August 22, 2020

"In a society that respects science, expertise confers power.... Illegitimate political power can be disguised as expertise...."

"In late February, [Italian philosopher Giorgio] Agamben began... to criticize the 'techno-medical despotism' that the Italian government was putting in place through quarantines and closings.... The emergency declared by public-health experts replaces the discredited narrative of 'national security experts' as a pretext for withdrawing rights and privacy from citizens. 'Biosecurity' now serves as a reason for governments to rule in terms of 'worst-case scenarios.' This means there is no level of cases or deaths below which locking down an entire nation of 60 million becomes unreasonable. Many European governments, including Italy’s, have developed national contact tracing apps that allow them to track their citizens using cellphones.... [The term 'social distancing']... 'appeared simultaneously around the world as if it had been prepared in advance.'... His point is that social distancing is at least as much a political measure as a public health one, realized so easily because it has been pushed for by powerful forces....  'For fear of getting sick,' Mr. Agamben writes, 'Italians are ready to sacrifice practically everything — their normal living conditions, their social relations, their jobs, right down to their friendships, their loves, their religious and political convictions.' In fact, 'the threshold that separates humanity from barbarism has been crossed,' Mr. Agamben continues, and the proof is in Italians’ treatment of their dead. 'How could we have accepted, in the name of a risk that we couldn’t even quantify, not only that the people who are dear to us, and human beings more generally, should have to die alone but also — and this is something that had never happened before in all of history from Antigone to today — that their corpses should be burned without a funeral?'"

From "Meet the Philosopher Who Is Trying to Explain the Pandemic/Giorgio Agamben criticizes the “techno-medical despotism” of quarantines and closings" by Christopher Caldwell

Agamben uses the word inoperosità  — which translates to idleness —to refer to "instances of common customs or historic institutions getting emptied out of their long-held meanings... that can generate new systems of belief and new dangers." We imagine that we are hanging back from a life to which we can return, but we will never go there again. Something new is coming into being.

130 comments:

rehajm said...

"instances of common customs or historic institutions getting emptied out of their long-held meanings...

I'm reminded of the words of an oft quoted American internet philosopher:

1. Identify a respected institution.
2. kill it.
3. gut it.
4. wear its carcass as a skin suit, while demanding respect.

rhhardin said...

Plagues had plenty of no-funerals. Bring out your dead. The era lacked only a critic.

rehajm said...

There's a bit of attributing to malice that which is explained by stupidity. Institutions work in silos and they prescribe policies to work within them. We used to count on leaders to interpret the output from the silos for prescriptions what benefit humanity.

Unfortunately now are leaders are folks what failed third grade science, then learned nothing the second time.

NotWhoIUsedtoBe said...

If the "something new" is not having to shake hands, I'm fine with that. I'm also fine with not flying. Remote work, ditto. Remote education for kids is cool, too. So is avoiding mass transit. I'm enjoying the lack of colds. I haven't had one for six months.

Sebastian said...

“the threshold that separates humanity from barbarism has been crossed,”

With the eager approval of panicking progs everywhere.

Bolstered by the eternal lie: that the oppression inflicted is for our own good.

J said...

It seems that I agree.Under the pretence of COVID governments with the help of businesses have trampled over the needs and wants of many citizens in the name of protecting a vulnerable few.Who were killed anyway by typical governmental incompetence or neglect.And the horror is that we have all gone along with it.

Mark said...

Reading now Darkness at Noon. It had been since college when I last read it.

It is quite enlightening in comparing the thoughts of the characters -- Soviet communists who practice inhuman genocidal totalitarianism as a scientific method based on the ideology that they are experts in reason -- to the progressivists of today who infest our schools, universities, entertainment, media, much of religion, medicine, science and government today.

Lewis Wetzel said...

Blogger John Lynch said...
. . .
I'm enjoying the lack of colds. I haven't had one for six months.


Isn't it a little eerie? I haven't known anyone who has been sick since March. No one with flu, summer cold, etc.

Crimso said...

Do you trust the scientific decisions of people who learn their science from CNN, Fox, NPR, etc.? No? Then why would you trust scientists to make decisions (that must fundamentally be political decisions) when what they know about politics comes from those same sources?

Rory said...

"If the "something new" is not having to shake hands, I'm fine with that."

It's striking how the badgering about wearing masks has crowded out the simple encouragement to wash your hands when transitioning from one thing to another.

Rory said...

If scientists are to be obeyed, then all the worst people will contrive to look like scientists.

Owen said...

Yeats wrote “The Second Coming” just over a century ago. These things take time.

MD Greene said...

That's some serious Foucauldian hooey right there.

narciso said...

This is why they got rid of salvini and contr was a leading figure head.

rhhardin said...

Power ought to be broken out into the various things it can mean - officium, potestas, imperium and auctoritas.

Auctoritas doesn't give you the other three without clickbait and an audience.

Power cuts out the distinctions.

Anthony said...

When people are scared they’ll do what they’re told. Asshat elites have known this for millennia.

Michael K said...

The totalitarians have found a new tool. It is not limited to Democrats in this country although they are the most enthusiastic.

Temujin said...

The word 'science' has become a religious word. And it is used, as is religion, to prove moral superiority when convenient. It is also ignored when inconvenient. And even when the 'science' is every changing, evolving, not exact- it can be cherry-picked to use parts of it that make your case. And never is the evidence of your own senses taken into consideration, just the Word of the Priests.

Gov. Gretchen Whitmer of Michigan comes to mind. She's a mess. In another era she'd be seen as governing by use of darts on a dart board that has only carefully selected choices for those darts to land on.

Science!

M Jordan said...

This Science! God is cruel. He would not let me attend my Down Syndrome brother’s funeral. My mother’s, which came 30 days later, I was able to attend ... along with 21 others. This same god made me veil my face, avoid my friends, stop worshiping with others, watch my neighbor’s businesses fail, and stop shaking hands. It frightened my grandchildren and took them out of school. It pitted neighbor against neighbor. And the “data” this god stood atop was imaginary and contradictory all along.

I hate this sonofabitch diety. And I hate his adherents.

iowan2 said...

This is the camel nose under the tent. Bring up the slippery slope premise, and the camel calls you a conspiracy nut. Discredit the person, not the fact.

If the government can force you to wear a mask. Close your business by declaring you non-essential, then exactly what rights still exist? Protection of the public health voids the bill of rights? Well, with the covid thing, habeas is too dangerous to the public health. Sounds silly? Talk to me when you are free to wander the streets without a "face covering". Not a device to prevent the spread of disease. Absolutely anything that covers your nose and mouth, or is capable of covering your nose and mouth it the wearer feels like it. The government has found the reason to suspend the protection of inalienable rights. Who defines a health emergency? The government who is finding their power limited, by the people they wish to control.

Bob Boyd said...

We imagine that we are hanging back from a life to which we can return, but we will never go there again. Something new is coming into being.

Wow! Good stuff.

Drago said...

John Lynch: "Remote education for kids is cool, too."

Are you insane?

Remote "education" at scale is a disaster for the vast majority of children and the parents, even though it has helped to further expose some of the leftist tactics used to promote marxist ideology.

And for children with special needs who require one on one therapies, "remote education" means they make zero progress and most regress.

Char Char Binks, Esq. said...

I remember when Italians were encouraged to hug Chinamen — scientifically.

Bob Boyd said...

Hope and Change

I Have Misplaced My Pants said...

The era lacked only a critic.

I doubt that, actually.

When people are scared they’ll do what they’re told. Asshat elites have known this for millennia.

“The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by an endless series of hobgoblins, most of them imaginary.” Mencken

Browndog said...

The term 'social distancing']... 'appeared simultaneously around the world as if it had been prepared in advance.

Posted on Youtube, April 15, 2020:

Every Covid-19 Commercial is Exactly the Same

Posting this for no apparent reason:

Amazon: profit up 100%
Walmart: profit up 80%
Target: profit up 80%
Lowe's: profit up 74%
Microsoft, Facebook, Apple, Google: stock at record high

Small businesses: 21% closed; revenue for rest down 30%

We're seeing a monumental wealth transfer from mom & pops to conglomerates.

My company processes small business payments. In 2008 - the worst recession in 80 years - small biz revenues fell 20%. Now they're down 30%.

Meanwhile, the stock market is at a record high.

So the biggest corporations are in a record boom and small biz are in a record free fall


-Dan Price

Fernandinande said...

"and meanwhile they let thousands of lowlifes land their boats and do what they want, go where they want, spit, infect."

He called African refugees "lowlifes". Good for him.

This Science! God is cruel. He would not let me attend my Down Syndrome brother’s funeral.

C'mon, man! That was politicians. There's not much actual science behind any of the reactions to the Invisible Chinese Virus. It's hard to tell what the rambling nyt article was about, but it wasn't about science.

social distancing. He is puzzled by the term

"Social distancing" used to mean avoiding lowlifes.

lonejustice said...

As a practicing misanthrope, I really haven't noticed much of a change in my life.

Owen said...

The beautiful part, for the tyrants among us, is that this crisis not only invests them with sweeping authority —really, as much authority as they ever drunk-dreamed of seizing— and simultaneously allows them to conceal the source of their authority under the rubric of “public health authority.” A mayor might be challenged for overspending the road repair account; a Governor could be impeached for changing the liquor laws without legislative approval; but let them utter the magic word “COVID” and their critics are silenced and disarmed.

Yet what lies beneath that word? Some dark writhing ever-evolving narrative of random invisible contagion and slow suffocation, with the narrative decorated with shifting and unfalsifiable numbers and graphs. Nothing that is organized and presented any longer in a complete and coherent and transparent form, where people can judge for themselves the risk and reward, choose a new course, agree that the current plan is the least bad, that it might someday END THIS INSANITY.

No, no such presentation is made. The “leaders” see no reason for it. Shut up, they explain, this is Science.

Mike (MJB Wolf) said...

Who knew the public health apparatus would be the disguise these soft coup actors used? There is no scientific basis for the shutdowns and the concept of quarantine itself was never inverted and applied to healthy free people before and the force of law, with no rational scientific basis, used to back up crazy “stay at home” orders. The Supreme Court has twice backstopped the worse of Gavin Newsome’s onerous and punitive rulings against st churches, even when the rules are so obviously out of line with bars and PROTESTS. Are they creating precedent? Will stare decisis lead for SCOTUS rulings farther into mindless fascism? Can common citizens regain their right to work through a class action suit? Will anyone stand up to the anti science tyranny trying to strangle our economy?

Bob Boyd said...

No matter what the problem, terror, the environment, pandemic, market crash, the fix is always the same.

Technocratic control is the duct tape of Davos.

I Have Misplaced My Pants said...

In order to return to college my daughter had to agree to adhere to a whole list of COVID mitigations as well as 'whatever we dream up in the future.' She had misgivings but wanted to continue her education. This week they announced that staff and students will be randomly assigned times to show up for saliva-based rapid COVID testing, participation mandatory or GTF off their campus. No privacy policy has been released as to what they are doing with that medical information.

She can tell them to get bent and come home but she signed her apartment lease and paid tuition back in early summer when the administration was pinky swearing that they would have activities and on-campus classes (of course they walked all that back when it was too late to claw back any money).

Another example of the exhaustion of COVID fuckery that I am just so weary of: my city had a pipeline explosion -- in a city with a dozen huge oil refineries that employ thousands -- and several people were so severely burned they had to be flown to the burn unit in San Antonio .... because our local burn unit -- IN A REFINERY CITY -- was converted to a COVID unit that has never been used. Slow clap. Slow, fucking, clap.

Althouse and other early panickers: are you sorry yet for what you have wrought? I know you did not know how utterly destructive your attitudes and actions would be in the long term but you mocked and ridiculed those of us who tried to tell you and you have never admitted you were wrong. You WERE.

Fernandinande said...

The ngram for "social distancing" has the same shape as the ngram for many "woke" terms, namely its popularity starts exploding about 1960, and the meanings in 2013 include the avoiding unpleasant people and as well as avoiding potentially diseased people.

Mike (MJB Wolf) said...

To say it another way with historical perspective, THESE TULIP PANICS/ mass hysteria events look different from the inside. 2020 definitely puts the “mass” in Mass Panic because it includes every country but Sweden. And I’m starting to see how it was just about as spontaneous as the “mass protests” neé riots that are being exported to other nations.

Paco Wové said...

"It's hard to tell what the rambling nyt article was about, but it wasn't about science."

Jordan wasn't talking about science. He was talking about Science!.

Drago said...

Misplaced Pants: "Althouse and other early panickers: are you sorry yet for what you have wrought?"

Well, she did post this and that's not a small thing.

Browndog said...

Gov. Gretchen Whitmer of Michigan comes to mind. She's a mess. In another era she'd be seen as governing by use of darts on a dart board that has only carefully selected choices for those darts to land on.

Insiders tell us that if she loses her emergency powers she'll use the Health Dept. to enforce all her edicts. She will never relinquish power until the Governor's Mansion is a smoldering ruin.

All the lib governors have the same plan, including Wisconsin:

Dane County Wisconsin just ordered private schools to remain closed

This comes on a Friday night right before private schools were expecting to start in-person:

ORDER OF PUBLIC HEALTH MADISON &DANE COUNTYDATE OF ORDER:August 21, 2020Goes into effect on August 24, at 12:01a.m.EMERGENCY ORDER #9

BUMBLE BEE said...

Simply this... the "statistics" gathered from this "pandemic" are going to be rubbish which will further the next trashing of America's bill of rights. Coding "Covid" is the only way hospitals have of making money. Cuomo and Whitmer have cleared out their Medicaid rolls by sending many infected into senior care facilities. Lets see the issue in a breakdown of race, national origin and age. We have "experienced" an influx of third worlders courtesy of Obama on top of millions of illegals. Immunities shared in our country are pertinent. Many folks I know were VERY ill in December '19. No one hospitalized. Perhaps we will have to wait for the mortality counts of the upcoming flu season to see how many "would have died anyway" got pulled ahead.

RigelDog said...

The emergency lock-down and uncontested assertion of government power has gotten to the point where I can't understand it anymore. I don't understand how the government is permitted to still be doing this to us. Why no effective, popular uprising against it? It's SIX MONTHS and no end in sight! Is it possible to be a "little bit" terrified? Because I'm a little bit terrified.

BUMBLE BEE said...

Soros spent good money on getting these tyrants elected. He WILL reap the benefits.

Leland said...

His point is that social distancing is at least as much a political measure as a public health one

Indeed. Politicians have used social distancing laws to fine and arrest people for essentially exercising free speech whether it be protest against masks mandates, the ability to peacefully assemble for church, or have a large family party. But if the the speech is protesting against Trump, then social distancing is not even an issue worth discussing.

SGT Ted said...

The soft tyranny of Rule via Credentialism has been with us for quite some time. The COVID crisis simply makes it all easier to see how it unfolds.

BUMBLE BEE said...

If this pandemic is so contagious why aren't the "front liners" dropping like flies?

stlcdr said...

Blogger rehajm said...
... We used to count on leaders to interpret...


"leaders": there is the problem right there. We attribute more capability to these leaders than they actually have. This is the big push by these leaders to confer leadership on themselves: specifically, they aren't so much 'leaders' as they want us to be followers.

They are representatives. They do not tell us what to do, they advise us - the people - only. We lead ourselves, ready to nominate local leaders whom we can interact with face-to-face where necessary, and disband them once a goal has been achieved.

RigelDog said...

Conspiracy-Hat time: How many people realize that the "flatten the curve" lock-down plan that we were sold on in March was a preexisting government study/plan whose premise was that in a future pandemic, maybe we should lock-down and quarantine everyone (which had never been done before) until the pandemic was over? When the plan was mapped-out and put on the shelf back during the Bush administration, the take on it was that although such a plan might prevent some loss of life from infection, the other effects on society, public health, and the economy would be so severe and also lead to loss of life that a lock-down would be unworkable.
So...weren't we sold on the idea of a TEMPORARY lock-down designed ONLY to permit the medical system to gear up and not become overwhelmed with the initial tsunami of cases? And yet, the plan they already had ready to put in place had nothing to do with a temporary suppression of the initial wave of near-exponential growth. The plan's specific goal was to severely restrict all activity for months and months and months until an infection basically disappeared.

Larry J said...


“Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.”

― C. S. Lewis

Wince said...

Althouse often starts a post with a quote that requires you to read to the end to learn the speaker and source.

In many of those blog posts, you can predict the quote was likely taken from the NYT or WaPo.

Reading a blog post like this you knew, for some reason, this could never appear in the pages of the NYT or the WaPo.

rehajm said...

Althouse and other early panickers: are you sorry yet for what you have wrought? I know you did not know how utterly destructive your attitudes and actions would be in the long term but you mocked and ridiculed those of us who tried to tell you and you have never admitted you were wrong. You WERE.

(STANDING OVATION..)

Bay Area Guy said...

I like this Italian philosopher. He's goin' places. He could be the next Immanuel Conti.

cyrus83 said...

Certainly much of the Western political class intends to never let the masses return to life as normal, and they aim to abolish most freedoms in the name of public health safety - and over a virus that, based on the latest numbers, has killed just less than 6 in 10000 in the US, with a tendency to kill mainly the old and infirm.

In New York, once the initial surge passed, the state found that 88% of new hospitalizations were coming either from people who were mainly staying home and not venturing out (66%) or nursing homes and assisted living facilities (22%). Only 2% could be traced back to any type of social gathering. The basic explanation here is the spread is mainly by aerosols in the air, and staying indoors in air that is not well circulated is likely the biggest risk factor to contracting it. In the Northeast, people stay indoors mainly in winter. In the South, they tend to stay inside in the warmer months, hence the surge down there when warmer weather hit.

Fear is a very potent force, and currently the public is so misinformed about the risks of this virus that a recent poll found that the US respondents on average believed nearly 9% of the population had died, when the real figure is something like 0.05%. Obviously the public would respond much differently to all this tyranny if they were not overestimating the virus's deadliness by a factor of more than 200.

People are free to be afraid if they wish, but your fear does not give you the right to deny everybody else their freedoms and rights. Unfortunately those who gave in to fear gave malicious people the ability to do that, and it will not be easy to regain them without a fight.

Drago said...

And now today, we have ChiCom controlled Tedros of the completely corrupted WHO giving the game away:

He is calling for the use of the pandemic to justify the implementation of global socialist rules to address....climate change.

Because that, as always, is the end goal of the left/dems/LLR-left.

n.n said...

A wicked solution to an actual, imagined, or manufactured hard problem? There is a progressive precedent.

Birkel said...

The fact - acknowledged by those who observe the facts without bias - is lockdowns have not worked to contain viral spread.

The same is true of masks; they do not work to stop illness.
That is true even if they stop Winnie Xi Flu because they lead to the increase of other diseases.

Trade offs are hard for some people to understand.

loudogblog said...

If the fear of getting sick drove people to give up their rights, the key to reversing this is to alleviate that fear. It will be interesting to see what happens once an effective vaccine is available to everyone. If the fear disappears, will the governments restore those rights and privacies or try to hold on to that power; and will the people forcefully demand those rights back if the governments try and keep those policies in place?

Francisco D said...

Temujin said...
The word 'science' has become a religious word. And it is used, as is religion, to prove moral superiority when convenient. It is also ignored when inconvenient.

The people touting "science" have no clue as to its practice and philosophical foundations.

When practiced properly, science is a method of discovery that advances very slowly and methodically. However, as Thomas Kuhn pointed out, it becomes a repetitive circle jerk until someone breaks free and starts a new way of thinking that makes significant breakthoughs.

In other words, the people who practice "science" are wrong far more often than they are right. However, their methodology is the only way I know of to eventually uncover reality.

The Cracker Emcee Refulgent said...

The long-term good news is that the cynicism engendered by the Kung Flu ineptitude will work like acid on the AGW narrative.

Science and scientists. Not the same thing, Man!

loudogblog said...

"I'm enjoying the lack of colds. I haven't had one for six months."

"Isn't it a little eerie? I haven't known anyone who has been sick since March. No one with flu, summer cold, etc."

I wonder, if this goes on for too long, if it might compromise our resistances to common ailments. There might be a tidal wave of colds, flu, strep, ect if the social distancing and increased hygiene suddenly stops because the Covid vaccine is extremely successful.

Jersey Fled said...

If the "something new" is not having to shake hands, I'm fine with that. I'm also fine with not flying. Remote work, ditto. Remote education for kids is cool, too. So is avoiding mass transit. I'm enjoying the lack of colds. I haven't had one for six months.

Spoken like someone who hasn't missed a paycheck.

BrianE said...

Something seldom mentioned is the taste of "socialism" this virus hath wrought.
Stay home and make more money than working.
Forget paying rent.
If this goes on long enough, the great unwashed might make this the default position.

Government distributes trillions of dollars without seeming consequences. At least no one has mentioned any consequences.

MountainMan said...

How a Free Society Deals with Pandemics, According to Legendary Epidemiology and Smallpox Eradicator Donald Henderson

An article from AIER that has been circulating this week that presents, in full, a report from 2006 in which Dr. Henderson was a contributor. I cannot get to the article whichProf. Althouse has linked due to paywall issue. This article may be similar and the 2006 paper may be similar in content. The 2006 report is not too long and is very readable. According to it we have done just about everything wrong. Some of you may find this interesting.

Kai Akker said...

"I'm enjoying the lack of colds. I haven't had one for six months." [John Lynch]

Isn't it a little eerie? I haven't known anyone who has been sick since March. No one with flu, summer cold, etc. [Lewis Wetzel]

But colds are coronaviruses and researchers are beginning to think they are what give 30%-50% of us resistance against Covid. Thus the preexisting T cells they find in people who were never infected with Covid.

Jupiter said...

It's too bad there isn't a drug that we could all take so that we wouldn't get this disease. What do you suppose the totalitarian fascists running our governments would say if such a drug were found? Probably exactly what they are saying about HCQ. Huh.

narciso said...

ironic isn't it,

https://www.redstate.com/mike_miller/2020/08/22/and-there-it-is-who-director-uses-covid-to-push-worldwide-climate-change-agenda/

MadTownGuy said...

Ferdinandinande said...


"Social distancing" used to mean avoiding lowlifes."

That's why hereinafter I choose the term "physical distancing." Ain't nothing 'social' about it.

Jupiter said...

"Remote "education" at scale is a disaster for the vast majority of children and the parents, even though it has helped to further expose some of the leftist tactics used to promote marxist ideology."

Public education is a disaster for the vast majority of children, tolerated only because it allows both parents to work for the same amount of money that used to be paid to one of them.

DanTheMan said...

>>We imagine that we are hanging back from a life to which we can return, but we will never go there again.

We will not be allowed to go there again. The wise masters have decided this. For our own good, of course.



Jupiter said...

"The ngram for "social distancing" has the same shape as the ngram for many "woke" terms, namely its popularity starts exploding about 1960,"

What you are seeing there is the advent of "sociology" and "political science" as widely practiced academic hoaxes. We're paying a lot of money to the filthy vermin who are dreaming up new lies to enslave us.

Rabel said...

"This means there is no level of cases or deaths below which locking down an entire nation of 60 million becomes unreasonable."

Paranoia strikes deep.

On the other hand, can the non-"panickers" tell us if there is any level of cases or deaths above which not "locking down" an entire nation becomes unreasonable.

stevew said...

MA to require flu vaccine for public school students and child care

If they are going to do remote learning why is this required? This is that slippery slope people talk about. Good thing I don't live there any longer, they'd be calling me an ANTI-VAXXER!

Joe Smith said...

@Althouse

"We imagine that we are hanging back from a life to which we can return, but we will never go there again. Something new is coming into being."

This sentence is one of the most prescient things I've read about this entire mess. Scary and exciting at the same time.

Even if we can go back, and even if we should go back, I think people are too cautious in general, and the media and politicians are pushing too hard just so we do not go back. They will have more control over us now.

There will be brave sheep and cautions sheep. But there will be only sheep.

I am formulating plans to exit the merry-go-round. Off the grid in Montana is looking better and better.

rhhardin said...

Social distancing is good engineering. The disease dies out if the average infected person infects fewer than 1.0 others. Herd immunity is one way of getting that (not enough vulnerable people to get the average up to 1.0) and another is just infecting fewer people, stay away and masks.

They work also in combination. Some way to herd immunity and alo social distancing also gets you below 1.0, and the disease dies out sooner than with actual herd immunity.

mtrobertslaw said...


"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts."

Richard Feyman

Yancey Ward said...

This is my surprised face 😂.

Can we guess which commenters don't want to engage in this thread? Which of the Karens has the courage to stand up and defend what has happened?

I warned all of you in March that what was being done didn't have any limiting principles. In fact, I repeatedly asked the Karen Army to define what would limit such governmental power in the future, and not a single fucking one of them gave an answer. I tried again earlier this week to get one of them to explain why these same policies won't be continued every single Winter from here on (or even year round given that flu doesn't actually disappear in Summer, it is just at a lower level).

Get use to wearing your face diapers for at least the next decade, and getting your COVID-19 vaccine every three to six months if you want to continue to work anywhere other than home.

Rhhardin, I try to attribute this to incompetence, but malice looks more and more likely. Incompetence doesn't keep the knee on the neck once the idiocy is apparent to anyone with an IQ above body temperature.

Birkel said...

Mike (MJB Wolf):

A good conservative friend of mine was getting a Master in Public Health many years ago.

He predicted with great clarity how and why the public health apparatus would be turned to totalitarian ends.
That was in 1998 or 1999.

One data point but he understood the language of his professors to be proto-totalitarian.
Leftist Collectivists, the lot.

Hammond X. Gritzkofe said...

Correct, and generally well said.

Mrs. HXG observed some time ago that we are experiencing a quantum increase in presumptive power of Government - something like expansion of Federal power in the Civil War. As these things go, the change will likely to be "permanent" - until a tipping point is reached. (No, aint gonna use the "i" word.)

The insanity is astonishing:
..restricting well persons to isolation at home.
..destruction of small business
..reduced access to government meetings and public records
..major opportunities for graft and wastage (e.g. construction/conversion of medical facilities that are never used; free computers for all students).

============
On a somewhat related note, I am thankful for the Presidency of DJT on two counts:
..he aint Hillary;
..he broke the glass mold of elected government office being the exclusive province of the political class.

That said, DJT aint no Libertarian. He is as willing as any to buy votes with OPM (other people's money) - $600.00 weekly checks.

We wait with baited breath (smells like chum) for the continued governance of DJT, and hope he honors the "American Dream" - to be just left t.f. alone by Government.

Big Mike said...

When people are scared they’ll do what they’re told. Asshat elites have known this for millennia.

So what happens when most of us aren’t scared anymore? And frightened of them least of all?

hstad said...

Why is anyone surprised at how government reacts in times of manufactured crises? Look, Biden wants to mandate wearing a 'mask' which has no efficacy and scientific findings that support resisting viruses - none. Here are just 2 studies:

Smith, J.D. et al. (2016) “Effectiveness of N95 respirators versus surgical masks in protecting health care workers from acute respiratory infection: a systematic review and meta-analysis,” CMAJ Mar 2016 https://www.cmaj.ca/content/188/8/567
“We identified six clinical studies … . In the meta-analysis of the clinical studies, we found no significant difference between N95 respirators and surgical masks in associated risk of (a) laboratory-confirmed respiratory infection, (b) influenza-like illness, or (c) reported work-place absenteeism.”
Offeddu, V. et al. (2017) “Effectiveness of Masks and Respirators Against Respiratory Infections in Healthcare Workers: A Systematic Review and Meta-Analysis,” Clinical Infectious Diseases, Volume 65, Issue 11, 1 December 2017, Pages 1934–1942, https://academic.oup.com/cid/article/65/11/1934/4068747
“Self-reported assessment of clinical outcomes was prone to bias. Evidence of a protective effect of masks or respirators against verified respiratory infection (VRI) was not statistically significant”; as per Fig. 2c therein:

This is about the 'Elite' trying to control us. Government stating 'trust me I'm from the government and I'm here to help you' is a time worn lie. Government and its employees work only one way - self-interest, protecting and expanding their 'turf'.

Kai Akker said...

"I warned all of you in March that..." [YWard]

That there would only be a few thousand deaths?

Temujin said...

http://www.alexberenson.com

He talks about this in both his Covid booklets.
The anointing of 'experts' in science is a problem. Science as data- yes. Science as politics- no. Science as personality over data- Hell no.

effinayright said...

I may have reported that in Mass. the government has removed the cumulative covid death-by-age group data from its daily dashboard, allowing it to conveeeeniently avoid showing that 95% of deaths are among the over-60 cohort, and most of them nursing home patients to boot.

ZERO kids under twenty have died from covid in Mass. Only two hundred or so between 20 and 50.

But what better way to frighten the kids and the rest of the population than to bury that information?

On top of that, Mass. now offers a separate weekly report that shows covid data for the trailing two weeks. They report death-by-age group death for the two weeks there, but ....it doesn't match the data given day-by-day on the dashboard! For the period I checked, the dashboard showed 144 deaths, while the weekly report showed...14.

Incompetence. Duplicity. Political chicanery. All three? Or take yer pick.

effinayright said...

"That said, DJT aint no Libertarian. He is as willing as any to buy votes with OPM (other people's money) - $600.00 weekly checks."
**************

So he should have let millions suddenly find themselves with the means to buy food, pay rent etc?

Is that a "libertarian" position? To set in motion a nation-wide panic and complte destruction of civil society?

hstad said...

Blogger Jupiter said..."...It's too bad there isn't a drug that we could all take so that we wouldn't get this disease...?"8/22/20, 11:10 AM

I'm assuming you mean Covit? There are over 1 million viruses and only two in the history of mankind resulted being stopped with a vaccine - Smallpox for humans and Rinderpest for cows. I have no hope for Covit. They have not come up anything for SARS which is over 20 years old and still around.

But "Jupiter" my initial thought to your question wasn't Covit it was the inability of humans to resist the siren call of government edicts - that's the devastation disease. Just look at the actions of the 'Clown' Cuomo in NY and his edicts about 'Nursing Homes'and the resultant thousands of deaths. Copied by several so-called other leaders. Government actions have killed more people throughout history vs. Viruses. Just remember that the next time we are asked to give up our liberties in a shutdown. The irony - a so-called Socialist country [not really] Sweden did the opposite.

BUMBLE BEE said...

Birkel... My longtime M.D. friend said exactly that couple years ago.

MountainMan said...

An interesting article from Michael Totten: The Enduring Relevance of "The Plague"

Drago said...

Gov. Gretchen Whitmer of Michigan comes to mind. She's a mess. In another era she'd be seen as governing by use of darts on a dart board that has only carefully selected choices for those darts to land on.

I have to warn you, any criticism of any type for any reason directed at far left lunatic Gov Whitmer of MI is ALWAYS followed by unhinged attacks against the critic by LLR-lefty Chuck who will not tolerate anything other than subservient love and adoration for Whitmer.

Paco Wové said...

After picking itself up from last week's big storm, the city council of Ames, Iowa, decided to institute a "mask mandate", though nobody at the moment seems sure of what that means. It did this despite opposition from the Governor, the state Attorney General, and the city's own attorney. The vote was 4-2; all women on the council voted in favor, all the men against.

Drago said...

Big Mike: "So what happens when most of us aren’t scared anymore? And frightened of them least of all?"

We are already well on our way to a society run by the dems with big tech providing Social Credit scoring for its "citizens" and your Social Credit score is what will enable, at first, your ability to access government programs/funds (social security, VA, etc) to be followed by Health care, then private employment and then, potentially, food.

Social Credit scores are already in place in China (thanks Google "Do no evil", and represented by "conservative" Susan Molinari of Staten Island) and in Venezuela your allegiance to the socialist regime determines your ability to get food and healthcare.

Also in Venezuela, the socialist regime has armed, with fully automatic weapons, their cuban trained "antifa" types who ride around on motorcycles shooting people who defy the socialist government.

Sound familiar?

Because that is precisely what the leftists/dems/LLR-leftists have in store for us.....unless they are stopped.

Reelecting Trump is the only hope we have of stopping the marxist onslaught, which is why the marxists like LLR-lefty Chuck are so adamant about stopping him.

Brand said...

Gov. Gretchen Whitmer of Michigan comes to mind. She's a mess. In another era she'd be seen as governing by use of darts on a dart board that has only carefully selected choices for those darts to land on.

In another era?!? As best we in Michigan can determine, darts are her preferred method of determining "science." For example, Michigan is only one of two states that ban gyms from opening. When the gym owners sued, the Federal judge issued an injunction because the Whitmer administration produced no basis for their order. (This was reversed on appeal, with two judges saying there is a presumption of correctness in the executive orders.)

rehajm said...

...because the Covid vaccine is extremely successful.

The current data is looking more and more like the pandemic will be long over before the vaccine arrives.

Jupiter said...

"On the other hand, can the non-"panickers" tell us if there is any level of cases or deaths above which not "locking down" an entire nation becomes unreasonable."

No. There is no level of cases or deaths that justifies sequestering the healthy as a precautionary measure. There cannot be a justification for something that doesn't work. If the goal is to prevent me from getting Covid, I can lock myself down, without any help from the fascist lunatic my fellow Oregonians elected Governor. If the goal is to prevent those with Covid from giving it to others, it must first be established who has Covid. The presumption that "experts" can determine which activities are "essential", and that all others may "reasonably" be outlawed, is a degree of totalitarianism that would have made Stalin blanch. Well. Khrushchev, anyway.

Rabel said...

"No. There is no level of cases or deaths that justifies sequestering the healthy as a precautionary measure."

I disagree but appreciate the honesty.

Narr said...

Can't believe nobody has mentioned the Therapeutic State yet (at least in the comments).

Narr
ngram that

I Have Misplaced My Pants said...

There is no level of public health threat that justifies loss of liberty. I don’t care if fifty percent of the population is bleeding out in the street. That door must remain closed. Government can inform the public, make recommendations; individuals and institutions can make whatever decisions they choose to protect themselves and their stakeholders. Government may not impose broad requirements and restrictions on me for my own good or for your good. If it can, we do not live in a free country, and furthermore that power will always be extended to whatever *actual* ends the heath threat is just a smokescreen for.

Besides, if you actually cared about public health, you’d likely be interested in the fact that covid response has hurt and killed more people than the disease. So even if it were reasonable to kill liberty to save lives (which it’s not) your side didn’t even accomplish that.

n.n said...

is any level of cases or deaths above which not "locking down" an entire nation becomes unreasonable

Infections, disease, excess deaths, and collateral damage. How we respond depends on several factors, including: transmission modes (e.g. vulnerable populations) and collateral damage on an immediate and forward-looking basis.

The current data is looking more and more like the pandemic will be long over before the vaccine arrives.

The statistics indicate that the peaks preceded the restrictive mandates, and the observational and retrospective evidence is that the excess deaths could have largely, mostly reduced through early treatment, special consideration for vulnerable populations (e.g. Planned Parent), and behavioral normalization between demographics.

Michael S. Kochin said...

Mike Dukakis, more Presidential at 86 than Biden was at 46.
https://www.telegram.com/news/20190926/former-governor-dukakis-talks-political-involvement-campaign-strategy-at-clark

Rabel said...

"There is no level of public health threat that justifies loss of liberty."

We differ in out view of the importance of the continuation of our country. Your view seems to me to be a recipe for national suicide.

What do you think about conscription in wartime?

Yancey Ward said...

"What do you think about conscription in wartime?"

I am against it. If a war effort can't be supported by volunteers, you need to rethink the war itself.

hstad said...

Oh, you mean this type of "health threat":

From Facebook:"...Bruce Carroll..."

Them: TRUMP SINGELHANDEDLY KILLED 170,000 AMERICANS!!!
ME: What should he have done?
Them: MASK MANDATES IN MARCH WOULD'VE SAVED 50,000 LIVES!!!
Me: But in March, the World Health Organization, the U.S. Surgeon General, and Dr. Fauci said we shouldn't use Masks???
Them: WHY ARE YOU SUCH A RACIST NAZI???

Jupiter said...

"What do you think about conscription in wartime?"

I think it is prohibited by the 13th Amendment. But here's an idea. Let's make all the doctors and nurses work for free. Just until the emergency is over. Unless there's another one.

Jupiter said...

"We differ in out view of the importance of the continuation of our country. Your view seems to me to be a recipe for national suicide."

You seem to have missed my assertion that a measure cannot be justified if it is not effective.

But setting that to one side, you seem to be saying that when, in the opinion of an elected official, the nation is at risk, any rights that might interfere with that elected official's preferred plans for countering that risk cease to exist. Can you see any potential for abuse in that doctrine?

Michael K said...

The vote was 4-2; all women on the council voted in favor, all the men against.

That's our future. Yours, I should say because, while there is not much good about gettin old, one nice thing is not having to live with the ultimate 19th Amendment society. Or for long anyway.

Jon Burack said...

Amen on the Gretchen comments, from this Madison escapee to Michigan.

I wonder if the notion of making a fetish and a political cudgel out of "SCIENCE" could ever have received any notice from the New York Times at all if it had not come packaged in po-mo gibberish based on Foucault. Plenty of evidence for this fetishism with regard to COVID has been out there and has been argued in far better in detail and significance. For example, this long article on the disgraceful politicization of the issue of hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) is stunning on this score:

https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/science/articles/hydroxychloroquine-morality-tale

I note that Minnesota's very liberal Democratic governor has now rescinded his earlier ban on HCQ. I do not think Gretchen has, or likely will, given her mastery of the "SCIENCE."

Then there is the issue of school openings, about which a Brookings Institute study shows NO correlation whatsoever between levels of COVID infections in a county and its decision to open schools or keep them closed. What does that decision correlate with? How the county voted for or against Trump. Those for Trump much more likely to open, those voting against Trump, much more like not to open.

The big question is will this new form of fear become a standardized new normal such that as soon as an unusual disease kills one person society panics?

hstad said...

"In a country that respects science..." Really?

“…A mystery for months is how it is that so many governments in so many different places on earth could have adopted the same or very similar preposterous policies, no matter the threat level of the virus, and without firm evidence that interventions had any hope of being effective…”

All of which only increases one’s respect for the governments around the world that did not lock down, did not close business, did not shut down schools, did not mandate masks, and did not push some crazy kabuki dance of social distancing in perpetuity. South Dakota, Sweden, Taiwan, and Belarus come to mind. It takes an unusual and rare level of incredulity to avoid this kind of herd mentality.

RigelDog said...

rhhardin said:"They [RigelDog: lockdowns and herd immunity] work also in combination. Some way to herd immunity and also social distancing also gets you below 1.0, and the disease dies out sooner than with actual herd immunity."

Is this really the case? That may be true, but it doesn't fit with what I've read so far.

As I understand it, we have a situation where this particular virus isn't going to actually die out. Its transmission can be temporarily halted in a given population if successful isolation results in a transmission rate below 1.0---but, when COVID gets reintroduced to that population (and in today's world, it will), anyone who doesn't have immunity is again at risk of being infected. IOW, the more people not infected and subsequently immunized today because we have isolated/locked down, the more people who can contract and spread the disease in the future. On the other hand, when enough people in the given population become immune, then only an unlucky soul here and there will contract the disease when it comes around again.

John henry said...

Something that always annoys me is when people tell me to "trust the science" as if there is only one.

For example on general, non-medical, use of face mufflers. We are told to trust the science on this but which one? There are at least 3 sciences (scientific viewpoints) on mufflers:

1) They protect others as well as oneself. While this is the most loudly promoted view, there seems to be precious little actual science behind it. There is a claim that "the" science tells us to do this but nobody ever shows us why the science supposedly says this.

2) The science that says masks provide no protection to wearer or others. Here we can actually see the science in the form of studies (CDC, Lancet, others) showing this. We also have CDC, Fauci, WHO and others first saying this and now saying that they were lying about the science. We should believe them now when they say face masks do some good.

3) Face masks not only provide no benefit to wearer or others but they are harmful to the wearer (collecting germs etc and providing a breeding ground) and to others (false sense of security)

There are other "sciences" but they are mostly variations on these three.

So when we "trust the science" which "science" should we trust?

John Henry

John henry said...

Brazil never did a lockup.

We hear a lot in the news about how poorly they are doing with the kung flu.

Looking at Worldometer just now, I see that they are doing a bit better than the US.

Brazil - 534deaths/mm
US - 543

Statistically the same, I would guess but Brazil did not destroy, even temporarily, their economy.

17,593 cases/mm - US
16,658 Brazil

I'm too lazy to do the math but it looks like total recovered for both countries is about the same.

John Henry

Hey Skipper said...

@Kai Akker

“ I warned all of you in March that..." [YWard]

That there would only be a few thousand deaths?”

I remember Yancey Ward’s prediction circa mid-March — 7500 Commie Cough fatalities.

So, pretty far off what looks like being a couple hundred thou.

But Yancey was waaaay closer to the actual number than contemporary expert (dammit, where are my scare quotes when I need them?) predictions. Which were so wrong as to give the very concept of wrong a bad name.

Odd you don’t notice that.

Fernandinande said...

An interesting article from Michael Totten: The Enduring Relevance of "The Plague"

City Journal is on my "morning read" but I skipped that article because we're not having a plague, we're having the equivalent of a bad but not terrible flu season accompanied by a government over-reaction to it. But now I read it.

"The Plague ... hardly anyone who reads it ever forgets it."

Partly true for me, I read it when I was a kid and vividly remember its description of a kid's painful death.

Article: During the great “Spanish flu” pandemic in 1918, most Western governments, including America’s, never publicly mentioned the disease.

That's not true. I not sure what, if anything, the US federal gov't "mentioned" about it, but back in 1918 the Constitution still existed and diseases were not a federal issue.

US cities like St Louis and San Francisco did a lot more than just "mention" the flu, they imposed restrictions on citizens and SF tried to require mask-wearing, leading to some riots.

FWIW, words not in the Constitution: disease, health, plague.

This part of the article was silly: "though Camus never properly experienced a plague or a pandemic himself...—he captures what it feels like precisely.

How does the article's author claim to know what a plague feel like? (inserting "pandemic" is bogus since Camus was writing about a plague, not a mere pandemic).

This part of the article was also silly: "The enemy doesn’t think, doesn’t hate. It doesn’t even meet all the definitions of a life form—least of all, a wrathful, sentient one."

Bacteria most certainly meet all the definition of life, in fact bacteria are still the main life-form on Earth, and the only life-form which all other life forms depend on. Wrath and sentience are irrelevant.

Gospace said...

Jupiter asks what if there was a drug we could the that would keep us from getting the disease?

HCQ may be the answer- I'll get to that. But suppose we had a drug we could administer that would reduce the death rate from the disease to zero or nearly so? UK study shows great promise in using a steroid for more seriously ill patients, but doesn't claim the same results as Dr. Bartlett.

So let's get back to HCQ. Will it stop covid if taken as a prophylactic? Before you have any symptoms at all? If it's going around? We actually have the answer to that- but curiously, no one in the medical establishment has looked at it. Last number I could find- the actual number seems to be hidden now by google- over 50,000 patients in the U.S. were using HCQ to treat rheumatoid arthritis and systemic lupus erythematosus. Over 50,000. That's a very large control group. And- even more- they're not young people for the most part, they tend towards being older people more at risk of dying for it. And, if you remember- some DEMOCRAT governors used the excuse we couldn't give the easily and cheaply produced HCQ to covid patients because there wouldn't be enough for the other sick people. What's the covid sick and death rate among that control group? Seems if the CDC wanted to know he answer- we could have it tomorrow. Why don't we know? Conspiracy thought- THEY, the mysterious THEY that control the world, don't want us to know. I'll go with THEY being anti-Trumpers in the medical establishment. Real simple sample of people to look at. Rheumatoid arthritis and systemic lupus erythematosus patients who've been taking it more than, let's say. 6 months at the outset of covidiocy. The medical establishment knows who these people are. As do their pharmacies.

It's like the control group of young healthy people we have- active duty military. According to airforcemag.com 5 military deaths among about 2 million active duty, reserve, and guard personnel. And I finally found a breakdown at Stars and Stripes (stripes.com)- one death among 1.3 million active duty- from the USS Theodore Roosevelt with the panicked medical department, 3 NG, one Army reservist. One reservist under 40, everyone else older. The odds of them all having a comorbidity but the military not telling us- 99.9%. Young healthy people don't die of covid- we have a control group that shows it- though all my liberal friends believe otherwise.

Guildofcannonballs said...

Outside of a society, expertise conveys lots and lots of things to talk about if one engages in scientific discussion about actual expertise, which is rare.

Talking about, not "of" or maybe "through" or def not ""with"" expertise is common, not rare.

I'd like to thank everyone, like the kid in A Christmas Carol did.

Also, I wanna see someone (else) put out these lyrics soon:

Have a holly jolly Christmas,

It's the best time of the year.

Have a holly jolly Christmas,

In case you didn't hear.

Have a holly jolly Christmas.

Plan now so that this December 25th is all God wants it to be. Yes we will fail, nearly 100%. Don't matter, trying and not quitting is what matters most.

We shall overcome.

Jupiter said...

"So let's get back to HCQ. Will it stop covid if taken as a prophylactic? Before you have any symptoms at all? If it's going around? We actually have the answer to that- but curiously, no one in the medical establishment has looked at it."

Good point, but actually, it was the fact that people taking HCQ for other causes did not get Covid that first called Chinese doctors attention to HCQ. And there are LOTS of doctors taking it right now as a prophylactic. Of course, if all of us took it, and it worked, then we would have to keep taking it forever, so maybe it's best to just take our lumps and get it over with. Which logic, by the way, applies equally well to masks and social distancing.

Gospace said...

I detest using my phone to comment with. I copy/pasted for my last post and it still left things out. This is my first and last Apple iPhone. Had better results with my Android.

Dr. Richard Bartlett of Texas is using an inhaled steroid, Budesonide, to treat covid patients, claims 100% success, no deaths. Searching his name comes up with links.

Michael K said...

What's the covid sick and death rate among that control group? Seems if the CDC wanted to know he answer- we could have it tomorrow.

My wife takes HCQ for RA and has for years. She also has High IgE immunodeficiency. In June she got what we think was Covid and was sick as hell for 4 days. Her internist and the hospitalist agree she had it and the HCQ aborted the case. Her pcr and ab tests were negative.

Your points are very well taken.

I Have Misplaced My Pants said...

The vote was 4-2; all women on the council voted in favor, all the men against.

This is the real problem. I squarely blame American women for the receptiveness to, and ongoing support for, the malreaction. It's not all women, and not all men are sensible about this, but in general this jackass festival / dumpster fire would not be possible absent general female emotionalism, irrationality, preference for [the appearance of] safety over liberty and short term / small picture thinking.

I don't know about you guys but I can name five or ten women in my circle who would benefit from some misogynistic, borderline abusive, old school treatment from their husbands: a good shake to the shoulders, a 'get ahold of yourself!!' and a stern 'stop scrolling that goddamn phone looking for doom porn or I'll crush it under the car tire!' But instead all the beta husbands I know keep their mouths shut and let their women keep the family under a permanent fear cloud unjustified by the facts.

Anyone who thinks there is going to be some pushback against mask mandates and closed schools doesn't know enough comfortable suburban wives who are dumb and spoiled enough to think the only thing that can ever hurt them is covid.

Guildofcannonballs said...

"And the horror is that we have all gone along with it."

The Blacks murdered for the not 100% correct ideology don't concur.

BUMBLE BEE said...

George Carlin foretold Covid... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X29lF43mUlo

BUMBLE BEE said...

I'm old enough to remember a government agent saying "we had to destroy the village to save it".

BUMBLE BEE said...

The dying has only begun, from the destruction of our country.

Guildofcannonballs said...

I hope everyone knows Lynyrd Skynird or whatever is the greatest band of all time, musicy

Joe Smith said...

I am so fucking tired of liberals and Democrats telling me that they are the party of Science!®

The same people who think girls are boys, boys are girls, and that there are 57 genders.

The same people who tell me the oceans will rise and drown the cities, but whose leaders continue to buy beach-front property.

The same people who think raising income tax rates will result in more revenue.

The same people who say 18-year-olds are stupid, but want to lower the voting age to 16.

wildswan said...

Yancey Ward and I Have Misplaced my Pants

You were right when you said this was not real and I was wrong. I was absolutely convinced that this would be like the Spanish flu, or worse, due to increased facilities for spreading world-wide and due to the fact that it spreads very quickly and easily. I now see that it spreads easily but it only threatens certain high-risk groups, already at high risk from other causes. So, while I supported population-wide public health measures in the beginning, I now think that assisting high risk populations and leaving everyone else alone to get on with life is the correct public health measure. Why aren't we doing that? There are no real controls on public health decrees as we are finding out. They can do anything to schools, businesses and individuals and, even if shown to be wrong because they disregarded the data, there are no penalties. This naturally is very attractive to the tyrants, petty and otherwise among us. But there are some rules: a public health decree must be needed, proportionate, and not do harm. The public health goal is to assist the society to flourish. If covid was the Spanish flu cubed as we were all told from Trump on down by the "experts," then we did the right things back in February/ March. Restrict travel, even lockdown. But when we came to understand that it was not the Spanish flu, not even "the flu", that covid kills a certain high-risk population then we should not have continued the population wide strategy and in fact, it was discontinued nationally. That is, The CDC, Fauci and then Trump, stopped supporting it. But states then instituted or rather left in place the rules passed under the previous public health strategic understanding, the population-wide strategy. States, like New York and Wisconsin are even becoming more arbitrary as months go one and their states get poorer. They are closing schools and businesses under public health decrees counting on the fact that there is no way to penalize or prevent or stop the misuse of public health powers. This is a gap in our legislation. The problem is that There's no way to stop covid from spreading whether society is open or closed but some governors have made that their goal. Since it's unachievable they will never have to give up their power to close and throttle churches, schools and businesses. However that doesn't conform to public health's goal: to help society flourish. And it isn't based on need, it's disproportionate, it's harmful and that's against the overall body of public health law. Although we can't get at the public health officials, we could, I think, challenge social institutions such as the transit system or a given public school system as to whether they have exercised due diligence in accepting a public health decree instead of pushing back against it. There is no doubt in my mind that MPS is harming public school children by not opening and the harm is not coming from a response to a need; it is coming from a refusal to give up the population-wide strategy and to go over to an assist-those-at high-risk strategy. The MacIver Report on covid in Milwaukee shows that only 15 deaths have come from outside a defined high-risk group which is not involved at all with the schools - the high risk group within which deaths are occurring is those over 65 with one or more other major health risks, living in Milwaukee County, especially those living in an old-age home. If our metric was number of deaths within various population groups rather than number of cases in general, we could re-open society. Who is it that doesn't want a flourishing society and why are they being allowed by regular government to abuse the powers of public health?

cyrus83 said...

Since not every state and not every country followed the same policies, we do have some baselines of what happened in cases where no lockdowns were done and no mandates were imposed, and we can make comparisons.

Sweden, for example, is a country that did next to nothing - no lockdowns, no masks, mostly just advice to the citizenry. Death rate is 575 per million per Worldometers, but on the other hand, they seem to be largely done with the virus, with a 7-day average daily death count down to 1 person per day.

South Dakota, a state which also has chosen not to do lockdowns or mask mandates, has a death rate of 181 per million and their 7-day daily death rate has never exceeded 2 people.

The US, for all the measures we've thrown at this thing, has a death rate of 544 per million. But of course we are not done with COVID, in part because measures taken to flatten the curve necessarily extend the duration of the virus. That was the trade-off involved with lockdowns, they only ever made sense if the health system was being overwhelmed, and that never happened.

We are about 10,000 deaths away from passing the mortality rate of the country in Europe that did nothing, and of course there is the state of South Dakota which is doing much better than the national average by doing nothing. That suggests that the experts have vastly oversold government's ability to do anything about stopping a contagious respiratory disease once it's here.

Like most colds and flus, it will run its course, the population will gain herd immunity to it, and then nature will send a fresh mutated round of them at us this coming winter season, as it has done every year and will do every year until the end.

The scientists and experts who pushed for lockdowns have a lot of explaining to do because by the most important parameter of success - deaths - it can reasonably be said that we saved no lives at the cost of trillions of dollars of economic damage, to say nothing of the societal damage and loss of freedoms.

Greg The Class Traitor said...

Blogger Rabel said...
On the other hand, can the non-"panickers" tell us if there is any level of cases or deaths above which not "locking down" an entire nation becomes unreasonable.


Sure. When you get a highly contagious disease with a 50%+ fatality rate, you lock down.

When you have a disease with a < 3% fatality rate, concentrated among people who aren't actually working, then you don't shut down

Bunkypotatohead said...

The state mandated masks will prevent the facial recognition software that the state is purchasing from ever being effective. Another case of the gov't left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing.
The unintended consequences of this over reach will be interesting to witness, like the liberal government of Portlandia seeing its allies burning the place down. What happens when antifa goes national and riots against president Biden's 3 month rule of masks everywhere 24/7?

SeanF said...

Fernandinande: This part of the article was also silly: "The enemy doesn’t think, doesn’t hate. It doesn’t even meet all the definitions of a life form—least of all, a wrathful, sentient one."

Bacteria most certainly meet all the definition of life...


It's coronavirus, not coronabacteria.

I Have Misplaced My Pants said...

Who is it that doesn't want a flourishing society and why are they being allowed by regular government to abuse the powers of public health?

Well phrased question and I am baffled by it. I have no idea. Lizard people? Stupid people who don't understand the damage they are doing?

I Have Misplaced My Pants said...

Who is it that doesn't want a flourishing society and why are they being allowed by regular government to abuse the powers of public health?

Well phrased question and I am baffled by it. I have no idea. Lizard people? Stupid people who don't understand the damage they are doing?

MadTownGuy said...

MountainMan said...
"How a Free Society Deals with Pandemics, According to Legendary Epidemiology and Smallpox Eradicator Donald Henderson

An article from AIER that has been circulating this week that presents, in full, a report from 2006 in which Dr. Henderson was a contributor. I cannot get to the article whichProf. Althouse has linked due to paywall issue. This article may be similar and the 2006 paper may be similar in content. The 2006 report is not too long and is very readable. According to it we have done just about everything wrong. Some of you m..ay find this interesting.
"

I was able to open the article in an incognito tab and to get the original paper here: Disease Mitigation Measures in the Control of Pandemic Influenza

Kirk Parker said...

"The unintended consequences of this over reach will be interesting to witness, like the liberal government of Portlandia seeing its allies burning the place down"

Well, they aren't really allies in the first place; frenemies at best.

hstad said...


Blogger Yancey Ward said..."What do you think about conscription in wartime?"I am against it. If a war effort can't be supported by volunteers, you need to rethink the war itself.
8/22/20, 2:28 PM

Yancy Ward I wanted to ask you this question, but did not have the time. However, I wanted to hear you answer to your conclusion.

How would you have done your "...rethink the war itself..." for WW2 or the Civil War?