July 16, 2020

"Zephyrinus's predecessor Pope Victor I had excommunicated Theodotus the Tanner for reviving a heresy that Christ only became God after his resurrection."

"Theodotus' followers formed a separate heretical community at Rome ruled by another Theodotus, the Money Changer, and Asclepiodotus. Natalius, who was tortured for his faith during the persecution, was persuaded by Asclepiodotus to become a bishop in their sect in exchange for a monthly stipend of 150 denarii. Natalius then reportedly experienced several visions warning him to abandon these heretics. According to an anonymous work entitled The Little Labyrinth... Natalius was whipped a whole night by an angel; the next day he donned sackcloth and ashes, and weeping bitterly threw himself at the feet of Zephyrinus."

Stray information about religion, picked up not because I was searching for the most depressing religion — see previous post — but because I was wondering what was happening in the world in the year 199 so I could make a joke to amuse someone who'd emailed me privately and made a typo in the process of writing that something had been going on since 1999.

The answer is that Zephyrinus became Pope in 199.

And I'm wondering — because I happen to be a person who audibly struggles with something while I am asleep (so I am told) — what it is like to be whipped a whole night by an angel. And will the whipping stop if I don the modern equivalent of sackcloth and ashes and throw myself at the feet of the modern equivalent of Zephyrinus?

ADDED: Gauguin's "Vision After the Sermon (Jacob Wrestling with the Angel)":

25 comments:

Rob said...

Whipped a whole night by an angel. They made that poor bastard work for his 150 denarii a month.

Temujin said...

I'm confused. A lot of Latin names will do that do me. But in this post are you calling Meade, Zephyrinus?

James L. Salmon said...

No, but you might get shot if you refuse to parrot orthodoxy.

Say her name
Jessica Doty-Whitaker
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8515507/Young-mother-24-shot-dead-fianc-saying-lives-matter.html#comments

robother said...

Racists in the hands of an Angry DiAngelo.

Sebastian said...

"to be whipped a whole night by an angel"

Hey, angels: you got work to do. Centuries of lassitude are enough. Have you heard about Robin DiAngelo?

Bob Boyd said...

what it is like to be whipped a whole night by an angel

Expensive...would be my guess.

Wince said...

Althouse said...
And I'm wondering — because I happen to be a person who audibly struggles with something while I am asleep (so I am told) — what it is like to be whipped a whole night by an angel.

"She's whipped by an imaginary douche."

Dave Begley said...

A real angel wouldn't wipe anyone but the devil. Angels are incapable of evil. Fake dream.

Ann Althouse said...

“ No, but you might get shot if you refuse to parrot orthodoxy.”

Fake news I think. Read the whole story, because that’s edited down propaganda.

Ann Althouse said...

“ A real angel wouldn't wipe anyone but the devil. ”

Slathered in mustard.

Char Char Binks, Esq. said...

That looks like an illegal chokehold.

daskol said...

A Gaugain of all painters posted by a law professor of all people. If that ain't a white supremacy dog whistle then there isn't such a thing.

Bruce Gee said...

If you want some REAL fun, read the history of Arianism in the early church.

robother said...

"Although [Zephyrinus] was not physically martyred for the faith, his suffering – both mental and spiritual – during his pontificate have earned him the title of martyr..." They couldn't even wait 200 years to lower the martyrdom bar.

n.n said...

A gross conflation of logical domains. There is the body, the mind, and the spirit. Science is only capable of detecting correlations, not discernment of origin and expression. We can only consider independence in an established, typically narrow, frame of reference. What we know, don't know, and cannot know.

traditionalguy said...

Dreams that challenge me to a fight are usually a version of one in which persons in the room ignore me. My response to that is yelling at them until the wife awakens me.’Serves them right. In the real world I am not permitted to yell but must resort to witty sayings that they only realize was said against them later on.

narciso said...

the plain text argues against that heresy, of course silva dismisses the gospels blaming them for hitler, having adopted the hochhuth libel against pope pius,

James L. Salmon said...

Ann,

Why do you say the Jessica Doty-Whitaker story is Fake?

Her fiance was present when the initial dispute / argument broke out and he says that argument began when someone in another group said, "Black lives matter" and Jessica responded, "All lives matter." After a heated discussion - during which individuals on each side brandished weapons - the groups separated. A few minutes later SOMEONE shot Jessica. Was it a member of the group that said "Black lives matter?" Maybe, maybe not. He told his story. The BLM crowd fled and has not gone to the police with their side of the story as far as we know.

We do know that anonymous commentators on Jessica's Facebook page are alleging she / someone in her group used the N word and she "got what she deserved." Ok. Let's assume, for sake of argument, that instead of saying "black lives matter" as they passed by that members of the BLM group told Jessica and her Hispanic finance to "take your greasy asses back to Mexico" and that those in Jessica's group responded with racial slurs of their own. OR, let's assume that Jessica's group started the spat with racial slurs aimed at the BLM group.

Do you agree, in either scenario, that she "got what she deserved?"

Jessica is as dead today as she was the day she was shot. That part of the story isn't Fake. Is the "Fake" part of the story that she said "all lives matter?" Or is the "Fake" part of the story that she was shot, even in part, for saying, "all lives matter?"

Several months ago we were assured that the statues being torn down by Antifa and Black Lives Matter activists were statutes of traitors / Confederates and that those activists would NEVER tear down statues of the founders, like Jefferson and Washington. Antifa and Black Lives Matter activists blew right through Jefferson and Washington and are now tearing down statutes of Lincoln, Frederick Douglas and the Virgin Mary.

Post Jessica Doty-Whitaker do you feel more or less inclined to tell your local Antifa / BLM activists in Madison "all lives matter" when they are busy tearing down Lincoln's statue? Are you more afraid of being whipped all night by angel or being shot and killed by an Antifa / BLM?

AlbertAnonymous said...

That would be Saint Zephyrinus, 15th Pope I believe.

Oddly St. Sixtus was the 7th pope, rather than the sixth. Or so I’m told.

Quaestor said...

I have never seen that Gauguin before. Frankly, I always found his more famous Tahitian period works less than interesting. (Chunky green women, did he sail to Tahiti or Mars?) The severance of his relationship with Gauguin presaged a definite uptick in Van Gough's aesthetic. Nevertheless, Althouse's choice of illustration persuades me I may have been wrong. Perhaps he deserves another look, concentrating on the early work fueled with less alcohol.

An angel, a schnook in a head-lock, and a frisky bovine occupy a dimensionless vermillion space — that's a definite vision, alrighty. And a rather gratuitous and forced compositional element (yawn). What's interesting are the women, particularly the hats. Strange hats, but strangely familiar. Brittany! So I follow the link, and voila! Wikipedia says the painting was done in Brittany. That's rather clever, the painter shows us an ecstatic vision, but anchors it firmly to a specific place and experienced by specific people, namely Breton women wearing peculiar hats.

Peculiar hats and ecstasy seem to go hand-in-hand. RC nuns are never bareheaded and much more given to visions and communications from Beyond than monks who generally do not wear hats, the Cisterian cowl being more ornamental than functional. Is the proximity of the brain to the strange hat important in a causal relationship? Pussy hats and insanity are strongly linked, though I suspect in that case its more symptomatic than causal.

Josephbleau said...

Of all the heresys I think that the Arians got it right. They said works on Earth mattered. They said Jesus was God's corporal, a subordinate officer. The holy ghost was just Paul's way of saying FU to the "real" apostles. Arians don't like Paul much.

BleachBit-and-Hammers said...

My boyfriend, Waldemar Januszczak, has an entire show on the life of Gauguin.
Everything you'd ever want to know.
Including some myth busting about his family life.

I recommend highly.

mikee said...

When the evangelical Southern Baptists would bother me at college, I'd ask them if I could pray for their return to the One True Church, Roman Catholicism. Ended evangelizing faster than anything else I tried.

Being whipped by an angel leaves no physical marks, but is worth a humblebrag, I'd say.

daskol said...

For not nuns, those Breton ladies look a lot like nuns. Thanks for clarifying and otherwise sharing Q.

DavidUW said...

Heretics should all be burned. As for the Arians, if Jesus is subordinate, there is no Christianity; it's just a lesser offshoot of Judaism.