Do we accept that the rules of life in American society today include video recording private behavior and selecting the most revealing moment to put on the internet for everyone to see? If what Sacha Baron Cohen did is accepted, then why can't everyone set up a little camera in their hotel/bedroom and lure someone into that space and see if they get something that they're interested in putting on the internet? This could be used to hurt any person.
Quite aside from the ethics of treating other people this way, the trick — which the clever man Sacha Baron Cohen did not invent — has been enough of a problem over the years that laws — criminal laws — have been passed. Googling "giuliani" and "revenge porn," I found these tweets:
Congrats to everyone posting those Giuliani pictures, you just broke the New York State revenge porn lawhttps://t.co/L28VsRKCkt
— Jack Posobiec πΊπΈ (@JackPosobiec) October 21, 2020
I contemplated whether Maria de la Torre might be a pseudonymous comedian (like Titania McGrath), but no, I think she's this college professor. A professor can still use humor, but I think she's at least partly serious. The idea that criminal law protects only the victims you view as good people is legally wrong and blatantly unethical. And by the way, it's an idea that was used to allow rapists to escape conviction!Revenge porn is an ex boyfriend releasing intimate pictures of his ex girlfriend, not a comedian filming a creepy old man that represents a major oppressor and enemy of US democracy, willingly masturbating to a woman who was interviewing him. Stop twisting laws to save a monster
— ππΆππΎπΆ πΉπ ππΆ π―ππππ, π«π½.π. π· (@Caidadelatorre) October 21, 2020
Giuliani might not want to argue that what was done to him was revenge porn. It's inconsistent with his assertion that nothing happened — he was just tucking in his shirt.
I have not research the revenge-porn issue in any depth, and I assume Sacha Baron Cohen has his legal advisers and the scene was planned with an interruption that occurred exactly where it needed to end to preserve the argument that it was not a violation of criminal statutes. But I do think it is a violation of social norms to lure a person into an intimate encounter for the purpose of recording compromising video. And yet, it's a practice as old as photography, and there's a long list of political figures who've been tricked and disempowered this way.
Oh! That reminds me! Today's the day the Ghislaine Maxwell deposition is coming out. So much sexual exposure this week.
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Ben Dreyfuss saw the movie, and said Giuliani sits on the bed, she takes his microphone off and untucks his shirt, she moves away, he lays back for a second to tuck in his shirt, and that's it. Then Borat bursts in the room, pretending the actress is 15.
So it isn't even revenge porn. It's a still shot that looks like something it isn't. It's also something Twitter left up as a "moment" all day yesterday, while the NY Post is still locked out of its account for posting "misleading" information about Hunter Biden.
Going by The Guardian description, Giuliani was interviewed by a young woman posing as a journalist. They flirted. At some point, Giuliani put a hand in his pants (we’re supposed to think one thing, he has another explanation), and then Borat runs into the room shouting that the girl is under age (she isn't—it’s a lie).
So what's the story? What’s the scandal? There’s nothing there.
Cohen’s entire career has been built around lying to and manipulating people; to use their basic decency against them to subject them to public shame and ridicule.
Giuliani should tweet that Borat like picture of Joe and Hunter Biden meeting with those corrupt men from Kazakhstan, with Borat photoshopped in, or a caption, “This is the real life Borat.” Cohen’s whole shtick with Borat is that he is someone who is coming to the west with all the money he stole from Kazakhstan and bribing American politicians. This is remarkably like those Kazakhstan kleptocrats who looked to the Bidens for ways to invest their ill gotten wealth in the west.
The picture came from an an anti corruptions organization whose name sounds like it came right out of Borat: Kazakhstani Initiative for Asset Recovery. The people of Kazakhstan want their stolen money back Joe!
Played properly this will backfire too. “Why are they mocking Giuliani again? Hmmm.” Not everybody is a partisan who is totally OK with electing a kleptocrat like Biden just to get rid of Trump. Plus it motivates R turnout when they do stuff like this.
Sorry, here is that Picture of Joe and Hunter Biden with those corrupt real life Borats from Kazakhstan.
https://nypost.com/2020/10/20/photo-biden-meets-hunters-alleged-partner-from-kazakhstan/
Giuliani got played as a fool.
Yet he is some sort of super sleuth to those on the right, whose allegations are infallible.
And people wonder why most of the media disregarded the story. Rudy wouldn't know when he is getting played unless someone as obvious as Borat walked in.
Here is a link to Ben Dreyfuss--- not a republican!- 's series of tweets about the misleading stills from the Rudy scene.
https://mobile.twitter.com/bendreyfuss/status/1319001450597396480
Not interested in Giuliani enough even to go look at whatever this is. The Cohen character has been a bore for a long time. Is it just me, or has the news been remarkably stale lately?
I'm not qualified to judge whether this is a criminal violation of the law. I am qualified to say that this action by Borat toward Giuliani is vile, unseemly, and anti-social. And it's not funny, in a genuine rather than "that's not funny" sort of way.
Twitter has given away the game they are playing by banning the NY Post and letting any and all attacks, misleading and otherwise, against Trump go through. Pathetic.
Social norms! Ha! They don’t exist anymore.
Sacha the schmatta. Now if you can't trust a fix, what can you trust?
I thought this "set up" sounded familiar.
Maybe I read about it in July?
Rudy Giuliani called the NYPD on Sacha Baron Cohen over prank interview 7/8/20
Ethically, he's kinda shaky, that Sacha the schmatta kid.
The left has NOTHING else. Biden and his son are as guilty as hell, and they will take down anybody who says anything else. The Left Mafia in action.
We need Jeffrey Toobin to lay bare all the ins and outs of this. Could he qualify as an expert?
Remember how people thought that Pence was so stupid for not meeting with women alone?
it could be an interruptus of some sort by someone as Ilhan Omar would say.
on the other hand ??? is official curated narrative =
MSM and USA Social Media seem to be building a new paradigm for narrative "veracitousness" : sort of exclusionary rule structured in parallel with the judicial one : evidence must be disallowed if obtained in violation of official curated narrative by any step'n'don't'fetchit journalists i.e. who show independence
The first Borat movie was sheer unadulterated comedy genius. Point a camera at people and watch them be themselves. This new sequence is not funny because it loses that focus. Secretly taping someone is not the same kind of comedy.
I haven't heard anything of this scandal. Apparently an exception to the right hearing both sides, the left only hearing the left.
SBC is a guy who I wish would go away, but obviously there's a market for him and his act.
The act, as I understand it, is he pretends he's some Eastern European guy with bad English. He then dupes and tricks people (usually conservatives) into embarrassing situations and admissions against interest. He secretlsy films it. The idea is to make people look bad.
What's funny about that?
Does he ever pull his stunts on the likes of the Cuomos, Bidens and Toobins of the world. I think not.
Addendum to previous comment. I wish we had some social norms today. Like being honest. My dad's nickname for my mom was "Honest Ro."
The idea that criminal law protects only the victims you view as good people is legally wrong and blatantly unethical.
And the foundation of Progressive politics.
This isn't a prank. This is very sinister. Who pranks someone by falsely accusing them of being with a minor in such a situation? Teenage girls are trafficking heavily in our country, and it's something one would never joke about or make a prank about unless one was acomplete depraved sicko. It's sole purpose of claiming at the moment that she was 15 was for no other purpose than to destroy that purpose.
I, for one, will trade one Rudy for the destruction of a Joe and a Hunter and a Kamala, in this game of 3 dimensional chess. Or is it tic-tac-toe drawn with crayons?
Wisconsinites might be interested to know that what was done to Giuliani constitutes a form of what has long been known as "the badger game."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Badger_game
Not pron. He was just tucking in his shirt after taking the mic off.
Maybe he was confused by Trump's advise to a young Bush.
And when you're a star, they let you do it. You can do anything. Grab 'em by the pussy. You can do anything.
"This could be used to hurt any person."
It could. It could also be used by progs as a weapon against the right. You don't think progs are into that do unto others stuff, do you?
Are women completely unserious? Admittedly, watching a law professor focus on a scumbag comedian of unimpeachable Christian ethics instead of the following does make the idea of a female law professor entirely laughable:
1) Ex-partner Tony Bobulinski's confirmation of Joe Biden as the "big guy."
2) Former partner Bevan Cooney is co-operating with the government against Hunter and has been moved out of prison for his own safety.
3) Burisma adviser Vadim Pozharsky explicitly details stopping investigations into the company founder as a "deliverable" that the Americans (the Bidens) were to focus on.
Smoking guns everywhere. Whereas we could have told the Giuliani story was a fake once we got to "Sacha Baron Cohen said."
What’s the scandal?
The scandal is that all yesterday, news articles and social media promoted the idea that Giuliani was in a hotel room with a minor in order to have sex. The headlines plus the photo created a false impression. Twitter had it under "what's happening" all day.
Beware the tentacles of the swamp seeking revenge!
A real artist would have gone after Pence.
SBC in England had a character named Ali G who showed up in all sorts of places and embarrassed celebrities. That was amusing because, well, CELEBRITIES? Giuliani is almost a celebrity, but I don't think manipulating the tape is a good look. That is Michael Moore land.
That tape of Trump taking down SBC over a stupid business proposal is a classic. Never try to BS and BSer.
I'd love to see SBC and Hunter Biden. Hunter would trying to angle some dough for himself and for "Pop".
Man, I'm old enough to remember when they did this to Frank Gifford...for some reason.
Can't remember the reason but it certainly wasn't as noble as making a 'comedy' ridiculing a certain political side and releasing it just ahead of a national election.
Fuckin' Jew.
"SBC in England had a character named Ali G”
That show was hysterical. I thought it was the same guy. He did this bit about Asians buying British food that had me rolling. “And make it bland! Make it so bland I can’t stand it!” was one line. I can’t remember the whole bit.
Revenge porn and elder abuse?
Toobin 3, Giuilani 1.
Now had Rudy and Borat been on Zoom, I woulda upped his score.
The first Borat was funny, but since......?
My first Starbucks Frappuccino. Same thing
"Matt said...
"Fuckin' Jew."
We found the anti-Semite. Thanks for outing yourself.
I thought Hitler made this kind of stuff unfashionable, but I see it's making a comeback.
He's pulled some great pranks. He appeared at the Academy Awards as an east European film director. I think Roman Polanski was the persona he used. Anyway, he got all the assembled guests at the Academy ceremony to give a convicted child rapist a standing ovation. Comedy gold. I don't think he'll ever top that prank
I also watched the actual clip- Giuliani was retucking the shirt she untucked. This is something any man will understand- you can't retuck a shirt in front very easily or even well when seated- you either have to stand or lay back just a bit. I seriously doubt Giuliani really believed he was going to get lucky with the young woman, but a man is allowed to hope.
My turn to fixate on a trivial bit of usage flashing past amid the matters of moment;
"willingly masturbating to a woman who was interviewing him".
I noticed this in the Toobin (remember him?) disaster as well. The idea that one masturbates "to" some person, as one dances to music. While it is certainly the case that there exist visual aids to masturbation, they are typically inanimate. I don't think Louis C K was accused of masturbating "to" the women. Wasn't he masturbating "at" them? Or, "in front" of them?
Guiliani likes to fight.
Picking a fight with him is stupid.
I'd love to spend time commenting on this, but I have a 12 noon zoom conference call, and I just realized I'm still wearing pants.
Nothing sexual.
This is how public manipulation works: get your lie out first. Saying she is 15 gets spread everywhere before anyone checks.
Borat is a pimple on the body politic.
Revenge porn is the stupidest take ever: There’s nothing remotely sexual in the images.
The idea that criminal law protects only the victims you view as good people is legally wrong and blatantly unethical. And by the way, it's an idea that was used to allow rapists to escape conviction!
These are the kind of comments that keep me reading you.
I'm willing to read someone who disagrees with me, so long as they're a decent human being. Too many people on the Left have (at best) allowed TDS to turn them into non-decent human beings
Cernovich and Posibiec as your 2 sources? Now that's good parody.
ai Akker said...
Not interested in Giuliani enough even to go look at whatever this is. The Cohen character has been a bore for a long time. Is it just me, or has the news been remarkably stale lately?
Well, other than learning that former Vice President Joe Biden used his office in a criminal manner in order to enrich himself.
but the press doesn't want to cover that, so they have to go with the stale and boring
Howard said...
Not pron. He was just tucking in his shirt after taking the mic off.
So, we have two possibilities:
1: Rudy was doing what they say he was doing, and they are criminals
2: Rudy wasn't doing what they say he was doing, and they're all a bunch of lying scum
Anyone see a 3rd option here?
Third option: Watch the movie before opining.
One of these days, Cohen is going to pull this shit on the wrong person.
And that will be the end of that.
Well, Readering, you could just go and see the video yourself, right?
Earnest Prole:
Did you read the statute in question for New York State?
I ask because the actions at issue here cal four-square into the statute.
And that means you are wrong.
Talk to the NYS legislature if you want the law rewritten.
But for right now you are wrong.
Earnest Prole:
At least you were wrong.
Readering couldn't even be bothered to be wrong.
So you're better than Readering.
Which is nice.
Read the statute.
I wonder if Giuliani has a cause of action for false light defamation. It would be difficult because he's a public figure, but who knows.... There's been some indication that some on the Supreme Court think that it's time for a change. Disclaimer: I took mass media law in the late 80s and haven't really revisited the subject in depth since then. However, I did win the the hornbook of my choice for getting the highest grade in the class. I remember the Gifford episode too, I thought the person who set it up was despicable.
Readering said...
Third option: Watch the movie before opining.
No, I do not give my money or my time to left wing hacks, which is what SBC is.
This could be worth a 15 or 30 second clip, nothing more.
But, if you want to slime yourself, and watch the "movie", be my guest. However, that still doesn't answer my question:
So, we have two possibilities:
1: Rudy was doing what they say he was doing, and they are criminals
2: Rudy wasn't doing what they say he was doing, and they're all a bunch of lying scum
Anyone see a 3rd option here?
What is it that Rudy could be actually doing in the video such that he's not doing anything sexual, but the people lying that he was doing something sexual aren't scum?
Looks like no sexual exposure from Maxwell.
Me, I didn't watch the first Borat (I gather I missed some great wrestling), and don't plan to watch this one, but the Kyle Smith review in NR is a beaut on its own terms.
Readering represents NRO’s new target demographic, oh and LLRs like Chuck.
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