In 1988, Clevelanders erected a statue to Christopher Columbus in Little Italy.... It is allegedly a monument to a legendary Italian explorer and a symbol of Italian-American pride. Except it isn't. Columbus is not someone we should celebrate. He was a racist monster who initiated the genocide against indigenous Americans.... He was, as historian Patrick Wyman put it, "a dogshit person even by the standards of the late 15th century." We don't even know if Columbus was Italian...
If Italian-Americans in Cleveland want to celebrate one of their own, they need look no further than the iconic Ettore (Hector) Boiardi, AKA Chef Boyardee. Born in Piacenza, Ettore immigrated to the U.S. at age 16 in 1914. He eventually moved to Cleveland, where he opened a restaurant, Il Giardino d'Italia, that was so popular people asked him to bottle his sauce for them.
Boiardi and his brothers built a canned food empire from the ground up....
July 5, 2020
The proposal to take down a statue of Columbus in Cleveland and replace it with a statue of...
... Chef Boyardee!
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The idiots that denigrate Columbus would get lost crossing the street. He was one of the great navigators of world history. He was also Genoan long before there was an "Italy."
even by the standards of the late 15th century
And is there any reason to believe that one Historian's viewpoint? The journalist likely shopped around 'til they found someone with a viewpoint that aligned with the point they're making. Judging 15th (!) century people by 21st Century mores is stupid.
I do like the idea of a Chef Boy-ar-Dee statue. I'm sure the Entity that now holds the Chef in their Corporate Bosom agrees. (Googles: Con-Agra). What an American Success Story!
These people have way too much time on their hands, I am sure paid for by you and me. When the bonus unemployment deal runs out they will have to go back to their shitty jobs or back to their academic enclaves where their positions, once secure, are under threat. Fuck them every one. I hope their lives continue to be a sequence of bad luck.
I have heroes across the ethnic, national, racial spectrum, almost entirely musicians and composers.
On my own ethnic team, the whites, I adore Bach, Beethoven, Chopin, Liszt, Mozart, The Band, The Rolling Stones, Benny Goodman, George Gershwin. Hell, I could keep going for a while.
On the black side, I love Muddy Waters, Scott Joplin, Elmore James, Hound Dog Taylor, Nat King Cole, etc. It’s a along list.
The Asians are really up and coming, more as performers than as composers. Yu Lundi is a great Chopin interpreter. Thu Le is a fantastic, and very beautiful classical guitarist.
I’m a great believer is choosing my heroes (and heroines) based on whether they sound good. As Duke Ellington said: “If it sounds good, it is good.”
How did the chef feel about gay marriage? Did he allow blacks to eat in his restaurant?
I have heroes across the ethnic, national, racial spectrum, almost entirely musicians and composers.
On my own ethnic team, the whites, I adore Bach, Beethoven, Chopin, Liszt, Mozart, The Band, The Rolling Stones, Benny Goodman, George Gershwin. Hell, I could keep going for a while.
On the black side, I love Muddy Waters, Scott Joplin, Elmore James, Hound Dog Taylor, Nat King Cole, etc. It’s a along list.
The Asians are really up and coming, more as performers than as composers. Yu Lundi is a great Chopin interpreter. Thu Le is a fantastic, and very beautiful classical guitarist.
I’m a great believer is choosing my heroes (and heroines) based on whether they sound good. As Duke Ellington said: “If it sounds good, it is good.”
staggering ignorance,
https://www.thoughtco.com/first-new-world-voyage-christopher-columbus-2136437#:~:text=The%20First%20New%20World%20Voyage%20of%20Christopher%20Columbus,of%20Columbus%27%20First%20Voyage.%20...%206%20Sources.%20
Is this the onion? Just once it would be nice to see a "journalist" take a pulse of the actual citizens instead of assuming they know what they want.
Columbus sounds almost as bad as Mohammed.
1984 was fiction when I had to read it in high school.
These losers think the Amerindians were noble savages living in a utopia.
The speed with which this latest episode of cancel culture has turned into farce is quite remarkable.
Thank goodness we have historians around to point out the dogshit people of the 15th century.
ahem "boy"
that's racisss.
To save the Columbus statues, we may have to start spreading the rumor that he was African.
Maybe we can put a Brawndo ad right there on the statue. The Vikings found the New World long before Columbus did, but his pioneering achievement had a far grander legacy than the Vikings did. If liberals think most Americans would take this deal, they're dumber than even my cynicism imagined.
They'll be tearing down the Chef Boy-ar-Dee the day after it goes up.
Can't have the builder of a canned food empire as a statue!
They only have room for one statue in Columbus?
Is Chef Boyardee as harmful as the Land O Lakes Indian or Aunt Jemima or Uncle Ben? Chef Boyardee was a highly respected businessman. He's not a made up cartoon. But does that even matter?
Also this anti-Columbus thing is pretty bigoted. It's anti-Western, it's anti-Catholic and its anti-Italian. Italians were the victims of the largest single mass lynching in U.S. history in New Orleans (of course, our country's most disgusting city).
Canned ravioli is not a culinary milestone to be celebrated.
The Italian-Americans here--there are quite a few--put a statue of Columbus in one of the smaller parks here . . . I'm guessing in '92 (embarrassed not to know).
As I drove by one morning a few weeks ago, I thought, "How long?" The net day someone had slapped red paint on it, but that has happened before I think.
Narr
No calls for removal that I know of
A statue of Luigino "Jeno" Francesco Paulucci might be in order, but it would have to be in Duluth. He's the Italian who started - wait for it - Chun King.
It's gotta be Boaty McBoatface.
Columbus sought to challenge the conventional beliefs about the side of the world, and prove everyone wrong about the impossibility of sailing west to reach the Orient. He was utterly wrong, and in the process completely changed the course of history. That, in a nutshell, is the superiority of the West: a willingness by daring men to challenge the accepted wisdom, and in doing so the often change the world, even when their initial ideas were wrong.
I could have sworn that Ettore Boiardi was Columbus' chef on his boat.
Would these idiots feel better if Muhammad had discovered this land? Would things have worked out better?
All in all, which of the two spread more morbidity?
if Chef Boiardi gets a statue can they keep the TradeMark protection
Chef Boiardi was a great American. I bet he would be pissed about the fools wanting to remove Columbus from American history. Sitting Bull, Geronimo, Cochise were sworn enemies of the United States of America (and not very nice to their fellow "Native Americans"). Take down their statues and monuments? (I say "No.")
Now that's using the ol' noodle.
The Twin Towers were toppled in protest. Now, the statues are toppled in protest, and are to be replaced with carbohydrates... which are a first-order forcing of [catastrophic] [anthropogenic] climate change, or perhaps changing climate.
Columbus is not a favorite sun of actual Italians. Dante would have been a better choice.
AHHHHH, spaghetti and meatballs in a can. Whatta contribution!
If the problem was who is being honored by the statue, this might not be an awful idea. It would be a bad idea mind you - giving into the mob is always a bad idea - but it would be a reasonable position for a democratically decided change. The problem is two-fold:
1. At this point, it has become clear that who the statue honors makes no difference. They tore down Grant. They tore down Heg. They tore down an elk. They want Gandhi gone. They defaced a monument to a black Civil War regiment. You cannot satiate people who just want to watch the world burn, nor the useful idiots who go along with it.
2. There is literally no one that could meet the mob's standards, especially since they change so rapidly that it is impossible to keep up. Martin Luther King, Jr. would be problematic. Harvey Milk would be problematic. Barack Obama would be problematic. Joe Biden would be problematic, though they have a point on him. Every single member of the mob would be problematic, as would every single human being who has ever lived, lives now, or will live in the future. If this was a movement about actually grievances then perhaps some sort of compromise could be found. You cannot compromise with idealistic nihilist fanaticism.
I finally got around to watching the short Biden speech from yesterday instead of just reading the transcript. Did anyone else actually watch it? It wasn't even a short speech- it appears that they edited together a series of recorded sentences with very brief glimpses of Biden speaking interlaced with various images. It would appear that Biden isn't even capable of giving a short prepared speech of less than 2 minutes. This makes sense now- I have watched numerous Biden interviews the last couple of months and ad pitches- I was shocked when I read that he gave even a minute long prepared address- I get it now- he didn't- they had him read each sentence separately, and then put the thing together afterwards to make it look like a single sitting and recording.
The movie "Big Night," set on the Jersey shore. Two brothers running an Italian restaurant. The more serious chef wants to serve authentic Italian food with no compromise with the American customers who want everything bland and generic. He may be forced to go back to Italy. The other brother has one foot in this project, but the other foot firmly planted in a dream of becoming American--with or without nearly tasteless Chef BoyarDee food. Their competitor tricks them into spending their last dollar.
Some funny things about Columbus. He didn't really want to be "here"; he thought his voyages would only be worthwhile if they reached the Pacific, and indeed the spice islands specifically. No such luck. With later immigrants there is more of a sense that they wanted to be here, but it was a struggle.
There's a statue of a somewhat famous Italian in Hamilton, Ontario, near where I live. He never lived in Canada; probably was never here. But many people from his home town came here to work, mostly blue collar jobs. The statue celebrates the link between an Italian city and the Canadian one which became home for many of his fellow citizens. Unfortunately, the statue shows him ... holding a cigarette.
https://www.thespec.com/opinion/columnists/2017/10/12/mahoney-hamilton-s-new-sciascia-statue-has-arrived-cigarette-in-hand.html
At his worst, Columbus might've qualified as an honorary Aztec. Maybe.
Before Columbus: How Africans Brought Civilization to America
People who have accomplished nothing of any note try to erase the memory of men who have great accomplishments.
Because they were not perfect by the standards of 500 years later.
What, no votes for Charlie Sheen as Wild Thing from the movie Major League?
I'm partial to Chef Milani myself.
A statue of Chef Boyardee instead of Uncle Ben or Aunt Jemima sounds racist and must be extolling White Supremacy.
Another instance of systematic racism ... in the food industry.
cOlUmBuS dIdN't dIsCoVeR aMeRiCa
Instead of leftists screaming about changing the name of the Redskins, it appears they have larger issues with the name of the city itself.
At least Columbus stopped the Caribs from eating the Arawaks.
Eleanor: "Canned ravioli is not a culinary milestone to be celebrated."
During WWII Chef Boyardee became one of the largest suppliers of food to the US and allied military forces.
At the end of WWII, with govt contracts going away, Chef Boyardee had tremendous capacity and no where to go with it, so they sold the company to another company and that company immediately shifted production towards the civilian market with canned goods.
So, whenever you eat canned Chef Boyardee products, you are eating what US troops ate in WWII.....lets just hope you haven't purchased 1944 production lots.
`So I looked up the "historian: who claimed that Columbus was a dogshit person by the standards of his day. Patrick Wyman has a PhD in Medieval History from USC 2016. I think he gave up on the idea of seeking a professorship--which means he's smarter than the average PhD these days. But he makes his living by doing podcasts on his version of history. It's easier to spout codswallop that people will swallow on Podcasts---no immediate feedback whilst the Podcaster plods along.
But Columbus was a doer--not a spouter. And one should evaluate people00even historical figures--by their actions. PhD Patrick Wyman would not have had a USC to go to in the 21st Century if "dogshit" Columbus hadn't done his thing in 1492. And perhaps that might have been a better result; No Columbus; No Phd Wyman. Your mileage may vary.
The movie completely missed the mark, but if it had assigned the rise of stupidity to the proper cause, "Idiocracy" would have been one of the amazing works of our time, much like "1984" and "Animal Farm" before it. Pay attention people, becuase these times are not going to be believed by humans in the future. I'm not even sure I could explain it if I had to. I guess I would just say lots of dumb people got excited and did dumb stuff, and everybody let them. It's like letting your toddler run free in the supermarket as he experiences a tantrum.
Jim at: "Instead of leftists screaming about changing the name of the Redskins, it appears they have larger issues with the name of the city itself."
Far left moron Senator Tammy Duckworth, a real LLR-lefty Chuck favorite, has already said George Washington statues need to come down.
Not surprising in the least LLR-lefty Chuck would be all over that....when he isn't attacking children and women that is.
Given that most of the natives were wiped out by disease, does it really matter who initiated it? The "genocide" was going to happen sooner or later.
So, the capitol of Ohio is Boy-ar-Dee? And of the US is the District of Boy-ar-Dee? The Mighty Boy-ar-Dee River empties into the Pacific west of Portland, OR. The importance of the Boy-ar-Dee Exchange in the bio-sphere can hardly be over-estimated.
Yancey Ward said...
I finally got around to watching the short Biden speech from yesterday instead of just reading the transcript. Did anyone else actually watch it? It wasn't even a short speech- it appears that they edited together a series of recorded sentences with very brief glimpses of Biden speaking interlaced with various images. It would appear that Biden isn't even capable of giving a short prepared speech of less than 2 minutes.
7/5/20, 12:55 PM
Yup, I tried searching for the actual speech, instead of the absurdly fawning coverage, and realized the same thing. If they can't get Joe Biden to sound coherent for a minute straight, there will be no debate. Period. There isn't enough fakery or wizardry in the world to hide this. It's amusing to think that a "transcript" of a minute long ad didn't set off Althouse's alarm bells, but here we are.
All Afternoon I'm singing "We're having Beef-a-Roni....Beef with Macaroni! Beef-a-Roni, such a treat, Beef-a-Roni's really neat, Beef-a-Roni can't be beat Hooray!!!!!! For Beef-A-Roni!"
The icons are fixed points in the American narrative (right or wrong). This narrative becomes the unifying story (true or not) for which the nation gets its identity. Kind of like the ancient myths gave cultures their common meaning. Remove the fixed points and you can change the narrative more easily.
Given that most of the natives were wiped out by disease, does it really matter who initiated it? The "genocide" was going to happen sooner or later.
Not if they wore masks.
In 1492 China had a fleet, not three small ships, a fleet with thousand of soldiers ready to explore the lands towards the east. The operation was cancelled on the whim of the Emperor. Had the Emperor not do sone, the US would be one of the provinces of China and none of us would be here today including the sanctimonious professor Patrick Wayne.
As comenter Birkel once posted several years ago there are roughly 3.1 million square miles in the US and roughly 3.1 million Indians in this country and the rest of us are squatting on some Indians land. Somehow I don't see this mob packing their bags and leaving.
This should improve Franco-American relations. Or not -- who cares?
In other "unexpected" news, the lefty/LLR-lefty media is also conjuring up fake quotes from Gov Noem to try and "Reset" the "its only confederate statues we are tearing down" lies.
Gov Noem: Sharp, attractive and a principled conservative.
In LLR-lefty Chuck World, that's Strike 1, 2 & 3.
Even worse, she isn't in physical striking range for Anger Management Case LLR-lefty Chuck.
I am almost certain, put to a vote, we could get statues approved of Chef Boyardee, over Christopher Columbus, any day, and the anger of the white boys would make it worth it at almost any price.
Didn't I once warn you guys would HATE the future?
Dr Wyman has no tenure track position and is a MMA fighter, thus a supporter of inflicting pain on fellow human beings. I want to see his peer reviewed paper demonstrating that Columbus is equivalent to dog shit, otherwise according to academic standards, he is not credible. His use of such a biased label to describe Columbus indicates a disregard for standards of academic discourse and objectivity. He can opine but needs to have a published argument to support his public comments. His invective makes me concerned he is acting out of rage, not reasoned thought.
Franklin Roosevelt removed Japanese Americans from their property and arraigned a situation where they had to sell out for next to nothing to corrupt California Politicians suspected of being Roosevelt cronies, why was their property not held in a trust where it could not be stolen. This is just a bad as the Lakota Sioux, and unlike the Sioux, the Japanese did not steal their land from the previous tribe by war.
A brilliant Italian-American appellate attorney I know, who is from South Philadelphia, has given talks on Chris Columbus. According to my friend's research, what we know about Columbus comes almost totally from 4 historic sources. Three of these sources (one of which is the writing of Columbus himself) reveal Columbus to be a deeply religious man whose concern for Native Americans was actually way more kindly and truly Christian than was typical of his contemporaries. Only one source--written by a sworn enemy who was angling for Columbus's position--makes any mention of the alleged cruel acts now attributed to Columbus.
New proposal: We only honor things I thought were cool when I was a kid.
Build statues to bicycles with really small front wheels.
Beefaroni - every night.
Tim Conway, making Harvey Corman crack up, as the height of comedy.
iguanas are DINOSAURS...
"... the anger of the white boys would make it worth it at almost any price."
White boys don't get angry on their own behalf, Crack. Only for the causes of others. Haven't you been watching the riots?
So RigelDog, you are saying democrat propaganda works. I never doubted it.
The depictions in the early commercials ('60s, '70s?) were pretty damned racist to Italian Americans...no different than Aunt Jemima is/was to African Americans. Italians were played as very broad stereotypes...'That's a spicy a meat-a-ball!'
In the '50s my Italian father (first generation American) married my English, French, Irish mother. He joked later that at that time it was considered an interracial marriage : ) But at that time it was close to the truth.
Christopher Columbus sailed ships out of Genoa, Italy. But his family is believed to have been Jewish Conversos. Don’t tell the secret to the Progressives who are pure Antisemites, His statues honoring him as The Admiral of the Ocean Seas are in enough trouble. He invented the way to sail home from the Caribbean where the trade winds going west take sailing ships. The Admiral figured out that the trade winds circled back East if you first sailed your ship north along the Florida, Ga and Carolinas coast before heading east towards France.
Crack Emcee: "I am almost certain, put to a vote, ...."
Wow.
"Almost certain" you say.
Impressive.
I wonder how many New Yorkers are in favor of renaming Columbus Circle to Boy-ar-Dee Circle. And let's not forget Madison Avenue. Howsabout AntiFa Circle and BLM Avenue?
I am almost certain that those who write almost certain just might not be that certain at all.
The Taliban toppled monuments. Al Qaeda toppled towers. The some, select, Black Lives Matter bigots topple statues. Meanwhile, the indigenous Americans are attempting to purify their own history. Diversity and exclusion is a progressive condition.
he has endeavored to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers the merciless Indian savages, whose known rule of warfare is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes, & conditions of existence:
- unabridged Declaration of Independence
how do we tell a difference between a racist conquest and a non-racist one?
4 historic sources. Three of these sources (one of which is the writing of Columbus himself) reveal Columbus to be a deeply religious man whose concern for Native Americans was actually way more kindly and truly Christian than was typical of his contemporaries
...
Only one source--written by a sworn enemy who was angling for Columbus's position--makes any mention of the alleged cruel acts
So, unless there is a special or peculiar interest override, history is respected, democracy rules, and the statue stays.
Well, it's perfectly OK to judge a person by today's standard if you're in a judgy mood, but once you've done that it's many a step--if you're a thoughtful person--to destroying somebody else's representation of that person.
I have argued as an historian, to officials and official bodies, and in public, that statues, monuments, and memorials should be treated as important evidences of our past, good, bad, and ugly. All of them. I knew I was making the losing argument politically, but I'm surprised how quickly the "reasonable" demands escalated, and how cravenly our elites have acted . . . not acted.
Whatever the truth of Columbus's actual behavior, he was convinced he was part of a divine plan; not so sure about Cortez, or Pizzaro . . .
Narr
Does that make him better, or worse?
Funny thing is that no known Americans alive today have owned slaves nor are they acquainted with former slaves. I would think that these positive conditions would favorably and soundly influence current and future social actions.
Once past the slavery aspect claimed by racists of all skin color shades, perhaps we can honestly discuss what brings on dislikes labeled as racism. Methinks thinks that blame must go to the green-eyed monster.
Why do we find jealousy so painful to admit to? And is envy really a more deadly sin?
Old Chris was simply following the age-old, and innate, dictum that might makes right. But he brought in his wake a cultural revolution built on the rule of law that restrained the powerful, and help assure at least the potential for freedom and justice for all
Damn that guy
Cultural appropriation. They're not only toppling our statues. They're telling us what those statues signify. To Italian-Americans, Columbus represented the first Italian immigrant to America. He gave them standing and destiny in America. No statue of Columbus was ever erected to celebrate genocide. They were put up to honor a brave man who made a difficult and dangerous journey. The statue honors not only him but the journey that their own family made. There are people who had it worse than Italian-Americans on their immigrant journey, but there were many more who had it better. It's crass and arrogant to say that Columbus only signifies one thing, and left wing assholes get to say what that one thing is.
I take nothing away from the praise Columbus earned as a navigator, explorer, and sailor, but the fact is that if he hadn’t “sailed the ocean blue” in 1492, someone else would have discovered the “New World “. The fate of the Stone Age people of the Americas wouldn’t have been materially different.
Bad ass. Beleagured people look to their bad asses for deliverance. It's interesting to note that Italians here choose to celebrate the Corleones and not the Dimaggios. The Dimaggio family had a far more representative American experience than any Italian gangster and far more interesting too, but it's the gangsters who the Italian filmmakers wish to celebrate....Black people would prefer there to have been more Nat Turners than Uncle Toms or Twain's Jim, and he's the man they want to celebrate. But Turner was not the typical darkie of his era. Black people back then didn't talk like Howard graduates with a polisci major......Americans used to celebrate Andrew Jackson. He was our bad ass. Some British officer told a fourteen year old Jackson to shine his boots, and Jackson told him to fuck off. Jackson was not the kind of man you wanted to get on the wrong side of. If it weren't for Jackson, there would have have been no Union for Lincoln to hold together.
Bartolome de las Casas was a Dominican who was among the first wave of Spanish colonists to the New World. We know about the misdeeds of the Spaniards because of his reporting. He argued for the conversion and humane treatment of the indigenous population. Las Casas was certainly not the typical colonizer, but he existed and he was definitely a good guy. I don't think it would be possible to for the Aztec, Inca, or Mayan civilizations to ever produce a man like Las Casas. The Mayans used to believe that the sight of an infant being tortured to death was so pitiable that it would cause the heavens to weep. They tortured babies to alter the weather. The values that the statue topplers wish to celebrate are not those of the Aztecs or Incas, but those of colonists like Las Casas.
White Americans are always being told to look to Nazi Germany. The Nazis are what white Americans are capable of if they're not instructed and informed by the wise leadership of the woke. Why shouldn't black Americans look to Rwanda or Nigeria or Kenya or any of the other African countries where large scale massacres happen with disturbing frequency. American blacks are more Rwanda prone than American white are Nazi prone.
The Admiral figured out that the trade winds circled back East if you first sailed your ship north along the Florida, Ga and Carolinas coast before heading east towards France.
Yes, but you really need to go farther north to make any speed. I have forgotten Columbus' log on this. Been a while since I read "Admiral..."
The same thing is true of the Pacific. Trade winds rotate around the high. In Transpac, you sail close to the 1020 millibar line.
Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...
Columbus is not a favorite sun of actual Italians. Dante would have been a better choice.
That's just as knowledgeable as everything else you say.
As comenter Birkel once posted several years ago there are roughly 3.1 million square miles in the US and roughly 3.1 million Indians in this country and the rest of us are squatting on some Indians land. Somehow I don't see this mob packing their bags and leaving.
7/5/20, 1:51 PM
My Alexa says 3.8m sq mi. This confuses me because I thought I had learned in school that it was more like 6m square miles. Is that Canada? Or Russia (the USSR, back then, which would have been larger)?
Notable Italians connected to Cleveland, Ohio. Hmmmm. How about "Tony" Milano, the.Al Capone of Cleveland?
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