September 30, 2020

Biden tried to aggravate Trump by calling him "man" over and over.

From the transcript: The first thing Biden said as he walked out onto the stage was: "How you doing, man?" Obviously that was planned. Trump returned a more polite: "How are you doing?"

18 minutes in he said: "Will you shut up, man?" The context was that the moderator (Chris Wallace) had asked Biden whether he supported packing the Supreme Court. Biden had refused to answer this question before, as Wallace noted, and he didn't want to answer it now:
Whatever position I take on that, that’ll become the issue. The issue is the American people should speak. You should go out and vote. You’re voting now. Vote and let your Senators know strongly how you feel.
Why shouldn't Court packing be an issue that the American people would take into account as they vote?! He should make clear what Democratic control of the White House and both houses of Congress would mean so that if people do vote for the Democrats, they are saying they want Court packing. And it's not just about the Senators. It takes a statute to increase the number of seats on the Court. This answer is blatantly deceptive. Or is it clear that Biden does support Court packing and just doesn't want to take responsibility for it? Biden could be against it but know that some Democrats would hold that against him.

It's understandable that Trump interrupts here: "Are you going to pack the Court?"
Biden's answer is: "Vote now."

The second interruption is even more justified, since Biden was outrageously evasive. Trump says: "Are you going to pack the court?"

Biden's answer is: "Make sure you, in fact, let people know, your Senators."

Trump quite appropriately announces: "He doesn’t want to answer the question."

Biden comes right out and says: "I’m not going to answer the question."

Trump interprets the failure to answer: "Why wouldn’t you answer that question? You want to put a lot of new Supreme Court Justices. Radical left."

And that's where Biden says it: "Will you shut up, man?"

I thought Trump interrupted too much, but reading that in the transcript, I like all that interruption. Trump kept it up: "Listen, who is on your list, Joe? Who’s on your list?" And Chris Wallace tried to end the segment. Biden exclaimed: "This is so un-Presidential." And Trump got his substantive interpretation in neatly: "He’s going to pack the court. He is not going to give a list."

Wallace announced: "We have ended the segment." And Biden snuck in sarcasm and another insulting use of "man": "That was really a productive segment, wasn’t it? Keep yapping, man." First of all, that was yapping. And that was un-Presidential. And if the segment wasn't productive, it was because Biden would not answer the question!

So Biden addressed Trump as "man." He also spoke about him as "this man." Example: "This man is a savior of African-Americans? This man cares at all? This man’s done virtually nothing."

When someone is right next to you and you speak of him in the third person, it feels insulting, and it's quite intentionally insulting when the distancing phrase "this man" is used over and over.

130 comments:

Lucid-Ideas said...

Astonishingly disrespectful. But not shocking after 4 years.

Lucid-Ideas said...

Donald should've called him 'Bub'.

gilbar said...

You should go out and vote. You’re voting now.

That's WHY i won't tell you ANY of my positions. You'll have to elect a President, to find out what's in him

Rocketeer said...

In 2020, it's pretty egregious for Biden to assume President Trump's gender just based on the way xe looks.

PHenry said...

Biden is just trying to show his connection to the youth with his hep cat slang, man.
He's as cool as Elvis, don't you know? Just ask Corn Pop!

RBCK said...

I watched about 30 minutes. That's 30 minutes more than I have ever given any previous Presidential debate.

It was a shameful atrocity, two grown men, one a career senator, the other the country's president, acting like 12-year old boys having an argument over trivial bullshit. The only minimally positive impression I had was that Biden did not seem as mentally befogged as I had expected him to be.

We showed the world who we are. That's damage that will be hard to repair.

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...

On top of all that - Biden is a crook.

gilbar said...

Trump kept it up: "Listen, who is on your list, Joe? Who’s on your list?"
And Chris Wallace tried to end the segment.Wallace announced: "We have ended the segment


you know, Man; maybe just MAYBE, if Chris Wallace had been Doing His Job, Man; President Trump wouldn't have had to do it FOR him... Man

Lucid-Ideas said...

Symbolic totem #17,489 on how we are genuinely two different peoples now.

This is just outrageous. The country is a house divided. We have two parents in the same house who won't speak to each other while passing messages using their latchkey kids (the MSM) which like mom better because they can get away with more when she's had her daily whole box of wine before heading off to see her boyfriend.

Matt Sablan said...

Honestly, part of why I think Trump was so aggressive is that he saw from that early segment that Wallace was never, once, going to truly press Biden.

Biden turned "will you pack the court" into a "get out the vote message," and... yeah. At that point, the fix was in. Wallace was incompetent. I feel bad for him; it is not a fun job. But... at least be competent.

Churchy LaFemme: said...

The Dude abides!

hstad said...

"Biden tried to aggravate Trump by calling him "man" over and over...?" Yes you are correct, but I thought President Trump had a similar strategy against Biden and Trump's worked out much better. Cause Biden lost his cool (called him a racist, clown, etc.), looked befuddled, tired and sick. Who won? Well, a few hints: 1) Telemundo (Hispanic Network) took a snap poll 66% - 34% thought President Trump won; Liberals this morning are urging Biden to cancel next 2 debates; and rather than praising Biden for his winning debate performance, MSM this morning are calling debates - sh*tshow, shame, non - presidential. President Trump's strategy worked, especially since he debated 2 people on the stage.

Balfegor said...

Honestly, I was probably going to vote for Trump already, but Biden getting shifty and evasive on court packing seals the deal for me. There's nothing else in American public life today with the same potential to destroy our existing institutional arrangements. If it were part of an orderly negotiated transition (e.g. to term limits), that would be different, but as it stands right now, it's just a crazy leftwing freakout that Biden lacks either the courage or the brains to reject. There's no "return to normalcy" if you pack the courts.

tim in vermont said...

"Why shouldn't Court packing be an issue that the American people would take into account as they vote?”

Because he is lying to half the people he wants to vote for him. Say what you will about Trump, he isn’t selling one thing to half the people he is after, and something contradictory to the other half. Biden wants to be seen as moderate, and he wants to be seen as a radical. So of course he won’t answer the question.

I hope Trump asks him about fracking and gets the same kind of non answer.

Jim Gust said...

Trump really did win last night, didn't he?

I didn't realize it at the time, but it is becoming more and more clear that despite the irritation I felt, Trump achieved the main goals.

tim in vermont said...

Not very presidential of Biden.

PM said...

Biden calls everyone man - it's a hippie thing.

Birkel said...

The Left believes BAMN.
And the A means Any.
They are explicit.

tim in vermont said...

When you see that Spanish speaking people scored the debate decisively for Trump, it makes you wonder if Trump shouldn’t talk to the interpreters for some hints on how to better present his points.

ConradBibby said...

And where was the follow-up from Wallace on the court-packing question? He pressed Trump 2-3 times (IIRC) on a climate change, which Trump is on record having addressed probably dozens of times at least. Court-packing is a far more important question right now and we still don't know Biden's position because he flatly refused to answer.

Mikey NTH said...

Trump has been called thin-skinned since at least 2015, and there have been many observers that have come up with the - to them - brilliant idea of needling Trump until he loses his cool. I have yet to see that happen. Instead I see Trump being the one to do the needling until the other guy gets angry.

If Trump were a superhero he would be The Aggravateter.

Tyrone Slothrop said...

There's no other way to interpret Biden's evasion than that he does intend to pack the court. In fact, Democrats are transfixed with the idea, in line with promiscuous voting, disposing of the electoral college and ending the filibuster.

For me, packing the court is a red line, beyond which I will be ready to join a hot civil war. The nation has survived this long because political partisans have always been willing to look to the future with faith that the process will bear them out. Democrats, abdicating this noble tradition, are clearly intent on knocking over the chess board because they're losing. God forbid that they should now be handed the reins.

tim maguire said...

I thought Trump interrupted too much, but reading that in the transcript, I like all that interruption.

I take it what you're saying is that Trump wouldn't have to interrupt so much if Wallace was a better moderator. And given much of the spinning today, Trump maybe comes off looking a bit worse for having had to do Wallace's job for him.

Craig said...

I just want to say that I called "Shut up, man" in the comments a few days ago. "Shut up" really seems to be the Dems' main debate strategy.

However, I'll also say that I think Biden clinched the presidency last night.

Narayanan said...

is Budeb OTHERING his opponent >>> and so giving permission to his base also!

how does that not bring about violence?

Leland said...

I gave up on watching debates the previous time Chris Wallace moderated. Watching them is just an ad sell for the news channels. The transcript is far better. I just checked this transcript of last nights debate. Looking for keywords:

Immigration: Zero hits
Foreign: One hit
Abortion: Zero hits
[free] speech: Zero hits
Religion: Zero hits
Gay or Transgender: Zero hits
Lockdown: Zero hits

But hey, Climate Change: 6 hits. Which candidate was talking Climate Change before last night?
Yet
China: 13 hits, 3 times by Biden, 10 by Trump Chris Wallace didn't care at all to even ask.
Russia: 2 hits both by Trump. After 3 years of Russian collusion discussion, not one question by Wallace and Biden steered clear of it. Ukraine, an issue Trump was impeached, only came up because Trump introduced the Burisma topic. All of which came from a question from Wallace challenging Trump on creating jobs by noting Obama created more jobs.

I didn't watch, but it doesn't seem like Chris Wallace was a moderator as much a partisan.

Mary Beth said...

Biden talks like that all the time.

I liked how Trump interrupted. It's what voters liked about him in 2016, the unwillingness to put up with being pushed around. Romney let Candy Crowley "fact check" and confirm a bald-faced lie. Trump won't let them get away with that.

I wish he had done better defending things like canceling CRT training and condemning white supremacists (I didn't like how Wallace conflated them with militias, I think they are two very separate things), but I can't complain that he let them roll over him like previous candidates have done.

Dan Karipides said...

Ann--since you are analyzing the debate I am very curious on your reaction/perspective.

Previously you went as far as to say Biden should be disqualified for repeating the "fine people" lie. That lie came up again during the debate (repeated again by Biden, not clarified in any way by the "moderator" Wallace.)

What did you think of that moment?

gspencer said...

Joe's 19th C. "malarkey," his 1940s "man," "look," "here's the deal," "com'n," really, really date the guy to the record player era of bobby socks, poodle skirts, and the Friday night hop in the gym.

Psota said...

did not watch the debate, but all the highlights I've seen today - including the ones supposedly "bad" for Trump - are very unflattering to Biden.

Still his obnoxious "street brawler" act was effective against Paul Ryan, so it must work for someone.

Mike Sylwester said...

Trump cannot answer some questions effectively.

Biden will not answer some questions for political reasons.

Skeptical Voter said...

Well at least he didn't call Trump a dog faced pony soldier. So that's progress of a sort.

Earnest Prole said...

I think we can all agree that's a remarkably focused strategy for a man suffering from Alzheimers.

Achilles said...

Biden did not get any new voters last night.

Only stupid people vote for Democrats.

Sebastian said...

"Why shouldn't Court packing be an issue that the American people would take into account as they vote?!"

Well, it should be. But Biden played this right: the left will get what it wants, while nice women can tell themselves that they didn't vote for rabid leftism. We didn't know! He didn't tell us! It's terrible!

Dave Begley said...

Intellectually and linguistically, Biden never left the 60s.

I'm only surprised he didn't drag his dead first wife into the debate.

Big Mike said...

”This man’s done virtually nothing."

That man — Donald Trump — provided millions of young African-American men with paying jobs. A quarter century ago Joe Biden enacted legislation that sent tens of millions of young African-American men to prison for minor offenses. Trump cancelled out that legislation with new, bipartisan, legislation. That’s not nothin’, man.

PB said...

Biden will do whatever his handlers tell him to do.

Readering said...

Yes, Trump finally got his chance to back up his respectful diagnosis of Biden's dementia, and now watch the polls reflect that, just like they reflected the triumph of the Republican National Convention and the response to the providential death of a non-Christian Supreme Court JusLawstice. Can POTUS approval ratings go much higher? I say yes, because the commission on presidential debates has announced it will be taking remedial steps for future debates, presumably to control nasty moderators, like Chris Wallace from (checks notes) Fox News. I predict a mute button the candidates can use when the moderator gets out of hand, but maybe also a list of forbidden words, like "(proud) boy" and "man."


mccullough said...

I cut through these debates pretty quickly. It’s two old guys going at it with a third old guy taking it way too seriously.

On substance:

Trump is for opening up the economy. Biden is for shutting it down further.

Trump is for fracking and low energy prices. Biden is for raising energy prices and ruining the economy and being lauded by Europeans while China does what it wants

On police, Trump is for cracking down on riots. Biden is not bothered by riots.

On judges, Trump gives list names, nominated specific people from that list, and is against Court packing. Biden is for court packing and for not telling who his nominations would be because the public would reject them.

henge2243 said...

I think that Biden was trying to show the 'kids' that he's hip, dig.

YoungHegelian said...

When someone is right next to you and you speak of him in the third person, it feels insulting, and it's quite intentionally insulting when the distancing phrase "this man" is used over and over.

You also don't do it in public to the fucking President of the United States, no matter what you think of him personally. He won that office in an election, and he represents the Will of the American people, even those people who didn't vote for him.

This is yet another example of how the recent calls for a "return to norms" are, as our erudite hostess so quaintly puts it, civility bullshit.

~ Gordon Pasha said...

Biden's at heart a bully, He uses "man" because he's found out he can't get away with "boy".

Sally327 said...

To paraphrase Eleanor Roosevelt, no one can insult you without your consent. Trying to make the other guy angry, rattled, distracted, that's a very common tactic and Biden was hardly overwhelming with his put downs. But as with all things Democrat, he was super great, just the best, the Michael Jordan of Presidential debate trash talk.

M Jordan said...

Trump went deep into the Id of Biden and the nation. When the Superego settles down in a few days/weeks, it will be apparent Trump won that debate decisively.

rhhardin said...

This man or woman, would be correct.

dbp said...

If Romney had addressed president Obama as "man" and not Mr. President, that would have been universally portrayed as racist.

daskol said...

Best use of "man" is of course from Lebowski: well that's just your opinion, man.

memoriesofus said...

The lack of an answer on the court packing questions was the most telling and egregiously frustrating moment of the night. Given the current climate, it is clearly one of the most, if not THE most, important issue. The American people deserve to know whether Biden will support or even encourage dismantling one of the co-equal branches of government over what amounts to a temper tantrum. I’d say this issue and Biden’s threat of a national lockdown should be the primary concerns of voters, yet so little time was spent on it.

Biden’s constant unproductive interruption and blatant disrespect for the President was too much for even my 9 and 7 year old girls to handle. They watched the debate as part of their homeschool lesson for the day and could not believe the lack of decorum, especially the name-calling by Biden. He was definitely not presidential. Honestly, any mom of school-aged kids who has been stuck at home with them since March would have done a better job quelling the arguing and insults than Wallace.

bleh said...

Funny. Personally I thought it was way more insulting when he called Trump a clown, a liar and a racist. Biden says "man" after almost every sentence, usually directed at no one in particular. Hey man. C'mon man. Etc.

FullMoon said...

So Biden addressed Trump as "man." He also spoke about him as "this man." Example: "This man is a savior of African-Americans? This man cares at all? This man’s done virtually nothing."

We have seen black people acknowledge Trump helping black community.
But when rabid anti white 110% dem crazy mofo Leo Terrell became a Trump supporter
....

BTW, The Rock def considering a run in 2024.

Sprezzatura said...

It’s cool that Atlhouse has been following political stuff for a long time but only now did she notice how Biden always talks. To Althouse this was Biden’s strategy re this debate.

She’s the best eva. IMHO.

Jim at said...

I'm glad I was outside doing some end-of-season yard work during the whole thing.

minnesota farm guy said...

I did not watch the debate, but have been reading various comments on it. As the day progresses opinion seems to be coming round to Trump did okay, but could have pinned Biden down even more on some issues. The best that seems to be claimed for Biden is he made it through without drooling or fainting. He certainly would not answer difficult issue questions.

I wonder if many of the blows thatTrump landed - or even missed -whether politely or not were set ups for the next two debates.

The one thing that everyone seems to agree on is that Wallace's performance was a disgrace.

Mark said...

That's not Biden trying to aggravate Trump, man.

That's Biden's compulsive verbal tic.

The Drill SGT said...

It's very clear what the Biden and DNC strategy is.

- keep quiet till after the election and inauguration.
- if and only if they hold all three parts of the process, then and only then
- pack immediately

committing early only has a downside
- in the election, or
- with GOP Senate payback

DINKY DAU 45 said...

PROUD BOYS. STAND Down AND STAND BY...Thata not a whistle it's a bullhorn.WHITE SUPREMACY shaking the dust off.GOOD PEOPLE ON BOTH SIDES,,NO,DO BELIVE THERS A WHITE NATIONALIST PROBLEM..When someone tells you which they are. BELIVE THEM!

Michael K said...

Court-packing is a far more important question right now and we still don't know Biden's position because he flatly refused to answer.

The Green Nude Eel is far more important and Biden flat out lied. He said he does NOT support it, then recited some of the provisions. It is still on his web site as a position.

daskol said...

Biden calls everyone man - it's a hippie thing.

Nah, it's a late 50s/early 60s pre-hippy, car dude thing.

NorthOfTheOneOhOne said...

When someone is right next to you and you speak of him in the third person, it feels insulting, and it's quite intentionally insulting when the distancing phrase "this man" is used over and over.

Somebody, I can't remember who, had an interesting post recently about Biden and his habit of laughing dismissively at people who challenge him. (Remember the VP debate with Paul Ryan? How he cackled maniacally at everything Ryan said?) The theory was that it was a function of rampant narcissism that manifested when he was really triggered by something.

I noticed Biden doing the laughter thing several times last night. I can also see how referring to Trump in the third person and as "man" to his face could be the same sort of thing. I remember Biden referring to Trump as "Donald" a could of times, but can't remember if the ever referred to him as "Mr. President".

NorthOfTheOneOhOne said...

daskol said...

Nah, it's a late 50s/early 60s pre-hippy, car dude thing.

Steve Sailer opined that Biden must have learned to talk from watching Edd "Kookie" Byrnes on 77 Sunset Strip.

mikee said...

So, no drug tests, no checking ears for "hearing aids", and Joe Biden, former Senator, former Vice President, former vile "high tech lynching" leader against Clarence Thomas, acts the way he has acted for almost half a century - like an unintelligent, entitled, authoritarian twit.
Nobody is surprised. Nobody.

Add in the dementia - which did indeed raise its ugly head a few times last night - and Joe Biden is a perfect candidate to represent the Democrats. What a farce of a crock of a sham of a joke of a blivet is Biden.

mikee said...

So, no drug tests, no checking ears for "hearing aids", and Joe Biden, former Senator, former Vice President, former vile "high tech lynching" leader against Clarence Thomas, acts the way he has acted for almost half a century - like an unintelligent, entitled, authoritarian twit.
Nobody is surprised. Nobody.

Add in the dementia - which did indeed raise its ugly head a few times last night - and Joe Biden is a perfect candidate to represent the Democrats. What a farce of a crock of a sham of a joke of a blivet is Biden.

Drago said...

readering: " I say yes, because the commission on presidential debates has announced it will be taking remedial steps for future debates, presumably to control nasty moderators, like Chris Wallace from (checks notes) Fox News."

Chris Wallace vacations with George Clooney and the Fox News division, with the Murdock sons and Paul Ryan on the Board really love Trump............

The nighttime/weekend/morning opinion hosts like Trump. The rest of the day its gone the other way, as Paul Ryan's ascension to Board membership a few years back signalled clearly.

In the same way that the (checks notes) Drudge Report became a bastion of liberal thinking last year right about the time Matt Drudge sold out to leftist billionaire money.

Next thing you'll know will be readering describing how all these "conservatives" like Jen Rubin, Max Boot and Bill Kristol have turned against Trump!

Very amusing.

papper said...

Thank you Prof. Althouse for another thoughtful post.

Kevin said...

I thought Trump interrupted too much, but reading that in the transcript, I like all that interruption.

My thought last night was that the transcript was going to be much more entertaining and informative than the actual debate.

And I knew Althouse would be breaking it down for her readers.

Thanks Ann!

hstad said...

In my post at 12:38pm I gave my obviously biased opinion that President Trump won the debate.

If you don't agree with me let me point to another side of the spectrum he agrees with me.


Andrew Sullivan
@sullydish

I’ve never seen Biden seem so old or so weak. He can’t land a strong blow. He’s being successfully heckled. I want to look away.
6:49 PM · Sep 29, 2020

Trump is dominating. That’s the brutal truth. It’s painful. So far.
6:43 PM · Sep 29, 2020

Kevin said...

Next debate Trump should say that Joe probably doesn't know whether he'll be packing the Court because it's not up to him.

When Biden answers that it is up to him, Trump can say "then there's no reason not to tell us."

Kevin said...

Biden calls everyone man - it's a hippie thing.

Biden was likely on drugs, man.

Maybe a CBD bear before the show to take the edge off what they gave him to wake up.

Kevin said...

Seriously though, Biden wasn't going to call him President Trump.

It goes against the argument that Trump isn't at all Presidential.

Trump should call him "the Vice President" from here on out.

After a while they can point out Biden's incivility.

Kevin said...

Joe Biden is going to be President of all Americans.

Republicans and Democrats.

Right after he gets done packing the Supreme Court and removing the filibuster.

minnesota farm guy said...

Good question asked by Jim Treacher today; "If the Democrats won why are they talking about having no more debates?"

A corollary to that is: If the Electoral Debate Commission is so smart why are they now wanting to change the rules?" Of course what the commission needs to do is get rid of the moderators; have the parties submit questions for each other; review the questions and get rid of the most inflammatory; appoint a question reader/timekeeper/mic controller to read the questions and keep order. (There are probably 100 town clerks in NE, who have experience with town meetings, who could do a better job than Wallace or any other of the newsies.)

Readering said...

I doubt Biden has reached a position on size of Supreme Court. He witnessed 1991/92 and 1992/93 terms with White sole Democrat and 1993/94 with just RBG. But if Barrett confirmed and terrible 2020/21 term rulings, he may support it.

cacimbo said...

With Biden using the dated "man" I would have rolled if Trump responded with "ok boomer".

tcrosse said...

So next debate (if there is one) Trump needn't worry about seeming like a big old meanie for picking on Poor Old Feebleminded Joe.

TreeJoe said...

Ann: One thing I'm surprised you didn't call out Trump on was he flatly described a broken, fraudulent, and untrustworthy vote process.

He declaimed it, repeatedly.

Now I happen to agree with him that the way this is being encouraged and done is a terrible, terrible thing.

But what he didn't do is describe ANY effort on his part to mitigate and prevent fraud. He's President. This is happening. He wasn't trying to stop it, he acknowledged it already has begun. NOW WHAT.

Basically his answer is: If I'm re-elected, it's not a problem. If Joe is elected, it's fraudulent.

It's perhaps his most egregious position in 4+ years and he stated it repeatedly to possibly the largest audience since his inauguration.

Static Ping said...

It's possible that Biden was calling him "man" over and over again to try to get a reaction. It could also be that's how Biden really treats everyone but in his current condition he is not able to filter it out. In better days when he did not think anyone was listening he could be quite crude, and when he was actually campaigning as opposed to hiding in his basement he regularly acted like a jackass whenever confronted.

Or maybe in his current condition he is not good with names....

Lindsey said...

If Trump was smarter, he would have asked Biden whether he also intended to call him ‘boy’

Leland said...

More word searches through the transcript based on the GPO's Principles (issues):

Constitution: 3 hits, Trump didn't mention it and shame he didn't
Economy: 26 hits, lots of discussion
Budget: 1 hit by Biden and in a sentence which is nonsensical.
Health[care]: 25 hits.
Vet[erans]: 3 hits all by Trump
Security: 2 hits, but only as part of the title of a job
Education: 2 hits, 1 was part of the name of the debate location, and the other Biden pushing the Princeton notion of systemic racism in education.
Poverty: zero hits
Values: 1 hit by Trump
Energy: 6 hits, mostly by Biden, 2 from Trump but not really about energy production
Immigration: zero hits

That's almost enough, but if you want to see how well Wallace did portraying American's concerns, here's Gallup's ranking of top issues. Look for yourself. I already noted Health. Terror, 2nd most important, zero hits. Guns, third, zero hits.

The debate was advertisement revenue for national news outlets while discussing issues important for Democrats, err I mean far left Democrats.

Michael K said...

But when rabid anti white 110% dem crazy mofo Leo Terrell became a Trump supporter

Wow was that a change ! He had his own show for a while, as I recall.

Chennaul said...

I rewatched the thing and realized that it was the pitch of Trump’s voice that was a problem.

It was too high. Then Wallace copies that and his pitch gets too shrill.

Biden just stays low resonating while your mind tried to tune out the uncomfortable shrill New York thing or whatever—Biden is making a lot of faces. This is probably how he “wins” debates.

Then someone in another country informs me that sitting Presidents always lose the first debate.

This actually starts to make sense to me even though it takes someone in another country to tell me this.

A President is by definition is in the position of defending reality. The attacker gets to paint an impression of what could be even if it is fuzzy it is somewhat better than what the current reality might be. Also the President still has to do his job. Trump is making interesting paradigm shifts and deals in the Middle East (so is Erdogan and Qatar—and COVID might be creating a failed state situation out of Iran). Trump is navigating that, he is doing rallies leaving nothing on the table, he is taking an obviously timed bomb on his taxes with the NYT promising updates or constant water torture drips up until Election Day. He knows about Democrat court actions in Pennsylvania, and Missouri to change the legislative law and the national Election Day date and time. The Economy might need another stimulus in a timely fashion and Pelosi and Co. are dragging their feet on this for possible political gain with no media exposure.

Meanwhile his opponent Biden is the most insulated Presidential candidate in our lifetime. You feel like a crazy person or a nag if you simply want to know who his economic team would be or who his current economic advisors are.

(Remember James Carville with — it’s the economy, _______!)

What The Left is afraid of is they are facing a President and a base that fights like they always have. That mirror image is not pretty.

They are facing a base that worships a candidate and will not criticize him like they worshipped Obama.

Bit— there is a huge difference between Obama and Trump. Trump is checked by his own party, is checked by the other Party—Democrats, and checked by every comedian and late night talk show host. ( It was weird as hell that there was some unwritten rule that Obama was too perfect to even be made fun of— Kings even had court jesters.). Trump is checked by almost all media.

Finally you have Kamala Harris who has the most chance of any Vice Presidential candidate to become president in our lifetime and she is not that well scrutinized.

She is running an ad on her Twitter account about the racism she experienced as a child. She grew up in Berkeley then at 12 years old she moves to Montreal and graduates in 1981 from high school there. So most of the racism she experienced was Canadian racism—which is believable— Canada is white as ice. Then if you do some looking she doesn’t want to call Berkeley racists she says she experienced that in Palo Alto when she was driven there by her father.

Back to Trump, someone said last night here that his rallies are happy, maybe America needs that right now, and maybe as the person in the other country told me he needs to be the Happy Warrior in the debates. (The association/ or model might be Reagan but Trump’s style is democrat .). At least his convention was Reaganesque. The Democrat convention and most of their campaign is depression on ice.

Mary Beth said...

I'm only surprised he didn't drag his dead first wife into the debate.

9/30/20, 1:35 PM


He did drag his dead son into it, you know, the one he's proud of.

James Pawlak said...

President Trump IS a "MAN". Biden is the empty shell of what may have been a man.

Leora said...

I thought Trump's response the Critical Race Theory question "It's racist" *it teaches people to hate America" was pretty good given the time constraint.

Balfegor said...

Re: Proud Boys, whatever they are, they're not White supremacists. Democrats and the press claim they are, but geez -- just look at them! They have a nontrivial number of nonwhite members and leaders. It's an object lesson in why you shouldn't trust journalists/politicians/academics over the evidence of your own senses, when you hear someone smeared as "racist" or "white supremacist."

To take another example, a federal judge apparently claimed the California police gang, the Vikings, were Neo-Nazi white supremacists. Their most famous member, however, was Paul Tanaka, who is exactly as White as his name would imply (i.e. not at all). Seems to me this judge had no idea what he was talking about. But the characterization persists.

Sure the Nazis made nice with Arabs, Persians (until the 1941 surprise invasion by UK/USSR), Indians, and Japanese (and, pre-1938, Chinese) against their fellow Whites in Britain, the Soviet Union, and the USA, and Nazis famously fled to Latino South America after they lost war. Chiang's son served in the Wehrmacht; Muslims served in the Waffen-SS. So white supremacists are certainly capable of cooperating happily with other races.

But when you say "White Supremacy" or "Neo-Nazi" in the US, that doesn't mean you expect the leaders to look like Subhas Chandra Bose or the Grand Mufti. And if they do, that suggests an ideology that doesn't correspond to "White Supremacy" as commonly understood.

rcocean said...

Just one comment on the debate.

Man, is the Center-right stupid! Wallace wastes everyone's time and asks Trump to disavow white supremacy - like 1,000 reporters before him. Trump DOES, by saying "sure" "Sure" "whatever you say", and the Center-right instead of getting ANGRY AS FUCK at Wallace asking Trump the same old stupid ass "will you disavow" question that's been asked AND ANSWERED for 5 fucking years, goes into -sperg mode about how "Trump didn't answer it right", and "gave them ammunition" blah blah.

Why THE GODDAMN Fuck should Trump have to keep "disavowing" the "White supremists"? Why do you center-right DUMBOS keep thinking its a legitimate question to ask the POTUS over and over again? Why don't you ever get upset about it? If the left wins and makes the USA hell for 4 years, it'll be because the Republicans are so stupid and gutless.

rcocean said...

And Biden was a disgrace. An insulting, lying, demented, old fool. It was a disgusting performance. And just what 45% of the USA likes and admires. I got my passport ready.

Gospace said...

I see people here and elsewhere saying Biden clinched the presidency last night. As hstad said Telemundo (Hispanic Network) took a snap poll 66% - 34% thought President Trump won. I've read that in several spot, not only here.

Hillary took 65% of the Latino vote according to a quick internet check. If Trump takes 50% of that voting bloc- or they stay home- Trump wins- bigly.

Gospace said...

Well, along with the Telemundo snap poll, another indicator Trump won is the NY Post headline Google searches for ‘move to Canada’ spike after presidential debate. Gee, which side is always threatening to move to Canada if they lose?

Francisco D said...

Earnest Prole said... I think we can all agree that's a remarkably focused strategy for a man suffering from Alzheimers.

A few weeks ago, I started to rethink my position that Joe was suffering from early stage Alzheimer's. I think the symptoms are more in line with stroke-related aphasia.

Joe performed better than his incredibly low expectations because he is still capable of memorizing lines. I noticed that he responded to the questions for which he was prepared, not necessarily the questions that were asked.

His overall lassitude is probably related to stroke damage as well. His brain is a time bomb. He is likely taking a massive amount of blood thinners which can have dire effects, but I will leave that discussion too the MDs in the audience.

Birkel said...

Readering has taken the pro-hot-Civil-War-II position.
Duly noted.

daskol said...

Steve Sailer opined that Biden must have learned to talk from watching Edd "Kookie" Byrnes on 77 Sunset Strip.

Ha, that's perfect. That is clearly where Biden got his idea of cool.

Skippy Tisdale said...

How many times did Biden say, Here's the deal."? Because I knew a guy who also said that a lot. He was a drug dealer.

gadfly said...

In retaliation for all the names that Trump has called Biden, Joe could have used names that he was called by Trump such as 1% Donald, China Donald, Corrupt Donald , Crazy Donald, Sleepy Donald, Sleepy/Creepy Donald, or Slow Donald - but he chose to call our First Grifter President by his "Law & Order" identity in which Donald displays his "man/hood" personality.

Please note that our drug-wired president also chose not to use Biden's name or his former office when talking to or about our former VP. Last night Trump was manic, often fidgety, as shown in his facial expressions as his facial muscles moved uncontrollably. The "man" was weird - as one of his ex-supporters said - "like a crackhead."

None of this minutia is important simply because Trump refused to abide by the debate rules, so we all should demand that the remaining third-world debate farces be cancelled. Trump will never win a single Biden voter with this idiocy and the Trump base isn't big enough for him to win while threatening our democracy. So sorry, man!

Narayanan said...

"Biden tried to aggravate Trump by calling him "man" over and over."
+ how does "man" translate in Telemundo ? Muchacha or El Hombre

>>>> Telemundo (Hispanic Network) took a snap poll 66% - 34% thought President Trump won.

Chennaul said...

.

I looked up Patriot Prayer before supposedly Facebook took down their page after one of their guys got shot in the street in Portland.

Their leader was Asian. I did not see anything racist unless calls for meet ups are racist.

Meanwhile Antifa pages galore on Facebook.

I guess Facebook owns Instagram and celebrities did a protest for 24 hours on Instagram to force Mark Zuckerberg to shutdown “misinformation” and “hate speech” on Facebook.

So— Kim Kardashian stopped selling her underwear on Instagram for 24 hours. Mark Zuckerberg has turned into sort of a hero for free speech (how in the hell did that happen?). Of course now Kim Kardashian is on Instagram begging the case for Armenia.

I think Kim Kardashian might be guilty of hate speech on Instagram for selling g-strings, but that’s just me.

You cannot make 2020 up.

effinayright said...

TreeJoe said...

"But what he didn't do is describe ANY effort on his part to mitigate and prevent fraud. He's President. This is happening. He wasn't trying to stop it, he acknowledged it already has begun. NOW WHAT."
**************

You are apparently a LIV blissfully unaware that states control elections, not the POTUS.

Point-of-fact: numerous GOP-led organizations in the states are challenging the mail-in ballot scheme, or Dem attempts to keep polls open after election day, or allowing voters to mail in their ballots AFTER election day...or exposing vote-harvesting..

Here's but one example of the pushback:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurkee/2020/09/02/trump-campaign-montana-lawsuit-now-suing-three-states-over-mail-in-voting-expansion/#584a18e71d42

Had you rally wanted to learn the facts, you could have looked for them on line.

But...you seem to share Miss Ann's view that the POTUS should address EVERYTHING in a two-hour debate controlled by a perfidious Trump-hating moderator who controls the questions and cuts off the answers he doesn't like.

It's an impossible standard, one that provides you with "reasons" to smear Trump.




Michael K said...

so we all should demand that the remaining third-world debate farces be cancelled.

Yup, here we go. Crazies first, of course but the rest will be along soon.

By the way, 10 to 20% of "Proud Boys" are black or POC.

Another fail.

MadTownGuy said...

At least Biden didn't call Trump "that one."

"Here's the deal" was a linguistic marker for 'insert talking point here.'

madAsHell said...

Wow! I feel special.

A second unsolicited text message wanting me to volunteer for Joe Biden. OK.....they used my wife's name this time because her name is on the bill. I don't know how they found my name.

It's almost as if the telephone company sold my data.

Banjo said...

"We showed the world who we are. That's damage that will be hard to repair."

If we worry about world opinion, better to be feared than loved. Machiavelli said that and Putin continues to prove it. Ask Germany, they know.

h said...

background: fires, antifa marchers, carrying antifa signs, and other images of antifa violence.

Voiceover: Antifa is burning our cities to the ground and killing our police.

video: more images of angry antifa violence.

Voiceover: Joe Biden says antifa doesn't exist

video: Biden clip from debate saying antifa is just an idea.

Voiceover: How can Joe Biden deal with antifa when he doesn't even believe that it exists?

h said...

If Trump had his wits about him, he would have said, "Both Proud Boys and all six members of the Ku Klux Klan should stand down and go home."

Unknown said...

Pretty clever of the democrat propaganda arm, the Nytimes to run an article about taxes right before the first debate. I wonder what it will be for the next one.

Readering said...

Birkel: me for civil war over the size of the Court? I have never expressed dire feelings about the Court. I would be more in support of ending the filibuster for legislation. Most USSC decisions involve statutory interpretation. Without a filibuster Congress can more easily amend statutes when Court gives bad interpretation. But others may feel different.

roesch/voltaire said...

Trump interupted over 75 times including interrupting the moderator so what else are you suppose call a person who does this but a clown?

Steven said...

Since when have former presidents and vice-presidents been addressed by the title Mr. President and Mr. Vice-President? We only have one president and vice-president at a time. Joe Biden is not Mr. Vice-President. Use of that title was inappropriate and immediately gave away the moderator's favoritism towards Biden. There has been a tradition senators retaining that title after their retirement. Biden should have been referred to as eitehr Mr. Biden or Senator Biden.

Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...

Churchy LaFemme: said...
The Dude abides!


The Dud's aBiden !

...wait til Kamala starts saying "Mon"

Iman said...

Trump had the Mr. Burns-lookalike Biden looking frightened and disoriented for most of the debate.

Biden should thank his lucky stars that Wallace was there to prop him up and help keep him as close to on track as he ever gets anymore.

n.n said...

Man, is the Center-right stupid! Wallace wastes everyone's time and asks Trump to disavow white supremacy

The center of the political spectrum is conservative as in Pro-Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness, and do not, on principle, indulge diversity, let alone rabid diversity, including racism, sexism. That said, rabid diversity (e.g. color supremacy) is a legacy, in progress, of the left.

walter said...

gadfly,
Do you feel good squeegeeing off that Harris/Biden bumper sticker knowing Biden's family leveraged Joe's governmental power to siphon $$$ from around the world?
Come on, child.

Zach said...

I think they both had the same game plan, which you might call "Bully the bully":

Interrupt, sigh, insult, and go over time to establish dominance and throw the other guy off his game. Push him into the ropes and make the referee break up the fight.

Trump does it all the time, but Biden did it in both his Vicc Presidential debates.

It's not a bad plan if you can pull it off. A lot of liberals have wanted to shake a finger in Trump's face for four years. They want somebody who'll stand up to him.

The problem is, Biden didn't really stand up to him. He isn't as quick on his feet as Trump, and Wallace constantly had to break in and save him. If your game plan is to be combative, you can't keep getting mercy ruled every few minutes.

Readering said...

"If Trump had his wits about him"...he would be cruising to reelection. Last incumbent without primary challenge to lose was Herbert Hoover. Combine external factors and witlessness.....

walter said...

h said...

If Trump had his wits about him, he would have said, "Both Proud Boys and all six members of the Ku Klux Klan should stand down and go home."
--
Ha!

Iman said...

Blogger roesch/voltaire said...
Trump interupted over 75 times including interrupting the moderator so what else are you suppose call a person who does this but a clown?


As you’ve repeatedly shown you’re a beta, you should just call him “sir”.

n.n said...

Pretty clever of the democrat propaganda arm, the Nytimes to run an article about taxes

Yeah, the Obama/Pelosi tax change, and NYT using the tax code to reduce their liability. Hoisted by their own petard.

Big Mike said...

Wife just showed me pictures circulating on the Internet that apparently show Biden wearing wires. I sure hope the pictures are faked — I would hate to think Slow Joe cheated and still did pretty poorly.

Enlighten-NewJersey said...

Aug. 15, 2017

Reporter: You said there was hatred, there was violence on both sides …

Trump: Well, I do think there’s blame – yes, I think there’s blame on both sides. You look at, you look at both sides. I think there’s blame on both sides, and I have no doubt about it, and you don’t have any doubt about it either. And, and, and, and if you reported it accurately, you would say.

Reporter: The neo-Nazis started this thing. They showed up in Charlottesville. …

Trump: Excuse me, they didn’t put themselves down as neo — and you had some very bad people in that group. But you also had people that were very fine people on both sides. You had people in that group – excuse me, excuse me. I saw the same pictures as you did. You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down, of to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name. …

It’s fine, you’re changing history, you’re changing culture, and you had people – and I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists, because they should be condemned totally – but you had many people in that group other than neo-Nazis and white nationalists, okay? And the press has treated them absolutely unfairly. Now, in the other group also, you had some fine people, but you also had troublemakers and you see them come with the black outfits and with the helmets and with the baseball bats – you had a lot of bad people in the other group too.

Reporter: I just didn’t understand what you were saying. You were saying the press has treated white nationalists unfairly? …

Trump: No, no. There were people in that rally, and I looked the night before. If you look, they were people protesting very quietly, the taking down of the statue of Robert E. Lee. I’m sure in that group there were some bad ones. The following day, it looked like they had some rough, bad people, neo-Nazis, white nationalists, whatever you want to call them. But you had a lot of people in that group that were there to innocently protest and very legally protest because you know, I don’t know if you know, they had a permit. The other group didn’t have a permit. So I only tell you this: There are two sides to a story.

Birkel said...

Readering:
You should know what you advocate before you support a position.

The position for which you have expressed support is "when Democraticals can, they should break all historical norms to express their power over the Other" and it is at that point normal people will plan to shoot you in the fucking face. Repeatedly.

I wish you well in your choices.

bagoh20 said...

Based on recent performance, one of the men running for President was expected to have an attack of dementia and make a fool of himself. He didn't do quite that bad. Great Job! Now you should lead the world.

Nichevo said...


h said...
If Trump had his wits about him, he would have said, "Both Proud Boys and all six members of the Ku Klux Klan should stand down and go home."

9/30/20, 7:10 PM


I was not aware that Proud Boys are to be equated with the KKK.

Gk1 said...

I could have told you last week that hispanic voters are totally in with the "weak horse/strong horse" voting paradigm. The Telemundo vote was not a surprise. Joe just looked really old and faded the longer the debate went on. Hispanics know a weak link when they see one. Joe also seems to have a problem with saying "200 million people have died of covid" when he really meant "200,000". Is it a brain thing?

Crazy World said...

It is going to be a very long October.
Trump 2020
Put a lid on it Joe

DeepRunner said...

In a moment of cool neutrality, Madame La Professeur checked the notes and said...
"Biden tried to aggravate Trump by calling him 'man' over and over."

C'mon, man! Biden would n-e-v-e-r try to aggravate or annoy or anger or demean or demonize or diminish his opponent. Not IRISH CATHOLIC JOE from Scranton! He hasn't done it before, why would he do it during the debate?

Biden was totally the cheesy, swampy, oily, grasping inside-the-Beltway patronizing saint during the debate. His QVC approach to speaking to the sisters of suburbia about how much he cares, while not committing to saying what he actually cares about...perfect. Oy, the stones of "this man" Biden.

FWIW, Trump was the playground bully and did himself very few favors during The Nationally-Televised Food Fight.

wendybar said...

Rude, obnoxious and very Unpresidential for someone who has been in Politics for 47 years. Telling ANY President of the United States to SHUT UP, deserves scorn...not praise. The Democrats STILL haven't accepted Trump as the President. Joe is delusional, and if he wins, you get what you deserve, and I will be laughing all the way to my grave when the brown shirts come for me.

wendybar said...

It's so funny to watch the left hypoventilate about the multi racial Proud Boys calling them all white Supremacists. It was news to the Black Hispanic Chairman. "




"On Wednesday Proud Boy International Chairman Enrique Tarrio, an African-Hispanic American, spoke out against the smear that Proud Boys is a white supremacist group as Joe Biden claims."- Gateway Pundit.

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The problem is, Biden didn't really stand up to him.

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Farmer said...

It's pretty brass-ballsy for Biden to complain about Trump's behavior in a debate after his own behavior in his debate with Paul Ryan eight years ago. He's the original Trump!

SensibleCitizen said...

My lefty wife was put-off by Biden's name calling. She didn't like Trump's constant interruptions, but she noticed that Trump did not resort to name calling.

Wife: I can't stand Trump but he is President of the United States. Calling him liar, racist and a clown suggests Biden doesn't respect the office he's seeking.

Martin said...

Biden has always been a vicious little twerp. No reason to think a bit of dementia would change that.

If Trump and his advisers thought that a little push would make Biden melt down because he is beginning to lose it, they obviously (a) did not learn enough about Biden, and (b) have never dealt with a person in early stage Alzheimer's, which usually makes people MORE combative.