October 1, 2020

"I really enjoyed last night’s debate with Sleepy Joe.... The verdict is in and they say that we, we, all of us, won big last night.... In the history of cable television, it had the highest ratings...."

"Last night, I did want [to do what] the corrupt media has refused to do. I held Joe Biden accountable for his 47 years of lie, 47 years of betrayal, and 47 years of failure. I held Joe accountable for shipping your jobs and dreams abroad, and for bowing to the violent mob at home. Can you imagine these people the way they take over these Democrats cities? I don’t even believe it. The whole nation saw the truth.... Joe Biden is too weak to lead this country. You know Biden lost badly when his supporters are saying he should cancel the rest of the debates. Now, I understand he’s canceling the debates. Let’s see what happens. I think that’s not going to be a good move. I don’t think that’s going to be a good move. Television, with those ratings, they’re never going to let them cancel. You don’t know television like that. What are they going to do? Someday, we’re not going to be doing this anymore. What are they going to do without Trump? What are they going to do?... What are they going to do when in eight, 12, maybe 16 years, I said, 'Let’s hang it up. Let’s hang it up.' 16 more years. But what he’s doing is what you do when you lose. So, let’s see what he does. I don’t think he’s going to get that. I’ve got news for Joe. If you ever became president, you have to deal with some of the toughest people in the world, and Chris Wallace is very, very easy by comparison. I will tell you. I know him. I know him well. Liberal media is upset that I took the fight to Biden and exposed his very dangerous agenda...."

From "Donald Trump Duluth, Minnesota Campaign Rally Transcript September 30: Night After First Debate" (REV).

That's the discussion of the debate. He claims to have won because the ratings were so high. That's his measure of success. But he's wrong about the ratings! According to Nielsen, the NYT reports, there was a 13% decline from the first presidential debate in 2016 — 73 million vs. 84 million.  But 73 million is still a lot, and perhaps the Nielsen numbers came out late and Trump was relying on some earlier estimate. Getting the fact wrong isn't as bad as excessive reliance on ratings. People were watching, but what did we think of the event? What did we think of him? I've seen some very negative reviews. Ah, well, you could say that he's forefronting the ratings because it's his best point. Maybe he knows he screwed up.

And he did screw up, in retrospect. He kept up the pressure on Biden — with constant interruptions and abuse — and Biden held up and stood his ground. The strategy failed, and now he has to worry that Biden can refuse to do the other debates. Biden can say he proved what he needed to prove, and Trump proved that he will be abusive, and it would be wrong to give Trump another chance to behave like that.

Trump used to be able to say Joe is hiding in his basement because his people don't want you to see that he's in a state of sad geriatric decline. Now, he's switched to saying the show must go on because the ratings are high. He's talking showbiz: "Television, with those ratings, they’re never going to let them cancel." He knows television: "You don’t know television like that." You don’t know television like I know television. He's a TV star. They can't cancel his show! It's huuge!

He raves "What are they going to do when in eight, 12, maybe 16 years, I said, 'Let’s hang it up. Let’s hang it up.' 16 more years."  Who's the "they"? The media, I think. What will they do without him and his ratings? TV wants Trump to have a second term because Trump is good TV. Everyone wants to watch the show. The Biden show will be so dull. No one will want to watch. You know, some of us think it would be good for Americans to turn away from the politics on television. It really is quite shallow and soul-deadening. But somehow, with Trump, we can't turn away.

If it's all about the ratings, winning the election is getting the show renewed. He'll win because it's a good show. He'll be renewed not just for 8 years but "12, maybe 16 years." Why'd he say 12 or 16 when he's term-limited at 8? Because it's good TV. It gives the talking heads something to talk about. They can't resist. They've already shown that they love to get melodramatic about the potential for Trump to find a way to refuse to leave office when his term is up. That's the kind of junk news TV we steep our brains in night after night. Trump says we're addicted to it, and the media know. They're our suppliers and that's how they make their money. So that's why he'll win the election. They're going to renew The Trump Show.

What a sick, sad delusion! Or... if you get Trump and you're still with him, you can say something like: Trump is a tireless optimist. He knows it went badly for him last night, but he won't feel sorry for himself and he won't give up. He talks about whatever is best. Here, it's the ratings and the greatness of the TV show he's making spontaneously day to day, for us, the people. Yes, he exaggerates the numbers — the ratings, the potential years he can hold office — but the heart of it is true. It is a great show — a cage match. And there should be no feeling sorry for Joe Biden. He deserved a hard fight, and he'd better come back for 2 more fights, and Trump will trash talk and taunt him until he does.

145 comments:

gspencer said...

47 years on a public payroll, and Joe's wealthy beyond measure?

"Corruption has been berry, berry good to me"

Humperdink said...

"Trump is a tireless optimist." And he is. As opposed to say the doom and gloomers on the left. Ever see smiling liberal? They may be out there, but they are few and far between.

Speaking of few and far between, the biggest tell in the debate was Chris Wallace pressing Trump on the white supremacists, all thirteen of them. The paramilitary wing of the democratic party is burning cities across the US and Wallace brings up white supremacists?

Birkel said...

You're judging the debate from your perspective.
It's what you have.

Telemundo would have lived to agree with you.
Instead they are memory-holing their own poll.

Dave Begley said...

The point of re-electing Trump is to preserve the American way of life. Trump loves America and is a fighter. Yeah, he brags and gets some facts wrong but that’s who he is.

Biden, OTOH, is controlled by his handlers; the BLM Dems. One of them is Symone Sanders from Omaha and, regrettably. Creighton. Their goal is to destroy America and rebuild an identity politics America with racism as the central organizing principle. The 1619 Project is our future.

I got the above from a piece published by The Journal of American Greatness written by a Thomas K; an I banker. Victor Davis Hanson has expressed the same idea.

tim maguire said...

Both sides are acting like they lost. Which, based on what I'm seeing in the media, is accurate.

Mike (MJB Wolf) said...

And he did screw up, in retrospect. He kept up the pressure on Biden — with constant interruptions and abuse — and Biden held up and stood his ground. The strategy failed, and now he has to worry that Biden can refuse to do the other debates.

My take is the strategy was successful because Joe never got on a roll with his long winded insults. Trump disrupted that. If you recall the Biden-Ryan debates the roles were reversed. Biden constantly interrupted Ryan and laughed at him and never let Ryan settle in. They were very similar approaches. Trump could have backed off that tactic and allowed Biden more space to implode, but he didn’t. Also the Commission in debates didn’t threaten rules changes when Biden went clown show on Ryan, or when Candy Crowley falsely fact checked Romney mid-debate. No let’s pretend Trump is uniquely disruptive instead of simply getting a moderator who can guide and host an event without trying to help Joe.

Robert Cook said...

As usual, Donny is telling lies to his base, and, as usual, his base ("al qaeda") eat up his word-turds as if they were ambrosia. I think most Dems who support Biden, if pressed, would admit to embarrassment or misgivings about their candidate...I mean...are there really many (any) Biden supporters who really are enthusiastic about him, who have real belief in him as a good (must less the best) candidate? I'd bet most know they're betting on a nag, but they prefer the nag to the jackass.

Who is worse? The blind and deluded or the knowing enablers of a feeble choice?

Mikey NTH said...

The Democrats and the media are calling for no more debates because Donald Trump is rude and outrageous. That makes me think that Biden did not do well because if Biden did do well, if Trump's performance hurt him, those people would want there to be more debates. Wanting to change the rules is similar evidence.


Donald Trump is the same aggressive, abrasive, alpha asshole he has been for the past forty years he has been in the public eye. This is not a new thing.

Mid-Life Lawyer said...

I was no a Trump fan when he declared his intention to run for president and I thought it was just a publicity stunt to strengthen his brand. I remember thinking he was my fourteenth rated of seventeen primary contenders in 2016. Kasich was seventeen and I don't remember who fifteen and sixteen were. My primary vote went to Ted Cruz. I now live in TX but I was in MS at the time with no idea I would be moving to TX and the Ted Cruz choice had nothing to do with TX. When the Never Trump movement started, I briefly jumped on board, but I backed off that after about a month or so. Having said that, I did not vote for Trump in the general but voted for the libertarian candidate. The reason I did this is that I knew Trump was going to win MS and I wanted to try and give some support for another party. If I thought he was threatened in the MS election, I would have voted for him.

I'm primarily concerned with policy and judicial appointments. In those areas, I have been relatively happy with Trump's actual performance in office. Trump's combativeness with the corrupt media has been a bonus. It's my belief that if the media were to be objective then a clear majority of Americans would share my core beliefs about sensible policy. The media is responsible for 90% of racial and other identity group discord. The choice between the GOP and the Democratic candidates, for national office, is just a no-brainer to me at this time.

Having said all that, I'm disgusted and disheartened by Trump's recent "performances." While I will probably vote for him, I'm no longer convinced that his reelection is what's best for the country. We may have to go backward for a bit before we can go forward again.

tds said...

Trump makes same mistake with talking here about the ratings, as he made when he talked about stock market at the beginning of the Covid. It's not how "the people" view things. It is how financial/business/CEOs people view things. And Trump doesn't get the difference.

Normal folks listen to that and ask themselves "what is going on? what is he blabbing about?". Not good when you have elections coming and need votes.

Tom said...

If Joe Biden backs out of the debate, Trump debates Jo Jorgensen. Jorgensen isn’t really a threat to Trump. Libertarian-ish Republicans have mostly left. But, Jo on a debate stage in Biden’s place destroy’s Biden. Trump can take a completely different tact with Jorgensen. He can have a reasonable debate with her and blame every issue she raises (war, drug war, taxes, debt, racism) on democrats in general and Biden specifically. He can appear to be empathetic, caring, and thoughtful - which we’ve all seen him be from time to time.

Jorgensen and the LP also win in this arrangement. They don’t win the White House but they do win exposure, raising the chances of gaining over 5% in the election. Why is 5% so important? Places the LP on most state ballots automatically for the next four years. The time, energy, and resources the LP devotes to ballot access is massive and takes away from other meaningful activities.

Finally, back to Trump and Biden. If Biden backs out of the next two debates, the media can make it Trump’s fault. They can say there’s no reason to debate a drunk toddler. But, if Trump goes on to debate Jorgensen, Biden looks so weak. It destroys him.

Laslo Spatula said...

I think Trump realizes most people experience the debate not by watching it in total, but in digesting bits in clips and recaps.

As such, he works in moments: after the heat fades the clips encapsulate the moments he pushed for through interruptions -- Biden refusing to answer about packing the Court, for one example.

For better or worse, the debates now are there to provide moments, not an overall experience, much like a sports show recapping a basketball game and inevitably highlighting the dunks.

Trump understands television. And you can't really blame Trump for that -- the viewers have made it that way,

I am Laslo.

wendybar said...

"And he did screw up, in retrospect. He kept up the pressure on Biden — with constant interruptions and abuse — and Biden held up and stood his ground. The strategy failed, and now he has to worry that Biden can refuse to do the other debates. Biden can say he proved what he needed to prove, and Trump proved that he will be abusive, and it would be wrong to give Trump another chance to behave like that."....WRONG!!!!


"I rewatched the start of the debate. The 1st Q went to Trump who gave an uninterrupted 2-min response. Then Biden gave an uninterrupted 2-min response. Then it went back to Trump, whose answer was interrupted 3 times by Biden. If you didn't like it, blame Biden for starting it.

— Ari Fleischer"

Temujin said...

He is a tireless optimist. That is who he is and what he does. He looks right past the things right in front of him and us, even when we are all yammering about the thing right in front of us. He looks past it to focus on something more nebulous that he can present as a positive. Or...he'll look at the same thing the media is worrying about and recast it in his own Trumpish image, positively.

Many (most?) don't get that, but it's something he's always done.

And then he'll turn around and rip your throat out. He's a roller coaster ride. You'll all miss him when we're back to voting for Red Simms or Blue Simms. ("Moon over Parador" reference).

rhhardin said...

The women's vote.

DEEBEE said...

Ann, looks like you are laying a predicate for yourself to overcome your distaste of Biden’s campaign beginning with a lie.
IMO, dyspeptic as the whole debate debacle was, and wanting Trump to just let Biden be Biden, Trump was able to drag Biden into the gutter. No more of the sane alternative to Trump. C’mon man just shut up.
All Biden had to do was act sane. NOT.

mezzrow said...

Krusty abides. Yet I do not fear him as a totalitarian. I can see how dedicated leftists would.

The people with their hands up Joe Biden's behind pulling the levers? The people he will represent until it's time for him to go? President Harris? She could do that totalitarian thing. She seems to have been an effective enough prosecutor. It got her to where she is today, after all.

Of course it will be for our own good, and the good of the planet. You can't have their level of projected equity without totalitarianism. It starts as a nudge and ends with a gulag. It's the only way to make their social justice real. It's too contrary to human nature to be achieved in any other way.

Look what totalitarianism did to the Soviet Union and is doing to China. It does not make humans more compassionate and more altruistic, in fact it does just the opposite. The substitution of identity for class in their current version of philosophical three-card monte is clever, but the game's been played out too recently for us to not see the goal.

That's what I fear. I fear that more than I fear Krusty, and that's why he's getting my vote. He's a flawed vessel, but he's all we have left now. Biden's stark and total refusal to renounce court-packing was the tell. That was Trump's prize of the night.

Patrick Henry was right! said...

Could be humor. He is joking with people who still have a sense of humor. Unfortunately, unlike you. Like all leftists, you have a dry and bitter heart.

Jersey Fled said...

Joe was pretty much the same way with Paul Ryan, so I don't think you can blame it all on Trump.

Kai Akker said...

Thank you, Althouse!! Your post made me go look at the transcript and I read parts of it. So invigorating!!

Thank God, what a change from his bad mood of the debate. I hope to get time to watch a replay of that Duluth rally. That is what people respond to with Trump, he does love this country. Never for the sourpuss haters and perpetual grifters, of whom Biden and Harris are two notorious examples.

AMDG said...

He lost the debate because he could not shut up. Biden was never given an opportunity to show how addled he is.

If the election is about Trump he loses.

rhhardin said...

It might be nice to consider what Trump has done vs what Biden ever did. Then look at the rhetoric, rather than the reverse.

rhhardin said...

Women have to be the worst logicians ever.

David Begley said...

Thomas K is Thomas D. Klingenstein.

Catherine A. McClarey said...

Trump established himself as the dominant figure in the race. Biden came across as a doddering old man who had no business on the stage. Bashing Chris Wallace during the debate helped point out that Trump is running against Biden and the Media. Well played Mr. President, very well played.

Robert Edick said...

The Pence-Harris debate may prove more critical (for undecided voters) given the age of our presidential candidates. The prospect of a Harris presidency is sobering.

rhhardin said...

You know, some of us think it would be good for Americans to turn away from the politics on television. It really is quite shallow and soul-deadening. But somehow, with Trump, we can't turn away.

Women's self-awareness problem. Women produce the show. "Politicians have to play to idiots like us. It's soul-deadening."

Althouse deplores shallowness without irony, is the amazing thing.

Jeff Brokaw said...

The debate was a clusterf*ck from all angles but it’s hard for me to conclude it’s going to sway many people one way or another — nor should it.

Using a TV “debate” to make voting decisions is ridiculous from the start. Anyone who does this today, especially if they ignore politics at all other times, should consider whether their vote is informed or not — almost certainly that answer is “NO”.

The executive role of a president has almost zero correlation with doing well in a debate setting, meant to impress eggheads, journos, and academics. People like Abraham Lincoln and Winston Churchill were both great leaders *and* great in such settings — but that’s really more of an outlier than a trend.

R C Belaire said...

Trump being Trump. What's not to like? With Trump, you get the whole package.

Peter said...

Scott Adams says “Trump lost my vote”. Because failure to condemn white supremacy.
He feels it personally. See his periscope or YouTube

Peter said...

Scott Adams says “Trump lost my vote”. Because failure to condemn white supremacy.
He feels it personally. See his periscope or YouTube

Peter said...

Scott Adams says “Trump lost my vote”. Because failure to condemn white supremacy.
He feels it personally. See his periscope or YouTube

MountainMan said...

I may be wrong but I don't believe Nielsen numbers include streaming. I dropped cable 2 years ago and now stream all my viewing via YouTube TV and other apps. I don't believe Nielsen counts any of this. And I there are millions of people just like me who have been dropping cable in favor of streaming.

Wince said...

He claims to have won because the ratings were so high. That's his measure of success.

Wasn't Trump referring to media insta-polling of viewers as to who won the debate?

AllenS said...

Trump won bigly. By the way, where did Biden hold his rally yesterday, or did he just stay home because of the butt hurt.

Bushman of the Kohlrabi said...

Yeah, Trump made ass of himself as usual, but Joe is so weak and feeble. Xi Jinping must be jumping up and down with glee at the thought of a Biden administration.

rhhardin said...

Scott Adams doesn't know what a white supremacist is but deplores them, probably for the same reason that he doesn't talk about women's reasoning. He does depend on some PC for survival as a public figure.

Birches said...

Am I the only one who thinks that all the pearl clutching about all the interruptions is overwrought? I've watched plenty of debates. They're never civilized affairs. The media just needs to keep pushing that Trump is beyond the pale because they need suburban women to vote for Biden. It's all newspeak.

Mr. Forward said...

You can’t prove a negative but you can improve it.

Jack Klompus said...

"Who is worse? The blind and deluded or the knowing enablers of a feeble choice?"

I think what's worse is the Florida-born pseudo-radical poseur pontificating on his juvenile, one-dimensional worldview while being convinced he's an edgy sophisticate.

Sebastian said...

"he won't give up"

Which is better than nothing.

Still, he should do his homework, and be nice enough to give nice women no stylistic reason not to vote for him.

Chris said...

Blogger Peter said...
"Scott Adams says “Trump lost my vote”. Because failure to condemn white supremacy.
He feels it personally. See his periscope or YouTube"

Scott also points out the dozens of times Trump has condemned white supremacy. How many times does he need to do it? Why isn't Joe required to condemn Antifa and BLM riots?

carrie said...

Trump is an entrepreneur. Entrepreneurs have to be optimistic to survive the booms and the busts. Successful ones don't dwell on past failures but always keep moving forward and selling and selling and selling.

gilbar said...

laslo?
did the girl with a ponytail, on a treadmill watch the debate?

i'd really like her input on this (or EVERY) topic

Mike (MJB Wolf) said...

Americans are so tired of being called racist of having our president slandered as a white supremacist. Wallace repeatedly injected his own biases and the worst of those is his and the entire DNC-Media’s overwhelming obsession with race. Trump denounced David Duke in 2000. He was asked to and denounced racism and the Klan in 2016 when entering the race. As Althouse has written many times the very speech of Trumps that Joe purposely misquotes elides Trumps strong declaration “condemning them totally” but us studiously absent from questions posed to Trump. Joe has never been made to answer for his tacit support of antifa. Never. Wallace allowed him to avoid it this time. America sees this gaslighting and avoidance of mentioning Biden huge volume of racist comments like calling black kids roaches. Saying “you ain’t black.” America sees the odious smear for the cheap political prop it is. Sorry Media your race card is overdrawn.

rehajm said...

Many latinos commented they like passion and they liked the debate, but it's not like they are important voter group or something...

Left Bank of the Charles said...

In 16 years Donald Trump will be 90. Is he claiming he will stay in office that long? It sounds that way. Or does he think he’s going to lose, and that’s how long he plans to seek a return to office?

Browndog said...

That debate doesn't mean anything unless it's the last debate. All anyone remembers is the last debate.

Trump knows this. Could be Trump left a lot of things unsaid to give Biden a sense he can go toe-to-toe with Trump to entice him back to the debate stage.

Ray - SoCal said...

Thanks Wendybar - interesting that Biden started the interruptions.

And Trump, being Trump, then started doing so.

And the Press blamed Trump for interruptions.

Where the actual record was Trump was interrupted more.

rehajm said...

Raise your hand if you think Joe Biden won the debate

Equipment Maintenance said...

Mid-Life Lawyer said: "We may have to go backward for a bit before we can go forward again."

When we go backward for a bit, and it's your city burning, can we then go forward ?

Kai Akker said...

---Who is worse? The blind and deluded or the knowing enablers of a feeble choice? [Robert Cook]

Thank you, you're onto something -- except that those categories are one and the same. That is why it is so important that Trump voters turn out and reelect him. Can't have the dim bulbs like Biden or the deluded, like Harris, getting any more power than they already abuse.

Ray - SoCal said...

I wonder why Trump is playing with the press on their attempts to get him to denounce white supremacy.

The press, the deep state, and the left has made White Supremacist as this huge boogie man.

Even the FBI.

All the while ignoring Antifa.

And lying on Trumps words in Charlottesville.

Gut Feeling - Trumps rope a doping them to show what a bunch of biased lists they are.

Wince said...

The strategy failed, and now he has to worry that Biden can refuse to do the other debates. Biden can say he proved what he needed to prove, and Trump proved that he will be abusive, and it would be wrong to give Trump another chance to behave like that.

It's against all logic that Biden would quit what reputedly worked so well for him in the first debate.

And if Biden doesn't have the fortitude to prove that point on behalf of his voters two more times, what is he capable of doing once in office 24/7?

A president is required to confront a lot of difficult people.

Trump will surely point that out in Biden's absence.

Marcus said...

FWIW, I watched it livestreaming. The screwup with the audio in the beginning made me LMAO

Mikey NTH said...

This is the same Donald Trump that we had in 2016. He is not going to change his personality and style. If the results of his actions as president weigh less to you* than his style, that says a lot about what you think is truly important.

*generic you, no specific person

Curious George said...

"I'm for Boring"

See all those businesses boarded up, burned down, looted, bankrupt? See all those people shot? Dead?

That's what boring get's you.

tim maguire said...

Robert Cook said...are there really many (any) Biden supporters who really are enthusiastic about him, who have real belief in him as a good (must less the best) candidate? I'd bet most know they're betting on a nag, but they prefer the nag to the jackass.

Who is worse? The blind and deluded or the knowing enablers of a feeble choice?


Say what?! Biden supporters are better because they support someone who sucks? Biden supporters are milquetoast about Biden because they know who and what he is. If you're paying attention, you know that Trump supporters are well aware of his shortcomings and aren't thrilled with his personal conduct. But he also operates with common sense and achieves things no Washington insider could because they are too compromised by the system. Trump supporters are excited about Trump because they know who and what he is.

Who is worse--the person who supports a bad candidate who can't be trusted to look out for America's interests, or the person who supports a flawed candidate who will be a tireless fighter for America's interests?

cacimbo said...

Trump is and always has been doing Muhammad Ali.I am the greatest... It is to push the idea out to the public while psyching himself up.

I thought the debate was a nightmare and that Biden won just by not drooling.Seeing Democrats want to cancel future debates makes me think I am wrong.If they believed this hurt Trump - they would want more debates.


mockturtle said...

You either get Trump or you don't. He knows very well the debate was a train wreck [a disaster, in Trumpspeak] and is using sarcasm to laugh it off.

rhhardin said...

The news goes for ratings, not news. Trump gives them ratings, with one bombshell scandal after another. So they want Trump, but in the meantime it's more bombshells.

Bob Boyd said...

What has changed?
Trump is still Trump and the alternative is still the alternative.
The alternative is the people who tried a coup. People who don't believe in many of the founding principles. People who, if they get power, will make sure they can never lose it again.

Steve said...

And once again, Ann, you get it wrong. You get it wrong because you think that humans are just integers in an equation. Cogs in a wheel. Or even your fake "love for humanity".
You are no different then the dems for wanting to make life easier for the great unwashed. You want to have government provide for the masses. That may be a noble thought when you sip your fair trade coffee, groovin' to Dylan.
But you and your ilk always forget; this country wasn't started to perpetuate the European model of familial ruling elite. It was begun to allow INDIVIDUALS to use their own talents to get ahead. To reach for that brass bell and ring it for all it's worth. That is why you don't like Trump; you are jealous and envious of his innate understanding of this country.
And that's why you will always be disappointed in your politicians.

Kai Akker said...

Tom at 6:55 a.m., great ideas! Love that prospect.

rhhardin at 7:10 a.m., first post: absolutely. Second post: probably true.

Mid-Life Lawyer at 6:53, why the plural on performance? What others have dismayed you? Look at the accomplishments and the decisive approach when Covid first came knocking, unlike the reactions of Democrats all over -- the alternative is awful, and you know it. I hope you will take heart.

Greg The Class Traitor said...

Trump is a tireless optimist. He knows it went badly for him last night, but he won't feel sorry for himself and he won't give up.

Did he?

2/3 of Telemundo watchers polled said that Trump won the debate.

Probably because they can't telework, and Trump wants to open up and get them their jobs back, and Biden doesn't

roesch/voltaire said...

I am sure Biden will continue to debate and expose the stream of lies for example Trump claimed the Seattle sheriff supports him was disputed in a tweet from the sheriff within hours. And the laughable claim that he paid millions in taxes, but offering no proof like showing us his taxes which he will never reveal any more than a health care plan which he has never produced.

Browndog said...

MountainMan said...

I may be wrong but I don't believe Nielsen numbers include streaming.


Partial list of streaming numbers:

WSJ 2M
Reuter’s 192k
Sky News 333k
Telemundo 530k
CNN 1M
CBS 3.9M
PBS 853k
Telegraph 946k
NBC 2M
Bloomberg 1.7M
Global news 673k
Fox business 1.3M
C-SPAN 8.7M
StevenCrowder 1.4M

tim maguire said...

Mid-Life Lawyer said... I'm disgusted and disheartened by Trump's recent "performances." While I will probably vote for him, I'm no longer convinced that his reelection is what's best for the country.

The problem is, what's the alternative? Biden? The Democratic Party is a train-wreck of dysfunction, corruption, and decay, so beholden to the street thugs that make up its activist base that they have to be willing to destroy the country if they want to keep hope alive that they will run it. Or, as conservatives are fond of saying, they will burn the country down if they can rule over the ashes.

There is much not to like about Trump, much of what makes him the man of the moment also makes him not the man for the moment. But he has been a responsible steward of American interests and we have no other candidate willing to fill that all-important role. So responsible Americans vote for Trump. What else can we do?

iowan2 said...

All the actions taken by everyone after the debate, are data points proving President Trump won big.
The lefts first take was, Biden did not drool, so Biden won. Two more debates would raise Biden to super hero status, by just not drooling, so why would they even consider not debating more?
Going to change the rules. Leftists only change the rules when they cannot win.

President Trump is a racists. Only problem the left has, they are forced to lie about events to make the case. Telling the truth should be easy enough. Why cant they.

Biden is a racist. Kamala Harris has laid out the case. I think she's a Senator, so the proper hierarchy, to project the necessary gravitas, making the case for Bidens racist sins. Also Biden himself says he is a racist.

Why do third parties make the rules and why don't the candidates get to debate what they want to debate? Why is the moderator so focused on moving on to the next question they have spent months crafting, instead of the two important people in the room, hammering out the different policy positions?

Leland said...

I wrote it yesterday, the debate was only ad revenue for the national news outlets. That's why it is a win. For people that care about national policy for the next 4 years, it was a complete waste of time.

holdfast said...

Although it was a messy performance, Trump did what he had to do.

1) He kept Biden on the back foot most of the debate - and made sure Biden couldn’t be the Biden of the Ryan-Biden debate.

2) He made Biden face at least SOME hard questions, after months and months of Biden taking NO questions at all

3) He pinned Biden on the Green Nude Eel

4) He got Biden to admit that there are NO law enforcement associations supporting him (probably not true, but since Biden couldn’t think of one, it’s true enough)

5) He pushed Dem plans for court-packing into the mainstream and he can now use it again and again. Moderates DON’T like this idea - but now Dems have to embrace it or reject it, and both have consequences.

6) He pushed Biden away from Camel-A and Bernie on healthcare

Mary Beth said...

He knows it went badly for him last night, but he won't feel sorry for himself and he won't give up

I don't think he did as well on some points as I liked but I don't think it went that badly. I know the media reports it that way but they would regardless.

Biden certainly didn't say anything impressive. He just repeated the "fine people" lie and some others. He stooped to personal insults and refused to answer questions. Are the news stories that are moaning about how badly Trump did even mentioning that Biden would answer the question about court packing or said antifa was just "an idea"?

I wonder if the difference between watching live vs reading the transcript is the same as watching the Kennedy vs Nixon debate compared to listening on the radio was.

rhhardin said...

According to Armstrong and Getty, nobody knows what ratings mean anymore. They can't tell how many people watched the debate.

rehajm said...

The question of the 2020 election is do the media and big tech have the power to decide a presidential election purely through propaganda?

Unknown said...

"The strategy failed, and now he has to worry that Biden can refuse to do the other debates. Biden can say he proved what he needed to prove, and Trump proved that he will be abusive, and it would be wrong to give Trump another chance to behave like that"

He can offer to debate Kamala Harris instead. Good box office - LOL.

mikee said...

I look forward to the analysis of how much time Trump had to debate Wallace before he could debate Biden. Biden had to holler over Wallace debating Trump, just for his insults to be heard.

Yes, it is possible for the news industry to fall lower in public esteem than it has already.

RichAndSceptical said...

Biden was the 1st to interrupt, not Trump.

Unknown said...

So from never voting for Biden because of the “fine people” hoax ( which he obviously used again ) to voting for him because of a single debate. Okay

RichAndSceptical said...

Everyone acts like the candidates were talking to the American people at large. Far from it. Trump was talking to blue collar, black males, and Hispanic males in swing states. Trump won the Telemundo poll. Trump only needs a couple point bump in blacks and Hispanics to win.

stevew said...

Transcript from a brief press exchange prior to heading off to the rally yesterday:

Q Mr. President, can you explain what you meant last night when you said that the Proud Boys should “stand back and stand by”?

THE PRESIDENT: I don’t know who the Proud Boys are. I mean, you’ll have to give me a definition, because I really don’t know who they are. I can only say they have to stand down, let law enforcement do their work. Law enforcement will do the work more and more. As people see how bad this radical, liberal, Democrat movement is and how weak — the law enforcement is going to come back stronger and stronger.

But again, I don’t know who Proud Boys are. But whoever they are, they have to stand down. Let law enforcement do their work.

Q So, Mr. President, did you misspeak when you said “stand by”? That’s my — my first question. When you said —

THE PRESIDENT: Just “stand by.” Look, law enforcement will do their work. They’re going to stand down. They have to stand down. Everybody — they have to stand — whatever group you’re talking about, let law enforcement do the work.

Now, Antifa is a real problem, because the problem is on the left and Biden refuses to talk about it. He refuses to issue the words “law and order.” And you saw that last night when he choked up. He can’t say the words because he’ll lose the rest of the left. So he’s got to condemn Antifa. Antifa is a very bad group.

Q So, Mr. President, let me follow up: White supremacists, they clearly love you and support you. Do you welcome that?

THE PRESIDENT: I want law and order to be a very important part — it’s a very important part of my campaign. And when I say that, what I’m talking about is law enforcement has to — the police have to take care. And they should stop defunding the police like they’ve done in New York —

Q But I’m talking about white supremacists, sir.

THE PRESIDENT: — like they’ve done in New York. I just told you.

Q But do you denounce them? Do you denounce white supr- —

THE PRESIDENT: I’ve always denounced any form —

Q Of white supremacy?

THE PRESIDENT: Any form — any form of any of that, you have to denounce.

But I also — and Joe Biden has to say something about Antifa. It’s not a philosophy. These are people that hit people over the head with baseball bats. He’s got to come out and he’s got to be strong, and he’s got to condemn Antifa. And it’s very important that he does that.

Source: theconservativetreehouse

Enough to win back Scott's vote?

Michael K said...

I was disappointed in Trump's performance. Still, it is hard to believe that people will vote to end civilization. Biden may deny he supports the Green New Deal but his platform does. Do people want to end air travel and oil fired electrical plants? All this is what they will be voting for. Biden can deny it but why is it still on his web site? Biden said in the debate that weather proofing 100 million homes will "pay for itself." This is insane, even if he has never heard of Bastiat. That would cost trillions we don't have. Biden keeps saying that "alternative" energy sources will generate new jobs. What about Solyndra and the other bankrupt entities of the Obama regime?

I doubt there will be another debate. I wish Trump had restrained himself a bit in this one.

Butkus51 said...

No mentions of Trump taxes yesterday. I wonder why that is.

James K said...

While I will probably vote for him, I'm no longer convinced that his reelection is what's best for the country. We may have to go backward for a bit before we can go forward again.

What's the alternative? "Best" is either Trump or Biden. Those are the only alternatives. If you prefer Trump to Biden then he is best for the country. End of discussion. Imagining some other alternative that might be better is pointless.

Butkus51 said...

Robert Cook

"Who is worse? The blind and deluded or the knowing enablers of a feeble choice?"

You suffer from Gell-Mann Amnesia. Funny how taxes are all of a sudden a "nothingburger".

gramps said...

Trump won.
Biden totally went against everything the left cares about. No green new deal. No Medicare for all...but Obamacare crap again. No defunding the police. Obama Biden did nothing good on race relations for 8 years and Biden is a life long racist according to his partner Harris.

None of this would have been forced out of Joe by his partner in tag team Wallace. Trump smelled another hit job coverup and decided to attack to force truth out of the swamp. What you have done in his place? Roll over?

Ken B said...

Or, he's just bullshitting as usual.

It’s like I said the on the the other thread. Althouse said Trump was right on CRT and Biden was wrong but it was STILL the “how Trump lost me” thread.

narciso said...

ccurious that,


https://babalublog.com/2020/09/30/if-only-chris-wallace-questioned-the-president-of-the-u-s-like-his-father-questioned-the-mass-murdering-terror-sponsoring-dictator-whose-lifelong-obsession-was-the-destruction-of-the-u-s/#comment-172665

Gospace said...

I didn't watch the debate. I followed the liveblog by Vodkapundit. If I did that- so did others. Where do we count in the ratings?

Birkel said...

roesch/voltaire

Perhaps you should read the NYT story in which the authors wrote Trump paid about 7 million dollars in the two years they claim he only paid $750.

Could you maybe do that, you ignorant simp?

320Busdriver said...


Blogger rehajm said...
The question of the 2020 election is do the media and big tech have the power to decide a presidential election purely through propaganda?

10/1/20, 8:27 AM

Not yet, first they have to surpass the democrats mad skills at leveraging a pandemic to commit unprecedented voter fraud and leave us all in the dark once Election Day is over. We may never trust the electoral process again with the damage they will inflict.

mccullough said...

Trump will be even more enjoyable when he’s out of office.

His commentaries about the Far Left’s war with the Left will be amusing.

He’s already laid the groundwork for the illegitimacy of the election. Really, the illegitimacy of politics in general.

The next few months will be entertaining.

madAsHell said...

claimed the Seattle sheriff

There is a county sheriff, but there is no Seattle sheriff.

Wince said...

Some are conflating a "loss" with Trump not having delivering a deathblow to Biden in the first debate, when all the Monday morning quarterbacks -- including myself -- are convinced they know a surefire way Trump could have done so.

Not meeting that high expectation among the armchair know-it-alls does not translate into a loss in the eyes of the people just tryin to make a decision over which candidate, despite his flaws, will be the best president.

Aggie said...

Mid-Life Lawyer said: " We may have to go backward for a bit before we can go forward again. " Huh.

I think a lot of people were disappointed with the debate, especially with Trump's performance. But this is typical of Trump - he doesn't mind losing a joust if there's another round coming, because it gives him the opportunity to probe and size up his opponent. He did the same thing in 2016 in both Primary and Presidential debates.

I think for a lot of people the choice is this: Get on a bus with Trump for a 4-year ride down the mountain, with no brakes - or get on the bus with Joe, for a ride over the cliff.

A lot of people made a similar choice with Hillary as a candidate, but this time there are 4 years' worth of accomplishments to refer to - all won in the face of seamless, unprecedented, and hateful opposition across political and social sectors. Trump is going to need a bigger bus.

gramps said...

Moderator Wallace no trump fan. So going in Trump knows he is facing two to one. Knowing Wallace will certainly not push anything harmful to Biden, he decides that he needs to get Biden to take a stand on issues. Biden comes out against green new deal, against Medicare for all, refuses to back police and admits he does not have a single place endorsement with America in flames, that Hunter is a drug addict and cannot explain why he was given millions of dollars from foreign governments while Joe was VP. Others would go to jail for something like this. Anyone care to bet that China and Russia have solid proof That could put his son in jail to drop on Biden if elected? Trump won because he is not like other Republicans like Romney and McCain that were steamrolled by the media. The next debate Moderator actually use to work for Biden and the third debate NBC moderator is in constant shouting matches with Trump in White House. Now they want to turn off his Mike so he cannot defend himself from these tag team attacks. Why not have the two candidates debate without moderator where each can introduce what they want?

exiledonmainstreet, green-eyed devil said...

Mid-Life Lawyer said:

Having said all that, I'm disgusted and disheartened by Trump's recent "performances." While I will probably vote for him, I'm no longer convinced that his reelection is what's best for the country. We may have to go backward for a bit before we can go forward again.

10/1/20, 6:53 AM

The problem with going "backward for a bit" is that it's difficult to shift into forward once you've backed up over a cliff. But, hey, right before you hit the ground you can congratulate yourself for being disgusted by vulgar Orange Man.

I know you are not a Dem, but I'm a bit baffled by the Dems I know who are more disgusted by Trump's manner than they are by cities burning, cops being shot, and plots to delegitimatize a duly elected president.

wsw said...

84 million in 2016 down to 73 million in 2020. Down eleven million...from which side? Which group has zilch enthusiasm for its candidate? I'll hang up and listen. -WSW

jim said...

I don't think Biden will miss the opportunity to let the people watch Trump beat his own brains out.

Static Ping said...

Everyone has different things they want from debates. It is literally impossible to please everyone watching, even if you limit it to people who could actually be persuaded. The only goal is to do more good than not and that is a relative standard compared to your opponent.

If anything I have learned in life, it is that the professional pundits' opinions on who won the debate have minimal to no value. If the opinions had some deep insight into the views of voters in aggregate then it would be useful, but for the most part pundits are just expressing their personal opinions, typically biased with the conclusion preordained, one data point drowned out on a busy scatter chart.

Bob said...

Trump's strategy should have been to lay in wait for Biden -- to wait for the lies, the gaffes, the interruptions, and calmly call him out on them. Biden would have been putty in his hands. Trump would have looked [gasp!] presidential.

Trump does not always act "Trumpy". He certainly can play some things straight rather than bombastic. On substance he clobbered Biden (unlike, say, Reagan or Obama in their first debates as incumbents). But then those guys weren't facing a "Biden".

I hope Trump changes his approach for the next debate. Surprise us, Donald! You know you can!

Larry J said...

Having said all that, I'm disgusted and disheartened by Trump's recent "performances." While I will probably vote for him, I'm no longer convinced that his reelection is what's best for the country. We may have to go backward for a bit before we can go forward again.

At this point, the only choices are to vote for Trump, vote for Biden, or not vote at all. I don't think Trump did himself any favors in the debate. Quite the opposite, actually. That said, I'm definitely going to vote and Biden will be nothing more than a ventriloquist puppet for whomever writes his teleprompter scripts. While there are things about Trump's behavior that I don't like, Joe Biden represents just about everything I despise about politics. The judicial appointments alone are reason to vote for Trump.

I'm Not Sure said...

"I'm a bit baffled by the Dems I know who are more disgusted by Trump's manner than they are by cities burning, cops being shot, and plots to delegitimatize a duly elected president."

Gotta find a way to reconcile their eventual vote for cities burning, cops being shot, and plots to delegitimatize a duly elected president. If Trump's manner is all they can come up with, then that'll have to do.

roesch/voltaire said...

Mr. Trump paid no federal income taxes in 11 of 18 years that The Times examined. In 2017, after he became president, his tax bill was only $750.What are you talking about Birkel?

Nob490 said...

I follow this stuff pretty closely, my wife does not. We watched the debate together, and I thought Trump missed some great opportunities to put Biden on the spot. He lacks the discipline to make his good points during moments when they can get heard, instead choosing to blurt them out as interruptions. He's got a huge ego, blusters and spouts, but I support his policies.

My wife simply thought Trump was a jerk, and while she has no love for Biden, will almost definitely not vote for Trump based on his performance Tuesday, his policies be damned.

So, say what you will about who won in your own mind, some people won't look past the surface.

narciso said...

au contraire,


https://romesentinel.com/stories/thoughts-on-joe-bidens-debate-meltdown,104641

hombre said...

“What a sick, sad delusion.”

Trump has spent three and a half years dealing with the delusional, alternate reality created by the Democrats and their pet mediaswine. A little slack is in order here.

It wasn’t a good night for Trump, but he did score some hits and gathered documentation for Biden lies.

RMc said...

Watching the White House press briefing and it's hilarious: question after question about Trump's supposed inability to "denounce white supremacy" and constantly talking over the press secretary -- so much so that she called them out on their hypocrisy for slamming Trump for talking over Biden!

The media is a perfect example of Einstein's definition of insanity.

Birkel said...

roesch/voltaire

I am talking about the facts the New York Times presented in its article.
Your ignorance amuses me.

As for loss carry forwards, do you think there is a better alternative?
Name it.

Finally, your inability to distinguish business taxation (where the carry forwards happen) and personal taxation (where income tax is paid) is a wonderful insight into your lack of comprehension.

Please do go on.

Gusty Winds said...

If I lived in Madison, WI and was trying to figure out a way to cast my vote for Biden I’d start trying to convince myself early too. You have to absorb and promote voter fraud and ballot harvesting, pretend the Proud Boys destroyed your town, and that someone besides Gov. Evers let Kenosha burn. You have to turn your face toward Jacob Blake’s victim and children, and show disdain for Kyle Rittenhouse. You have to pretend that $4 Trillion in new taxes will actually be spent on Americans. AND most importantly you have to make sure you don’t admit to yourself that the Clintons and Bidens were part of a foreign aid money laundering scheme. None of this matters, as long as you can abort as many fetuses as possible, from conception to birth.

Kai Akker said...

---Biden said in the debate that weather proofing 100 million homes will "pay for itself." This is insane, even if he has never heard of Bastiat. [Michael K]

Bastiat... if only American students were still educated! I would agree with your comment, Doc Mike, except perhaps for the choice of words -- not necessarily "insane" if you are thinking that it will pay for itself through votes for your ticket. That is the objective, the only concern; and because that outcome is the "good," then whatever public spending brings it about is rational, if not downright wonderful. And think what it might do for the Biden and Harris family bank accounts, too, or at least those of the comrades they can steer into the business.

Economically, of course, you are right. The Biden proposal is absurd and idiotic, and we are in bad shape that some significant number of Americans can still buy into someone who thinks as he pretends to. But, hey, it would be another freebie. Bill Gates will be paying for it, won't he?

hombre said...

Cook: “As usual, Donny is telling lies to his base, and, as usual, his base ("al qaeda") eat up his word-turds as if they were ambrosia.“

Speaking of “sick, sad delusions.” After 8 years of hero-worshipping at the altar of the Obamessiah lefties like Cook project that same silliness onto Trump supporters. Yet I have never encountered a “Trumper” who did not readily acknowledge his boorishness or his bullshitting. Mostly we admire Trump’s commitment to purpose in the face of unprecedented attacks and hatefulness from nasty, mindless journalists and other Democrats. Obviously, to anyone who is not mindless, it is his purpose not his demeanor or mere words that engender our support.

OTOH, what kind of person supports a mentally declining old grifter who has accumulated a net worth of $9 million after 47 years at the public trough and who brags on video about extorting the firing of a Ukrainian prosecutor who is investigating a corrupt company that obviously hired the grifter’s son to bring about just that result. “Al qaeda” indeed.

Drago said...

Mid-life Lawyer: "Having said all that, I'm disgusted and disheartened by Trump's recent "performances." While I will probably vote for him, I'm no longer convinced that his reelection is what's best for the country. We may have to go backward for a bit before we can go forward again."

If the democrats retain the House and win the Senate and White House, they will:
1) Absolutely make DC and Puerto Rico states thereby locking in permanent Democrat control in the Senate
2) Remove the filibuster for legislation in the Senate (the Senate will become a Super House)
3) Pack the courts (Supreme Court and Circuit Courts) thereby locking in permanent Democrat control of judiciary by increasing the size of the courts and appointing enough obama judges to ensure victory on every issue that comes before them
4) Give immediate citizenship to the (actual number) 20M+ illegals in the US
5) Open the borders and flood the US with another 10 to 20 million illegals over 4 years and give them citizenship as well, thereby locking in permanent Democrat control of the House, State Governments and the Electoral College
6) Nationwide mail in ballots with no controls

And I haven't even begun to discuss the attacks on our constitutional rights (speech, assembly, gun rights) and the big tech alliance with dems to establish social acceptability scores which will drive your ability to access jobs, benefits etc in society. Precisely as Big Tech has assisted the ChiComs to create in China.

Our republic will become a one-party state....and that will be the end of the republic.

But go ahead, continue to lie to yourself and delude yourself about going backward for a bit before we can go forward again.

We won't ever "go forward again". We will get Kamala as President within a year and likely an AOC-type as the VP.

At that point, the only way you'll ever "go forward again" is by shooting your way out.

bleh said...

I really don't think it went well for Biden. He did okay because the expectations were so low and because Trump and Wallace kept bailing him out. He didn't really land any blows of his own. He was treading water and Trump, stupidly, kept throwing him a raft by engaging with Wallace, giving Biden time to regain his composure.

Biden, at several points, got flustered and lost his ability to speak. Trump filled the silence when he should have stayed quiet. THAT would have kept the pressure on Biden to fill the silence, which I believe he was incapable of doing.

Drago said...

r/v: "Mr. Trump paid no federal income taxes in 11 of 18 years that The Times examined. In 2017, after he became president, his tax bill was only $750.What are you talking about Birkel?"

This has already been explained multiple times to r/v (and readering and gadfly and the rest of the morons) but they are incapable of internalizing the truth.

Trump paid $1M in taxes in 2016 and $4.2M in 2017 and the $750 was an excess amount that was added on another line and that was the number the media picked to fool the idiots like r/v.

Trump literally overpaid income taxes for 2016 and 2017 and opted to roll forward the refunds for those years to offset any future income tax owed.

For the slowest amongst us, like r/v, that would be $5.2M in total paid to the Treasury Dept for years 2016 + 2017 by Trump for personal income taxes and represents a significant overpayment.

Bilwick said...

My favorite part was "There's nothing smart about you, Joe." As the old-time comedian Sam Levinson used to say, "It's funny because it's true!"

But I was disappointed that Sleepy Joe didn't come back with, "I'm smart, Donnie, not dumb like everyone says! I can get things done."

Mark said...

If Trump is a master negotiator who can p I t Xi and China on the ropes, he should have been able to handle Chris Wallace, right?

I am surprised the amount of people who blame the ref. I thought Trump was good at this shit and you tell me that Xi brings a buddy Trump will lose the negotiation?

hombre said...

If Trump insisted that grifting and corrupting federal law enforcement be topics at the next debates, all Democrats would insist that Biden withdraw.

Francisco D said...

Mark said...If Trump is a master negotiator who can p I t Xi and China on the ropes, he should have been able to handle Chris Wallace

It seemed to me that he handled Chris Wallace pretty well. Chris destroyed any credibility he has with centrist viewers and he will never ever moderate a debate again.

After watching the debate in sections, it seems that Trump was overbearing, but Biden was a total cipher. Sane people would not trust him to organize a two-car funeral or to be their HOA President.

hombre said...

@Mark 11:37: So, is it your contention that Trump should have cleared Wallace’s questions in advance or that Wallace wasn’t biased? LOL!

Blame the ref? Is that what Wallace was doing, reffing? I forget. Which sport is it where refs are not required to be impartial - any sport where Democrats field a player or a team?

Since we are using flawed analogies, are biased refs like mail-in ballots? And are the cheated just supposed to shut up?

wholelottasplainin' said...

Mark said...
"If Trump is a master negotiator who can p I t Xi and China on the ropes, he should have been able to handle Chris Wallace, right?"

>>>>What sort of "negotiation" do you think that ambush was? Other than shout Wallace down, what could Trump have offered or taken away from "narrator" Wallace, as he would do during a real negotiation? Would walking Trump's away have pleased you? I'm sure it would.

"I am surprised the amount of people who blame the ref. I thought Trump was good at this shit and you tell me that Xi brings a buddy Trump will lose the negotiation?"

>>>>>Oh, Biden "brought a buddy" to help him during the negotiation, and that "buddy" was the supposed "moderator"?

>>>> You have once again shown us that you have the reasoning capacity of a cherrystone clam.

Birkel said...

Look everybody.
The stupid Leftist Collectivist Mark tried comedy.
I believe Mark is more descriptor than name.

Drago said...

Dumb Lefty Mark: "If Trump is a master negotiator who can p I t Xi and China on the ropes, he should have been able to handle Chris Wallace, right?"

He handled a clearly biased Wallace well enough if....if.....this really does turn out to be a base voter election.

Which is clearly the strategy.

We'll see who is correct.

Of course, the unsolicited vote fraud launched in the 45 states that have done it before (as opposed to the 5 states which have established unsolicited vote by mail and all states absentee voting processes) is going to throw everything into the courts with probable alternate and contested slates of electors pushed by the democraticals in battleground states with state legislatures controlled by republicans fighting back against the lefty lower courts and democratical executives of those states (PA, MI, NC, WI scenarios) with their own slates of electors.

And given the Constitution clearly assigns the responsibility for federal elections to State Legislatures, and with ACB likely on the court for those fights which sidelines the democraticals not so secret weapon (John Roberts), its probable that like Florida 2000 the SC will side with the constitutionally empowered republican legislatures.

YoungHegelian said...

Who won the debate Big Time are the Proud Boys. Here's a group that basically only political junkies have heard of or alt-Righties would join that got a massive dose of free advertising to 73 million people.

There's only a few thousand Proud Boys at most. If even the tiniest fraction of those 73 million people take an interest and join or donate money, that would be huge jump for the PBs.

wholelottasplainin' said...

wsw said...
84 million in 2016 down to 73 million in 2020. Down eleven million...from which side? Which group has zilch enthusiasm for its candidate? I'll hang up and listen. -WSW
***************

what wsw said. Where are the data re the audience composition? If the media doesn't report it, you can BET they favor Trump.

bagoh20 said...

You know what was actually soul deadening? Politics and the media before Trump. We didn't realize how much Soma was in that stuff until Trump slapped us in the face and woke us up. We couldn't really see the lies, the corruption, the bias until we gained consciousness long enough to scare the shit out of the Soma suppliers. Their panic tipped us off to who they were, and how far they had gone while we slept. That's why they really hate Trump. The deporables have snapped out of the coma the country was in.

Iman said...

Gusty Winds @10:48am... way to cut through the bullschiff and rocket straight to the truth.

Michael K said...

Guys, let up on R/V. He is an artist and obviously does not do math.

Jim at said...

What's the over/under on the number of posts - between now and election day - on why our hostess is now voting for Biden?

Martin said...

Or, you can be like me and, I suspect, millions of others--Trump sometimes makes my skin crawl, but he is no threat to my liberty or righst as a free citizen.

The other side is committed to reducing me to a serf with no rights but the little they may deign to let me have from time to time, on their continued sufferance.

Distasteful choice, but not a hard one.

wholelottasplainin' said...

@ mark above:

Would Trump's walking away...

wholelottasplainin' said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
rcocean said...

The most important thing about the debates:

Joe Biden refused to say he would NOT pack the court, or make DC/PR states, or get rid of the filibuster. He's OK with packing the Court. He refuses to provide a list of possible SCOTUS judges because they're so radical. Does anyone care? Guess not.

Joe Biden refused to support law and order. He refused to denounce Antifa or BLM. Or any extreme, violent left-wing groups. Does anyone care? Guess Not.

Joe Biden lied about Trump over and over. He's still repeating the lie about charlottsvile. Does anyone care that he's a liar? Guess not.

Joe Biden, wasn't asked about it, but he supports Amnesty through executive orders, defunding ICE, making illegal entry into the USA a misdemeanor and supports open borders. Does anyone care? Guess not. And Joe Biden, supports the elimination of fracking and spending 1/2 $trillion to fight climate change. Does anyone care? Guess not.

Why doesn't anyone care about Joe Biden and what he's going to do, and whether he's up for the job or whether he'll tell the American public the truth as President? Instead everyone is all worked up about Trump denouncing "white supremacy" for the 100th time, or how much he paid in taxes, legally, 5 years ago. Trivia.

bagoh20 said...

"For the slowest amongst us, like r/v, that would be $5.2M in total paid to the Treasury Dept for years 2016 + 2017"

The Federal income tax haul is about $5,000 per person living in the United States (adults and children). Trump's average tax for those two years was $2.6 million, which means he paid the bill for about 500 Americans by himself. Is that what's called a "fair share"?

Anybody repeating the $750 lie should be ignored on anything Trump related. They have no ability to be truthful on the subject.

Much more significant is the taxes paid by all the people and companies he employs. Unless you make really good money, he's paying your bill for you. A simple "thank you" will do.

Bushman of the Kohlrabi said...

Yeah, I didn’t have any problem with the way Trump handled Wallace either. I guess the better question is why the Dems always feel they need a buddy in these debates. Maybe they just fear competing on a level playing field?

As for dealing with foreign leaders, the only backbone Biden has ever displayed in his near 50 year career is when he threatened a foreign government in order to protect his son from corruption charges. Some heady leadership skills on display there.

mockturtle said...

I just hope we get a real debate about the Green Nude Eel because people need to know more about what it entails than just the cost [which, Biden idiotically claims, will 'pay for itself'].

But I also want to see more emphasis on the other races going on this year. Holding the Senate and winning the House is probably even more important than who is Presidents. And our state and local elections are more important than even IF we want to hang onto our Bill of Rights.

CR said...

The farther I get from Tuesday’s debate, which appalled me then, the differently I look at it. Yes, DT was too aggressive and needs to dial it back. But it takes energy to be aggressive. He showed me that at 74, he has ample energy and passion. Biden showed me that at 78, he has none. He looked tired and lethargic compared to Trump. Biden doesn’t have the energy or vitality to be president. Having a pulse isn’t enough of a qualification.

hstad said...


Blogger Mike (MJB Wolf) said...
"...Biden held up and stood his ground. The strategy failed...)

Whoever said this, what Debate where you watching? Biden looked befuddled, weak, unsure, in poor health, etc. Hispanics watching on Telemundo believed Trump beat Biden by 66% to 34%. 2 polls a day later saw a significant bounce toward President Trump. That includes only 1 day (debate) in a 5 day rolling average.

Maybe your strategy wants Mr. Trump to fail?

Unknown said...

From Scott Adams: "Today I learned that agreeing with Democrats and saying I won’t vote for Trump makes them hate me extra and threaten me. So I’ll be voting for Trump."
4:20 PM · Oct 1, 2020·Twitter for iPhone

Marcus said...

Speaking of Ali:

Debates are like championship prize fights. The challenger has to score a knock out -- you don't beat the champ by decision.

ken in tx said...

Yes, Adams revealed that he was pulling some kind of joke/experiment. I didn't get it.

Richard Dolan said...

The audience for that debate was not you, me or anyone who reads this blog (even if you are still claiming to be undecided). Almost everyone who follows politics decided long ago how they will vote. Trump was the guy we’ve all come to know — aggressive type-A personality, clearly in charge while also being rude, dismissive and superficial, who tells you what he thinks and isn’t worried about what others think of him. Biden is a dim and somewhat senile party hack who wants you to like him, will say or do whatever to achieve that, doesn’t have strong principles about anything, and thinks and talks in platitudes. I think Trump and Biden were both aiming at the few who don’t pay much attention to politics, who tune in to the election late, don’t focus on policy details and make their choice based on more visceral reactions. Biden had his shout-out to Irish Catholics in Scranton, and wanted desperately to be the nicer guy; Trump kept referring to the folks in Michigan, Ohio, Penn who he says he has benefitted, and wanted to be the strong guy. The reaction from the talking heads in the media was predictable and irrelevant. It was also interesting that the instant poll of those who watched on Telemundo thought Trump was the hands-down winner.

The Godfather said...

The secret polls -- you know the Democrats have secret polls, don't you? So they can plan their strategy but not let the "people" know what's going on -- anyway, the secret polls must show that Trump is ahead right now and gaining. If the Democrats really believed that Biden was way ahead and lengthening his lead, they'd just keep on keeping on: Minimal public appearances by Biden, a couple more "debates" to show the voters that Trump is a goof-ball and Biden is a Solon, etc., etc. Instead, they're talking about cancelling the debates, or giving a Democrat-approved moderator the power to shut off the President's mic, and so on. If they really believed that Biden was ahead, would they keep propping up that Weekend-at-Bernie's claim that Trump called the KKK in Charlottesville "fine people"? Would they have suddenly discovered that the great threat to American Democracy is some group called the Poor Boys (that's what ABC News called them anyway, the day after the debate), while antifa is just an "idea"? Personally, I'd like to see Trump discipline himself a little more, so he can put Joe away in the next debate. But if the Democrats' secret polls are right, he doesn't need to bother.

wbfjrr2 said...

Adams has a complex thought process. Often it doesn’t work for him. Or maybe he just enjoys trolling.

For the record, I’ve never thought Dilbert was at all interesting.

Robert Cook said...

"Speaking of 'sick, sad delusions.' After 8 years of hero-worshipping at the altar of the Obamessiah lefties like Cook project that same silliness onto Trump supporters...."

I don't know what "...Obamessiah lefties" do or do not project onto Trump supporters, as, being supporters of Obama, they are nothing like me. You're too unimaginative to consider that I can deplore Trump and that I also deplored Obama, (and Biden). Obama's fans and Trump's fans are remarkably similar in that they each wallow in self-satisfying illusions about the "greatness" of their respective chosen ones.

Robert Cook said...

"Say what?! Biden supporters are better because they support someone who sucks?"

If that's what you inferred from my question, I suggest you take a remedial course in reading for comprehension.

(By the way, both candidates suck.)