August 13, 2020

Joe Biden and Kamala Harris deploy the Charlottesville hoax to stir up racial pain and anger.

Here's the "Joe Biden and Kamala Harris Speech Transcript August 12: First Campaign Event as Running Mates." I watched a small part of it because the TV was on in the room I happened to be in. I myself never turn on the TV news. In fact, I often get up and leave the room when it's on. I keep my distance from the virulent news and stick to reading on line (with small doses of video occasionally). In the bit of Joe Biden's speech that I saw, I found him hard to listen to. I wondered how anyone who had English as a second language could understand him, the way he drops consonants — for example, saying "whe'er not" for "whether or not." He sounded angry but disconnected from the text he was reading.

But I'm reading the text this morning because I saw in a tweet that he was forefronting the Charlottesville "fine people" hoax. On his first day of campaigning with his running mate, he led with that. I say "he," but I don't really believe it's him. I think it's more likely that he's a foggy-minded figurehead, and other people have decided to frame the message like that. I consider these people — whoever they are — despicable. They have chosen quite deliberately to commit to a lie that is intended to make black people feel hated and they are doing it for political gain.

As my earlier post about the tweet says, I blogged in April 2019, "If Biden does not come forward and retract [a video relying on the Charlottesville hoax] and apologize and commit himself to making amends, I consider him disqualified. He does not have the character or brain power to be President." Now, more than a year later, Biden has done the opposite. He's doubled down on the lie and he's making it the centerpiece of his campaign!

Biden put up that tweet last night after the speech. This post is to look at the transcript of the speeches that Biden and Harris gave at their event yesterday and to pull out the Charlottesville quotes:
We have a racial justice crisis Donald Trump seeks only to inflame it with his politics of racist rhetoric and appeals to division. Today’s not only the day I’m proud to introduce Senator Kamala Harris as the vice presidential nominee of the Democratic Party. It’s also the third anniversary of that terrible day in Charlottesville. Remember? Remember what it felt like to see those neo-Nazis, close your eyes, and those Klansmen, white supremacists, coming out of fields...
Fields?
... carrying lighted torches, faces contorted, bulging veins, pouring into the streets of a historic American city, spewing the same antisemitic bile we heard in Hitler’s Germany in the ’30s. Remember how it felt to see a violent clash ensue between those celebrating hate and those standing against it? It was a wake up call for all of us as a country. For me, it was a call to action. My father used to say, silence is complicity, not original to him, but he believed it. At that moment, I knew I couldn’t stand by and let Donald Trump, a man who went on to say when asked about what he thought he said, there were very fine people on both sides, “Very fine people on both sides.” No president of the United States of America has ever said anything like that, see him continuing to attack everything that makes America America. I knew we were in the battle for the soul of the nation.
That was in the middle of Biden's speech. This is from the end of Harris's speech:
Joe likes to say that character is on the ballot. And it’s true. When he saw what happened in Charlottesville three years ago today, he knew we were in a battle for the soul of our nation. And together with your help, that’s a battle we will win. Earlier this year, I said, “I do whatever Joe asks me to do.” And so now I’m asking you to do the same.
No! I'm not going to "do whatever Joe asks me to do," and I don't know why you're such a follower, Kamala. What if Joe gets something wrong? You're not going to challenge him? He's got something wrong about Charlottesville in that tweet last night when he said that Trump called the "white supremacists... with torches in hand and hate in their hearts... 'very fine people.'" You say "character is on the ballot." Show us character then! Be careful about the racial critique you put out there and why you are doing it. I see that you wrote — or your speechwriters wrote — "When he saw what happened in Charlottesville." That's avoiding specifying "what happened." I see the lawyerly loophole. What happened is what actually happened. You're automatically centered on the facts. You haven't repeated the hoax. Is that the level of character you are presenting to us? I'm not impressed.

As for Biden, I can see that the speech isn't as bad as the tweet. The tweet repeats the lie. The speech cagily refrains from asserting that Trump called the white supremacists "fine people." The speech calls upon us to pull the facts up out of our own memory where, in many cases, the lie has taken root. He tells us "close your eyes." He seems to be hoping we will dopily drift into the false memory created by politicians and the media.

He did say, "No president of the United States of America has ever said anything like that." Well, now, that is true. Because Trump didn't say it.

I can't imagine what Biden could do to win my confidence. I'm not going to bother to put in a request this time, because I feel completely hopeless that he will try. He has decided to run on — his people have decided to run him on — fomenting racial division, fear, and hatred. He could have run on just not being Trump — the simple dream to make America normal again. But he has chosen an eyes-closed nightmare.

313 comments:

1 – 200 of 313   Newer›   Newest»
Marcus said...

Dems gotta lie. There are actual people on that side going around pretending that there was actual Russian Collusion WITH Trump in the 2016 election (as well) They just repeat the lie and repeat the lie and fools agree. Confirmation bias. I despise such people.

THEOLDMAN

Robert Williams said...

and to continue this theme: Kamala Harris has disqualified herself as well. The Jussie Smollet hoax - which Harris supported: either she lacked the discernment to see thru the hoax or she she saw thru the hoax and propagated it for political purposes. whichever of these alternatives is true, either disqualifies her for high office in a free republic.

Meade said...

"He tells us "close your eyes." He seems to be hoping we will dopily drift into the false memory created by politicians and the media."

If you refuse to close your eyes and let Sleepy Joe hypnotize you, you ain't woke, man!

MadisonMan said...

This is today's Democratic Party. Take a Lie and run with it. Repeat it enough so the sheeple believe it.

Nonapod said...

Remember that time Biden eologized a former KKK member? With Biden you don't have to make stuff up, there's plenty of things that he has actually said and done that could be described as racially problematic.

“I think the two-party system, although my Democratic colleagues won’t like my saying this, is good for the South and good for the Negro, good for the black in the South. Other than the fact that [southern Senators] still call me boy, I think they’ve changed their mind a little bit.” - Joe Biden

“If you have a problem figuring out whether you’re voting for me or Trump, then you ain’t black.” - Joe Biden

"[w]e Delawareans were on the side of the South in the Civil War.” - Joe Biden

“it’s easy being Vice President – you don’t have to do anything.” - Joe Biden

whitney said...

Racism is the greatest sin
All white people are inherently racist,
To destroy sin you must destroy white people.

A five-year-old white boy was shot at point-blank range, in front of the sisters, by a black neighbor and it is barely made the news because he was just a future racist

Kevin said...

Don’t you know? Charlottesville is the reason he’s running.

What motivated Joe Biden to run for president

He gets no righteous anger in his origin story without the lie.

iowan2 said...

Democrats over the last four years have shown their true agenda. Power for the sake of power. They have no intention of making this nation stronger. Only to spend the riches of its citizens to bribe enough people to get the votes needed to get, and retain power.

sunsong said...

Althouse: are you claiming that donald did NOT say: "very fine people on both sides"?


coz he DID say that

rhhardin said...

Althouse hopes for good character in the dem party. The dems want lockstep voting, not character. It's the way you take over when you're less than half the population, depending on good character on the other side to divide your opposition.

Good character starts liberal and turns conservative as the workings of problems become apparent.

Dems need to stay liberal, working in spite of the problems they in fact create. You need lockstep for that. No noticing stuff and changing your mind.

michaele said...

Thank you for this post. I find this continued distortion by Dems of what Trump said and meant in his comments about Charlottesville to be so distressing. They have created a totally false narrative and have decided to stick with it for dishonest political gain. Irony of ironies, Trump was actually trying to be presidential and healing by saying there was "fine people on both sides." The commitment to this dishonesty is dangerous to our country. It's the same as with "Hands uo. Don't shoot". I'm sure at some point, Biden and Kamala will trot that one out. It's all so sad.

MountainMan said...

I’ll disagree with Harris. “Character” is not what is on the ballot. “China” is what is on the ballot. Americans have a choice: China, represented by Biden and Harris; or America, represented by Trump and Pence.

bleh said...

Get the transcript, Candy.

Mike (MJB Wolf) said...

I love how Steve Uhr pounced on the idiot post to ask why this “one lie” from Biden is an issue. Maybe Steve Uhr should watch the video of Biden interviewed by Connie Chung in 1988 explaining why he was dropping out of that presidential race. What happens next YOU WONT BELIEVE!

Link: https://newsthud.com/watch-biden-busted-blatantly-plagiarizing-speeches-earlier-in-his-career/

rhhardin said...

I'd object to denying the white supremacists being fine people in the first place.

You want correction, not censure, or you're not a good person yourself. It looks like scapegoating to me, a political move that nobody apparently questions. Not a good sign if you want a public debate that isn't talking points.

rhhardin said...

It takes three sheeple to make it work. Two sheep scatter independently when frightened. "Three sheep equals one sheep." Herding maxim.

rhhardin said...

The white supremacists weren't fomenting violence. The scapegoaters were.

Todd said...

They have chosen quite deliberately to commit to a lie that is intended to make black people feel hated and they are doing it for political gain.

Well when all you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.

Division and hate is the ONLY thing the Democrats have. They want to take everything from everyone. Money from the rich, freedom and choice from everyone. They will do whatever it takes to get and keep power. They have shown this time and time again. Their ONLY principle is a quest for power and control. At this point, anyone that does not know this is willfully ignorant.

Ann Althouse said...

"Althouse: are you claiming that donald did NOT say: "very fine people on both sides"? coz he DID say that"

I know what he said. Do you? Don't school me on this and I'm not doing remedial teaching. Get the facts. State them here in full form. The string of words "very fine people on both sides" is out of a context. YOU state the context why don't you? I am completely irritated by this bullshit.

JAORE said...

Maybe this is why the left is so active in promoting their Orange Man Lied a DOCUMENTED 112,345 times! BS.

I had this discussion with a liberal neighbor. I asked him is it the number of lies (some of which I would dispute as lies) or the magnitude/impact of the lie? I, of course, used, "You can keep your our doctor" as my example.

Biden lies a lot. He's lied for decades. He's rarely,if ever called on it. But it still requires battle space preparation.

Biden lied.
Well Trump lied a DOCUMENTED 12.345 times! (So STFU.)

Mike (MJB Wolf) said...

The entire media is part of the lie now. ID channel is running a special on “hate” about how “it all started in Charlottesville” and has a scary commercial promoting it with a SJW whining that “unite the right was against pulling statues down and that’s SCARY!” Disney and ATTT-Time-Warner own a lot of channels and they are flooding the zone for slow joe.

John Cunningham said...

It was an absolute certainty that the Dems would lie about Charlottesville. Everything they say is a lie , from"systemic racism" to "peaceful protestors."

Left Bank of the Charles said...

Does Althouse really not see how Trump’s “very fine people” comment was racially divisive and hurtful? Or is Althouse lost in it because she considers herself one of the very fine people?

Chuck said...

Why the he’ll don’t you do an extended, detailed blog post answering the questions, concerns and criticisms of Robert Tracinski in his Bulwark column, “The Charlottesville Hoax Hoax”?

Then we might get somewhere, debate-wise.

The upshot, I expect, would be that Trump has indeed said some notably ANTI-racist things, but that Trump has also said a whole lot of sloppy, erroneous, dubious, laughably-stupid and even hateful things. And THAT might be in and of itself “disqualifying.”

rhhardin said...

You ought to be able to talk white supremacists out of it just because they're not democrats. No lockstep for them.

Ann Althouse said...

My questions for Biden: What is the systemic racism you've talked about? How does it not include YOU among the white supremacists? Where do you draw the line between fine people and not so fine people?

rehajm said...

It's a refreshing take on things, no doubt. I have a hard time understanding why this one has Ann's dander up vs one of the other whoppers the left has tried to pull off on the electorate. Russia, that rapey SCOTUS guy, shampeachment...but this is the one that crosses a line.

Jersey Fled said...

The fact that they would stoop so low tells me that they don't believe those Biden +10 polls either.

Kevin said...

Shorter Sunsong: (mumbling) What do you mean there’s a hook in my mouth?

rhhardin said...

It's always time for Derb's "Who is a White Supremacist" paragraph, just to show that white supremacist is like phlogiston and systemic racism: air. Apparently it's still necessary to use the term white supremacist because it's necessary still to be able to talk about air.

Derb link

Bill Harshaw said...

Has Pence ever disagreed with Trump?

rehajm said...

Maybe Steve Uhr should watch the video of Biden interviewed by Connie Chung in 1988 explaining why he was dropping out of that presidential race. What happens next YOU WONT BELIEVE!

A few years after that I recall a long, fawning TV story on the 'parallels' in the speeches of Bill Clinton and Tony Blair. I think they believed the telley signals don't travel across the pond so nobody will notice...

Ann Althouse said...

More questions for Biden: Is it good for America to use the term "white supremacists" to refer to people who don't want to tear down the old statues of Confederate heroes? Is it impossible for people who hold that viewpoint to be fine people? Do you realize that's what Donald Trump was talking about, that some people who hold that viewpoint might be fine people? If you don't realize it, how can you be running for President if you're so woefully and dangerously uninformed? If you do realize it, and you're saying the things you're saying, are you a fine person?

Unknown said...

"A lie told often enough becomes the truth" - Lenin

Ryan said...

If you believe it's okay to be white, you are now a "white supremacist."

dustbunny said...

Thank you Althouse for these cogent posts! They are digging in with this bullshit and people need to hear the truth .

Lucid-Ideas said...

If they didn't have lies, they'd have nothing at all.

sunsong said...

Althouse:

there is No context to make "very fine people on both sides" NOT condoning racism.

You seem to be condoning racism as as well.

Are you racist?

I will leave you and your blog if that is the case.

wendybar said...

The whole thing was a lie. Trump coddles terrorists??? Naw...he wasn't the one who sent pallets full of money to Iran, nor was he gunrunning in Benghazi....What a bunch of lying asses. The only way they can win is to cheat and lie. Good luck America...if they win...we lose.

Mike (MJB Wolf) said...

The only systemic racism visible in the American landscape is the Democratic Party. They fought to keep slavery legal. Opposed Lincoln’s call to end it. Enacted intolerable Jim Crow laws to segregate and intimidate black Americans. Formed an armed militia KKK to terrorize blacks that dared to exercise their civil rights. Opposed civil rights legislation. Celebrated Dixiecrats as elder statesmen, Democrats who opposed civil rights so much they wouldn’t call themselves democrats after so many (40%) elected Democrats voted for CRA1964, to the point their big annual event was the Jefferson-Jackson Dinner until just last year when Old Hickory was cancelled by Democrats for reminding people of their past. Why in the early years of this 21st century their were still “former” klansmen serving as Democrats dropping the N Word on live TV. I’ve seen and heard them. If this political party’s 230-year history of using and abusing black people isn’t systemic then nothing in the USA is. Certainly not the Republican party, founded on anti-slavery and always and forever anti-slavery. That’s known as being on the right side of history bitches!

Fernandinande said...

Harris went to law school under an affirmative action program, "Legal Education Opportunity Program" ., "strongly encouraged to submit a second personal essay detailing the adversity they have encountered", like when Kahn jr. Souphanousinphone wrote a letter about how her dad was a Laotian redneck.

Harris's little sister went to Berkeley, and Stanford Law School.

Sebastian said...

"They have chosen quite deliberately to commit to a lie that is intended to make black people feel hated and they are doing it for political gain."

Exactly. And Dems like it that way, they wallow in it.

Now, remember in November.

BleachBit-and-Hammers said...

The left use lies and false narratives to sell their poison?

Chuck said...

btw; as he has repeatedly stated, Robert Tracinski of The Bulwark IS one of those people who is not a neo-Nazi, is not a white supremacist, but who nevertheless is generally opposed to the removal of confederate statuary. And so he wrote, in his column criticizing Trump with all the answers that Althouse seems to be seeking. But will not discuss.

Tracinski’s essential point was that thoughtful and non-racist “removal opponents” were not any part of the organized lead-up to the protests. The weekend was organized by and for Richard Spencer-admiring extremists. It was avowed white Supremacists who sought and obtained the demonstration permit in court. And the torch-wielding demonstrators seen on tv on Friday night were indeed chanting “Jews will not replace us.”

Where did Trump see the thoughtful, non-racist protestors? Not on his television. There weren’t any on television. They do exist, of course; but not in any way suggested by Trump.

Again, all just as Tracinski has reported.

bagoh20 said...

Is Biden saying that the 60 million Americans who voted for Trump are white supremacists and Nazi supporters, because that's how it sounds to me, and that's not divisive at all.

Sebastian said...

"More questions for Biden"

All well and good, but also beside the point: the despicable liars have no time for your questions and no concern for your bourgeois sentiments. They and we are well beyond that.

They are fighting a war, BAMN. Part of what they aim to destroy is Althousian concern for honesty and accountability, for a semblance of a shared culture.

BleachBit-and-Hammers said...

Why the mega-wealthy tech industry support Democrats. the CEO's and heads of Google, Apple, Facebook, Amazon, Bloomberg, etc. They know the democrat power brokers at the top will spare them higher taxes.

Taxes are for the little people. Not the billionaire Soros-class.

Trickle up lies. That's the modern democrat party.

Francisco D said...

Ann Althouse said...
"Althouse: are you claiming that donald did NOT say: "very fine people on both sides"? coz he DID say that"

I know what he said. Do you? Don't school me on this and I'm not doing remedial teaching. Get the facts. State them here in full form. The string of words "very fine people on both sides" is out of a context. YOU state the context why don't you? I am completely irritated by this bullshit.


Thank you Althouse. However, it is not a matter of remedial teaching. The people who continue to push the lie are congenital liars. They will not or cannot learn.

All they need to do is listen to the unedited tape, but they won't.

rehajm said...

Does Althouse really not see how Trump’s “very fine people” comment was racially divisive and hurtful?

Within the context of Trump's remarks I don't see it. If that makes two of us, why don't you try to articulate how the remrks were divisive and hurtful....

Good luck...

BleachBit-and-Hammers said...

sungsong - who uses the term "uncle tom" is a racist. and a democratic. A democratic racist.

Please - leave the blog.

John said...

Ann, you really need to get your reflexive contrarianism under control. It's very unbecoming.

bolivar di griz said...

that line was old nearly three years ago, as they have gone after everyone from Frederick douglass to cervantes

BleachBit-and-Hammers said...

We are told by the left that protesting is the best thing ever.

So when protestors show up, only the leftwing protestors are the good ones. The rest are all white supremacists. Right, liar sunsong and liar Chuck?

James Pawlak said...

Sunday, August 12, 2018
A Year After Charlottesville Mob Warfare
Yes, it has been a year since two gangs of tyrannical thugs fought on the streets of Charlottesville (Virginia) with some pathological excitement-seekers and, on both sides, some "good people" who foolishly did not expect such violence.

One person was killed/murdered during that treasonous riot.

I must wonder, since that one death, how many:
1. Blacks have been illegally killed (ie Murdered) by Whites; And,
2. Whites have been illegally killed (ie Murdered) by Blacks.

Fernandinande said...

What is the systemic racism you've talked about?

Good question. Biden also claims he's going to fix global warming; details to come soon.

Apparently systemic racism is mostly capitalism and education (rational thinking, etc), so "on May 21, 2020, the University of California Regents released a statement.

They announced their decision to drop the SAT requirement for all applicants to all UC schools" because the SAT interferes with the phony "diversity" some people want.

BleachBit-and-Hammers said...

Meanwhile, please ignore the leftwing progressive terror going on each night in Portland.

Mike (MJB Wolf) said...

If you can’t handle the truth sunsong then sayonara. Extracting five words from a paragraph is not an honest excerpt. You very well represent the people joe is appealing to and who find his brand of bullshit appealing. Enjoy!

Kevin said...

Does Althouse really not see how Trump’s “very fine people” comment was racially divisive and hurtful?

No. Please explain it to her.

Pretty please with sugar on top.

Ann Althouse said...

@sunsong

Pathetic.

Answer my questions first.

bagoh20 said...

It's a terrible lie, but I don't get why Althouse is so angry about this one, when so many others seem to be acceptable politics. There are many worse ones. They spent 3 years claiming he was a Russian agent, a spy, and a traitor. The facts that have come out prove they knew it wasn't true all along. Everyday they went on TV lying to our faces, and knowing they were doing it.

I have this question: What specific proven thing the Dems accused Trump of is so negative for America and Americans? It just has to be specific, true, and bad for us.

Now start listing the things they accuse him of that are not specific, proven or negative to us.

Ann Althouse said...

"Thank you Althouse. However, it is not a matter of remedial teaching. The people who continue to push the lie are congenital liars. They will not or cannot learn."

I know they are lying, doubling down on the lie they're so committed to they can't back out. That's why I won't waste my time doing the explanation.

rehajm said...

I will leave you and your blog if that is the case.

This threat has all of the stupid of the Move to Canada Gambit™, with the same quantity of follow through...

mezzrow said...

"Is it good for America to use the term "white supremacists" to refer to people who don't want to tear down the old statues of Confederate heroes? Is it impossible for people who hold that viewpoint to be fine people?"

I think you know their answer, and that answer is YES. They won't say it in THAT context, but we know what they're saying.

They know this is their only hope to win. It will spawn a possible civil war, but a party's gotta do what a party's gotta do. It won't get REALLY interesting until after they've lost again.

It's entirely possible from what we've seen to date that the Dems will develop a provisional wing via their Antifa allies. Distant explosions can sound like thunder.

"...did you hear that? It doesn't look like rain..."

Mark O said...

Biden and Harris can lie about anything knowing the media will never challenge it. The lies will only increase.

tcrosse said...

The people behind Biden's curtain have chosen to start a street fight with a galactic champion street fighter. Biden ads have started to appear on TV, and I'm sick of them already.

Ann Althouse said...

Trump made his comment in response to pressing questions on a Sunday morning show. There was an effort to trap him into saying something that could be used against him. It's not something he was going out of his way to say and repeat. But what Biden and his supporters are doing with it is a DELIBERATE and REPEATED lie and it it done for the purpose of getting political power. It is cynical and actively evil to manipulate people this way. There is a stirring up of racial feelings for political ends. That is evil.

JML said...

sunsong - typical leftest dem. You must say this or else!

Please leave, and take a few other demwits with you.

rhhardin said...

I know they are lying, doubling down on the lie they're so committed to they can't back out.

They're indifferent to lying or not. It's about narrative. What narrative will a voting majority want to live in?

It's fiction, in the positive meaning. People like fiction, but this one over that one etc., and it's a matter of a majority.

The place to exert influence is on their audience, not on them. I don't have high hopes, so long as women vote. They're dedicated to consuming fiction.

Freder Frederson said...

I know what he said. Do you?

I also know what he said about the current protests. Apparently there are only "good people on both sides" when it is conservatives who are causing protesting. The way he tweeted about armed protesters who trespassed on the grounds of governors' mansions and hung a governor in effigy demonstrates his tolerance of violence by the right but not the left.

Freder Frederson said...

It is cynical and actively evil to manipulate people this way. There is a stirring up of racial feelings for political ends. That is evil.

And yet you don't see as problematic when Trump does the exact same thing.

Bill, Republic of Texas said...

Althouse:
Is it good for America to use the term "white supremacists" to refer to people who don't want to tear down the old statues of Confederate heroes? Is it impossible for people who hold that viewpoint to be fine people?

Sunsong;
"You seem to be condoning racism as as well.

Are you racist?"

Althouse gets her answer.

rhhardin said...

Evil shows up in lots of palindromes, owing to being the reverse of live.

bagoh20 said...

So those defending this lie believe that the man who said "very fine people" was talking about racists when he also said:

"“I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and white nationalists because they should be condemned totally.” "

"“Racism is evil, and those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs, including the KKK, neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and other hate groups that are repugnant to everything we hold dear as Americans.”

Now knowing that, how can you defend this lie? Are you just a liar?

Chuck said...

Althouse; Robert Tracinski has no history of lying. He has a very long record of conservative writing, and zero record of playing political games to prop up Democrats.

He’s fundamentally opposed to thoughtless, currently-politically-expedient statue removals.

But he has detailed criticisms of Trump’s remarks; almost none of which you have addressed. Why not?

traditionalguy said...

Wow! Wake up to Althouse and find out that you she has climbed aboard the Trump Train. Celebrate. We have won the election.

PHenry said...

If we are being honest we have to acknowledge that, in the context of Democrat analysis, saying 'there are very fine people on both sides' is racist. As is opposing the looting (reparations), burning, and siege of American cities, or stating that any lives except Black lives matter, or opposing Marxism when espoused by non whites, etc. You name it. To oppose Democrat Socialist aims is racist. To disagree with any statement or demand by a non white Marxist is racist. (Even if that statement is made by a non white person.)
Because in Democrat minds, Blacks are genetically Marxist Democrats. Any statement that falls short of 100% support is racist. That is why if you don't vote for Marxist Joe, you ain't Black, man!

rhhardin said...

In some alternative universe, Biden comes home to Althouse and wonders what the matter is now.

He's crafting a perfectly good fiction and Althouse is pissed off.

Biden tries to explain that you have to work with the audience you're given. In a perfect world, the audience would be smart and want uplifting narratives, but they're not and they don't.

Ann Althouse said...

"Does Althouse really not see how Trump’s “very fine people” comment was racially divisive and hurtful?"

Yes, the use of it by the Democrats has been racially divisive and hurtful — quite deliberately and deceptively.

TreeJoe said...

I have to give it to the democrats on this, they are choosing to go after character - probably Trump's weakest characteristic and where Biden, despite a horrible history, is often believed to be an elder statesman of good character.

It's a fine line of attack to pull people OFF voting for trump.

Of course the flaw is simple: These are people of deeply flawed character.

Biden takes over Ukraine policy and his inexperienced son gets a board seat on a ukrainian energy company, run by a corrupt billionaire, getting paid $600k a year for....well, not his experience.

Biden and Harris using blatant lies to advance their character attacks.

Harris working hard to keep potentially innocent african americans in jail.

The list goes on and on and on.

Character is a good trait to attack on. If you can draw the distinction.

When you can't, it fails.

rehajm said...

As a result of the threads this morning, Nate's predict-o-meter lowered the probability Ann votes for Joe Biden to 71.4 percent...

BleachBit-and-Hammers said...

The white Antifa terrorist left in Portland come close to what Biden is yammering on about.

rhhardin said...

I wonder if the Simplisafe home alarm system is suffering from the uselessness of automatically notifying the police these days.

Dave Begley said...

Ann:

Today's Dem party is full of despicable people. Recall the Kavanaugh hearing.

One of Biden's main campaign persons is Symone D. Sanders from Omaha and Creighton University. In her book she wrongly claimed she interned with a female federal judge. It was a state court judge and, of course, I know her. Symone is a liar just like Joe. And not very bright; just like Joe.

Temujin said...

Sensible response, Ann. This is going to be an election full of lies, as they all are. But this one will be particularly ugly. And it will turn off a LOT of voters on both sides. What people need to do, if they can keep their sense about them, is to look past the breathless media reports, past the blaring headlines, and bouncing heads on the tv news stations.

They need to look past all of the speeches and accusations and look to see how they want their country led. What direction do they want? Who do they want to be the ones pointing that direction?

Say what you will about Trump as a human being, the direction this country was moving in, economically- prior to Covid- was more freedom, more growth, more people working than at any time in our history. And he could have done much more with a Congress that was working, instead of working to remove him illegally from office.

The Democrats have spent the last 4 years ripping up our political process, pushing a coup on the nation, tearing down the traditions and history of this country, accusing most everyone of being racist or some such thing, and destroying a majority of the downtown business areas in our major cities.

I can simplify this. Ignore all the talk between now and November. You can vote for civilization and freedom, or you can vote for the totalitarians running things. Both sides have shown what they are about.

Susan said...

So is this an illustration of the "It's not a lie if you believe it." idea in action?

Kate said...

Goody Sunsong giving me the chills this morning. Vote Biden if you want this kind of chanting to have govt force behind it.

bagoh20 said...

"Does Althouse really not see how Trump’s “very fine people” comment was racially divisive and hurtful?"

It was clearly not intended to be divisive. Any clear thinking person would see that it was an attempt to do the opposite, to heal, to tell very fine Americans on both sides that they were all valid, and to separate them all from the real racists. He was clearly trying to put both sides on one side - the very fine Americans side.

The divisive action is on the left trying to make everyone who supports Trump into a Nazi. Is that not divisive and hurtful? Calling it divisive is the dividing, and it's a lie.

Michael K said...

I will leave you and your blog if that is the case.

What a threat !

What this theme means is that the DNC is really panicked that blacks are showing signs of leaving the plantation.

bolivar di griz said...

he lied about the accident that claimed his wife's life, he lied about his law school standing, what hasn't he lied about,

Leland said...

This past month has had several incidents in which BLM protestors have stood in front of cars and aimed guns at the driver; and Biden/Harris want to remind everyone that this started in Charlottesville when one guy drove into a crowd of similar protestors and was immediately arrested?

Remember what it felt like to see those neo-Nazis, close your eyes, and those Klansmen, white supremacists, coming out of fields...

Why recall memories when this happened just yesterday.

I agree that repeating the lie is bad. But this is really much worse, because it is spreading a violence being perpetrated on other Americans that simply want to live peacefully in their home or travel to their store or business. Many of these people weren't even alive during Joe Biden's recollection of the 1930's nor voted for Democrat governors in the 1950's and 60's. Still, they are being physically assaulted in their own vehicles and in their own homes simply based on the color of their skin. And Biden/Harris are fanning this violence by repeating a lie.

Chuck said...

That’s such a shitty excuse you are trying to make for Trump’s multiple clumsy statements about Charlottesville, Althouse.

The way for a real president to have dealt with it would have been a carefully-crafted press release, and a short written speech. Trump doesn’t do that. He likes to free lance it in front of live reporters. And you, Althouse, seem to like to see him do that.

The problem is that unless the President who attempts such a maneuver is exceptionally bright, quick-witted and articulate, shooting from the hip is fraught with rhetorical danger. And in Trump’s case it is all the worse because he is so exceptionally reckless and dull-witted.

BleachBit-and-Hammers said...

Indeed Ann @ 8:33.

The stirring of racial hatred, by Biden and his team, create the very toxic hate they claim to want to stop. The white left are the real segregationists. Biden (the man with a real sexist/racist past) can hide behind Kamala's gender and skin color.

Gahrie said...

They have chosen quite deliberately to commit to a lie that is intended to make black people feel hated and they are doing it for political gain.

As I have said before, the Democrats have literally been doing this for over fifty years? Why? because it worked and they got away with it.

What woke you up now?

BleachBit-and-Hammers said...

The collective power-left want separation, segregation, and hatred - so they can rule with an iron fist. After then get it, all the talk of reparations with vanish. Like always. But they want those votes. With cheat-by mail voting, the left will just keep counting until they win. We really are screwed. Chuck is fine with it.

Michael K said...

And yet you don't see as problematic when Trump does the exact same thing.

Freder, once again, snatches the lie from the truth. Trump has a long history with blacks including Jesse Jackson and even Al Sharpton. You invented the lie.

stevew said...

I get that the Biden campaign is doing this because they think it will help them win, but I don't believe the politics of division and hatred of others will accomplish that. When Trump ran on a theme of MAGA it was a vision of a positive future. IMO Biden would be better served by articulating a better future for all Americans. Going for the Black vote by lying about Trump and his supporters, by choosing a sort of black running mate, by lying that racism is systemic and rampant in America is all so obviously cynical and condescending that it is more likely to fail spectacularly. At least I hope it does.

bleh said...

I agree with others that there have been other anti-Trump hoaxes and deceptions, like Russiagate, but this one is particularly bad because (1) it’s particularly divisive, making the president out to be a Nazi, and (2) it’s an egregious lie and the dishonesty has been plain since day 1, as the text is there in black and white. For the MSM not to Four Pinocchios fact check Biden into oblivion, or for Twitter not to flag the offending tweet or even threaten to suspend Biden for spreading a dangerous hoax, etc., just underscores the disgraceful asymmetry in American media and politics. MSM is best understood now as an unofficial, unregistered Democratic PAC.

Lnelson said...

Politicians lie, reporters lie, audio out of context lies, video lies, fact checkers lie...sigh.
Trump is a narcissistic, exaggerating boaster... and may be the most truthful, accessible and transparent politician today.

Qwinn said...

"Biden takes over Ukraine policy and his inexperienced son gets a board seat on a ukrainian energy company, run by a corrupt billionaire, getting paid $600k a year for....well, not his experience."

And remember, Trump merely *asking* about this was their number one piece of evidence that Trump has bad character. Just for looking into Biden's obvious Ukraine corruption. That's what they chose to impeach over. That's what *they* choose - not us, them - to demonstrate that Trump has bad character. Not Biden! Mountains of evidence that Biden is corrupt only results in Trump's character being questioned, not Biden's.

If it were possible to measure quantity of gaslighting, we'd need to pick new units of measure for this one just so that quantity could fit on the front page of a newspaper.

Dave Begley said...

When I asked Senator Booker about his disgusting performance at the Kavanaugh hearing, he relished it. And the Dems all cheered.

Is there no decency left?

Qwinn said...

"The way for a real president to have dealt with it would have been a carefully-crafted press release, and a short written speech. Trump doesn’t do that. He likes to free lance it in front of live reporters."

If saying ""“I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and white nationalists because they should be condemned totally.”" isn't "carefully-crafted" enough for you, if you think the presence of that context can simply be ignored and it's okay for your side to claim he WAS talking about neo-Nazis and white nationalists, then there's really nothing left to say except fuck you.

mikee said...

The party of historical anti-black racism in the US is pulling a Big Lie in this election, because they have nothing else. Racists are winning right now. God help us.

BleachBit-and-Hammers said...

Dear leftists,

Please answer Bagoh's question @ 8:39.

Where Trump said:

"“I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and white nationalists because they should be condemned totally.”

“Racism is evil, and those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs, including the KKK, neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and other hate groups that are repugnant to everything we hold dear as Americans.”


Come on hivemind progressives who blindly hate Trump & who purchase wholesale every pile of BS that falls out of tribal-D club lips.

Do answer.
WE are waiting.

Gahrie said...

But what Biden and his supporters are doing with it is a DELIBERATE and REPEATED lie and it it done for the purpose of getting political power. It is cynical and actively evil to manipulate people this way. There is a stirring up of racial feelings for political ends. That is evil.

What is the difference between what they did here, and what they did to Romney and his "binders full of women" remark? Besides stirring up feminists instead of Blacks? Hell the Romney case was worse, they took a comment supporting women and turned it into an attack on women.

BleachBit-and-Hammers said...

It's really Hillary's "Deplorable" line all over again.

Gahrie said...

Today's Dem party is full of despicable people. Recall the Kavanaugh hearing.

She was on their side for that one.

Chuck said...


Blogger bagoh20 said...
So those defending this lie believe that the man who said "very fine people" was talking about racists when he also said:

"“I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and white nationalists because they should be condemned totally.” "

"“Racism is evil, and those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs, including the KKK, neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and other hate groups that are repugnant to everything we hold dear as Americans.”

Now knowing that, how can you defend this lie? Are you just a liar?


Here’s your answer:

https://thebulwark.com/the-charlottesville-hoax-hoax/

Read it; then we can have a meaningful debate.

Freder Frederson said...


"“I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and white nationalists because they should be condemned totally.”

“Racism is evil, and those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs, including the KKK, neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and other hate groups that are repugnant to everything we hold dear as Americans.”


I doubt that Trump really believes this. He often backtracks and contradicts himself.

BleachBit-and-Hammers said...

Why won't CNN, MSDNC condemn white left terror and property destruction in Portland by the white left?

Isn't that racist and pro-terror?

rehajm said...

... but this one is particularly bad because (1) it’s particularly divisive, making the president out to be a Nazi, and (2) it’s an egregious lie and the dishonesty has been plain since day 1,

A coordinated smear of a Supreme Court nominee, the acceptance of uncorroborated accusations, the invention of 'her truth' to replace 'the' truth, impeachment based on essentially nothing- these aren't divisive and egregious enough for you?

BleachBit-and-Hammers said...

Trump had to be impeached for Biden family money-laundering corruption, Qwinn.
- That's life in corrupt D-club 'merica now.

Just ignore Biden's stripper impregnating, Porch driving, Hollywood hill's living super-wealthy son who has NO skills and no idea about anything - but he is magically qualified to sit on international corporate boards making huge sums of money every year - doing what exactly? no need to ask - CNN won't let you. Plus it's a crime to ask.
It's a crime to ask about any D-party corruption. The party of Clinton lives on.

Freder Frederson said...

Trump has a long history with blacks including Jesse Jackson and even Al Sharpton. You invented the lie.

And he also refused to rent to blacks as far back as the '70s. And what is with the current obsession with "suburban housewives". If you can't see the code behind his concern for them, you are just willfully ignorant.

hombre said...

There are two kinds of people who will vote for Biden/Harris, people of the bubble and amoral people. People of the bubble are those who have chosen to be deceived by the media or are too ignorant to avoid it. Amoral people are those who don’t care about Democrat media lies and Democrat Party corruption.

People of the bubble include TDS sufferers. Amoral people pretend to suffer from TDS when political gain is to be had. Harris falls into the latter category. Biden May have also at some time. By now his cognitive decline makes it difficult to call. So let’s say he is both.

In the long run it doesn’t matter because if they carry the day, the country is toast. All there is to do by now is pray, give money and vote.

Roughcoat said...

He has decided to run on — his people have decided to run him on — fomenting racial division, fear, and hatred. He could have run on just not being Trump — the simple dream to make America normal again. But he has chosen an eyes-closed nightmare.

Totally agree. Very insightful observation. One of your best.

bolivar di griz said...

in point of fact


https://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/2020/08/democrat-party-getting-rid-jews-daniel-greenfield/

Susan said...

There are no videos of Trump speaking glowingly about how wonderful certain Democrats were who were actually Klan members. There are such videos of Biden doing this.

So the Biden people need to get ahead of these stories, which are sure to come out.

Lucky for them, the Dems and the media have been able to swamp decades of Trump's work for minority groups and erase mention of how popular he was with Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton, etc.with egregious lies such as the Charlotte lies.

That was then, this is now. And that is how they intend to rule. So what if you got an award for your work with Jesse Jackson? If you step out of line now, you are cancelled!

Lewis said...

How good are you - that is not ironic - and naive. I feel like throwing old Robert Frost poems at you, like snowballs. You still believe in the democratic process and If enough people believed like you...? This is war, between barbarism and rationality - maybe, maybe we can still scrape some dignity and say the system works - but not if Trump wins. I want Trump to win but I know that will tear you're country apart. That I don't want. Who knows, maybe I'm wrong.


The Age Of Darkness.

The chatter on the wind is the irritation
Of the street: drunks or illiterate poor
Claiming back bitter heritage of dark
Or barbaric recompense of pillage.
The habited Romans on their destined sword
Of solitary circlings; burnt books,
Artefacts in whose flames is seen the death
Of some peculiar, personal march
To some incongruous goal. Not sacrificed
But burnt with the words and flaming tongue
Taking all in a lying confession
Of confounded biographies.
The time heralded on an ox skin drum
And thus brought to a passive, anonymous march,
A prayer of strangers.

Todd said...

stevew said...

IMO Biden would be better served by articulating a better future for all Americans.

8/13/20, 8:54 AM


Sure if it were any way possible, if he had any kind of reasonable plan, and if he had any idea of what he was doing BUT we don't live in that reality, we live in this one.

What had Biden EVER done to create anything that wasn't related to giving away other people's money? He has NO idea how business works, how the economy works, how the world works. He has spent his entire adult live in Democrat politics. He has NEVER done anything remotely as good for this country in his entire political life including his 8 years as VP than what Trump has done in 3.

Trump understands better than EVERY Democrat that the government does not create ANY jobs. All they can do is get out of the way and allow citizens to create jobs. Every single government job is welfare paid with other people's money taken by force. From the local dog catcher all the way up to POTUS. Not a single Democrat understands this. Some of these jobs are necessary to allow the rest of the country to function. That should be the discussion, how much Government at each level is actually needed. We can NO longer have that conversation. Democrats act like their end goal is to have EVERYONE work for the government (i.e. communism/socialism). They want everyone (but themselves and their friends) to be equally miserable.

I wish for all of them to live in the world they want but I also want "us" to live in the world we want. In their world all I can see is misery. In mine I see freedom and opportunity.

Lewis said...

I'm to depressed

Howard said...

Hehehehehe. Lying in politics is SOP. Lying about Trump is good for the Gander. What matters is that the Democrat ticket makes it stick. Maybe Kanye will save Trump. If not, shuttering the Post Office might suppress enough POC voters in swing States to do the trick. That's the type of cancel culture you people dig.

Boo fucking hoo

NCMoss said...

Thanks Althouse for your passion about this although I think the adoption of structural racism as orthodoxy is (and has been) far more destructive.

rcocean said...

Sometimes I think I'm living in bizzaro world and not the USA. The Media and Biden/Harris continue to gaslight us and present up as down and black as white. We've just had weeks of left-wing extremists, Antifa and BLM, burning down building, looting, blinding injuring and blinding Police officers with lasers, and even drawing guns on innocent people and YET ...

Per Biden and the MSM - they're the GOOD GUYS! Who stand up to HATE. Y'see the BAD GUYS are Trump and a few kooks at Charlottsville who came out of Mom's basement to hijack a protest against a statue being torn down. THREE FUCKING YEARS AGO.

Biden refuses to attack the people who tear down statues of Lincoln, Grant, or Teddy Roosevelt. He refuses to attack Antifa or the violent riots. WHICH IS HAPPENING RIGHT NOW. Instead, he lies about Trump praising Neo-nazi kooks 3 fucking years ago.

Its insanity fair.

Birches said...

Mythologizing Charlottesville after the past two and a half months seems really tone deaf, taking the lie completely out of it. But I also know it works. The wealthiest women Boomers I know are all in in becoming woke. They'll do anything to assuage their guilt over their prosperity.

Lewis said...

I wanted to talk about Amy Winehouse - an old friend of mine, that is I met her outside the old Marquee or rather I got pissed of with the music so went outside - I paid the ticket, 20 quid, which for me was a fortune! - and every band made me want to throw up. Anyway, I sat on the steps outside and she came like an angel to ask me 'Are you ok?' I said 'No'. How can I be?

iowan2 said...

“The way for a real president to have dealt with it would have been a carefully-crafted press release, and a short written speech”

News alert. LLR Has no clue President Trump in NOT a politician. He is a real person. A person that has the balls to fight his own fights and refuses to hide, like a sniveling LLR behind lackeys, Does his own wet work. A man of means and character.

Of course this is root of LLR panty pissing, “He is just not proper”
It is impossible to convey what a useless bag of skin these LLR actually are. They have no balls to fight the fight against these vile Democrats. They much prefer to loose, and play martyr than get a bloody lip fighting for what is right.

rcocean said...

ALthouse being a bit of liberal herself, and being surrounded by leftists understands why Biden/Harris are doing this. I myself was puzzled at their motives till she detailed it. Yes, they what to stir up racial discord and hatred and drive blacks to the polls in November. JUST WIN BABY, JUST WIN.

And of course, any lie about Trump and the Republicans, is justified. No respect for the Presidency or the people who elected him. No respect for previous norms or limits on insults and attacks on the Presidency or you opponent. No blow is too low, no lie too disgusting. The means justify the ends.

Birches said...

But I don't know if it works to an advantage in November. I don't think any of the ladies I know voted for Trump in 2016 either.

And there are many of us that didn't vote for Trump last time that are planning on it this round.

Lewis said...

amy, my darling, Winehouse was when I thought we'd turned a corner. So naive, so stupid. She died, life died.

AlbertAnonymous said...

I watched it live and noted the same point. First thing he did was lie. Right out of the gate. And she made a Charlottesville reference as well.

But the media is in the tank for the Dems so they’ll never call them out for the proven falsehood. They’ll double down.

Fuckers

Rick said...

Ann Althouse said...
More questions for Biden: Is it good for America to use the term "white supremacists" to refer to people who don't want to tear down the old statues of Confederate heroes?


Let's not pretend this is the line wokesters draw, they also support pulling down statues of George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, and Christopher Columbus.

Is it good for America to use the term "white supremacist" to refer to people who support rational and logical thought or who value planning ahead? Is it good for America to lie that literally everything in its history including the American Revolution was done to support slavery?

Todd said...

Freder Frederson said...

I doubt that Trump really believes this. He often backtracks and contradicts himself.

8/13/20, 9:15 AM


So you have to read Trump's mind to find fault but Biden's own words are not proof of guilt.

You are ridiculous...

rcocean said...

People need to understand Charlottsivlle was a MANUFACTURED event. IT was a story the press decided to make national news. What happened is that about 400 people who wanted to protest a statue coming down, were joined by a 100 neo-nazi kooks. 5,000 violent Leftists then showed up and attacked the neo-nazis AND the people who just supported the statue. The police stood by and let it happen.

The press then made this a front-page story for a week, asking Trump questions about it, day after day. When they FINALLY got ONE sentence from one of his answers that made him look bad, they made that the story for days and days. And Biden is STILL lying about it! Its crazy, its insane. The Bizarre is now the new normal.

Inga said...

“It is cynical and actively evil to manipulate people this way. There is a stirring up of racial feelings for political ends. That is evil.”

“And yet you don't see as problematic when Trump does the exact same thing.”

Yes, sadly so. For three plus years Trump has been given a pass in this regard and others. Trump ran on manipulating a certain segment of our population against illegal immigrants, who feared they would take over America’s culture, take away jobs and commit rampant crimes. Trump has manipulated religious people by playing up the fears that they won’t have freedom of religion. Trump has manipulated the gun rights people who fear the 2nd Amendment will be abolished or abused. Trump has manipulated people into believing that a virus that has caused a pandemic shouldn’t be taken seriously, causing the virus to spread like wildfire, while other countries are almost back to normal. trump tried to manipulate Black America into voting for him by saying “What have you got to lose?” as if there are no successful black people in America. Trump tries to manipulate “suburban housewives” into thinking their neighborhhods will be overrun by poor people who need Section 8 housing vouchers and will make their neighborhhods less safe.

If manipulation of people’s worst instincts and fears is a problem and evil, I’d say Trump fits the bill yet seems to escape harsh criticism from Althouse.

bolivar di griz said...

no of course not, he made common cause with eastland and byrd, just as he was the soviets catspaw from the 70s on,

BleachBit-and-Hammers said...

The media will save us.

Inga said...

“It is cynical and actively evil to manipulate people this way. There is a stirring up of racial feelings for political ends. That is evil.”

“And yet you don't see as problematic when Trump does the exact same thing.”

Yes, sadly so. For three plus years Trump has been given a pass in this regard and others. Trump ran on manipulating a certain segment of our population against illegal immigrants, who feared they would take over America’s culture, take away jobs and commit rampant crimes. Trump has manipulated religious people by playing up the fears that they won’t have freedom of religion. Trump has manipulated the gun rights people who fear the 2nd Amendment will be abolished or abused. Trump has manipulated people into believing that a virus that has caused a pandemic shouldn’t be taken seriously, causing the virus to spread like wildfire, while other countries are almost back to normal. trump tried to manipulate Black America into voting for him by saying “What have you got to lose?” as if there are no successful black people in America. Trump tries to manipulate “suburban housewives” into thinking their neighborhhods will be overrun by poor people who need Section 8 housing vouchers and will make their neighborhhods less safe.

If manipulation of people’s worst instincts and fears is a problem and evil, I’d say Trump fits the bill yet seems to escape harsh criticism from Althouse.

Gahrie said...

And he also refused to rent to blacks as far back as the '70s.

Another lie. Even Snopes won't back you up on this one. A company that Trump was a part owner of, hired a manager that could be argued did racist things. The company was sued and settled without admitting any guilt. In order for this to stain Trump, you have to believe he told the guy to be a racist. (Which I admit is pretty easy for some people to do)

Inga said...

“Hehehehehe. Lying in politics is SOP. Lying about Trump is good for the Gander. What matters is that the Democrat ticket makes it stick. Maybe Kanye will save Trump. If not, shuttering the Post Office might suppress enough POC voters in swing States to do the trick. That's the type of cancel culture you people dig.”

Ah yes another manipulation of black people by Trump via his political action groups, encourage Kanye West to run for president to try to siphon off votes of black people from the Democratic nominee.

rcocean said...

Final comment. In his press conference on Charlottsville, Trump said that once you started with pulling down R.E. Lee statues, where does it end? And Trump predicted that Jefferson, Washington, and Jackson would be next. The Press mocked him for that, but he's turned out to be 100% correct.

Iman said...

I will leave you and your blog if that is the case.

Promise?

Unknown said...

I'm sure there are some fine people in these protests by ANTIFA and BLM, but the violence, arson, looting and outright lawlessness needs to stop...

Ann Althouse said...

Freder, quoting me, you wrote: "'It is cynical and actively evil to manipulate people this way. There is a stirring up of racial feelings for political ends. That is evil.' And yet you don't see as problematic when Trump does the exact same thing."

Then when bago quoted Trump to you — "“I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and white nationalists because they should be condemned totally. “Racism is evil, and those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs, including the KKK, neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and other hate groups that are repugnant to everything we hold dear as Americans.” — you switched to saying : "I doubt that Trump really believes this. He often backtracks and contradicts himself."

From "exact same thing" to... exactly the opposite but he probably didn't mean it.

Absolute bullshit from you. The definition of bullshit.

sunsong said...

I think a racist who is not proud of their bigotry is *pathetic*

cowardice is *pathetic*

there were only two sides in Charlottesville, one of which IS racist

if you condone the statement "very fine people on both sides" you condone racism.

gravityhurts said...

The Biden add I have seen the most often is the one that claims Trump killed my Grandma.

Bruce Hayden said...

I find interesting Ann’s vehement response here. Much more passionate than we usually see from her. What we mostly see here is an intellectual trying for “cruel neutrality”. And, yes, probably achieving it more often than is comfortable for many of us. I think that in real life, in meat space, if we ever met, I would like her, a lot more than she would like me, because I have a bad habit of pushing intellectuals, and esp liberal ones, to respond emotionally.

My mother was a liberal Republican intellectual, who, as with Ann, always tried for cruel neutrality. I discovered as a teenager how to punch her buttons (as many teenagers do with their parents). She found her emotional responses to my proddings exhausting. As a result, out of 5 boys, I was probably her 4th or 5th least favorite. Which may be why I have spent the last two decades with a woman whose favorite stories involve either her own, her siblings’, or her kids’, rebellion from their parents in general, and mothers in particular. And together in public, we seem to form a very memorable comedy team as we constantly bicker. We both enjoy it.

My point here is not to pile onto Ann for reacting passionately. I expect that she finds it somewhat exhausting, like my mother did. We need people like her in the world to see through the emotional manipulations that politics these days seems to thrive on.

Birches said...

Bye sunsong.

Lewis said...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrfXjYiJFI0

Pre- the wall - think about it!

Qwinn said...

Freder:

"I doubt that Trump really believes this. He often backtracks and contradicts himself."

Translation: It doesn't matter if Trump said the diametric opposite of what we said he said. In any such cases, it was Trump that was lying, not us.

Char Char Binks, Esq. said...

I heard yesterday on NPR that the violence in Charlottesville was planned, and that the counter-protesters were there to stop it.

How could counter-protesters have known ahead of time that the violence was planned? Who would have been the target of violence if they hadn’t shown up? How could they have stopped the protest without violating federal civil rights laws?

Lewis said...

And, by the way, 'laska' means love

Ice Nine said...

>>sunsong said...
Althouse:
Are you racist?
I will leave you and your blog if that is the case.<<

Ann, could we perhaps pay you to answer that in the affirmative?

Birches said...

P.S.

Althouse isn't a racist.

Unknown said...

Here is Scott Adams fisking of the Charlottesville Hoax which provides full context.

https://www.scottadamssays.com/2019/04/30/the-fine-people-hoax-funnel/

I think it's funny that Biden/Harris are running with "Donald Trump seeks only to inflame it with his politics of racist rhetoric and appeals to division."

You mean like trying to appeal to 50+ genders each with their own demands, and segregating whites from others in racially segregated dorms.

Isn't there research that says, if you look at life with cynicism and negativity, you will always overlook the good for the bad. Conversely, that if you have a positive and optimistic outlook you will see the good despite the bad. Does this not hold up for the grievance studies majors. If you think all men are sexist, you will only see sexism in men. If you think all cops are out to get blacks, that is all you will see.

Sorry, I'm old school, was taught that we should treat individuals as individuals. Judge people by what they do, not what they say.

Joe Smith said...

"The Jussie Smollet hoax - which Harris supported:..."

Some say she not only supported the narrative but also may have been in cahoots with Jussie. She and fierce heterosexual Booker had introduced an anti-lynching bill in the senate in June 2018...

It wasn't getting traction in the House, and in January 2019 Jussie was 'attacked'...fortuitous timing wouldn't you say?

I would give $1M to see the phone/text/email records between Harris, Booker, Smollet, and the Chicago DA. I hope somebody finds them.

Wa St Blogger said...

Althouse,

I think you need a better crop of liberal contributors to the comments section. (I know, you actually don't have control over that.) It's like an WWE match with the marquee wrestler going against some unknown person in a mask and a drab leotard. Total smack down every time. The problem may not be the commenters as much as the lack of material they have to work with. The left simply has nothing to run on but hate, and discord. They can only attack and vilify, they don't have a positive message about prosperity and peace, so all the commenters can do is defend a losing proposition any way they can and avoid substantive debate. Still, they are true believers in the cause, and maybe that is the saddest thing. OR should I say I feel saddest for them.

Joe Smith said...

"I am completely irritated by this bullshit."

She may be small but she's feisty : )

Fernandinande said...

My Bunnyhun and her liberalista sister were arguing about a different Trump quote, about wearing anti-cootie masks, and I found this twittering from Trump:

"We are United in our effort to defeat the Invisible China Virus, and many people say that it is Patriotic to wear a face mask when you can’t socially distance. There is nobody more Patriotic than me, your favorite President!"

She says, "He actually said 'your favorite President'? Ha ha, I love that guy."

Which reminds me, "Kamala Harris introduces legislation to condemn phrase 'Chinese Virus' as racist"

“Kung Flu” also made the list names people should not use.

The resolution, which is cosponsored by fellow Democratic Sens. Elizabeth Warren, of Massachusetts, and Mazie Hirono, of Hawaii, condemns “all forms of anti-Asian sentiment as related to COVID-19.” The measure has no Republican support."


Pro Tip: Don't commit a hate-crime against the good people of Lyme, Connecticut by letting a tick catch you!

Rich Vail said...

Ann, you might find it despicable for his campaign to say that but you're still going to vote for him, so what does that say about you?

Bob said...

BleachBit-and-Hammers said, "Why won't CNN, MSDNC condemn white left terror and property destruction in Portland by the white left?"

Why would they condemn what people do in the name of Justice? Come on, man!

New profile who dis? said...

I've been saying for years that it doesn't matter what Republicans actually say. They have to understand that what they say will be taken completely out of context or reordered as complete lies. Democrat politicians, entertainers, and media are Orwellian totalitarians down to their bones and don't care one little bit about truth or reality, only how they can skew perceptions. And they're masters of doublethink - they know they're lying but they are able to suppress that knowledge.

Bruce Hayden said...

“IMO Biden would be better served by articulating a better future for all Americans.”

Biden/Harris offers fear and division, while Trump offers hope. Hope for a better America. And I think, or maybe just hope, that the vision of hope is more effective come November, than the competing vision of defeat, fear, and division.

Why would anyone rationally support the party, and the candidates, who actively enable and even encourage the destruction of our society? What is their vision of the future? That AntiFA Commie Scum and BLM thugs get released to burn the rest of the country down, instead of just their urban strongholds? I, obviously, don’t think that is possible. What they are doing, is doubling down on fear and division. What they should be doing, is calling out their violent, nihilist and Marxist, elements, for their violence, and if they continue, pushing increased policing and incarceration for the violence. Not defunding the police, but increased funding. Not lenient judicial process, but aggressive. You start throwing AntiFA Commie Scum into gen pop for violent offenders, and their violence on the streets will stop overnight. Throw an organized crime tag on them, and watch out (you really don’t want to be in prison with an organized crime tag, if your gang there isn’t strong enough to protect you - I know someone who took extra time just to avoid this). Of course they won’t. Which is why I think that Biden/Harris will lose in November.

gilbar said...

sunsong said...
I will leave you and your blog if that is the case.


oh, Promises Promises

Original Mike said...

"It is cynical and actively evil to manipulate people this way. There is a stirring up of racial feelings for political ends. That is evil."

The democrats have been doing this for a long time. It is why race relations are going in the wrong direction.

Browndog said...

rcocean said...

People need to understand Charlottsivlle was a MANUFACTURED event. IT was a story the press decided to make national news. What happened is that about 400 people who wanted to protest a statue coming down, were joined by a 100 neo-nazi kooks. 5,000 violent Leftists then showed up and attacked the neo-nazis AND the people who just supported the statue. The police stood by and let it happen.


Oh, it's so much more than that-

The police didn't let it happen. The police made it happen. By police, I mean State police.

Terry McAuliffe engineered it because he was pissed he lost a court injunction to stop the protest organized by left-wing agitator Richard Spencer the night before.

So much rotten about what happened in Charlottesville it would fill a book.

Francisco D said...

The FBI reported that they received thousands of complaints about Brett Kavanaugh raping them during the hearings.

I wondered what kind of person would make up something so obviously false and hurtful. I suspect that they are activists (like the ones on this thread) promoting the Charlottesville lie.

Mike (MJB Wolf) said...

Freder should join sunsong and GTFO. BYE!

Joe Smith said...

A point on racism that bears repeating. Yes, there is racism in this country. Although hardly systemic (there are to many laws and too many pro bono lawyers for that), day-to-day life for African Americans can be tough I'm sure.

But Kamala is being touted as a black woman with Indian taking a back seat. Here's the kicker. You would not know that she is 'black' unless you were told ad nauseam.

There is no way she had a typical 'black' experience in America. She would have never been pulled over for 'driving while black' because any police officer would see a slightly tan white woman or maybe a fair-skinned Hispanic. She would not be followed by store security at Macy's as so many black women have alleged.

She certainly wasn't denied opportunity because of her 'blackness,' indeed she was promoted to the front of the line by taking advantage of affirmative action admissions to a prestigious school (University of California Law School).

Blacks in America have a common bond as the ancestors of slaves in this country. Kamala's family owned slaves in Jamaica. Like Barack, she is not an 'American' black, having zero ties to enslaved black ancestors.

She has absolutely NOTHING in common with the black experience in America. And I get the feeling that many (much blacker) black people will see through the charade.

Browndog said...

Apolitical Scott Adams and liberal leaning Ann Althouse has been more outspoken about this Charlottesville bullshit than any republican in Congress.

rhhardin said...

A description of Hans Christian Andersen's "The Snow Queen" might be apt, dividing what Trump is for and what the opposition is for: [quote]

The marvelously revealing mirror in Hans Christian Andersen's "The Snow Queen" offers a case in point. In this tale a demon invents a unique mirror : it does not reflect, it systematically misreflects. Andersen's mirror shrinks and distorts every good and beautiful thing, and it magnifies everything evil or ugly. In this glass pleasant landscapes look like boiled spinach, normal people appear hideous, and kind thoughts become wicked grins.

The demon creator appears mildly amused by his invention, but his students, simple reflectionists, take it very seriously :

[description quotes The Snow Queen]

All the pupils in the demon's school - for he kept a school - reported that a miracle had taken place : now for the first time, they said, it was possible to see what the world and mankind were really like. They ran about everywhere with the mirror, till at last there was not a country or a person which had not been seen in this distorting mirror.

[unquote]

Eventually the mirror breaks. Shards of glass fly through the world and lodge in people's eyes and hearts. These shards retain the peculiarities of the mirror, so that everyone sees the world through bent, distorted, and misshapen images.

Editors' introduction to the ``Sociology of Literature'' issue of _Critical Inquiry_ v.14 n.3 (Spring 1988) p.428-429

Bill, Republic of Texas said...

Sunsong said:
"there were only two sides in Charlottesville, one of which IS racist

if you condone the statement "very fine people on both sides" you condone racism."

If you condone racism you are a racist. So add this all together and that means Althouse is a racist.

You promised to leave if Althouse is a racist.

Buh-bye.

Inga said...

“Blacks in America have a common bond as the ancestors of slaves in this country. Kamala's family owned slaves in Jamaica. Like Barack, she is not an 'American' black, having zero ties to enslaved black ancestors.“

There is NO evidence that Harris’ black ancestors in Jamaica owned slaves. Harris father mentioned a WHITE Irish ancestor who owned slaves. Thousands, if not millions American blacks have WHITE ancestors who owned slaves. Harris and her father have an African heritage, that is obvious. 92% of Jamaicans have African heritage.

It’s evil to try to manipulate black Americans this way by lying about Harris’ black ancestors in Jamaica.

Michael K said...


Blacks in America have a common bond as the ancestors of slaves in this country. Kamala's family owned slaves in Jamaica. Like Barack, she is not an 'American' black, having zero ties to enslaved black ancestors.


Isn't it interesting who the Democrats pick as examples of black people ? Jesse Jackson even ran for president. Got nowhere. Of course he was a grifter but minor league compared to Biden.

Pookie Number 2 said...

That’s such a shitty excuse you are trying to make for Trump’s multiple clumsy statements about Charlottesville, Althouse.

So the latest complaint is that Trump should be held responsible when people (I use the term very loosely) like Chuck lie about him.

Michael K said...

if you condone the statement "very fine people on both sides" you condone racism.

I thought you were leaving ?

Gk1 said...

What is FUCK HEAD CHUCK doing back on this site? I thought he had been kicked off?

What pains me about the democrats continual demagoguery about race is they will not be able to come close to closing this fissure after adding more germs to the open wound they keep picking at.

What country do they expect to inherit after scorching the earth to get rid of Trump? Are they prepared to have their president impeached and harassed 24/7 by the other half of the country? Can they even think at least 2 steps ahead after salting the earth of their own country?

Bilwick said...

In a local race, soy boy candidate Jon "Osshole" has been using the "Trump killed Grandma" approach. No consciousness or clue that statism has a far, far higher bodycount than the Kung Flu. Or maybe like Inga the State's Handmaid he's just glossing over the ugly truth underlying his philosophy.

etbass said...

The war of words is completely useless. Let's just get the guns and all line up with the idiots on one side and us on the other and just start shooting. Who ever is left standing, wins. ( I have half a thousand 5.56 rounds for my AR-15, let's go)

Winner take all.

End of B.S.

Kevin said...

Thousands, if not millions American blacks have WHITE ancestors who owned slaves.

Millions, if not hundreds of millions of American whites have no ancestors who owned slaves.

Guess which group is inherently guilty of "slavery".

Inga said...

And to add to my 10:52 AM comment, if Harris’ WHITE ancestor, an Irish man, owned slaves, where do you think Harris’ family got their African heritage from? Are rightists seriously trying to say Jamaica had no African slaves? This is manipulation of black people by trying to make them think Harris is not a legitimate African American and that is vile. Harris is an American and she is of African heritage as well as Indian heritage. To try to negate her African heritage is underhanded and evil.

Dr Weevil said...

A reminder for sunsong and others:

There was a national poll at the time of the Charlottesville incident asking whether Confederate statues should be taken down. Americans polled were against by roughly 2-1. Specifically, Republicans supported keeping them by 8-1, independents 2-1, and even Democrats had only a plurality, not a majority, in favor of removing them: 46% for removal vs. 42% for keeping them.

Is it possible that two-thirds of Americans are racists and white supremacists? Including 42% of Democrats? Or is it more likely that there are literally tens of millions of actual "fine people" who support keeping the statues but are not racists or white supremacists? This is not a rhetorical question: please answer it, sunsong, Freder, Chuck.

I support keeping all statues and monuments until such time as a referendum including all affected voters votes to remove them. For Charlottesville, that would be everyone in the city and (arguably) everyone in surrounding Albemarle County. For monuments on campus at UVa it would include alumni as well as current students, faculty, and administrators. For the monuments in downtown Richmond, the state capitol, it would include the entire population of Virginia. Such referenda might well pass - it's possible that opinions have shifted over the last three years - for Confederate monuments, but I'm pretty sure Columbus, and Jefferson, and Father Serra would be safe. If 50.1% of my fellow citizens vote to remove any statue, fair enough, away it goes. I would hope they would plan a replacement before removal, but that's up to the voters. (Up until a year ago, I drove past the courthouse in downtown Leesburg, Virginia every few weeks, and empty plinths are really ugly: they need to either put some new statues on them or take down the pillars. Ugh. Of course, the uglification of American history and culture is a plus for some people.)

I also support harsh penalties for anyone even attempting to remove or deface a monument, unless a referendum has been passed and the appropriate authorities have hired that specific person to do the job. Mob rule is disgusting and unAmerican. It would be nice if Biden or Harris could bring themselves to say so.

For anyone who claims that having to look at a monument of someone evil is harmful, I have two things to say:

1. You don't have to look. Avert your eyes, stupid. I find 60% of all political bumper stickers stupid and offensive, but so what? I don't have to read them.

2. I live literally next door to a grand monument honoring one of the vilest and most despicable people in American history, the Woodrow Wilson Presidential Library. Living there has never harmed me in any way, and never will, unless a mob decides to burn it down and the fire spreads to my house - the alley in between is rather narrow. As a matter of principle, I will never go inside, even if someone else is paying, though I do like to look at Wilson's 1919 Pierce-Arrow limousine through the picture window. The only harm proximity has ever brought me has been caused by a WWPL caretaker who likes to mow the lawn way too early (I like to sleep late) and once ran his snowblower at 2:30 in the morning (!) to try to stay ahead of a blizzard. That was horrible, but I don't think the caretaker's rudeness was in any way related to Wilson's vileness.

Michael K said...

Freder Frederson said...
Trump has a long history with blacks including Jesse Jackson and even Al Sharpton. You invented the lie.

And he also refused to rent to blacks as far back as the '70s. And what is with the current obsession with "suburban housewives". If you can't see the code behind his concern for them, you are just willfully ignorant.


More lies from Freder. Hard to keep track of all of them. Also, it is amusing that you assume there are no black suburban housewives.

"I am so old I remember when most racists were white. " T Sowell.

I remember when most racists were Democrats and it was yesterday.

Char Char Binks, Esq. said...

“Good people on both sides” didn’t mean EVERYONE on both sides was good. After all, Trump specifically excluded the violent “alt-left”. Can Freder, Howard, or Igna give another example of those Trump excluded?

Birches said...

The Biden add I have seen the most often is the one that claims Trump killed my Grandma.

How does that help Biden? The only place that had huge amounts of dead old people is New York... Florida seniors surely realize there's not an endless array of deaths among their peers.

Lewis said...

Anny, get your gun I guess I need it, drunk that I am - All we know - this is putative headlines - is Anne Oakly shot him.

MartyB said...

They're running with that lie because they sense it works on many people.

I've seen the evidence presented that conclusively dis-proves the "fine people" hoax, and Trump opponents push right past it - usually with some version of "But that's what he meant because he is a racist."

Reasoning just doesn't work with certain people.

Churchy LaFemme: said...

Eventually the mirror breaks. Shards of glass fly through the world and lodge in people's eyes and hearts. These shards retain the peculiarities of the mirror, so that everyone sees the world through bent, distorted, and misshapen images.

gilbar said...

serious question
in regards to ACTUAL NAZI'S, if we divided people into two groups;
The Actual Nazi's,
And Everybody Else

Could we STILL say that there were "good people on both sides" ??
I'm thinking about Oskar Schindler.
Oskar Schindler was a card carrying member of the German Nazi Party
Would it be fair, to say that He was "good people" ???

I'm guessing, that the current answer is: HELL NO!
Shit, how many transgendered lesbian African-Americans did he save? NOT A ONE

gilbar said...

MartyB said...
Reasoning just doesn't work with certain people.

You cannot reason someone out of something he or she was not reasoned into.

Browndog said...

Everything a liberals says is the opposite of the truth.

Everything a liberal accuses someone else of doing, there are in fact already doing it.

Still searching for that one liberal willing to acknowledge it's possible they are wrong/mistaken.

It's not possible to know something a liberal doesn't

Original Mike said...

Blogger bagoh20 said...
"So those defending this lie believe that the man who said "very fine people" was talking about racists when he also said:

"“I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and white nationalists because they should be condemned totally.” "

"“Racism is evil, and those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs, including the KKK, neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and other hate groups that are repugnant to everything we hold dear as Americans.”"


Thank you, bagoh20, I did not know he said this. Not at all surprised.

mikee said...


What I appreciate the most about Trump's oh-so-obvious-to-Democrats racism, something which he brings up himself so often, is that he cites to this very day the low, low, low black unemployment numbers under his administration, up to January 2020. He cites low, low, low hispanic unemployment numbers under his administration, and low Asian numbers, low women's numbers and low white people numbers, too, as if he was very happy everyone of any race, creed, ethnicity, country of origin, sex or whatever had been able to find a paying job, do good work and be paid before COVID-19. Trump's ability to cover up his own oh-so-obvious-to-Democrats racism with what must be faux delight at good economic news for other races must be an act of insincerity on the scale of Bill Clinton wagging a finger at the country, or Hillary saying under oath that she doesn't remember making horrible criminal decisions which she makes again and again.

readering said...

AA feeding her commenters again.

Original Mike said...

"Reasoning just doesn't work with certain people."

They have no interest in the truth.

Gahrie said...

To try to negate her African heritage is underhanded and evil.

Don't tell us, tell her mother.

Drago said...

Inga: "And to add to my 10:52 AM comment, if Harris’ WHITE ancestor, an Irish man, owned slaves, where do you think Harris’ family got their African heritage from?"

Its fun watching Inga and LLR-lefty Chuck and the rest of the lunatic leftists at Althouse flail like crazy to avoid the transparently obvious.

Kamala Harris directly benefited from her family owning and probably working to death over 200 slaves.

200.

Kamala owes somebody something and she owes it to them fast.....and Inga and LLR-lefty Chuck and Freder and Land of Lost moron sunsong continuing to push the Charlottesville hoax is not going to make that reality go away.

BTW I still have fond memories of Althouse absolutely dismantling LLR-lefty Chuck on the Charlottesville fake quote Hoax on multiple occassions.

Leftists like Inga and Chuck should take note that when someone who is obviously not on the right, like Althouse, is easily demolishing the lefty lies pushed by Inga and LLR-lefty Chuck the lefties ought to stop for a moment to figure out why that is.

But they don't, which makes them perfect lefty foot soldiers.

Chuck, how is the Whitmer reelection team shaping up? Can you give us some inside info on that since you are a part of it?

Sebastian said...

Hey, Althouse, I know it's not the NYT, but check out Kyle Smith at National Review for a rundown of Kamala's lies just in her first speech.

Drago said...

readering: "AA feeding her commenters again."

Do you still weep over the failure of your russia collusion hoax and gang rape lies against Kavanaugh?

Or are you like Inga and you STILL BELIEVE!

Lewis said...

I'm so angry -I don't know why - I have been so for four months in the sin bin you imagine - I'm angry about my mother, obviously - the most intelligent woman that at ever existed. Tha hats stupid, I know. I know I'm in love with Martina. After 20 years. I can't stop it. Just sweat a lie. So I imagine if I called back to her - would she want me, would anyone want me.

Drago said...

Birches: "How does that help Biden? The only place that had huge amounts of dead old people is New York... Florida seniors surely realize there's not an endless array of deaths among their peers."

That is what the big lie push to paint Cuomo as a guardian angel instead of an angel of death comes from.

And now we know that Cuomo had his own crew fail to report nursing home deaths that occurred outside the nursing home! That's right. Cuomo shoves sick people into nursing homes, the elderly get sick to the point of dying and then the patient is transferred to the hospital and voila! Not a nursing home death!

And there are legions of lefty liars like LLR-lefty Chuck and Inga who go right on praising Cuomo as if he was the second coming (remember how they all wanted Cuomo to replace Biden? LOL)

Drago said...

Pookie Number 2: "So the latest complaint is that Trump should be held responsible when people (I use the term very loosely) like Chuck lie about him."

Correct.

LLR-lefty Chuck, who proudly declared his ONLY 2 purposes on this blog were:
1) To smear and lie about Trump
2) "drive a wedge between Althouse and her readers"

...is never going to change.

Meade called him out long ago as a transparently dishonest hack which everyone could easily see.

I'll bet LLR-lefty Chuck really regrets that 14th gin and tonic when he let down his mask completely to tell us explicitly what he was doing at Althouse blog.

The best part?

The next day when he was called on that he tried to claim he never wrote it and, naturally, many others happily captured LLR-lefty Chuck's admission and will often repost it here when LLR-lefty Chuck defies the banning that he was hit with and comes back to democrat propoaganda.

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