August 25, 2020

"Coming into the convention, I thought I would be making fun of the gun-wielding McCloskeys’ predictably lame speech at the Republican National Convention."

"Instead, I realized just how well their story would play to a lot of folks I know. Now, if you’re a liberal Democrat who lives in a cosmopolitan area, you probably won’t appreciate this. But if you’re a suburban college-educated mom who voted for Mitt Romney and Marco Rubio, you probably found yourself nodding along more than you might have imagined."

Writes Matt Lewis at The Daily Beast. I can't read the whole thing because it's "members only." But, here, watch it yourself:



It's easy enough to imagine what Matt Lewis wrote. Harder, actually, to imagine why Lewis and his "cosmopolitan" Democrats just don't understand their fellow Americans who want to defend their homes with guns.

ADDED: Here's the transcript:

Mark McCloskey: (01:38:16)
Good evening America. We are Mark and Patty McCloskey. We’re speaking to you tonight from St. Louis, Missouri, where just weeks ago you may have seen us defending our home as a mob of protesters descended on our neighborhood.

Patricia McCloskey: (01:38:29)
America is such a great country that not only do you have the right to own a gun and use it to defend yourself, but thousands of Americans will offer you free advice on how to use it, at least that’s what we experienced. What you saw happened to us could just as easily happen to any of you who are watching from quiet neighborhoods around our country. That’s what we want to speak to you about tonight.

Mark McCloskey: (01:38:54)
That’s exactly right. Whether it’s the defunding of police, ending cash bails or criminals can be released back out on the streets the same day to riot again, or encouraging anarchy and chaos on our streets, it seems as if the Democrats no longer view the government’s job as protecting honest citizens from criminals, but rather protecting criminals from honest citizens. Not a single person in the out of control mob you saw at our house was charged with a crime, but you know who was? We were. They’ve actually charged us with felonies for daring to defend our home.

Mark McCloskey: (01:39:36)
On top of that, consider this. The Marxist liberal activist leading the mob to our neighborhood stood outside our home with a bull horn screaming, “You can’t stop the revolution.” Just weeks later, that same Marxist activist won the Democrat nomination to hold a seat in the US house of representatives in the city of St. Louis. That’s the same as winning the general election. That Marxist revolutionary is now going to be the congresswoman from the first district of Missouri. These radicals are not content with marching in the streets. They want to walk the halls of Congress. They want to take over. They want power. This is Joe Biden’s party. These are the people who will be in charge of your future and the future of your children.

Patricia McCloskey: (01:40:27)
They’re not satisfied with spreading the chaos and violence into our communities. They want to abolish the suburbs altogether by ending single family home zoning. This forestry zoning...
It took me a while to puzzle that out. She said "forced re-zoining"...
... would bring crime, lawlessness and low quality apartments into now thriving suburban neighborhoods. President Trump smartly ended this government overreach, but Joe Biden wants to bring it back. These are the policies that are coming to a neighborhood near you. So make no mistake, no matter where you live, your family will not be safe in the radical Democrats America.
I said at the time, listening to this last night, that many people will hear that as a racial dog whistle. You have to at least admit that she is saying that people with less money are more likely to be criminals. It's one thing to be afraid of the protesters who broke down the gate to the private street in front of their house. It's quite something else to be afraid of people who would become residents of your community if there were inexpensive apartments for rent.
Mark McCloskey: (01:41:03)
At this moment in history, if you stand up for yourself and for the values our country was founded on, the mob spurred on by their allies and the media will try to destroy you. You’ve seen us on your TV screens and Twitter feeds. You know that we’re not the kind of people who backed down. Thankfully, neither is Donald Trump. President Trump will defend the God given right of every American to protect their homes and their families. But more than that, Trump’s vision for America is a country where you have an opportunity to work hard and build the life you dream of with a job you love, with your children being educated in great schools in a community where your family can play in the backyard without fear, worship in a church without shame and express your beliefs without retribution. Trump brought us the greatest economy our country had ever seen. The Democrats have brought us nothing but destruction.

Patricia McCloskey: (01:42:06)
When we don’t have basic safety and security in our communities, we’ll never be free to build a brighter future for ourselves, for our children or for our country. That’s what’s at stake in this election and that’s why we must re-elect Donald Trump. God bless you. God bless the president and God bless the United States.

Mark McCloskey: (01:42:28)
And God bless the United States.

176 comments:

Xmas said...

I know that the husband is a lawyer, but if I was their lawyer, I wouldn't have let them do that.

That said, that was some effective stuff.

Lucid-Ideas said...

It will be easier for him and them to understand when they hear extremely rapid gunfire and supersonic bullets crackling in the air from near misses followed by the realization that him, and they, are leaking fluids.

Then he, and they, will get it. But maybe that's a stretch, maybe not even then.

Michael K said...

Aimed right at suburban moms. Now it needs to be an ad. Not enough people will see it at the convention. The best part was telling us how the radical organizer won the Democrat primary for Congress.

wendybar said...

When are we going to talk about Nancy Pelosi calling Trump and his supporters Enemies of state?? I think Nancy has gone POSTAL!!!!

AlbertAnonymous said...

Let’s face it. He’s not going to get a single vote from the Rioting/destroying Antifa types and their supporters, no matter what he says.

But there are a Shit Ton of people out there now like the McCloskeys. They want their law and order back. They want a rule of law that protects them and all they’ve created/earned over their lifetimes.

Trump in a landslide....

Sebastian said...

"how well their story would play"

Ah, yes. It's a story, and it might "play."

"Harder, actually, to imagine why Lewis and his "cosmopolitan" Democrats just don't understand their fellow Americans who want to defend their homes with guns."

Harder, but not impossible. Since they are progs and despise their deplorable bitter-clinging fellow citizens.

The only question is whether the nice women of America have caught on sufficiently to reject the party that in fact despises them.

wendybar said...

Funny how Lori Lightfoot can use taxpayer funded security for herself...but the police didn't come when the McCloskys called, so they get arrested for trying to keep their own house secure. Double standards much!???

Temujin said...

Very effective because what they said is true. It's in front of anyone with a functioning brain. The question is- will your functioning brain accept the evidence of your senses?

Tommy Duncan said...

"But you know who was charged with a crime?"

--Best line of the night.

Danno said...

Americans watch something and see two separate movies. I think that idea is from Scott Adams. Even the majority of your commenters used to wonder if you'd been lost to the view of those safely in their faculty lounge with a tenured position being a sinecure.

I credit (blame) Meade for this.

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...

that was great. Spot on.

The Marxists are marching.
The old democrat party is dead. The modern democrat party is now neo-Marxist fascism.

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...

Brave.

Something most Americans have lost.

Dave Begley said...

You can see why they are effective lawyers. Excellent and written by them.

Thistlerose said...

I bet they were surprised to find out which party is the one that is really willing to protect their rights and which party will try to put them in jail for asserting their rights. Effective ad.

No riots here but I have looked into taking a gun safety class just in case. Its been about 4 years since I did target shooting so a refresher would not be bad. I bet there are a lot of people like me. I don't own a gun, don't want to own a gun, but know how to use one and have access to one if the need arises.

Big Mike said...

What Wendybar wrote.

Brian said...

Just so everyone knows, the McCloskey's are not in some republican suburban stronghold. They live in the City of St. Louis. Their immediate homeowner area went for Hillary 80% to 20%.

They may have been in the 20%, but their neighbors weren't. The neighbors may be today.

AllenS said...

The biggest problem of owning a gun at the present time, is trying to find ammo.

richlb said...

Someone (ain't holding my breath) needs to ask Joe Biden what he would say to the McCloskeys and those who feel the same. I'd really love to know his answer.

BUMBLE BEE said...

This is why... https://twitter.com/RealJamesWoods/status/1296258860915683328

richlb said...

"I don't own a gun, don't want to own a gun, but know how to use one and have access to one if the need arises."

If you don't own a gun then you honestly won't have access to one when you need it.

Greg The Class Traitor said...

Harder, actually, to imagine why Lewis and his "cosmopolitan" Democrats just don't understand their fellow Americans who want to defend their homes with guns.

Lewis and his "cosmopolitan" Democrats are beneficiaries of the "leave it to professionals" delusion. Their entire livelihood comes from other people having the belief that "the professionals" do it better, and that therefore the job (and the pay) should be left to them.

Public safety is the job of the police. Doing it yourself? That's just wrong

This is a cross-Party delusion. On 9/11, the only successful American response to the terrorists was from a bunch of passengers who spontaneously got together, smashed down the door to the cockpit, and kept the terrorists from flying their plane into another building

What was Bush's response?

Spending lots of money on making stronger cockpit doors, so people couldn't "show up" the professionals that way in the future.

I thought their talk spent a bit too much time talking about the "Marxists" on the other side. (I thought it was all true, but the voters their targeting don't actually consider marxist a bad word.). But I thought their message: the Democrats are your enemy, and will help people who hate you to come and burn down your neighborhood, was a good and electorally powerful one

Mattman26 said...

I'm not so sure that opposition to "forced rezoning" (as I understand it, forbidding suburban communities from restricting areas to single-family residences) means you are "afraid of people who would become residents of your community if there were inexpensive apartments for rent."

Am I afraid of the people who might move in if an inexpensive apartment building replaced the single-family home across the street from mine? Fear is not my first instinct, although I won't deny I would find that undesirable.

I think this is a potent political point (alliterate much?) for the Republicans, and is an appeal to legitimate desires and concerns, not necessarily "fear."

wild chicken said...

The problem with apartments is the families who rent often are single parent, with bored kids who wander the neighborhood at night.

When the economy is bad, the landlord starts accepting Section 8 renters. Its all downhill after that.

I left such a neighborhood 18 years ago. I miss what it used to be, but it's gotten only worse since then.

Freder Frederson said...

Just so everyone knows, the McCloskey's are not in some republican suburban stronghold.

They live in a private, gated, neighborhood, that was specifically zoned to keep the riff raff (anyone non-white or working class) out. It is like a gated suburb in the middle of the city.

Why don’t Lewis and Cosmo Dems understand the right to self defense? Because they’re pussies who bend over and take it up the ass from blacks, the way they were taught, and they love it.

Maybe it is because we are not paranoid racists who think blacks want us to bend over and take it up the ass.

rcocean said...

"racial dog whistles" - Good grief. that's how insane the liberal bourgeois is about RACISM. We're not just concerned about actual REAL discrimination against people based on race, we're now concerned with any word or policy that *MIGHT* be racist. Its like living in the USSR and having people muttering about "Wreckers" and "Counter revolutionary thought". We wouldn't want to be the last person to stop clapping for that Anti-racist speech would we?

I'm surprised Althouse reads Matt Lewis. I've always found him to be an odd person. Like he's a liberal playing a part - in this case a "Conservative". Its interesting how often Matt uses phrases like: "If you were a conservative..." or "Conservatives might think..." thereby excluding himself. BTW, that he was he was ready to make fun of the gun-toting lawyers expresses a superiority supported by nothing.

Matt's whole career has been built on Liberals paying him to be a conservative. Which is why he has zero credibility with REAL conservatives.

Big Mike said...

From a tactical perspective there’s a great deal to criticize in what the McCloskeys did. I would not have come out of the house. But time and again rioters faced with an armed response have taken the prudent course of action and gone elsewhere. There’s a lesson there.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Most normal people understand that we need to have law and order and that we must have the right to defend ourselves from the ravening mob.

The majority of people are pragmatic and unwilling to take violent action against others, but are willing to protect themselves, their families and their communities when threatened.

The Leftists/Antifa etc think that they have cowed or frightened the people into submission. They don't understand that people are more patient and less inclined to resort to immediate violence. Until we are really pushed to action it will seem to the left that they are winning. However....push to far and too hard.... watch out.

HOWEVER>>>>> Beware the anger of a patient man. Irish proverb.

rcocean said...

That liberal republicans and Democrats are against someone defending their home against a violent mob just shows how strange and bizarre they are. Maybe they always were on the side of the criminals and are only now brave enough to show it. Or maybe they think any kind of criminal violence is OK if its Left-wing violence.

Kevin said...

Just so everyone knows, the McCloskey's are not in some republican suburban stronghold. They live in the City of St. Louis. Their immediate homeowner area went for Hillary 80% to 20%.

The McCloskeys used to vote Democrat.

That did not protect them from the mob.

Kevin said...

Is Joe going to come out in the next 48 hours and tell us he doesn't support the rioters?

Or stay quiet and remove all doubt?

mikee said...

The right to self defense is an inherent, inalienable, individual right that can only be infringed, never removed. Guns are just a tool for self defense. Gun rights are a barometer for the right to self defense.

Democrats prefer people who can't shoot at rioters. To hell with them and to hell with that.

MarKT said...

Watching the DNC and then the RNC tonight, I was reminded of an old zen story.

A man approached a zen master and told him that he is considering moving to his town, and wants to know what it is like.

"What was your old town like?"the master asked.

"It was an awful place. The people were selfish and mean and no one understood me."

"This town is very much like that. I do not recommend you move here."

Two days later another man arrived and asked the master the same question.

"What was your old town like?"

"It was terrific," the man said. "The people were friendly and helpful and I had many friends. I'm very sorry to have to leave."

"This town is very much like that," the master said. "I think you will be very happy here."

Kevin said...

Instead, I realized just how well their story would play to a lot of folks I know.

Take a good bite of that reality sandwich.

Now swallow hard.

Michael K said...

They live in a private, gated, neighborhood, that was specifically zoned to keep the riff raff (anyone non-white or working class) out. It is like a gated suburb in the middle of the city.

Which voted 80-20 for Hillary in 2016. Another brilliant analysis from the field marshal.

Michael K said...

Am I afraid of the people who might move in if an inexpensive apartment building replaced the single-family home across the street from mine? Fear is not my first instinct, although I won't deny I would find that undesirable.

Most people who own their homes, even with a big mortgage, know that home is their most valuable asset. Renters tend to diminish property values, even if they are not section 8 welfare recipients.

Thistlerose said...

If you don't own a gun then you honestly won't have access to one when you need it.

I have a brother who is a police officer who lives 5 mins from me. We discuss crime in the city. If there is any chance of violence such as the riot coming to my neighborhood I would know in plenty of time to get to his house and away from it. I do not live in an area where violent crime is a major worry. My point is I don't want to carry a firearm and it is not a good thing for the country that I am considering that I may need to look into it.

Bay Area Guy said...

Liberals won't arise from their fog, until the Mob comes for them.

Bay Area Guy said...

@DBQ:

"HOWEVER>>>>> Beware the anger of a patient man. Irish proverb."

Ahah! Tom Clancy used a variation of that in one of his great novels 30 years ago:

"Beware the fury of the patient man."

The Irish have a lotta great proverbs.

Bay Area Guy said...

The Democrats have adopted a political policy of (1) domestic rioting and (2) demonizing the cops.

If you're a middle of the road American, who has no beef with people of color, and simply wants to work, save, pay the bills, raise your kids, and have a peaceful life, you have to be a complete idiot to support the modern day Democrat Party.

Skeptical Voter said...

I think--although I could be wrong--that both of the McCloskeys are lawyers.

As for people coming forward and giving them advice on guns (after the fact) it would have been better if it was done before the fact. The pistol that Mrs. McCloskey was holding was inoperative--it hadn't been assembled correctly. The St. Louis District Attorneys office technicians took the pistol apart and reassembled it so that it was operative. Out in my part of the world we would call that tampering with the evidence.

As for whether the couple's lawyer would--or would not--have advised them not to make this statement--the crooked shyster of a District Attorney already has it in for them--as shown by the felony indictment, I doubt that groveling in silence and saying "pretty please I won't do it again" would be effective.

Big Mike said...

The McCloskeys used to vote Democrat.

That did not protect them from the mob.


Shouting "Hey! I'm on your side" does not protect you from the mob. Pointing an AR at the mob protects you from the mob.

Birkel said...

Freder Frederson knows the racial composition of an entire neighborhood in Saint Louis.
Leftist Collectivists just know things.

I hope the mobs visit you in your neighborhood, Freder Frederson.
I hope you get exactly what you want.
I hope you get a lot of it.

Chuck said...

Jim Swift at The Bulwark did a hilariously delightful column on this couple, with appropriate quotations of Missouri statute law that they may have violated.

https://thebulwark.com/the-missouri-gun-toting-lawyers-are-screwed/

Now back to the electoral concerns of suburban moms. I just gotta ask; are average voting suburban moms supposed to be sympatico with a couple standing in the front yard wielding semi-automatic firearms? That's a winning electoral message?

Sprezzatura said...

So, if you can’t kill all the not-rich folks, isn’t the smart strategy to promote cities to be magnets for loser people. They gotta go somewhere to keep them out of the suburbs, where housewives live.

BTW, maybe rural is the answer. There are already poor and average income folks there, thankfully those folks are not very noticeable to successful people in and around cities (even rich folks in rural places can keep plenty of distance from normal folks when yur in the country). It’s a win-win.

How do you relocate folks? Easy: use the private sector to build training schools where folks go when they break laws. From litter to the old broken taillight to making lots of private/gated access streets to so on. Then, have very high penalties, or if folks can’t pay, then they go to the private industry training school.

Then you have freedom and liberty again in America.

Duh.

Amadeus 48 said...

Richlb at 9:29 said--I'd really love to know his answer.

"Hi--Joe Biden here. Back in Scranton, we knew what to do to the bosses when they thought they were better than us. Why, we didn't wait for Halloween to give stuck-up jaspers like the McCloskeys the TP treatment. Corn Pop and I would take action. That palace of theirs would be festooned with toilet paper every night for a month. And Paddy the cop on the corner would just look the other way. Like Father Mike used to say, boys will be boys.

"So the McCloskeys want to deny other peoples' kids--little Black kids at that--a chance to live in a nice suburb and go to a good school and learn to be smart like white kids. Well, that figures. My running mate Kamala grew up in a cold water shotgun shack next to a cotton field. Her mamma and daddy could hardly read, but she got a chance to go to school and meet up with sharp operators like Willie Brown, God love him. And he was no a crack addict, unlike so many guys like him out there. No, Willie was on the people's work, morning, noon and night. San Francisco could use a mayor like him, not that showpiece they got now.

"The voices! Stop the voices!

"It's like I used to say back in Scranton: We have nothing to fear but fear itself."

Chuck said...

Kevin said...
...

The McCloskeys used to vote Democrat.
...


Of course they did; he is a personal injury lawyer, and she is active in MO state bar politics.

ga6 said...

Has anyone seen the video post from last week in which a counter protester with a bullhorn informs the Antifa folks: "when the cops are gone you will have to deal with us"? Coming to a community near you.

Also Milwaukee home owner fires warning shots:
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/08/dude-shooting-us-blm-militants-run-lives-milwaukee-homeowner-fires-warning-shots-protesters-neighborhood-video/

Owen said...

My only question for the McCloskeys is, why not stay in the house and let Claymores do the work?

Amadeus 48 said...

"The McCloskeys used to vote Democrat."

I am not sure about that. If you look at Open Secrets, you see that while they have made donations to members of the Carnahan clan, who are Democrats, they gave larger donations to GOP presidential campaigns.

Basil Duke said...

The bullhorn-wielding orc/triumphant U.S. Congressional primary candidate referenced is Cori Bush - a sassy communist who earlier this month defeated the only slightly less-repugnant incumbent, Lacy Clay. This horrid beast will, next year, become my congresscretin (Missouri's 1st Congressional District).

Krumhorn said...

It's quite something else to be afraid of people who would become residents of your community if there were inexpensive apartments for rent.

I agree that it’s a clear dog whistle, and to some, it might be a race whistle. But it’s not a racial issue to hope that folks who live in your neighborhood have the same stake as you do in maintaining it and in ensuring safety.

Try to imagine a homeless shelter placed next door in the large vacant home. Do those new neighbors have the same stake in preserving your safety and economic assets as you do? I think we have plenty of experience with the truth that only the folks (green, purple, red, or orange) who have worked and earned their place as your neighbors share the same need as you to preserve it.

It may be economic elitism, but not necessarily racial.

- Krumhorn

MikeR said...

"Coming into the convention, I thought I would be making fun of the gun-wielding McCloskeys’ predictably lame speech at the Republican National Convention." Matt Lewis outs himself as a hater and a bigot.

Greg The Class Traitor said...

Thistlerose said...
I don't own a gun, don't want to own a gun, but know how to use one and have access to one if the need arises.

Note:

1: The pistol she held was a prop for a court case, that had been disabled so it couldn't be fired
2: They didn't have any ammo for the rifle
3: The corrupt Soros backed DA for St. Louis had one of her henchmen send the pistol off to have it disassembled and reassembled correctly, so that it could shoot. Then they charged the couple with felony brandishing, which crime requires that they have working, loaded, guns

Which neither was

None of that necessarily applies to you

However:
4: How much time did the McCloskeys have to get a gun when "the need arose"? Hint: not long enough to get a gun that worked

If you don't own the gun, and have it in your home, with ammo, then when "the need arises" you're highly likely to find out you're SOL

Limited blogger said...

CNN and the left want these people to be cartoon characters.

Ends up they are just normal Americans.

MrEdd said...

We are told time and again that the root cause of crime is poverty. Is it so strange to conclude that poorer residents in an area will have a higher incidence of criminal behavior. Which is it? Is poverty the cause of crime or are poor people only as likely to engage in crime as more well to do people. When people decry the disproportion in some racial group's contact with the police, and the disproportionate instances of police/individual violent contact, I simply remind them that some racial groups suffer disproportionately from poverty and, as those same people insist, poverty causes criminal behavior. Requiring that poorer people be housed in more affluent neighborhoods does not change the economic status of the poor residents. They continue to be poor and poverty causes crime. Thus, the rate of criminality of the area will go up. Unless, of course, the assertion that poverty is the cause of crime is wrong.

Freder Frederson said...

That liberal republicans and Democrats are against someone defending their home against a violent mob just shows how strange and bizarre they are.

If the "violent mob" was actually violent or targeting the McCloskeys, I might have some sympathy for them. The protest was indeed loud, but not violent. Furthermore, the protest was merely passing in front of the house on their way to the Mayor's house. If they had merely stayed inside or in their backyard, they wouldn't be in the predicament they are in now.

The only damage, either to people or property, that occurred in that particular protest, was the gate to the neighborhood was damaged, and it is unclear who caused the damage.

Krumhorn said...

By the way. Lewis is dead wrong. I worked on a series with a successful television writer during the LA riots. He and his wife were ardent and enthusiastic lefties. By the time the smoldering ruins were finally extinguished, the both of them had acquired a number of rifles and handguns and had set up firing positions on the roof of their Beverly Hills home. They had everything ready but the chewing tobacco, and they were dead serious about it. They were ready for the “schvartzes”.

- Krumhorn

Greg The Class Traitor said...

You have to at least admit that she is saying that people with less money are more likely to be criminals. It's one thing to be afraid of the protesters who broke down the gate to the private street in front of their house. It's quite something else to be afraid of people who would become residents of your community if there were inexpensive apartments for rent.


No, she's saying that when people get something they haven't earned, they tend to not treat it well.

If you add 100 people getting gov't subsidized housing to a nice neighborhood, you are going to get a significant increate in the crime in that neighborhood. This one has been tried, repeatedly, and the result was the same very time.

People who cry "that's racist" to people who are simply telling the truth and 1: racist & 2: bad human beings

cacimbo said...

"many people will hear that as a racial dog whistle."

I guess leftists who want to racialize everything will hear the whistle.But do you imagine that middle class blacks and browns who moved out of the city for a suburban lifestyle want low rent apartments being put up in their neighborhoods.

gerry said...

They live in a private, gated, neighborhood, that was specifically zoned to keep the riff raff (anyone non-white or working class) out. It is like a gated suburb in the middle of the city.

The fifty-story building in Manhattan's upper east side where Seinfeld has a place is also like a gated suburb in the middle of the city. It is a nice place to partake of the grit that makes New York life so interesting. And it keeps the riff-raff out.

Leland said...

Shouting "Hey! I'm on your side" does not protect you from the mob. Pointing an AR at the mob protects you from the mob.

As Ted Wheeler also discovered in Portland.

deepelemblues said...

I accept that it was effective, but I would have written the speech in more personal, human terms, and less political terms. This is a family that was at their home preparing a meal outside. They weren't bothering anyone. They were then intruded upon by an angry, bigoted mob, threatening them for no good reason. Because they are white. Because they are wealthy. Because they are the Other. Blind, unthinking hatred, a lack of self-control, is appropriate when dealing with them. Because they are the Other. They are to be cowed and made to submit to the demands of the mob. Because they are the Other. They are to be put through the grinder of Balkanization and re-education to come out the other end as the New Man (and Woman!), or to come out the other end as pulverized dust. Because they are the Other. That is what the left is doing, and talking about Marxism and whatever to me is a little indirect. These people are denying common human dignity. It's what bigots do. You don't have to waste time treating people in a decent manner if they aren't worth it. Is that the America you want to live in, where people can be treated with such contempt and lack of consideration, where it is a virtue to act savagely to punish other people's unforgivable sins of being white, being heterosexual, being wealthy, being Christian. That's the America we largely live in already, and it will become even more so if Trump doesn't win.

Freder Frederson said...

I hope the mobs visit you in your neighborhood, Freder Frederson.

I live in a mixed race and income neighborhood in New Orleans (within a mile we have multi-million dollar homes and section 8 housing). Don't paint me as some elite living in some suburban enclave far away from the problems of the city, because I'm not and I don't.

William said...

Both Phi Betta Kappa, both Cum Laude (she Summa, he Magna).

"And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy toward people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or antitrade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations." Barack Øbama (2008)

Q.E.D.

gerry said...

But it’s not a racial issue to hope that folks who live in your neighborhood have the same stake as you do in maintaining it and in ensuring safety.

People having the same stake means people having the same values. Don't you understand that Progressives hate your values because your values promote independence, individualism, and liberty? Progressives hate liberty since that requires government to lose control of some things, which could become widespread loss of control.

Progressives really fear widespread loss of control. That's too dangerous.

Bilwick said...

If you're a statist and look at other people as potential serfs and sources of stuff to loot, it's easy to dismiss the desires of serfs to defend themselves.

gerry said...

That's a winning electoral message?

It is when they are standing between the suburban moms' homes and families and your political goals and allies, Chuck.

Tom said...

This couple didn’t go looking for trouble. The trouble - the mob - came to them. While I think the risk of the mob coming to my suburban neighborhood is low, it’s now well above zero. So, we’ll he ready and we’ll vote accordingly.

Yancey Ward said...

Just drive by any low-income housing unit anywhere, and then ask yourself this simple question: would you want your children growing up next to it?

Drago said...

LLR-lefty Chuck is quite upset that the suburban mom vote is being affected by the riots his marxist allies are executing all over the nation.

Chuck, who doesn't even bother pretending to be for the 2nd Amendment (because what would be the point of still trying to sell that lie at Althouse, eh?) can't understand the fears of suburban moms to unrestrained violence in their neighborhoods.

This is what makes Chuck your typical far left democrat.

wild chicken said...

"BTW, maybe rural is the answer. There are already poor and average income folks there, "

Already happened. Once nice small towns are now full of tweakers, stoners, ex-cons, child-support dodgers, drunks, and village idiots who never left in the first place.

Nowhere to run.

Birkel said...

Elite?
Who said anything about elite, Freder Frederson?
I hope the mobs you want for McCloskey's come to your neighborhood.

I hope they treat your things like they treated the fate to a neighborhood where they were trespassing.
I hope you get everything you want for others, but for you.

My most fervent wish is that you get precisely what you want.
I am rooting for you.

Kai Akker said...


---"Beware the fury of the patient man."


Straw Dogs.

Joe Smith said...

"The biggest problem of owning a gun at the present time, is trying to find ammo."

Amen, brother...

Drago said...

Basil Duke: "The bullhorn-wielding orc/triumphant U.S. Congressional primary candidate referenced is Cori Bush - a sassy communist who earlier this month defeated the only slightly less-repugnant incumbent, Lacy Clay. This horrid beast will, next year, become my congresscretin (Missouri's 1st Congressional District)."

Communist radical democrats are now the openly preferred candidates of the far left radical billionaire funded Bulwark grifters.

Remember, the Bulwark grifters have already declared that after the election, in the case of a Biden victory, they would continue to work to advance ALL of the socialist/marxist policies of the democrat party.

ALL of them.

Because advocating for the most radical communist marxist democrats and their socialist identity politics and the destruction of the Constitution is the best way to "conserve conservatism".

LOL

Have you noticed that the LLR-lefties have completed ceased pretending they are about "conserving conservatism"?

Just like the democrats, during a weeklong convention, never even mentioned their impeachment efforts.

Not. Even. Once.

And yet it was the most important thing in the world at the time.

So now all the masks are off and we see with absolute clarity just who everyone really is....and that's a very good thing.

Drago said...

Freder: "I live in a mixed race and income neighborhood in New Orleans (within a mile we have multi-million dollar homes and section 8 housing). Don't paint me as some elite living in some suburban enclave far away from the problems of the city, because I'm not and I don't."

No one cares.

We just hope your mobs "visit" you.

Drago said...

deepelemblues: "This is a family that was at their home preparing a meal outside. They weren't bothering anyone. They were then intruded upon by an angry, bigoted mob, threatening them for no good reason."

Shhhhh!

You can't say things like that without triggering LLR-lefties everywhere.

J. Farmer said...

@Freder Frederson:

They live in a private, gated, neighborhood, that was specifically zoned to keep the riff raff (anyone non-white or working class) out. It is like a gated suburb in the middle of the city.

How the hell is something "specifically zoned to keep" out "anyone non-white"? An upper middle-class Black or East Asian or Indian or Hispanic family would've been denied a deed? Be chased out with torches and pitchforks?

Maybe it is because we are not paranoid racists who think blacks want us to bend over and take it up the ass.

Unfortunately for your position, the truth is racist. Young black men are much more likely to engage in violence or other criminal behavior than the young men of other racial groups. Young black men make up less than 5% of the US population but commit around half of all murders. Among all adults in the US, about 8% have a felony conviction on their record. Among black men, it's 33%. Discrepancies in behavioral problems among blacks are evident from pre-school through high school. Black women are victims of domestic violence in larger numbers than any other group of women. It is painfully obvious that black men have issues with managing aggression and impulse-control.

DKWalser said...

...Now back to the electoral concerns of suburban moms. I just gotta ask; are average voting suburban moms supposed to be sympatico with a couple standing in the front yard wielding semi-automatic firearms?...

@Chuck: What is the proper gun toting etiquette when facing a mob that just broke through and iron gate and in prior riots has set fire to buildings? I've taken gun safety classes. This scenario was never discussed. I have to believe it was a case of first impression for the McCloskeys. It would have been for me. I'm willing to forgive them if they didn't hold out their pinky or used the wrong napkin.

I think the average suburban mom appreciates the difference between a couple standing in their front yard with semi-automatic firearms as a few neighbors stroll past on a Saturday evening and a couple fending off a mob. That is, your average suburban mom is smarter and wiser than Chuck.

DJK said...

If conservatives like Matt Lewis understood that those who control the Democratic Party are not the "cosmopolitan liberals" he works with in the media but rather working class people of color and their allies, then he'd understand why Joe Biden is now doubling-up Hillary's 2016 polling lead.

What would be effective with suburban moms is if Republicans had a nominee with basic dignity and decency, rather than a vulgar, rage tweeting birther bigot who told Americans to drink Lysol, who mocked a disabled reporter, who parsed Charlottesville neo-Confederates vs the tiki torch Nazis they marched with (for the record -- no fine people in the group anywhere), who tweeted a White Power video on 6/28/2020, and who "takes no responsibility at all" for his coronavirus lies and incompetence that has killed nearly 200,000 Americans and put 30 million out of work.

Democratic absentee ballot requests in swing states like Pennsylvania are outpacing those by Republicans at exponential disparities, skewing towards younger voters.
It's gonna take more than fearmongering from two rich Republicans lawyers to change that.

rhhardin said...

You have to at least admit that she is saying that people with less money are more likely to be criminals. It's one thing to be afraid of the protesters who broke down the gate to the private street in front of their house. It's quite something else to be afraid of people who would become residents of your community if there were inexpensive apartments for rent.

The experiment has been run a number of times. It would be nice if it weren't true. I mean who wants a world like that.

Teach good character. It would solve all sorts of problems.

Jupiter said...

"I’m probably more sensitive to this shift. As a conservative, this is a demographic of which I am very familiar."

Sure thing, Matt. And as a Senior Columnist, this is a solecism of which you are very familiar as well.

MountainMan said...

Greg The Class Traitor said... "If you add 100 people getting gov't subsidized housing to a nice neighborhood, you are going to get a significant increase in the crime in that neighborhood. This one has been tried, repeatedly, and the result was the same very time."

And I shared my personal experience with this in my own neighborhood in TN in a post here on Section 8 housing just within the last couple of weeks. My once peaceful and crime-free neighborhood now has frequent break-ins and car break-ins and thefts. And it is all due to the drug habits the people brought with them. And they are nearly all white, not black, so it is not a race issue.

Vance said...

So, story on the local news last night. All about the "clash between the right to protest and the right to keep and bear arms."

I live in Utah, and we've had little violence. But we have had some--in particular, our nice safe Provo, Utah had a BLM "peaceful protest" where a guy shot a motorist, and shot at another one, all while the police stood and watched and did nothing.

That... did not go over well. So, in a move guaranteed to terrify Chuck, Howard, Inga and the rest of the "surrender to violence, now bigots!" crowd, a militia group formed. They track the local BLM group and whenever the BLM people gather, this group shows up. Full military style camo, fatigues... most importantly, fully armed. They lean against the wall, don't engage, just hang out. Mostly former military types. Odd--every protest they go to is very, very peaceful.

The BLM group is terrified of them: "They are intimidating us! They stalk us!" And the response from the leader of the militia is "We want to intimidate them. We want peace here."

Facebook banned their group page... at the time, this militia had 20,000 followers on Facebook. Yes, twenty thousand. Now they are organizing up quick and getting larger.

Chuck would pee his pants. How dare someone stand up to BLM and the rioting? Just like the McCloskeys, the ordinary citizens are starting to rise up. I don't think we'll see Kenosha here in Utah... we'll see a lot of dead rioters first.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Thistlerose My point is I don't want to carry a firearm and it is not a good thing for the country that I am considering that I may need to look into it.

I don't want to carry a fire arm either. I do want to have the RIGHT to do so if needed or wanted.

While I don't "carry" on my person in public, we are protected at home, when camping, and in general in the outdoors. I know that I am not alone in this in the area where I live. We live in a rural area and police/sheriff protection is slim to none. So. We know that we are on our own against all sorts of predators (human and animal). Ready and willing to protect.

Probably 90% of people in similar situation and mindset.

traditionalguy said...

The name McCluskey is Ulster Irish . Figures that they stood their ground. As did another McCluskey whose leadership of dive bombers alone decided the winner at Midway thereby also deciding the winner of the war against the Empire of Japan.

Yancey Ward said...

I can see Chuck facing down the mob in his neighborhood:

"I am a NeverTrumper, why are you burning down my house?"

traditionalguy said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Shawn Levasseur said...

"America is such a great country that not only do you have the right to own a gun and use it to defend yourself, but thousands of Americans will offer you free advice on how to use it, at least that’s what we experienced."

A subtle dig at those of us who criticized their poor handling of the guns? (Lack of trigger discipline, not careful where they were pointing the things... It's a wonder they didn't shoot one another.)

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Chuck asks I just gotta ask; are average voting suburban moms supposed to be sympatico with a couple standing in the front yard wielding semi-automatic firearms? That's a winning electoral message?

YES.

When they see that the mob is going to be coming after them and their suburban housea, suburban assets, suburban lifestyles, suburban children and everything that they have worked for all their lives.....AND that there will not going to be any police to protect them because the Democrats want to defund the police and are actively encouraging lawlessness, crime, violence and destruction...........YES YES YES.

Vance said...

Most suburban moms want, more than anything, to keep their children safe.

So when Chuck and Freder and Howards friends come by, burning and rioting and looting and assaulting and threatening people... most moms would love nothing more than someone to stand between them and the violent mobs.

Maybe Chuck thinks that moms prefer victim status and watching rioters rape and murder their children. Maybe the Democrats think that suburban mothers are all down with that kind of thing: "Black lives matter so much more than my children! So I will let the mobs violate and desecrate everything I've every built here!"

But I hope Chuck is wrong and most mothers still want to keep their children safe from Chuck's mobbers.

Bruce Hayden said...

“They live in a private, gated, neighborhood, that was specifically zoned to keep the riff raff (anyone non-white or working class) out. It is like a gated suburb in the middle of the city.”

Race has nothing to do with it. That would be very illegal. What does matter is money. That is what keeps the riff raff out - they can’t afford to live there. In this case, it probably costs a lot to live there. My guess looking at the shots of their house - it probably costs millions.

Vance said...

Most suburban moms want, more than anything, to keep their children safe.

So when Chuck and Freder and Howards friends come by, burning and rioting and looting and assaulting and threatening people... most moms would love nothing more than someone to stand between them and the violent mobs.

Maybe Chuck thinks that moms prefer victim status and watching rioters rape and murder their children. Maybe the Democrats think that suburban mothers are all down with that kind of thing: "Black lives matter so much more than my children! So I will let the mobs violate and desecrate everything I've every built here!"

But I hope Chuck is wrong and most mothers still want to keep their children safe from Chuck's mobbers.

Jupiter said...

"I live in a mixed race and income neighborhood in New Orleans (within a mile we have multi-million dollar homes and section 8 housing). Don't paint me as some elite living in some suburban enclave far away from the problems of the city, because I'm not and I don't."

Freder, we know what you are. That's why we wouldn't want to live near you.

And BTW, that gate was the gate to their property, not their neighborhood. Those stinking vermin were standing in their front yard. How would you feel, if you were sitting down to dinner on your deck, and a bunch of worthless scum, a lot like yourself, actually, broke in the gate and started pouring in, screaming chants of mindless hatred at you? Right at home, I guess.

MacMacConnell said...

It doesn't mater what this couple says in public regardless of what their lawyer says. The Governor of Missouri has on numerous occasions has promised them an immediate pardon if convicted.

These same St. Louis Democrat prosecutors are the same ones who put up billboards around St. Louis promising to prosecute anyone "slandering Obama".

Mary Beth said...

Furthermore, the protest was merely passing in front of the house on their way to the Mayor's house.

You know this how? I didn't see any video of what was happening before they went outside with their guns. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that either they or their neighbors have outside security cameras that captured what went on.

Let's not forget that the protesters were only on that street because the mayor had read off the names and address of people who wanted to defund the police. That information may be publicly available, but when a politician makes a point to read it out loud, it's going to come off as doxxing and cancelling - especially to groups who practice doxxing and cancelling themselves.

iowan2 said...

I can only find a picture from gatewaypundit,via twitter showing armed security guards outside on a balcony. So what is the law? A citizen cannot have weapons outside? But I can hire someone to carry weapons outside on my property? The only reason police, and private security have to power to carry firearms, is because I, and my neighbors delegated my power to them. I did not cede the power to them, I delegated the power and still possess that power.

Do I have the right to own private property?
Do I have the right to protect my private property?
Do I have the right to protect my private property with a fire arm?

In this case, the mob had already destroyed a gate and were trespassing on private property. The nation was already well past 60 straight days of lawless mobs running loose and police were ordered to stand down. Citizens were already being denied law enforcement services. The McCloskeys were told by 911, no police would be dispatched.

Why are the McCloskeys stripped of their rights, but the mob is not?

narciso said...

actually no, but that's for playing and you get a copy of the home game,

Mary Beth said...

What would be effective with suburban moms....

What's effective against people who either intentionally spread lies or who have the reading/listening comprehension of a grape and believe those lies?

Narayanan said...

Thistlerose said...
...My point is I don't want to carry a firearm and it is not a good thing for the country that I am considering that I may need to look into it.
----------===========
isn't that what anti 1A is all about? without the - "considering I may need to look into it"

~ Gordon Pasha said...

2,000,000 new gun owners this year. That is a huge demographic. Fits in nicely with the discussion with the case of Duncan v Becerra recently decided by the Ninth Circuit on utility of large capacity magazines as part of semiautomatic magazines in the defense of hearth and home.

https://dl.airtable.com/.attachments/6d809a9cc6fddb883f29559e63a83234/94d604dc/DuncanvBecerraOpinion.pdf

Greg The Class Traitor said...

Blogger Freder Frederson said...
If the "violent mob" was actually violent or targeting the McCloskeys, I might have some sympathy for them. Furthermore, the protest was merely passing in front of the house on their way to the Mayor's house
...
The only damage, either to people or property, that occurred in that particular protest, was the gate to the neighborhood was damaged, and it is unclear who caused the damage.


Well, there's two possibilities here:
1: The underpants gnomes destroyed that gate
2: The violent thug rioters destroyed that gate

I'm going to bet it was #2

People who destroy private property in order to get into a private area so they can engage in extortion / bullying (this is what you admit above was happening) are pretty much the epitome of a "violent mob".

People who see a violent mob approaching, and think "gosh, if I don't do anything, they'll go harass someone else"? Those are bad people. Cowards, at best.

When armed people show up at an Antifa protest and let the Antifa thugs know that any violence will be responded to, the Antifa thugs become very non-violent. The McCloskeys did the right thing, the good thing, the thing that everyone should do whenever "protesters" show up in their neighborhood.

The fact that you think they're bad people for doing that just shows what scum you are

DKWalser said...

...If the "violent mob" was actually violent or targeting the McCloskeys, I might have some sympathy for them. The protest was indeed loud, but not violent. Furthermore, the protest was merely passing in front of the house on their way to the Mayor's house. If they had merely stayed inside or in their backyard, they wouldn't be in the predicament they are in now. ...

@Freder: You're being terribly unfair to the McCloskeys. The mob had broken through an iron gate. It was trespassing on the McCloskeys' property. Similar protests had gone from "merely passing" to violent in a nanosecond. The McCloskeys were already outside -- preparing their dinner. They were planning to eat on their patio. Given all that, how did they KNOW that the mob would simply pass by without doing damage to their property or harming the McCloskeys? Is their some kind of 'first rock rule' that requires one to wait for one rock through the window before you're entitled to defend your life and property?

Given everything that had happened in the days before and what happened in the minutes before the protesters trespassed on the McCloskeys' property, it was reasonable for them to fear they and their property was in danger. As the mob was 'merely passing by', members of the mob made threats to the to the McCloskeys -- who were, recall, already outside. How were the McCloskeys to KNOW such threats were hyperbole and not to be take seriously?

With 20/20 hindsight, the couple's critics say that they overreacted. There was no need for them to go inside their house, grab their firearms, and return in a display of force. By so doing, they risked escalating the situation. That may be true. The mob might have left the scene with nothing more than a ringing echo of vulgar chants. It's also true that the sight of the couple with their guns dissuaded the mob from harming the couple and their property. We don't have access to alternative universes to see how things would have turned out had they taken another approach.

PM said...

That was their home?
Yeow, good for them.

Greg The Class Traitor said...

Shawn Levasseur said...
"America is such a great country that not only do you have the right to own a gun and use it to defend yourself, but thousands of Americans will offer you free advice on how to use it, at least that’s what we experienced."

A subtle dig at those of us who criticized their poor handling of the guns? (Lack of trigger discipline, not careful where they were pointing the things... It's a wonder they didn't shoot one another.)


They couldn't shoot one another. His gun wasn't loaded. Her pistol was a prop that wasn't loaded, and couldn't have fired if it was loaded.

Shoudl they have had better control? yes. Are they, properly, tired of the people who go on and on about it?

yes

Narayanan said...

people / commenters are definitely in a rut of talking past one another.

new reality/frame of reference/narrative terms

- think of zoning as social distancing and race as wearing a mask

- do you want to make the situation permanent or find a way to relax to normal humanity?

this homework is due on the first Tuesday after the first Monday in November.

it is open book (= based on reality) and feel free to pass on to neighbors and friends.

Greg The Class Traitor said...

Thistlerose said...
I have a brother who is a police officer who lives 5 mins from me. We discuss crime in the city. If there is any chance of violence such as the riot coming to my neighborhood I would know in plenty of time to get to his house and away from it. I do not live in an area where violent crime is a major worry. My point is I don't want to carry a firearm and it is not a good thing for the country that I am considering that I may need to look into it.

1: It's NOT a good thing for the country that people need to be armed, because the politicians will not let the police do their job, even if the police were willing to do it

2: It's also not a good thing for the country that so many people want to be moral freeloaders, relying on the rest of us to protect them.

Do your civic duty. Get a gun. learn how to use it. Keep it, and ammo, in your home, in a place such that you can get to it and use it in under 30 seconds

Be a citizen, not a subject

MacMacConnell said...

DJK
There are so many untruths to unpack in your rant.

FYI, Richard Spencer the organizer of the Neo-Nazi portion of the Charlottesville rally just endorsed Biden. No surprise Nazis have always been Socialist.

FYI, Trump has info you don't. Like Israel's experiments using Idodine isotope drips to fight Covid. ( Being a member of the "Party of Science" you would know the original theripy for syphilis was a strychnine drip. ) Or maybe Russia's experiments with blood exposed to light waves to fight Covid.

The violence in the streets has nothing to do with Black lives, it's about Marxism. The DNC never mentioned it during their convention, Democrats won't condemn it. No surprise, it took them nearly 100 years to condemn the Klan, a historic Democrat institution. BLM and Antifa are just left wing versions of the Klan. It's how Democrats terrorize and intimidate their opposition. Nothing new.



Narayanan said...

isn't that what anti 1A is all about? without the - "considering I may need to look into it"

that should be 2A

Drago said...

DJK: "What would be effective with suburban moms is if Republicans had a nominee with basic dignity and decency, rather than a vulgar, rage tweeting birther bigot who told Americans to drink Lysol, who mocked a disabled reporter, who parsed Charlottesville neo-Confederates vs the tiki torch Nazis they marched with (for the record -- no fine people in the group anywhere), who tweeted a White Power video on 6/28/2020, and who "takes no responsibility at all" for his coronavirus lies and incompetence that has killed nearly 200,000 Americans and put 30 million out of work."

I think DJK is the clear frontrunner for Person Who Can Post The Most Debunked Lefty Lies In A Single Paragraph award.

Not that Freder or LLR-lefty Chuck cant come from behind if they put their nose to the grindstone, but the hill looks steep.

Let's all see what happens next!

BTW, is it just me, or does it seem as though we are starting to get a number of very rare posters at Althouse blog in recent months with handles from 2012 and 2016 with very few bio views who are suddenly popping up with the kinds of comments you'd see on yahoo or something with no apparent understanding that all of their lies have been completely debunked already and even Althouse lefties like Chuck and Freder and Howard and ARM and Inga know to be careful in how they continue to push those lefty lies?

I think we are seeing, live and in color, the democrat astroturfing efforts in active play at Althouse these days funded by the same lefties as those that purchased the souls of the Bulwark grifters.

Greg The Class Traitor said...

MountainMan said...
And I shared my personal experience with this in my own neighborhood in TN in a post here on Section 8 housing just within the last couple of weeks. My once peaceful and crime-free neighborhood now has frequent break-ins and car break-ins and thefts. And it is all due to the drug habits the people brought with them. And they are nearly all white, not black, so it is not a race issue.

Note: it's also not a "they're all bad" issue
There are plenty of good people who get Section 8 vouchers. The problem is that there are also plenty of bad people who get Section 8 vouchers.

I you had 1 Section 8 voucher family added to a neighborhood, there probably wouldn't be a problem. And if there was a problem, you could kick them out once they were caught making the problem.

But if you add 100+ in an apartment building full of Section 8 voucher recipients, you're going to get a problem.

And that's what Obama tried to do, and what Biden will do if elected President

MacMacConnell said...

Defunding the police will be a wake up call to BLM and Antifa. Civil policing is a two sided coin, one side protects the citizens from criminals, the other side protects the criminals from vigilantist. Want a revolution? For the Left it's romantic, well till you are lynched on a light post.

Drago said...

DKWalser: "@Freder: You're being terribly unfair to the McCloskeys."

Freder is in Full Bundy Case Liar Mode (Freder once attempted to explain the outcome of the Bundy trial and lied about every single finding the court made after the Bundy's won).

The mob broke thru the private gate, they were on the McCloskey's property, at least 1 member of the mob brandished a gun at the McCloskey's, there were multiple threats of phyiscal violence against the McCloskey's captured on video/audio, there were threats that they (the mob) would burn the house down, and on and on.

It is really unfortunate that Freder has decided to employ his standard operating procedure of lying openly about every single salient fact in a case that has garnered popular attention and for which there is ample video and audio evidence refuting every single Freder claim.

When it gets this bad for Freder it usually makes me feel even worse for LLR-lefty Chuck who is happy to lie this blatantly every single day on every single issue.....and all to advance his beloved democrats narratives.

Which no one who is remotely rational believes anyway.

Alas.

NorthOfTheOneOhOne said...

Dust Bunny Queen said...

The Leftists/Antifa etc think that they have cowed or frightened the people into submission. They don't understand that people are more patient and less inclined to resort to immediate violence. Until we are really pushed to action it will seem to the left that they are winning. However....push to far and too hard.... watch out.

It has little to do with patience. It's more to do with trust (that your neighbors would back you up) and with who'd get the shitty end of the stick when the shooting stops (most likely the homeowner as he's easier to track down).

However it is correct to say that they will push too hard and too far. No one has gone on the offensive against the rioters in a major way and I doubt any of them have an expectation that anyone will. I suspect come November 4th you will see that happen, regardless of who gets elected.

Bruce Hayden said...

“We are told time and again that the root cause of crime is poverty. Is it so strange to conclude that poorer residents in an area will have a higher incidence of criminal behavior. Which is it? Is poverty the cause of crime or are poor people only as likely to engage in crime as more well to do people. When people decry the disproportion in some racial group's contact with the police, and the disproportionate instances of police/individual violent contact, I simply remind them that some racial groups suffer disproportionately from poverty and, as those same people insist, poverty causes criminal behavior. Requiring that poorer people be housed in more affluent neighborhoods does not change the economic status of the poor residents. They continue to be poor and poverty causes crime. Thus, the rate of criminality of the area will go up. Unless, of course, the assertion that poverty is the cause of crime is wrong.”

The big problem is not poverty, per se, but rather fatherless child rearing, which the Dems started subsidizing with LBJ’s War on Poverty. We are now maybe three generations into the problem. The girls get pregnant, in order to get their own check, drop out of school, and spend much of the rest of their lives on welfare raising kids without their fathers living in the household in wedded bliss. The boys from these households, without their fathers training them how to be responsible men, very often get involved in gangs and drugs, resulting in incarceration and/or death, while impregnating as many girls (and some) pregnant as they can, between bouts of incarceration. And the next generation follows in their parents’ footsteps. This happens to whites, just as it happens to blacks, but not, yet, at the same rate. But if a couple can manage to get and stay married, while raising their kids, they have a decent chance at their kids moving up economically.

Thus, it isn’t poverty that causes crime, per se, but rather both have the same cause - fatherless child rearing. For the most part, neither the boys, nor the girls, growing up in those environments graduate from High school. Few go to college. For the males, many of the more lucrative careers are also foreclosed to them due to their criminal records.

Freder Frederson said...

Given everything that had happened in the days before and what happened in the minutes before the protesters trespassed on the McCloskeys' property.

They weren't trespassing on the McCloskey's property. They were on the street and sidewalk. I guess in the abstract since it was a private street, the McCloskey's might have some property right in the street itself, but that is a bit of a stretch.

bagoh20 said...

"You have to at least admit that she is saying that people with less money are more likely to be criminals. It's one thing to be afraid of the protesters who broke down the gate to the private street in front of their house. It's quite something else to be afraid of people who would become residents of your community if there were inexpensive apartments for rent."

Just stop that bullshit, will you? People have been saying that crap for decades as if low income housing is not the most common seed of the most dysfunctional and dangerous neighborhoods in America, and it happens every time they do it. It has nothing to do with poverty or race, because there are law abiding people of all incomes and races.

The problem happens because irresponsible people of poor character are attracted to cheap housing and the shit they can get away with there. They steal stuff, get wasted in the public areas, and assault and rape at a very high rate. They don't do it because they are poor or Black. They are in that environment because they they do it. They make the world they live in, and unfortunately they victimize innocents who happen to be forced by poverty to live near them. You know this so well that you would never live in such an area, and if it was coming to your neighborhood, you would run so fast it would look like a Road Runner cartoon.

Narayanan said...

Owen said...
My only question for the McCloskeys is, why not stay in the house and let Claymores do the work?
-----------------==============
Q : if they had planted Hillary 2016 signs - what difference would it make (instead of Claymores)

Freder Frederson said...

And BTW, that gate was the gate to their property, not their neighborhood.

This is simply not true. You are mistaken or lying.

Michael K said...

I think we are seeing, live and in color, the democrat astroturfing efforts in active play at Althouse these days funded by the same lefties as those that purchased the souls of the Bulwark grifters.

Yup. I am certainly seeing them. Maybe Althouse is testing new trolls.

BUMBLE BEE said...

Thistlerose... Gun ownership has always been a good idea for homeowners. If your source gets shot or bricked that is where you will remain. On a personal note, I took up handloading in `78. That hobby paid for itself in short order even though JHPs cost $8.99/box @ KMart. Ammo will never get any cheaper or plentiful. Follow the rules, put on some relaxing music and concentrate. I re-discovered classical music in the process. J.S. Bach Magnificat on the radio at Christmas time and I was hooked.

Michael K said...

The fact that you think they're bad people for doing that just shows what scum you are

Freder never ceases to have opinions about things he knows nothing about.

Nothing new. It's why he is so easy to mock.

BUMBLE BEE said...

Burglar to homeowner... aren't you gonna call the police? Homeowner... why?, nobody knows you're here.

Todd said...

richlb said...

Someone (ain't holding my breath) needs to ask Joe Biden what he would say to the McCloskeys and those who feel the same. I'd really love to know his answer.

8/25/20, 9:29 AM


Likely what he has already said.

Vice President Joe Biden told Field & Stream magazine in an interview published Monday, "[if] you want to keep someone away from your house, just fire the shotgun through the door."

https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2013/02/28/biden-advises-shooting-shotgun-through-door

And not the only time he has said something this stupid about how to defend yourself...

MountainJohn said...

Unfortunately for your position, the truth is racist. Young black men are much more likely to engage in violence or other criminal behavior than the young men of other racial groups. Young black men make up less than 5% of the US population but commit around half of all murders. Among all adults in the US, about 8% have a felony conviction on their record. Among black men, it's 33%. Discrepancies in behavioral problems among blacks are evident from pre-school through high school. Black women are victims of domestic violence in larger numbers than any other group of women. It is painfully obvious that black men have issues with managing aggression and impulse-control.

Powerful truth that can't be restated too often.

Important, though, to remind ourselves that this is a factor of culture, not race. And I am not suggesting that was the poster's intent.

There is a powerfully malevolent culture running though lower income, primarily urban environments. It continues to destroy families and people wherever it is in effect.

Those of us who believe in God and Satan know who's behind it.

Earnest Prole said...

I think we can all agree that while his trigger discipline could use some work, his pink-polo-shirt game is strong.

Bruce Hayden said...

“But I hope Chuck is wrong and most mothers still want to keep their children safe from Chuck's mobbers.”

I very much think so. Females of many species, ours included, tend to be far more protective of their broods than the fathers do. For us, it is the difference between a couple minutes of work and a quarter tablespoon of sperm, versus nine months of carrying the baby, followed by a painful delivery. In brown bears, males killing cubs is one of the biggest cause for them failing to grow to adulthood. So, to no one’s surprise females will attack males twice their size to keep them away from their cubs. My partner tells of several times when she pulled a gun to protect her kids, including scaring off Michael Jackson’s entourage one time (he might have been trying to be white, but they weren’t - imagine 3-4 large black males showing up at your front door demanding money). And she was more than willing to use the gun, if she had to.

Todd said...

Thistlerose said...

My point is I don't want to carry a firearm and it is not a good thing for the country that I am considering that I may need to look into it.

8/25/20, 9:54 AM


Smart decision. I suppose you also don't carry any health insurance until you feel like you might get sick? You likely also don't carry car insurance until you expect to get into an accident? I sure wish I also had precognition!

Another old lawyer said...

Adding to the Section 8 housing experiences.

My wife tells the story from the 1970s (I think) when a decision was being made on where in our metro area Section 8 housing would be introduced. When their part of the metro area was the 'winner,' her mother basically said 'there goes the neighborhood.'

My grandmother lived in a few miles away, on a street that was neat as a pin, all of the houses built in the 1950s kept up.

The smart or lucky ones got out by the late 80s. My wife and her mother did. My grandmother did not, and the only buyer she found in the early 90s was a church buying up housing at rock bottom prices for its parishioners.

40+ years later, the HS my wife attended went from being award winning to being decertified by the state, and my wife won't visit her parents' graves located about 1/4 mile where she grew up, except early in the morning on a cold winter day. Pre-pandemic, I'd say we read at least one story a month about a murder, including some drive-by shootings, on the streets she lived on, played, rode bikes, etc.

If you want a heated discussion with my wife, accuse people who are moving away from areas with Section 8 housing of 'white flight.' She's called into local radio talk shows to give the benefit of her family's lived experience, when hosts hint at race being the motivation.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

MacMacConnell Civil policing is a two sided coin, one side protects the citizens from criminals, the other side protects the criminals from vigilantist.

This is the truth. When there is no "official" policing and there is no longer any rules or system of justice, the people WILL take it upon themselves to fill that vacuum. Not always to a good result because a mob, will be a mob.

Mob rule isn't good no matter what side or who is doing it.

Be careful of what you wish for....no police....because you won't like what happens afterwards.

Gk1 said...

I grew up in St.Louis and have had a few architectural tours of the area the McCloskey's live in in the Central West end. They are magnificent mansions from the 1850's to the 1940's built for the rich industrialists that made up the backbone of St.Louis's history as a once great city.

Now it's a small, well healed neighborhood of 3rd generation millionaires who have discovered, to their sorrow, that their Batphone directly to the City Mayor or Police department no longer works.

For the last 20 years they have been relying on private security to "keep the riff raff out" but now see it is no longer sufficient for their safety and welfare. I wonder if they decide to flee or chip in and hire Blackwater to supplement their Bronze Plan police department they spend their property tax on funding?

stlcdr said...

Thistlerose said...
... My point is I don't want to carry a firearm and it is not a good thing for the country that I am considering that I may need to look into it.

8/25/20, 9:54 AM


Some would say, in a civilized country, you wouldn't need to carry a gun. I would say, in a civilized country, why would you fear anyone carrying a gun?

Inga said...

The rabbi who is neighbor to Mark and Patricia McCloskey speaks out: ‘They are bullies’.

The McCloskeys are Talve’s neighbors. Their property’s northern wall abuts the property of St. Louis’ Jewish Central Reform Congregation, where Talve is the rabbi.

In 2013, the synagogue placed beehives along the wall to produce honey for Rosh Hashanah, the Jewish New Year. One morning they found the hives destroyed and all the bees dead. Mark McCloskey had taken an ax or sledgehammer to them.

His issue? The fence between them sat six inches inside the McCloskey’s property line. The hives were his to wreck.

“He could have picked up the phone and said, ‘Hey, those beehives are on my property,’ and we would have happily moved them,” said Talve.

She said the McCloskeys didn’t contact the temple at all before lashing out.

Instead, McCloskey left a note threatening to sue the synagogue for damages if the shattered hives were not removed at once.

“Civility,” Talve said. “I’m willing to speak out now because there’s such a lack of civility that’s happening, and I don’t feel like I can be a part of that, and silence is complicity.”

Talve paused.

“They are bullies,” she said. “The fact that they’re speaking at the convention is a win for bullies.””

Qwinn said...

McCloskey must be one HELL of a shot if he can not just destroy hives but *kill every last individual bee* with an axe or sledgehammer. Missed his calling.

Qwinn said...

I also find it amusing that "civility" requires "picking up a phone and saying "hey, those beehives are on my property, please move them", but does not apparently require the rabbi "picking up a phone and saying 'hey, we intend to place a whole bunch of beehives near (oops - ON) your property, is that a problem or are you okay with only a small chance of being stung to death when you unknowingly (oops again!) walk too close to them"?

pacwest said...

Antifa is the new KKK. And just like before they are the Dems shock troops. Hate Trump all you like, but if you are supportive of the Democrats you are supporting the modern day KKK. You simply are, no matter how much you try to rationalize it away. Despicable, or to put it other terms, deplorable.

I got a kick out of the recent video of Antifa members screaming at diners to raise their fist in solidarity with BLM or else. Reminiscent of something that happened almost a hundred years ago. And Trump is a Nazi.

Joe Smith said...

@Inga

Cool story about the bees. Maybe he was allergic. Who knows?

Any arrest record? I couldn't find one.

Is he an asshole? He might be, but so are you. I wouldn't be casting any stones.

Gk1 said...

"The bullhorn-wielding orc/triumphant U.S. Congressional primary candidate referenced is Cori Bush - a sassy communist who earlier this month defeated the only slightly less-repugnant incumbent, Lacy Clay"

Is it my imagination or do you have to be morbidly obese to be a BLM candidate these days? Good lord she must be Five foot 2", weigh 280 lbs.

I can Imagine her new campaign slogan "I will tear into systemic white racism like I can a triple deluxe size deep dish pizza with chicken wings and an entire 1 litre Pepsi!" or "Free diabetus shoes for all!!!"

n.n said...

She said "forced re-zoining"...

"many people will hear that as a racial dog whistle."


Diversitists.

Bill, Republic of Texas said...

Missouri Gov. Mike Parson says he is prepared to exercise his pardon powers if prosecutors bring criminal charges in the case of a St. Louis couple who brandished firearms at a group of protesters outside their home.

Parson, a Republican, told a St. Louis radio station Friday that he thinks a pardon is “exactly what would happen” if Mark and Patricia McCloskey are hit with charges in the June 28 incident captured on video and seen by millions.


So what happened?

NorthOfTheOneOhOne said...

Bruce Hayden said...

My partner tells of several times when she pulled a gun to protect her kids, including scaring off Michael Jackson’s entourage one time (he might have been trying to be white, but they weren’t - imagine 3-4 large black males showing up at your front door demanding money).

You have GOT to fill in the backstory on that, Bruce!

NorthOfTheOneOhOne said...

BUMBLE BEE said...

On a personal note, I took up handloading in `78. That hobby paid for itself in short order even though JHPs cost $8.99/box @ KMart. Ammo will never get any cheaper or plentiful. Follow the rules, put on some relaxing music and concentrate.

Unfortunately, components are getting about as scarce as ammo. At least in my neck of the woods.

DKWalser said...

@Inga: What does the rabbi's story have to do with the issue at hand -- whether or not the couple was justified in using weapons to fend off the mob? They are both lawyers. Most of use wouldn't be surprised to learn that they are horrible, litigious, neighbors. Even jerks have a right to self-defense!

Greg The Class Traitor said...

Blogger Freder Frederson said...
They weren't trespassing on the McCloskey's property. They were on the street and sidewalk. I guess in the abstract since it was a private street, the McCloskey's might have some property right in the street itself, but that is a bit of a stretch.

I love the way you post things that immediately disprove your own thesis

Private road == private property == property of the people who live in that area

If something happens too / on that private road, the McCloskeys will be personally legally responsible for part of the "clean up costs".
IIRC, the thugs also walked on the McCloskey's lot. But, even if they didn't, they were most definitely on private property partially owned by the McCloskey's.

They had every moral and legal right to protect it

Birkel said...

DJK,
Please videotape your reaction to Trump's electionvictory ad post it online.
Thanks in advance.

Basil Duke said...

Normal people need to think through the various "leftwing orc mob in front of your house" scenarios NOW - before the orcs actually materialize. What will YOU do if one fine fall evening several hundred braying Maoist thugs show up with bullhorns, search lights and apparently earnest threats that they're going to burn down your house and rape your wife after she scuttles out of the place once the fire spreads?


Do you cower inside and hope the scum are merely bluffing? Do you stalk outside with a Remington 870 and rack in a shell in an attempt to disperse them? What'll you do after eight or nine of the demons shine green lasers in your eyes and a couple of them throw bricks at your head? At this point, you're either blinded, knocked unconscious or dead on your front lawn. Or, rather than present your corpus for their abuse, do you wait for the Molotov cocktails to fly and then open fire from inside your now-burning place of residence?


Or do you go hyper-offensive and open fire before they launch their assault? Can you rely on at least some of your neighbors to help thin the feral herd? Or will some of your shots inadvertently kill or maim some of your neighbors - a distinct possibility given the layout of your neighborhood? Remember: dozens of human swine will be video-taping every single second of the mayhem. And 'your' circuit attorney is a Soros-owned and operated radical left-winger named Kim Gardner or Wesley Bell (St. Louis City and St. Louis County, Missouri, respectively), and the local press is, naturally, quite "progressive."


What would YOU do?

Greg The Class Traitor said...

I'm with Qwinn. A "good neighbor" has a talk with his near neighbors before putting up beehives.

Anaphylactic shock kills.

He tossed the first stone, then was very upset that a stone got tossed at him.

He's the jerk, here, not the McCloskeys

Dust Bunny Queen said...

North of the 101 Unfortunately, components[for reloading ammo] are getting about as scarce as ammo. At least in my neck of the woods.

I know! Us 'survival types' as Inga likes to call it are really experiencing shortages 😄

Plus other vital things are now out of stock...I can't find any small mouth canning lids in our area. This is canning season and the stores, including the hardware stores usually have a lot of supplies are totally out. No lids. No jars. (Not that I need jars or screw bands I have dozens and dozens of those). But lids!! Don't make me use wax for sealant. I can do it. But don't want to.

Now what am I going to do with the 50 pounds of Santa Rosa Plums that I need to can and make jam??. The freezers are full already and there are still 3 cobblers left from last year.

I can dehydrate the Italian plums but the Santa Rosa...no way. Can or Jam. Next pears and apples.

This is worse than the historical (or is that hysterical) Great TP Shortage of 2020.

I'm not joking. Maybe Amazon has lids

lol

Chuck said...

Greg The Class Traitor said...
...
...
IIRC, the thugs also walked on the McCloskey's lot. But, even if they didn't, they were most definitely on private property partially owned by the McCloskey's.

They had every moral and legal right to protect it...


So then why not load those unloaded weapons, and open fire?

hstad said...

Matt Lewis gives us another bullshit statement: "...if you’re a liberal Democrat who lives in a cosmopolitan area, you're probably won’t appreciate this..." Pew Research says the difference between Rural and Urban gun owners is: Rural owners cite hunting as the number one reason for gun ownership, while Urban owners cite Security as number one. Today's violence is largely being done in Urban areas - bet those people don't worry about hunting unless they do it for revenge of a loved one being shot. This is a problem with sticking to narratives, the facts or truth don't support your thesis. On the other hand no one in the MSM will question his bull.

Birkel said...

That story affects nothing, Royal ass Inga.

Could you explain why you think that story matters?

LilyBart said...

A woman yelling at them in their home with a bullhorn was elected to congress?

We teach our kids about the crimes of the Nazis, but not about the Russian Revolution and the Holodomor, not about China's cultural revolution, or the killing fields of Cambodia. They don't have a clue what's coming.

JaimeRoberto said...

“They are bullies”

That wouldn't shock me. They are trial lawyers after all. But they still have a right to defend themselves and their property.

Meade said...

"So then why not load those unloaded weapons, and open fire?"

Is that a sincere question that you don't know the answer to, to which you would like a sincere answer, or are you just being a prick?

Birkel said...

Let's ask Bernie Goetz about reasonableness when living in a Democratic-controlled shithole city.

Fopdoodles are stupid.

Eric said...

Keep telling me about how suburban women will vote for Biden.

Basil Duke said...

LilyBart, yep! Cori Bush, the jye-normous hipped commie with the bullhorn whose photo was displayed during the McCloskeys' presentation, defeated U.S. Congressman Lacy Clay in the primary election earlier this month. Because we're talking about Missouri's 1st Congressional District, that means Cori Bush will become a U.S. Congresscretin in January. I'm not sure if the GOP is even bothering to run anyone against her.

Greg The Class Traitor said...

Chuck said...
So then why not load those unloaded weapons, and open fire?

1: Because they were Thistlerose types, and didn't own any ammo
2: Because legally you need a legitimate threat of GBI before you can shoot people

Both, in this case, are true

Bruce Hayden said...

“ You have GOT to fill in the backstory on that, Bruce!”

Probably said too much already...

It was in Las Vegas. She was recently widowed with a couple of small kids. Jackson’s entourage (4-5 large black males) showed up at the front door of her home, demanding that someone she knew well would be buried in the desert if she didn’t come up with the money that that person supposedly owed them. She never did get a straight answer later why they thought that the money was owed. In any case, she did have the money, due to having been recently widowed. She wrote them a check, passed it through the grate in the security screen (gun in the other hand), and they were off. She then called her father, who called the police, but they refused to get involved partially due to Jackson’s fame (the casino/hotels, like the one that Jackson was headlining for, pay their salaries), and partially because her father called them Ni****s. They then called the bank, trying to stop the check, but the guys had already cashed the check, and were on their way out of town. Finally got the money back after her father, with his best friend (who was headed for the NV Supreme Ct), read the riot act to the bank president. He realized that the public knowing that his bank was siding with black thugs, just because they hung out with Michael Jackson, and were probably paid by him, would not be good for business.

Michael K said...

Talve paused.

“They are bullies,” she said. “The fact that they’re speaking at the convention is a win for bullies.””


Hilarious. The she rabbi is teaching all how innocent beehives are. Did they ask by any chance?

Inga, you are amazing. To post something like this and not see the ridiculous story.

Special kind of dumb.

Drago said...

LLR-lefty and Whitmer FanBoy Chuck: "So then why not load those unloaded weapons, and open fire?"

The McCloskey's have already publicly stated that the LLR-lefty Chuck approved marxist mob was already on his property and the weapons were what stopped them.

Had LLR-lefty Chuck's Magnificent Marxist Mob continued to advance, Mr McCloskey, who had already seen what Chuckies marxist amigos had done elsewhere in St Louis, stated he would have protected his family and property.

Chuck doesn't like the idea of that. At all.

We know LLR-lefty Chuck is a big time mob fanboy because obama loves the mobs and Chuck worships his "magnificent" obama and the transitive property of politics governs.

Drago said...

Field Marshall Freder: "They weren't trespassing on the McCloskey's property. They were on the street and sidewalk. I guess in the abstract since it was a private street, the McCloskey's might have some property right in the street itself, but that is a bit of a stretch."

See?

Full Bundy Case Liar Mode for Freder.

Looks like Freder is not taking the biggest liar challenge from Chuck and this DJK cat seriously.

Drago said...

We are just moments away from Inga claiming the McCloskey's are white supremacist boogaloo-ers and russian spies.

Jamie said...

Now back to the electoral concerns of suburban moms. I just gotta ask; are average voting suburban moms supposed to be sympatico with a couple standing in the front yard wielding semi-automatic firearms? That's a winning electoral message?

Works for me.

Side note: Ooooh, Lordy, semiautomatic firearms! You mean I don't have to cock them between shots like an old-timey cowboy slapping away at the hammer of his revolver?

I know a good part of this is that I live in Texas, but in my particular rather affluent (though not gated) suburb, on my particular street even, I am only one of a number of suburban moms who are licensed to carry. I'm a little short of ammunition for my handguns right now, and my practice is suffering for it because it's so hard to find ammo right now, but I have enough.

Pookie Number 2 said...

Is that a sincere question that you don't know the answer to, to which you would like a sincere answer, or are you just being a prick?

In the prick’s defense, his “this-is-working-so-let’s-fuck-it-up” is absolutely consistent with his support for Biden.

doctrev said...

If you want to see how Charles "Chuckservative" Randall would do under pressure, why not ask him yourself? He wouldn't be hard to find in Lawton, MI. I wonder how he'd deal with people coming to his property uninvited, like he constantly does on this blog?

RobinGoodfellow said...

“ Blogger Big Mike said...
From a tactical perspective there’s a great deal to criticize in what the McCloskeys did. I would not have come out of the house.“

IIRC, they were already sitting on their patio when the “peaceful protesters”. Tore down the gate and came onto lawn.

Bruce Hayden said...

“I'm a little short of ammunition for my handguns right now, and my practice is suffering for it because it's so hard to find ammo right now, but I have enough.”

Bought a .22LR Glock 44. Initially, I thought that a .22 caliber Glock was silly. But it’s the same size as a G 19. Last week I got 3 extra mags last week. Today, I was at the range. 100 rounds for under $10. And I picked up 1,500 rounds a month ago in Coeur d’Alene for roughly $100. What’s not to like?

Martin said...

My only problem with what they said was that the spoke to people who "live in quiet neighborhoods;" the right to a gun for protection is even MORE urgent for people who do not live in quiet neighborhoods. Consider at all the businesses in minority areas that the mobs have torched, many black-owned. For that matter, consider the plight of ordinary people who just want to raise their families, but for one reason or another (often lack of funds, i assume) live in the middle of what is almost a firing range, long before George Floyd was killed, and will continue to do so long after he is but a footnote.

I think Trump and the GOP missed an opportunity to reach out to those kinds of people and show that on this issue, at least, the GOP is on their side.

Bruce Hayden said...

“ Bought a .22LR Glock 44. Initially, I thought that a .22 caliber Glock was silly. But it’s the same size as a G 19. Last week I got 3 extra mags last week. Today, I was at the range. 100 rounds for under $10. And I picked up 1,500 rounds a month ago in Coeur d’Alene for roughly $100. What’s not to like?”

I bought a Glock 17 maybe 8 years ago. It is a good gun. It runs and runs and runs. The only time I really had problems with it was when I accidentally ran a couple magazines of .380 through it. I have a .380 pocket pistol, had almost identical boxes of .380 and 9mm open at the same time, and was using a magazine loader that loads an entire row of 10 at once. A couple times, I stripped off a row of .380, instead of 9mm, and loaded the rounds into the 9 mm magazines. About every third round wouldn’t cycle, which is pretty good. Other than that, I have shot the G17 a lot with little maintenance and no problems.

The G17 is really too big for a carry gun (but is great for a truck gun). So, when I was looking for a carry gun, esp to carry concealed, I bought a Springfield XD Mod 2, that has a grip safety. I worried about carrying a gun every day, with a round in the chamber, and no safety. But five years on, and I still am ultra careful holstering guns with a round in the chamber. And am comfortable doing so. Last winter, I found myself alternating carrying the XD Mod 2 and the G17, with the only problems with carrying the Glock being its size and weight.

Meanwhile, half the year, we live in bear country. For a bear gun, I went with 10 mm. I had shot a friend’s light framed .44 magnum, and it kicked pretty good. I didn’t think I could get a 2nd and subsequent shots on target with a gun like that. That meant a semiautomatic. The two calibers with readily available hard cast bear loads are 10 mm and .45 ACP. 10 mm is considered by most to be superior, since it has a narrower profile, and thus penetrates better. I went with a G20, because it can also safely shoot .40 S&W, which has, until this summer, been much more readily available and cheaper. Which means that I have typically practiced with .40, but carried 10 mm. But then, I picked up a .45 G21 from a friend who owed me money. When I practice, I tend to alternate magazines from the G17 and G20. It works fairly well. Surprisingly, I seem to shoot the G20 a little better.

I had been thinking of moving to a 9 mm G19 for a winter carry gun. But supposedly they were in short supply this summer. Found some decent prices on the Internet, so was in a local gun store looking at a .300 AAC Blackout AR pistol, and asked about FFL transfers. He had 3 G19s, and offered a discount on one, if I bought the .300. But with the G19, the .22 G44 started making sense. Same size, same holsters, etc. we have an indoor range less than a mile from the house in PHX, so expect to spend the winter practicing alternating magazines between the G19 and G44, as I do between the G17 and G20 in the summer.

Besides the cost of ammunition, another advantage of .22 LR is that it has minimal recoil. The problem with recoil is that you instinctively learn to anticipate it, and that pulls your shots off target. Overcoming that the anticipation, that flinch, is not always easy, and the more powerful the gun, the worse the problem. That was part of why I alternate magazines between the G17 and G20. It seems to work. I expect the same dynamic between the G19 and G44. Today, having forgotten the heavier guns, I just shot the G44, and was very happy with the results.

One more thing about Glocks. There is a superb after-market Glock parts supplier, Lone Wolf Distributing, located about 20 miles west of Sandpoint, which isn’t that far from here. They sell literally every part you would need to build or modify a Glock. Bought a new barrel for the G20 this summer that handles solid cast better than stock Glock polygonal barrels do. This is esp nice, as we are considering starting to complete 80% G19 receivers, which can be finished off with Lone Wolf parts.

Bruce Hayden said...

“ I think Trump and the GOP missed an opportunity to reach out to those kinds of people and show that on this issue, at least, the GOP is on their side.”

The problem is that gun control is a hot button issue on both sides. The danger is alienating swing soccer moms who don’t, et, feel threatened by Dem sanctioned violence.

Here in MT, Republican Sen Daines is attacking his Dem opponent, Gov Bullock on the subject. He has an A rationing with the NRA, while Bullock has an F, because his might give gun grabber Scheamer his Senate majority, and the Senate Dems have promised gun grabbing legislation, such as the Dem House did under Palsi. Add in a Biden/Harris Presidency, and they have promised worse gun grabbing than we experienced under Clinton. Not only are they promising to reenact Clinton’s AWB to grab up all of the Modern Sporting Rifles (and carbines) in the country, but they have also vowed to mandate (probably impossible) “smart” guns, and repeal the law that protects gun companies from product liability lawsuits when their products work properly. (Currently, you can sue them only if they are truly defective - for example, if dropped on the ground, and go off, killing or injuring someone, but not if someone is shot intentionally). The obvious goal of repealing that law is to bankrupt the gun companies through aggressive product liability litigation (the tort bar being strong Dem supporters). Throw in “coding the gun show loophole”, which translates to prohibiting private gun sales, and if the law is written as badly as was done in WA, that might even mean having to go through a FFL to hand your buddy your gun for him to check out.

Part of why gun sales have skyrocketed, and ammunition has become scarce and expensive is fear of Dem sanctioned violence by their AntiFA and BLM paramilitary groups, but also through real fear about what the Dems have promised to do, if they regain control over the WH and both houses of Congress. The Dems on the one hand have promised to disarm the country, but on the other hand are refusing to condemn the violence, by their paramilitary affiliates, currently rocking cities across the country, while advocating defunding the police, eliminating bail requirements, as well as the number of criminals in prison. If you aren’t scared, you aren’t paying attention.

SensibleCitizen said...

I love the McCloskeys. They have courage. What they did, however, was misguided. To defend your home safely with firearms, you need a tactical plan. Standing on the front porch with guns you haven't been trained to use is not a plan. It's a tragedy waiting to happen.

I can't imagine that they would kill someone for doing damage to the outside of their home, no matter how angry they were, yet that could have been the tragic outcome. So defend your home from inside, in a defensive position, and do not shoot anyone unless they breach your door and enter the house.

Birkel said...

Sensible Citizen's plan leaves no option for retreat.
And once the Molotov cocktails are burning the house down around you, you are left to emerge, perhaps under enemy fire.

No thank you.

Known Unknown said...

"They live in a private, gated, neighborhood, that was specifically zoned to keep the riff-raff (anyone non-white or working-class) out. It is like a gated suburb in the middle of the city."

And?

Known Unknown said...

" I guess in the abstract since it was a private street, the McCloskey's might have some property right in the street itself, but that is a bit of a stretch."

THE STREET IS PRIVATE. THEY PAY FOR IT. It's not a public thoroughfare. How hard is this to understand?

Bilwick said...

Known Unknown wrote:

"THE STREET IS PRIVATE. THEY [the McCloskeys] PAY FOR IT. It's not a public thoroughfare. How hard it this to understand?"

"Liberals" and other collectivists can often be slow-witted. (See Inga's posts, for example.) They're especially dense when it comes to private property.