"Patriotism is rooted in humility. Nationalism is rooted in arrogance."— Donald R. Koelper (@Donald_from_HI) October 5, 2020
- Dan Rather, "What Unites Us" (2020) https://t.co/tILhFUtYj4
Seen because the name Dan Rather is trending on Twitter this morning. He seems to have a new book.
Do you like that aphorism? "Patriotism is rooted in humility. Nationalism is rooted in arrogance."
Patriotism is rooted in _________________.
ADDED: Let's also use a survey to examine the other half of the aphorism:
AND: As long as we're doing surveys...
Posts
205 comments:
1 – 200 of 205 Newer› Newest»Dan Rather is and always has been a self-important idiot.
But in America, idiots get to be on TV and write books. Is this a great country or what? That's why I'm a patriot.
You forgot "frequency" on your list.
I think the guy that pummeled Rather said "What? Is this freak seeing Kenneth?" With Kenneth being his boyfriend/lover.
Missing option: respect for the Constitution.
gratitude, appreciation, responsibility
"Patriotism is rooted in humility. Nationalism is rooted in arrogance."
It's internationalism that's rooted in arrogance. The notion that the whole world has to follow your lead.
What would be rooted in humility? I think...federalism is the best answer.
The ONLY thing I didn't like about martial arts was the BS "zen koan" stuff you had to listen to.
"Patriotism is rooted in humility. Nationalism is rooted in arrogance."
That is well inside the B/S zone.
-XC
PS - Dan, had you used a sharpie to fake the TANG memo you'd still be broadcasting.
For me my outward actions of patrotism, are demonstrations respect for the people that have contributed to the nation, and the institutions and people they served.
"Patriotism is rooted in ____Respect________________."
Hi Dan, It was a staged PHOTO-OP symbolizing he was working while in the hospital, not the record of some historic signing. Maybe you would have been happier if he was photographed typing on an IBM Selectric.
Will Rather reveal bombshell documents about Trump's TANG service in about two weeks?
Whoa, Dan Rather. That's snark bait for sure, but I am going to avoid that trap.
Patriotism is rooted in roots.
Re recent tweets by Dan Rather and others:
What has happened to the left? Where they always this full of hate and anger? I know bitterness can destroy people - it like poison. But the lefties of today are off the charts bitter and angry. Has recent bitterness turned them into these monsters, or have they always been this way and has their anger just melted off the thin veneer of civility?
"Nationalism doubleplusungood."
The wrong guy to be tossing around accusations of faked documents.
96 votes so far and not a single one for "humility."
The more pressing question is: what is modern "journalism" rooted in?
What is a nation? Historically it is considered a political unit of a race, so you can say it is rooted in racism. Given that we've moved away from a racist understanding of the world, or at least we're trying to, that means the statement does have an argument. What is patriotism? America has been at the forefront of being a country founded in and supported by non racial ideals, and much of our history has been in the working out if those ideals and attempting to live up to them. Being a patriot means putting your country above your nation, or race. America first is a patriotic phrase, black lives matter is a nationalism one.
The name "Dan Rather" is not associated with the word "humility."
It isn't rooted in a fake memo.
Do you like that aphorism?
No, because nationalism and patriotism are basically the same thing.
"Patriotism is" "the quality of being patriotic; devotion to and vigorous support for one's country."
"Nationalism is" "identification with one's own nation and support for its interests, especially to the exclusion or detriment of the interests of other nations."
There's more difference between various dictionary definitions of the same word than there is between the two words.
Deep sense of respect and gratification for noble national principles and the consistent implementation thereof by a dedicated populace.
...but from the list: "Shared interest"/ "history"
I just don't have sufficient sarcasm in me this morning to deal with Dan Rather. I'll just revert to the old standard: "...and the horse you rode in on."
Dan Rather is rooted in ________
Patriotism (one who loves, supports, and defends his own country; etymologically, his fatherland) is rooted in nationalism.
Dan Rather is rooted in a soft, loamy potting mix.
Dan Rather is every inch afoot.
I have a fairly straightforward observation: Dan Rather put forward an anti-Bush story that led to his retirement and ~4 people being fired/being forced to resign. 15 years later he stands by the story...for reasons he himself can't articulate.
When you can't admit you were wrong in journalism, you should be ignored. The trust of entire career is built upon that ability. It's ok to be wrong, to get the story wrong, to have done your work and still not caught the truth in your efforts.
It's just not ok to continue standing by it no matter what.
Patriotism is rooted in gratitude. Nationalism is rooted in competitiveness.
Kind of an ironic name for a book, given the quote.
Can he please just do away? Last i heard he still thinks those memos were real.
Dan Rather, Dan Rather, I have heard that name before...
Isn't he that disgraced former reporter that pushed a false story about a President based on fake documents that took some internet folks about 1 hour to debunk? So much for those layers and layers of fact checkers...
So he has his name on a new book? Is that book "fake but accurate"? Asking for a friend.
Patriotism is rooted in football.
I would say patriotism is rooted in love of a place, its people, and its culture. Nationalism is for the benefit of the ruling class. Dan Rather is a worn-out tool.
Dan, I feel I should say that, while there is a way to come back from completely discrediting yourself and shaming your profession, what you're doing isn't it.
Nothing says "I work hard" to America more than signing blank sheets of paper. But the real question is whether it was the same "magical Sharpie" the president uses for his hurricane forecasting.
Gee, I get the feeling that ol' Dan doesn't like the prez much, eh?
Journalism must be nationalistic.
I've never been able to take anything Dan Rather says after his "fake but accurate" attempt to influence the 2004 election. Credibility is the most important thing any journalist can have, and he flushed his down the toilet. The problem is, so have most of today's journalists.
Rather than pretend to sign a blank sheet of paper, Trump should've written "made you look!" on it.
Patriotism is rooted in nationalism.
Faux humility* is rooted in arrogance.
* = civility b.s. (aka "cbs).
A book from Dan Rather—yay. 2020 obviously isn’t through with us yet.
Dan Rather is rooted way up his own ass.
Words are so important. It's how we communicate. How we write laws. How we resolve conflicts without force.
But you have to be careful with word-worship. Words can't change the innate way things are. Simply renaming something (or someone) does nothing to reality.
I see this all the time in our fight over abortion. The New York Times refuses to use the word "pro-life" or "unborn baby" in any article about abortion. It renames these things "anti-abortion" and "fetus." And the people who write that newspaper think, "we solved that problem."
We can be dishonest with our language. That's how powerful words are. To me "patriotism" and "nationalism" is like the words "baby" and "fetus." Patriotism and nationalism is the same damn thing, just like baby and fetus is the same damn thing.
If liberals like you, they call you "patriot" or "baby." And if liberals hate you, they call you "nationalist" or "fetus." They're not describing reality so much as describing their own feelings.
LOL "Depleted soil."
This is to remind you that shame, such as mask-shaming and racism-shaming belief-shaming is a one-way street for the Media-Industrial complex. Shame is simply a tool to control conservative behavior and not something you should naturally feel when you do something everyone knows is wrong, like invent a #FakeNews story about a president in order to illegally provide assistance to his opponent by disseminating oppo research. They have no shame. They can’t even fake it like a decent sociopath would.
“Courage!”
Rather Dan the News Man is rooted 6' under career wise.
I teach at a major east coast state university. A dean I know, who like virtually all of them is very liberal, scoffs at the idea of American exceptionalism, and more so at those who profess it. However, I have heard her state several times in speeches to students about our university's exceptionalism, and how we really are better than the rest. I'm not sure she is actually aware that her take on our university's exceptionalism is based on the same sort of patriotic fever, just at a different level.
I teach at a major east coast state university. A dean I know, who like virtually all of them is very liberal, scoffs at the idea of American exceptionalism, and more so at those who profess it. However, I have heard her state several times in speeches to students about our university's exceptionalism, and how we really are better than the rest. I'm not sure she is actually aware that her take on our university's exceptionalism is based on the same sort of patriotic fever, just at a different level.
"Dan Rather is afoot."
No, Dan Rather is a fucktard.
Dan Rather is a lying asshole.
Was Trump signing autographs or not?
None. Rather has all these concepts wrong. We all habitually misunderstand these things because we foolishly worship words. Because we worship words we fight over them.
Forget the words. These are weak tools to draw reality.
Its all tribalism, not a fixed concept but a fuzzy one, that tries to describe a set of human feelings that arise in all sorts of circumstances where groups are concerned. We are pack animals but we create all kinds of packs.
Nationalism is just a special name for one such pack, since nations came to be. Nations (nation-states) are recent inventions. So also is patriotism, loyalty to those fuzzy new nation states. In the old days it was loyalty to your chieftain or monarch or your band or tribe. What changed are words, not human nature.
An example of how it was, just before there were nations or patriots - At the battle of Pavia, 1525 (a fascinating incident, for all sorts of reasons).
There were no patriots or nationalists at Pavia. Loyalties were personal, due to feudalism, professional, because nearly all the participants were mercenaries, to chieftains, all those leaders of mercenary bands(condottieri, etc), or to the mercenary band itself, ones own comrades.
The thing is, all those men who fought so valiantly (the slaughter was tremendous) at Pavia were men just as we are. They had no words as we like to use for why they fought, but the feelings were the same.
It's white supremacy all the way down.
With their mean-spiritedness, love of "gotcha" behavior, and lack of critical thinking, journalists have a lot in common with middle-school girls.
What's the frequency, Kenneth?
I don't think General Patton, Winston Churchill nor Field Marshall Montgomery would agree with that "humility" thing.
And nothing says "humility" more than obama, eh?
Dan Rather is a fool.
That darn autocorrect will get you every time.
Some might call devious Dan a foot.
I think of him more as an asshole.
A lying asshole.
John Henry
101 ways to insult Trump voters.
Amusingly this is an example of American exceptionalist rhetoric.
An example of American exceptionalism.
Can we get a definition of the difference between nationalism and patriotism?
A bit more sophisticated than "patriotism is what I believe in. Nationalism is what you believe in." please.
And for bonus points, what is the problem with nationalism?
John Henry
Dan Rather's total distain for any republican and inability to see beyond his prejudices is well documented by the bogus Bush National Guard memo. Is there any rationale reason one should believe anything he says is objective?
Dan Rather is the last person on earth who should be analyzing the papers held by another person.
"Dan Rather is afoot."
And all this time I thought he was an asshole.
Dan "Fake but accurate" Rather should retire. He's as tiresome today as he was in 2004. His sell-by date expired 30 years ago.
I voted with the majority! Now lets all hope that we vote in the majority come Nov (or if you voted early or mail in after Nov3).
Patriotism is rooted in dedication.
What you do with that dedication is up to you.
Russia had the motherland, Germany had the fatherland. Both parents telling their children what to do and forcing them to do it.
We have the uncleland (uncle Sam) uncles provide advice that we may or may not listen to and may provide assistance in a pinch. They are not our parents and don't rule over us.
We do not have a governor, chancellor, premier or such to rule us.
We have a president who "presides" over us. Or over the states (a/k/a nation's, countries, sovereign entities, actually)
John Henry
I wonder how many people believe Donald Trump really signed a black sheet of paper. I realize that those, themselves familiar to setting up fake events, believe this was fake. Most signature pages I've drafted don't have a lot of information on them and would look black from a distance. And signing events are usually about style as the substance was discussed earlier. Either way, this blank sheet argument seems like lashing out by people who have no other valuable argument to make.
I said hostility for Rather because that's what I see but I do like the depleted soil much better, poetically.
And to go along with our uncle Sam, the people of the south pole have aunt Arctica.
John Henry
Even in the modern world if you leave the Anglo context there is no reliable meaning to nationalism or patriotism. Like in Spain for instance, these are difficult concepts that do not really map to an American argument.
Or consider the Islamic world, where lots of people, probably, will deny that nations are valid concepts, and that patriotism is a western perversion.
Dan Rather isn't rooted. He's just floating on the surface.
Dan: “And that foot is me”
I teach at a major east coast state university. A dean I know, who like virtually all of them is very liberal, scoffs at the idea of American exceptionalism, and more so at those who profess it. However, I have heard her state several times in speeches to students about our university's exceptionalism, and how we really are better than the rest. I'm not sure she is actually aware that her take on our university's exceptionalism is based on the same sort of patriotic fever, just at a different level.
I can pick two words and find a nice way to explain one of them and a nasty way to explain the other.
Patriotism is rooted in beer. Nationalism is rooted in root beer.
Was Dan Rather trying to unite the country when he went to Texas to find the documents to defeat the duly-elected President?
Based on etymology, patriotism is affection for the land of your father, while nationalism is affection for the land of your birth, presumably the land of your mother. So fatherland or motherland.
In connotation, patriotism is a sentiment, while nationalism is a channel for political organization without real policy content.
Also, Dan Rather is a fool.
Dan Rather is not 'afoot'. He is an asshole.
Dan Rather is afoot.
Dan Rather is a foot.
Dan Rather is a fool.
"Patriotism is rooted in humility. Nationalism is rooted in arrogance."
That is what physicists call "not even wrong".
There is little that scares me more than the Left believing they're going to "unite" us.
Their plan to "unite" the country seems to be making dissent of the Progressive agenda so fruitless and dangerous that no one dare try it.
Dan Rather is a POS. I don't often call people that, but he fits the bill.
Dan Rather is afoot.
Wrong body part.
Dan Rather is an asshole.
Hey asshole - go ask your fake memo, you fraud. Dan Rather is a fraud.
Dan Rather's fake memo. Created by Dan and pals to manipulate an election.
Dan is a good and solid democratical.
Redefining words. Typical of left? Or have I just not noticed the right do it?
White supremist now equals anyone not woke or those who do not want to tear down statues
Protest - now includes violent actions so they can avoid the word riot
Is there a time limit to Dan's Fraud?
Just wondering?
Bush Guard Documents: Forged
I think of patriotism as a form of esprit de corps, which may be described as "a feeling of pride, fellowship, and common loyalty shared by the members of a particular group."
I'm influenced by the writings of Renaissance and Revolutionary military analysts, especially De Saxe. A lot of thought was given to the role of morale in military success. It was seen that formations made up of troops levied from a single region typically had high morale, due to the shared origin and cameraderie - esprit de corps.
So I picked shared experience for the first poll. Nationalism is rooted in patriotism, I think. And Dan Rather is rooted in depleted soil.
Rather and his CBS team perpetuated journalistic fraud of the highest order.
Do we actually know that Donald Trump was writing on blank sheets of paper? Or is Rather eagerly and uncritically accepting bullshit because of how much he hates Republicans, in the same way he uncritically accepted a report nominally typed in 1973 but obviously produced using Microsoft Word?
And if the sheets of paper really are blank, so what? There’s a time for every document when the paper is blank (or the window for MS Word is empty). Trump initiates things. He makes them happen.
Dan Rather is afoot — and that foot needs a sock.
Dan Rather is a foot? No, Dan Rather is an asshole.
1973 memo typed on a modern computer.
LOL. The left will do anything to trick you.
PBS is running an anti FOX news propaganda show that showcases Dan Rather. The hack press(D) sure are desperate to remain the gatekeepers of "truth"
Dan Rather is a White Supremacist leftist.
I read it in a memo once.
Dan Rather shouldn't be talking about blank pieces of paper.
Dan Rather is more of anass than afoot, but I will leave anatomical identification to the preference of the reader.
What’s the frequency, Ann?
Patriotism and Nationalism are rooted in the same thing: love of country.
If you "love your country" you're a patriot. If you "love your countrymen" you're a nationalist.
The "patriots but not nationalists" are people who "love" America but hate Americans. IOW, they're liars
Mr. Forward has it right.
Let's take two words that are essentially synonyms, one of which your side at least purports to approve of (although it doesn't really), and one of which your side purports to find frightful, and then come up with something pithy-sounding but essentially meaningless purporting to distinguish the two.
Result? The appearance of wisdom and virtue. Voila!
Someone famous for reading what someone else wrote for him on a teleprompter and asking questions, for the most part, that other people wrote for him to ask. And looking good on television.
They want to make sure we're all united.. after they get rid of Trump.
It's a generalization, and not a very useful one. "Nationalism" is "patriotism" out of the mouth of someone who wants to denigrate it.
The United States is the only country in the world that was founded on an idea and its citizens are the only citizens in the world whose loyalty is loyalty to an ideal--human rights, limited government, democracy, and the government being the servant of the people.
I've never understood the blanket rejection of nationalism. If a nation is a defined geographic area that has established and unique norms and customs, assuming they are positive norms and customs (individual liberty, equality before the law, property rights, etc), why is wanting to defend that so horrible? And why is it unquestionably glorious and wonderful if others want to undo those norms and customs?
How come we can't talk shit about the malcontents and interlopers that seek to undermine our unique and positive norms and customs? Because slavery happened 200 years ago? Because a handful of people get killed while committing crimes? Because angry, pink-haired goblins on TV news say so?
This age will be defined by the combination of stunning ignorance paired with overwhelming arrogance.
I am not convinced he was signing a "blank" page. I often see legal docs with signature page on separate page (or part way down the last page), especially when signing counterparts (I would expect Presidential docs to use counterparts only if more than one signatory). But I really don't care. Other presidents have tried to "reassure" the public in multiple ways - the photos were just another way of doing that. Rather has no credibility and is a partisan liar of the worst order.
I am not convinced he was signing a "blank" page. I often see legal docs with signature page on separate page (or part way down the last page), especially when signing counterparts (I would expect Presidential docs to use counterparts only if more than one signatory). But I really don't care. Other presidents have tried to "reassure" the public in multiple ways - the photos were just another way of doing that. Rather has no credibility and is a partisan liar of the worst order.
Dan Rather has become a pathetic and bitter man. He should find a hobby.
Courage.
Semntics.
You need to understand that Dan Rather doesn't write his own stuff. While an Anchor, he had writers/producers that put "his" words on a teleprompter. if he has a book or even a tweet, its probably co-written by someone, and sent out under his name.
I noticed that he, and the other Liberal/leftists have almost IMMEDIATELY picked up on the "party line" response to Trump's working at the hospital and showing he appreciates everyone's well wishes. The Party line response is the "Rubber turkey" response, named after Press accusations that Bush flew to Iraq during Thanksgiving in surprise visit to the troops and served them Turkey. It was slightly dangerous and showed how much Bush cared. The Press had to find a way to denigrate it, so they declared that Bush's photo op Turkey was a Fake. It was a "Rubber turkey" they declared.
This time they seized upon Trump's paper, which was supposedly blank. Haha, it was just a fake photo op. During the riots, when Trump visited the Church, they tried to claim the bible he carried was fake. Or that there were no riots or danger or that the "peaceful protesters" had been callously pushed out. It never changes its always Orange man Bad, and Dan Rather is just following the party line. As usual.
Dan Rather is a POS.
Period.
Dan Rather, Peter Arnett, Walter Cronkite; Can you think of 3 people fuller of Bullshit?
These guys grew up lying about america; WHY would they stop now?
Patriotism and Nationalism are in real life, the same thing. Why differentiate between them?
The Left hates love of country, but it can't be too obvious about it. So it comes up with "Good Love of country" which it labels "patriotism". And "bad love of country" which it labels "nationalism". Once it does that, it can label ANY expression of love of country it dislikes as Bad or Nationalism. And then it can claim they love the USA too, but in the correct, right way. Unlike trump, they love the USA in quiet, imperceptible PATRIOTIC way. No flag waving, no songs, no outward expressions of praise, no saying anyone's unpatriotic, and no support for American industry, immigration laws, or workers. In other words, a "Quiet", "Humble", and Non-existent love of country.
If the left want something to be true (The Dan Rather fake memo/ Trump and the Russians stole the election from rightful owner Hillary) it's true!
Does anyone remember that Dan rather is a liar, who tried to help Kerry and defeat George Bush in 2004, with fake documents and a fake national guard story? Or that he stonewalled and lied to the public when he was caught? Or that he to resign his job?
why are we still listening to the lying, fraudulent, old left-wing fool?
I look forward to seeing photographs with different lighting/from different angles showing print on the page. Danny boy should really stay away from news stories that involve writings on paper.
What is he even doing getting a gig? He is a fraud and has always been one.
You can only be proud of your nation if a democratical is at the helm.
Old leftwing rule.
Patriotism (at least in these United States) is loyalty to federalism and indifference to nationalism. We should feel sorry for nationalists because they tend to come from shithole states and like to take credit for the technological, spiritual, social and economic success of the libtard coastal elite states that apply all that stoopid book learnin nonsense. Really, what is nationalism in the USA? Blind loyalty to the state you were born or otherwise naturalized in? I suppose if I'm honest, I'm nationalistic in regards to California. Not the California of today, but the California of the past as viewed through a childrens rose coloured nostalgic collide-o-scope.
Dan Rather is effete
I once saw patriotism defined as a belief in “women and children first”. The logic is the survival of the tribe takes priority.
You are on the Titanic. Should lifeboats be for women and children first? I say yes.
I don’t know for sure, but I bet Dan Rather says “Leftists first.”
Birkel says “Birkel first”.
Dan Rather has an obsession with the Bush family because he resented their success in Texas (where Dan is a yellow dog Democrat).
Remember when he tried to ambush GHW Bush in a TV interview, but Bush saw it coming and turned the tables on him?It was humiliating for little Danny boy.
Apparently he's run out of '70s musicians to interview.
Dan Rather is afoot.
New Survey:
Dan Rather is:
A foot
A fool
An ass
Howard: "Patriotism (at least in these United States) is loyalty to federalism and indifference to nationalism."
LOL
Howard playing political philosopher is always a source of much amusement.
Blogger buwaya said...
Even in the modern world if you leave the Anglo context there is no reliable meaning to nationalism or patriotism. Like in Spain for instance, these are difficult concepts that do not really map to an American argument.
Especially if you live in Catalonia. But we are seeing more talk of secession, by both sides.
Dan Rather....I used to like him on 60 Minutes back in the day. Then he took over the anchor spot on the CBS Evening News and bombed. Then there was "fake but accurate"...oh, well.
Does anyone under 50 even know who Dan Rather is? Much less give a damn?
Both are rooted in a shared history, and to an extent both highly overlap each other. That is what is worrisome about the present attacks on the country's history- when that shared history is gone, so is the country that lived it.
Dan Rather is a liar- full stop. In Memogate, he and Mapes definitely knew the documents were fake, but ran with them anyway because he was too fucking stupid to understand how the forgeries would be quickly revealed.
Dan Rather is agreeing with Howard Zinn: "dissent is the highest form of patriotism"
(or, actually New York City Mayor John Lindsay )
in, other words: USA BAD! ORANGEMAN BAD! WHITE PEOPLE BAD!! Death to America!!
And he is agreeing with Shona Kambarami, when he said "All Nationalism Is Racist"
also, Dan agrees with Tennessee Coats: "America is defined by racism. There is no American nationalism without racism."
in, other words: USA BAD! ORANGEMAN BAD! WHITE PEOPLE BAD!! Death to America!!
About the "blank piece of paper," I saw an analysis showing that depending on the focus of the digital camera (most probably on the President's face) the tiny print on the page would be out of focus and overwhelmed by the whiteness. The signature, larger and in close-together letters, would still appear.
But I've pretty much resolved to ignore all these gotchas anyway.
Ken B said...
I once saw patriotism defined as a belief in “women and children first”. The logic is the survival of the tribe takes priority.
All societies are based on rules to protect pregnant women and young children. All else is surplus age, excrescence, adornment, luxury or folly which can--and must--be dumped in emergency to preserve this prime function. As racial survival is the only universal morality, no other basic is possible. Attempts to formulate a “perfect society” on any foundation other than “women and children first!” is not only witless, it is automatically genocidal. Nevertheless, starry-eyed idealists (all of them male) have tried endlessly--and no doubt will keep on trying. -- Lazurus Long (ie: Robert Heinlein)
Blogger buwaya said...
"We all habitually misunderstand these things because we foolishly worship words."
But the one of the deepest roots of nationalism is a shared language.
As I understand it, patriotism comes from the Latin "patria," meaning something like what our song says: "Land where my fathers died . . . . "
It's the land, the region, that you are connected to by birth or experience.
Nationalism is connection to your nation. In most countries it's all the people who speak your language. In America, that doesn't work; we derive from many different nations. Here the "language" that we have in common (or should share) is the ideas of the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, the state constitutions that followed from it.
Yes, Dan, these words have meaning. When you attach some offhand moral judgment to them (humility and arrogance)you make it much harder, not easier, to think clearly about them.
The left also hated Bush, McCain, and Romney, but they hate Trump the most because he is actually successful. I also think that Obama (for all his mediocrity etc) was a demi-god to them. Their object of worship has been deposed in that his anointed successor has been rejected.
Back to the future: The letter typed by W's National Guard commander used MicroSoft Word a few decades before it was invented. Dan Rather's story was fake, and he can't ever acknowledge that. Even though it was proven to be a fake, proven by me and others, as a matter of fact.
I read that wrong. I thought that is read, "Dan Rather is a Fool."
Anybody besides me realize that Democrats try to hide their fundamental hatred of the United States as a form of patriotism? This is an attitude that goes back at least 50 years, if not further.
Gone are the days when Jayson Blair and Dan Rather could get in trouble for lying or spreading fake news. Brian Williams is unlucky that he got caught when he did. Had he been caught in 2020, absolutely nothing would happen to him. In fact, he’s back now and all is forgiven.
The media has no standards anymore. None. Except “speak truth to power,” or more accurately, “get Trump, by hook or by crook.”
I don't want--nay, can't--be united with State-shtuppers like Rather. There's something about having a gun to my head that makes me want to get away from them.
I read it as Dan Rather is a fool.
I agree
"Dan Rather is afoot."
Better
Dan Rather is a fool.
This make no sense - he is just saying "our feelings for the country are good and patriotic because we are good and yours are bad and nationalistic because you are bad."
Dat Rather interview of a post-stroke Dicky Betts was enlightening...
Patriotism is rooted in papa. Nationalism is rooted in mama.
The correct answer is "honor."
Pride in your homeland is only allowed if you are from somewhere else.
Ever notice that leftwing rule?
Dan Rather is no Walter Cronkite which seems to have been a longstanding issue. In any case I'm certain humility is not a component of his life from which he can give us any insight about.
It's gotta bug ol' Dan like a dog that just won't carry his cattle in a Stetson in a thunderstorm that a whole big ol' bunch of journalists were witting conspirators in a plot to overthrow the government. And none of them have suffered for it, while his reputation will forever be disgraced.
Patriotism may well be rooted in humility--and appreciation for the gift of this country that, as Obama said, you didn't build. Your forefathers did however and they gave it to you--which means you need to cherish and protect it and to pass it on to future generations.
What is Dan Rather rooted in? I'd say hubris and a pile of horse manure so high that you can barely see Danno's hairline--everything else is covered.
Interesting that Rather would say "humility," because he lacks that utterly.
Being patriotic, I root for my roots.
I've always thought of the distinction between "patriotism" and "nationalism" as the differences in the was they view of other countries. That is, while both terms could be used to describe a love of one's country and a belief that it's the greatest place to live on earth, nationalism goes much further and says that it's imperative that one's country should conquer and rule all the others. So there's this outword aggression or bellicosity associated with those who could fairly be described as nationalists versus those who could be described as merely patriots.
LillyBart@8:03AM/
"...or have they always been this way and has their anger just melted off the thin veneer of civility?"
----BINGO!!!
"Patriotism is rooted in humility. Nationalism is rooted in arrogance."
Yeah, I'm not buying it. I kinda sorta think patriotism and national are pretty similar, or, if not, overlap a lot. Kinda like "freedom" and "liberty". Both are great -- "liberty" is more forceful, though. (See, Henry, Patrick).
To me, Nationalism is the opposite of Internationalism. And the pejoritive term for "Internationalism" is "Globalism."
I'm sick of globalism. I want American blue collar workers to work in American factories, and not get their jobs shipped out to Mexico or China, because of some globalistic trade deal.
And, I think that position is patriotic. So, there!
Democrats never engage in cheesy photo ops.
I think it would be hard to read a book that was written in a bubble. So I'll pass on Rather's Tome.
Blogger Francisco D said...
Dan Rather has an obsession with the Bush family because he resented their success in Texas (where Dan is a yellow dog Democrat).
Dan has never gotten over being kicked out of Marine basic training as "unsuitable."
Both Bushes had military records and it is no coincidence that he went after Bush II's record.
Dan Rather. Humble patriot.
Snort!
I wanted to say patriotism is rooted in love, and nationalism is rooted in pride, but that wasn't an option. The humility/arrogance formulation is rubbish, although I suppose arrogance can be a manifestation of pride.
That said, I think malign nationalism is most often a reflection of a sense of grievance, a sense both that there is a "we," and that the "we" is a victim of grave historical injustice (and wounded pride). Whether it's Germans having to pay a huge war indemnity after the Great War, Japanese being denied a huge war indemnity after the Russo-Japanese war, Chinese upset at having been carved up by the Western Powers and Japan, or Koreans upset at having been the prize in four rounds of the Great Game in East Asia (China vs Japan 1895, Japan vs Russia 1905, Japan vs Russia/US 1945, and US vs China 1951). In that sense, at the sub-national level, BLM is a species of Black nationalism, and one can imagine its counterpart, "White nationalism."
There will be one paragraph for Dan Rather in most history books.
Dan Rather will be described as the first Democrat Globalist liar who was caught pretending to be an objective journalist.
His obvious lie and the fact that most democrats supported him during and after his lying will be a primary example.
He will be the object lesson in the section that describes the purchase and curation of the media by leftist billionaires who used their position to push a marxist agenda in an attempt to subvert the United States and the freedom of it's people.
We will write this in the history books after we defeat the leftists.
wendybar said...
"Dan Rather is afoot."
"Better
Dan Rather is a fool."
Best
Dan Rather is a lying douche bag
I tried to vote twice, contaminated soil, system wouldn't let me. Apparently it's non-Democratic.
but but but
blank sheet of paper gate!
Patriotism (at least in these United States) is loyalty to federalism and indifference to nationalism.
So the leftists who hate the electoral college and talk on and on and on about popular vote totals are nationalists? And unpatriotic?
As my father would have said: "Dan, don't go away mad, just go away."
Dan Rather isn't a foot.
He's a horse's ass.
Dan Rather is a leftist and a life long Democrat. that's why he behaves the way he does.
LOL - having someone from the MSM defining "Patriotism" and "Nationalism" - precious.
Ladies and Gentlemen, we've been treated to a 'Twofer' - former journalist who has been completely discredited because he got caught(fake news) and a member of a discredited industry whose lies we see and read every minute 24/7.
I'd say Dan Rather rather is rooted in compost, or Bullshit if you prefer.
Interesting notion in this thread that journalistic standards have fallen so much over the past 4 years that Dan Rather would probably suffer no consequences for doing what he did in the year 2020. This is a topic for Professor Althouse to investigate further, flesh out a little more.Like many other things, has the Overton window moved that much?
Anti-patriotism is misandristic. Anti-nationalism is misogynistic.
"The Prime Minister's devious hand is afoot." -- Yes, Prime Minister
I think some of the patriotism vs. nationalism question is easier to see if you look outside the US. Look at fairly recent European nationalist squabbles (i.e., please let's not drag WWII into it, at least not yet). Northern Ireland vs. RoI. Serbia vs. Croatia vs. Bosnia and then Kosovo. The Basques. Flemish vs. Walloons. The Baltic states vs. the USSR and then Russia.
Some of these conflicts have been horrifically violent; all of them have been passionate, and all the nations involved are, by the standards of even most American states, unbelievably small. So are they patriotic conflicts, or nationalistic ones? I think both, though they're more likely to be described as patriotic from inside, as it were, and nationalistic from outside. You call the breakup of Yugoslavia "nationalistic" when you are sitting a long way off and looking at it, but in actuality the Serbs and the Croats and the Bosnians and the Kosovars and the Montenegrans are all patriots, patriots of their own small nationalities. (Yes, even the Serbs; even Milosevic and Mladic. There is nothing precluding a patriot from also being a bigot. See also: the IRA; ETA; &c.)
But note this: On the other side of all these conflicts is the EU. Because the EU is formed around the ghastly idea that all these passionate, violent affections are superfluous, and the entire continent will be ever so much more peaceable and efficient if it settles down into one large, centrally ruled, minutely regularized Euro-blob. That the manifold, brilliantly different, distinctive cultures of Europe do not stem from one generalized "European-ness" but from dozens of small, intensely passionate loves of different small places by different small populaces escapes the EU internationalists entirely.
"Even in the modern world if you leave the Anglo context there is no reliable meaning to nationalism or patriotism. Like in Spain for instance, these are difficult concepts that do not really map to an American argument."
Perhaps that has something to do with the fact that Spain has been conquered time and again for 3500 years: Carthage, Phoenicia, Greece, Rome, Visigoths, Moors, Houses of Castile and Aragon, the House of Borbon, and the fascist state during the Franco period all took a turn. Plus, Cantalonians, Galicians, Basque and even the Andalucians don't like the Castilian Spanish all that much. It's a fractured populace held together by convenience and La Liga football.
"There will be one paragraph for Dan Rather in most history books."
I'll take the under.
So Dan Rather has a new book, huh? Who wrote it?
Throbbing Memo fraud Dan won't be discussing his party's real problems.
Dan Rather is definitely NOT rooted in depleted soil. He produces natural fertilizer on a daily basis.
If it weren't for nationalism the Nazis would have won. And the left is still bitter about this (at some level).
Because they don't know that, or I should say they don't want to know that, since the left now defines itself as being anti-Nazi and it's opponents are by the left's frequently reiterated definition: Nazis.
But that's the past. What the left wants today is for the US to become something like China politically. They also want to destroy, to humiliate, to erase, and to get rid of Americans, ie. especially white Americans and especially white Americans that are not left-wing.
I think the latter goal is closer to the hearts of most people on the left.
If we accept that the left is intensely tribal and that it will always be intensely tribal, then it all makes a kind of sense. The desire to make war on or to destroy the other side is what animates the hearts of the left. But strangely many people are unaware of this, even as they act out in ways that will only have this consequence.
Whatever the left claims to be, whatever they will tell you they are thinking, that usually is far less than the truth.
Michael K: "Dan has never gotten over being kicked out of Marine basic training as "unsuitable."'
It's actually much worse than that, but only because Rather has bragged about his "marine" service so many times over the years.
Our Dapper Danny was at Sam Houston State during the Korean War and in those days you could only get deferments for 1 semester and could be drafted while in college.
So Danny went and joined the Army Reserve and stayed in it right up to the moment combat operations in Korea ceased.
Important enough to repeat: Rather often refers to himself as a Marine when he has no right to that honor, but he does it shamelessly anyway.
Then, after graduating (I believe), he signed up for the Marines but only lasted 4 months before being disqualified and sent home.
Of course, this is precisely the sort of military record, like Stolen Valor hack liar Senator Da Nang Dick Blumenthal's, that garners tremendous respect and admiration and praise from certain Michigan-based LLR "lawyers".
For some reason, whenever the ghost of Dan Rather summons itself to the real world, I remember the "What's the frequency Kenneth" quote made by Rather at the time and just as I did then I think of the Robert Downey movie "Putney Swope." During the scene of the board meeting when Putney takes over the advertising agency, he repeatedly says to some sleepy little rotund guy, "What's the syllable, Mario. What's the syllable." Like the movie itself it was a meaningless non sequitur and I can only assume that's why I thought of it.
Who gives a shite about any of the above, you may ask? I don't know, beats me.
Yes, Dan! Dan! Dan!
You Lazarushian-leather Gunga Dan!
Though I’ve belted you and flayed you,
By the livin’ Gawd that made you,
You’re a lesser man than I am, Gunga Dan!
Dan Rather should really be shunned and banished from the public square after knowingly trying to tank GW Bush's 2004 re-election campaign with doctored and manufactured TANG material 2 weeks before an election. I would rather spend the rest of my life never hearing from him again, thank you very much.
Nonapod said...
nationalism goes much further and says that it's imperative that one's country should conquer and rule all the others.
If this were true left wingers wouldn't use the term to describe the right which largely believes the rest of the world should be expected to manage itself.
American exceptionalism has many meanings, but the one I like is that the US was different - that is, an exception - from all the other nations of the world. Our government was created by consent of the governed, and was limited in authority to such an extent that the individual citizen and individual rights were paramount over all government power. Nobody else on earth did that; nobody else on earth does that now, and the US is losing it rapidly.
This isn't like Imperial measurements versus the metric system. This is more like the difference between being a farmer and a serf. I hope American exceptionalism experiences a rebirth in the near future, it is a damn valuable idea, and an even more precious practice.
Dan Rather should really be shunned and banished from the public square after knowingly trying to tank GW Bush's 2004 re-election campaign with doctored and manufactured TANG material 2 weeks before an election.
And yet Hollywood made a move about him and the TANG scandal in which it was all true and he was a hero.
And yet Hollywood made a move about him and the TANG scandal in which it was all true and he was a hero.
That was a payoff to Mary Mapes. If you lose your career fighting for the left they will ensure you get a retirement package. Bill Ayers and Bernadine Dohrn were paid off with education system sinecures, some received executive positions in NGOs, while others are paid off on the university system speech tour or books. Mary got a movie.
Ensuring your fallen teammates are taken care of financially encourages those still in the trenches to take risks for the team.
The man destroyed his credibility and the lefties still love him.
That should tell you how smart and/or evil liberals are.
If you are a liberal, you can fuck up on a monumental scale and nobody cares...in fact, you will still sell books and get movie deals.
Ask St. Comey...
Dan Rather's clumsy attempts to smear GWB and GHWB are reminders that the Media is the propaganda arm of the DNC.
His Bush hatred is like today's Trump Derangement. Nixon and Reagan were both literally worse than Hitler.
That is the media's job.
doctored and manufactured TANG material 2 weeks before an election.
Actually, it was a bit before that. Wednesday, September 8 - if I recall - was the air date of 60 Minutes II.
Pointing out the TANG documents were fake is just sooo wrong.
On the plus side, Dan is one of the few newscasters who, so far as is currently known, didn't rape any of his subordinates. When questioned about his admirable self control in this regard, he said it was easy to focus on the job at hand when you're working with women like Mary Mapes. She wasn't like one of those blonde bimbos at Fox with their distracting good looks. He passed over many good looking women to hire Mary Mapes. She really knew how to ferret out the big story and bring it to his attention. He probably couldn't have broken that story without her help. She made him what he is today. I'm sure that he sometimes contemplates all the hot women he could have hired in place of Mary Mapes and rejoices that he had the professionalism to pass them over and hire her.
I don't think National Socialism was rooted in German patriotism and pride. It was rather rooted in German resentment and defeat. The moral of the story is not to dwell too much on past ill treatment and defeats but to take pride in your nation's achievements and durability. Resentment can breed more and bigger monsters than arrogance.....The Prussian General Staff were a collection of assholes, but they were the Lincoln Cabinet compared to the Nazi high command.
I will go with Samuel Johnson, who never met Donald Trump, but boldly declared back in 1775: "Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel."
He passed over many good looking women to hire Mary Mapes. She really knew how to ferret out the big story and bring it to his attention.
Even though it was a lie pretty easy to demonstrate. Maybe Mary didn't know the history of the military or of word processors well enough. Writing about stuff you know nothing about can be hazardous.
Dan Rather is not afoot. He's aheel.
Fifteen years ago, Iowahawk (Dave Burge) published a series of 'Dan Rather Mysteries,' with titles like 'My Teleprompter is Deadly' -- parodies of Micky Spillane / hard-boiled detective stories. Still very funny. Many inside jokes and character references from those days.
The Poor Man's LLR-lefty C**** gadfly: "I will go with Samuel Johnson, who never met Donald Trump, but boldly declared back in 1775: "Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel."
Your coup failed.
Deal with it.
While serial plagiarist/child-sniffer Joe Biden has found a new chapter, albeit because the Democrats were incapable of finding a better candidate than Oldfinger, serial fabricator Dan Rather doesn't deserve such an opportunity after the whole Dubya TANG fabrication. He should now and forever be a subject of mockery and ridicule. He is the poster child -- well, poster grandfather -- for the descent of the once-honored profession of journalism into the steaming dungpile it has become today. Fuck off, Rather.
"Ensuring your fallen teammates are taken care of financially encourages those still in the trenches to take risks for the team."
I haven't watched the revisionist movie "Truth" but I thought it wound up being less of a hagiographic fiasco as we were initially led to believe. A friend of mine I respect said it showed Mapes and Rather being confronted with the fact the TANG material were forgeries and one by one each getting fired or let go.
It's the unhinged axe grinding Burkett that takes the brunt of the blame for "duping" our heros. Even so, its supposedly unflinching in showing the amount of humiliation and reputational harm the entire CBS NEWS network felt as the story imploded. I will steel up the courage to watch it this weekend because I am curious.
I think Rathers forced retirement followed by the humiliating collapse of his wrongful termination suit provided a much need cautionary tale for our partisan press who used to enjoy this blood sport with impunity.
With the latest Covington school libel cases winding its way through court, perhaps the worm has turned?
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