"Then, in May 2019, Westbrook released a 43-minute video in which she accused him of using his fame to 'manipulate someone’s sexuality,' referring to straight men. Charles vehemently denied this charge in a video of his own, and for a while, the two continued releasing videos about each other, centered on their fraying friendship."
I'm trying to read a damned near incomprehensible WaPo article about YouTube withdrawing advertising from some popular vloggers. You might not know the name Tati Westbrook, but her video that came out yesterday already has nearly 6 million views. Here, try to watch it — I tried but clicked it off at the 3-second mark because that stare and series of mouth noises utterly grossed me out:
I know I wrote about this controversy — whatever the hell it is — back when it was in the news last year. Ah, here it is, May 17, 2019: "I'm reading 'James Charles, Tati Westbrook, and the feud that’s ripping apart YouTube’s beauty community...' and I cannot understand it...."
Yeah, I still can't — and won't — understand it. The reason I'm blogging it today is because I was interested in the phrase "manipulate someone’s sexuality" — in "she accused him of using his fame to 'manipulate someone’s sexuality,' referring to straight men." Is it wrong to "manipulate someone’s sexuality"? Isn't that what people do when they have sex with another person — manipulate each other's sexuality?
If it's wrong to "manipulate someone’s sexuality," then it would seem that the only ethical form of sex is masturbation. A good theory to propound on the internet!
But I don't know what Tati Westbrook is really talking about. Something special against gay men? I don't know, and I'm not going to put up with Westbrook's grotesque mouth smacking to find out. Presumably, she fascinates other people with that strange, slow-talky facial action... manipulating their sexuality.
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91 comments:
Belichick does that smacking thing but only at press conferences. He's a master manipulator...
As a person with absolutely zero knowledge of the issues and persons involved here, I find the term "manipulate" to be ambiguous enough to lead me to want zero knowledge of the issues and persons involved here. Thank you and goodbye.
Note to self: Couple of drama queens are being dramatic. Time to move on to next topic.
Democracy Dies in Darkness!
When you call women gross, they're gross.
When I call women gross, I hate women.
Weird.
I got past the mouth noises, and as far as 36 seconds, by which time she'd said squat. And it was already beginning to feel like it would be 36 years before she said anything.
And not even anything coherent. I haven't got 36 years left.
Honestly, I would give her a room rater of 9-10. For the pencils.
"When you call women gross, they're gross. When I call women gross, I hate women. Weird."
False. I am totally exposed! I am completely vulnerable to the charge that I'm jealous and ugly and old. You think it's only you who get criticized. That's your blindness. Wake up.
Did Althouse just tell The Crack Emcee to "get woke" or is this the Babylon Bee I'm reading?
"manipulate someone’s sexuality"
It sounds like he was a creep who tried to push himself on men, including men who were straight, when they weren't interested. Sounds like others are dancing around hints of sexual assault as well.
Meh, the whole thing is convoluted and stupid.
I don't know anything about "manipulating" sexuality, but if it involves a minor then yeah, that's a problem.
Hard pass on this one. I confess an YouTube addiction to watch restoration videos and all those guys who restore 70 year old power hammers and things like that. There's a French guy with a serious wet sanding fetish who can make rusty steel look like butta out of a rattle can.
Men are more interested in things, while women are more interested in people. Even the gross ones.
I don't follow beauty vlogs. I myself have pretty much a pat hand in that regard. I find that if you keep your nasal hairs trimmed, the rest pretty much takes care of itself.
She should interview Scott Adams.
I believe she's saying she was manipulated by others to attack James in videos after he signed with her competitor. But "I did not call him a [bleep]" doesn't ring true.
I couldn't tell if her shirt said "Pence" or "Peace".
I made it to the tears and the "It's been a long time coming..."
I had to click it off then because I could feel grey matter loosening and readying itself to come out of my ears.
This is why I think the internet has made us dumber and is just fattening us up to become gator bait. If I'm still allowed to say that.
The only thing I'm less interested in than this mess are the pearls of wisdom intermittently bestowed on us by Crack, regardless of AA's fascination with him.
Huh. I don't really notice "mouth noises" with her.
but clicked it off at the 3-second mark because that stare and series of mouth noises utterly grossed me out
LOL. The subject of the video is 100% uninteresting, so I watched to see what utterly grossed you out - 'twasn't much of anything at all.
One not-unusual lip-smack as she started speaking, which I wouldn't even have noticed if not prompted to do so, after which she looked at, or didn't look at, the camera much like anyone else might.
You might want to add an "Althouse quirks" tag for things like this, to which you have an atypical reaction. Did she say something naughty about homos or whatever?
PS: it's not possible to define a "stare" within three seconds.
I warned about the women's vote.
"Could you stop that smacking?"
I fingered it out! James Dickinson is a transvestite of some sort, so anyone who hassles him is a Bad Person.
"In 2016, he became the first male ambassador for CoverGirl."
Huh. I don't really notice "mouth noises" with her.
Just at first. But it make me fear she had many such devices to use for effect. Like the person who can't answer a question without sighing first.
Hate the emo female thing in others and am embarrassed about it in my past. It's just hormonal fluctuations IMO. I don't miss them.
For annoying guys, go to Ted Talks. This is one that turned up at Gresham
Alex Edmans, who has a bunch of lectures there; his bio identifies him as a Ted-talker as well. He's squarely in the genre.
It's an additional lecture after the series of the year that he felt was needed.
The Ted genre is "I'm really smart and probably you're smart enough too to learn from me."
Trump would never do one.
Just doing some quick research, this woman is basically a caricature of everything the alt-right has warned women not to become.
"It sounds like he was a creep who tried to push himself on men, including men who were straight, when they weren't interested. Sounds like others are dancing around hints of sexual assault as well."
No, that's not what "manipulate... sexuality" sounds like.
It sounds like trying to be sexually attractive to someone that seems to be the sort of person who wouldn't find you sexually attractive. Isn't that what people do all the time if they are looking for a sexual partner? Is there some ethical principle that says you can't do that if you're a man and the other person is a heterosexual man?
I started then stopped the video before reading your post. Haha! I got through 4 seconds.
Lee Moore and Temujin said it for me.
But no one has remarked yet that she is extraordinarily beautiful.
When I hear "manipulate sexuality" I think of "grooming". Which isn't what people do a ll the time. But that isn't what happened here.
I skimmed through it and still don’t know what it’s about. She looks away to robotically read her script, but certain passages make her break down in tears, just like someone reading at a memorial service. Her face has great bone structure but no lips. It’s the vocal fry that bugs me. I first thought, if Ann can’t watch it, why is she telling us to? Then I thought, that’s exactly why. But this is destined to be one of those things in life we now and then hear about, but not enough to know what the hell it is.
Apparent lack of sexuality manipulation:
"The effect of lockdown on transitioning teen girls"
"I mentioned this on another thread, but as a worker in a high school we have found out during weekly phone calls home that since lockdown that most [7 or 8 out of 9] of our FtM students have de transitioned, perhaps as there is no longer the group peer pressure or affirmation from teachers?"
Althouse, Love you as a Blogger more than anyone. Your taste is Nearly, nearly impeccable.
But on this one, I just gotta say it: No one, I mean no one should care about this at all. I mean not even a tiny, tiny bit. Drop it and go enjoy the day. Take a pic or something.
I could barely read the post, and have absolutely no interest in the link.
If men are no longer allowed to seduce women why would they be allowed to seduce men?
Baby, it’s cold outside...
James Dickinson is a transvestite of some sort
Spice is nice, but incest is best.
"Manipulate" is, to me, the same as "grooming".
These are adults who do not live in the same household. Free people. All human interactions are complicated. Sexual ones even more so. Grow up and have agency over yourself.
There are sexual "grooming" scandals going on in the Science Fiction/Fantasy world. A female author I never heard of accused another author and his wife of "grooming" her when she was 25. She was an adult who got involved with a married man but she is the victim.
https://www.alexandrarowland.net/single-post/2020/06/25/On-Scott-Lynch-and-Elizabeth-Bear
Have agency over yourself. Don't be a victim. Don't let other people control you.
I'm with mikee on the one.
A progressive world for the transgender spectrum.
She is pretty enough, but takes forever to get to the point.
Whatever. As above I prefer Youtube restoration videos of power hammers than of women.
Weird I know.
Upshot is pretty clear though. She is in fear of being "cancelled", losing her Youtube channel, her sponsors, and thereby losing her livelihood because of her apparently not too PC criticism of a gay guy. Hence references to lawyers, etc. This is the same phenomenon that is becoming universal throughout your culture, on every front on which there are differences of opinions and interests.
This is just one more case of what is becoming universal. Stefan Molyneux just had his Youtube channel wiped the other day.
This will continue, and the moment Trump is out there will be a general, complete purge of any media outlet not producing what would pass muster at CNN, or the NYT. The powers that be will try to prevent the American volk from communicating with anyone, or among themselves.
So beautiful straight woman goes out of her way to teach a young man about make-up? She deserves everything that's coming to her for promoting degeneracy.
Leave the 'mos alone, white ladies. They don't like you.
I guess there's been this weird trend of "apology" videos going around the prominent Youtube influencer community lately. I wouldn't have known about it since I have zero interest in those sorts things, but I do watch the videos put up by this mental health professional guy named Dr. Todd Grande who has been putting up fairly entertaining response videos to many of them. I started watching his videos that analyzed cult leaders and serial killers a while back which I found entertaining and informative.
mikee said...
"Did Althouse just tell The Crack Emcee to "get woke" or is this the Babylon Bee I'm reading?"
Shhh.
The Germans are bombing Pearl Harbor - and she's on a roll,...
"False. I am totally exposed! I am completely vulnerable to the charge that I'm jealous and ugly and old. You think it's only you who get criticized. That's your blindness. Wake up."
Wait. What? Crack's point was that when men criticize women, we are told we are criticizing them because they are women, which means that we are misogynists. But you can do it with impunity. Although I suppose you could be called a misogynist too. Can a feminist be a misogynist?
The only thing I'm less interested in than this mess are the pearls of wisdom intermittently bestowed on us by Crack, regardless of AA's fascination with him.
I strongly disagree - I think Crack makes valuable contributions to these discussions and brings points of view that many (most?) of us would never have considered. I don't always agree with him, but it is the rare Crack comment that doesn't make me reassess my positions to at least some extent. I actually wish he commented more consistently instead of disappearing for long stretches.
Scott Adams talks a lot about cognitive dissonance - don't assume that everyone else is exhibiting cognitive dissonance without examining whether you yourself are guilty of the same thing.
"Is there some ethical principle that says you can't do that if you're a man and the other person is a heterosexual man?"
You mean, like, if Joe Biden sticks his fingers up my ass? Nah, I don't see any problem there. Now if I were a woman ...
She says that she was told that some of those people were minors who were being hurt.
Does this perhaps have something to do with the rise of facial cosmetics for men? I read a backpage article about it in the local daily paper.
This is about crushing the samizdat, the alternative content to that produced by the controlled media.
Its very telling that this is also being pushed by the major advertisers. These are all largely monopolist corporations. They dont care that there are many viewers that see their advertising, because their political purposes are much more important to them than what we would consider "normal" business reasoning.
Expect this to go to max the day after the election. They will, between them, do their utmost to crush all the guerilla media.
"I am completely vulnerable to the charge that I'm jealous and ugly and old."
Not that I would charge you in any way, but how can "old" be a "charge"? As in, "you're just saying that because you're old"? Even then, it's weak stuff.
Well, straight men (with any self-awareness and self-respect) should be avoiding "beauty communities" like the plague, so it's pretty much a non-issue. We're not freakin' Persians, for crying out loud!
"the feud that’s ripping apart YouTube’s beauty community"
Oh my god, no! And here I'd been all worried about the pandemic and the riots.
Person caught up in her own drama like Frodo in the webs of Shelob's cave, complete with bad acting and narcissistic pretensions. In other words. a Biden voter.
"damned near incomprehensible WaPo article..."
An evergreen statement.
At least so far as rational thinking applies.
"...trying to be sexually attractive to someone that seems to be the sort of person who wouldn't find you sexually attractive..."
You mean like on Firelfly, when Mel wore a dress and bonnet to ambush the robbers with Jayne?
It sounds like trying to be sexually attractive to someone that seems to be the sort of person who wouldn't find you sexually attractive.
You mean like on Firefly when Mel wore a dress and bonnet to ambush the robbers with Jayne?
"I swear by my pretty floral bonnet I will end you." Good line.
You mean you read beyond "beauty and makeup community"? Is that what retirement is doing to you?
How long can you go without manipulating yourself? Are you the master.....er.....um......leader of your domain?
How dare you not be fascinated.
"'"Manipulate" is, to me, the same as "grooming".' These are adults who do not live in the same household. Free people. All human interactions are complicated. Sexual ones even more so. Grow up and have agency over yourself. There are sexual "grooming" scandals going on in the Science Fiction/Fantasy world. A female author I never heard of accused another author and his wife of "grooming" her when she was 25. She was an adult who got involved with a married man but she is the victim."
I agree. Where is the line between trying to be attractive — fixing up your looks, being pleasing, paying attention to a person, letting them know what you can and will do sexually, etc. — and this nefarious "grooming"? If we're not talking about a child or someone who is mentally challenged, it just doesn't make sense.
On college campuses, manipulating someone's sexuality gets you expelled.
That is the Leftist, feminist position.
No cafeteria options available.
As Woody Allen says: Don't knock masturbation. It's sex with someone you love.
Maybe that slow-talking and mouth-noise-making is a form of ASMR. That is, it's not even important what she is saying but her way of saying it is reaching into the nervous system in a way that is very pleasurable for some people. My reaction was sensing that and saying, no, you cannot enter MY nervous system.
Well, I got deeper into the video than Ann. Made it all the way to the 31 second mark. WTF is wrong with the world where a good chunk of people feel the drive to video their Performative Trauma.
Well, I got deeper into the video than Ann. Made it all the way to the 31 second mark. WTF is wrong with the world where a good chunk of people feel the drive to video their Performative Trauma.
As someone said, Kim Kardishian became a billionaire simply by "getting people to look."
The feud gets people to look.
Also, "I am completely vulnerable to the charge that I'm jealous and ugly and old."
I would never call you ugly, Althouse. It's rude and untrue as far as I can tell.
Just went to Todd Grande's analysis video and within a few seconds he already made me laugh:
"This video is 40 minutes and 9 seconds long, which means it's 40 minutes too long>"
Mrs. Robinson you're trying to seduce me. Aren't you?
I have never liked The Graduate. I saw it for the first time in college and I couldn’t get past the stalkerish feeling it left.
I made to about 90 seconds—I tried to watch so you don’t have to!—but I had to give up. Talk about Rambling Rose! And then I saw it was 39 minutes long.
I don’t know what she was trying to say, but it verged on incoherent.
"If we're not talking about a child or someone who is mentally challenged, it just doesn't make sense."
This seems rather distant from your position a while back, that you should never have sex with anyone unless you are convinced that it is not only what he wants to do now, but also what he will feel good about having done later. Did I get that wrong?
Blogger mezzrow said...
Hard pass on this one. I confess an YouTube addiction to watch restoration videos and all those guys who restore 70 year old power hammers and things like that.
Yes! What is it with these videos that is so compelling?
YouTube's beauty community. YouTube has something like this, and WaPo thinks we give a shit, but it's banning right wing content with extreme prejudice. Crickets in the Darkness.
I'm not going to watch the video. Sorry. My tolerance is limited.
I will mention that YouTube is currently actively purging channels that they have decided they do not like. This has been joined by several other social media platforms and being supported by advertisers. We are going to get de facto national censorship at this rate, and quickly.
tommyesq said...
"I think Crack makes valuable contributions to these discussions and brings points of view that many (most?) of us would never have considered. I don't always agree with him, but it is the rare Crack comment that doesn't make me reassess my positions to at least some extent. I actually wish he commented more consistently instead of disappearing for long stretches."
Thanks, but this place gets CRAZY if I hang too long. It's better this way.
Proof our culture has grown so decadent that God will surely smite us.
Crack, the problem is we follow you around when you show up.
Blogger John Borell said...
"Manipulate" is, to me, the same as "grooming".
John Borell (and Althouse) I didn't listen long enough to know if every one involved were adults, or young adults, or whatever. I agree that a 25 year old isn't being groomed.
Althouse- there is a thing where mouth noises enrage some people. It might be a form of AMSR. I have a friend who cannot stand to hear people chew. It just sets her anger levels rising and it isn't a choice she's making. Maybe you have that a little bit.
I clicked into that video to hear the mouth noises and to see if I could get past the first few minutes, and then listened to it for 19 minutes before I came to my senses.
For some idiot reason, I wanted to see what this was all about without actually having to listen to the video. Apparently, according to Elle, the feud started when Charles promoted a competitor's beauty product in April 2019, and escalated to the point the "manipulating" comment was made in May 2019. The article included a limited amount of additional context to the quote:
"Oh my god, you tried to trick a straight man into thinking he's gay, yet again. And somehow, you're the victim. It's really disgusting to manipulate someone's sexuality especially when they're emerging into adulthood and don't quite have everything figured out..."
In response, Charles said in a now-deleted post:
"Boys have been a topic that I've talked a lot about on my social media journey, and it's a topic that I wish I haven't," he says. "I've been involved in a lot of unique and strange situations that have left people confused and upset, and I've learned the hard way about boys that I'm interested in and ones I should or shouldn't be talking to."
So it sounds like she accused him of trying to convince boys/young men, who were either straight or at least hadn't decided that they were gay, into a gay relationship, and at the time he didn't really deny this. In November 2019, he added that her remarks were "disgusting" and "very dangerous" and that "What that statement implies is that gay men are all predatory, which is disgusting, not true and very dangerous to put out there... The whole situation was scary for the LGBTQ+ community and paints a really bad picture of gay men."
Not really sure why Westbrook posted the most recent video now, but she apparently asserts that she had been manipulated into making the accusations in May 2019 by some other beauty bloggers who were jealous of Charles' success.
For what it is worth, Charles and Westbrook between them each have their own line of products and have combined had more than 22 million followers.
There’s nothing on earth quite like a cat fight between two bitchy girls.
Thanks, but this place gets CRAZY if I hang too long. It's better this way.
Like the truth, white people are probably best savored in short, small doses if you don't happen to be one and you're not inclined to buy into our fantasies. We may look stable, at least to ourselves, but we're heavily armed and sitting dangerously close to crazy most of the time.
It's how to got to where we are today. The human race is a strange, dangerous beast.
"I mentioned this on another thread, but as a worker in a high school we have found out during weekly phone calls home that since lockdown that most [7 or 8 out of 9] of our FtM students have de transitioned, perhaps as there is no longer the group peer pressure or affirmation from teachers?"
Now, that's interesting. And unsurprising. It's no fun being neurotic by yourself.
I watched 20 seconds of the video with the sound turned off. I was reminded of Jon Lovitz' phrase: "Acting!".
a damned near incomprehensible WaPo article
Are there any other kind?
I mustered up the courage to watch a few seconds beyond the 15 second mark. I could not watch anymore because she strikes me as a more annoying version of a few women I have dated (and married in one case).
Call me overly cynical and possibly sexist, but this seems close to standard fare in male-female arguments.
She's an attractive woman. Especially with the sound off. I got through 30 seconds after the first five with sound. I don't see how a straight man gets manipulated into gay sex unless he has an occasional bi orientation. I'm not entirely sure if that applies to prison sex where threatened violence is the means of "manipulation".
She's attractive with the sound off, but with it on, it would be hard to be less attractive. There is a short two-word phrase for my advice to her.
That opening would make a good SNL skit opening. She's all verklempt.
The hot/crazy matrix guy deserves a Noble prize.
He tricks straight men into having sex with him.
He does this by often times pretending to be a woman online, and then luring them to meeting places. I don't know if it ever works, but it's pretty darn gross. It's similar to posting a picture of yourself online that isn't you, catfishing.
When I was in my teens, and the internet wasn't a thing yet, this happened to me several times. We had something called a BBS (Bulletin Board System) and you would call it up on your phone with your modem. At first, you just left messages and caught up through messages. Later, people bought dozens of modems for their home and you could have 20 or 30 people "online" at the same time.
Usually we all knew each other because we lived within 20 miles, give or take, of each other. So we would have parties and meet ups and stuff. And there was always at least one gay guy. And then that gay guy would come "online" with a womans name and pretend to be a woman and hit on me. And flirt with me. And say sexual things to me, as a teen, pretending to be a female.
And then we would make plans to meet at one of the parties and it would be a gay guy and he and his friends would insist I was gay and just needed to come out of the closet.
Almost ended up in a few fights. Was pretty disgusting the lengths they would go to to trick me online and then lure me to these parties and pretend to be a woman interested in me. It made it even worse that I had already experienced rape by my neighbor when I was 8 years old.
Quite early on Tati states that the social media have become a destructive force which should be cast out of our lives. She makes her living on social media and her career is a product of the use of social media and now she is using social media to call on people to get off social media and this has made her more popular than ever on social media. And this whole is embodied in the longest string of cliches and banalities ever joined together on this planet so that like others I was unable to find out from listening what happened and couldn't keep on to find out. When I heard that James Charles had endorsed another line of beauty products but that this "betrayal" was only the opening scene in a still more terrible sequence of events, I gave up.
My reaction was sensing that and saying, no, you cannot enter MY nervous system.
Your weird reaction to this video indicates she did indeed "enter" your nervous system, and not for the mostly imaginary reasons you mentioned.
eric said...
He tricks straight men into having sex with him.
He does this by often times pretending to be a woman online, and then luring them to meeting places. I don't know if it ever works, but it's pretty darn gross. It's similar to posting a picture of yourself online that isn't you, catfishing.
Really? Oh shit. That's what you stand for, Ann?
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