September 30, 2020

Asked to tell white supremacists to "stand down," Trump said "Proud Boys, stand back and stand by." Stand by?!

Let's look at the transcript of last night's debate:
Chris Wallace: You have repeatedly criticized the vice president for not specifically calling out Antifa and other left wing extremist groups. But are you willing tonight to condemn white supremacists and militia groups and to say that they need to stand down and not add to the violence in a number of these cities as we saw in Kenosha and as we’ve seen in Portland.

President Donald J. Trump: Sure, I’m willing to do that.
That's oddly clever. Asked "are you willing," he says "I'm willing." That's very literal, but the question invited him to do it, not to say he's willing to do it. Why not forthrightly take the cue to do it? Say "White supremacists and militia groups: You need to stand down." Just do it. What holds him back? Wallace has to re-prompt:
Chris Wallace: Are you prepared specifically to do it?
He doesn't even say the equivalent of "I'm willing" this time. He could be cleverly literal again and say, "I am prepared" (instead of doing it). But this time he changes the subject to the other side is worse:
President Donald J. Trump: I would say almost everything I see is from the left wing not from the right wing.
Wallace lamely says, "But what are you saying?" Trump abandons the effort to stress the violence on the left, and goes to the highest level of generality:
President Donald J. Trump: I’m willing to do anything. I want to see peace.
Picking up on that "willing to do anything," Wallace says, "Well, do it, sir." And Biden jumps in: "Say it, do it, say it." Have leapt at generality, Trump leaps at specificity:
President Donald J. Trump: What do you want to call them? Give me a name, give me a name, go ahead who do you want me to condemn?

Chris Wallace: White supremacist and right-wing militia.
Who exactly does Wallace mean? Is he referring to all who can be called "white supremacists" or is "white supremacist," like right-wing, a modifier for "militia"? "White supremacist" is a completely confusing term nowadays, because Critical Race Theory people would call nearly everything white supremacist. Trump comes up with his own specificity — one group, with a name, Proud Boys. [CORRECTION: It's not in my transcript, but I rewatched the video and Chris Wallace does offer the name "Proud Boys."]
President Donald J. Trump: Proud Boys, stand back and stand by.
Stand back and stand by?! The original demand was that he tell potentially violent right-wingers to stand down. That's the normal English phrase that tells potential fighters not to fight. Maybe Trump remembered the verb — "stand" — and forgot the preposition — "down." Under pressure, he thought of "back" — because "stand back" is also an idiomatic expression. It refers to observers and intermeddlers who are getting too close. Perhaps he realized he had the wrong phrase, so he tried again. He came up with "stand by." Still wrong, and, worse, it sounds as though he's saying remain on the alert and be prepared to fight.

The Trump-favoring interpretation is that the right preposition to go with "stand" had slipped his mind and he was groping for the right word and clumsily tried "back" and then "by." The Trump-hostile interpretation is that he meant to tell the Proud Boys that their efforts might be helpful in the future, perhaps quite soon, that he deliberately gave them some encouragement, winked that he liked them, that he knew what they were about and thought they had a contribution to make at some point, just not quite yet. Maybe Trump himself doesn't know. Maybe he simply wants the vaguely/distinctly racist right to get out there and vote for him. A vote's a vote — nothing more.

From there, he goes back to that change of subject he tried before: The left is worse:
President Donald J. Trump: But I’ll tell you what somebody’s got to do something about Antifa and the left because this is not a right wing problem this is a left wing.
This inspires Biden to say something that people are going to talk about:
Vice President Joe Biden: His own FBI Director said unlike white supremacists, Antifa is an idea not an organization, not a militia. 
Antifa is an idea....

Trump scoffs at that — "Oh, you got to be kidding me" — but Biden and Trump are talking about 2 different things. Trump is scoffing because there is real-life Antifa violence on the streets. There is action, not just an idea. But Biden is talking about the lack of an organization named "Antifa."
"Antifa" is a word for an idea, even if the idea lives in the mind of various human beings who take to the streets and wreak havoc.

So, in this section of the debate, both men uttered a phrase that can be deployed to accuse them of not taking the violence on their side seriously enough — or even of subtly encouraging the violent factions on their side. Trump said "Proud Boys, stand back and stand by," and Biden said "Antifa is an idea." Both statements can be minimized and explained away, and both can be inflated and made to seem shockingly ominous.

Is anyone today minimizing both or inflating both? I haven't read any analysis of the debate. I'm writing based on watching the debate and looking closely at the transcript. My guess is no. Biden supporters will inflate Trump's statement and minimize Biden's, and Trump supporters will inflate Biden's statement and minimize Trump's.

I like to be a distinctive writer, but I don't really want to be the only person who is showing that both statements can be minimized and both can be inflated. That's my brand: cruel neutrality. It shouldn't be such a rare product. If it is, it's because it's not the sort of thing people want to buy. It's not the way to do politics, really. It's just a perverse sideline over here.

Talk about standing back and standing by. And not being any sort of organization.

147 comments:

narciso said...

a leader in the proud boys, enrique torrio, is a black cuban, the ones who have burning down cities are not white supremacists,

cf said...

I think his shift in words was genius and exactly right.

Mark said...

One called for future action, one minimized the organization... and you lump them together.

When the right wing vigilantes refuse to accept the results, the Donald's comments will be more apparent.

Iman said...

This, climate change, Trump taxes, etc. Nothing on debt, nothing much at all about China... the biggest threats our country faces.

And yet Wallace will pat himself on the back.

wendybar said...

So he is supposed to tell them to stand down, when there are about 200 of them, and they arent the ones who are setting the cities on fire and beating up white people?? The people JOE calls an idea, and Gerry Nadler calls a myth are responsible for all of the damage. 2 billion dollars worth so Ive heard. Sit down about the Proud boys. When they start beating up progressives and get let out of jail with a wrist slap, I start worrying about them. Until the, lock and load and get ready for the "Ideas" to come.

Wince said...

Trump should have denounced racial supremacy across the board.

Blocking traffic with illegal road blocks, threatening outdoor diners and business people with violence so that they make compelled statements are themselves manifestations of racial supremacy -- above-the-law tactics justified by race in ways that play into the hands of groups like the Klan who invented those tactics.

Unknown said...

That was strange. Is there wide consensus on what constitutes a white supremacist group? Is the Federalist Society an instance of such a group? Why not? If all groups that despise Antifa are WS, there are a lot of WS out there.

gilbar said...

But this time he changes the subject to the other side IS worse:

natatomic said...

Okay, white Supremacists like the KKK are horrible groups.. But what have they done lately that we need to tell them to stop doing? Having hateful thoughts? Is it the KKK that’s out there burning down cities and ambushing cops and attacking people in their cars? Oh wait, no, that’s Antifa and BLM. As far as I can tell, the KKK is just this sad, little group spread out in tiny pockets in Alabama and West Virginia and a few other states, but for the most part, they stay in their hateful little bubbles and don’t leave them. They’re evil, but pretty much just all talk in modern days.

Now, I honestly don’t know if the proud boys are racists. I don’t know much about them at all. But the left likes to call me racist just for being white, so I dont assume anyone labeled racist actually IS until I see proof. Being against BLM, to me, doesn’t automatically a racist make, though the left disagrees. If they ARE a racist group, okay, stand down, sure. But still...what damage have they done lately? I still haven’t heard of anything even close to the scale the far-left groups have done lately. So what does Trump need to tell White Supremacists to stand down FROM? What are they even doing other than sitting on their fat, racists butts hating different people? Antifa needs to be called out, BLM needs to be called out.

Drago said...

"Who exactly does Wallace mean? Is he referring to all who can be called "white supremacists" or is "white supremacist," like right-wing, a modifier for "militia"? "White supremacist" is a completely confusing term nowadays, because Critical Race Theory people would call nearly everything white supremacist. Trump comes up with his own specificity — one group, with a name, Proud Boys."

According to CRT, ALL whites are racist white supremacists, that's the hook. If Trump agrees with Wallace's premise than Trump is handing CRT a "win". So Trump instinctively avoids giving that to the left.

Fernandinande said...

they need to stand down and not add to the violence

Wallace seems to want want only one type of "protestor", and violence in only one direction and for that violence to go unanswered.

Trump: I want to see peace.

As Wallace's favored violent rioters often explain, "No justice, no peace", and the justice they want is actually revenge for imaginary wrongs, and impossible to achieve.

Dan in Philly said...

Chris Wallace: are you prepared to tell your basket of deplorables to accept your inevitable loss? Also are you still beating your wife?

Stephen said...

Partisans, non-partisans, political professionals, and pundits of all persuasions are puzzled by what the first debate shows about the Presidential candidates' timber (insert wildfire allusion here) and more importantly how it will play in Peoria.

We'll have to wait for SNL to sort it out for us.

BidenFamilyTaxPayerFundedCrackPipe said...

We were told that Antifa is a "myth."

Now it's shifted to "Antifa is an idea".

An Idea inspired and supported by actual leftist democrats. or - democrats in power.

I think Biden meant to say "Antifa is ideal"

narciso said...

https://thefederalist.com/2020/09/30/fact-check-transcript-shows-trump-did-not-refuse-to-denounce-or-condemn-white-supremacy-at-debate/

Achilles said...

I like to be a distinctive writer, but I don't really want to be the only person who is showing that both statements can be minimized and both can be inflated. That's my brand: cruel neutrality. It shouldn't be such a rare product. If it is, it's because it's not the sort of thing people want to buy. It's not the way to do politics, really. It's just a perverse sideline over here. Talk about standing back and standing by. And not being any sort of organization.

Complete garbage.

A cruelly neutral person would note that there has been no organized violence from right wing groups.

Zero.

No democrat softball teams shot.

No Biden rallies attacked.

Nothing.

The closest thing they can come up with is a 17 year old shooting a bunch of convicted criminals and woman beaters who were violently attacking him in a mob.

The only white supremacists in Charlottesville were organized by Occupy Wall Street.

Lucid-Ideas said...

The other side is worse. They've cause $1-2 billion in property nationwide since May while the event that got them apoplectic involved tiki-torches.

They're not just worse, they're one billion times worse, and we will fight them.

BJK said...

The guy arrested in Green Bay last month with a flamethrower sure seemed to think Antifa was a real organization.

https://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/story/news/2020/08/31/neenah-man-charged-bringing-smoke-grenades-green-bay-rally-accused-pointing-rifle-police-waupaca/3448722001/

daskol said...

Why should Trump allow himself to be manipulated, puppet-like, into saying things that people hostile to him demand that he say, whenever they demand it? Meanwhile, Wallace introduced his invitation for Trump to condemn white supremacists, introduced the whole topic, with the Charlottesville hoax. I wish Trump had called out the debased, debunked hoaxes, that Wallace and Biden and their ilk use to foment face war, and to try to shame-force Trump the way his pathetic opponent is regularly shamed into parroting whatever Biden's told by his puppet masters. Or, more succinctly, Trump could have just said: I'm not your fucking puppet! Biden's the puppet!

Lucid-Ideas said...

Wallace literally repeated propaganda that antifa is a 'worldview'. Yeah....a worldview is burning down courthouses in Portland and using Uhaul trucks as makeshift forward operating bases.

Wallace can go fuck himself.

Ken B said...

Freeman Hunt had the best comment of the year: “Doesn’t anybody say fuck off anymore?”

Trump's best answer would have been:
“Yes, I condemn them. They can fuck off, and you can fuck off too for pretending I haven’t already condemned them many times. Antifa can fuck off too.”

Todd said...

It is a non sequitur but he could own them by replying:

Yes and right here and now I tell all white supremacists to stand down and stop, all 12 of you. Now will Biden tell the thousands of antifa to do the same, that are rioting, killing, and burning down our cities for months now?

RichAndSceptical said...

The transcript left something out. It was Biden that first said Proud Boys and Trump then responded. In fact, Proud Boys is neither a white supremacist group or a militia. It is a pro western democracy group open to men from all races.

Wallace was parroting a Democrat talking point and Biden followed with a lying spiel about racism in US. If I was Trump, I would have had a hard time not walking across the stage and punching Biden right between the eyes. What Biden said is proof the Democrats are purposely using racial tensions to try to win the election.

Clayton Hennesey said...

Those who read across the sites where the remnants of once was the alt-right now lurk repeatedly hear the phrase "the movement died after Charlottesville". The former leaders at Charlottesville, Cris Cantwell, the meth-boofing "crying Nazi", and others are routinely mocked. The platform Gab is uniformly regarded as a "Fed honeypot" populated only by "Boomer Magapedes" and post count-inflating bots. Parler is regarded even less, and at the refugee site freespeechextremist.com the "white supremacist terrorists" routinely talk more about video gaming than they do edgily tossing out terms like "nigger" and "kike".

The now-multisexual Boy Scouts could take down Gavin McInnes' Proud Boys in any encounter; the latter are just that few in number.

In short, the "white supremacist" shock troops, all several dozen of them, are largely little more than aging infantilists still cultivating a need to scandalize Mom and Dad while escaping into videogame soma.

Those interested in cruel neutrality might wish to do some first order investigating in such parts as well.

The notion of "white supremacist terror groups" is a straw man perpetuated by Christopher Wray, a swamp creature from the organization that birthed James Comey, Peter Strok, and the entire Crossfire Hurricane setup, only just now being publicly documented, and amplified by the legacy media and Big Tech.

Simply search "wray white supremacists" on Google and then on Bing to see how the public information battle space is being shaped.

BidenFamilyTaxPayerFundedCrackPipe said...

Are Proud boys rioting and burning each night?

Just asking.

Here'sAndy NGO's twitter feed which is essentially a police blotter showcasing left-wing terrorism, perpetrated by "just an idea" Antifas.

BidenFamilyTaxPayerFundedCrackPipe said...

Please note - that leftwing Portland released leftwing terrorists without bail.

OldManRick said...

Ideas don't start fires, loot businesses, attack police, harm people. Ideas don't have organized bail funds to spring the rioters who proudly proclaim they are Antifa. Ideas don't have funds to support travel to other locations to riot. Ideas don't bring U-Hauls of riot equipment to a hot spot to make the riot worse. Ideas don't write books like Antifa : The Anti-Fascist Handbook.

Antifa has as much organization as Communism, Nazism, and much more than the White Supremacy that they claim to be opposing.

The claim that Antifa is an idea is total garage used by the left to avoid taking responsibility for what they have created.

SensibleCitizen said...

Another frustrating exchange was the mail-in ballot issue.

Trump repeatedly called "absentee ballots" "solicited ballots." No one knows what a solicited ballot is because there is no such thing. He meant to say absentee ballots are solicited; mass ballots are just sent out using multiple data bases -- so someone who is on the voting register, and also has a car registration, might receive two ballots if the system failed to reconcile the duplication. That is the problem with mass ballots.

The lack of precision in the language diluted the argument to a non-argument.

Laslo Spatula said...

Wallace insisted he tell them to "stand down".

Trump chose to rephrase so as not to sound like a hectored schoolboy.

Wallace waits for Biden to give him the apple.

I am Laslo.

buwaya said...

I dont see a problem.
There is a need for a political "street force" under current conditions.
Soon, very likely, there will be a greater need.
Lets not be disingenuous here, as is the MSM fashion.
Really, the Biden/Wallace position is pure gaslighting.

Trumps opponents have extensive organizations that can put people on any American street in the hundreds or thousands, with a menu of peaceful to violent flavorings.
The Trumpian side requires the same, but is behind in providing them. Whatever his side has, like the Proud Boys, he needs to protect and preserve.

And it is also disingenuous to claim that the police matter in this, if their political masters wont let them intervene. You are that broken, let us say that openly. The idea of normality exists in a fantasy world.

Trump often seems to be trying to communicate both to people living in that fantasy world, and in the real world, who "get" it. This can be confusing.

320Busdriver said...
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Witness said...

What a clusterfuck.

320Busdriver said...

Mail in ballots, not absentee ballots, are going to create a civil war in a month. Mark my words. Just look at what was uncovered a day ago in MSP with the Omar primary election. Dems are now on a scorched earth suicide mission. It’s all they’ve got.

BidenFamilyTaxPayerFundedCrackPipe said...

why didn't Wallace hammer Biden on Antifa rioting and arson?

Because the media have circled the wagons.

Amadeus 48 said...

Trump totally bolixed that up. I have no idea what he was trying to say.

I would have said something like,

I am happy to denounce neo-nazis and white supremacists, as indeed I did after Charlottesville, notwithstanding the lies that people like Joe Biden tell. But remember we have the rights of free speech and peaceable assembly in this country, and protesters and others of any political stripe are always welcome to express their views peacefully in this country.

BidenFamilyTaxPayerFundedCrackPipe said...

2 billion is property damage - ALL of it by leftwing Antifa and Marxist BLM.

Wallace has nothing to say about that.

You think elite democrats give a shit about ordinary people who lost their businesses because some white leftist had to get his rage out?

No. Wallace lives in peace.

BidenFamilyTaxPayerFundedCrackPipe said...

Agreed- Wallace can go fuck himself. Just another democrat-crime excusing media HACK.

narciso said...

exactly buwaya, elegantly said,

Joe Smith said...

The only people who think Trump is actually a racist are crazy lefties who will never vote for him.

I think Trump got his back up being ordered to do something by a weasel like Wallace, basically treating him like a trained seal...'bark Mr. President when I tell you to.'

His natural inclination is to tell Wallace to fuck off...that would be mine, too.

Trump is the least racist president we've ever had.

Freeman Hunt said...

I didn't think Trump came up with Proud Boys. I thought Biden said it right before Trump answered, and Trump used the last thing names.

Carol said...

People's lack of knowledge of how their balloting systems work is a real problem.

Yall are talking out your asses. There may be real problems but the lack of precision about what they are is making everything worse.

Left Bank of the Charles said...

I thought it was Chris Wallace who interjected the Proud Boys for Donald Trump to comment upon. But now we know who Trump thought were the very fine people Marching beside the white supremacists and neo-nazis - the Proud Boys.

Mike (MJB Wolf) said...

People paying attention know Trump has repeatedly condemned white supremacists etc, even in the same paragraph that Biden misquotes all the time. If you think Trump's a racist nothing will change your mind now. However an interesting metric is that Univision viewers voted Trump the winner by more than 2:1 margin.

Aggie said...

A person who demands that you repeat their words back is already setting up the next demand for compliance. It's a fool's gambit.

And in fact, Trump has already disavowed supremacists explicitly - as we all know. He did it on the same day of the Charlottesville speech, a few sentences before the 'good people on both sides' phrase, which is the one that has been frequently extracted and misquoted out of context in order to imply that Trump is racist.

Dementia Joe might not know this any longer, but - what is Chris Wallace's excuse? He can't not know it, he's paid to know it. He tipped his hand in a major way when he sided with Joe in that lie instead of confronting the liar - Joe.

Calypso Facto said...
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henge2243 said...

Would you explain the term, 'cruel neutrality'. It seems to me to be an oxymoron - without checking the actual definitions. Bland neutrality? Half-hearted neutrality? Milquetoast neutrality? Wonder Bread neutrality?

I prefer the term, 'merciless realist' by the poet Linton Kwesi Johnson.

Kate said...

@buwaya Yes, agree. Also agree with the person who suggests that "fuck off" become part of debate language. This whole topic is so Left-driven, so boring, so relentless. Trump came as close to saying it as he could with "stand by".

buwaya said...

Why not openly organize a conservative militia?

By the Trump org and whatever Republican groups can be brought on board?
You now depend on a very few brave but marginal folk for this, while the other side solicits billionaires (not just Soros) to fund their own party militias.

The conservative strategy is to use what is left of the legitimate institutions, to restore properly orderly order, which is normal for conservatives after all.
But there is a refusal to acknowledge that these institutions are hopelessly broken.

That open, official organization of a conservative party militia will very likely break the real situation (through the hue and cry) into the fantasy bubbles of the normalists.

hombre said...

That’s another of Wallace’s DNC questions. Instances of so-called right wing extremist violence in the burning cities are largely undocumented fake news.

tim maguire said...

Best would have been if Trump refused to play the left-right game and instead condemned the groups in descending order of culpability for violence. Antifa is a problem. BLM is a problem. Proud Boys are a joke.

Howard said...

Bring it on. We need more of you people to enlist in the Portly Proud Boys to combat the libtards who want blacks to invade the burbs and rape your daughters. Bone spurs are no excuse.

Joe Smith said...

Wallace asking Trump to disavow being a racist is a 'When did you stop beating your wife?' moment.

Wallace is a pompous jerk.

BidenFamilyTaxPayerFundedCrackPipe said...

Portland Sheriff (the county Sheriff) DOES NOT SUPPORT DONALD TRUMP.

Let it be known.

Some of these Antifa terrorists have been arrested 6-7 times already. Each time they are released by this left-wing sheriff who hates Trump.

That's law and order in America now. If you hate Trump, then you support terror against other citizens based solely on the notion that Antifa operate as a Hate group. A Trump-hate group.

Kay said...

Maybe I’m not looking hard enough but these last two posts have been the only good analysis about the debates that I’ve seen anywhere. And I thank you for that professor.

Drago said...

Left Bank of the Charles: "I thought it was Chris Wallace who interjected the Proud Boys for Donald Trump to comment upon. But now we know who Trump thought were the very fine people Marching beside the white supremacists and neo-nazis - the Proud Boys."

Seriously, aside from Freder, your "hot takes" are some of the most laughable non-logical and incoherent.

But amusingly consistent.

FleetUSA said...

Professor, I come here to appreciate the thinking of someone standing on the sidelines and observing. Thank you

Gusty Winds said...

Trump was 100% right. The violence is perpetuated by the left. That's a mystery?

BidenFamilyTaxPayerFundedCrackPipe said...

Andy Ngo is the lone voice of reality and sanity.

How sad we have a corrupt press(D).

"Antifa Seven Hills is a group. Antifa Sacramento is a group. Atlanta Antifascists is a group. Youth Liberation Front is a group. There are many, many antifa groups. And they are violent," Ngo informed.


Joe Biden falsely claims Antifa is simply 'an idea'

Birches said...

Trump was fighting two against one during this exchange. Wallace was trying to nail Trump into answering but didn't do the same for Biden.

bagoh20 said...

People, especially Trump haters, are always saying that Trump could fix this or that by just telling people to do something. That's just ridiculous. Trump could kill off half the country by telling people to avoid eating Arsenic.

The White supremacists, all 87 of them, who are apparently secretly leading thousands of left wing radicals in rioting across the country would not stop just because Trump told them to. They are irrelevant, but they don't like Trump anyway. He's way too liberal for them. He's got Jews in the family and has been hanging around with rich Black guys for decades. They just hate the Democrats more. Biden can't stop the violence of the nuts on his side either. It was a stupid exercise by Wallace trying tho get the candidates to virtue signal. A worthless argument over bullshit.

bobby said...

"Look, I don't want to start a fight - can't you simply state for the record here that you won't beat your wife today?"

"But, I never . . . ."

Oh, hell, can't you just say it, sir?"

Calypso Facto said...

320Busdriver said..."Mail in ballots, not absentee ballots, are going to create a civil war in a month. Mark my words."

I haven't been able to keep up with complete reading of all the threads over the past couple days: has Althouse commented yet with an opinion on Madison's own ballot harvesting efforts over the weekend? The City of Madison Colludes with the Biden Campaign to Violate Wisconsin Election Law

Iman said...

“cruel neutrality“ taken to its logical conclusion would leave one kicking one’s own ass in perpetuity as a means of penance.

bagoh20 said...

Every recent presidential debate has the wonderful dynamic of the moderator arguing with the Republican and propping up the Democrat at some point, but never the reverse. It's a compliment actually to the Republicans that says the Dems need help to look good in a face to face contest.

Clyde said...

In the apocalyptic opening scene of The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim, when someone said, "I thought dragons were just a legend," Ulfric Stormcloak replied, "Legends don't burn down villages." The same goes for "ideas."

Gunner said...

Why does Trump have to say stupid shit like that? I love the guy, but he whiffed on the whole "very fine people" smear. Its so easy to refute. Why doesn't he?

doctrev said...

1) The easiest way to refute the notion of white supremacist violence is to ask why the governments of Oregon and Minnesota keep tiptoeing around their rioters.

2) I'm annoyed- but only mildly- by the fact Donald Trump didn't promise to kill supremacists, whether they're white or black. Would have been an easy way to look tough, and would put Biden in a box. Just ask the American people for a mandate.

But the people who think they can do better than Donald Trump are dreaming. Does a retired law prof seriously think she can shout down a moderator who would effortlessly mute her mike? Do they think they can turn around a debate where critical questions about an extra-legal coup, major new trade deals, and vast corruption went almost entirely unchallenged? It's Dunning-Kruger writ large. I can cook up any number of Trump lines, but I have the self-awareness to know only the most alpha of men can just cut through the noise. Even Reagan would fail at bringing the heat consistently- it just wasn't his brand. But it's core identity for Donald Trump.

That's how you get more Trump, and that's why the left wants to cancel all further debates.

Jack Klompus said...

Howard is flat out retarded.

wendybar said...

Old lying Joe is going to court!! Lin Wood (Attorney for Nick Sandmann, and now Kyle Rittenhouse) issured this notice today: "Formal demand for public retraction is being prepared for Biden/Harris Campaign on behalf of Kyle Rittenhouse.

I also hereby demand that @JoeBiden immediately retract his false accusation that Kyle is a white supremacist & militia member responsible for violence in Kenosha."

gilbar said...

Jo Biden said..
His own FBI Director said unlike white supremacists, Antifa is an idea not an organization, not a militia.

So, according to Jo, the FBI says that:
A) 'white supremacists' are AN organization
B) Antifa is an 'idea'

WHO are the leaders of this 'white supremacists' organization?
HOW does this 'idea' afford
i) bricks?
ii) U haul trucks?
iii) medics*?
iv) bail money and lawyers?

medics* if your paramilitary group, has MEDICS; aren't you pretty well organized ??

buwaya said...

Well, I myself am just a foreigner, and now residing overseas to boot.
So I, my own not so pudgy self, cannot participate, in spite of being in not that bad a shape. Certainly don't have bulging veins. We are planning an at least partial walk on the trail to Compostela when the weather cools off. There are very few doing it this year.

Anyway, the other side has such a militia, best to force it to emerge.

Kevin said...

Shorter debate from last night:

Trump: Here’s everything I’ve done in 47 months. Joe’s done nothing in 47 years.

Biden: But he has no plan! I have many detailed plans, none of which came from Bernie Sanders.

Trump: What are your plans for appointing judges, packing the Supreme Court, and eliminating the filibuster?

Biden: I was explicitly told not to discuss those plans.

Trump: What a loser. I’ve got 80 minutes left with this guy?

Wallace: Mr. Trump, about white supremacy...

The Cracker Emcee Refulgent said...

Don’t watch network TV so I don’t see the political ads. But, as I’m on the road in Oregon, I saw an anti-Biden ad (actually a mini-horror movie) that very explicitly addresses suburban mother’s fears about BLM violence. There was nothing nuanced about it and it squarely laid the violence at the Democrat’s feet. Unusual and super-solid!

Bilwick said...

Trump is lucky he didn't mention Fox's apparent new overlord, Darth Soros. Wallace would have shut him down instanter.

Michael K said...

to combat the libtards who want blacks to invade the burbs and rape your daughters.

Well, I don't know about rape, but but here you go.

(Big League Politics) – A Democratic state legislative candidate called upon a Black Lives Matter mob “protesting” in a residential neighborhood of Hugo, Minnesota to “burn down” the Minneapolis/St. Paul suburban community.

“Don’t run now. Don’t run now, racist white people. I’m here. Oh yeah, we pull up!….Blue Lives ain’t shit. F*** Hugo, Minnesota.”

Thompson appeared to be directing his rant towards several teenage girls.


You're welcome.

rhhardin said...

Nobody knows what a white supremacist is other than a term of abuse. To assent Trump would have to agree to a definition set by his opponents.

I'd say white supremacist is used to characterize as hating blacks, which doesn't seem to be the case with proud boys. They're something else, say fight club enthusiasts with a patriotic bent.

Bilwick said...

Instapundit warned that as long as the MSM handles these debates, and MSM people are the moderators, only topics of interest and use to Democrats will be the topics of discussion.

Greg The Class Traitor said...

Stand back and stand by?! The original demand was that he tell potentially violent right-wingers to stand down.

And the proper response to that is "go fuck yourself.

1: I note Chris Wallace didn't try to demand that Biden tell Antifa and BLM to stop rioted, stop destroying, stop attacking, and stop killing.

2: I note that Walliace did ask Biden if he had gone to the Mayors and Governors of the riot torn cities, and tell them they needed to stop the violence. Biden refused, and Wallace let it go

3: Here is the proper right wing response: If the Democrats don't start the violence, we won't finish it. But when teh Democrats do start the violence, we can and will respond, not with "proportionate" violence, but with whatever level of violence is needed to get them to stop.

"Stand back and stand by": Don't start anything, but always finish it.

Also, who the help is Chris Wallace to be making political demands on the President of the US?

Greg The Class Traitor said...

Howard said...
Bring it on

And here I thought you spent days whining about Kyle Rittenhouse.

Make up your mind, Howie

Ryan said...

"Stand by" according to the first dictionary definition means "to remain apart or aloof."
What's wrong with telling Proud Boys to remain apart or aloof from the violence?

Clearly Trump did not mean the second definition, which is to "to be or to get ready to act."

Mike of Snoqualmie said...

The Clackamas County (just south of Portland) sherriff does support Trump.

One talking point of the left is that right-wingers are infiltrating the protests and encouraging the protesters to riot. That's nonsense. The rioters are BLM and antifa. Antifa is organized, they come with equipment - shields, leaf blowers, umbrellas. They bring explosives and incinderies. They use the protesters as shields.

The Democrat mayors and governors don't want to suppress the riots. They think it benefits them, regardless of the destruction of property and the increase in crime.

Night said...

Trump interprets Wallace's view of white supremacy like I do. Wallace means deplorables. Which is essentially every Trump voter. The left has blinders on. How does Trump communicate correctly across that divide? Can he digress about Marxism and the crippling effect it has on children's minds?

Antifa is an idea like a bicycle is sometimes a car and sometimes a pedestrian. Convenience is the key. When its convenient to run over people Antifa becomes a car on a sidewalk.

Scott Adams could use some of your cruel neutrality today. He's starting to understand that persuasion isn't the foundation of consciousness. A useful tool but used personally too often it will bite back.

bagoh20 said...

You left out transcript of Biben at key times that's significant.

Wallace: You have repeatedly criticized the vice president for not specifically calling out Antifa —

Trump: That’s right.

Wallace: — and other left-wing extremist groups. But are you willing, tonight to condemn white supremacists and militia groups —

Trump: Sure.

Wallace: — and to say that they need to stand down and not add to the violence in a number of these cities as we saw in Kenosha, and as we’ve seen in Portland.

Trump: Sure, I’m willing to do that.

Wallace: Are you prepared specifically to do it.

Trump: I would say —

Wallace: Go ahead, sir.

Trump: I would say almost everything I see is from the left wing not, not from the right wing.

Wallace: So what are you — what are you saying?

Trump: I’m willing to do anything. I want to see peace.

Wallace: Well, then, do it, sir.

Trump: I am —

Biden: Say it. Do it. Say it.

Trump: Do you call them — What do you want to call them? Give me a name. Give me a name.

Wallace: White supremacist — and right-wing militia.

Trump: Go ahead. Who would you like me to condemn?

Biden: White supremacists. The Proud Boys.

Trump: Who.

Wallace: White supremacists and right-wing militia.

Trump: Proud Boys, stand back and stand by. But I’ll tell you what, I’ll tell you what. Somebody’s got to do something about Antifa and the left. Because this is not a right-wing problem —

Biden: His own — his own FBI director said —

Trump: –this is a left-wing problem. This is a left-wing problem.

Biden: — the threat comes from white supremacists. Antifa is an idea, not an organization.

Trump: Oh, you gotta be kidding.

Biden: Not militia. That’s what his FBI —

Trump: Oh, really, FBI, OK.

Biden: His FBI director said.

Wallace: Gentlemen, we’re gonna —

Trump: Well, then he’s wrong.

Wallace: No, no. We’re done, sir.

Night said...

I can listen to Trump and tell he wants all people to do well. Via jobs. He doesn't discriminate. Even your Antifa low life and the illiterate actual white supremist needs a job.

Trump sees this better than any one in the media or in politics. It is a 3D conception in a 2D media world. Whether intentional or not by Trump. I expect him to continually adjust his message to persuade slices of the electorate with slices of the 3D cake.

You can parse Trumps words and see that he is trained in Tony Robbins and Dale Carnegie. And he takes that training to heart. It's a motivational and compassionate philosophy. Put into the national spotlight it is currently frustrating Trump but I expect him to adjust.

Night said...

One message here should be that a little racist humor by Joe Rogan would be ok if it occurred. Let comedians lead the way to a new form of tolerance. I'm sure Chappelle would back him up.

Tina Trent said...

I agree with Achilles.

Neutrality doesn't mean completely abdicating any sense of scale or measurable harm demonstrated through hard and obvious statistics on violence, rioting, looting, intimidation, assaults, murder -- especially murders of police. Consequential rises in crime due to the lawless of the rioters are documented by rational specialists such as Heather MacDonald. Media bias may also be measured in dozens of ways, including the one-sided, obvious refusal to document which "protests" and which "protesters" follow the law when protesting, get permits, don't block freeways and kill people on exit ramps, don't mob, loot, and threaten pedestrians and drivers. The cost to the public of the police time, lost business, loss of property, commerce, and life can be accounted.

There's neutrality. Then there's fetishizing neutrality over rationality and evidence. The latter is anything but neutral.

minnesota farm guy said...

Did not watch. Can see from Ann's piece why people think Wallace was a total loss. When the hell does the moderator get to shape someone's comments? That's what Wallace was trying to do. Trump answered his first question which was the only question that should have been needed.

The format of allowing moderators to ask questions is ludicrous given the bias of anyone who might get picked to moderate. We would be a whole lot better off if the opposing sides got to submit their questions for each other and the moderator just read them and kept the time. The questions could not be any more slanted.

320Busdriver said...

Wallace, to his credit, pressed Trump HARD on what HE can/will do about the flood of mail in ballots that are going out into the cities by the millions.

Trump did not answer, because there is no good answer to the lefts cheating, win at all costs deceptions.

PHenry said...

Trump should have denounced any racial supremacy.
I don't claim to know much about the proud boys. I don't get the impression they are some kind of racial supremacy group, but instead a response to race based attacks on anyone 'white', IE, critical race theory and BLM.
His comments on the proud boys were a response to Biden's attempt to include them in the white supremacy smear. Trump knows the proud boys are supporters of his, and are ready to stand up and fight for their country and constitution. He knows the Democrats intend to cheat, defraud, intimidate and litigate this election, and he is just making it clear that just because Democrats try to pull another 'found ballots' debacle, his supporters won't just sit back and let it happen. They will not be intimidated by the threats of riots and violence, and they will not just accept the fraudulent results because the left says so.
The context of the question was 'after you lose, will you tell your followers to accept it without violence?' The answer was, first, we have to see that we lost fair and square. That is the missing bit in Wallace's too trite 'will you accept the outcome' scenario.

PM said...

'Repeat exactly what I tell you to say.'

Why would anyone comply with that condescension?

Yancey Ward said...

Here is how a true uncommitted voter will view this exchange:

Wallace pressed Trump specifically to prove he wasn't a proponent of the violence we have seen in the cities this, but chose to have Trump condemn the people not responsible for it. Wallace did no similar thing with Biden, did he, when it is actually more appropriate to do so.

The Gipper Lives said...

Corrupt scumbag Joe Biden called the President of the United States a racist, a liar and a clown and told him to shut up. It's easy to use the entire Nat/Sec Apparatus to wiretap, frame and overthrow somebody you hold in such contempt, isn't it, Joe?
No wonder the President was feisty. You'd be pissed too if you had to spend the evening with Chris Wallace and Joe Biden--especially after seeing Gen. Flynn prosecuted by a judge, yet another special un-American Police State rule just for Donald Trump. And then you have to go debate the swinish yet senile jackleg grifter who participated in framing both you and Gen. Flynn.

Bill Barr wants it both ways. He claims his prosecutors were malicious, yet will not charge them with malicious prosecutions. Or fire them. Or even discipline them. What the hell, Bill? You can't protect your precious DOJ by finessing a Police State coup, Big Boy.

Thus far, there have been exactly three Deep State prosecutions:

* Obama/Clinton/Castro lawyer Greg Craig was given some Flynn-like charges as a way to prove the even-handedness of the Mueller Fraud. Craig agreed to a Kabuki Court-show because they couldn't very well charge the Podestas. So they gave Craig a leftist D.C. Acquittin' Jury and It Was Like It Never Even Happened(tm).

* Life-long FBI Agent and Senate Security Chief James Wolfe leaked the FISA Warrant for Senator BurrWarner, and was charged with jaywalking. The sweetheart plea was conditional on not ratting out the crooked senators who participated in the Coup.

* FBI lawyer and Coup-plotting seditionist Kevin Clinesmith, who forged documents at the behest of Andrew Weissman for the FISA Court, in order to hide Carter Page's history as a CIA mole. Otherwise, the FISA renewal would have been rejected. He also got an overdue book fine. It looks like he was also given a plea deal, not to sing, but to silence.

That's it. Now Comey will appear before the Senate, who will largely try to throw him--and him alone--under the bus. Here's the thing that AG Barr doesn't or won't grasp: if the Obama/Biden/Clinton Crime Family are allowed to escape with impunity, they will have to keep committing more crimes to cover up the previous crimes, a permanent escalation of sedition, as we have seen. Now, they're even burning down and wrecking their own cities and assaulting Americans with their Klantifa Brownshirts.

Worse, should they re-assume power with no accountability for their Coup, that would institutionalize an American Police State forever.

And that's the day the Revolution would really start.

BrentonTalcott said...

"Complete garbage.

A cruelly neutral person would note that there has been no organized violence from right wing groups.

Zero."

QFT

I've tried to poke our scholarly hostess with the absurdity of such a claim.

TBH

I come for the free thinking commenters who have a sincere subjective perspective.

And Ann's english language knowledge and gracious hosting.

Everyone is subjective and not neutral, if you are a sentient bag of water, achieving true neutrality is rarer than gold and often impure.

Drago said...

Night: "Trump interprets Wallace's view of white supremacy like I do. Wallace means deplorables."

Correct.

Bilwick said...

I always hope Trump answers stupid questions on white supremacists with Ayn Rand's "Racism is the most primitive form of collectivism." And then enjoy the beautiful sounds of "liberal" heads exploding.

NorthOfTheOneOhOne said...

Greg The Class Traitor said...

1: I note Chris Wallace didn't try to demand that Biden tell Antifa and BLM to stop rioted, stop destroying, stop attacking, and stop killing.

Wallace, like Biden, is trying to distance the DemocRATs from their earlier rah-rahing of Antifa. Too many Kristallnacht comparisons for their liking. It's also become clear that they may not be able to ratchet Antifa/BLM down if Joe wins.

And who knows? Antifa may not like Joe's statement that Antifa is an idea and doesn't exist. It may backfire on him.

rehajm said...

Freeman Hunt had the best comment of the year: “Doesn’t anybody say fuck off anymore?”

If respected commenter Freeman Hunt asks, I shall answer...

...both men uttered a phrase that can be deployed to accuse them of not taking the violence on their side seriously enough — or even of subtly encouraging the violent factions on their side...

This statement is dangerous, but anyone who wants to deem appropriate to further this idea and draw an equivalence between the highly coordinated international effort of Democrat politicians, well funded left wing organizations and (PAID) violent rioters with counter speech or threats from a small unverified organic group of 'Proud Boys' or some...that person can fuck off.

BidenFamilyTaxPayerFundedCrackPipe said...

The FBI director! LOL

The FBI is mostly corrupt

BidenFamilyTaxPayerFundedCrackPipe said...

Is there any evidence that Proud Boys do bad things?

I'm asking in all honesty.

BidenFamilyTaxPayerFundedCrackPipe said...

Trump: "Proud Boys, stand back and stand by."

It's becoming clearer to me what Trump meant.
In his clumsy way-- he was not requesting anything. Trump was stating that THE Proud Boys stand back and stand by -> as opposed to Antifa, who actively night after night, destroy
property. It was an observation not a request.

Antifa are actively destroying property each and every night. Proud Boys "stand back and stand by" - they are NOT doing those things.

Correct me if I am wrong.

Trump isn't a careful speaker. The left know this and they abuse it. Biden is a train-wreck but he gets a pass. We know this because Jill decreed it and the media will obey. You lying dog faced pony soldiers.

CJ said...

Okay I'm late to this one but here's my $.02. "Stand down and stand by" means let the antifa radicals go ahead and torment the urban liberals. Let your enemies fight each other; now is not the time to confront them directly.

Michael K said...

Blogger Ryan said...
"Stand by" according to the first dictionary definition means "to remain apart or aloof."
What's wrong with telling Proud Boys to remain apart or aloof from the violence?


Yes. I agree. I still wonder about Wallace brining up Tulsa that had a race riot 100 years ago.

The Vault Dweller said...

I don't think it is fair at all to call the Proud Boys a White Supremacist organization. I think Gavin McInnes kinda started them and I believe he initially did it on a lark. He and others have described themselves as a "Western Chauvinist" kind of organization. Lefty hard-ons for Dog Whistles aside, it really does seem like that. I definitely wouldn't call them a militia. That seems like some kind of Paramilitary organization. I don't even think they are a Para-Paramilitary organization. I would think of something like that to be the Guardian Angels group of old. Maybe they are a Para-Para-Paramilitary organization? Because I don't think they specifically organize to go on 'patrols' or even protests. I think of it as a more mobile, Western Chauvinist oriented Elk Lodge. I can't think of any time the "Proud Boys" rolled into town and smashed up some store fronts or anything criminal like that. It really does seem more like they don't like it when lefty radical groups riot or loot in cities and then they show up. To the extent they show up at rallies, I guess I would think of them as the equivalent of Nation of Islam marchers. They don't go out trying to cause trouble but they won't be a punching bag either.

n.n said...

White supremacist is an order of color supremacist under diversity dogma. The American right is libertarian. The American center is conservative: Pro-Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness, and does not indulge diversity dogma. Diversity (i.e. color judgments), including denial of individual dignity, denial of individual conscience, normalization of color blocs, color quotas, and affirmative discrimination is a belief advocated by the ostensibly "secular" Progressive Church with its Pro-Choice, selective, opportunistic, politically congruent quasi-religion ("ethics"), and affiliated Progressive and Liberal sects.

breaking-blm-invades-the-suburbs-calls-to-to-burn-it-down-video

Some, Select Black Lives Matter is the neo-KKK.

Proud Boys is neither a white supremacist group or a militia. It is a pro western democracy group open to men from all races

And militias before them, and America in both principle and practice, where diversity dogma is antithetical in both spirit and letter to the American character.

walter said...

So Biden won't advise Governors in his party regarding Antifa because he's not in office..yet he felt compelled to call Trump on how to handle Covid.
And giving an answer regarding the courts, that he highlighted re Roe, and the filibuster would just be a distraction. So..err..VOTE!!!

That said, why was Trump seemingly pissed from the jump?

What the hell is a K shaped recovery?

SGT Ted said...

Avoiding addressing the groups of people who are actually burning, looting and murdering in organized fashion and only talking about condemning the groups who aren't is just another form of civility bullshit.

Mike of Snoqualmie said...

Rose City (Portland, OR) Antifa objects to the allegation that they don't exist. They say they've been proudly rioting since 2007! They are most proud of their association with the Youth Liberation Front and the 120-days of riots in Portland's downtown and selected residential districts.

They categorically condemn Joe Biden for his assertions that they are just and "ideal." They will congregate at Joe's Delaware home for vigorous discussions on his denials!

Rabel said...

As I understand Critical Race Theory and its extension to the concept of White Fragility, you, Ann Althouse are a white supremacist and a racist and these characteristics are an immutable and dominating aspect of your identity.

Since President Trump failed to condemn you to your satisfaction I'll try to help.

I condemn you!

Better now?

Ceciliahere said...

Pres. Trump will you denounce any white supremacy group? Who is that? You know, call off those people, the mobs, causing the rioting, attacking and shooting police, burning down of cities, destroying businesses, attacking people enjoying dinner at their home or an outdoor cafe, punching old women while they are walking home, you know, those white right-wing mobs we see on TV news every night: THE PROUD BOYS! The who??? Look away when you see people with BLM banners and BLM tee shirts, etc. don’t see those ANTIFA people dressed in black with their faces covered, who shoot police officers, who club innocent citizens and seem to be organized from city to city, who want to overthrow the country and create a new Cuba or Venezuela. Who do you believe Chris Wallace, Joe Biden or your lying eyes?
What’s wrong with you? It is white supremacist who are causing all the violence in this country, let’s go to the video tape and rerun it city, by city and see the PROUD BOYS leading the mob.

Susan said...

Biden may have made a serious mistake in today's follow-up to this topic from last night's debate.

Biden's twitter account posted a picture of 17 year old Kyle Rittenhouse then said that Trump refused to denounce White Supremacists.

Kyle's lawyer, Lin Wood, called Biden out today for calling his client a white supremacist and said they will sue.

*Popcorn popped*

Milwaukie guy said...

Just started the thread and now I have to do a meeting.

I don't actually know much about Proud Boys but one of their main spokesman/leaders in Portland is a big black dude named, of course, Tiny.

Maybe the media can put him on to talk about Proud Boys, Patriot Prayer and "white supremacy." How about Don Le-mon?

Jim at said...

Defending yourself against a bunch of murderous, left-wing thugs makes one a white supremacist?

OK. I'll add it to the list.

Temujin said...

The violence is clearly, and without any question far and away a product of the organized Left. It is BLM (marxist) and Antifa (marxist). These are not organic protests/riots. These are planned and supplied by outside money, backed by local DA's and Mayors and, in some cases, Governors. The violence on the right was a kid defending the City of Kenosha and defending himself- from the Lefties who had destroyed the city. As his case will show, he acted in self-defense. You can ask if he should have been there with a rifle, but then you also need to ask, why were the mobs of lefties there with guns, bombs, bricks, and fire? Or other 'right violence' was a Trump truck parade through Portland. For parading, a Trump supporter was murdered.

Joe was not asked, and the Left has yet to be asked to answer for the destruction in Portland, Seattle, LA, SF, Kenosha, Milwaukee, Detroit, Baltimore, Chicago, et. al. Joe and the Left are always given a pass. And worse: They are allowed to project- and claim it is the right wing that is ripping things apart and creating the violence. Huh? In what reality?

The lack of questions along this line as well as other obvious questions for Joe to answer for keep the Elite smiling and the Left ignorant of their own side, their own failings. Smug and ignorant is not a good way to go through life.

320Busdriver said...


Blogger PM said...
'Repeat exactly what I tell you to say.'

Why would anyone comply with that condescension?


Not much different than:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8783595/Louisville-store-owner-says-wasnt-intimidated-free-man-BLM-mob-tried-him.html

Michael said...

Seems to me "stand back and stand by" means you can be there but don't get into confrontations. "Stand down" is essentially a military term and not necessarily a common idiom. Also "stand by" is cousin to "stand idly by," which means hang around but don't do anything.

hombre said...

Perhaps in the next debate we can skip the DNC/leftmediaswine made up white supremacy blather and focus on the corruption of federal law enforcement by the Obama Administration and how Biden and his schoolteacher wife accumulated a net worth of $9 million (Forbes).

Man With a Spoon said...

>When the right wing vigilantes refuse to accept the results, the Donald's comments will be more apparent.

And when this doesn't happen, you will pay absolutely zero price for this utter lie, and will indeed have uttered about 30 new ones in the meantime.

Jupiter said...

"Is there any evidence that Proud Boys do bad things?"

Well, yeah. I believe the original idea of Proud Boys, which was started by Gavin McInnes, was a slightly ironic pride in masculinity. But not altogether surprisingly, when young men who are proud of their masculinity encounter soyboi Lefties who want to fight, they are happy to oblige them. Which is, by general consensus, a bad thing. The NYPD arrested some Proud Boys for stomping some Antifa pussies who tried to roust them.

Jupiter said...

If Donald Trump had wanted to delight me, he could have grabbed Joe Biden by the shoulders and shaken him like a dog shakes a rat. And then maybe used him as a club to smack Chris Wallace around. But delighting me was not his goal last night. He is certainly smart enough to know that his goal in these debates must be to appeal to people who have not already made up their minds. I hope he is smart enough to know how to do that. I have no idea how you appeal to people so stupid they would consider voting for Joe Biden for President of the United States of America, or whether he was successful last night. But that is the question to be considered, not whether he appealed to sane people.

Jupiter said...

buwaya said...
"Why not openly organize a conservative militia?"

Because we still have hopes of winning this election.

n.n said...

Trump doesn't operate in the box constructed by Progressives, and doesn't play the semantic games enjoyed through liberal license.

n.n said...

the concept of White Fragility, you, Ann Althouse are a white supremacist and a racist

The Jews are xenophobic. The Jews have too much. Jew privilege. The Jews can be Planned... selected in abortion chambers, a progressive path.

That said, diversity (i.e. color judgment), not limited to racism, breeds adversity.

I'm Full of Soup said...

race race race race race race race race race race race race race race race race
race race race race race race race race race race race race race race race race

That is all the media and the Dems can chirp about. It's so tiresome and just serves to divide us. But they are too frigging dumb or dug-in to discuss most other topics.

And I note Althouse's 1st 2 posts today yakked about race as well. Yet I know Althouse is far from dumb. Maybe from here to Mars far.

wholelottasplainin' said...

320Busdriver said...
Wallace, to his credit, pressed Trump HARD on what HE can/will do about the flood of mail in ballots that are going out into the cities by the millions.

Trump did not answer, because there is no good answer to the lefts cheating, win at all costs deceptions.
*********************

Wallace, to his ever-lasting shame, did NOT contest Biden's ridiculous response that we've been engaged in mail-in voting for years, DELIBERATELY conflating it with absentee ballots, a whole different thing.

And to his eternal self-damnation Wallace offered up his question about climate change in a manner that clearly PRESUMED that California's fires were due to man-made climate change, utterly ignoring the stupid policies that the Sierra Club enviros have forced upon the state and California's forest policies.

And the clincher for me was Wallace's utter SILENCE about the months of riots in Portland, Milwaukee, Seattle and elsewhere, and his slimy attempt to counter Trump's comment---that the worst rioting is occurring in Dem-controlled cities---with a **one-day incident** in South Tulsa, where the Mayor is a Republican.

He is dead to me. He should start doing shows with Behar on "The Spew".

mandrewa said...

The whole idea that it is 'racist' to be proud to be American or to be proud of American history is profoundly offensive. Of course this is the message of the far left and ethnic racists of various sorts.

Every time I meet such a person I know I'm dealing with a Nazi, i.e. a person that would have found an excuse to support the National Socialists or the Communists or both if that person had been alive in the 1930s.

mikee said...

As a white, old, heterosexual male of American birth, I have been told for over a decade that I am inherently, irredeemably, even unconsciously RAAAAAAAAAAAACIST. And that my white privilege, i.e., being born white, must be denigrated, repented, even repudiated.

If the asshats pushing this critical race theory expect me for one moment to believe this codswaddle, then why on earth would they expect a RAAAAAAAAAAACIST to bow down before them, to seek subservient forgiveness for being born white? I see the whole caboodle as a simple power/money/publicity grab by a dedicated cadre of marxist inspired, marketing directed, megalomaniacs and their followers. To hell with them all.

I'm Not Sure said...

"You can ask if he should have been there with a rifle, but then you also need to ask, why were the mobs of lefties there with guns, bombs, bricks, and fire?"

The lefties brought guns, bombs, bricks, and fire. And it would have been peaceful if a teenager with a rifle wasn't there, trying to help people protect their lives and property from those guns, bombs, bricks, and fire.

It all makes sense if you're an idiot or a democrat (but I repeat myself).

James Pawlak said...


The most dangerous internal enemies of the USA are now NOT "White Racists" (ie Less than ~0.05% of Americans). They are those "others" who are murdering police officers and other law-abiding citizens, inflicting mob attacks, burning down parts of our (ie Democrat ruled) cities (eg Minneapolis) and other likes acts-of-treason. Those "others" are grossly supported by the core members of Biden's Part

madAsHell said...

Hi firstname! I'm Dylan, volunteering for Joe Biden and Democrats. President Trump is trying to bully his way through this election, telling white supremacists to "stand by." We're turning out in record numbers to make our voices impossible to ignore. Can you join us to call voters?

This is the text message I received this afternoon. I find unsolicited text messages with my name.......CREEPY!!

Bunkypotatohead said...

I'd rather see the perfessor give us some neutral cruelty.
Black humor seems the only way to cope with the situation at hand. Two candidates who can barely stitch together a couple words into an understandable sentence. It doesn't give much hope for the future of the USA. We seem to be approaching the state of Idiocracy.

Leora said...

Biden's the one who suggested the Proud Boys, not Trump. Does the transcript say otherwise?

I think it's not proven that The Proud Boys are a white supremacist organization. They seem to have a lot of members of color. The guy charged for assault in NY has a black wife. Their president is a black man. They state that they are defenders of Western Culture. I'm not a fan of organizations that like to get into physical confrontations on the street, but they are hated for annoying Antifa and BLM, not for any anti-black or anti-immigrant rhetoric.

Conservative ideals said...

One big issue here is that the left is constantly mischaracterizing groups on the right as really bad or racist when they aren't either. I am not familiar with the proud boys, but my understanding is that they are dedicated to limited government. Their website specifically says they are anti-racists, and from what I gather reading about them, they are over 10% black, and led by a black former cuban. In what way are they racist in the traditional sense of the word? or are they racist in the newer "doesn't agree with progressives" sense of the word?

Skippy Tisdale said...

The Proud Boys are a major organization, proving that the USA is inherently racist. Antifa? Just an idea.

Don said...

White Supremacy and Climate Change. Two expressions which have no meaning except to the Left.

Leora said...

Bleachbit, the sheriff needs to let them go if the District Attorney won't prosecute. Now that members of the sheriff's department and the police department are deputized as federal officers, things may start to be a little different.

I don't think we need a right wing militia. I think we need a revolt at the local ballot box in the those localities where the elected officials won't enforce law and order. Alternately, enough people will vote with their feet including their law enforcement personnel so that the government collapses to be eventually taken over by their county or state authorities.

Tina Trent said...

The interesting thing about feminists is that they really grasped power structure.

If you have power, you have power. If you don't, you don't.

MD Greene said...

Somewhere Abraham Lincoln and Stephen Douglas are laughing, or crying, at the ignorance that passes for political debate in America today.

n.n said...

The Proud Boys are a major organization, proving that the USA is inherently racist. Antifa? Just an idea.

Some, Select Black Lives Matter is a major organization, funded by billions of dollars in private capital injections, and is not only inherently diversitist, but is also Pro-Choice, selective, opportunistic.

BidenFamilyTaxPayerFundedCrackPipe said...

Antifa are the white left. the real racists.

BidenFamilyTaxPayerFundedCrackPipe said...

Antifa are the white left. Antifa are the actual racists.

The Godfather said...

Imagine if Trump had responded this way to Wallace's question: Mike, as you know, I have said time and time again that I want ALL Americans of ALL races to prosper, respect each other, and get along together. I deplore and reject White racism, as I do Black racism, Brown racism, and every other form of racism. Can't we all agree on that? Mr. Vice President, Mr. Wallace, will you join me in this, to deplore all forms of racism and say they have no place in our country?

I know, Trump is too heavy handed to have done that, but isn't it in fact what his actions show that he believes?

Bruce Hayden said...

“The whole idea that it is 'racist' to be proud to be American or to be proud of American history is profoundly offensive. Of course this is the message of the far left and ethnic racists of various sorts.”

They are deliberately confusing race with culture. And then try to treat different cultures as if they are equivalent. Nope. We have one of the best cultures in the world, if not the best. Education, hard work, diligence, etc, and you can be successful. Black culture? Not so much. One reason why the black longevity rate is that much lower than the white and Asian one, is that so many blacks, and esp young black males between 15 and 25, are killing so many other blacks. Is a culture that results in half of all crimes committed in this country, including roughly half of the murders, by about 1/8 of the population functional? Or dysfunctional? The boys grow up without their fathers in the household, and as a result often turn into street thugs. The girls meanwhile, lacking paternal security, find security elsewhere - often by having kids instead of graduating from high school? Face it - black culture sucks, condemning so many in the black community to follow the dysfunctional steps of their parents. This culture is supposed equal, if not superior, to ours. Not even close.

Let me add that the left does the same, to some extent, for Muslim culture, which is so fatalistic that one tiny country, Israel, has many times the number of science and medicine Nobel Prizes, despite better than 100x population advantage for the Muslims. Muslim misogynism has resulted in white slavery and no-go zones across Europe. Another dysfunctional culture, nowhere competitive with ours.

Gospace said...

Kevin said...
Shorter debate from last night:

Trump: Here’s everything I’ve done in 47 months. Joe’s done nothing in 47 years.

Biden: But he has no plan! I have many detailed plans, none of which came from Bernie Sanders.

Trump: What are your plans for appointing judges, packing the Supreme Court, and eliminating the filibuster?

Biden: I was explicitly told not to discuss those plans.

Trump: What a loser. I’ve got 80 minutes left with this guy?

Wallace: Mr. Trump, about white supremacy..


Having read much commentary about the debate, but not watching it because I much prefer written communication to oral (except in emergencies, like shouting "Fire!" or "Duck!") this seems like a correct distillation of the debate.

Tina Trent said...

It's all fun and word games if you're safe from the career-destroying false accusations of racism currently aimed by the leftist mobs at Trump supporters. Look at the lies in the Times today about Trump endorsing white nationalism. Don't look away.

The Soviet structuralist poets tried the same deflection into phonetics.

Funny story: they ended up in the same gulags.

Maybe it's time to pick a side.

wendybar said...

Kevin said...
Shorter debate from last night:

Trump: Here’s everything I’ve done in 47 months. Joe’s done nothing in 47 years.

Biden: But he has no plan! I have many detailed plans, none of which came from Bernie Sanders.

Trump: What are your plans for appointing judges, packing the Supreme Court, and eliminating the filibuster?

Biden: I was explicitly told not to discuss those plans.

Trump: What a loser. I’ve got 80 minutes left with this guy?

Wallace: Mr. Trump, about white supremacy...

9/30/20, 10:54 AM

Perfect. This sums it all up.

hstad said...

"...The Proud Boys are a major organization, proving that the USA is inherently racist..."

"...Black Professor states Proud Boys are not White Supremists?"
But the MSM know more because their 'memes' demand it - dealing in "fake news" by dishing out propoganda. "...Mr. Reilly said that about 10% to 20% of Proud Boys activists are people of color, a diverse racial composition that is “extremely well-known in law enforcement,” based on his research..."
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/sep/30/wilfred-reilly-insists-proud-boys-arent-white-supr/

Alex said...

Forget about Trump, he's gone. Are all Republicans post November 3rd going to be forced to denounce 'white supremacy' 10x a day?