September 27, 2020

"Donald J. Trump paid $750 in federal income taxes the year he won the presidency. In his first year in the White House, he paid another $750."

"He had paid no income taxes at all in 10 of the previous 15 years — largely because he reported losing much more money than he made. As the president wages a re-election campaign that polls say he is in danger of losing, his finances are under stress, beset by losses and hundreds of millions of dollars in debt coming due that he has personally guaranteed. Also hanging over him is a decade-long audit battle with the Internal Revenue Service over the legitimacy of a $72.9 million tax refund that he claimed, and received, after declaring huge losses. An adverse ruling could cost him more than $100 million.."

The NYT reports, saying that it "has obtained tax-return data extending over more than two decades for Mr. Trump and the hundreds of companies that make up his business organization, including detailed information from his first two years in office."

At his press conference today, Trump called this "totally fake news."

ADDED: From "An Editor’s Note on the Trump Tax Investigation": "Some will raise questions about publishing the president’s personal tax information. But the Supreme Court has repeatedly ruled that the First Amendment allows the press to publish newsworthy information that was legally obtained by reporters even when those in power fight to keep it hidden. That powerful principle of the First Amendment applies here."

194 comments:

rhhardin said...

Tax loss carry-forward. You only pay tax on the net.

wild chicken said...

Reform the tax code! LOL

Without all the deductions we wouldn't have an economy.



Drago said...

I am surprised that the NYT didn't push their latest hoax even further by claiming Trump only paid 750 rubles in taxes.

Almaron Dickinson said...

You mean his accountants successfully minimized his tax liability! Hey! Good work accountants - you did your job.

Ken B said...

The NYT declines to print the actual returns. Trust us they say.

Isn’t there a legal principle about relying on evidence but refusing to show it?

PWS said...

If this is true, it shows why Trump has fought to release them: it puts him in a bit of a bind. He preaches the gospel of success but these returns show that he hasn't been very successful, at least by one measure. At the same time, he was "successful" at tax avoidance, but he probably senses there is a limit to how this appeals to his base after he's skewered the elite for so long. But like everything else negative about Trump, I doubt it will move the needle because he's primed his base to not trust the MSM when it comes to bad news.

Amadeus 48 said...

Oh, Noes!

He's losing his shirt! Save him! Vote him out!

Amadeus 48 said...

But it's not October yet!

The Bergall said...

Paging Captain Louis Renault.............

Amadeus 48 said...

I bet whoever gave it to them stole it.

Tsk,tsk!

Marshall Rose said...

As a Trump voter let me say...

I
DON'T
CARE
ABOUT
THIS

I didnt vote for him because of how much money he did or didn't pay in taxes.

I'm not voting for him because his business empire has or hasn't suffered loses. His accountants do his taxes, not him. It isnt like he fills out a 1040EZ at his kitchen table.

I'm voting for him because he has demonstrated that he puts America first in all of his actions.

His opponent puts his political party power first and skims millions of international graft for his family.

Just like the Clintons.

Trump is a true patriot and deserves a second term to keep up the work he started in order to keep America Strong.

Mikey NTH said...

That is what having very good, very well-paid tax accountants and lawyers can get you. Ask Warren Buffet, he'll say the same.

Gk1 said...

Imagine how many months the NYtimes was sitting on this nothing burger. That's the best they got? No 1099's from Putin? No receipts for Michael Cohen's flight to Prague?

It's what many tax attorneys and ex IRS officials have been saying from day 1, that there would be no "smoking gun" from Trump's income tax filings. Because they were all prepared by armies of tax attorneys no one will really understand them other than other tax attorneys who understand arcane tax laws and deductions. Dumb fuck liberal writers have no hope of parsing them so they will just make up lies like they always do.

Nonapod said...

information that was legally obtained

I thought it was illegal to publish personal tax records without consent in this country. Guess I was wrong.

Mark said...

Expect lots of overnight rage tweets from the Donald.

This is going to be a fun debate.

Dave Begley said...

Did the NYT get the actual returns? Or something else? And how did they get the info?

Trump has depreciation expense because he is in the real estate business. That shelters income. And, if in fact he lost money, he doesn't owe taxes. Furthermore, losses can be carried forward and, I think, backwards.

Biden and the Fake News, of course, understand nothing of this.

The Left is going nuts comparing Trump to Al Capone. Idiots.

eddie willers said...

I'll be nice.

Horse Patootie.

Dave Begley said...

The crime of tax evasion requires mens rea and usually involves not declaring income. Trump declared his gross revenues but he had tax expenses and credits to offset against his income.

Warren Buffett's BRK got a $1 billion federal tax credit for building windmills in Iowa. But that doesn't make BRK a tax evader.

David in Cal said...

Who should I disbelieve more: the NYT or Trump?

Tyrone Slothrop said...

Do the editors of the New York Times pay more in taxes than they are legally required to? If not, why not?

CharlieL said...

Would like to know how it was "legally obtained" since the President's tax returns being available to a grand jury is currently under litigation.

Francisco D said...

The Dems are doing a full court press. It's not even October yet.

Did Trump get kickbacks of US dollars from foreign entities? No That was Biden. And Clinton.

Did Trump get bribed by foreign entities? No. That was Biden. And Clinton.

Did Trump make his money as a lifelong government employe? No That was Biden. And Clinton.

Did Trump take his earned salary as a government employee? No. That was Biden, And Clinton.

Did Trump try to pay the least amount of taxes that he could?

Yes. Don't we all?

The Drill SGT said...

I question the "legally obtained" part. Considering a bunch of regulations that preclude holders of the info from releasing it.

doctrev said...

Those COMPLETE fucking idiots. I never imagined they would try this. Not because it's so devastating to Trump- this is small ball by the standards of small ball. But now Donald Trump can:

1) Start hauling NYT reporters and IRS employees off to jail. Then deny them bail before the election.
2) Start releasing the tax information of his enemies. Speaker of the House, the McCain family, THE Rick Wilson. If it's good for the goose, the gander should get a slice.

Michael K said...

I knew some Biden voter would leak it.

Fredrick said...

That's more than Hunter Biden paid on his China Deals!

Hyphenated American said...

Someone committed a crime here. FBI needs to immediately subpoena the NYT and find out who gave them this information. If the journalists refuse, they must be arrested and sent to jail. Who gave this information? A government official? Deep state? China? Russia?

If this is allowed to stand, we lose democracy.

Freeman Hunt said...

So, our tax returns aren't confidential?

John Borell said...

Legally obtained? There is no way this was “legally” disclosed. And how much cajoling did the Times do to get it? Was there a conspiracy the Times was part of?

I’d bet yes.

Temujin said...

Is this 2008? I thought it was Romney who didn't pay any taxes for at least 10 years. Isn't this from a previous playbook?

Not that I have little trust in the word of the New York, but they've got a history with publishing "newsworthy information". Such as the Steel Dossier 'facts', the Russia Collusion 'facts', that the President said that there were great White Supremacists in Charlottesville, that Brett Kavanaugh was part of a rape train. Oh...publishing the 1619 Project was a great fact sharing, newsworthy moment.

They have a very long history of being very far left and very allergic to actual facts. As far back as Walter Duranty who, let's face it, also said that he had 'newsworthy information'.

I'd like to not have to ignore everything that comes out of the NY Times, but frankly, given their track record and their current slate of Journalists! I have no other option but to continue to ignore them.

J. Farmer said...

Oh, for fuck’s sake. Nobody gives a damn about Trump’s taxes. There is an entire industry devoted to minimizing tax liability. I’ve long believed Trump’s refusal to release his returns because of the figures on the income side. Only the most devoted (deluded?) Trump follower believes Trump is some kind of business genius. He’s a sleazy guy who built a branding empire on a mountain of debt. Being unconstrained by scruples or principles is a much more important contributor to Trump’s success than any real business acumen.

That said, Trump didn’t win because of his character. And if he wins in 2020, it won’t be because of his character. Or his taxes.

Readering said...

Trump calls all bad news fake news.

Wince said...

Biden's crutch for the debate.

But the Supreme Court has repeatedly ruled that the First Amendment allows the press to publish newsworthy information that was legally obtained by reporters even when those in power fight to keep it hidden. That powerful principle of the First Amendment applies here.

Don't they mean illegally obtained?

Expat(ish) said...

Wonder who was gonna scoop them? No way they didn’t want to late for later.

-XC

stevew said...

How much he paid is estimated, and disputed. Not in dispute is that he paid the amount he was obligated to pay; absent a ruling on the audit, of course.

Readering said...

This will be like Woodward's book and tapes: Weeks of comparing what Trump told the world about his businesses versus what he declared to the IRS. Won't matter to Trumpists, but he is playing catch up and this is not the way to catch up.

Bill, Republic of Texas said...

These progs live in such a bubble. Is this the big October surprise? The progs finally got their holy grail but no one cares about Trump's taxes.

clint said...

So... what's the story here supposed to be? That he didn't pay taxes, which sounds shady (but isn't)? That he is being audited (which he told us himself)? Or is it just to paint a picture of a failing businessman (which might not be accurate)?

Also, how does one "legally obtain" someone else's tax records?

Drago said...

Scott Adams sums it up well:

Scott Adams@ScottAdamsSays

"What matters: Cash flow [which includes depreciation], ability to service debt, obeying the law. What doesn’t matter: Paper losses, loans coming due, no taxes paid."

Mary Beth said...

I am kind of tired of the whole "we want the benefit of making the attack without the responsibility of showing evidence" nonsense. What is it about the tax reports they have that would give away the leaker?

Pete said...

Information "legally obtained by reporters."

That's not possible. It's a Federal crime to disclose private Federal tax information. without authorization or permission. That goes for the IRS, employees of the IRS, and everyone else in possession of unauthorized tax data. (I'm a CPA and former IRS.)

Everyone practices tax avoidance - the filing status you choose, the business tax deductions you claim, the itemized deductions you take, the credits you claim, all are tax avoidance activity.

John henry said...

I wonder if they'll share the returns with us?

My wife likes to watch msnbc and I've been hearing it in the background while I work on my laptop.

What a bunch of nonsense.

TRUMP DEDUCTED COST OF HAIRCUTS WHILE ON THE APPRENTICE!!!

I wonder how many of thes prestitutes have their and makeup paid by their employer? Do the claim it as income and pay taxes on it? If they pay for it themselves, do they deduct it?

Why should Trump, as star of the apprentice be different?

They say he lied about the $9bn he claims to be worth. Funny how nobody, in more than 5 years has asked FEC to look into whether he perjured himself on his candidate financial statement.

This is mainly to avoid having to talk about ACB.

Unless they want to talk about something illegal or fraudulent, they should STFU. He seems to have paid what he owed.

Should any taxpayer be expected to do more?

John Henry

Nick said...

How very convenient that the SDNY subpoenaed the records and then leaks them right before the election with no further context.

Another day, another Deep State hit job.

Earnest Prole said...

Tell me more about "legally obtained." But even if it's illegally obtained, I believe there is no pre-publication legal remedy.

PB said...

Gee, I wonder where they got that information? a local NY prosecutor subpoenaing his financial records, but required to keep them secret?

PB said...

If information is not legally disclosed, it cannot be legally obtained.

YoungHegelian said...

But the Supreme Court has repeatedly ruled that the First Amendment allows the press to publish newsworthy information that was legally obtained by reporters even when those in power fight to keep it hidden. That powerful principle of the First Amendment applies here.

Oh, bullshit! Too bad the NYT never has this much energy to investigate the Clinton Fund or where all the millions to BLM is going. This is another example of setting awful precedent under the guise of everything goes because of Orange Man Bad.

If Trump wants to release his taxes, that's his business. If he doesn't, then the voters can decide if that's important to them. But, the IRS, like the priest in confessional, takes a vow of silence on the information given to it. If the IRS has issues with Trump or his corporation, they can fight it out in private using the standard methods.

So what now IRS? Does this mean if the IRS doesn't like your politics they're going to release your private info to the world? Lots of corporations have information in their tax returns that can put them at competitive disadvantage if revealed. Can they sue the IRS for damages, damages that the American taxpayer must pick up?

I hope Trump & his corporation sues the IRS & the NYT. If I was on the jury as a citizen & a business owner, I'd support the death penalty for the whole lot of them, preferably in public.

Assistant Village Idiot said...

I thought the problem was that he was going to use the presidency to make money in corrupt ways. Huh.

Is he actually not such a great businessman and loses money? Yeah, we knew that in 2016.

Now let's look at Hunter Biden. Elections are between two candidates, not between a candidate and a Platonic Ideal.

Unknown said...

Good. He paid as little in tax as possible. Isn't that everyone's goal?

Kevin said...

Also hanging over him is a decade-long audit battle with the Internal Revenue Service over the legitimacy of a $72.9 million tax refund that he claimed, and received, after declaring huge losses.

Then he must have paid more than that in order to claim said "refund".

Browndog said...

Was there a crime committed?

Who wrote the tax code?

How much did Amazon pay?

How much did Pelosi pay?

Same shit, different day.

Joe Smith said...

Any government employee who leaks any private record should be prosecuted and jailed, loss of pension, etc.

Any 'journalist' that publishes private records should be prosecuted and jailed, with their employer held liable for damages.

Now...Trump did not write the tax laws, but he is taking fair advantage of them.

The people (mostly the press) that will complain about this have never risked a single dollar in business.

Trump is the man in the arena. Call him a failure for his bankruptcies if you wish...but he is trying to build things.

'Journalists' are no better than whores.

Yancey Ward said...

To get a personal income tax liability, you have to actually have a personal income net of deductions. I haven't paid a single penny in income taxes in the 11 years since my retirement, and I have doubled my assets in the intervening time, technically being a millionaire as of this July.

Having written that, though, I suspect the NYTimes is playing fast and loose with the truth- there personal tax returns and corporate tax returns. I would be absolutely shocked if Trump takes enough personal income to get much of a personal tax bill at all, and that appears to be the case.

Scott said...

"Some will raise questions about publishing the president’s personal tax information. But the Supreme Court has repeatedly ruled that the First Amendment allows the press to publish newsworthy information that was legally obtained by reporters even when those in power fight to keep it hidden. That powerful principle of the First Amendment applies here."

Some will raise questions indeed. Rich people who are not allies with The New York Times should never consider running for office. Their private affairs will no longer be private.

Particularly offensive is their braying "tax avoidance!" while failing to compare it to "tax evasion." Avoiding taxes is not against the law. All rich people do it. The law was written expressly so they could do it. The lack of context is revolting.

But okay then. Since we need to know the extent of influence by outside interests, we demand that the tax returns of A. G. Sulzberger for the past ten years be published in their entirety. It would be far more interesting.

John henry said...

A question for the lawyers here

PDJT can't go after the NYT for printing them, I don't think. But wouldn't whoever gave the returns to the times have committed a fairly serious felony?

Or/and a serious civil tort?

Can someone explain the legal aspects here?

I predict that this turns out to be another boomerang for pdjt. Unless the is crime or fraud in the returns, I suspect it will cause some sympathy votes.

I suspect it may cause people to ask why someone like Jeff bezos can be worth $120bn yet only pay taxes on a couple hundred thousand income and nothing on the $120bn.

John Henry

Enlighten-NewJersey said...

I was under the impression that the IRS was prohibited from releasing personal tax returns. How did a Times reporter legally obtain the information? Next up Joe Biden's medical records.

tcrosse said...

If they can make Trump's taxes public, they can make mine or yours public. No thank you.

Spiros Pappas said...

$750? Seems too neat. Why not $ 749 or $ 751?

Hyphenated American said...

Looks like the irs was politicized under Obama and it continues to operate outside our laws.
The FBI needs to ask the NYT to disclose its source. If it refuses, the journalist who contacted the criminals at the irs need to be arrested and jailed.

If we don’t stop this, democracy dies.

wbfjrr2 said...

Why do you dump this garbage on us Althouse?

Qwinn said...

Trump is taking 0 salary while president. Why is he even paying federal taxes at all for 2017? Maybe tax on interest income?

Funny how privacy laws go right out the window when a Bad Orange Man needs defeating.

rcocean said...

If the NYT's thinks anyone cares, they're mistaken. No one cares about Trump's taxes. Hey Kids, Lets talk about straight-line depreciation and trump's cash flow statement!

Btw, release of IRS tax returns is a crime and an invasion of Trump's privacy. I wonder if Trump's competitor's have gotten hold of these supposedly "confidential" tax returns. does anyone believe that the NYT's wouldn't provide them to Trump enemies to hurt his businesses?

IMO, there should be a FBI investigation. But of course, that will only happen if Trump wins.

rcocean said...

If Trump paid little in taxes, that just shows he's a smart businessman. but then we already knew that.

chuck said...

It is pretty clear that someone has violated the law to provide the returns, but it was to be expected. It's unlikely Trump is surprised.

Accountants have said that, given the nature of Trump's businesses, his tax returns would likely be too arcane for untrained mortals to understand. Speaking of untrained mortals, this is the NY Times, no?

elkh1 said...

Fake news and half-fake news from fake sources.

Chennaul said...

Wish there was a neutral media entity left in this country,

From the article: § After The Times declined to provide the records, in order to protect its sources, Mr. Garten took direct issue only with the amount of taxes Mr. Trump had paid Alan Garten, a lawyer for the Trump Organization, said that “most, if not all, of the facts appear to be inaccurate” and requested the documents on which they were based. After The Times declined to provide the records, in order to protect its sources, Mr. Garten took direct issue only with the amount of taxes Mr. Trump had paid.

“Over the past decade, President Trump has paid tens of millions of dollars in personal taxes to the federal government, including paying millions in personal taxes since announcing his candidacy in 2015,” Mr. Garten said in a statement.


With the term “personal taxes,” however, Mr. Garten appears to be conflating income taxes with other federal taxes Mr. Trump has paid — Social Security, Medicare and taxes for his household employees. Mr. Garten also asserted that some of what the president owed was “paid with tax credits,” a misleading characterization of credits, which reduce a business owner’s income-tax bill as a reward for various activities, like historic preservation.

So the NYT has fairly earned a reputation for decades now of being not neutral.

Yet they pretend to be a neutral judge and jury—-while not letting anyone look at the original source material or evidence. Really? There is no way to let Americans and the defendant look at the evidence without revealing their source?

Not a lawyer but isn’t there a rule or law about evidence and discovery?

But then they are going to tell us their judgment of what the lawyer for Trump appears to be conflating. About what supposedly is in the hand of cards the NYT is holding that they will only describe to America through there vision without letting anyone else see it.

And they have had it for awhile since they say they have done so much research on it and are not done yet but promise to drip it out bit by bit until election day.

Progressively Defensive said...

I'm in the NYC real estate business on a much smaller scale than Trump. All this means is that he has been tax savvy and that he has a lot of real estate depreciation deductions. For one, the debt he has he pays interest on and is deducted from his taxable income. When he invests that borrowed money he pays no taxes on unrealized capital gains year after year. As far as the depreciation deductions, they also lower the tax base in his real estate so which will increase the capital gains tax he pays if he sells the property.

What I'm saying is that if he does pay low taxes today it's because he is SMARTLY deferring tax payments to the future. Meanwhile he makes money on those deferred taxes in the marketplace.

Forbes still has him at $5B I believe.

Lance said...

How does the NYT "legally" obtain someone else's tax records without their permission?

Progressively Defensive said...

One point. NYT will say they obtained the tax returns legally - maybe someone dropped them off anonnymously. But knowingly possessing stolen goods is illegal. The NYT should have turned them over to the cops BEFORE reading them and writing the article.

Dad29 said...

So if it's "legally obtained" why does the NYT state that the leakers leaked "at great personal risk"? Can the NYT 'legally obtain' that which was illegally leaked?

Jupiter said...

Wow! That's interesting news! I mean, -- Oh wait. It was in the Times? I see.

Dan in Philly said...

People who don't understand tax law love to complain when high income individuals are corporations don't pay taxes in this year are that. they don't understand that people who live in high risk worlds may make $2 million one year, lose a million in the next, lose 3 million, then make another million. If you've lost more money than you've gained, you get to carry over those losses with certain restrictions. So that final year when you made a million dollars you get to offset your prior years loss against that money. that means you didn't pay any tax at all the year you made a million dollars, which certain unscrupulous politicians and newspaper men may interpret as being unfair.

As far as the veracity of the leaks, I have to admit I don't give one flip about Donald Trump's taxes.

Jersey Fled said...

How could his tax returns be legally obtained?

Big Mike said...

They were forced to spring their October surprise in September. Internal polling must really suck.

Democrats wrote the tax loopholes Trump uses. They would be glad to see him using those loopholes if Trump was still a Democrat in good standing.

tim maguire said...

I'm sure it's legal for the Times to publish it, but I question the news value. And it undermines the right of filers to have their tax information kept secret. Someone broke the law, even if not the Times.

Owen said...

I am not an expert on tax law; let alone on tax law as applied to any given taxpayer; let alone as applied to a taxpayer who has an extremely complicated economic life; let alone any taxpayer whose complicated economic life involves many billions of $$$$ and hundreds of corporate vehicles.

That said, I question whether the New York Times has any better grasp of such matters, and I do wonder whether the New York Times is interested in doing an honest and competent job about this very interesting and complicated material.

How can any of us second-guess these claims by the NYT? Unless we can do so, what are they worth?

MeatPopscicle1234 said...

1. Who gives a shit?
2. I call #FakeNews also...
3. Classic Dem election year October surprise hit-piece (notice they don't actually release the records they claim they have so people can verify for themselves...)

I love the smell of Democrat desperation in the morning!

GRW3 said...

Nobody voting for Trump cares. If there was actually anything wrong with his tax returns the Obama loving IRS would have let it out.

wildswan said...


They're coming after us and they only attack Trump because he's between us and the hyenas.

Amichel said...

They had access to 20 years of Trump's tax information, and this is the worst they found? Pathetic. This story will be out of the 'news' in 48 hours.

Narayanan said...

Good on yer mate.
Now do Burisma

todd galle said...

Great, now do Biden, NYT/

Amadeus 48 said...

No Russia. No illegalities. Business ups and downs.

Some are so sad.

Bay Area Guy said...

The NYT is stupid. Nobody cares about DJT''s taxes. We care about his policies as President for the past 4 years.

CHMCM said...

Were the tax returns legally obtained?

Megthered said...

October surprise a few weeks early? Clearly they are out of ideas about how to stop Trump. They just can't figure hom out.

MikeD said...

A lawyer for the President said: “Over the past decade, President Trump has paid tens of millions of dollars in personal taxes to the federal government, including paying millions in personal taxes since announcing his candidacy in 2015.”

The New York Times failed to include the details of the returns in its reporting, admitting in its own article: “The Times declined to provide the records, in order to protect its sources.”

AlbertAnonymous said...

Who cares? He should pay as little in taxes as possible. Isn’t that what we all do?

Play within the rules, but tax avoidance is legal.

Money Manger said...

I’m not surprised. He probably has no W-2 income. He gives away his $400,000 salary for being president. This leaves him with only capital gains and losses. No good real estate operator ends a tax year with capital gains. However I would think he would at least have some minimal personal interest or dividend income. Those are tough to offset.

Mark said...

the First Amendment allows the press to publish newsworthy information that was legally obtained by reporters even when those in power fight to keep it hidden

First -- it is highly doubtful the information was "legally obtained."

Second -- the First Amendment does not extend to invasions of privacy.

BADuBois said...

A) It's stolen info from the IRS. Somebody needs to go to jail.

B) All the Smart Ones™ told us that his tax returns would show money connected to Russian oligarchs...

*cricket-cricket*

I guess that theory is no longer operative, eh?

minnesota farm guy said...

One would question whether these returns were "legally" obtained. Be interesting to find out where they came from.

Real estate is one of the great tax shelters available. It is all about cash flow and how to keep the tax man away from it. I seriously doubt the any of the NYT reporters understood anything they were looking at, not that they cared. The Times , of course, has been holding this to do maximum damage closest to the election. I suspect that the Dem Senators at Barrett's hearings will bury anything as boring as financial reporting.

As many have pointed out there will be continuing bits like this through the next month. I doubt it will have much effect on the enthusiasm of Trump supporters.

Mark said...

Third -- since the President has given away his entire presidential salary to charity, taking not even one dime for himself, he isn't going to be paying much in taxes on that income.

Matt said...

And if he hadn't had the temerity to beat Hillary, absolutely no one would care.

Maybe now the NYT can find Obama's transcripts.

Narayanan said...

5,000 - 5,050 503 503 503 503
5,050 - 5,100 508 508 508 508

with taxable income of around 5,000 - the first family qualified for EARNED INCOME CREDIT.

Welfare family living in the White House >>> what a country!

mccullough said...

We don’t know The NY Times obtained Trump’s tax information, much less legally.

Trump is not trustworthy. Neither is The NY Times.

Unknown said...

I am shocked. Now I must vote for Biden.Not.

rhhardin said...

So long as the IRS didn't release the information it's okay. Trump may have a lawsuit against his accounting firm though, if that's where the leak was.

The IRS can't release it under a constitutional provision against self-incrmination. They require you to report your illegal income, but then can't share it with other agencies.

rehajm said...

There's nothing from NYT to examine? A lengthy essay where if there's anything factual the NYT only has a beef with the US tax code...
This for anyone who understand the tax code, which is pretty much everyone. It will only reflect the feelings of the reader...

boatbuilder said...

I was led to believe that "The Russians" were funneling all sorts of cash to Trump. How could he possibly be losing money? And why would he pay any taxes if he's losing millions of dollars? Under what circumstances does a guy who is either making millions or losing millions pay $750?

This makes no sense. Except as BS.

Bill Crawford said...

Funny but this makes me feel sympathy for the president.

Drago said...

In other bad news for our lefties, there is no russian money or illegal shenanigans with Trumps taxes.

Which is very strange because readering assured us all that if only we could see Trumps taxes we would see all the russian cash transfers and money laundering and crimes.....and yet.....nothing.

Oh well. Not to worry. If Schiff-ty "investigates" he can simply type up a few "new" tax forms showing malfeasance andread it into the Congressional record!

So all is not lost readering!

Balfegor said...

How was it legally obtained? Isn't it illegal for the IRS to disclose individuals' returns? Or is this another "John Barron" special timed to ensure it hits early enough to avoid an "October surprise" and put to rest the dumb conspiracy theory that if Mueller had only looked at his tax returns the Russian collusion was all right there?

R C Belaire said...

How does one legally obtain personal tax records? I must be missing something, not having access to the NYT article itself.

wild chicken said...

"He paid less tac than I did" will be the takeaway here. People are clueless.

I wish they'd blow away the tax breaks that incentivize the building of all the superfluous hotels, student housing, restaurants, chain stores, etc that blight our towns now.

Irs not sustainable!


Rob C said...

So under what scenario can the New York Times claim that they obtained this information legally?

Greg Hlatky said...

"Anyone may so arrange his affairs that his taxes shall be as low as possible; he is not bound to choose that pattern which will best pay the Treasury; there is not even a patriotic duty to increase one's taxes." - Judge Learned Hand, Gregory v. Helvering

"The legal right of a taxpayer to decrease the amount of what otherwise would be his taxes, or altogether avoid them, by means which the law permits, cannot be doubted." - Justice George Sutherland, Gregory v. Helvering

rehajm said...

Since not even NYT is claiming anything illegal I can't tell if they want me to conclude Trump is a terrible businessman or a savvy businessman...

Rabel said...

“The Times declined to provide the [income tax] records, in order to protect its sources.”

The Supreme Court has given them the right to publish information criminally given to them if unsolicited, but do they have a right to withhold that information if subpoenaed by the DOJ in a search for the criminal?

I don't think so. The leaker may be in a bind if the actual copies are incriminating.

Also, they got nuttin on him.

Rabel said...

“The Times declined to provide the [income tax] records, in order to protect its sources.”

The Supreme Court has given them the right to publish information criminally given to them if unsolicited, but do they have a right to withhold that information if subpoenaed by the DOJ in a search for the criminal?

I don't think so. The leaker may be in a bind if the actual copies are incriminating.

Also, they got nuttin on him.

lane ranger said...

We don't care.

Readering said...

Remember, this is just the start.

Readering said...

If Trump believed no one cared he would have taken the hit and released his taxes.

DEEBEE said...

Since Trump did not win in 2016, all October Surprise still are supposed to be potent. YAWN!

Readering said...

Funniest take is that this will generate sympathy for Trump.

Amadeus 48 said...

I think "legally obtained" means they weren't stolen by someone who works for NYT. They were stolen by someone else and given to NYT, which is publishing this story, which pretty much clears Trump by the way, as a matter of public interest. See New York Times Co. v. United States, 403 U.S. 713 (1971).

The people's right to know, etc. I don't really see that this applies to the federal tax returns of individuals, but it is nice to know that Trump complied with the law.

Another argument against Trump shot to ribbons!

Rob said...

After laboring mightily, the New York Times couldn't manage to find anything more than that Trump used tax loss carryforward, accelerated depreciation and charitable contributions to net out his taxes, as anyone with decent tax advisors would have done. Now do the Sulzbergers and Jeff Bezos.

bagoh20 said...

During the same period, I have paid millions in taxes, and believe me, I have no doubt that I would have spent it much better than the government did. I would have hired more people, created more jobs, and paid my people more, but I have no problem with Trump or anyone else paying less or nothing if that's what the law permits. And everyone would do the same thing, because it's the law, and it's your money. I have yet to hear of a leftist or anyone else decrying the tax system and sending in extra money to the federal government when they don't have to. If you keep as much as you legally can, and then bitch about this, then you are just a hypocrite. If you make charitable donations and claim them, then you are a hypocrite too. You don't have to claim them.

Joe Smith said...

"Won't matter to Trumpists, but he is playing catch up and this is not the way to catch up."

I'm not a 'Trumpist,' but it does seem that Bidenists (aka cocksuckers) seem to care a lot about this.

Why can't they mind their own business?

Browndog said...

I just caught up on my reading and didn't realize this was a...

BOMBSHELL!

I hope everyone that thinks so loses sleep over it tonight-

You got him this time! Zzzzz.

roesch/voltaire said...

Well everybody knows Trump is a terrible businessman kept afloat by questionable bank loans, he is king of the bankrupt. Now as folks dig dipper we shall see what role the Russian money plays in this picture.

Chennaul said...

Thinking of your own tax returns if the NYT published them how would that reveal the NYT’s source?

It just seems like they are hiding behind this journalism “ethic” to be unethical.

We have a system of law where those making the accusation have to provide the evidence. Somehow the NYT hides around their own supposed ethical code to do a trial in the Court of Public Opinion.

You cannot bluff in court and demand that someone prove they are innocent.

Yet didn’t the Democrats and media just recently try to bluff their way to the top with Impeachment? (Maybe that is what RBG meant be install.)

It took Chris Rock to point out that the Democrats did this Impeachment Bluff during the onset of a pandemic.

Gordon Scott said...

It's not hard to figure out where the NYT got the tax records. President Trump has to give the State of New York a copy of his federal returns when he files his New York state return. Cuomo said quite a while ago he wanted to give Manhattan DA Vance and the SDNY US Attorney Trump's records. I'm sure copies were made, and a copy found its way to the Times.

The IRS is probably blameless.

Michael K said...

Won't matter to Trumpists, but he is playing catch up and this is not the way to catch up.

Are you kidding ? He is being battered every day by lies by your team. I don;'t see any evidence it is hurting him. You have enough to worry about with Biden Tuesday night. Talk about high wire acts.

ga6 said...

Now how about C Wray's returns? NYT have balls enough to try that?

Big Mike said...

I thought it was illegal to publish personal tax records without consent in this country. Guess I was wrong.

Guess we all were.

bagoh20 said...

Would you vote for an executive to run a financial interest of yours if he failed to legally avoid millions in taxes, i.e., threw away your money?

You might assume he has dementia, but I think you would want him fired regardless.

MountainMan said...

I am sort of with Scott Adams. I don't care about anyone's tax return, that is pretty useless information. I would rather see an estimate of net worth, listing in detail all assets and liabilities; and a cash flow statement showing all sources of income and expenses by categories. That's it.

I would like to see the elimination of Federal income and estate taxes and repeal of the 16th Amendment. We should move to an indirect tax, like a national sales tax or VAT. I don't like giving to the Federal government my personal financial information. They can't seem to control it and keep it confidential and they, or someone else, is always looking to use it against you.

iowan2 said...

This is stupid on stiltz. The New York Times has proven, they have no interest in honest reporting. No reason to believe this. No reason to try to reach any conclusions. Find 6 top notch tax law firms, and have them reach a conclusion. All six would be wildly diverse. Because there is nothing in the tax code that cant be twisted.
I still call the NYY liars. Prove me wrong

MD Greene said...

Meanwhile, not a word about Hunter Biden's apparent failure to pay $450,000 in taxes owed.

It's so craven and in the tank that it discredits a formerly august news organization's reputation for speaking the truth.

Is electing a potted plant like Joe Biden really worth squandering your reputation?

bagoh20 said...

As Wild Chicken alludes to right at the top, these deductions are there for a reason. That reason is that taxes are so bad for the economy and investment that we have a multitude of exemptions to try and prevent that damage. Biden promises to raise your taxes. Do you think he will touch these deductions? Of course not, but would you be ready to kill the millions of jobs if he did?

I guess that question only matters to people who actually work for a living, so that's 40% of the country who don't give a shit. Dad is going to have an uphill battle with this one.

Man With a Spoon said...

Pathetic.

NYT obtains TWENTY YEARS of this man's (personal, private) tax returns... and publishes them for all to see... and can't even find anything shady in them... 48 hours before the first Presidential debate...

And we're supposed to believe TRUMP is the bad guy. Unreal.

iowan2 said...

The man in is his 70's. He has been planning for decades a tax free revenue stream for his retirement years. There is a lot on non taxable income out there.
It's just stupid to think tax returns tell you anything about a persons financial circumstances.

tommyesq said...

So they claim to have DJT's personal returns as well as "hundreds" of Trump businesses, and they choose to tell us only what DJT the undividual paid, and then not to back it up with the actual returns. Wanna guess what number the corporations paid, and what Trump actually was paid by the corporations, as opposed to reinvesting so the value of Trump's shares raise with no tax liability so long as he didn't sell shares? Trump doesn't need cash salary, that is why he takes no pay for serving ss President.

Marcus said...

I'd like the FBI to descend on the NYTimes and question the reporters who worked on this story and ask about the origins of the possession of the tax records. And when the leftist liars refuse to respond, arrest them. And then have the judge order them to divulge the names and when they don't, hold them in jail for contempt. But it will never happen.

THEOLDMAN

But one can dream

MikeD said...

This is pretty much making the case for a flat tax system. No jury rigging to promote or denigrate beloved societal/economic outcomes.

Ken B said...

The NYT notes that the documents show no link to Russia! Hilarious, in a twisted way.

NorthOfTheOneOhOne said...

J. Farmer said...

Oh, for fuck’s sake. Nobody gives a damn about Trump’s taxes. There is an entire industry devoted to minimizing tax liability.

Hear! Hear! And I'm betting if anyone could see Biden's, Kamala's, Hillary!'s, Cuckie Schumer's, Alexandra Ocrazio-Cortez's and Fat Jerry Nadler's real taxes (not the shit they put out for public consumption) you'd be shocked at how little they've historically paid.

NYC JournoList said...

Someone in Latisha James office leaked?

John henry said...

Blogger PWS said...

these returns show that he hasn't been very successful,

By your logic, Jeff Bezos has not been very successful either, has he?

He earns about $89,000/year from Amazon and has not had a raise in 10-15 years. I can't understand why they would keep such a poor performer on. There's probably several thousand Amazon employees that make more than this poor schlub they keep as a figurehead.

Who the Hell cares how much income he makes? Income is for little people. Wealth is where it is at. Trump had plenty of that in 2015. $9bn+ according to his financial disclosure statement.

If that was fraudulent, someone would have picked up on it by now and nobody has. Seems like it would have been such a great thing to beat him over the head with and you think the demmies would not have used it?

The statement is online, about 90 pages long, you can download and look at it yourself. I did, in 2015. Very complex and I don't claim to understand it other than that he had a net worth of $9bn plus.

John Henry

Hari said...

What the NYT didn't say (and would have been trivial to find or calculate):

How much did he pay in taxes over the entire 20-years period?
What was his average tax bill per year?
What is the most he paid in taxes in any given year?

OldManRick said...

I think the NYT is parsing words and playing games with us.

the press to publish newsworthy information that was legally obtained by reporters

The records were legally obtained, given to a cut out illegally and then given to the NYT "legally" because the cutout didn't illegally leak them.

The two facts that the NYT will not release the info to Trump's lawyers to verify the info and they won't identify their source lets us know the NYT is playing loose with the facts.

mockturtle said...

Of course it's totally fake news. It's the NYT!

John henry said...

Warren Buffett, for all those years when he and Gates were back and forth for richest person, paid very little taxes. Like Bezos, he took very little compensation from the company $100,000 a year or so for a long time and let the stock value pile up.

Wealth, not income, is the important thing. In the US there are no federal taxes on wealth. (Yeah, arguably the death tax. But arguably not, too)

One of the torpedoes in the water that may circle back is that PDJT may use this to argue for a wealth tax for people like Jeff Bezos, Warren Buffet and Joe Smith who owns a $5mm farm which generates $100m income for him.

The discussion will be very interesting.

Not to worry, though. Wealth taxes are prohibited by the Constitution. We needed an amendment for an income tax. We'd need another for a wealth tax.

John Henry

John henry said...

And one more thing about wealth:

PDJT is the first president to actually tax wealth (I think) albeit indirectly. All these rich folks in high tax states like Cali, NY, Connecticut and so on are screaming bloody murder over the SALT tax.

This limits the amount of state property tax (a wealth tax but not federal) on their federal income taxes.

Joe Biden has specifically promised to eliminate this and restore the unlimited deduction for his fat cat donors.

John Henry

Limited Perspective said...

I'm interested in everyone, anyone, taking an honest look at what they receive in income from the government and what they pay in taxes. Can anyone be honest with themselves about the leeches they are?

Presidents and other politicians are ultimate leeches.

bagoh20 said...

Obvious synopsis: NYT breaks laws to show Trump didn't.

Typical Democrat morality play: illegal behavior excused and legal attacked.

When Trump gets asked about this, he might want to answer: "you mean with a cloth or something?" That seems to work even when you clearly do something illegal.


bagoh20 said...

So, did they only report the years when he didn't pay much, but ignored the years that show the opposite? That would be really bad journalism, so yea, that's probably just what they did.

Dr Weevil said...

How can you tell that this is a sleazy hit job? It's easy. It says "He had paid no income taxes at all in 10 of the previous 15 years" but doesn't tell us how much he paid in the other 5! Why? Because he paid millions, probably tens of millions, maybe even hundreds of millions in taxes in those years, which means he also paid millions (etc.) total for the 15 years.

If we knew how much he paid for those 5 years and for the whole 15, we would see that 'wild chicken' (7:38pm) is right: "'He paid less ta[x] than I did' will be the takeaway here. People are clueless." If NYT gave the true numbers, we would all be trying to estimate things like (in my case) whether what Trump pays in taxes in an average year is more or less than the total paid by the 24,000 people who live in my prosperous little town. We would know that he pays a huge amount of money, and it doesn't take a genius to figure out that the more Trump pays the less the rest of us have to pay.

John henry said...

Blogger bagoh20 said...

If you make charitable donations and claim them, then you are a hypocrite too. You don't have to claim them.

Amen, brother. Preach it!

Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.

2 Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

3 But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth:

4 That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.


Matthew 6, KJV

John Henry

The Gipper Lives said...

In addition to the billions in business the President has foregone just to serve, and the $399,999.00 yearly salary he voluntarily contributes to the Treasury, the President is also paying a Cuomo/di Blasio New York Shithole Tax.

They scribble Black Supremacist bumper sticker slogans on his street and make New York unlivable for all except parasites, empowered criminals, the mentally-ill and Democrats–but I repeat myself–while New York property owners see their assets melt away in Weimar-on-the-Hudson.

I would rather see Putin's taxes to see how he wrote off all the Clintons and Bidens he owns.

John henry said...


Blogger Ken B said...

The NYT notes that the documents show no link to Russia! Hilarious, in a twisted way.

I think I heard one of the MSNBC panelists say that this lack of a link was actually proof that there was one.

It shows a guilty conscience trying by hiding it or some such pretzel logic.

John Henry

doctrev said...

Man With a Spoon said...


And we're supposed to believe TRUMP is the bad guy. Unreal.

9/27/20, 8:29 PM

Given that the NYT is conclusively on the side of Democrats in general and Epsteinites in particular, anyone offering them sympathy is, by definition, part of their conspiracy against innocent children and the human race generally.

JAORE said...

Didn't Maddow obtain Trump tax records for a single year a few years ago? Didn't she hype it to the moon about her big reveal of Trump's tax records? Didn't the reveal actually show Trump paid millions in taxes?

Yes to all.

Wasn't the vital need to see Trump's records to show illegal activity and payoffs by the Russians?

Yes, yes it was. Was that in the NYT's story?

Nope.

Despite the NYT's characterization of every feature of the returns in the worst possible light, did they find clear violation of tax laws?

(I read/skimmed the report, but I'm confident the answer is "No".

So what we are left with is a picture twisted in every way to IMPLY wrong doing. Yet what it really shows is Trump works in a world of rapidly fluctuating valuations and other factors that influence deductions. Plus he uses the tax code aggressively to minimize the cut the IRS takes.

If he didn't he'd be a fool.

Narayanan said...

I have done 1040 with attachments for truck drivers who would show up with 1099 totaling 100s of thousands of $$.

as owner operators after working through their expenses gas room and board for living on the road while on the job - taxable income would be closer to 10,000 or less with a tax bill of may be a few hundred $.

they did not walk out feeling like millionaires.

JAORE said...

Interesting timing, no? The Times had this since 2019. Sure, October - almost - surprise. But also meat for the debate, especially to counter questions about Hunter's income.

Night said...

Is this a prelude to Biden announcing no more home loan mortgage deductions for the family home owner?

BLM burns down the nuclear family. Biden(Sanders and AOC) decide mortgage loans are white privelege.

Jamie said...

If Trump believed no one cared he would have taken the hit and released his taxes.

Ok, readering, since no one is remotely interested in what goes on behind your closed doors, I assume you have no basis to refuse an unlawful search of your home. Right?

Drago said...

roesch/voltaire: "Well everybody knows Trump is a terrible businessman kept afloat by questionable bank loans, he is king of the bankrupt. Now as folks dig dipper we shall see what role the Russian money plays in this picture."

The best r/v posts are those that are self-refuting.

Trump is a "terrible businessman kept afloat by questionable bank loans" & "he is the king of bankrupt".

Question: How does he keep getting loans if he is the king of bankrupt and a terrible businessman?

Are banks in the business of lending money to those that can't repay them?

If the answer to that question is "no", then it means Trump repays his loans.

Which makes him a good credit risk.

But if he is "the king of bankrupt" he wouldn't be able to repay his loans....which means he wouldn't be a good credit risk....which means he couldn't get more loans....

Well, I think we've fully established r/v's financial and accounting competency level, haven't we?

wholelottasplainin said...

Marcus said...
I'd like the FBI to descend on the NYTimes and question the reporters who worked on this story and ask about the origins of the possession of the tax records. And when the leftist liars refuse to respond, arrest them. And then have the judge order them to divulge the names and when they don't, hold them in jail for contempt. But it will never happen.

THEOLDMAN

But one can dream
++++++++++++++++++++++
You might find the Judith Miller case interesting:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judith_Miller

traditionalguy said...

Trumps real estate provides jobs for 50,000 who pay tax and are not on welfare. The same real estate throws off depreciation deductions. That offsets taxable income So more money goes into more business that hires more employees.

And he goes out in public with his epidermis showing too.

Bilwick said...

Am I supposed to now feel resentment?

"Trump only paid X in income taxes, while Smith and Jones paid much more in income taxes. That's awful!"--say the gang who get off on raising income taxes.

Paul said...

"that was legally obtained by reporters".... hmmm, define this 'legally' thing.

Still that suggest they want you to believe it is the real deal (and it ain't)or they could be telling the truth... that is if it's fake it is 'legally' obtained and not from the IRS (and thus illegally obtained.)

Bunkypotatohead said...

This seems like an attempt to give Biden and his henchmen moderators some ammunition for making accusations at the upcoming debate.
By Friday no one will even remember any of this, as big media will have moved on to the next of their character assassinations.

n.n said...

Trump is hitting all of the NYT-affiliated special and peculiar, foreign and domestic interests. From Obama's wars, Iran, and catastrophic anthropogenic immigration reform; to progressive prices, excess deaths, and Obamacares; to Green, China, and human rights violations; to pedophilia, gender and transgender, and social progress; to #MeToo #HerToo #SheProgressed; to 16 trimesters and in progress witch hunts, warlock trials, and protests in burn, loot, murder; to the social industrial complex, and diversity racket, not limited to racism. He's stepping on all of their toes.

Leora said...

I was thinking the tax documents might have come from a lender. Many lenders require the guarantor of loans to provide returns annually.

Mike of Snoqualmie said...

Joe Smith said:

'Journalists' are no better than whores.

That's an insult to whores. Whores give value for the money received. 'Journalists' don't.

Leora said...

My thought was that Trump didn't want to release his tax returns because he didn't want his business associates tormented. The returns would include entity information that could be used to identify his investors and partners so they too can be destroyed. I expect the additional reporting they say is coming will be along the vein of implying his business associates are doing something shady or illegal.

Paul J said...

No reason to even believe this is accurate information anyway. The NYT has no way to confirm it is accurate or genuine, and the leaker, who already is willing to commit a felony to get Trump has just as much incentive to modify the records to make them look bad for Trump. And again, NYT would have no way to tell.

It depends on the trustworthiness of both the NYT and also the trustworthiness of the leaker.

Bay Area Guy said...

When will the NYT publish Hunter Biden's tax returns? He is the Inernational Man of Mystery. He gets $$ from China, from Ukrainian energy companies and rich Muscovite Mayoral Widows! .

Jason said...

W-2 people commenting on real estate tax stories = lulz.

DEEBEE said...

Have they run out of new things to throw at Trump. This is so 2016-ish

Equipment Maintenance said...

Everyone here on this board understands the concepts of real estate losses, write-offs, legally lowering a tax bill through accepted accounting principles, etc. It's the low intelligence voter that's going to be swayed by this. And they are mostly democrats.

tim maguire said...

Blogger Lance said...How does the NYT "legally" obtain someone else's tax records without their permission?

Variations of this question appear a lot in this thread. The answer is, “legally” refers to the Times, not the person who provided Trump’s returns to the Times. Newspapers legally acquire all sorts of things that the person who gave it to them acquired illegally.

Rusty said...

Readering said...
"This will be like Woodward's book and tapes: Weeks of comparing what Trump told the world about his businesses versus what he declared to the IRS. Won't matter to Trumpists, but he is playing catch up and this is not the way to catch up."
Make absolutely sure this is the hill you want to die on. The IRS and the NYT have committed a felony. It will not be consequence free.
roesch/voltaire said...
"Well everybody knows Trump is a terrible businessman kept afloat by questionable bank loans, he is king of the bankrupt. Now as folks dig dipper we shall see what role the Russian money plays in this picture."
Not everfy body knows. just you lefty conspiracy nuts.

wendybar said...

I don't care what he paid as a private citizen under the laws written by Congress. I want to see what Nancy Pelosi and Diane Feinstein (and their husbands) paid under laws they wrote themselves. What loopholes did THEY take???

stevew said...

Is receiving stolen goods legal? Are tax returns goods? The NYT, if not its reporter, would know that the returns were not obtained legally by their source.

stlcdr said...

This is simply to feed the torch and pitchfork rubes who are clueless about the tax code and the taxes they pay.

rwnutjob said...

Returns and return information
(1) Federal employees and other persons

It shall be unlawful for any officer or employee of the United States or any person described in section 6103(n) (or an officer or employee of any such person), or any former officer or employee, willfully to disclose to any person, except as authorized in this title, any return or return information (as defined in section 6103(b)). Any violation of this paragraph shall be a felony punishable upon conviction by a fine in any amount not exceeding $5,000, or imprisonment of not more than 5 years, or both, together with the costs of prosecution, and if such offense is committed by any officer or employee of the United States, he shall, in addition to any other punishment, be dismissed from office or discharged from employment upon conviction for such offense.

Jersey Fled said...

Many of the "hundreds of companies" that make up Trumps enterprises are probably partnerships, as is typical in that industry. Which means that the NYT also illegally has the tax records of other private citizens.

They had better get ready for a brief visit from the FBI and Treasury agents.

Kevin said...

After The Times declined to provide the records, in order to protect its sources,

“The RICO Act focuses specifically on racketeering and allows the leaders of a syndicate to be tried for the crimes they ordered others to do or assisted them in doing, closing a perceived loophole that allowed a person who instructed someone else to, for example, murder, to be exempt from the trial because they did not actually commit the crime personally.”

tim in vermont said...

" was legally obtained by reporters even when those in power fight to keep it hidden. “

Meaning, even when it was illegal for people to leak them. “Those in power” make all of the laws by definition, so every crime is something that “those in power” have sought to prevent from happening.

Lawrence Person said...

The New York Times should get the benefit of the doubt that they're telling the truth for precisely nothing.

For negative news about Trump, they're much less credible than that. The default position for any negative Trump story in the New York times is that they're they're lying, especially when based on "anonymous sources."

Todd said...

Joe Smith said...

'Journalists' are no better than whores.

9/27/20, 6:42 PM


Sorry but I must take exception to that! Whores come by their money honestly. Both buyer and seller know what they are getting and if the customer is not happy with the resulting exchange they are free to go elsewhere in the future. Your average whore is FAR more honorable than the majority of journalists.

Joe Smith said...

@Todd...

Yes, I forgot to add the disclaimer that usually whores are more honest.

Annie said...

"Legally obtained" would be if Trump disclosed the information to the media, himself. Pretty sure he didn't do that which means it wasn't legally obtained, if true. Also, if true, he did nothing illegal himself and has admitted in '16 that he took full advantage of the tax code and would be a fool not to.

Tax evasion is illegal. Tax avoidance is an art. And more power to those who figure out how to keep more of their own money and out of the hands of the crooks in D.C..

DINKY DAU 45 said...

Find out what foreign entities he owes millions of dollars to and that will clear up.his allegiance to the 3rd world despots. Very simple

Michael K said...

Blogger Equipment Maintenance said...
Everyone here on this board understands the concepts of real estate losses, write-offs, legally lowering a tax bill through accepted accounting principles, etc. It's the low intelligence voter that's going to be swayed by this. And they are mostly democrats.


Yes, you can see it happening right here right now. Howard, R/V. Freder hasn't weighed in yet. I was never a good real estate investor but I did have two framed letters from the IRS. One said I owed $100k in additional taxes. The other, after my accountant was finished with them, said "Additional tax owed $0." I had them framed side by side for years.

Jim at said...

If Trump believed no one cared he would have taken the hit and released his taxes.

Their not his taxes, jackass. It's his business. And his competition would love to have a look at them.

Release your fucking taxes. Let us look at them.

Narayanan said...

tim maguire said...
Blogger Lance said...How does the NYT "legally" obtain someone else's tax records without their permission?

Variations of this question appear a lot in this thread. The answer is, “legally” refers to the Times, not the person who provided Trump’s returns to the Times. Newspapers legally acquire all sorts of things that the person who gave it to them acquired illegally.
---------------==============
Have you seen blog title "ABOVE THE LAW"

media who are the ones really and factually ABOVE THE LAW may be should sue for trademark/copywrite infringement

rsbsail said...

Did the New York Times mention that Trump has refused the $400,000/yr salary as president? I would argue he paid $400,750 in taxes.

rsbsail said...

Did the New York Times mention that Trump has refused the $400,000/yr salary as president? I would argue he paid $400,750 in taxes.

hstad said...

9/27/20, 11:17 PM
Blogger Paul J said...
"...No reason to even believe this is accurate information anyway. The NYT has no way to confirm it is accurate or genuine..."

So true! The tax returns which the NY Times has may not be the tax returns Mr. Trump filed! Only way to confirm that is what was filed is via IRS Form 4506T. Only banks are allowed to file for this data - that I know of. This way you avoid getting "Fraudulent Filed Tax Returns" to review for loans.

todd galle said...

Michael K,
I had something similar framed, letters to my grandparents from the Apex Silver Mine in Nevada, asking for some more money during the Depression to keep the silver flowing. Then a letter from a New York City brokerage a year or so later informing them that the stock was worthless. Lost the family farm in West Philly and my Uncle's goat cart. Then my daughter became an artist and has required the retirement of many of my historical curiosities from the walls. Plus, my wife and I usually buy something from the annual PA State Museum 'Art of the State' exhibit. I told my wife we're going to have to go with the Barnes' Museum style with what is lined against the walls and the bookshelves blocking wall space. Oh, also, the NYT tax bombshell was a dud, and Trump will defuze this tomorrow PM, providing Biden shows up, Joe I mean, not DR. Jill.