October 17, 2020

"[I]n an attempt to defend [Billie] Eilish — a sincere attempt, often from other young women — a new narrative is being formed around her body."

"Now, it’s about Eilish’s 'bravery' in having a body atypical for celebrities because she’s seemingly not a size 0. It’s a common refrain anytime a woman in the public eye is seen eating in public, having hips in public, or having rolls in public.... The goal of this kind of noxious positivity is to make clear that not being thin — either intentionally or not — is just as worthy of celebration as thinness has been since basically forever. But this is a false equivalence; we praise thinness because we think it tells us something about someone’s worth, their inherent beauty, their value as a person. The issue isn’t so much celebrating one type of body over another, but rather celebrating a body for its bravery, as if there’s something impressive about existing in the world even though your body doesn’t conform to narrow standards of beauty. Refusing beauty norms, or merely falling outside of them, isn’t that brave; it’s just an inevitability since those standards are increasingly harder to attain. Arguably, every woman in the world is brave in that regard because none of us are meeting every characteristic of perfection, whether we want to or not. Eilish has been vocal in the past about why she wears clothes '800 sizes bigger' than she actually is. 'It kind of gives nobody the opportunity to judge what your body looks like. I don’t want to give anyone the excuse of judging,' she told Vogue Australia in 2019. 'Anything you look at, you judge.'... Calling someone brave for merely existing in the body they have doesn’t take power away from thinness, and it doesn’t create any kind of equilibrium in culture.... The truth about Eilish’s body in those paparazzi photos — the truth about most women and their bodies — is really boring: It’s just a body, and you get the one you get."


First, I'd just like to say, the idea that there are beautiful celebrities who wear size zero is absurd. The chest measurement for size zero is 30 inches! Please point me to any adult with a 30 inch chest. This is not any sort of beauty ideal. But people say "size 0" the way people used to say "thin as a reed." Nobody is thin as a reed, and if they were, it would freak you out. 

Second, I'll say that women's bodies are not boring. They might be the most interesting thing in the world. Stop trying to tell people to be bored and dulled by the sight of human bodies. The message should be about etiquette — how to act around women's bodies, how to speak in a way that brings credit to you and gets you more of what you'd love in this world. Etiquette... and love! Isn't that what you want more of?

Third, we can bemoan the paparazzi, but we're hypocrites if we click through to the pictures — did you click through? — or if you write a column at Buzzfeed and include the pictures. 

Fourth, Billie Eilish is great and we should enjoy her performances, which include the costumes she chooses — big, baggy, body-hiding clothes. Maybe part of the performance is the mystery of what she's got under those clothes that she's hiding so well. She must know that creates a market for paparazzi pictures that catch her off guard.

Fifth: Or maybe she envisioned the whole performance — the hiding, the heightened interest, the catching off guard, the talk about her finally revealed body. 

Six, she looks just fine — very close to the ideal that I had for a life-drawing model, and I've drawn hundreds of models in many art classes over the years. A fashion-model body is actually the most boring artist's model, in my view, and I have a very experienced view.

Seventh, the clothes she's got on in the paparazzi picture are pretty ugly — in-your-face ugly — especially the woolly socks with those shoes they call "slides" — especially with shorts — horrible shorts. I'm going to assume she did all that on purpose. Screw you for looking!

117 comments:

Laslo Spatula said...

I miss the days of Fiona Apple demonstrating her commitment to her art by doing music videos in her underwear.

I am Laslo.

wendybar said...

I don't pay attention to dumb celebrities. Get a life. Do what you want...nobody really gives a damn.

rehajm said...

Etiquette... and love! Isn't that what you want more of?

Yes, please...

A fashion-model body is actual the most boring artist's model...

It has been repeated by designers that runway models are hangers, a neutral canvas to display their wares. I'd have to agree as those woke runway shows end up being more about the models than the clothes...

...and any discussion like this tends to end up in some kind of woman rant about beauty inequality. Sorry but there's beautiful women out there. If you bitch about that you're making yourself ugly on the inside, too, ladies...

Mark said...

Anyone who knows who Billie Eilish is has too much time on her hands.

Mr Wibble said...

I think a large part of the problem with body positivity and all that crap today is that fashions are so horrible and look like crap on everyone. One of my weirder interests is the historical costuming culture on YouTube, and it's interesting how much fashions in previous eras were designed around hiding imperfections or emphasizing certain parts. Compare the corset and bustle pad of Victorian eras with the ill-fitting tank top and skinny jeans of today. We've abandoned the idea that you should dress well, and in the process have taken away a means for people to have some control over their appearance.

I Have Misplaced My Pants said...

Though it’s unclear whether the consensus initially was that Eilish is some hideous monster, or if that was just the ramblings of a few distempered men on the internet.

Yeah, it's men who waste time on social media picking apart womens' bodies in minute detail. Sure.


Chest Rockwell said...

“ I've drawn hundreds of models in many art classes over the years”

What? Let’s see some, please!

Ken B said...

“ A fashion-model body is actual the most boring artist's model, I my view, and I have a very experienced view.”

Want to come up to my apartment and be in my etchings?

Dave Begley said...

Agree 100% with Althouse. Women’s bodies ARE the most interesting thing in the Universe.

As someone here previously wrote: That pussy is a powerful thing.

tim in vermont said...

I looked at her picture, if she were to wear a dress, she could look pretty hot. But a lot of people have done quite well making art about their personal issues and insecurities. She is quite happy to make a display of her pretty face, however. Sia was just the opposite, she covered her face because she didn’t want people talking about how she looked, even though she is kinda cute

https://www.businessinsider.com/why-sia-wears-a-wig-2016-9

Ryan said...

Althouse nails it again, down to the spot-on observation that those shorts are pretty horrendous. Although I do own a pair like that.

Jupiter said...

Some solid points here;

1 - "In the pursuit of body positivity, we've tipped over into an absurd place ..."

2 - "... women's bodies are not/ boring."

You could have put an exclamation mark on that second one. Their minds, on the other hand ...

MayBee said...

The chest measurement for size zero is 30 inches! Please point me to any adult with a 30 inch chest. "

Tbf, the measurement depends on the brand. It can be 30, 31,32...

Owen said...

There must be something wrong with me, because I find this subject —the self-absorbed fretful “exploration” of “brave bodies”— to be incredibly boring. The whole fashion/beauty/celebrity/lifestyle industry seems utterly pointless, oscillating endlessly among the next “must have” look and the next miracle diet and the power of yoga and darling new shoes. Yes, it keeps a lot of people busy and, I guess, distracted from otherwise-empty lives; but come on, people. Take a break.

Leland said...

Ellish looks fine. However, her singing voice is weak and unappealing.

hombre said...

“Mansplaining,” “body shaming,” our media women are deep, deep.

We need more of this, Professor, to confirm our suspicions.

reader said...

Where did the 30” chest measurement for a size 0 come from?

Lucid-Ideas said...

American women are fat. Lots of them. Excessively. Full stop.

I've travelled a bunch and been with and seen a lot of women the world over, and it is night and day. It is unhealthy and the psychological hamster spinning to rationalize it by huge numbers of women is psychologically unhealthy. Anyone that says I cant have an opinion because I'm a man can stuff it. It's the truth.

That said I have no solution for a generation of women that are finding comfort at the bottom of Ben & Jerry's carton or a bottle of Beam. My solution has been to look further afield and make the world my oyster. It's a good things dogs don't care if your'e fat, cause they'll be a lot of them in their future.

Hammond X. Gritzkofe said...

"There’s no good way to talk about an 18-year-old woman’s body." Thus begins an 1,100 word article - exclusive of titles and photo caption - on the subject.

Bill, Republic of Texas said...

So the Afghanis were right about the burka. How very progressive.

Rob said...

Lizzo could not be reached for comment.

Openidname said...

When I got to the word "narrative," I stopped reading.

Ralph L said...

Duchess Kate doesn't have a adult female body under her dress. She had a 12 y.o. boy transplant before the wedding.

Guildofcannonballs said...

Althouse is ignorant of Catholics, those whom now will soon rule over her as Joe, Nancy, SCOTUS, and Cuomo as AG.

Catholics know about "the body of Christ" and other things. Elaborate dodging attempts might get blog clicks, but forfeiting the chance to cheerlead the winners has duplicitous self-defeating aims its own.

Choose one view or another: Of course there is no other way here at the Althouse blog.

JZ said...

Is she a singer? I haven’t heard her music. If it’s good, I will give her credit for that. She gets no credit from me on her appearance except that I don’t see any tattoos.

Hammond X. Gritzkofe said...

"in an attempt to defend Eilish...a new narrative is being formed around her body."

Better a shield around the iridescent green hair.

Lurker21 said...


Second, I'll say that women's bodies are not boring.

Meh. Read enough women's magazines and chick blogs and it's all boring.

Gracelea said...

I doubt this would be news if Billie didn't have enormous boobs. I suspect she might not have been so committed to 'hiding' her shape if she didn't HAVE one. Now, I could see her boobs even under the tent-like clothing she affected, so her actual shape didn't come as a suprise. It is strangely discordant with her pretty, child-like face and whispery singing, though.

Her brother is the actual genius in her career, and he's tall and skinny.

Tom T. said...

Some people really contort themselves into finding a way to feel bad about the simplest things.

Rory said...

"Nobody is thin as a reed, and if they were, it would freak you out."

Donna Reed being the exception.

Ann Althouse said...

"Anyone who knows who Billie Eilish is has too much time on her hands."

So you've been too busy to have any idea whether this is an excellent musician or not. Your opinion is on-its-face invalid. Everyone's supposed to work and not listen to music? Sorry, your world sucks.

Bob Smith said...

What this is mostly about is making excuses for self indulgent people who weigh 300 lbs. it’s a subset of making excuses for people like Bill Clinton who treat women like Kleenex. Or the kids whose parents were dropouts and let their kids drop out. Or any other behavior that we all know is wrong but we’re to lazy to do anything about.

Ann Althouse said...

"Tbf, the measurement depends on the brand. It can be 30, 31,32..."

You're right that some manufacturers slip into what is called vanity sizing and what is called zero can be as large as an 8.

But you went all the way up to a 32" chest and what woman has a 32" chest?! Is there any famously beautiful woman you could name that you think has a chest that measures 32" or less. I'll bet there are a lot of famously beautiful women with a WAIST that measures 32!

Ann Althouse said...

"Lizzo could not be reached for comment."

Lizzo is discussed in detail in the linked article.

Ann Althouse said...

"Where did the 30” chest measurement for a size 0 come from?"

Look it up. Try Google. I did.

Many of the available charts just stop at size 2 because smaller sizes don't make sense as women's sizes. If you really are that small you might need to shop in the children's department.

I assure you I looked it up. I didn't just make it up!

I mean if you have a 36 or 37 inch chest — a normal size for an adult woman who isn't fat or thin but right in the middle with, say, a 22 BMI — what size dress do you think she needs? The answer is size 10!

Ann Althouse said...

Now, lots of clothes these days are made of stretchy material, so presumably a lot of women pick the size they like the idea of and just depend on the stretch. They don't really know what size they'd be in traditional woven cloth that is cut and tailored in a structured style.

The Cracker Emcee Refulgent said...

“Some people really contort themselves into finding a way to feel bad about the simplest things.”

Or to label the simplest things “courageous”, “bold”, “transgressive”, “an affront to the patriarchy”, “a new paradigm”, blabbity-blabbity-blah-blah.

I guess I’ve spent my entire life in the company of all sorts of lion-hearted rebels and never realized it. That the douchegeoisie is fascinated with itself is neither a revelation nor of particular interest.

Original Mike said...

"But you went all the way up to a 32" chest and what woman has a 32" chest?! Is there any famously beautiful woman you could name that you think has a chest that measures 32" or less. I'll bet there are a lot of famously beautiful women with a WAIST that measures 32!"

Keira Knightley

32"
23"
33"

Yancey Ward said...

For Laslo (and for me).

Iman said...

As someone here previously wrote: That pussy is a powerful thing.

“Power springs from teh lips of teh pussy!”

—- Chairman Meow

Yancey Ward said...

"When I got to the word "narrative," I stopped reading."

LOL! Me too! I only read that far because, at first, I thought the article was about Eilish's death, which was a shock to me.

Original Mike said...

"So you've been too busy to have any idea whether this is an excellent musician or not. Your opinion is on-its-face invalid. Everyone's supposed to work and not listen to music? Sorry, your world sucks."

For the record, I've never heard of Billie Eilish and my live doesn't suck. The world is full of many things. Work and music are just two of them.

Bob Boyd said...

She looks like a fun gal.

Kate said...

I know of Billie and her music because my adult daughter plays it for me. We like it. You really don't want to plant your flag on "waste of time", whoever said that.

Billie's mystique is her schtick. Of course a picture of her sans baggy is interesting. I don't need to shame or defend how she looks. When I saw it go by on twitter, though, I looked closer. It's a mystery solved.

madAsHell said...

"Your hair is green?"

"No, it'snot."

What a pig!

tim maguire said...

I clicked through. Because the essay is all about what she looks like and I had no idea what she looks like—it does matter to the question of whether she’s brave for getting up on stage looking the way she does.

I saw a picture of a very slovenly dressed woman who is not swimsuit model beautiful, but is real person beautiful. Which is better if I'm dating her, which I’m not (obviously).Whatever she says about the theory behind her baggy clothes, if she’s wearing them because she’s insecure about her looks, that would be a shame. Real bravery would be dressing up nice and going out looking like she does and not care a fig for the people for whom that’s not good enough.

MayBee said...

But you went all the way up to a 32" chest and what woman has a 32" chest?! Is there any famously beautiful woman you could name that you think has a chest that measures 32" or less. I'll bet there are a lot of famously beautiful women with a WAIST that measures 32!

First, I agree with you that "Size 0" is just shorthand (bad shorthand!) for thin, standard of beauty body.
But....
I also feel like you are veering into the opposite category by asking if there are famously beautiful women with a size 32" chest. Yes! I'm sure there are! Some famously beautiful women are both very tiny and flat chested. They make designer clothing in size 0, and I'm certain some of the women who wear those close are beautiful. Just like bigger sized women might be.

Here's a weird thing, though. I am trying to Google this (in the Sex and the City days, Sarah Jessica Parker was always reported to be size 0) BUT if I google
"Which celebrities are size 0" I only get returned results on how many celebrities are bigger than you think, and then search tags like "body positive", and "Plus size models".
Almost like Google is afraid to show me what I've asked for in case I have an eating disorder.

Roughcoat said...

Elish's "bravery"? Give me a break.

Here's bravery: The aircrew of Torpedo 8, 4 June 1942. New York City firemen, 9/11 2001. The 300. My dad, facing down a race riot, autumn 1965.

Women can be so full of shit.

Roughcoat said...

Also, many women's bodies are ugly. As in, morbidly obese. Here in Indiana it seems that most women are fat. Not just overweight. Fat fat repulsively fat. Nothing brave in that.

loudogblog said...

I really like Billie Eilish. The music that she and her brother Finneas create is really good and I can see how, as an artist, she wants people to focus on her music and not her body. She actually grew up in the same neighborhoods of Los Angeles that I grew up in and they are majority Latino. Also, most Latinos do not not like being too skinny. (Unlike many areas of Los Angeles) We definitely love our curves.

MayBee said...

I do really like the idea that those photos aren't "Brave".

MayBee said...

Too Fab https://toofab.com/2012/11/07/victoria-secret-angel-bust-size-measurements/

Tells me Adrianna Lima, Karly Kloss, and Miranda Kerr have 32" busts.

J Lee said...

Does this tie in with the stories about Rebel Wilson facing criticism for losing weight? It seems like for a lot of people, how they look when they enter the public spotlight is how they must look forever, and if they opt to make any adjustments, it now becomes grist for social media shaming.

Zach said...

She looks fine. There are lots of average people in the world.

But could we please not have another round of Lena Dunham-ing? Where somebody a little bit below average gets constantly promoted as some kind of alternative ideal until their complete nervous breakdown makes the question moot.

Turning a 6 into a 7 with some hard work and discipline is an achievable goal, and laudable to the extent that it promotes accurately assessing and taking some responsibility for yourself. Turning a 6 into a 10 by daring anyone to notice they aren't is unhealthy and narcissistic.

Bill said...

It's just an unflattering photograph. She's a pretty girl.

reader said...

I apologize. It seems that you are working on straight sizes off a chart. I don’t know anyone that doesn’t mix and match their sizes. I’m a pant size 00 (which means I can shop in the junior’s department or the women’s). I wear a size 8 or 10 top. It is what it is. There have been times I have worn loose clothes because I didn’t want to feel (what we called) cha cha (from the dance - 1, 2, cha cha cha). The fact I felt that way was no ones responsibility but mine.

All that being said, my father-in-law likes to tell the story of the time his son did dishes with his mother (son’s mother) and told her about a girl he saw in a purple dress. Over twenty years in and I’ve kept that dress. So clothes can have an impact.

I remember back in the day when girls would switch the sizes of the bikini tops and bottoms and try to sneak them past the clerk as they paid. Happily, the majority of bikini tops and bottoms are sold separately now. You end up paying more but at least your bikini fits.

traditionalguy said...

She looks great to me.

daskol said...

Zaftig

boatbuilder said...

No mask!!! Eek!

If she didn’t want to have her photo taken she should perhaps have worn a hat.

walter said...

"Stop trying to tell people to be bored and dulled by the sight of human bodies. The message should be about etiquette — how to act around women's bodies, how to speak in a way that brings credit to you and gets you more of what you'd love in this world. Etiquette... and love! Isn't that what you want more of?"
Uh..yeahhhh

tim in vermont said...

Kate Hudson, maybe? She’s famously beautiful... gooogles..... Yep, 32A. At least according to bodymeasurements.org

She might be the exception that proves the rule though.

Lyssa said...

“Please point me to any adult with a 30 inch chest.”

You peaked my curiosity. With my clothes (2 shirts, it’s cold today), I’m 32 inches at the widest, 27 below the bust. I’m hardly famously beautiful, though I am most certainly an adult.

Anthony said...

To paraphrase Orwell, some women's bodies are more interesting than others. .. . .

Big Mike said...

Is there any famously beautiful woman you could name that you think has a chest that measures 32" or less.

Calista Flockhart in her prime. But your point is taken.

Joe Smith said...

With all due respect, she did get pretty fat. Blame it on the Vids...

Singers used to get a pass because they were singers. Not anymore.

They've been commoditized over the last decade or so...find a super hot woman, get her in the studio, auto-tune the hell out of her, and make hit records.

I am very critical of actors and actresses under 50 who aren't spectacular looking (unless you are the character actor type).

Their entire fucking job is to be beautiful. They get paid millions of dollars...so hire a chef, trainer, nutritionist...whatever it takes. It's literally your job.

Speaking someone else's dialog is secondary.

Imagine 'Bay Watch' with the first 6 women who walk into Safeway on a Sunday morning.

Me? My preference is real people who look like real people who can actually act.

That's why I watch almost zero American network TV. Here, the plucky rookie cop always looks like she could be moonlighting for Victoria's Secret.

The British go for actors first, although lately they have been sliding toward hot chicks in lead roles.

Call a spade a spade. She's fat.

Hollywood's a tough town. Shape up or ship out.

William said...

The best female singer of the 20th century was Ella Fitzgerald. She would have sold more records if she looked like Lena Horne....Ellish looks muscular more than overweight-- more like a Wagner heroine than a wistful teen age pop star. It's a discordant image. Doris Day looked just the way she sung. So did Amy Winehouse although not when she had vomit in her hair.

Big Mike said...

@Lyssa, you’re a redhead. The word “beautiful“ automatically follows.

Joe Smith said...

@AA

"Is there any famously beautiful woman you could name that you think has a chest that measures 32" or less."

Twiggy...she was quite beautiful...

Joe Smith said...

"Here in Indiana it seems that most women are fat."

I stayed a couple of days in Goshen once many years ago.

Everybody (except the Amish) was enormous. There were fast-food restaurants on every corner.

To this day it's our go-to when describing fat people.

I had the back of my leg run over once at Disneyland by a person in an electric scooter.

She must have weighed 400 pounds.

In her little basket was a large coke and a large fries...

cacimbo said...

Crazy.The real issue and the reason Eilish has previously implied she wears baggy clothes is how uncomfortable she was with people's reaction to her large chest - not because she felt she was fat.

Bushman of the Kohlrabi said...

Not all bodies are interesting to everyone. This applies to both male and female bodies. We all have our own personal tastes and desires. However, I firmly believe there are fans out there for every variation under the sun.

Ken B said...

Althouse:” So you've been too busy to have any idea whether this is an excellent musician or not.”

What is your opinion of Douwe Eisenga? Unfamiliar name is my guess. So you've been too busy to have any idea whether this is an excellent musician or not?

You can appreciate music whilst being ignorant of particular musicians.

Ann Althouse said...

"EOnline, "For the record, Flockhart says she is 5-foot-5 and weighs 102 pounds. She eats what she wants, when she wants. Her dress size is 2."

She weighs 102 and yet she's not size 0! That proves my point. Nobody you're impressed by is size 0.

Joe Smith said...

"@Lyssa, you’re a redhead. The word “beautiful“ automatically follows."

Redheads always get extra points : )

Joe Smith said...

@AA

"Nobody you're impressed by is size 0."

I had dinner once with a couple...the wife was Japanese and 40-ish.

She was decidedly a size 0 and one of the most beautiful women I've ever seen.

I almost felt like I had to apologize for staring...

MayBee said...

Lyssa and reader- I am certain you are both beautiful, and this is what I was warning Althouse off from. Sure larger sizes can be beautiful. So can size 0 women. Why do we have to put them in competition?

The Vault Dweller said...

From the article, Refusing beauty norms, or merely falling outside of them, isn’t that brave; it’s just an inevitability since those standards are increasingly harder to attain.

This seems false. If anything over time it has gotten easier to meet or reach physical beauty standards, at least in regards to fitness and physique. Never before have so many people had so much access to different types of food, income to purchase that food, access to fitness equipment or places, and information regarding nutrition, diet, and exercise. What has changed is that the costs for not having certain physical fitness standards have decreased. It is increasingly unnecessary for people's jobs or daily routines to require higher levels of fitness, romance has increasingly shifted to more sexually open, less long-term committed to one partner dynamincs, so people aren't forced to keep a certain level of fitness, and there is a never ending onslaught of body-positivity nonsense to assuage people's anxieties about being fat. Society hasn't made it harder to maintain physical fitness it has made it easier to be fat.

Also that outfit she is wearing is ugly. And I'm glad to see Althouse has broadened her dislike of shorts to include this pair worn by a woman. I was beginning to worry it was unfair sexual discrimination against men.

walter said...

Blogger Big Mike said...@Lyssa, you’re a redhead. The word “beautiful“ automatically follows.
--
Kathy Griffin

Earnest Prole said...

I'm sorry but "in 10 months Billie Eilish has developed a mid-30’s wine mom body" is really funny.

Night Owl said...

"But you went all the way up to a 32" chest and what woman has a 32" chest?"

Where is that coming from? I'm 5'2" and weighed around 105 most of my adult life. I was a 30-32 in chest until I hit my mid 50s*.

There are indeed petite women. There's a whole industry that caters to us. And thank goodness for that because I did occasionally shop in the children's section back in the days before departments stores had petite sections.

And there was no shortage of attention from men. Too much attention for me, actually.

I didn't diet or starve myself. Some women are just naturally thin framed. What point is there to deny we exist?

(*At 58 I'm now a zaftig 34" chest. Woo hoo!)

Earnest Prole said...

That proves my point. Nobody you're impressed by is size 0.

We've had what, five years of Trump using exaggeration and hyperbole as a nonstop rhetorical device, yet you still insist on taking the "size 0" bit literally?

Night Owl said...

Nobody you're impressed by is size 0.

I wonder what size RBG was?

What a sizist you are!

Ralph L said...

Imagine 'Bay Watch' with the first 6 women who walk into Safeway on a Sunday morning.

The one time I went to our city pool 20 years ago, the dozen lifeguards were late-teens. All the boys were fit for TV from head to toe, the girls...chunky. Guessing the manager was female or gay. But then, how many waifs can pass the lifesaving test?

Chennaul said...

Please point me to any adult with a 30 inch chest.

...........

Blackpink South Korean girl band catching up with the worldwide popularity as BTS.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackpink#/media/File:180125_서울가요대상_-_블랙핑크.png

Big Mike said...

@Althouse, at the risk of getting too lawyerly, your statement to which I was responding was whether I could identify any "famously beautiful woman" with "a chest that measures 32" or less." According to a website called celebsfacts.com her chest is 31" and her bra size is 30A. Whether she is "famously beautiful" is a matter of taste, but Harrison Ford seems to find that she meets or exceeds minimal acceptable standards of feminine pulchritude.

Original Mike said...

"@Lyssa, you’re a redhead. The word “beautiful“ automatically follows."

Ahh, I'm a redhead.

Earnest Prole said...

First, I'd just like to say, the idea that there are beautiful celebrities who wear size zero is absurd.

Audrey Hepburn begs to differ.

Readering said...

I learn a new acronym every day. Today FUPA.

Readering said...

Isn't tiktok centered around women (girl)'s bodies? And animals.

Big Mike said...

@Original, and I'm sure there's someone who finds you to be beautiful.

Not necessarily me.

Big Mike said...

@walter, there are always exceptions.

Joe Smith said...

@Original Mike



Sorry, bud...guys don't get the same consideration : )

Bob said...

I finally clicked through to the picture.

At this rate, by the time she's 25, she will look like Whoopi Goldberg without the tan.

And speaking of tans, Billie could use a little sun.

stevew said...

The outfit is unflattering but Eilish appears to have a womanly shaped body. This is the kind of female form I like, womanly with curves and bumps in all the right places. I am not interested in skinny chicks who look a lot like gay teenage boys. And the really large women who can simply be described as round or fat, they have lost any womanly shape.

Unknown said...

Runway models are mostly chosen by gay men and are not the physical ideal for most men. Good looking women almost always show signs of good health and good genes as well as fertility (hips, boobs)--that is what men are attracted to. Being hugely overweight and sloppy turns men off, tells them you have no self-control around food and that you don't care about your appearance. Lobbying for this to be "attractive" is not going to influence men in the least.

Sonny said...

"I've travelled a bunch and been with and seen a lot of women the world over, and it is night and day. It is unhealthy and the psychological hamster spinning to rationalize it by huge numbers of women is psychologically unhealthy. Anyone that says I cant have an opinion because I'm a man can stuff it. It's the truth."

American men are fat too. It's the truth.

DavidUW said...

Plenty of non-American women are size zero or close to it.

I don't even like Asian women, and I know this.

My current friend is around 5'1" and definitely under 100 lbs.

Just not Midwestern sized of corn fed stock.

Roy Lofquist said...

Here's a girl in an outfit she designed herself from her grandmother's paintings. Oh, and she can sing pretty good.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OU_R7jcL69E&list=PL2v8kgVeo4EbQD6l_WAVjOfItquzW7oEc&index=6

Narr said...

Bodacious ta-tas, we call those around here.

Going by that unflattering photo, bodacious ta-tas are her best feature/s.

Narr
The camera giveth and the camera taketh away

h said...

I've been overweight for 40 years. Yet (to my credit) I have courageously refused to lose enough weight to get back to the "normal" range. This is probably not "Nobel prize worthy". But I think I deserve some kind of Presidential Medal of Freedom.

BUMBLE BEE said...

As Huey sez. It's the power of love - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCkgYhtz64U

BUMBLE BEE said...

Roy Lofquist... thanks Love to hear TALENT.

DavidUW said...

American men are fat too, indeed. But a lot of us played real sports (not soccer) and have some muscle underneath.
Younger American men before they've gotten marbled, going to Europe or elsewhere for the first time are like a college football player compared to a high school cross country runner. Been there, gotten my share of European women.

American women are just fat. Period. It used to be they got fat after the kids or in middle age. Now like Billie, they're fat as teens and college age, when your metabolism and athletic activity are at their peak and there's no excuse not to get outside and play at whatever.



reader said...

Thank you, MayBee. That’s sweet.

Bob Smith said...

Here’s the man. https://youtu.be/C-dt1YB-5Go

Kyzer SoSay said...

I know she's a singer with a quasi-cult following (in a good way), and that's the extent of my knowledge of this girl. But, if she's the same girl pictured at the link, 18-24 year old me would have been ALL over her. Great pout, good-sized chest, she's NOT thin as a reed, and what seems to be a nicely rounded behind. Oh yeah, I'd feed her steak and ribs and then rock her whole entire world. And I'd answer her calls the next day, and the day after too. Hell, if my wife ever left me, the first thing I'd be looking for looks a lot like her.

Kyzer SoSay said...

"The outfit is unflattering . . ."

Only to Hollywood sensibilities. My wife walked into the office Wednesday night wearing about the same thing, minus the bra. I didn't even pause the YouTube video I was watching, and she never did get around to telling me what she had come in for.

Although, come to think of it, maybe she got it anyway . . .

Kyzer SoSay said...

"I miss the days of Fiona Apple demonstrating her commitment to her art by doing music videos in her underwear."

TBH, I'd be all over her too, but probably wouldn't answer the phone the next day.

walter said...

Yes, she has a very average (WI) body. Not exciting.
But green hair? Smokin'

walter said...

But she's not out there assembling a troop of plus size gals to rock the SNL floor like hippo...I mean, Lizzo.

Tinderbox said...

If it's courageous to look like a slob in your private life these days, then we're all heroes.

Unknown said...

Men of mating age with heterosexual wiring are NEVER given a choice about whether not to viscerally respond to a woman's desirability. They have the choice to develop elaborate mechanisms that disguise the mutually discomfiting truths of their inner reactions. So much of feminism is based upon the notion that it's not enough that we disguise our impulses. We're not supposed to have the impulses in the first place. This is insanity on stilts. Each of us is who we are. Let's try harder to be nice to each other.

Skyler said...

"Six, she looks just fine"

Good god, no she doesn't. She's only 18 and she looks disgusting, intentionally. It's her schtick to look terrible and she succeeds at it.

stlcdr said...

Seems like this is a deliberate “Streisand effect”.

Unknown said...

Used to screw hot Aztec gal

She was all muscle

4 feet 8

Size zero

Short helps

Skippy Tisdale said...

American women are fat. Lots of them. Excessively. Full stop.My former boss was a rich, successful executive. She had dinner with a delegation from India and ask her first time in America guests, "What do you think of the US?" one of the Indians replied that Americans are so 'bulky'.

Daniel Jackson said...

I dunno, perhaps because I am an old man; but, this child is quite talented, successful, works with her brother, and both live at home.

From what I just read of her by those who have heard her perform, she has a good voice and the material, by her brother, resonates with a particular market (not mine; but she has a significant following).

Actually, I appreciate her dressed down look that promotes what she performs [the pathos of her age cohort] without all the distraction spandex and titillation. She's smart; pay attention to my work and not my body.

To me, it is a far better generation product that say Brittany or Taylor.

I wish her success.