September 22, 2020

If Barbara Lagoa is Trump's pick for the Supreme Court, it will forefront a subject that roiled the presidential election in 2000 — Elian Gonzalez.

I'm reading "Lagoa’s Role in Florida Will Be a Big Factor in Trump’s Supreme Court Pick/Judge Barbara Lagoa lacks some of the usual credentials of a Supreme Court justice, but her roots in the Cuban-American community could make her an attractive choice for President Trump" (NYT).
Ms. Lagoa represented a relative of a 5-year-old boy found off the Florida coast after his mother had drowned trying to cross over from Cuba. His name was Elián González. Federal agents would eventually seize Elián and return him to his father in Cuba, setting off political shock waves that arguably cost former Vice President Al Gore the 2000 presidential election when he lost Florida.

“After six months, countless briefs, a few all-nighters, two oral arguments and one midnight raid by armed commandos, we learned what it was like to lose,” Eliot Pedrosa, another lawyer on the team, said at a ceremony last year when Judge Lagoa joined the Florida Supreme Court. The experience of “watching armed federal agents use force to pre-empt process,” he said, was “seared into her soul.”...

The Cuban-American community admired her work on Elián’s case, taking issue with the federal government’s position that the boy’s father, Juan Miguel González, was his sole legal guardian and had the right to make the decision to have him returned to Cuba. Also playing a role was a young lawyer named Brett M. Kavanaugh, now a Supreme Court justice himself, who represented the boy’s Miami relatives when they needed someone to work on a federal appeal....
Here's a March 10, 2000 NYT article that mentions Lagoa, "Federal Judge Fails to Rule On Fate of Cuban Youngster":
In a federal hearing that could be the first step in determining the future of Elian Gonzalez, lawyers for relatives of the 6-year-old boy argued today that he had been denied the due process granted to all other aliens who come to this country seeking asylum. Lawyers for the government countered that Elian was too young to read or understand an application for asylum and that his father in Cuba, who demands the boy's return, had the legal right to speak for his son.

That is how such cases are traditionally decided, in this country and around the world, based on common sense, Edwin S. Kneedler, the deputy United States solicitor general, said this morning in a hearing on a lawsuit filed by Elian's relatives in Miami, who seek an asylum hearing by the Immigration and Naturalization Service for the boy..... ''Parents speak for their children,'' Mr. Kneedler said.

But lawyers for the boy's Miami relatives argued that there was no age limit in immigration laws for someone seeking asylum, and that Elian, who was found floating on an inner tube off South Florida on Thanksgiving Day, had formally requested asylum.

He has signed a request for asylum, ''and he understands it,'' said Barbara Lagoa, a lawyer for the boy's great-uncle Lazaro Gonzalez.

Elian, whose mother, Elizabet Brotons, drowned along with 10 other Cubans in their effort to reach the United States, has said that he wants to remain in Miami, and understands that a request for asylum would allow that, said lawyers and relatives here in Miami.

Ms. Lagoa, one of eight lawyers gathered around the plaintiff's table, used immigration law as a hammer to pound out her argument for an asylum hearing. ''Any alien may apply for asylum, without exception,'' Ms. Lagoa said. ''The statute applies to any alien, and a child's right to seek asylum is well established. The statute is as inclusive as Congress could have made it.''

Judge Moore pressed Mr. Kneedler on the way the immigration service has handled the case, asking him why, if Juan Gonzalez is the only one who can speak for the boy's legal rights, did the agency turn Elian over to Lazaro Gonzalez in the first place. 'You didn't put him in the custody of the father,'' Judge Moore said.

Mr. Kneedler said Elian was already traumatized by his ordeal -- he had drifted in the Atlantic for two days, terrified and dehydrated -- and it just made sense to parole the boy into the care of relatives who showed up at the hospital in Hollywood. 'It was a fast-moving situation, and it was a perfectly human response'' to place the child in the care of family, Mr. Kneedler said.

The family's lawyers asked that if the father was in legal control of his son's immigration status, why was he not here in court, fighting for him. Juan Gonzalez, who has the backing of President Fidel Castro of Cuba, has said he would not plead for his son in what he called a corrupt American court....
If Lagoa is the nominee, the Senate Judiciary hearings will spend time on this highly emotional subject. The 2000 election was determined by a few hundred votes in Florida, and it's easy to see how the feelings about the Elian Gonzalez case hurt Al Gore. Bringing the subject back up might not hurt Joe Biden, however, and stories about little children facing U.S. Immigration officials could backfire on Donald Trump.

75 comments:

Wilbur said...

I was in Miami when this occurred, and one sad fact was immediately evident: By taking this fight to the court of public opinion, the Miami relatives (or more properly, those directing this from the background) were handing a victory to Castro.

He won either way it turned out. If Elian stayed with the relatives in Miami Castro would trumpet this alleged injustice (using the father and son as the face of the propaganda) for years thereafter. If the boy was awarded back to the father, Castro would exult over his triumph and use the boy as the face of joyous socialism for years thereafter.

As horrific as Castro's regime was/is, the boy belonged with his father. It's not hard to imagine a scenario where the shoe is on the other foot, with an American parent wanting to retrieve a child from the clutches of relatives residing in a Communist or Islamic regime. The precedent set if the boy was not returned to his father could come back and bite us hard in the butt in the future.

Rusty said...

When the law doesn't work for the left then they resort to violence.
If there is a just god then the Clintons have a lot to answer for.

Paul Snively said...

TIL simply reading the name “Elian Gonzalez” is enough to instantly make me feel sick to my stomach. It all comes back: that picture from the raid. Ruby Ridge. Waco. The surprise isn’t that we seem to be looking at a second revolutionary/civil war now; it’s that we didn’t have one in the ‘90s.

Unknown said...

I think Trump is highly focused on his reelection campaign, and the nominee he selects will be the one that helps his chances the most.

Barbara Lagoa = helps win Florida for Trump
Amy Barrett = helps motivate the base, and inflames the left, because she's pro-life

Lagoa sailed through her confirmation hearing for the court of appeals (80-15). That means a lot of Democrats voted to confirm her. She's a Republican. She might be pro-life, many Republicans are. But some Republicans are not. (Harry Blackmun was a Republican).

Barrett did not sail through her confirmation hearing. It was rough (54-42). She's religious, and Catholic, and pro-life. Pro-choice people are already asserting that a religious group she is in, People of Praise, was the inspiration for Margaret Atwood and The Handmaid's Tale. So if she's the nominee, expect to see a lot of crazy protests.

Lagoa will be attacked, too, of course. But they're not sure how to attack her, because the paper trail is so slight. Nobody actually knows if she's pro-life, for instance.

Everybody knows how unhinged the left is about Roe v. Wade. Everybody remembers what the left tried to do with Kavanaugh.

Why did Trump announce that he was nominating a woman? Well, it's highly unlikely they will accuse her of being a rapist. The attacks on Barrett will be bad, but not Kavanaugh bad. I think she's going to be the nominee.

RMc said...

I was in Miami when this occurred

So was I. The wife and I were in a hotel, maybe 20 blocks away from all the action. I looked out the window, saw the blue lights, then turned to my wife and said, "Time to go."

Tina Trent said...

The subtext here is that honest conservative Cuban-Americans know that their own
leadership is corrupt. Figures like Al Cardenas, a Jeb Bush nevertrumper who screwed up the American Conservative Union, and his bag-boy Marco! Rubio are widely despiseed among the, truly old so-con guard. Of course one can't underestimate beltway miopia, and Cardenas is the face the Bushies and nevertrumpers use to front their movement.

But the conservative cuban bloc is long gone. Second-generation Cuban-American voters are hard left identity politics voters. They've learned in the schools precisely how much it pays to preen identity politics and despise the country that saved their parents.

jaydub said...

" The precedent set if the boy was not returned to his father...."

Precedent is no longer relevant. The only thing that matters is which tribe has the hammer at the moment.

rehajm said...

The precedent set if the boy was not returned to his father could come back and bite us hard in the butt in the future.

Did that happen...or is the future still in the future?

Birches said...

I don't think we want someone in SCOTUS who argued that children can declare asylum at the border.

I'm not sure why she's even in consideration with this kind of baggage...

Birkel said...

The problem with that article is that it assumes a slave - Mr Gonzalez - inside a slave state - Cuba - cannot be assumed to be expressing his true wish.

Mr Gonzalez could not exercise free will.

tim maguire said...

Wilbur said...As horrific as Castro's regime was/is, the boy belonged with his father.

As I recall (you may recall better, so correct me if I'm wrong), the father was estranged from the mother and had no role in Elian's upbringing. Biologically, he was being returned to his father. Practically, he was being returned to a stranger. And his mother, who gave her life to have him raised in freedom, had her dying wishes thwarted precisely because she died for them. No small irony there.

Temujin said...

I don't think this will hurt Trump at all. Only the leftward media will try to use this as a club to beat on Trump. In Florida, it will only strengthen the Cuban American community, and those who support them, to come out enthusiastically for Trump. If they pound on the kids coming over from Mexico, it'll also remind people that Trump is trying to secure the US borders, while the Cortez-puppet, Joe Biden, will not. Kamala will not. I suggest that they'll lose on this argument- bigly.

Though the next Justice needs to represent much more than this, by the NYT putting this out there, you can see the Left's playbook on Lagoa going forward. With Barrett, it'll be her Catholicism. They're going to look bad either way. They are going to shine a light on exactly who they are. Outside of the Left Coast and Northeast, it will not play well.

John henry said...

I'm with Wilbur.

Tough case, tough situation but the boy belonged with his father.

I have a lot of sympathy for not sending him back which I x why it is a tough situation

John Henry

stevew said...

I had forgotten that I was roiled back then. So much roiling since then it just kinda blends into my memory.

This selection bugs me the same way making the choice based on sex or race does: it has little to do with qualifications and everything to do with political expediency. She seems rather inexperienced. Nominating the most qualified individual, that shares your philosophy on the Constitution and the law, insulates you and them from partisan attack. Doesn't stop those attacks, just makes it much easier to expose them for what they are.

BUMBLE BEE said...

Elian, Ruby Ridge and Branch Davidians, good times. Tramp is the worst Hitler.

Wince said...

...and stories about little children facing U.S. Immigration officials could backfire on Donald Trump.

"All the way back to Coney."

hawkeyedjb said...

One aspect of the decision to return Gonzalez has always bothered me. Both Bill Clinton and Janet Reno seemed to believe that there is no objective difference between growing up and living in a communist shithole versus a free society. The father, of course, had nothing to say in the matter - he had to act out what Castro told him to do. Maybe he wanted his son to grow up free. The powers-that-be in the USA did not.

I Callahan said...

the boy belonged with his father

No, he didn't. All available evidence showed that his father was completely content with the child going to Florida with his mother. The fact that Castro used this to his advantage by most likely forcing his father to say what he said is expected of a communist dictator; what WASN'T expected is that an American president would cave in to the news media and a communist dictator.

This event was the linchpin of my life when it came to a number of personal issues as well as my political philosophy to this day.

The RIGHT thing is NEVER to leave a child in a communist hellhole. The RIGHT thing is to heed the wishes of both of his parents at the time, and let him live in a free country. This is unarguable to me. Any argument otherwise is just parental emotion kicking in (what if it were MY child).

Jess said...

I think there shouldn't be any hearings. Senators can examine the nominee's record, they should get a few days to state their opinion, and the votes should be cast. There's nothing in the Constitution that demands a hearing, and advice doesn't require a committee.

wendybar said...

I remember that. The time armed men broke into an immigrants house, and roughly took the little 6 year old traumatized boy and handed him back to Fidel Castro a Communist that the Cubans in Miami despise. Good times. When the Government manhandled people. (Yet, look at what they say about how Trump has treated people...when it was THEM all along.)

Ralph L said...

Wasn't there a famous child's rights advocate in the Clinton White House? But Fidel-worship trumped that.

wendybar said...

tim maguire said...
Wilbur said...As horrific as Castro's regime was/is, the boy belonged with his father.

As I recall (you may recall better, so correct me if I'm wrong), the father was estranged from the mother and had no role in Elian's upbringing. Biologically, he was being returned to his father. Practically, he was being returned to a stranger. And his mother, who gave her life to have him raised in freedom, had her dying wishes thwarted precisely because she died for them. No small irony there.

9/22/20, 7:10 AM

Yet now we are being lectured that we should honor peoples final wishes.

Ralph L said...

So Kavanaugh will get another chance to jump on her at those riotous SCOTUS parties at Thomas' house.

Expat(ish) said...

The Gonzales kidnapping by the Federal Government is the day I became a second amendment absolutist.

It is SEARED into my memory. I still have the hat.

-XC

Rusty said...

"Wilbur said...As horrific as Castro's regime was/is, the boy belonged with his father."
The child was and is the property of the state. The Clintons handed their friend Fidel a public relations coup and dissuaded, for a time, other Cubans from risking their lives to get to the US.

mockturtle said...

This selection isn't likely to bring in new Cuban-American voters in FL. They are already Trump supporters. But it's a clever choice from several other angles. Both Lagoa and Barrett are Catholic, of course, but Lagoa is arguably less likely to let her religion influence her decisions. It also shows he is not afraid to double up the diversity quotient which may have greater effect in the larger Hispanic community. And most importantly, Lagoa is less likely to elicit the usual knee-jerk response from the left that Barrett has already done. All in all, a wise Latina choice.

Leland said...

I agree with Temujin; how does this hurt Trump? Show a softer aspect of his immigration policy? A harder stance against communism?

Fernandinande said...

Lagoa looks like Luanne Platter.

narciso said...

In cuba the state owns you, i thought that rendition was one of the worst things ever.and holder and greg craig future obama counsel were at the heart of it.

mockturtle said...

I don't think we want someone in SCOTUS who argued that children can declare asylum at the border.

It was the child's mother who was seeking asylum for both herself and her child.

Qwinn said...

Tina Trent: As an old time second generation social conservative Cuban American, what you say indeed WAS happening, meaning the third generation was going liberal, but recent events have changed that. The grandkids are looking at the current Dems and saying "Holy shit, dad was right, they ARE commies." Just look at current polls in Florida. I'm pretty damn proud of 'em. It was looking grim, but they appear to have woken up in time.

Ken B said...

It’s good to have a candidate to embarrass Democrats, but one that it would embarrass Murkowski and Romney to oppose is better.

Bay Area Guy said...

The Elian Gonzalez saga was a big deal at the time.

Democrat Prez Clinton had the boy forcibly removed at gunpoint, and sent back to tyrannical Cuba. Liberals cheered.

Democrat Vice-President Gore supposedly opposed this, but lost Florida by 527 votes, and the Presidency. Conservatives cheered.

James Pawlak said...

We might remember Janet Reno's "proactive" role in the slaughter of innocents at the
Waco/Branch-Davidian massacre.

MD Greene said...

The NYT preaches to its choir, period. Not sure it is relevant to anyone outside the in-group now.

We subscribed until sometime last year. The only regret is not canceling when Jill Abramson was fired. It still looks like a newspaper, but that's a chimera.

William said...

I wonder how feminists would feel if a proud father from a Horn of Africa country demanded his daughter back so that he could raise her in the time immemorial ways of his people rather than with those corrupt Americans.. All those intact clitorises lead inevitably to rampant consumerism and licentiousness. Bring her back so that he might instruct her in how to lead a good life.... I suppose there's a special cut-out for Communists as opposed to Fascists and Islamacists. Happy ending. Elian is now a committed Communist and supporter of the Castro regime. Bernie would be proud to have him as a son.....Anyway, I think Trump will pick Barrett. She's the best looking of the three finalists, and that's where Trump's biases tend to lie.

narciso said...

This is why i dont the 'breaking up families' seriously.

narciso said...

There is an actually a law the cuban adjustment act that the clintons blatantly violated and obama abolished on his way out.

Browndog said...

Conservative Inc. tells you Barret is by far the best choice. She's pro life! She's Catholic! Choose her to own the libs!

You'd think most self-identifying conservatives are not that shallow, but apparently that's not the case.

Luckily for me I read Robert Barnes every day. He took the time to look at her record.

THREAD: #Barrett sided with the government on almost every civil rights case, every big employer case, every criminal case, while also siding with the government on the lockdowns, on uncompensated takings, on excusing First Amendment infringements & Fourth Amendment violations.

Browndog said...

"The boy belongs with his father."

Words you will hardly ever hear uttered by a female probate judge in a custody case in America.

Narayanan said...

I have heard people say Constitution is not suicide pact -

- is it license for mayhem? which is what happened with Elian

In child custody cases what is paramount?
biology (splooge / egg) or welfare of the child?
did FL child welfare do their due diligence to qualify the father as appropriate?


@ Wilbur said...As horrific as Castro's regime was/is, the boy belonged with his father.

are you saying horror wont stop you from further mischief? in another persons life?

Narayanan said...

Has anyone outed those uniformed thugs used by Reno and Clinton?

Big Mike said...

FYI, what cost Al Gore the election was losing his home state. Had Tennessee gone for native son Gore he would not have needed Florida. So three cheers for the Volunteer State, which prevented us from having Al Gore in the White House when 9/11 happened.

Footnote: the person George W. Bush had placed in charge of winning Florida for him was that fantastically skilled politician, his brother Jeb.

J. Farmer said...

The Elian Gonzalez case was most amusing in the way it had so many conservatives talking like bleeding heart liberals. "Thank about the children!" The real culprit was granting special status and protection to Cubans who happened to reach US territory. This only incentivized people to make very dangerous efforts to reach the US by water. This country apparently learned nothing from Mariel boatlift fiasco. But that's what happens when you outsource your Cuba policy to a bunch of Cuban refugees in South Florida.

Big Mike said...

@Browndog, so what does Robert Barnes have to say about Allison Jones Rushing? At 38 is she just too young? Interestingly, she clerked for Gorsuch (pre-SCOTUS) and Thomas.

Browndog said...

Puerto Rican population in metro Orlando dips back to pre-Hurricane Maria levels

-Orlando Sentinel

If true, which is a crap shoot with today's media, that's good news for Trump, and more importantly, the country.

Wanna be marxists don't mix well with the 'been there, done that, no thanks' Cuban-Americans.

Known Unknown said...

"Pro-choice people are already asserting that a religious group she is in, People of Praise, was the inspiration for Margaret Atwood and The Handmaid's Tale. So if she's the nominee, expect to see a lot of crazy protests."

This isn't true. Newsweek (or Time?) conflated People of Praise with People of Hope. They've already issued a correction no one will see.

Tina Trent said...

Qwinn: that is great news. I moved back to Georgia from Florida after the 2012 election, and back then the people with whom I met, including one of the BoP fighters who, being a teenager at the time, was released back to the U.S. immediately, were pessimistic about the younger generations.

Greg The Class Traitor said...

Bringing the subject back up might not hurt Joe Biden, however, and stories about little children facing U.S. Immigration officials could backfire on Donald Trump.


Or it could nail the Democrats to the wall. "Yeah, you care so much about kids coming to America! unless they're trying to escape a Communist hellhole, then you want to send them back!"

Greg The Class Traitor said...

@ Wilbur said...As horrific as Castro's regime was/is, the boy belonged with his father.


You are a sick and evil person. No one who's not a leftist pro-communist deserves to be in a Communist country.

rcocean said...

I've heard Kushner is pushing her, which makes me be against her. the Conservative pundits are TERRIBLE on SCOTUS judges. They don't seem to know anything about the judges and just stupidly cheerlead every choice. If it was up to Hugh Hewitt we could have gotten Harriet Miers. George Will and Buckley thought Souter was GREAT. And all of them except Coulter, were banging the drum for Roberts.

Here's an idea, why not find a judge with a long paper trial of being conservative. Who's known to everyone as being a rock-ribbed conservative outside of work, and nominate them. And then fight like hell. Quit with the guessing games.

Michael K said...

But that's what happens when you outsource your Cuba policy to a bunch of Cuban refugees in South Florida.

Actually, Castro was running our Cuba policy from the 1980s until 2001.

In a May 6, 2002, interview with CBS News, former Undersecretary of State John Bolton stated that an official 1998 US government report with significant contributions by Montes concluded that Cuba did not represent a significant military threat to the United States or the region. Bolton alleged that it was not possible to exclude the possibility that the administration of President Bill Clinton may have overlooked Cuba as a potential threat because of Montes' influence and the way she shaped reporting at the DIA.[10]

wishfulthinking said...

Bringing the subject back up might not hurt Joe Biden, however, and stories about little children facing U.S. Immigration officials could backfire on Donald Trump



Where might this not hurt Biden? In Miami and in Florida overall it will just stoke the anger against the Democrats to a fever pitch. Cuban Americans are not just living in Miami but all over Florida now.

bagoh20 said...

All I know for sure is that whoever Trump picks, they will become the worst woman ever.

Isn't it a bit unseemly that only women are eligible. Imagine if the court was mostly women. Would men be given the same exclusive right to the next seat? I think there should be women on the court, otherwise the law would be too sensible for many to follow.

friscoda said...

Even Laurence Tribe thought that the seizure of Elian was inappropriate and an abuse.

https://www.nytimes.com/2000/04/25/opinion/justice-taken-too-far.html

For those who would return Elian to his father, the local aid and social workers (who were very liberal nuns - not Cuban-Americans) described his father as a man acting at the point of a gun. They were horrified and gave several interviews to this effect.

But Janet Reno never met a Cuban-American that she did not want to screw over. I grew up down there and Kamala Harris is a piker compared to the stuff that Reno did (see Grant Snowden, Waco), bad county prosecutor, worse Atty General. Not a good person and no friend of the Constitution. (See Project Carnivore)

Remember they only spout liberal pieties, they don't really believe them.

curiousDave said...

Why will there be a hearing? They aren't required and have been in common use for only about 50 years. Their main purpose seems to be trashing Republican or Conservative nominees. Se should demand out Senators do their jobs on their own time without the lure of television giving them "On Air" exposure. Straight to the floor for an up/down vote.

Browndog said...

Blogger bagoh20 said...

All I know for sure is that whoever Trump picks, they will become the worst woman ever.

Isn't it a bit unseemly that only women are eligible


Seems a bit illegal to me (remember sex discrimination?), but we all have to play the rules the libs force on everyone else, and apparently we just accept it.

wade pearson said...

Janet Reno wanted another Waco. Horrible person.

J. Farmer said...

@Michael K:

Actually, Castro was running our Cuba policy from the 1980s until 2001.

Oh, please. Timmerman is a goofball. His proclamations aren't worth the paper they're printed on. Saying that US policy towards Cuba in the 80's and 90's was "run by Castro" is totally absurd. The US embargo is a failed and pointless policy. The human rights arguments for maintaining it are totally cynical.

J. Farmer said...

@Greg The Class Traitor:

You are a sick and evil person. No one who's not a leftist pro-communist deserves to be in a Communist country.

So everyone in China, Laos, Vietnam, Cuba, and North Korea should be permitted to come and stay here as refugees?

How about the autocratic police states the US generously supports, arms, and helps to maintain in power? Do people "deserve to be in" that kind of country? If you were forced to choose, where would you rather live, Cuba or Saudi Arabia?

Aggie said...

I don't think Lagoa would hurt Trump's chances at getting the vote. I think Barret is more likely to, owing to her perceived religious extremism (which is a valid concern).

I think Lagoa might make the better justice, over someone who has been methodically grooming themselves for the role. I like that she fought for Elian G. I can't see how a fighter for an individual's rights could be perceived as being damaging.

Of course Trump has more than two candidates, and a track record for being unpredictable. We'll see! I hope it's Lagoa though, and I can see where it would help cement Florida.

narciso said...

We should have settled the matter in our backyards before we ventured into vietnam afghanistan and other places.

hawkeyedjb said...

Blogger James Pawlak said...
We might remember Janet Reno's "proactive" role in the slaughter of innocents at the
Waco/Branch-Davidian massacre.

We should also remember how the press cheered - yes, literally clapped and cheered - when Bill Clinton pronounced at a press conference that the Davidians were fanatics who murdered themselves.

Fanatics, yes, but the United States government killed them.

narciso said...

The law was clear, but the clintons like dr. Strangelove had to show their cloying obeissance to the castro regime.

Greg The Class Traitor said...

curiousDave said...
Why will there be a hearing?

Because we want to give the Democrats a chance to look bad in front of the voters, a month before the election

Greg The Class Traitor said...

Blogger J. Farmer said...
How about the autocratic police states the US generously supports, arms, and helps to maintain in power? Do people "deserve to be in" that kind of country? If you were forced to choose, where would you rather live, Cuba or Saudi Arabia?

Saudi Arabia, no doubt. Especially. since you're allowed to leave SA.

So everyone in China, Laos, Vietnam, Cuba, and North Korea should be permitted to come and stay here as refugees?

Not the ones who support the Communist dictatorships, no.

But I'd cheerfully bring in most of the people from Hong Knog.


Serious, WTF? Did you do acid as a 70s hippie and permanently burn out your brain?

Rusty said...

J. Farmer said...
"The Elian Gonzalez case was most amusing in the way it had so many conservatives talking like bleeding heart liberals."
you know the difference between freedom and slavery, right?

narciso said...

I think our embrace with china, has done little good, same with roosevelt's embrace of stalin,

gahrie said...

If you were forced to choose, where would you rather live, Cuba or Saudi Arabia?

That depends. Am I a member of the House of Saud? Or a Castro?

Nichevo said...


So everyone in China, Laos, Vietnam, Cuba, and North Korea should be permitted to come and stay here as refugees?

Surely one of them could have your citizenship when you flee for Singapore?

El Gipper said...

The Elian Gonzalez controversy could have been settled quite easily with a Solomonic Proposal.

Yes, Elian's father had the right to demand the return of his son as long as he appeared on American soil in Federal Courthouse to argue his claim. US would even pick up the tab for his travel.

Castro would have refused and exposed the fact that the father was speaking under duress. This way, everyone, except Commie sympathizers, could have had their way.

I Callahan said...

So everyone in China, Laos, Vietnam, Cuba, and North Korea should be permitted to come and stay here as refugees?

So if you don't let everyone in, you should let no one in? Is that really the argument?

We're talking about ONE CHILD here. One who braved shark infested waters with his mother (who didn't survive it). We're NOT talking about everyone in every communist country. So enough of the ridiculous conflation.

mockturtle said...

El Gipper @2:15: Brilliant!

gadfly said...

Sad that we have to read dailykos to find a serious problem with Judge Logoa.

Barbara Lagoa rocketed onto the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals courtesy of McConnell's judicial juggernaut [Lagoa is, of course, a Federalist Society member.] She is a 52-year-old daughter of Cuban exiles and she was born in Miami, Florida. Not only has Trump talked about the great political advantage he could get in Florida with a Supreme Court pick, there's more quid pro quo here. Lagoa is right now considering Trump campaign chief Jason Miller's $100 million libel lawsuit against Gizmodo. The suit stems from a 2018 report on the now-defunct website Splinter that Miller slipped an abortion pill into a smoothie he gave to a woman he had gotten pregnant. The allegations arose in a custody dispute brought by another woman, Trump staffer A.G. Delgado, who had a child by Miller. Gizmodo is Splinter's parent company. A district court judge in Miami threw the suit out a year ago, Miller appealed, and now Lagoa is considering it. If she were worthy of a Supreme Court seat, she would either recuse herself from Miller's case or she would remove herself from consideration for SCOTUS. Neither, not surprisingly, has happened yet.

Jason Miller is a piece of work - well-trained by Our Leader to employ gangsterisms to have his way.

Rusty said...

gadfly said...
"Sad that we have to read dailykos to find a serious problem with Judge Logoa."
"Hey lady! I see yer problem right there!"
The 'Daily Kos'? Seriously? You get your talking points from 'The Daily Kos'. Try thinking for yourself.