August 24, 2020

Yesterday in Wisconsin...




ADDED:

UPDATE: Professor Tribe deleted his tweet, but you can still see what the text of it was: "Looks a lot like first-degree murder to me."

I don't know all the reasons why Tribe chose to delete, but I assume one of them is that the man who was shot — Jacob Blake — hasn't died.

From the NYT article about the shooting (that went up at 6:26 p.m. EDT):

The police offered little detail about what had happened in the shooting, saying only that an officer had shot Mr. Blake while responding to a domestic incident.... Mr. Blake, 29, was in stable condition at a nearby hospital on Monday....

Benjamin Crump, a lawyer for the family, said in an interview that he had been told that Mr. Blake was attempting to intervene in an argument between two women when the police arrived....

The Wisconsin attorney general, Josh Kaul, vowed to “vigorously and fully investigate the facts of this case,” but said he was not ready to comment on the details, including information about the officers on the scene.... Though Mr. Kaul, a Democrat, is leading an independent investigation, he said the decision to prosecute the case would be made by the local prosecutor. The Kenosha County district attorney, Michael D. Graveley, said his office would decide whether to press charges based on the evidence gathered by the outside investigators....

Governor Evers announced that he was calling state legislators to a special session next week to consider measures on police accountability and transparency. The measures were first put forth by Mr. Evers’s administration in June after the killings of George Floyd and Breonna Taylor, but were not taken up by the Legislature....

157 comments:

rehajm said...

There is nothing Laurence Tribe is not an expert in...

Unknown said...

I guess he would be the first person to declare innocent until proven guilty. But not when there are democrat talking points to be made. You’ve befouled yourself enough Tribe.

n.n said...

Nah, just a white man, a brown man, a white brown man, a woman, a child, a baby. Diversity normalizes adversity. One step forward, two steps backward.

Lucid-Ideas said...

Looks like he tried to get into his vehicle to retrieve god know what. Looks like Police 101 to me.

Lem said...

Maybe it's not my place to give advice but...

Link

At least until it comes down... see the new Antifa tactic.

Joe Smith said...

They should have been able to tackle him to the ground before he opened the car door.

Once he opened the door and reached inside I don't know what else he expected to happen.

Does anyone have audio of the cops and suspect? Cops might have said, 'if you get in the car we'll shoot you.' Suspect might have said, 'I'm getting my gun.'

Either way, the guy who was shot is a fucking moron.

What don't black people (and others who get shot by police) understand about putting your hands on your damn head?

Isn't this part of 'The Talk' that black parents (75% single moms) give their children?

I Have Misplaced My Pants said...

Obviously they thought he was going for a weapon.

I find it disgusting that the video taper’s reaction sounded more like “gotcha” than horror that a human had just died.

Todd said...

That did not appear to be handled well at all. The video is short and does not show what was going on before this BUT based on the actions of those in the video, that seems extreme. The victim walked at a steady, deliberate pace. Was not running. I saw at least three officers on the scene. They could not have tackled the guy? The officer had to shoot him in the back that many times?

Dave Begley said...

The police, at the time of the incident, didn't know he was unarmed. He could have been reaching for a gun in his car. In another incident, he was waving a gun in a bar.

Evers better call out the National Guard tonight and through the weekend in Kenosha, Madison and Milwaukee. Otherwise, rioting.

I thought there would be riots in Milwaukee this summer but not the week after the DNC.

Yancey Ward said...

Yes, a taser would have been more appropriate there. However, without a taser, I might well have shot him, too, once he reached into the vehicle. There is no way to know he doesn't have gun in the SUV.

MeatPopscicle1234 said...

Unlike the George Floyd killing, the use of deadly force in this scenario appears a lot more justifiable. From what I'm reading, the guy had a warrant for his arrest, a history of assaulting officers, shrugged off the taser they tried using, repeatedly refused to comply with orders to get down on the ground, then reached into his vehicle, allegedly for a weapon.

I also read that just a week earlier another police officer in the same department was killed by a criminal with a gun. So I think the officer's actions in this case appear within the bounds of reasonableness.

MayBee said...

He shouldn't be dead. At the same time, I just watch this saying to myself "stop stop stop stop moving away from the cops. Stop getting in the car". Why why why would you respond that way to a cop?

D.D. Driver said...

I hate to be persnickety with the esteemed professor, but there is a very, very important element to the crime of murder that I don't believe exists.

Hint: it's the single most important element of "murder," even before we get to mens rea.

Joe Smith said...

Oh, and Tribe is a brain-dead fool. This is the man that liberals wanted on the Supreme Court?

He sees a 20-second video from across the street, no audio, one angle, and proclaims his verdict.

It just proves that he has always been an empty suit (or robe)...

Mike said...

It might be murder, but it's not first-degree murder.

brylun said...

When was the last time Kenosha had a Republican mayor?

chuck said...

Leave it to Tribe to settle all doubts, I'm now convinced the police were justified.

wild chicken said...

"saw at least three officers on the scene."

But one was a woman, so

Char Char Binks, Esq. said...

It’s time to wipe them out.

Wince said...

Troubling video if there was no weapon in the vehicle.

But Tribe's grandstanding is irresponsible.

Kevin said...

Where is the list to determine if this black person's life mattered?

I'm thinking it must be on Larry Tribe's hard drive.

Bay Area Guy said...

Larry Tribe -- a leftwing armchair activist posing as sober scholar.

Fuck that dude.

Sane folks would wait for the facts to emerge, listen to both sides, gather the evidence, look as the context -- before rioting and trashing the city.

Matt Sablan said...

I am of the opinion that my opinion can hold on for a bit longer to get all the information needed to make an informed opinion.

Bob Boyd said...

It does look bad and maybe it is.
We can't see what the subject is doing in the car. Was he trying to get in the car or was he reaching for something in the car?
Because the door obstructs the view, we can't say for sure he was unarmed when the shooting started.
It's best to take a wait and see attitude to these things. More video is likely to surface including police bodycam footage.

robother said...

I mean, its not like this guy has a history of brandishing guns at cops and other people...oh, wait.

Crimso said...

"It might be murder"

I don't think it's even that, yet.

pacwest said...

Coming soon to a town near you.

Earnest Prole said...

Doesn't first-degree murder require someone to, you know, actually die?

Laurence Tribe is dumber than a sack of hammers.

D.D. Driver said...

"He shouldn't be dead."

He isn't. He is still alive. Which make a murder charge really hard to prosecute.

Kevin said...

Looks a lot like first-degree murder to me.

"a lot like" is doing "a lot of" the work in that sentence.

Joe Smith said...

In regards to the rioting, at some point Trump may need to send in federal troops and start making arrests.

Try these assholes in federal court and start sending them to 'pound me in the ass' prison for twenty or so years, no parole.

That's the only way this idiocy ends.

Real American said...

I'd rather be the victim of false arrest than a justified police shooting. Do what the cops say and figure it all out later.

William said...

The police don't look good in this video, but as MeatPopsicle observes above, there might be justification. Let the facts come out, and, if the officers involved are culpable, let them be punished. That's one way of handling the situation. Riots, demonstrations, arson are another way.

Michael K said...

Domestic disturbance calls are probably the most dangerous calls cops get.

Jon Burack said...

Amazing how quickly Tribe knows what happened? Is this what they teach in law school? Where was Tribe the other day when a Hispanic man admittedly and purposefully rode his pick up truck into a white man riding a Harley because he just knew Harley riders are Trump right-wingers and he wanted to kill one? I guess Tribe didn't hear about that one, because so little media attention was given to it. Anyway, I guess it would be quaint to ask anyone to wait more than ten seconds to decide what this shows and what it does not show and what actually happened.

AllenS said...

What if he was in his vehicle to grab his gun? Would Tribe had felt better if he had shot one of more of the cops? How about if he drove into the cops with his vehicle, Tribe, would you still feel that way?

Francisco D said...

Does anyone wonder if this Black man felt justified in completely disobeying the cops and threatening them by getting into the car?

Does anyone wonder if current Black culture is one of forcing cops to make these life or death decisions?

Because this fella did not choose wisely, we will be hearing about this forever from the usual idiots.

Char Char Binks, Esq. said...

Police — DO NOT answer any call involving black-on-black crime, or any domestic dispute involving any black “person”. If you accidentally find yourself in such a case, turn, walk away, run if necessary, but GET OUT. Have you been asleep for the past decade!?

Mattman26 said...

I will bet you benjamins to bratwursts that when the audio is released, they were screaming at him not to go/reach into the car.

Maybee wonders: Why why why would you respond that way to a cop?

Indeed. Maybe when parents of young black men are having the famous "talk" with their kids about dealing with the cops, they could tell them to calmly obey police orders.

Think of how many deaths could have been avoided. Michael Brown, George Floyd, this guy, and I bet that list could go on and on.

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...

That black guy going into his car - what was he doing?
No obeying commands and getting his gun?

yeah - the collective let are fine with that.

Temujin said...

This is all madness. Just fucking madness. The fires are lit everywhere just waiting for the next dousing of gasoline. And sure enough, here come the Kenosha Police. This seems indefensible. I cannot imagine this officer's explanation for holding the guy's shirt while putting 7- count 'em- 7 shots into his back.

I'm sure there's more to this, but what I see is a cop who was untrained to be out there. And there are too many of these poorly trained cops still around, while the good cops, the ones who know how to handle a situation, are leaving in droves.

And the streets are on fire. And another man is dead. Maybe he was a bad dude. Maybe not. But I don't know if 7 shots in the back is the answer for anyone.

Guildofcannonballs said...

Who died?

Dr Weevil said...

First of all, the man is not dead, and not likely to die (he's in serious, not critical, condition) which makes it even more obvious that Tribe is himself (brain-)dead. Here's the unattributed story from my Twitter sidebar:

"Wisconsin authorities investigate police shooting that left Black man in 'serious condition' and prompted protests

"A Black man, identified as Jacob Blake, is in a serious condition after police reportedly tasered and shot him several times after he apparently tried to break up a dispute. Videos and photos show protests at the scene and around Kenosha. The Wisconsin Department of Justice's Division of Criminal Investigation is looking into the officer-involved shooting."

Note that the "protests" have burned down a church and burned out a car dealership, which means they're not protests, they're riots. Why do journalists (and famous law professors - not you, Ann!) feel so comfortable telling bald-faced lies? I wonder if the shot "seven times" is also a lie, counting the tasings and maybe just padding the numbers with totally made-up stuff. I also wonder if some of the "in the back" is actually "in the buttocks", where an embedded bullet is far less likely to be fatal. I'm not sure it's even possible for someone to be shot in the back seven times with bullets and still be in serious condition.

Marshall Rose said...

The suspect, Jacob Blake is still alive according to news reports updated about an hour ago, serious condition, but still alive.

That may change, but as of now it cannot be classified as murder.

Tribe is a garbage person spreading garbage info inflaming already heated passions.

He is basically yelling fire in a crowded theater.

Char Char Binks, Esq. said...

One minor quibble—. UU is not a church. It’s an intersectional collective of Marxists, LBGTQWERTYUIOP activists, SCIENCE!-loving Gaia acolytes, and negro-worshipping guilty white NPC. Dr. Beth Potter and Robin Carre are among its martyrs.

n.n said...

Unlike the George Floyd killing

There is no evidence that Floyd was killed. His episode preceded constraint. The probable causes of death were multiple drugs overdose, cardiovascular disease, and stressors (e.g. criminal activity).

bleh said...

Tribe is a disgrace. He’s not fit to teach the traffic laws to teenager student drivers, much less be a law professor at an elite university. His derangement the last 3-4 years has been something to behold.

Honestly, I can’t think of a time in the Trump Era when he’s said something insightful or contributed to a debate. He’s just inflaming and spewing hatred and sometimes pushing conspiracy theories.

Bill, Republic of Texas said...

For once I agree with Lawrence Tribe.

Mike Sylwester said...

Joe Smith at 11:13 AM
They should have been able to tackle him to the ground before he opened the car door.

He was carrying a hook-shaped knife.

Mattman26 said...

I didn't realize the guy was still alive. Darkly hilarious that Tribe has pronounced it murder.

Wince says: Troubling video if there was no weapon in the vehicle.

I'm pretty sure if you're the cop and if he's disobeying an order not to to into the vehicle,
you're not required to wait and find out what he's planning to get or do.

Kai Akker said...

"Unlike the George Floyd killing," [MeatPopsicle]

What distinction are you making? The officers arresting Floyd did not use lethal force. The reports show Floyd was dying from a drug overdose when the whole arrest began. That is why he kept saying "I can't breathe" long before he was put under physical restraint. Read George Parry's careful analysis, it's on his knowledgeisgood.net website.

All these cases are immediately prejudged. Have any of the initial assessments been right? None that I know of, so it would be silly to assume that this Kenosha one is as simple as Tribe's shoot-from-the-hip summary.

Gerrard787 said...

I'm not commenting until Paul Krugman weighs in.

gilbar said...

BLM arson attacks overnight in Kenosha, Wisc. spread to the Bradford Community Church, a far-left universalist religious organization. The church’s sign in support of #BlackLivesMatter was consumed in flames.

ANY progressive white wisconsin women,
who don't hang their white heads in Shame; and voluntarily commit suicide,
need to realize, that THEY are the racists!
Igna! I'm talking To YOU! DO THE RIGHT THING!

Bill, Republic of Texas said...

Now I've read the comments, I'll amend my comment to say it looks like attempted first degree murder (if the guy lives).

We know have the death penalty for contempt of cop.

Renee said...

Is anyone allowed to wait prior to passing judgement on the situation?

n.n said...

Floyd, Brown, Martin et al part deux? The circumstantial evidence in the video can be considered during an investigation, a part of due process. No more warlock judgments, witch hunts, protests.

Freeman Hunt said...

Public figures should be more responsible than to make pronouncements about facts they couldn't possibly know, especially in the current highly changed environment.

Freeman Hunt said...

charged

rhhardin said...

It's entertainment. For blacks, status contests and defying authority. For whites, burning and breaking stuff with a feeling of moral superiority. For everybody else, the violence channel.

Kai Akker said...

BLM, waaay better than the KKK at creating new racists!

Mattman26 said...

Now I've heard the audio, and I'll take a wild guess that if you had full context, it would be apparent (to the guy that ended up with bullets in him) that "Don't you do it, don't you do it motherf*cker" was a reference to reaching or getting in to the car.

rhhardin said...

I don't think wait until he turns with a gun he's gone to fetch is a good policy if you plan to stay alive. Cops have to defend against threats every time, criminals only have to do it that once. So cops are more conservative about risks.

rhhardin said...

Resisting arrest is a really bad policy. And they act so surprised.

n.n said...

They could have restrained him and sparked protests 2.0. Either way, due process dies, and social contagion progresses, with a video clip, without context, posted on Twitter.

gilbar said...

Lucid-Ideas said...
Looks like he tried to get into his vehicle to retrieve god know what. Looks like Police 101 to me.


my leftie friends crucified me for suggesting that George Floyd would still be alive, if he'd complied
They LITERALLY told me, that the minn police would have killed him; no MATTER WHAT he'd do
they seriously believed that!
but; you know what? [and, here i'm talking from personal experience*]
if a cop orders you to do something, and you comply; you get shot less often

personal experience* my leftie friends told me that when Officer Tom Oxley of the Ames PD pulled a gun on me, and ordered me to the gun; that THE REASON WHY he didn't shoot me was "because i wasn't black".... and the fact that i fell to the ground like a sack of flour was completely irrelevant (TO THEM)

Leland said...

Perhaps the police should have left him to continue assaulting his family. At this point, I'm more for federalism everyday, and the folks in Wisconsin can decide if the officers were wrong and if BLM was right in response. It doesn't even have to be one was and was not, both could be right or wrong. I simply prefer not adjudicating these things via public online mobs versus the court system, that used to function well in our country, BO (before Obama).

Jim at said...

That's the only way this idiocy ends.

Nope. It ends when the people who've had more than enough of this shit take matters into their own hands.

gilbar said...

your governor is an idiot!
Wisconsin Governor Tony Evers issued a statement...
While we do not have all of the details yet, what we know for certain is that he is not the first Black man or person to have been shot or injured or mercilessly killed at the hands of individuals in law enforcement in our state or our country.


what we know for certain is that he is not the first person to have been shot for failure to comply
fify!

TreeJoe said...

When I read the governor's rush to declare police actions wrong and as murdering a black man because of his color - which is what Evers words are clearly meant to convey - I knew that the governor was inciting hatred against the police. Guilt before innocence. And mob mentality.

I have no freaking clue what I'm seeing in this video besides a man getting up from being surrounded by police officers, ignoring their commands, ignoring the fact they have guns pointed at him, resisting their efforts, and opening his car door and reaching inside.

I've learned from the Floyd video, in which my reaction for a solid month was to say he was murdered by Chauvin, to wait until the evidence comes out. Chauvin may have murdered Floyd, but after seeing the entire body cam video I see officers trying to get an incredibly drugged up guy to communicate with them, they try to take care of him, and I see him saying he can't breathe well while no one is touching him. The thing that always bothered me about the Chauvin/first Floyd video is neither Chauvin nor Floyd were exerting themselves. The ME's autopsy seems to confirm that on Chauvin's part as well.

doctrev said...

Kai Akker said...

All these cases are immediately prejudged. Have any of the initial assessments been right? None that I know of, so it would be silly to assume that this Kenosha one is as simple as Tribe's shoot-from-the-hip summary.

8/24/20, 12:03 PM

The assessments weren't wrong, they were malicious fraud, perpetrated by the Tribe types to foment race war.

DavidUW said...

maybe cops should also get lassoes.

mandrewa said...

So I've watched the video and I believe the man was reaching for a gun. If nothing else it's the way he surged forward to either get something from below the front seat or in the lower bin on the front door. This was just after the police officer grabbed his shirt/shoulder to try prevent him from opening the car door.

I can't imagine what else it would be that a man would so obviously and transparently risk his life to get.

It's dismaying that the police officer fired so many shots and I'm amazed the guy is still alive but it seems like I've seen this many times before. It's a combination of adrenaline and fear and the fact that this is what police officers, with perhaps good reason, are trained to do.

Amadeus 48 said...

I have no problems with this action by police. The guy had assaulted police before and was going for something in that car. I believe he had already been tazed to no effect.

My view would be different if the cops had asked him for his auto registration and proof of insurance.

HoodlumDoodlum said...

"Troubling video if there was no weapon in the vehicle."

The cops should have known he was reaching in to grab something other than a weapon--if they didn't use their mind reading powers nor their ability to see into the future then that's on them. Everyone knows cops are supposed to wait until the guy draws a gun and starts firing before they shoot--after all there is so much time to see and assess.

Unrelated but check out this video of what happens when the cop has a Taser in their hand and a was just "walking away" not complying. Plenty of time to react, right?

mikee said...

The guy walking away from a group of police officers concerns me. Have they not been trained how to subdue an unarmed individual, individually or as a group of officers?

The man could have been approached by all officers, surrounded, cuffed, then questioned while under police control. Why'd they let him walk away?

Matt said...

Lol! Imagine being so fucking stupid you die from failure to follow simple instructions.

Seems to happen a lot in the 'black community. Probably just coincidence. *shrug emoji*

Lyle said...

Don't resist being arrested and this doesn't happen. People are very, very stupid.

mandrewa said...

"He was carrying a hook-shaped knife."

If true, then there was already legitimate cause to shoot Jacob Blake even before he went to the car. If he was carrying a knife, then the police officers should have been further back, as the police officer that tried to physically stop Blake from getting in the car was already risking his life. It is not reasonable for us, and I mean all of us, to ask police officers to do that.

Char Char Binks, Esq. said...

Tem, does holding onto a man’s shirt prevent him from grabbing or shooting a gun? Try it and get back to us.

rhhardin said...

The loud and clear message to America is coming out : don't live near black people.

n.n said...

if a cop orders you to do something, and you comply; you get shot less often

There has to be probable cause (e.g. assault, wielding a scalpel, a sword) to resist, let alone (e.g. molestation) to take affirmative action. Hands down, don't shoot, an incident in SLC involving a white guy and black officer, would not justify elective abortion, but the DA managed to torture the video evidence to proclaime otherwise. We'll have to wait for the context for this visual excerpt.

rhhardin said...

If a black person resists arrest the police should themselves burn down a store as part of the police service. Cut out the middleman.

Tom T. said...

Reportedly the police did try to taser him first, unsuccessfully. Blake's lawyer says that Blake's three sons were in the car, and that he was going to check on them. I have not seen any statement by his attorney affirming that there was no gun in the car, which inevitably raises suspicion that there was.

n.n said...

Wisconsin Governor Tony Evers issued a statement... While we do not have all of the details yet, what we know for certain is that he is not the first Black man or person to have been shot or injured or mercilessly killed at the hands of individuals in law enforcement in our state or our country.

A warlock judgment, stoking diversity for leverage (e.g. political) and profit (e.g. Some, Select Black Lives Matter), and perhaps a protest, too.

Bruce Hayden said...

“Unlike the George Floyd killing, the use of deadly force in this scenario appears a lot more justifiable. From what I'm reading, the guy had a warrant for his arrest, a history of assaulting officers, shrugged off the taser they tried using, repeatedly refused to comply with orders to get down on the ground, then reached into his vehicle, allegedly for a weapon.”

That comment about George Floyd shows a significant lack of understanding of the underlying facts. The reality is that he was probably a walking dead man when the police originally approached. He was probably already showing symptoms of fentanyl OD at the time. This was probably compounded by recent bout of COVID-19 and Sickle Cell Disease. My lay guess is that the fentanyl caused his breathing to be suppressed, causing a CO2 buildup in his blood that caused his red blood cells to sickle, and thus reduced the blood flow, and thus O2, to his heart, that ultimately stopped. Several things may have increased the stress, and, thus, the sickling. His recent COVID-19 seems to have freaked him out about being unable to breath, as well as possibly affecting some of his outer lung tissue. And, of course, being arrested and restrained. Very possibly, the only way that they could have saved him was giving him naloxone to counteract the fentanyl, and a lot of hydration to counteract the sickling of his red blood cells.

The officers suspected a drug OD, which was why they did some of what they did. He was taken out of their vehicle because he was freaking out, claiming claustrophobia and inability to breathe, which is considered good practice. He was positioned so that he couldn’t throw up, then aspirate his vomit. That was part of why he was immobilized the way he was - to prevent him from aspirating his possible vomit. Their problem was that they guessed at what he was ODing on, and guessed wrongly. Paramedics might have guessed correctly. Likely ER docs and RNs would have. But police? Because of the apparent ODing, paramedics were called, but only Code 2. It was later upgraded to Code 3, but Floyd’s heart stopped while the paramedics were still a block or two away. They arrived to find one officer doing CPR, which he continued to do In the ambulance. Overall, probably a fairly text book police response, that caused the four of them to be fired and charged for crimes that they very likely did not commit. Floyd probably would more accurately be described as a COVID-19 fatality, than a victim of police brutality.

gerry said...

Tribe is a garbage person spreading garbage info inflaming already heated passions.

He is basically yelling fire in a crowded theater.


He is a Democrat (if not officially and politically, behaviorally). He is doing what he is supposed to do.

Michael K said...

Char Char Binks, Esq. said...
Police — DO NOT answer any call involving black-on-black crime, or any domestic dispute involving any black “person”. If you accidentally find yourself in such a case, turn, walk away, run if necessary, but GET OUT. Have you been asleep for the past decade!?


I'm a little surprised that cops have not figured this out yet. They are learning.

Mary Beth said...

"Looks a lot like first-degree murder to me."

Doesn't he have to be dead for it to be "murder"?

Rabel said...

Unless he saw a weapon in the car, that's a bad shoot. Officer will likely be charged.

On Aug. 8 a Kenosha officer was shot while investigating an auto burglary. That was certainly in the mind of the officer in this situation. But he fucked up and he's lucky the guy lived.

I'm sure some of you have differing opinions.

Bruce Hayden said...

“ what we know for certain is that he is not the first person to have been shot for failure to comply
fify!”

There is a distinction between not complying and doing so in such a way that could endanger the cops.

This kinda came up with Big Mike Brown and Officer Owen Wilson. Wilson could probably legally have shot Brown as he tried to escape, but only because Wilson had just seen Brown commit a serious violent felony (attempted murder of Wilson himself). If Brown and his buddy, Johnson, had fled the scene, upon being initially stopped and questioned by Wilson, he couldn’t legally have shot Brown for fleeing, since all he had at that tie against the two of them was a suspicion of a strong armed robbery of the cigarillos. It took all he could do was tail them, or chase them down and try to apprehend them. The difference is that Wilson was a witness to Brown assaulting a police officer and trying to kill him, both of which are classified as a violent felonies, each with a standard 20 year prison sentence. The theory seemed to be that police shouldn’t be penalized for preventing such criminals from escaping and further endangering the public. In the end though, this was moot, because Brown turned and repeatedly tried to bull rush Wilson, justifying his use of lethal force as self defense. Wilson claimed to have repeatedly instructed Brown to stop and get down on the ground. But it wasn’t the not obeying his commands that got Brown (legally) killed, but that he continued trying to attack Wilson.

M Jordan said...

Need a body first, Professor.

HoodlumDoodlum said...

What's the big deal about reaching into your car when the police order you not to? Action at about 3:30 of that video, amazing how fast it happens.

CWJ said...

"Does anyone wonder if this Black man felt justified in completely disobeying the cops and threatening them by getting into the car?

Does anyone wonder if current Black culture is one of forcing cops to make these life or death decisions?"

We have a winner! Give that man a Waring blender. I've also wondered how much this brinkmanship is a contributing factor in provoking black on black shootings.

LA_Bob said...

The guy appears to walk off like he hasn't a care in the world, officer commands and drawn guns to the contrary. It's like he exudes a sense of "Black privilege" with regard to the police.

Think it might have anything to do with police standing down against rioters in Seattle, Portland, and Madison?

mandrewa said...

There is more footage of the riots, the looting, and an attempted murder of a police officer by an unknown person in this video: Matt Walsh: The truth about the police shooting in Wisconsin.

The looting and other footage begins at about 23 minutes in. Skip everything before then.

I haven't watched all of it, but I'm up to Tony Evers tweets, and, my god, what a piece of shit that man is.

Francisco D said...

Mary Beth said...

Doesn't he have to be dead for it to be "murder"?

Not really, given the way leftists either stretch the truth or make outright lies.

My guess is that it was a mistake by the cops who should have stopped him before he got to the car.

The big issue is why people think it is OK to put cops in a position to make very quick life or death decisions.

Michael K said...

I'm sure some of you have differing opinions.

Yes, there are sane persons here.

n.n said...

Lotsa cop worshippers here.

Rather a lack of warlock judges and protestors. Due process is a civil right.

Darrell said...

A mostly peaceful arson.

Jupiter said...

Blogger Rabel said...
"Unless he saw a weapon in the car, that's a bad shoot. Officer will likely be charged."

Oh, the officer will undoubtedly be charged. That Evers piece o'work will see to it. But as the two videos linked in this thread show clearly, this was not a bad shoot. This was action taken in the nick of time.

gilbar said...

Todd pointed out,that...
The victim walked at a steady, deliberate pace. Was not running. I saw at least three officers on the scene. They could not have tackled the guy?


i think THIS is The Problem
in the olden days, this guy would have been knocked down WAY before he got to the car
in the olden days, george floyd would have just been forced into the car; instead of the knee on the throat stuff. Cops have been instructed to avoid physical action; so their only option is: GUNS

Ken B said...

If you squint the sign reads “ Peace in our time”

n.n said...

Does anyone wonder if this Black man felt justified in completely disobeying the cops and threatening them by getting into the car?

Diversity breeds adversity.

Does anyone wonder if current Black culture is one of forcing cops to make these life or death decisions?

Not black culture, but social justice (i.e. "ethical" remedies), and political congruence. Some Select Black Lives Matters, Antifa, the Chicago mayor, Democrat politicians, and others in that axis are first-order forcings of catastrophic climate change. Fortunately, most people do not exercise liberal license to indulge diversity dogma, so the risk of progress is, perhaps not minimal, but contained.

That said, due process for the officers, due process for the Perp, no warlock judgments, not protests, whether it was Planned Perp or justified can be assessed and adjudicated.

Tom T. said...

Bob at 1:54. I suspect that the police may have interpreted his conduct as that of a man intent on shooting his way into suicide by cop.

pokerone said...

I have to think that, given the evidence, that Democrats are provoking the mentally ill to behave this way, certainly I see it in Antifa and BLM provocateurs at Trump rallies here in Massachusetts. Discuss.

gilbar said...

Lots of people here have responded to me, saying;
"Oh NO! the police can't shoot you just 'cause you failed to comply!"

which shows you are Missing my point; which is: they are FAR Less Likely to shoot IF you comply

The times i've been shot and killed by the police; i was seldom able to say:
WELL! you didn't follow correct procedure, So I'm NOT Dead!!!

actually, i've NEVER been shot and killed by the police; because i do EVERYTHING in my power to NOT get shot.
*complying
*hands in clear sight
*moving slow
*staying in car (or sidewalk), until ordered to move

When Officer Oxley drew down on me, i hadn't realized that there were ANY police (or criminals) around; until it was TOO LATE (as i walked into the middle of a crime seen). As SOON as i Did realize (which, was when i was looking down the barrel of his gun); i complied. IF he hadn't drawn his gun, i STILL would have fully complied... 'cause you live longer when you comply

{if Officer Oxley HAD shot me, he would have had some 'splaining to do. Fortunately for Tom, i was a white male motorcyclist; so he wouldn't have had MUCH 'splaining to do}

Char Char Binks, Esq. said...

mike, the cops didn’t LET him walk; he got away. He didn’t move particularly fast, but he didn’t have far to go. I hope he survives to shit his wheelchair for the next thirty years.

MeatPopscicle1234 said...

Kai Akker said...

Blogger Bruce Hayden said...

“Unlike the George Floyd killing..."

------

I don't care what the extenuating circumstances were... no LEO should be allowed to put their knee on the back of your neck for over 8 minutes. This is not an approved submission technique in MN, and the fact that Chauvin and Floyd knew each other and had a negative history, shows that Chauvin's actions were motivated by malice, not simply to "restrain" Floyd.

Once George Floyd was on the ground and had his hands bound behind him, Chauvin should have immediately gotten off his neck and called for paramedics. But instead he wanted to put George in "his place" for resisting. He may not have intentionally been trying to kill George, but his abuse of power and gross misconduct were definitely contributing factors...

Clues? said...

Poor job of restraining him on the ground. Wonder why ๐Ÿค”

MadTownGuy said...

It seems to me that things progressed relatively quickly from the shooting to the riots. Makes me wonder if there's some organizational activity predisposed to rally the troops and start the action.

"The Second Department of China’s People’s Liberation Army (PLA), which is the PLA’s intelligence unit, sent staff members from a large network company, with fake IDs, to China’s Consulate in Houston. Those technicians used a large video platform’s backend data to identify people who might participate in the Black Lives Matter (BLM) and ANTIFA’s protests and then created and sent them customized videos on how to organize riots and how to do promotions."

Tyrone Slothrop said...

Of course Tribe is speaking here not as a lawyer but as a Democrat hack, throwing gasoline on the bonfire of urban insurrection. If he were that cop's defense attorney, he'd get an acquittal and he knows it.

exiledonmainstreet, green-eyed devil said...

I thought there would be riots in Milwaukee this summer but not the week after the DNC.

8/24/20, 11:17 AM

Of course, they waited until after the convention.

The thugs didn't want to make their DNC fanboys look bad.

Douglas B. Levene said...

I watched the video. It looked like the decedent was ignoring police orders to stop and was getting in his car to drive away, and they shot him in the back just as he got in the car. Unless they saw him grabbing a gun off the front seat, it was a completely unjustified shooting. If they were just pissed off that he was ignoring their attempts to arrest him and trying to drive away, they could have just shot out his tires.

LA_Bob said...

Toml T. said, "I suspect that the police may have interpreted his conduct as that of a man intent on shooting his way into suicide by cop."

Another thing is how quickly Blake rounds that car, officers in pursuit, even though he's not running. Maybe this is another Rayshard Brooks situation, where the police think they have a cooperative subject, and then, WHAM! he pulls a surprise move.

Ugh! I shouldn't be speculating like this. We need MUCH more info.

Fernandinande said...

Wisconsin authorities investigate police shooting that left Black man in 'serious condition' and prompted protests

"A Black man,...
.

They sure don't want you to forget that the "victim" is BLACK, do they?

Howsoever -

"Jacob Blake, 24, of Racine, was charged Monday in Racine County Circuit Court with one felony count of resisting arrest causing a soft tissue injury to a police officer and one misdemeanor count each of carrying a concealed weapon, carrying a firearm while intoxicated, endangering safety-use of a dangerous weapon, and disorderly conduct.

...and pulled a black handgun.
...search of the SUV turned up a black handgun"

When he was arrested They sure didn't want you to know that he was BLACK, but they did want you to know the race of his gun for some reason.

Lem said...

Looks to me like Tribe deleted his tweet.

Big Mike said...

What if he was in his vehicle to grab his gun? Would Tribe had felt better if he had shot one of more of the cops?

@AllenS, Hell yes.

Rick said...

Todd said...
The victim walked at a steady, deliberate pace. Was not running. I saw at least three officers on the scene. They could not have tackled the guy?


Note how the analysis works. Tackling him is an unjustified use of force. But if not tackling him ends with a bad result then they should have tackled him. Police are always wrong.

Big Mike said...

I don’t know what Tribe sees, but what I see is attempted suicide by cop.

Be honest with us, Althouse. Con Law must be where law schools stash their dolts, isn’t it? Because, for one thing, doesn’t somebody actually have to be, you know, dead in order for it to be murder?

exiledonmainstreet, green-eyed devil said...

Char Char Binks, Esq. said...
One minor quibble—. UU is not a church. It’s an intersectional collective of Marxists, LBGTQWERTYUIOP activists, SCIENCE!-loving Gaia acolytes, and negro-worshipping guilty white NPC. Dr. Beth Potter and Robin Carre are among its martyrs.

8/24/20, 11:56 AM

The fact that it was burned down is grimly hilarious.

The moral of the story, Inga and ARM and Howie?

You'll get the bullet too.

NorthOfTheOneOhOne said...

Interesting...

Now there's this: Kenosha Man Shot While Resisting Arrest Was Wanted on Felony Sex Crime Charge, Has Extensive Criminal History.

Speculation is that the encounter could have been an attempt to serve an arrest warrant.

Oh, and FYI to all; Blake's lawyer is Benjamin Crump. Keep that in mind.

Michael said...

The guy was reaching into the car to show the cop his acceptance letter to Cornell Medical School. Proof his life was turned around.

exiledonmainstreet, green-eyed devil said...

The more Dems ramp up the hysteria about police "brutality" the more incidents like this we will get. (And I'm sure that's the plan.)

If you are a not-too-bright black dude with a rap sheet (or even if you don't have a rap sheet) and you keep hearing on black radio and on the news and on social media that white cops just can't wait to kill you, even during routine traffic stops (which this was not), what will the effect be? If you believe that (and not-too-bright people believe what the media tell them - Inga being Exhibit A), than of course, you're going to panic and resist if the cops pull you over. "Oh Christ, here comes white popo, gonna blow me away!" An intelligent person of any race knows enough to follow instructions.

But what's a little blood and violence to the Dems, as long as they can get stupid people to vote for them?

Greg The Class Traitor said...

Real American said...
I'd rather be the victim of false arrest than a justified police shooting. Do what the cops say and figure it all out later.

"Real American" is correct

Bill, Republic of Texas said...
We know have the death penalty for contempt of cop.

Bill is an idiot.

If the police decide to arrest you, one of three things will happen
1: You will be arrested
2: You will be seriously incapacitated, and go to a hospital
3: You will be killed, and go to the morgue

If you add a
4: The cops will give up, and let you get away

Then you are advocating for the complete destruction of civil society

If the cops arrest you wrongly, then you sue them later. What you do not do is fight with them, or resist them.

Suck it up, morons

Daddy Binx said...

Mary Beth said...

'Doesn't he have to be dead for it to be "murder"?'

Don't be silly, he obviously identifies as a Murdered Black Man.

Greg The Class Traitor said...

I was playing with some friends, sneaking around at night with black grease paint on y exposed skin so I was harder to see

While I was sneaking along, All of a sudden I had a spotlight on me

I froze
Someone spoke to me, I shouldn't understand what he was saying. So I very slowly turned my head, while keeping everything else unmoving, and said "what?"
He told me to go home

I said yes sir

I went home

No one got shot, because I wasn't an idiot

It's not skin color that gets you killed, it's actions

Char Char Binks, Esq. said...

Who can forget the sight of George Floyd gunned down in the street like a rabid dog overdosing on fentanyl?

The Vault Dweller said...

Laurence Tribe was clearly giving a political opinion and not a legal one.

GingerBeer said...

Old CW: The guy who breaks up a fight gets stabbed.
New CW: The guy who breaks up a catfight gets shot, seven times in the back.

Kai Akker said...

"I don't care what the extenuating circumstances were." [MeatPopsicle]

I don't care what the facts were.

FIFY. I recommend you read the Parry report rather than supplying your own mind-reading of the police.

Fernandinande said...

I propose a new term: "victimal".

n.n said...

The measures were first put forth by Mr. Evers’s administration in June after the killings of George Floyd
- NYT

So much for due process, for civil rights, the officer involved is a warlock, or perhaps a White Hispanic, judged and labeled accordingly.

Tommy Duncan said...

It appears the "decedent" is improving after surgery. He should be able to provide his own account of his murder.

I was shocked to find he has an extensive criminal record and there was an outstanding warrant for him. Of course, that's no excuse for the way the police treated him while he exercised his Constitutional right to resist arrest an ignore police orders.

Narayanan said...

They had every chance to jam him up when he was reaching into the car - but they stayed far away with no chance of being able to do that.

it is almost like a little physical brutality would be preferable - like billy clubs or knock on head with "cosh" or "pistol whipping?"

n.n said...

no LEO should be allowed to put their knee on the back of your neck for over 8 minutes. This is not an approved submission technique in MN, and the fact that Chauvin and Floyd knew each other and had a negative history

Floyd had an adverse reaction to a drug overdose, exacerbated by a stressor (criminal activity).
It was an approved restraint technique until the day after. Does the AG sign off on policies regulations and procedures?
They were in proximity in time and space, yes. Is there evidence that they "knew each other and had a negative history"?

The restraint followed the episode where Floyd had an adverse reaction to the drugs in his system.

Larvell said...

We should repeal the law that says there have to be riots if someone gets shot by a cop.

n.n said...

Kenosha County Case Number 2020CF000736 State of Wisconsin vs. Jacob S. Blake

Filing date
07-06-2020

Case type
Criminal

Case status
Filed Only - Arrest warrant issued
07-07-2020 Blake, Jacob S.
...
Count no. Statute Description Severity Disposition
1 943.14(2) Criminal Trespass to Dwelling Misd. A
Modifier: 968.075(1)(a) Domestic Abuse
2 940.225(3)(a) 3rd Degree Sexual Assault Felony G
Modifier: 968.075(1)(a) Domestic Abuse
3 947.01(1) Disorderly Conduct Misd. B
Modifier: 968.075(1)(a) Domestic Abuse

Browndog said...

They could not have tackled the guy?

Well, one of them was a woman, so-

Cernovich makes a good point:

"Police shootings will become more common as fewer veterans want to deal with this nonsense and drama, meaning you'll have physically weaker force - those are the ones who draw guns first!"

CWJ said...

For those who say they should have gang tackled him, I agree and sympathize. BUT after Eric Garner and George Floyd, who wants video of them physically restraining someone who might have a negative reaction to the restraint. So instead we get arm's length attempts at control; i.e. taser and yelling. This is what you get when a taser and yelling prove ineffective. None of it good for anyone.

wildswan said...

I'm determined to wait till I see the nine minutes before a shooting. In this case it seems - seems - the officers were trying to help a woman who had already charged this man with abuse. There were three children somewhere (in the car?). Blake was carrying a knife (potential hostage situation with the children?). Blake had previously been charged with having a gun which was lying on the floor of his car - did the officers know this as he leaned down into his car? We don't know important facts. It's right not to issue statements before the facts are gathered and evaluated as the Kenosha Police are doing. But Antifa and our Beloved Governor, Firemouth Tony, are working together to burn down Kenosha before we find out what really happened. Not sure how that should be handled, especially Evers' monumentally irresponsible statement made as far in advance of facts as anyone could well be. Well, they go together - Antifa, educated in Kenosha schools with a curriculum designed by Evers jumps to conclusions and Evers hops along after his students as fast and as nastily as he can.

MayBee said...

Benjamin Crump. Always i mean, not for the cases where there ostentatiously. But I would love to know his connections

rcocean said...

First, he's not dead. And We don't know:

01. his criminal history
02. if he had outstanding warrants.
03. what happened BEFORE this occurred
04. what warnings were issued by the police while he walked to the car.
05. what he said to the officers
06. what was in the car.

But lets pontificate anyway. BTW, it'd be nice if Joe Biden and Gov Evers would tell people not to riot and cause additional injuries and property damage. But I guess pandering to the Left-wing radicals takes priority.

rcocean said...

Just off topic. I was wondering what if a suspect had been wanted for a felony, say rape. And just told the cops "Fuck You, I'm outta here" and walked to his car in order to drive away.

Can the police use deadly force to stop him?

rcocean said...

I love how people always get upset that the cops shoot someone 7 TIMES!!! - would they be happier if they'd been shot twice?

The police need to keep shooting until the target is down or no longer a danger. Sorry, they sometimes need more than 1 bullet. Its real life, not a movie.

Why couldn't they tackle him? Probably for the same reason they had their guns drawn when he started walking to the drivers side of the car.

Birkel said...

The Democratics, including those on this thread, want fewer criminals apprehended.
They want fewer criminals punished.
They want more victims of criminals.

The Democratics want fewer cops on patrol.
They want want more normal police behaviors punished.
They want to jump to punishment before convictions.

I want them to get what they want, where they live.

DeepRunner said...

An issue of magnitude and degrees...not good for Kenosha all the way around, from the gunshots to the burning and looting in the name of "justice." From the phone video, we can't hear what was happening between the cops and the guy, and we don't know why the cop opened-up so quickly and lethally. Not good, though, to say the least.

Skippy Tisdale said...

Joe Smith asks, "What don't black people (and others who get shot by police) understand about putting your hands on your damn head?"

Because they are stupid. I live in Minneapolis on the north side. A few years ago, I went out the front door and saw a cop had pulled a car over in front of my house. Some black guy walking down the street started heading towards the cop with his hand deep in his pants pocket. The cop told him to take his hand out of his pocket. He did not comply so the cop repeated the command. Dude kept walking towards the cop, hand in pocket. The cop reached for his gun, so the moron finally compiled. That is seriously stupid.

Steven said...

Excuse me? With potential child hostages (according to the guy's own attorney) in the car itself? Of course you shoot him.

Seriously, maybe he's going for a gun, maybe he's going to drive off. Either way, the cops aren't psychics; they need to stop him from putting innocent lives in danger. If they wait to see for sure what he's doing, it'll be too late.

It's even more obviously a good shoot if, as is being claimed, they'd already tried tasering him and he had a knife, because those clearly rule out other methods of stopping him.

Unknown said...

BUT THE TASER WORKED SO WELL AT ATLANTA WENDYS

How many shots to "fire in the back" are the proper number of shots?

When we defund the police unarmed social workers can handle these droogies...

Greg The Class Traitor said...

Real American said...
I'd rather be the victim of false arrest than a justified police shooting. Do what the cops say and figure it all out later.

"Real American" is correct

Bill, Republic of Texas said...
We know have the death penalty for contempt of cop.

Bill is an idiot.

If the police decide to arrest you, one of three things will happen
1: You will be arrested
2: You will be seriously incapacitated, and go to a hospital
3: You will be killed, and go to the morgue

If you add a
4: The cops will give up, and let you get away

Then you are advocating for the complete destruction of civil society

If the cops arrest you wrongly, then you sue them later. What you do not do is fight with them, or resist them.

Suck it up, morons

Martin said...

Looks like incompetent, poorly trained police to me. He should never have been allowed to get near the door of the car.

Criminal? Maybe. Second degree? Possibly. First degree? No way.

MayBee said...

Sorry. I tried to post last night on my tablet and auto correct made it incomprehensible.

Benjamin Crump gets called into these cases, and I would love to know his connections.
Benjamin Crump of the "he was just getting skittles and tea. He was talking to his girlfriend. He stayed un identified in the morgue for 3 days" Trayvon Martin story.
Benjamin Crump of the "Hands up don't shoot" case.
He makes up stories about victims and the BLM protests seem to follow him wherever he pops up.

So Mr. Blake, we've heard, was just there to stop a fight. Although we hear he is wanted for domestic abuse.
Mr. Blake, I got a news alert yesterday, is from a family of activists.
Mr. Blake has an arrest warrant for a sex crime.
I'm not trying to "dirty him up". But it does make me wonder about Crump's hero tale.

So he may not have deserved to be shot...but who acts the way he did with cops? Why did he act that way? And are we not arresting people if they just decide to walk away from the cops now?

stlcdr said...

I wonder, sometimes, how cops have the courage to go to work each day.

jg said...

optics are bad but i don't see anything wrong besides the 'how many shots to feel he won't return fire'

we don't know they didn't tase

we do know that once they drew weapons, tackling was out of the question. training
doesn't include quickly holstering (or dropping a gun) to improvise in that way.

i think the guy shooting so many times was probably a little dumb/scared. not sure it's a crime to be dumb and scared. maybe we want police to have different training or rules of engagement. cops seem hyperfocused on the technicalities of what's legal/permissible; adding more rules won't necessarily lead to better average resolutions. they have to find some tool, quickly, that works. cops are shot at all the time

jg said...

i would have shot. maybe the decisions leading up to the need to shoot can be second guessed a little. i would have shot several times. maybe not 7. maybe more than 7.

jg said...

they did try to restrain him without shooting. they failed, i guess due to the knife.

SensibleCitizen said...

"PLEASE DO NOT RESIST ARREST! IT PUTS YOU, THE POLICE OFFICER, AS WELL AS BYSTANDERS IN GRAVE DANGER."

Is that the message from ANY politician? No. They would rather have the issue than the solution.