an excuse not to certify the Dem slate of electors. Already, Republican legislators in MI have demanded that for Detroit, with of course, no response from the Dem in charge of elections there. Either the judicial system in those cities and those states do their job, and throw out the tainted batches of ballots, or the issue is settled in the House, where the vote is by state, with MT and WY each getting the same number of votes (one) as CA and NY. Either way results in a Trump win (though there is a possibility for a Harris VP, if the GA Senate recounts don’t go well for the GOP).
So why the rush to judgment here? One big reason, I think is that these after election legal challenges cost a lot of money. The Dems, with their fundraising advantages this time (much illegal, of course, but if the win that isn’t an issue), put a lot of money aside for these challenges. The Trump campaign, on a much tighter budget (remember what Carlson was talking about), couldn't afford to, plus their much more accurate internal polls were showing easy victories in these states. In short, I very much suspect that the big reason that the Dems (including the MSM) are doing whatever they can to convince the public that Trump has no chance in order to dry up the money that his lawyers need to overcome the industrial level of election fraud very likely committed by the Democrats.
And with that, I am biding you all a good night. My mind seems more at rest now, that I have put my thoughts in words. Already getting sleepy again. Busy day planned today. I expect to finish the painting for awhile, and hope to get the second rod up in my closet. Three maybe four rods in the front hall closet are planned for Sunday, along with one fan, when my partner’s daughter and grandson come over to help.
Ah, the NYT! Which I despise, detest, and totally distrust.
I find this post unfair to our wonderful president and leader, Mr. Trump. He will always be my light and guiding star!
Bruce, you have to remember that the President outraised his 2016 amount by a substantial margin. It's just that Joe Biden got an insane amount of money through a more or less complete disregard of the campaign finance system.
A lot of Wall Street companies are REALLY desperate that Trump not finish something he started. I suspect that something is Maxwell/ Epstein.
I don't you can take that reportage as anything but what it is: Maggie Helberman and her friends: facebook gossip. I think Trump is looking in a very cold, calculated manner - he's saying "I call your bluff". If the 'bluff' means they have a full 'house (ha,ha!) then he will walk away from the table. But never concede, especially when you know your opponent cheats.
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