"Which might be paraphrased as, 'Who needs crowds anyway?' By way of answer, an entirely corporeal Donald Trump was filmed pitching up at an aircraft hangar in Yuma, Arizona, to speak to several dozen mostly non-mask-wearing enthusiasts, who were seated in the blistering heat. The president seemed in no doubt that the physical interplay between the speaker and the spoken to is a critical part of persuading others that something exciting is going on. This has been conventional political wisdom since the dawning of the era of mass communication. You need to show everyone that crowds of others love you and support you. It was true at Nuremberg, it was true at those meetings of the Supreme Soviet whose written minutes would record that the speeches of the Leader were punctuated by 'stormy applause.' It’s true of democratic politicians, hence the clasped spouse and the cheering delegates.... The implicit question here is, do we need crowds any more to furnish us with social proof?... For the past ten years the most successful TV comedies haven’t told you when to laugh, or how. Not Curb Your Enthusiasm, not The Office, not The Thick of It, not Fleabag. There is no social proof here any more, you’re on your own. In fact putting laughter tracks on those shows would destroy them. In the 2020s my laughter emerges from my own unique sense of humour, which you, the comedian, just happens to have appealed to."
From "Will we ever feel the power of crowds again?/Now that empty stadiums and online political rallies are normal, many won’t want to rejoin a mass of swaying bodies" David Aaronovitch (in The London Times).
August 20, 2020
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55 comments:
Comparing Democrats to comedic TV shows is an insult to comedic TV shows.
Aaronovitch is getting a bit ahead of himself, isn't he? People today are dealing a pandemic where the organs of the state ordered them to stay home and indoors. The last time there was a pandemic this big, we had Woodstock.
I prefer Woodstock. If I were under 50, I wouldn't give this virus a second thought.
Oh Fence Me in
Nuremberg? Supreme Soviet?
In 2019, Aaronovitch defended the practice of milkshaking political opponents.[26]
He is a supporter of Tottenham Hotspur Football Club.
I can live with the first fact about the author, the second indicates that he is unquestionably a moron. His own comments about the past madness of crowds seem to be counter-point to his argument. He fails to note how the energy of a crowd can be used for positive purposes, for example the huge numbers of Americans who volunteered to serve during WWII both overseas and at home.
Isn't the writer conflating a canned laugh-track with the interaction and spontaneity of a live audience, irrespective of size.
Maybe he made the same observation I did about the disengaged and distracted smattering of wannabe technocrats shown in front of Kamala Harris as she spoke?
It reads like he was trying to concoct an explanation in terms of an "inflection point" about "Who needs crowds anyway".
First, what an interesting group of comparisons: Nuremberg, the Supreme Soviet... Those were all socialists, just FYI.
Also, that would NOT be my list of best comedies. And did anyone really watch Fleabag? I guess you have to virtue signal. I personally would have put Letterkenny up there if I was being all obscure and artsy. But not down the laneway.
-XC
The Scandemic is the cornerstone of Branch Covidian beliefs.
One of my favorite podcasts, "You Are Not So Smart," did an episode on the psychology of the soapbox and concluded that the crowd is an absolutely vital part of what it takes to make a successful speech that rouses people to action. People sitting in their homes listening individually won't get the same response. You can't tap into the psychology of the crowd if you don't have a crowd. (Interestingly, that doesn't mean people listening individually at home can't tap into the energy of the crowd, just that there must be a crowd.)
This has a "today's increased 20-gram chocolate ration is far more satisfying than the old, piddly 25-gram chocolate ration!" feel to it.
But he didn't tweet pictures of those deplorables that live there? If he did he certainly would not have added, "What's not to like?".
My favorite is when some Current Era writer thinks some set of current circumstances has the power to rewrite social habits that have developed over millennia.
You know who likes big crowds?
He who shall not be named.
This is such a change from when the press was so enthusiastic about the crowds who were going to see Obama. People were cheering! Some were fainting from the excitement!
That was then, this is now. Crowds are bad.
Referencing only Nazi and Soviet crowds feels kind of desperate.
I used to hate Curb, now I love it. The Trump hat bit was even good. I saw him once in a restaurant in Boca Raton. The owner of the place came outside to all of the tables and said in a French accent that was pretty comical “Larry David is eating here”. That part was better than seeing Larry David.
Portland, Seattle, and Minneapolis beg to disagree on the usefulness of crowds.
Whatever Democrats do is always so perfectly fabulous.Who needs lame crowds of unreliable voters when you have disciples in media to do the cheering.
As usual, the elite of academia, gets it wrong.
This is the President exposing the lie, that is Joe Biden. The President of the United States is capable, able, and willing to go meet the people.
Biden has no excuse. None.
It's that simple. Sometimes a cigar, is just a cigar.
"(Interestingly, that doesn't mean people listening individually at home can't tap into the energy of the crowd, just that there must be a crowd.)”
Even golf without a crowd is kind of boring (OK, it’s even boring for people who like watching the PGA) But to be honest, the first time I tuned in to post pandemic golf, they came out with some wokescold hawking BLM and I haven’t watched since. I am sure that they are quite happy to lose all of the viewers who aren’t 100% sure that the Democrats have all of the answers to all of the questions anyway. And my Sunday afternoons are free.
Tested positive for corvid.
He is trying to tie Trump with Fascists' and Communists.
I am some what of a traditionalist but I really like the video. The drums where great.
Dear 21st Century comedians, those laughs that you get, you didn't build them.
Biden’s basement doesn’t need a laugh track.
The people asking if we'll ever have crowds again must be on the germaphobe/OCD spectrum, and like some of the shut-ins I know, are having the time of their lives these last 5 months. They've never felt normal before, but now we are all living like they are, so the anxiety and guilt about shutting themselves out from the world are largely alleviated. We are all speaking their language and living their lifestyle. But the notion that people, suddenly broadly conscious of the disgusting microscopic emanations of their fellow man, will no longer want to gather in large groups is utterly preposterous. The question itself is wish-fulfillment. The highly neurotic people embracing this view are still highly neurotic in a chronic way that can't afflict too many people because there are only a blessedly small portion of humans who live mostly in their own heads.
Who needs crowds? Bill Clinton and Donald Trump both are at their best in front of crowds.
"I prefer Woodstock."
I don't know why, but I was thinking about how 'Stadium Rock' is dead. Will there ever be another act like Queen or Bowie that not only could fill Wembley stadium, but that people would attend?
I'm sure the performers are making their money other ways, streaming, etc. But that huge, extravagant show with lights, smoke, fire (think Pink Floyd), etc. are over.
It was a moment in time, like drive-in burger stands and poodle skirts...
I think that atmosphere was important to Candidate and then President BO.
https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2020/08/more-evidence-that-shutdowns-are-useless.php
TL:DR version
Lockdowns do not work to prevent viral spread and associated deaths.
It would seem the people calling others idiots have some 'splainin' to do.
For the past ten years the most successful TV comedies haven’t told you when to laugh, or how. Not Curb Your Enthusiasm, not The Office, not The Thick of It, not Fleabag.
By what metric are they the most successful? I haven't even heard of the last two.
Anyway, I'm not big on crowds myself, but I am an outlier. People want to get together in groups. The need for physical proximity to other humans is built into our genes. By the way, he missed an example, Antifa likes to gather in large groups to humiliate and kill people and destroy property.
The author in the London Times has clearly never been to an SEC football game.
I've only watched a few minutes of The Office, but I got the vibe that the comedy arises from recognizing that mid-level bureaucrats and workers in the private sector are all idiots and deserve derision from there betters. I just never found that funny. I loved Office Space because though it addressed the absurdities of being a cubicle dweller, it also had respect for the people doing the dwelling. And I thought the printer totally deserved it.
Isn't that the whole point of the Kung Flu Hoax? (the disease is real, the response and danger is a hoax)
They think that if they can stop the Trump rallies, they can stop him. They can't, of course. And certainly not with joey and blowey.
But that is what they are trying to do with this ginned up pandemic.
John Henry
If you focus on one tiny subset of communication--the quadrennial announcement of each state's delegate votes are cast at each party's convention, these videos may be an improvement. Rhode Island, the "Calamari State"--who would have thought that?
But when the speaker for each state is on a crowded convention floor,and each state tries to top the silliness of the earlier state's announcement. You wander into such possible gems (in my dreams) of such intros as "From the great state of Idaho where men are men and the sheep are scared, we are proud to cast all of our votes for that great native Idahoan and outstanding Indian, leader of the Nez Perce tribe, Chief Joseph."
Panscamic, Darrell
My favorite is when some Current Era writer thinks some set of current circumstances has the power to rewrite social habits that have developed over millennia.
Hear hear. "It's a new day, and [whatever] will never be the same!" Every now and then there is a real paradigm shift. But even then, such shifts rarely (ever?) involve a change in human nature. Even stupid social media - just another way of splitting off into tribes and othering others. Same old, same old.
I would guess that humans have joined together for common experiences for as long as there have been humans for a reason.
About the laugh track: I have been in the studio audience that creates that laugh track. It was a fun thing to do with visitors when we lived in LA. And being there, at the moment, *everything* actually seems really funny. They have it all set up just to get you in the right mood to laugh. So it may not work at home, but it works when people are all together.
Many of the shows that don't have laugh track have music, right? There's still an external cue to bring out emotion.
(Having said that, and speaking of Fleabag, I am so in love with Killing Eve right now!! It's on Hulu and I think Amazon Prime)
Last I read, DNC viewing numbers were down over a third. Given all teh outdoor summer things people aren't doing this year, that says the the DNC is really boring to most Americans, even more so now that there's no crowds
IIRC Hitler could sit in a radio room by himself and connect with his audience. But that's a pretty rare talent. Especially for getting action, as opposed to just listening
I've been interested in crowd psychology for a long time; the "why" of people gathering. Why do we prefer movies out? Church congregations? Sports stadiums and fan conventions? It's because of the energy that being in a group of like-minded people brings.
Call it what you will, but I believe there's a psychic energy that we pick up on when we're in groups or crowds. We can see this manifest in various ways depending on the homogeneous makeup of the crowd (not necessarily in race, but in thought or purpose). It's why we can feel more reverent in church, when we're surrounded by others also trying to be reverent. It's why we can feel energized at sporting events or political rallies, depending on the energy coming from the participants. It's how a "mostly peaceful" protest becomes a riot.
We are herd animals (you can use the term "social animals") and we can't help but be influenced when we're in a group of other humans.
We are emotional vampires, getting energy (both good and bad) from the others around us.
Which is why I prefer my cats. -CP
He forgot Spongebob. No one tells you when to laugh in Spongebob. We tell each other when to laugh by making Spongebob memes. Is this writer's preferred video convention meme-friendly?
"Will we ever feel the power of crowds again?/Now that empty stadiums and online political rallies are normal, many won’t want to rejoin a mass of swaying bodies"
This time is different! Humans will stop doing what they have been doing since time immemorial! See W. McNeill, Keeping Together in Time.
"Will we ever . . ." -- written at a time when protesters protest and mobs rampage en masse, and when colleges close for fear of masses of swaying undergraduate bodies.
Montana Cows are the real stars of Yellowstone. Maybe Kevin Costner could be the next GOP President.
"Will we ever feel the power of crowds again?/Now that empty stadiums and online political rallies are normal, many won’t want to rejoin a mass of swaying bodies."
Hard to top that for galacticly stupid cluelessness. Online politics is not the new normal. Except for diehard junkies, no one is watching the Dem convention -- it's a complete snooze.
As for "many won’t want to rejoin a mass of swaying bodies," has this guy ever seen a rock concert? Say, the 1986 Queen concert at Wembley (or even one of the new Queen-with-Adam concerts pretty much anywhere)? For politicos, how about one of the classic Obama speeches (before he was president, while he was still The One, like his 2008 acceptance in the Denver stadium)? Or any of the Trump rallies. That's politics, the kind that can move people to support a candidate, that can create the emotional connection that's needed to persuade all the non-junkies (you know, the normal people).
Please, clap!
Not only Hitler could rivet an audience remotely. I have it on good authority from a Presidential candidate that FDR could as well on television.
"For the past ten years the most successful TV comedies haven’t told you when to laugh, or how. Not Curb Your Enthusiasm, not The Office, not The Thick of It, not Fleabag"
This is just relentlessly stupid. The Big Bang Theory had probably twice the audience of the US version of the Office, and Curb's audience is tiny. I don't know how to convert over to the UK, but I know Friends basically breaks the most-streamed ratings over there. For 70 years, television has always had some gimmick to get you to watch a supposedly fashionable show instead of a good one.
Call it what you will, but I believe there's a psychic energy that we pick up on when we're in groups or crowds.
I've long thought the same. Concerts were my thing - big ones. The collective energy was palpable, zinging asking the nerve pathways. I enjoyed the smaller venues too, with their closer access to the artists, but there was something about thousands of people's intense concentration on one single thing going on up there that made it feel as if we could direct our focus at a mountain and cause it to move.
Think the Dems are feeling that energy now?
Movies don't have laugh-tracks, although it was not unheard-of to hire a claque. Since the days of silent films sneak-previews were used in order to time the laughs.
"Will we ever feel the power of crowds again?/Now that empty stadiums and online political rallies are normal, many won’t want to rejoin a mass of swaying bodies."
Speak for yourself, asshole.
This is suspicious.
And, ultimately, deadly to our spirit.
Call it what you will, but I believe there's a psychic energy that we pick up on when we're in groups or crowds.
Good defense argument for looters and rioters. It's true. Go to a mega church and come out smiling. Go to a big boxing or mma match and come out prepared to defend yourself.
The more things change, the more they stay the same. Crowds will return, just with face diapers for a decade or so.
I have been crowds of over 50,000 at concerts and sporting events. There is something in the energy of a crowd that literally cannot be duplicated by any other thing. I don't like crowds myself, but I can tolerate them for a good show.
Nobody wants to comment on the failure of lockdowns?
Surely somebody here would be interested.
Karen B?
tim in vermont?
Femandnade, does the corbie have corvid?
imagine a silent election without any polls (are they not like sneak-previews?) - what then to be used in order to time the lies (Laughs.)
Greg The Class Traitor said...
IIRC Hitler could sit in a radio room by himself and connect with his audience. But that's a pretty rare talent. Especially for getting action, as opposed to just listening..
----------============
just asking - did you spell FDR in German?
There will be crowds again, everywhere. We will eventually figure out the ins and outs of this virus, and relax a bit. The germophobe introverts will go back to feeling alone and misunderstood, and the football stadiums will be alive with fans. This idea that crowds and shows and stadium rock and baseball stadiums full of fans is in the past is quite silly, really. I almost suspect that those who proclaim this secrely want it to be. So many upsides to quiet afternoons at home, empty streets. The earth heals!
There will be crowds again, everywhere. We will eventually figure out the ins and outs of this virus, and relax a bit. The germophobe introverts will go back to feeling alone and misunderstood, and the football stadiums will be alive with fans. This idea that crowds and shows and stadium rock and baseball stadiums full of fans is in the past is quite silly, really. I almost suspect that those who proclaim this secrely want it to be. So many upsides to quiet afternoons at home, empty streets. The earth heals!
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