Althouse: At the Sunset Café...

November 18, 2020

At the Sunset Café...

... you can write about anything you want.

236 comments:

1 – 200 of 236 Newer› Newest»

Birkel said...: https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-6817

Wear the mask, our betters told us.
We are killing grandma because science, they said.
Meanwhile, masks don't work.

Wash your hands.
Get some fresh air and sunshine.
All else is propaganda.; 11/18/20, 5:21 PM
narciso said...: here's a twist,

https://www.ft.com/content/68ec8b2c-f4bb-4f73-9397-e0b08dff82f2; 11/18/20, 5:32 PM
walter said...: paywalled.
Say a few words about it, narciso; 11/18/20, 5:34 PM
Jersey Fled said...: Authors of the Danish study had to include some phony baloney statements about how masks prevent infected people from spreading the disease in order to get the study published, even though there was nothing in the study to support that claim. The very design of the study couldn't allow for measuring spread by infected people.

But what we have here is a randomized study that concluded that wearing a mask gives you no statistically significant benefit over not wearing one as regards catching the disease.

Strangely, this is where Fauci and the CDC started out way back in February.

Before things got all political.; 11/18/20, 5:38 PM
Wince said...: Subscribe to the FT to read: Financial Times US drug charges dropped against Mexico’s former defence minister; 11/18/20, 5:38 PM
J. Farmer said...: GOP senators pointed to immigration as one area of potential compromise under a government likely to be divided next year.

“I think that would be a good thing to do,” Sen. John Cornyn (R-Texas) said about the potential to do immigration next year.

“The challenge is you’ve got to get the votes, but that to me is one of my biggest disappointments in my time in the Senate, our inability to get that done,” Cornyn said, adding that he would “try to be part of that effort” if the topic comes back up.

Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) during a recent call with reporters said there was room for deals between Republicans and Biden on several issues, and “there may be some things we can do on immigration. You know, you got the Dreamers hanging out there.”

-Biden win revives immigration talk

We really could use Jeff Sessions in the Senate.; 11/18/20, 5:44 PM
Breezy said...: Do they not understand why the minority support increased under Trump?; 11/18/20, 5:48 PM
Jersey Fled said...: On a separate note, it seems that Coumo is so consumed by Trump hate that he is working to discredit the safety of the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines. Even if it means people will die.; 11/18/20, 5:49 PM
narciso said...: killing innocent people is cuomo's gig, it's the point of his job,; 11/18/20, 5:53 PM
Duke Dan said...: 3rd R leaning Georgia county finds votes they ‘forgot’ to upload.; 11/18/20, 5:55 PM
J. Farmer said...: killing innocent people is cuomo's gig, it's the point of his job,

In that case, it will be very good practice for when he wants to run for president. In our society a president pretty much has to be a mass murderer in order to be taken seriously.; 11/18/20, 5:57 PM
Big Mike said...: We really could use Jeff Sessions in the Senate.

Not really.; 11/18/20, 6:00 PM
Humperdink said...: Cuomo kills them at both ends.

Note: Can't NY libs find someone that is a bit less abrasive for which to vote??; 11/18/20, 6:02 PM
Roughcoat said...: This post has nothing to do with anything important. So it might be of interest to some of you.

I am of Irish-German extraction. Third generation on each side, split right down the middle.

According to the most recent census – and ever census prior thereto – people of Irish-German extraction comprise the most common and populous ethnic mix in the Midwest (most especially in Illinois and Indiana).

My aim is to create a distinct Celti-Germanic ethnicity and ethnic consciousness. To that end I am looking to start a CeltiGerman website and blog.

My model for doing so -- and I say this half facetiously, hence half seriously – is the formation of the Métis ethnicity among Canadian peoples of mixed Native American and European descent.

CeltiGermans, of course, represent the merging of two primary Indo-European ethno-linguistic groups.

If anyone is interested in becoming involved in this undertaking, perhaps I could arrange with Althouse to have you contact me through her.

Join me, all you proud CeltiGermans! We are legion!; 11/18/20, 6:03 PM
Jaq said...: "uthors of the Danish study had to include some phony baloney statements about how masks prevent infected people from spreading the disease in order to get the study published,”

I can’t figure out what draws people with such minimal reading comprehension to a blog like this. What they said was that the study was not designed to measure the effect of everybody wearing masks so that infected people could not spread it, and 95% of the people not in the study were not wearing masks, so their study should not be interpreted to mean that mask mandates would not produce a better result. This is obviously true.

The most important limitation is that the findings are inconclusive, with CIs compatible with a 46% decrease to a 23% increase in infection.

They got so few cases that it’s like a poll with an accuracy of +-30 points. Still the preponderance is on the side of a protective effect, even when nobody else is wearing a mask. If both sides were wearing a mask , it is very likely that the effect would be stronger.

The lack of statistical significance comes from not having enough cases, probably because at the time of the study, cases were dropping rapidly, probably due to a lockdown that was in place and the onset of warmer weather.

With a vaccine on the way, we should try to prevent as many cases as we can at a reasonable cost to get as many people to the other side as we can, but I know. A lot of people have severe emotional problems, perhaps even phobias about masks, so whatever.

My standard disclaimer, I don’t support lockdowns because as soon as they are over, cases just climb again, but that doesn’t mean that they don’t work for a short while at a prohibitive cost.; 11/18/20, 6:09 PM
Owen said...: Roughcoat: interesting idea and right this minute I am sufficiently fed up with the Racisss Idiots that I am tempted to pay them back in their own coin, with an organization such as you describe. I am Northern European + WELSH which, last time I looked, is pretty Celtic. So, who knows, I might qualify. Don't give up!; 11/18/20, 6:23 PM
Owen said...: narciso: "killing innocent people is cuomo's gig, it's the point of his job,

11/18/20, 5:53 PM."

Indeed! Who are you more likely to respect/fear/not oppose: the guy who follows the law and doesn't kill a lot of people for absolutely no good reason? Or the guy who does the opposite?

A thug has to keep marketing with fresh bodies, to convince people that he is a serious player.

And Cuomo is a serious player.; 11/18/20, 6:27 PM
Matthew Heintz said...: German father, Irish mother, keep up the good work!; 11/18/20, 6:30 PM
h said...: This year, is having a thanksgiving meal a revolutionary act?; 11/18/20, 6:35 PM
Ignorance is Bliss said...: For those looking at the Danish study and not understanding the term statistically significant let me try to enlighten you.
Saying the difference was not statistically significant is not a statement about how effective masks are. It is a statement about what can be shown with their limited study data. Basically, they didn't see enough cases in either group to pin down the effectiveness. Based on their study, mask effectiveness likely falls between a 46% decrease in catching covid and a 23% increase, with the most likely effectiveness around an 11% decrease.

You can look at this study and say we need a better study (and I bet there already are better studies). You can't look at it and say masks are not effective.; 11/18/20, 6:35 PM
Roughcoat said...: Matthew Heintz: same with me!

Owen: yes, Welsh + Northern European would certainly qualify (presumably by the latter you mean Scandi or German -- but not, God help us, French.

Gotta include the Scandi/Nordic strain, which of courae runs strong in the Irish, especially in the eastern part of the country. My Irish DNA indicates significant Danish and Norman (i.e., Scandinavian) markers, which makes sense given that half of my Irish family is Norman surnamed and came from Dublin. The other half came from Ulster and is pure Celtic (and Catholic).

Father's family is Frisian/Saxon and Swiss-German.

Of course the Welsh comprise one of the Five Celtic Nations, the others being the Irish, Scottish, Cornish, and Bretons.

Welcome aboard, da boat [sic] of youse [sic]. My first recruits?!; 11/18/20, 6:43 PM
stevew said...: The DIL has posted the Thanksgiving menu, and Friday breakfast, and it looks AMAZING! To be truthful, our son will cook much of it (DIL is self-admittedly not a cook) with as much assistance from me as he will allow. There will be apps, mains, dessert, and beverages. It will be glorious.

In other news I traded the MB E350 Sport for a pickup. I live in Maine now, it's only right.; 11/18/20, 6:49 PM
Mark said...: Roughcoat looking to start an US group for those of Aryan descent. Oh wait, let's just slap another term on that instead, for camouflage.; 11/18/20, 6:50 PM
Mike of Snoqualmie said...: My family is English (50%), Irish (25%), German(12.5%) and Finnish(12.5%). They all came in the 1890s/1900s.; 11/18/20, 6:52 PM
Jaq said...: The reason they couldn’t get it published is likely that they didn’t get enough cases. In fact, all of the limitations of this study are remarkably similar to those that I predicted to Yancey Ward that they would be when he kept bringing up the statement that none of the journals had “the courage” to publish it.

The way you study mask mandates is to compare the growth rate of the virus in areas of the country were he have them to areas that we do not, basically. Like this study:

Abstract
State policies mandating public or community use of face masks or covers in mitigating the spread of coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) are hotly contested. This study provides evidence from a natural experiment on the effects of state government mandates for face mask use in public issued by fifteen states plus Washington, D.C., between April 8 and May 15, 2020. The research design is an event study examining changes in the daily county-level COVID-19 growth rates between March 31 and May 22, 2020. Mandating face mask use in public is associated with a decline in the daily COVID-19 growth rate by 0.9, 1.1, 1.4, 1.7, and 2.0 percentage points in 1–5, 6–10, 11–15, 16–20, and 21 or more days after state face mask orders were signed, respectively. Estimates suggest that as a result of the implementation of these mandates, more than 200,000 COVID-19 cases were averted by May 22, 2020. The findings suggest that requiring face mask use in public could help in mitigating the spread of COVID-19.

https://www.healthaffairs.org/doi/full/10.1377/hlthaff.2020.00818

You can’t study a mask mandate in a population where 95% of the people are not wearing masks.; 11/18/20, 6:54 PM
Jaq said...: N.B. Cherry picked graphs from Twitter do not refute the above study.; 11/18/20, 6:56 PM
n.n said...: My aim is to create a distinct Celti-Germanic ethnicity and ethnic consciousness. To that end I am looking to start a CeltiGerman website and blog.

Exactly. How can you have diversity if you mix the colors. You can't have diversity if you mix the colors. h/t Pink Floyd; 11/18/20, 6:56 PM
DavidUW said...: For those of you looking at the Danish study, also look at the Marines study.

Two large studies of several thousand people, the latter (the Marines) being particularly well controlled since they were all on base, etc etc.

Both show no benefit to masking. And for those saying the Danish study shows a [insignificant] trend to masks providing protection, the Marine study showed the opposite.

How many studies do you need to show that masks don't do anything?

Why, yes, it's hard to prove a negative.

But hey, let's move on to real world experience. Is there ANY evidence in the real world to show that masks have done ANYTHING to reduce the spread? Why again are we having a "second/third" wave?

Why? Because masks don't work. They don't work in controlled environments, they don't work in the real world. They don't work here nor there. They don't work anywhere. Masks are useless they are, masks are useless by far.; 11/18/20, 6:58 PM
stevew said...: My mother's family on her mother's side goes back to England, arrived here in 1635. All Irish on her father's side, dating their arrival to the later 1800's. My father's family are all Irish, his mother's family came here in the early 1800's, his father was born in Ireland, came here in 1899.; 11/18/20, 6:59 PM
Jersey Fled said...: Boy. Where to start.

Just to pick some low hanging fruit, the reason for the statistical uncertainty in the data was not because of a small sample size (3030 people) but because so few people caught the disease in both the masked and unmasked cohorts. 42 people in the masked group (1.8%) versus 53 in the control group (2.1%). This difference was "not statistically significant".

And since your reading comprehension is so much better than mine, please point out where in the study the the number of people infected by the 42 people in the masked group who caught the disease is enumerated, versus the 53 people in the control group. This is the data we would need to conclude that masks were effective in reducing the spread of the disease by infected people. All of the data collected was on the the number of people in the study who caught the disease, not how many people they in turn infected.; 11/18/20, 7:02 PM
mockturtle said...: In other news I traded the MB E350 Sport for a pickup. I live in Maine now, it's only right.

Good boy, stevew!; 11/18/20, 7:02 PM
Roughcoat said...: Mark:

Oh, golly. Tsk. Tsk.

Actually, you ignoramus, the Celts and the Germans are not of Aryan descent; they are Indo-Europeans, a heritaqe they share with the Aryans. The people who called themselves Aryans were an Indo-European ethno linguistic sub-group who migrated from the Indo-European homeland in South-Central Eurasia (Pontic Steppe region) into Northern Indian and the Near East c. 2000 B.C. give or take. The present-day Iranians (a cognate of "Aryan") and Kurds, among others, are direct descendants of the ancient Near Eastern Aryans, who found the great kingdom of Mitanni c. 1700 B.C.

That said: I am pleased with and proud of my Indo-European Celto-Germanic ancestry. If that offends you, go suck an egg.; 11/18/20, 7:05 PM
Jaq said...: I read a comment here that Iowa just implemented a mask mandate after cases spiked. Vermont implemented a mandate in August when cases were very low, this is called locking the barn door before the horse gets out. Iowa chose to do nothing and now they are locking the barn door after the horse is gone.

Vermont is #51 out of the states + DC in active cases per million population, and IOWA, a very similar state in a lot of ways, is now at #20.

It doesn’t matter. This is almost over anyways. So many governors have turned into totalitarians it’s kind of ridiculous. The masks are a symbol of their totalitarian tendencies to a lot of you, and I can’t really argue with that. It long ago stopped being about the science of it. Vermont has a Republican governor who won office with the support of the Libertarians and he has managed the crisis with a very light touch and done it remarkably well.; 11/18/20, 7:06 PM
walter said...: "UW-Madison is moving forward with a plan to remove a boulder from Observatory Hill after calls from students of color who see the rock as a painful reminder of the history of racism on campus.
The 70-ton boulder is officially known as Chamberlin Rock in honor of Thomas Crowder Chamberlin, a geologist and former university president. But the rock was referred to at least once after it was dug out of the hill as a "n****rhead,” a commonly used expression in the 1920s to describe any large dark rock.
The Campus Planning Committee unanimously voted last week to recommend to Chancellor Rebecca Blank that the boulder be removed from Observatory Hill. Blank has previously indicated she supports the rock’s removal, though a timeline for removal has not been established.
The Wisconsin Black Student Union called for the rock's removal over the summer. President Nalah McWhorter said the rock is a symbol of the daily injustices that students of color face on a predominantly white campus.
"This is a huge accomplishment for us," she said on Wednesday. "We won’t have that constant reminder, that symbol that we don’t belong here."
McWhorter also faulted the Wisconsin State Journal for printing the vulgarity in a 1925 news article.
A Wisconsin State Journal story from Oct. 9, 1925, about the effort to dig up and relocate the large boulder found embedded in Observatory Hill.
University historians identified the news story as the only known instance of the offensive term being used. It’s unclear whether or for how long people on campus referred to the boulder as "N****rhead Rock." The term itself appears to have fallen out of common usage by the 1950s.
<
UW-Madison needs to secure approval from the Wisconsin Historical Society before removal begins because the rock is located near an effigy mound.
The first step requires UW-Madison to submit a request to disturb a catalogued burial site. All Native Tribes of Wisconsin are notified during the process, which can take 60 to 90 days and includes a 30-day comment period. A qualified archeologist is also required to be on site during removal.
Officials estimate the cost of removal ranges from $30,000 to $75,000.
<
https://journaltimes.com/news/state-and-regional/uw-madison-moves-forward-with-plan-to-move-70-ton-boulder-seen-as-symbol-of/article_4339d5a2-89d1-5572-a3ed-d350ccc213a5.html; 11/18/20, 7:07 PM
n.n said...: Masks Are AZT, and FAUCI Knew It

Effectiveness of Adding a Mask Recommendation to Other Public Health Measures to Prevent SARS-CoV-2 Infection in Danish Mask Wearers
A Randomized Controlled Trial
...
the incidence of SARS-CoV-2 infection in mask wearers in a setting where social distancing and other public health measures were in effect, mask recommendations were not among those measures, and community use of masks was uncommon. Yet, the findings were inconclusive and cannot definitively exclude a 46% reduction to a 23% increase in infection of mask wearers in such a setting

Postoperative wound infections and surgical face masks: a controlled study

After 1,537 operations performed with face masks, 73 (4.7%) wound infections were recorded and, after 1,551 operations performed without face masks, 55 (3.5%) infections occurred.
...
Masks may be used to protect the operating team from drops of infected blood and from airborne infections, but have not been proven to protect the patient operated by a healthy operating team.

WHO, for one, doesn't advise the general population to wear masks. Until recently, neither did the CDC. The masks are veritable petri dishes and filters that capture and hold droplets until they evaporate and the material either ingested or blown out. Outside a limited frame of time and space, they encourage asymptomatic fecal transmission and cross-contamination.; 11/18/20, 7:08 PM
readering said...: Reported covid deaths pass a quarter million. Had Trump treated the pandemic seriously could he have gotten a third that many more votes in GA, AZ, WI and NE 2d District (where the Republican won the House seat)? Spread right, that would have taken Trump-Pence to 270.; 11/18/20, 7:09 PM
Howard said...: Joe Rogan Experience #1566 - Nicholas Christakis

4-slice Swiss cheese sandwich to lowering pandemic risk. All methods have holes, but enough in combination they mostly get covered up. Masks, social distance, smaller fewer groups, vaccine to healthcare, first responders, then to the healthy young social working spreaders.

This second wave is gonna be worst but the third and fourth waves will be better. Social distancing through 2022, Not normal until 2024. After that, the survivors are rewarded with the roaring 20's as pandemic inhibitions disappear in the endemic.

Winter makes the waves. Joe was pushing Vit D and general overall health as another slice of cheese and the doc promised to pass it along to people in the know.; 11/18/20, 7:11 PM
Michael K said...: When I was living in New Hampshire, I saw a Maine story you might be interested in steve. A couple had two Hummers. They had had one and a big pickup. The pickup got stuck in Maine mud and the Hummer had no trouble pulling it out. So they got another Hummer.; 11/18/20, 7:11 PM
NorthOfTheOneOhOne said...: Breezy said...

Do they not understand why the minority support increased under Trump?

No, they don't. They are wanting some kind of big dramatic summer blockbuster movie finish. Trump is some combination of Voldemort and Sauron in their eyes. They are incapable of seeing reality at this point.; 11/18/20, 7:12 PM
Jaq said...: Sorry Jersey, you are wrong. I am not going to do this all night, here is the excerpt again.

The most important limitation is that the findings are inconclusive, with CIs compatible with a 46% decrease to a 23% increase in infection.

Taken right from the linked study.

Here is more:

Our results suggest that the recommendation to wear a surgical mask when outside the home among others did not reduce, at conventional levels of statistical significance, the incidence of SARS-CoV-2 infection in mask wearers in a setting where social distancing and other public health measures were in effect, mask recommendations were not among those measures, and community use of masks was uncommon. Yet, the findings were inconclusive and cannot definitively exclude a 46% reduction to a 23% increase in infection of mask wearers in such a setting. It is important to emphasize that this trial did not address the effects of masks as source control or as protection in settings where social distancing and other public health measures are not in effect.

This isn’t even sporting. I am gonna watch a movie. You go ahead and read up on statistical significance yourself.; 11/18/20, 7:12 PM
Michael K said...: Blogger readering said...
Reported covid deaths pass a quarter million. Had Trump treated the pandemic seriously

You are about to explain what "seriously" means, I assume. Like Cuomo, who all you lefties are fellating? Is that it ?; 11/18/20, 7:14 PM
Drago said...: Dumb Lefty Mark: "Roughcoat looking to start an US group for those of Aryan descent."

Pictures from Trump's last "white supremacist" "klan" rally....in miami....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pNQL7CD2zc

Important Note: Dumb Leftists like Dumb Lefty Mark know, deep down, that all the spanish speakers and black attendees were CGI'd into the video because.....duh!

Obviously.; 11/18/20, 7:14 PM
Roughcoat said...: Like Cuomo, who all you lefties are fellating? Is that it ?

Now THAT'S funny!; 11/18/20, 7:16 PM
Chennaul said...: Here is a link to the report:

https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-6817

Setting:

Denmark, April and May 2020.

Limitation:

Inconclusive results, missing data, variable adherence, patient-reported findings on home tests, no blinding, and no assessment of whether masks could decrease disease transmission from mask wearers to others.

Primary Funding Source:

The Salling Foundations.

Here is a bit from wiki about The Salling Foundations:

Herman Christian Salling (born 20 November 1919 in Aarhus; died 8 May 2006) was a Danish merchant and director. He was a pioneer in the department store and retail business in Denmark.

Herman Salling was the son of local merchant Ferdinand Salling (1880 - 1953) who founded the Salling department store in 1906 in Aarhus. Herman inherited and became director of the Salling department store in 1953. He evolved the business and also started føtex in 1960, the first real supermarket in Denmark.[1] With Danish shipping businessman A.P. Møller, he founded Dansk Supermarked A/S in 1964.[2] In 1970, as part of the Dansk Supermarket Group, Herman Salling launched Bilka, the very first hypermarket in Denmark. Bilka is located in Tilst, a western suburb of Aarhus.

The Salling foundations

A memorial fund for Herman's father Ferdinand Salling was established in 1957 and in 1964 Herman Salling established his own foundation. The two foundations are collectively known as "Salling Fondene" (The Salling Foundations) and support selected local cultural projects in Aarhus financially.[3]

One of many donations went to the establishment of "Hermans" in 2013, a cultural venue in Tivoli Friheden, named after Herman Salling himself.; 11/18/20, 7:16 PM
Jersey Fled said...: Tim:

You are now at the throwing linguine against the wall stage.

This is what you do.

And you still haven't answered my question.

Hope you enjoy the movie.; 11/18/20, 7:17 PM
Owen said...: Roughcoat: I will check on the possibility of the dreaded French influence but for me the real draw is Five Nations. My dad was a rugby nut and we would be glued to the TV to watch those games. I wear the Draig Goch proudly on my drinking shirt.

Good luck with recruitment, I’ll throw in a tenner.; 11/18/20, 7:18 PM
n.n said...: "UW-Madison is moving forward with a plan to remove a boulder from Observatory Hill after calls from students of color who see the rock as a painful reminder of the history of racism on campus.

Colored people. White Hispanics? They're right that diversity (i.e. color judgment), not limited to racism, is a progressive condition. Don't exercise liberal license to indulge racists, sexists, politically congruent, and all manner of Pro-Choice believers. Such a burden. h/t Obama #BabyLivesMatter #HateLovesAbortion; 11/18/20, 7:18 PM
Birkel said...: tim in vermont, who cheered all the economic destruction, now decries all the politicians who will not yield their newfound powers.

This was predicted by me and others 8-9 months ago.
My reading comprehension is allegedly bad, however, so my track record of accurate predictions about the future should be disregarded.
Pay attention to that guy who pretends he is smarter than me but is consistently wrong.; 11/18/20, 7:19 PM
Drago said...: Breezy: "Do they not understand why the minority support increased under Trump?"

Actually, they are literally arguing that it never happened at all.

Like spying on the Trump campaign which the lefties have once again reversed themselves on and now claim never happened (before they admitted it happened but was completely justified....which was after they denied it ever happened).

Like antifa just being an idea and not even existing at all.

Like election fraud which democraticals were shouting to the rooftops about from 2016 on all the way up to September of this year and then, suddenly.........vanished....and never existed at all.

When people say that the marxists/commies/lefties/LLR-lefties first instinct is to airbrush/rewrite history (hello 1619 Project!) while censoring (or worse) political opponents, well, its not really arguable anymore, is it? Not that it ever was of course.; 11/18/20, 7:20 PM
Chennaul said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 11/18/20, 7:22 PM
stevew said...: Great story Michael K. Perhaps I can have an aftermarket winch installed. :-)

RE: Covid transmission. We really have no freakin' idea how this thing shambles about, do we? No matter what "serious" measures are tried it continues its inexorable march through the population. Resistance is futile. Protection of the vulnerable is everything.; 11/18/20, 7:22 PM
Freeman Hunt said...: What are singles who were looking doing during this pandemic? Are people still dating? Is it limited? Are there fewer marriages than usual?; 11/18/20, 7:23 PM
Rory said...: "Wash your hands.
Get some fresh air and sunshine.
All else is propaganda."

Just flabbergasted to drive up to a nearby park, find it gated, "Closed for the Winter." I'm going to work on the township council about it.; 11/18/20, 7:23 PM
Roughcoat said...: I'm having minor surgery next week, and during my pre-surgery screening phone call I was asked to identify my race. I answered that I was "Indo-European."

The person I was talking to asked if that meant I was of mixed race. I said, "sure, why not?"

Turnabout is fair play in this mixed up, muddled up, shook up world.; 11/18/20, 7:24 PM
Chennaul said...: Maybe I should have bolded this section from the very report itself—from the afore mentioned Danish mask “study”:

Limitation:

Inconclusive results, missing data, variable adherence, patient-reported findings on home tests, no blinding, and no assessment of whether masks could decrease disease transmission from mask wearers to others.; 11/18/20, 7:26 PM
readering said...: "You are about to explain what 'seriously' means"

Like Pence and other original members of the covid task force.; 11/18/20, 7:28 PM
Ignorance is Bliss said...: n.n said

Outside a limited frame of time and space, they encourage asymptomatic fecal transmission and cross-contamination.

You might be wearing it wrong...; 11/18/20, 7:29 PM
Birkel said...: Chennaul:
The study you want to imply is worthless is - however - consistent with every other study regarding masks that was published in the years 1 through 2019.

I like my odds.; 11/18/20, 7:29 PM
Roughcoat said...: Owen (great Welsh name, BTW): Thanks!

Hold on to that tenner for when we have our first "board meeting" (*cough cough*) at a suitably welcoming Irish pub (with lots of craic), or a gemütlichkeit German Hofbrauhaus.

I intend to move forward with this. It should keep me happily busy during the long pandemic winter ahead. I'll keep you posted on what transpires.; 11/18/20, 7:32 PM
Andrew said...: "UW-Madison is moving forward with a plan to remove a boulder from Observatory Hill after calls from students of color who see the rock as a painful reminder of the history of racism on campus."

Can't they just rename it? Or paint it black and call it "BLM Rock"? Or how about "Blackety Black Black Rock"?

The idea that a boulder is a "painful reminder" of anything is complete absurdity. Someone needs to tell these children to grow up. How wonderful it would be if one university president were to refuse to give in to the racialist bullying. I bet enrollment would increase.; 11/18/20, 7:32 PM
Birkel said...: Andrew:
What is better than universities revealing their utter worthlessness as places that foster critical thinking skills?
What could be better than the moral bankruptcy being followed by financial bankruptcy?

I encourage stupid people to continue to corrupt and pervert the university system until it collapses from its inherent stupidity.; 11/18/20, 7:37 PM
Chennaul said...: Chennaul:
The study you want to imply is worthless is - however - consistent with every other study regarding masks that was published in the years 1 through 2019.

I like my odds.

............

Okay, so would you sign a contract for money with a “limitations” warning like that? (Also something that is from Denmark during April in a completely different COVID environment.); 11/18/20, 7:37 PM
Joe Smith said...: I want to come back in the next life as a good-looking black guy (or gal).

12 percent of the population, but in 5 out of 5 (in a row) commercials that just ran during the show I'm watching.

I'll make a killing : ); 11/18/20, 7:38 PM
BUMBLE BEE said...: As always follow the money. Billion a week in Rona Testing? Masks or "Face Coverings". I still wanna see the hazmat disposal for the masks. Most dangerous virus evah! Therefore your mask is a potential Bio Weapon. Q.E.D.

https://summit.news/2020/11/18/top-pathologist-claims-coronavirus-is-the-greatest-hoax-ever-perpetrated-on-an-unsuspecting-public/; 11/18/20, 7:39 PM
J. Farmer said...: @Roughcoat:

My aim is to create a distinct Celti-Germanic ethnicity and ethnic consciousness.

You could call it American ;)

My ancestry is about 3/4 north English and lowland Scots, 10% Irish, 7% Norwegian, and 3% French. They apparently immigrated to the Carolinas sometime in the mid-18th century and then to west Florida after the Civil War.

American Anglo-Saxonism was an effort to combine the English (and Welsh and Lowland Scots) into a single ethnic identity rooted in Germanic origin exclusive of the Irish. However, this idea later expanded and Germans, Brits, and Irish identified as "Nordic" or "Germanic" peoples.; 11/18/20, 7:41 PM
rehajm said...: Outside a limited frame of time and space, they encourage asymptomatic fecal transmission and cross-contamination.

Significant data point for the group telling the other where to stick them...; 11/18/20, 7:41 PM
Roughcoat said...: Joe Smith:

Remember when, several years back, it was all the rage to cast Asians in commercials. Also to have them as newscasters on local news programs. It seemed that every nightly news program had their Connie Chung.

Boy, did that trend fall off, or what.; 11/18/20, 7:45 PM
Humperdink said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 11/18/20, 7:47 PM
Humperdink said...: @Roughcoat. 1/4 Irish, 3/4 German. Grandfather on my mother's side was the Irishman. My mother would relate stories of her mother sending her to fish him out of the local pub during the day. He was a union rabble rouser who spent his afternoons "organizing" (Pittsburgh area 1930's).; 11/18/20, 7:48 PM
Birkel said...: Chennaul:
And would you take a drug with all the limitations on those labels?

The answer is plainly yes and people do what you pretend is interesting all the time.
Again, all the studies published in every year from 10,000 BC until 2019 AD provided no reason to believe masks were an effective tool to prevent viral contagion compared to the costs of increased bacterial infection.

Trade-offs.; 11/18/20, 7:51 PM
rehajm said...: Vermont has a Republican governor who won office with the support of the Libertarians

It's because all you twits all cheered for the passage of universal healthcare...and then you saw the bill...; 11/18/20, 7:52 PM
Joe Smith said...: Back in my designer days I did a lot of product brochures...mostly tech.

We used whoever looked good and thought about the demographics only as it related to who we wanted to buy the product.

i.e. you don't spend $100k on a plan to market golf clubs to people who only play cricket...

So, market to your customers who already have your product (makes them feel good) or those that you want to buy your product.

But the whole white (check), Asian (check), black (check), disabled (check) thing is so obvious...pandering pure and simple.

And don't even get me started on the 80 percent of American couple who are now apparently interracial : ); 11/18/20, 7:53 PM
roger said...: Roughcoat:

If that offends you, go suck an egg. There is German word for that.; 11/18/20, 7:53 PM
Yancey Ward said...: I see Tim is going to go down with the masked Captain Smith.

No study even really supports the use of masks in surgery, for goodness sake. The Danish study shows exactly what I predicted it would show- no statistical difference. As far as Vermont, goes, the mask mandates ain't stopping the Fall wave there either, though the true New Englanders aren't being hit hard yet (VT, NH, and ME), and they may not be, but it won't have a fucking thing to do with masks or no masks.; 11/18/20, 7:56 PM
Roughcoat said...: However, this idea later expanded and Germans, Brits, and Irish identified as "Nordic" or "Germanic" peoples.

HA HA HA HA! The deuce you say! Where I grew up (Chicago), no self-respecting Irish-American would identify as a Brit. Are you effin' kidding me? Any Mick who pulled that stunt in his local pub amidst a group of fellow boyos would have been ... well, I shudder to think. Sure, his fate would not have been pleasant.

My grandmother (mother's mother) inculcated in me at an early age a depthless antipathy toward the English. Including the Scots-Irish.

And no, I would not "call it American." That would be defeating my purpose, dontcha think?

She was okay with the Germans, however. After all her daughter (my mother) married one.; 11/18/20, 7:58 PM
rehajm said...: And don't even get me started on the 80 percent of American couple who are now apparently interracial : )

I haven't Googled 'white couple' lately...yep. Still kinda works...; 11/18/20, 7:58 PM
Lem Vibe Bandit said...: As per NY Post story...

Megyn Kelly said she yanked her two young sons out of their “woke” Upper West Side private school — where a letter allegedly circulated accusing white people of “reveling in state-sanctioned depravity” and comparing white children to “killer cops.”

Skipping down...

“There is a killer cop sitting in every school where white children learn,” the June 29 post says. “They gleefully soak in their whitewashed history that downplays the holocaust of indigenous native peoples and Africans in the Americas. They happily believe their all-white spaces exist as a matter of personal effort and willingly use violence against black bodies to keep those spaces white.”

...“I am tired of white people reveling in their state-sanctioned depravity, snuffing out black life with no consequences. Where’s the urgency for school reform for white kids being indoctrinated in black death and protected from the consequences? Where are the government-sponsored reports looking into how white mothers are raising culturally deprived children who think black death is okay?”

Via James Woods tweet.; 11/18/20, 7:59 PM
Michael K said...: Blogger readering said...
"You are about to explain what 'seriously' means"

Like Pence and other original members of the covid task force.

You man Fauci? OK I can agree with that. I was fond of all the Democrat politicians who blasted Trump for stopping travel from China.; 11/18/20, 7:59 PM
Yancey Ward said...: Yeah, if Trump had taken it as seriously as the British, the French, the Italians, the Spanish, and governor Cuomo, he could have saved........wait for it........nobody.; 11/18/20, 7:59 PM
mockturtle said...: Roughcoat: I'm going to do the same thing. Now that I've found out I'm 1% Bantu I'm going to identify my race as 'mixed'. While 'race' may play a role in certain diseases and disorders, the main reason they want to know is for their own demographic data.; 11/18/20, 7:59 PM
Yancey Ward said...: And, to be honest, if he had taken it as seriously as Andrew Cuomo, there might be a million dead right now, or more.; 11/18/20, 8:00 PM
Roughcoat said...: Humperdink: Welcome, fellow Celto-Germanic kinsman!; 11/18/20, 8:00 PM
mockturtle said...: And don't even get me started on the 80 percent of American couple who are now apparently interracial : )

I assume you mean in TV commercials, right?; 11/18/20, 8:01 PM
Joe Smith said...: "If that offends you, go suck an egg. There is German word for that."

Suckenfreude?; 11/18/20, 8:03 PM
Yancey Ward said...: It is sort of comical how no one who spent months critiquing Trump on COVID by pointing to Europe this Summer wants to even talk about Europe now.

If viruses were sentient, they would be laughing their asses off at our non-medical interventions. It is almost like every intervention we do now is the exact opposite of effective. At some point, we have to acknowledge that none of this is a mistake.; 11/18/20, 8:03 PM
I'm Not Sure said...: “I am tired of white people reveling in their state-sanctioned depravity, snuffing out black life with no consequences."

White people are forcing blacks to abort their babies? Color me skeptical.; 11/18/20, 8:04 PM
Joe Smith said...: "I assume you mean in TV commercials, right?"

Yes...; 11/18/20, 8:05 PM
Roughcoat said...: mockturtle:

LOL! Go for it!

Like all people of northern European ancestry, I have Neanderthal DNA -- 4 percent, which is relatively high. I wonder if I can use that to advantage? As in, "Dude, I'm not only mixed race, I'm mixed [sub]species! You've GOT to hire me!"

When I showed the Neanderthal information to my wife, she rolled her eyes and said, "It figures."; 11/18/20, 8:08 PM
narciso said...: https://www.commdiginews.com/politics-2/swiss-and-aussies-find-a-critical-flaw-in-scytl-software-that-the-us-ignores-134093/; 11/18/20, 8:12 PM
Marcus Bressler said...: My father was of German ancestry and my mother of Irish. Both sets of grandparents came over on the boats. Based on this, I didn't stand a chance against alcohol.

THEOLDMAN

So many TV commercials with happy, handsome white men and their happy, beautiful, black wives. Howz bout some realistic commercials: couples of any color, shape, size and appearance, wishing they could buy Progressive Insurance but their car was repossessed because their Dem governor shut down their respective industries.; 11/18/20, 8:12 PM
Joe Smith said...: "So many TV commercials with happy, handsome white men and their happy, beautiful, black wives."

I guess it's no different than cop shows, where the female cop could moonlight as a runway model.

Nice to look at, but I prefer my crime stories gritty and realistic...

It's like micro-preaching : ); 11/18/20, 8:18 PM
Roughcoat said...: Marcus: I hear you, bro. I didn't stand a chance either. I drank my quota and then some. Boy did I ever. But I quit over 20 years ago, been clean and sober since. The only alcohol I've had in all the years between then and now is communion wine. And that doesn't affect me because, well, not to put too fine a point on it -- by the time it passes my lips it's not wine, it's the blood of Christ.; 11/18/20, 8:18 PM
J. Farmer said...: Roughcoat:

HA HA HA HA! The deuce you say! Where I grew up (Chicago), no self-respecting Irish-American would identify as a Brit.

Undoubtedly. American Anglo-Saxonism was very anti-Celtic in its orientation, being in part a justification for British conquest of Ireland and a reaction to Irish and Highland Scots immigration to America in the 19th century. Grouping English and Celtic and Germans under the category of "Nordic" or "Teutonic" was a component of physical anthropology in the late 19th century. Ripley's The Races of Europe is an early example, published the same year as Huston Chamberlain's The Foundations of the Nineteenth Century. These ideas would go on to influence Lothrop Stoddard's The Rising Tide of Color Against White World-Supremacy and Madison Grant's The Passing of the Great Race.; 11/18/20, 8:18 PM
Birkel said...: Well my Cherokee, Puerto Rican, Irish, German, English, Black ass thinks the talk of all the multiculturalism is silly.

Now I want to know how much Neanderthal I have in me.; 11/18/20, 8:21 PM
stevew said...: Yancey for the win! Was it Bagoh20 that pointed out early on that "flattening the curve" just extends the spread over a longer time, it does not reduce the spread? The only appropriate course of action is to protect those we know to be vulnerable. For everyone else: as you were.; 11/18/20, 8:23 PM
Roughcoat said...: I am tired of white people reveling in their state-sanctioned depravity, snuffing out black life with no consequences.

In Chicago the only people engaged in snuffing out black lives are gun-toting black youths. And abortion clinics.

Black-on-black violence accounts for well over 90 percent of all black homicides. Go to heyjackass.com for the relevant statistics.; 11/18/20, 8:26 PM
Owen said...: Roughcoat @ 7:32: “...I intend to move forward with this...”. Could be a lot of fun. Best Luck. In lieu of the tenner, i herewith contribute the classic Welsh toast: “Iechyd Da,” or “Good Health.” Let it be uttered often in good fellowship at many meetings.; 11/18/20, 8:26 PM
rehajm said...: Just looking at a chart of UK cases by month. If I didn't know better I'd say there was a strong correlation with out door temperature 🥴; 11/18/20, 8:27 PM
donald said...: I met the most beautiful girl ever just walking down the beach Freeman Hunt. Changed my life.; 11/18/20, 8:30 PM
J. Farmer said...: Well my Cherokee, Puerto Rican, Irish, German, English, Black ass thinks the talk of all the multiculturalism is silly.

Not only silly but self-defeating. The entire point of culture is to define a people as unique from all other people. It's the foundation of ethnic identity and the modern nation-state.; 11/18/20, 8:31 PM
DavidUW said...: It is sort of comical how no one who spent months critiquing Trump on COVID by pointing to Europe this Summer wants to even talk about Europe now.
....

If anyone would listen/pay attention, the only correlation to infection rate is spending time indoors from all appearances. Which is why the "summer" wave here hit the hotter states like Texas, Florida and AZ where people were inside with A/C and didn't occur in Europe where barely anyone has A/C and certainly with their summers off are not spending it indoors.

Now, it's barely a blip again in Texas, FL, AZ, etc but is infecting the norther tier of states and Europe as it gets darker and colder. Weird.

Just get vaccinated and by April it's all over.; 11/18/20, 8:32 PM
Nichevo said...: -Biden win revives immigration talk

We really could use Jeff Sessions in the Senate.

11/18/20, 5:44 PM

How is somebody so smart, so stupid? Maybe we could use President Trump in the White House!; 11/18/20, 8:36 PM
FullMoon said...: Re those broken avatars, you guys breaking the google rules. Not bad enough to require censorship-yet.

"The image was not shown due to the following reason(s):

The photo has been removed due to Google's content policy."; 11/18/20, 8:37 PM
readering said...: Travel from China!; 11/18/20, 8:38 PM
I'm Full of Soup said...: Freeman: I’ve heard of a lot of wedding dates being set out further than usual. My niece is pregnant with her first- due in
April. So life goes on - it’s so good to hear young people getting on with starting a family!; 11/18/20, 8:40 PM
Sally327 said...: The government isn't really going to forgive student loans. It's going to pay the lenders off, using taxpayer money. Will that be beneficial to society as a whole? I don't know. It seems as though the forgiven debtors will have more spending power to buy goods and services in the marketplace and they will be paying taxes as well so they will be shouldering some of the burden for the bailout. And the lenders who get paid can relend that money or use it however. So maybe that's all good.

The problem is what happens next since obviously the student loan programs need to go away. What happens next should be to make education truly affordable without going into debt but that isn't going to happen because there are too many vested interests that have driven the price tag up. This means that what will happen next is everybody who wants it gets a free ride courtesy of the taxpayer. Except that is what got us in this mess to begin with. Making higher education "affordable" with student loan programs drove down the value of that education.

I don't especially care that I paid my student loans off and someone else won't have to since there are plenty of government programs I have never benefited from.; 11/18/20, 8:44 PM
roesch/voltaire said...: Why not take a look at the country’s that have reduced the threat of Covid like Halifax or Twain where they had an early
Lock downs and now practice wearing masks, keeping social distance, low numbers of group meeting, or is evidence based examples Beyond the grasp of Trump folks?; 11/18/20, 8:45 PM
Readering said...: So Trump has basically admitted to folks in his inner circle that he is just doing this to f*ck things up enough for Biden that his chances for '24 will be improved.; 11/18/20, 8:50 PM
mockturtle said...: We really could use Jeff Sessions in the Senate.

For what?; 11/18/20, 8:50 PM
Roughcoat said...: American Anglo-Saxonism was very anti-Celtic in its orientation, being in part a justification for British conquest of Ireland and a reaction to Irish and Highland Scots immigration to America in the 19th century.

Two points.

American Anglo-Saxonism with its antipathy for the Celts was not a justification for the British conquest of Ireland. You know this, I'm sure. I think you meant to say something else with that sentence. Of course, the "conquest" of Ireland by the inhabitants of what is now Britain commenced in the 12th century, well before the formation of a "British" or an "English" identity. The first wave of conquerors were Norman (i.e., Gaulicized Scandinavians) who hired out their services to warring Irish kings, only to turn on their employers and form a ruling Norman-substrate ... which was rather quickly absorbed into the body of Gaelic society. The Normans loved the Irish way of things, and would say of themselves: "Hibernoris hibernis ipsos," i.e., "We are more Irish than the Irish."

My matrilineal Irish surnames are Burke and Luttrell, which are both Norman in origin. However, I suspect that I am in part the descendant of Irish peasants who took their lord's Norman surname as their own, a common practice. As it happens, Burke is one of the four most common surnames in Ireland (I think Murphy, or Murphaigh in Gaelic, is number one, but I'm not sure of that.)

That said: my DNA markers show that I am one-third Danish Scandinavian in ancestry, and that could have only come from Ireland, i.e. from Danish Vikings who settled the littoral of Eire and from the Scandinavian Normans.

Second point: Highland Scots immigration to America peaked in the 18th century, well before the great wave of Irish Immigration in the mid-19th century, caused by the An Gorta Mor, the Great Hunger -- i.e., the Famine.; 11/18/20, 8:50 PM
Achilles said...: J. Farmer said...

We really could use Jeff Sessions in the Senate.

Actually it is looking more and more like the Senate and Congress just needs to go. And everyone else.

10% approval and 95%re-election is easier to explain with some of the Dominion/Smartmatic stuff coming out right now.

Even Cruz is all talk.

Rand is just too much of a wimp.

Everything about our "elected" government is starting to stink.; 11/18/20, 8:52 PM
Roughcoat said...: Owen:

From your lips to God's ears!

And right back atcha: Sláinte is táinte!; 11/18/20, 8:55 PM
Achilles said...: Readering said...

So Trump has basically admitted to folks in his inner circle that he is just doing this to f*ck things up enough for Biden that his chances for '24 will be improved.

Lying Russia Hoax troll takes a break from bs conspiracies based on proven fabrications to do some mind reading.

And then claim that 2020 was the first perfectly clean election in history.; 11/18/20, 8:55 PM
Rt41Rebel said...: "So Trump has basically admitted to folks in his inner circle that he is just doing this to f*ck things up enough for Biden that his chances for '24 will be improved."

Good.; 11/18/20, 8:55 PM
Sally327 said...: I wonder, do multiple text messages in a day, from Mitch and Tim and Lindsay, all informing me that life as we know it will come to an end on January 5 if the Democrats win the Georgia runoff elections and unless I donate now, do those work on other people? The tone borders on apocalyptic but unlike a televangelist's appeal, I am not going to receive a specially embroidered prayer bracelet in the mail once they receive my love offering. Not even a mug with my favorite GOP senator's face on it.; 11/18/20, 8:55 PM
Roughcoat said...: Above, @10:50: I mean to say "a ruling Norman superstrate", not substrate. Apologies.; 11/18/20, 8:57 PM
Qwinn said...: Sure, Readering. Let me guess the source for that. Another "senior administration official" who will eventually turn out to be a 24 year old Who was briefly an assistant to an assistant to an assistant to someone who has limited access to the White House and now wants to impress the girl in the cubicle next to him at Google?; 11/18/20, 8:59 PM
Sally327 said...: I wonder if Althouse would make a lot of money is she moved over to Substack.; 11/18/20, 9:00 PM
Hey Skipper said...: Tim in Vermont: The way you study mask mandates is to compare the growth rate of the virus in areas of the country were he have them to areas that we do not, basically.

There is a better, and far faster, way.

Dental hygienists and hair stylists work in very close proximity to their clients. Everywhere that mandates masks requires stylists’ clients wear masks. Obviously, those in the dentist’s chair can’t wear a mask.

If masks protect others, then the Commie Cough infection rate among hygienists must be far greater than that for hair stylists.

Such a study is so simple, and obvious, one wonders why it hasn’t been done already.; 11/18/20, 9:01 PM
narciso said...: If they would just change the rules of mail in ballots they wouldnt be facing this problem, also if they had a more lively candidate then fowler; 11/18/20, 9:03 PM
Sally327 said...: If she moved over to Substack.

My Kindle fire always auto corrects Althouse to Although. As in I wonder if Although would make a lot of money...; 11/18/20, 9:03 PM
walter said...: "So Trump has basically admitted to folks in his inner circle that he is just doing this to f*ck things up enough for Biden that his chances for '24 will be improved."
Right.
So Sidney Powell will be unfortunate collateral damage.
Got it.; 11/18/20, 9:04 PM
Big Mike said...: Now I want to know how much Neanderthal I have in me.

Is your hair red? The gene for red hair seems to have come into our genome from the Neaderthals.; 11/18/20, 9:04 PM
walter said...: Carrot Top!; 11/18/20, 9:06 PM
Sally327 said...: I wonder what effect shows like The Walking Dead have on our view of the COVID-19 pandemic. Like, it isn't as bad as that so it's mostly okay.; 11/18/20, 9:07 PM
Roughcoat said...: The Highland Scots immigration to North America got kick-started in a big way by the so-called Highland Clearances (Fuadaichean nan Gàidheal in Scottish Gaelic) which began in 1750 and lasted through c. 1860. The Clearances destroyed the clan system based on the ancient-beyond-reckoning Indo-European practice of bovine husbandry. It is true that Highland Scots immigration in the early-to-mid 1800s was substantial but the dynamic period was from 1750 to the turn of the 19th century when vast numbers of Highlanders were suddenly thrown off their ancestral clan lands by the Clearances (and, relatedly, by the introduction of Merino sheep that quickly and totally eradicated the cattle-based clan system and economy).; 11/18/20, 9:10 PM
narciso said...: One felt sympathetic for the walkers after season 1; 11/18/20, 9:11 PM
Sally327 said...: I wonder who's going to sing at the Biden inauguration. It will have to be virtual, correct? The whole thing really. That might be for the best. It would solve some pesky protocol issues. As in Trump won't need to show up.; 11/18/20, 9:12 PM
Roughcoat said...: 2-3 percent Neanderthal DNA is typical, and not insubstantial.

The theory that red hair comes from Neanderthals is controversial, but seems to be gaining ground in recent years. It's one of those theories the discussion of which caused fistfights between otherwise nerdy scholarly/scientific types at academic conferences.; 11/18/20, 9:13 PM
Guildofcannonballs said...: It's funny when Satan rules the Vatican Althouse supports in various ways the Catholic control of America's government institutions.; 11/18/20, 9:14 PM
narciso said...: There were some terrible popes, it doesnt mean the original message of christianity ie wrong

https://mobile.twitter.com/LeeSmithDC/status/1329244994213974019; 11/18/20, 9:16 PM
wild chicken said...: "We really have no freakin' idea how this thing shambles about, do we?"

The stepdaughter got it. Worst headache and cough e et. Her husband never got sick. Her son got it, but not his wife. All are in small houses and couldn't isolate.

Crazy.; 11/18/20, 9:18 PM
Achilles said...: Another possibility.

Currently filing it under too good to be true.

But. Trump has been a step ahead of these people for 5 years. It would fit his MO.

And the way everyone is acting now this makes more sense.

I wonder what the back channel talks with the Biden team are like right now.; 11/18/20, 9:18 PM
wild chicken said...: (Worst) ever; 11/18/20, 9:18 PM
J. Farmer said...: @Roughcoat:

American Anglo-Saxonism with its antipathy for the Celts was not a justification for the British conquest of Ireland. You know this, I'm sure. I think you meant to say something else with that sentence.

Apologies. My desire for brevity has outstripped my desire for clarity. My reference was to the British response to the 1798 Rebellion and the subsequent uniting of Great Britain and Ireland. In the years that followed, many English thinkers began to regard the Irish in explicitly racial terms. Many believed the Irish were comparable to American Indians and largely incapable of civilized self-rule. These ideas traveled to America and over the course of the century developed into various racial sub-classification schemes for Europe, where it mainly served to divide Northern Europeans from Southern Europeans and Eastern Europeans.; 11/18/20, 9:22 PM
Francisco D said...: Michael K said...A couple had two Hummers. They had had one and a big pickup. The pickup got stuck in Maine mud and the Hummer had no trouble pulling it out. So they got another Hummer.

One of the advantages of a 4Runner TRD is that I can make a few extra bucks pulling Jeeps and Hummers out of the ditch.

Of course there is always the high resale value and low maintenance for a simple middle class guy like me.; 11/18/20, 9:25 PM
narciso said...: I think it was more sectarian than ethnic animosity, they did get along with protesfant irish for the most part.; 11/18/20, 9:31 PM
I'm Not Sure said...: "The stepdaughter got it. Worst headache and cough e et. Her husband never got sick. Her son got it, but not his wife. All are in small houses and couldn't isolate.

Crazy."

Crazy?

From Wikipedia:

Over 700 people out of 3,711 became infected...

From NPR:

Approximately 400 U.S. citizens are aboard the Diamond Princess. According to Anthony Fauci, director of the U.S. National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, 44 Americans on the cruise ship have been infected, though not all are sick.

Just sayin'.; 11/18/20, 9:32 PM
roesch/voltaire said...: The only things Trump seems to be doing these days is ride around on his golf cart and firing people who take theirs
Oaths to the law seriously by tweet,an absurd example of what white privilege can get away with.; 11/18/20, 9:32 PM
I'm Not Sure said...: My previous comment is related to the Diamond Princess cruise ship quarantine. Sorry for not being clearer.; 11/18/20, 9:34 PM
Guildofcannonballs said...: I said I'd write it in 2020 but I don't believe you people are worth writing much for.

Langan might think you're worthy, but not me.

https://twitter.com/RealChrisLangan; 11/18/20, 9:36 PM
Rt41Rebel said...: "Like, it isn't as bad as that so it's mostly okay."

It IS mostly okay.; 11/18/20, 9:39 PM
Matthew Heintz said...: I propose a motto for the new inter-racial genetic German-Irish mishmash hodgepodge cornucopianic fraternity : Erin Go Frau !; 11/18/20, 9:40 PM
Roughcoat said...: Farmer @9:22:

Yes, that's pretty much what I thought you were getting at.

One quibble: English disdain for the Irish as their racial inferiors long predates the 1798 Rebellion. But one must be aware that "race" and matters racial had a different meaning before our more enlightened era. Race and ethnicity and culture had overlapping meanings. Back in days of yore it was common and acceptable to refer, e.g., to an "Irish race" or a "France race" or a "Jewish race", both with and without opprobrium. In particular race and ethnicity were conceptually interchangeable; thus, antipathy on the part of one ethnic group toward the other might be referred to in racial terms even as it was based on cultural antipathies as well as physical differences.

Let's not forget that there was a time, long long long ago, when your race, ethnicity, culture, and language were all bound to together.; 11/18/20, 9:42 PM
Roughcoat said...: Matthew Heintz: LOL!; 11/18/20, 9:43 PM
Guildofcannonballs said...: Nancy, the most powerful person ever, in the history of Earth at least, along with Joe and 6 (!) Catholics on the SCOTUS means Althouse's* "Hell" years ago is actually her Heaven.

Perhaps things will, pendulum-wise, swing back toward Jesus and away from Satan.

*Not really, like almost everything she practically believes

Still, all in all, maybe allowing Trump and his 73 million voters a few moments of acknowledgement of superior victory given the historic nature of the win Trump enjoys, the most votes ever for a president in America. The most ever, given a term, America has shown their love for the Commander in Chief.

Quite extraordinary, as even, perhaps especially, Chris... Hitchens would have forced tribals to grip-with wisdom-wise.; 11/18/20, 9:44 PM
Narr said...: I should be a founding member!

Have I ever mentioned my German paternal ancestry? Opa was from Hamburg and Oma from Bokel-bei-Stubben, circa 1885 and 1889. That's all we know for sure about the German-Northern European--Scandinavian -Swedish side (I combine terminology and locations from two brand name tests here, from memory).

Ma's lines are better documented and reach farther back; my mother's family name is north British and her mother's family name is MacCallum (i.e. Malcolm). They include mostly settlers direct to the Carolinas and thence west, and include Scots-Irish for certain sure, along with some Murphys and other Celtic lines (described by the DNA tests as British Isles, Northern Europe etc).

A schmear of Jewish apparently (explains the, well, you know the thing), and a dash of Neanderthal (explains the immense physical strength).

As for no Frogs allowed, I invite you to consume a bag of your favorite penii.

Narr
They named the g.d. country after MY Germanic tribe; 11/18/20, 9:47 PM
Narr said...: 2020: The Year of the Immaculate Election.

Narr
I credit Trump; 11/18/20, 9:50 PM
Tommy Duncan said...: "UW-Madison is moving forward with a plan to remove a boulder from Observatory Hill after calls from students of color who see the rock as a painful reminder of the history of racism on campus."

It's a fucking rock. It can't move. It can't communicate. It never offended anyone. Leave the damned thing alone and get a life.

This crap is a painful reminder of how stupid and dishonest some groups of people are.; 11/18/20, 9:54 PM
William said...: I'm more Irish than anything else. Even my German ancestors were part Irish apparently. My German ancestors on my mother's side were a dissolute bunch. They were also Jewish and Danish. There was a lot of bed hopping in Schleswig-Holstein before Bismarck took it over and tamped things down.....Irish history is full of famines and futility. I don't like to read it, and I'm not especially knowledgeable. I get the impression that not all conquerors were exactly conquerors. The Vikings conquered the area around Dublin, married nice Irish girls, settled down and themselves became Gaelic speaking Irish. Ditto with the Normans. Even some of Cromwell's troops--the enlisted men who were given small farms in Ireland--became Irish. The exception were the aristocrats of the Anglo Ascendancy,but even here it's tricky. Some like Wolfe Tone and Parnell were Irish nationalists.....Growing up, I knew a lot of first generation Irish. I didn't have the same reflexes they did on a lot of subjects....The American Adam. We're born again in this country. We don't have the same grudges and causes that drove our forefathers to murder each other. The down side is that while we are absolved of our European sins, we are white in America and therefore guilty of racism and genocide. Win some, lose some.; 11/18/20, 9:54 PM
Churchy LaFemme: said...: If she moved over to Substack.

My Kindle fire always auto corrects Althouse to Although. As in I wonder if Although would make a lot of money...

My mind, on the other hand, corrected that to: If she moved over to Starbucks.; 11/18/20, 9:59 PM
Owen said...: Roughcoat @ 9:10: your description of the collapse of the Scottish economy and consequent migration of its talent into other realms, not least our own continent, reminds me of Herman’s wonderful 2001 book, “How The Scots Invented The Modern World.” Between their industry and genius, and that of the Irish, the contribution of the Celtic peoples to Western civilization is more than considerable. Of course, now it drives us to endless genuflection for making other groups feel inadequate.

/snark

To all on this thread: are you familiar with the YouTubes by Ivar Cummins, handily demolishing the Dem Panic; I mean, pandemic. Brace yourselves: he uses facts and logic.; 11/18/20, 10:01 PM
Gospace said...: Roughcoat said...
However, this idea later expanded and Germans, Brits, and Irish identified as "Nordic" or "Germanic" peoples.

HA HA HA HA! The deuce you say! Where I grew up (Chicago), no self-respecting Irish-American would identify as a Brit. Are you effin' kidding me? Any Mick who pulled that stunt in his local pub amidst a group of fellow boyos would have been ... well, I shudder to think. Sure, his fate would not have been pleasant.

One of the distinct memories of my maternal grandfather is his railing against the d--n papists. Didn't stop him from marrying one. Her parents came off the boat from Ireland. My grandfather from what I can trace is mostly Scottish with some English, French Huguenots, and a smattering of others. My current DNA breakdown from Ancestry is:

Scotland
40%
Ireland
36%
England & Northwestern Europe
24%
Additional Communities
Lower Midwest & Virginia Settlers
From your regions: England & Northwestern Europe; Scotland
2 Possible Ancestor Stories Found
Virginia Settlers
Nova Scotia & Prince Edward Island Settlers
From your regions: England & Northwestern Europe; Ireland; Scotland
Prince Edward Island Settlers

Which is pretty much exactly what I can trace on my tree. I guess they include Welsh with the English.

But most liberals who lump all Europeans descended people together as "white" in the U.S. are not aware of the ethnic and religious rivalries that exist in Europe. You didn't dare call my wife's grandmother German- she was BOHEMIAN! And don't you forget it! In Great Britain there's not a lot of intermarriage between Catholics and Protestants- and I think that holds true for all of Europe. Here? Pretty common. As in between my wife and I, and between the two of my male children who are so far married. Although one of the wives converted... and hasn't yet told her mother. Scots, Irish, Welsh, and English don't intermarry much in Great Britain. Almost everyone in America whose ancestry traces back to before 1776 is a mixture of all of them. And German. Although back then it wasn't Germany they came from.; 11/18/20, 10:08 PM
Birkel said...: Oh, Smug.
Your conception of ethnicity as central versus the American melting pot is one of the very many reasons I will never take you seriously.

Now, if we were to discuss the necessary melting and mixing that the globalists have insured has not happened, perhaps we could find common ground. Culture matters and is not connected to genetics; it is taught, learned, and enforced.; 11/18/20, 10:11 PM
Owen said...: Correction to my post @ 10:01: it’s Ivor Cummins.

A recent sample: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mboEkVl9ooc; 11/18/20, 10:14 PM
Churchy LaFemme: said...: Van is back on the case: Born To Be Free. Rave on, Van!; 11/18/20, 10:24 PM
J. Farmer said...: @Roughcoat:

Let's not forget that there was a time, long long long ago, when your race, ethnicity, culture, and language were all bound to together.

I agree with this to a point. The concept of an ethnic group is much older than the concept of a racial group, though they clearly have overlapping features. Ethnic and culture groups, however, were often defined in terms of their language and social habits than on differences in physical traits. The modern concept of race really gets going in the Enlightenment period and was wrapped up in the monogenism versus polygenism debate. Early taxonomies divided humans largely into continental groups identified by skin color. Later, skull shape became an important indicator, and this became one of the primary means of denying a single European race; 11/18/20, 10:26 PM
Vikn said...: I am ok with wearing a mask. It might decrease the viral load that you will get from a sick person or release into the world. Lesser load might make it easier for your immune system to fight it off...

What I am interested in is those Pfizer and Moderna vaccines that are promised to be released soon. ( They claim 95 percent effectiveness). Both are mRNA technology and as of November 2020 no mRNA drugs have ever been approved for human use. Super new technology. So how much do they know about long term side effects? Anybody has info on that? I might wait for J&J vaccines.; 11/18/20, 10:27 PM
Guildofcannonballs said...: Iffin' we all want to indulge delusionally-wise then comfort comfort comfort it is.; 11/18/20, 10:28 PM
walter said...: The problem is that we didn't embrace Da Fauch's recs on using goggles.
Goggle up Murrica!; 11/18/20, 10:29 PM
narciso said...: These shake and bake viruses are problematic, what is the standard interval for a safe harbor of testing, ultimately its not about public health its the ulterior motives behind the great reset.; 11/18/20, 10:32 PM
Sally327 said...: I decided to go ahead and buy Kevin Williamson's new book, which is I think is a collection of essays he's already published elsewhere but I don't think I've read them all. It's called --Big White Ghetto: Dead Broke, Stone-Cold Stupid, and High on Rage in the Dank Woolly Wilds of the "Real America"--

He's a diehard Never Trumper, which I already knew, but I think he writes really well and I have a sort of perverse fascination with the Never Trumpers, because I don't really understand exactly what motivates their pathological hatred of Trump and Trumpism. Although I'm not exactly sure what Trumpism is supposed to be, other than I perceive, from the opposition stand point at least, that it's purportedly fueled by racism in its most malignant and irredeemable form.

Donald Trump has been on the national scene for most of my adult life and never would I have thought that he could successfully be branded as a racist. A womanizer, yes, a huckster, yes, an egomaniac, yes. The kind of guy who was born on third base but wants everyone to treat him like he hit a triple. But a racist? No, but I also don't think that's why the Never Trumpers hate him so much. I feel like I must be missing something really obvious about this. And that possibly reading Williamson's book might enlighten me.; 11/18/20, 10:32 PM
Joe Smith said...: "This crap is a painful reminder of how stupid and dishonest some groups of people are."

I know some very smart (grades, etc.) people who are liberals.

But in general, their real-life IQ is pretty low.

Liberals aren't street-smart and wouldn't do well when the shit hits the fan.; 11/18/20, 10:33 PM
Jupiter said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 11/18/20, 10:35 PM
Drago said...: "UW-Madison is moving forward with a plan to remove a boulder from Observatory Hill after calls from students of color who see the rock as a painful reminder of the history of racism on campus."

Tommy Duncan: "It's a fucking rock. It can't move. It can't communicate. It never offended anyone. Leave the damned thing alone and get a life."

We were assured by all the Althouse lefties that only those things associated with the confederacy were being attacked. This was a transparent lie, naturally, as are all things the Althouse lefties share with us.

And the Althouse lefties also assure us that it is the non-Althouse lefties that are delusional.

So, under Althouse lefty "logic" there is no conclusion that can drawn other than this:

That boulder was clearly a member in good standing in the Confederate Army, and quite possibly the very boulder that rolled over Union forces as part of the Army of Northern Virginia.

Thank gaia we have woke lefties with Normandy-invader-like courage to call out this large granite thing for its racist past.; 11/18/20, 10:37 PM
Jupiter said...: Mark said;
"Roughcoat looking to start an US group for those of Aryan descent. Oh wait, let's just slap another term on that instead, for camouflage."

Mark, there are already "US groups" for a wide variety of ethnic origins. Do I understand correctly, you are saying those other groups are fine with you, but that you would object to one for people of Aryan descent? What do you think should be done with people of Aryan descent? Should they be put in camps, to be starved and worked to death? Perhaps just marched to a pit somewhere and shot in the back of the neck? You're a registered Democrat, aren't you, Mark. Perhaps you can arrange to get some Aryan slaves for your factory!; 11/18/20, 10:37 PM
walter said...: The DIY goggles will be epic....; 11/18/20, 10:39 PM
walter said...: Last minute WEC meeting making the rounds nationally.
Posobeic deifying Bob Spindell.
2020; 11/18/20, 10:41 PM
narciso said...: The wayne county commissioner have retracted their certification.; 11/18/20, 10:42 PM
walter said...: Wayne county R's rescinded cert, filed affidavits re threats.; 11/18/20, 10:43 PM
Birkel said...: Sally327
Many of the people who hate Trump think "Muffy, he's not one of us." It's a class based criticism of Trump's supporters and the appeal of Trump to those supporters.

Other folks feel (more than cogitate) that Trumpism is likely to upset the current ordering of the world. They bought into the story they were told about educated (READ: credentialed) professionals running an information economy. They believe therefore that their opinions are better than those blue collar workers who have the numbers to affect political changes in a democratic republic.

It's not a Marx-inspired class based problem. Rather, they can sense a potential reordering of the world and they are not prepared for those potential changes. So they fight with all they are to resist losing their respective special places in what they believe is the proper ordering of the world. And who can blame them, to a point? They have invested in the belief that the current system was the natural order of things. And who wouldn't act to defend their investment in this regard?

****

Oddly, Williamson goes further. He blames the people who live in the towns that were hollowed out by America's policies. He blames them for the hopelessness they are experiencing. All those towns with closed factories somehow prove Williamson's superiority to the people who live there still.

He wants them to learn to code. Meanwhile, Williamson has no discernible skills beyond writing well. He is a mean spirited bigot.; 11/18/20, 10:54 PM
J. Farmer said...: @Birkel:

Your conception of ethnicity as central versus the American melting pot is one of the very many reasons I will never take you seriously.

I think the "melting pot" is largely a myth and is most enthused about in times of expansive immigration. Rather than a melting pot, issues of race, ethnicity, and culture have long been sources of friction and tension in America, from the Constitutional convention to westward expansion to the civil war to Jim Crow to immigration to immigrant political machines of the cities to the civil rights era and right up to today. Nativism has been a reoccurring political issue in the United States since the 1790s.; 11/18/20, 10:55 PM
Sally327 said...: Whenever I start feeling too optimistic about the future of humanity, I go to the UK Daily Mail website. Incredibly depressing stories about human beings doing terrible things to each other and to themselves, that's its specialty. Along with mindless celebrity news and cheap shots at political and other public figures, which those are mostly easy layups of course. The headlines about Donald Trump and Boris Johnson write themselves.

Anyway, I've now learned that a remake of Home Alone is in the works.; 11/18/20, 10:57 PM
Narr said...: "Race" has been used even for animals before the nomenclature stabilized.

As long as we don't take all this stuff too seriously, we'll be fine. Many of our labels are semi-fictional shorthand anyway-- my own DNA tests (and my wife's) showed much of the information in heat maps, for which modern day geographic or ethnic-national labels are poor substitutes.

Since animosity by 'WASP' elites against Irish/Celtic/etc peoples has been aired (and as a connysewer of slur and slander I'm all ears) I'll just mention a cognate sort of suspicion and disdain that looked the other way--towards the damned Dutch and Germans! There are some very interesting roots and shoots there I think, with carryover to this side of the pond.

Having a Kraut name and (small) family in the Southland, even in a big city, is different from having same in the Midwest or Northern Plains; it contrasts more with the dominant Anglo/Scots-Irish/Irish numbers and narratives.

Narr
And that adds a certain piquancy to life; 11/18/20, 10:59 PM
Flat Tire said...: The boulder drama is back. I had a Shoshone boyfriend for years from the Fallon rez. We'd go exploring high desert areas north of Gerlach on his beat up ATV, much of it covered with half buried, basketball sized boulders he referred to as "n****rheads. He knew it was politically incorrect but that was what he grew up calling that terrain. He was darker that many that identify as "Black" and found it all hilarious.; 11/18/20, 11:03 PM
Sally327 said...: My top 5 favorite tv shows of all time:

1. Frasier
2. Foyle's War
3. The Rockford Files
4. St. Elsewhere
5. Downton Abbey

Subject to change I suppose although those are 5 that come to mind. There are a lot of shows I've never watched, though. I've never seen a single episode of Seinfeld or Friends or ER or Mad Men. And many others. These shows that are on now based in Chicago, I've never seen. Chicago Med, Chicago PD, Chicago Fire. I'm not interested in Chicago.; 11/18/20, 11:12 PM
narciso said...: There are language groups and affinities by nationality but are there major genetic differences between northern and southern europeans or is it more the cultural dectarian matrix.; 11/18/20, 11:12 PM
Rt41Rebel said...: Walter, narciso, link or source please?; 11/18/20, 11:13 PM
narciso said...: Check here:

https://mobile.twitter.com/JackPosobiec/status/1329279643006930945; 11/18/20, 11:14 PM
Sally327 said...: Speaking of Starbucks, I had coffee late in the day. That was not wise.; 11/18/20, 11:14 PM
walter said...: https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/elections/wayne-county-election-board-republicans-say-they-were-bullied-rescind; 11/18/20, 11:16 PM
narciso said...: Foyles war was good, not consistently but on balance. He's a small town detective from hastings thrown into high stakes matters in london during and after the second word war. By age and temperament. He might be the analog to bernie gunther by the late phillip kerr.; 11/18/20, 11:17 PM
Rt41Rebel said...: Thanks!; 11/18/20, 11:20 PM
Vonnegan said...: All this ancestry talk is odd when you're adopted - or it used to be, until I found my birth parents. Now I know I'm essentially 1/2 English and 1/2 Irish, give or take. At least I know something - including that my birth father's family came here in the 1600s and fought in the Revolutionary War. Funny after all these years to qualify for the DAR. :-)

My husband's midwest German ancestry is still more interesting, in that he and his brother are the first generation in his family to not marry Germans. People in his hometown - St. Louis - still notice the ancestry of whites, which in Houston is just too weird for words.; 11/18/20, 11:20 PM
Rt41Rebel said...: The usual peanut gallery of gloating liberals is conspicuously absent on cafe tonight. Hmmm.; 11/18/20, 11:25 PM
Sally327 said...: Foyles war was good, not consistently but on balance. He's a small town detective from hastings thrown into high stakes matters in london during and after the second word war. By age and temperament. He might be the analog to bernie gunther by the late phillip kerr.

I really enjoy Foyle's War. I think Anthony Horowitz, the creator/show runner, is really talented and the show is, as you say, mostly well done. It's really down to Michael Kitchen, he plays that role so perfectly. I wish they could have continued on, I really liked the later seasons, after the war when Foyle goes to work for the security services.; 11/18/20, 11:27 PM
Rt41Rebel said...: You forgot Chicago Hope, Sally.; 11/18/20, 11:32 PM
Sally327 said...: What was the last really good war movie? I tried watching "Midway" the other day. I couldn't get into it. Maybe I need to try again. Actually the last good war movie I saw was "Whiskey Tango Foxtrot" with Tina Fey, which I thought was really entertaining, although probably some would say it doesn't really qualify as a war movie.

Oh I guess American Sniper, that's probably the last truly good war movie. I found "Dunkirk" too artsy.

My favorite war movie of all time, probably Patton. It depends I guess. I'm partial to Where Eagles Dare, as ridiculous as it is. And I used to really like The Longest Day, mostly for certain scenes, such as when the German soldier is in the bunker looking through the binoculars out to see and spots the approaching armada cresting the horizon. That actually must have been an incredible sight.; 11/18/20, 11:39 PM
J. Farmer said...: There are language groups and affinities by nationality but are there major genetic differences between northern and southern europeans or is it more the cultural dectarian matrix.

That's still a big question. There is undoubtedly north-south genetic clustering in Europe. How "major" or significant these differences are is not known. Probably the most genetically distinct subgroup in Europe is the Ashkenazi Jewish population.

Ethnicity and race are distinguished primarily by biology. While ethnicity has some tenuous relationship to ancestry, it is mostly about cultural habits and customs and thus can be learned and adopted. Race, on the other hand, is defined by geographic ancestry and is expressed broadly in physical traits (e.g. skin pigmentation, hair texture, facial structure). Certainly there are many dimensions of sectarianism, but race is one of the most potent, because it is based in biological difference, it is much more difficult to create a culturally-defined group based in myths of common descent.; 11/18/20, 11:39 PM
Sally327 said...: You forgot Chicago Hope, Sally.

I actually did watch that show back when. It was pretty good, Mark Harmon, some others. But it was up against ER I think, that's why it didn't last too long.; 11/18/20, 11:42 PM
Rt41Rebel said...: I'm not keen on war movies either Sally. I find them watchable, because there's usually plenty of action, but mostly unremarkable other than from a historical perspective.; 11/18/20, 11:43 PM
Churchy LaFemme: said...: What was the last really good war movie?

Rogue One; 11/18/20, 11:55 PM
narciso said...: Its interesting because foyles creator snthony horowitz is behind the decidedly less nuanced alex rider series (now adapyed for amazon) and two bond novels. The last a prequel to casino royale; 11/18/20, 11:55 PM
narciso said...: Anthony adapted,his father was a fixer for harold wilson, the pm who was not regarded well by the uk security establishment; 11/18/20, 11:58 PM
narciso said...: Never got into st elsewhere or hill street blues for that matter.; 11/19/20, 12:00 AM
Achilles said...: Would you look at that. Now that the two Wayne County Board of Elections commissioners got out of the room with the leftist thugs and got their kids to a safe place they have rescinded their certification that was clearly under duress.

And lawyered up.

Abraham Aiyash better retain counsel.; 11/19/20, 12:02 AM
Achilles said...: Nine of the affiants swore to have seen suspiciously pristine, uncreased mail ballots, uniformly and perfectly filled out, almost always for Biden. In one case, a batch of such ballots included 500 ballots in a row all cast for Biden, the Democratic presidential nominee.; 11/19/20, 12:04 AM
Sally327 said...: Rogue One. I haven't heard of that, will have to check it out.

Oh I just looked it up. It is part of the Star Wars franchise? I haven't seen any of the SW movies. Why? Just haven't. Maybe I should put that on my bucket list.; 11/19/20, 12:04 AM
narciso said...: Theres a series that was rotated for a while on pbs for a while closer to the enemy, its set in post war england in a hotel that serves as a sanctuary for t force a special unit that developed technical intelligence (including from the occasional nazi war criminal) the protagonist callum has to juggle all sorts of characters from rival agencies family members and those touchy germans.; 11/19/20, 12:06 AM
narciso said...: Rogue one is a prequel, about how the death star plans ended up with princess leia and the dirty dozen type unit that took the risk of penetrating the imperial base. Its much more gritty than most of the series; 11/19/20, 12:08 AM