June 22, 2020

Shoot horse?


Here's the Gary Larson cartoon.

Here's the ABC interview transcript. I've read the cartoon. I've skimmed the (long) transcript) and don't really see the analogy.

Here's something Adams says about analogies in his book "Loserthink":
Analogies are great when used for humor. They are also handy for describing a new concept. But I try to avoid using analogies in the service of persuasion or prediction because analogies are not good for that. The target of your persuasion will simply pick it apart for not being exactly the same as the situation you are debating. If you live to be a million, you’ll never see anyone win a debate with an analogy.

Good use of an analogy (describing something): His posture reminded me of macaroni.

Bad use of an analogy (persuasion and prediction): We should disband the U.S. Postal Service because the Hitler Youth movement started with cool uniforms too. That’s where it’s all headed.

As bad as analogies are for persuading, they are even worse for predicting. If someone tells you a male lion looks like a gigantic tan-colored house cat with a neck beard, it doesn’t help you predict how the lion will work out as a house pet.

106 comments:

Kai Akker said...

That's why the disciples would get so annoyed at having to listen to all those parables.

Richard Dolan said...

His analogy may not work as persuasion and prediction, but it's not bad as entertainment and general balloon-popping.

rehajm said...

Analogies are great when used for humor.

Humor is persuasive. If the humor is humorous enough, you can 'win' a debate by making argument irrelevant. Too busy laughing...

Sebastian said...

"Good use of an analogy (describing something)"

As Adams does with Bolton.

But then, what does it say about Trump that he hired such a vet?

narciso said...

there is a yosemite sam aspect with the stache, I didn't think he'd live up to that caricature,

YoungHegelian said...

number one that foreign policy and defense policy are not motivated by philosophy, grand strategy or policy.

Oh, God, DC is full of guys like this. When they say "philosophy, grand strategy or policy" what they really mean is "their way", because everyone else is just a fool for thinking otherwise. Of course, they won't get any traction in the political scene if they just come out & say "You idiot, I'm right & you're a total horse's ass!" so they say the other guy doesn't have a "philosophy, grand strategy or policy". It makes them sound much more urbane & selfless when they're neither.

Bolton lost most of the world when he classed Trump's decision not to kill an estimated 150 Iranians for a drone attack not on US forces but on an ally & that took no lives, as "it was the most irrational thing I've ever seen with a president". It makes sense that Bolton would so misjudge the reaction to his opinion. Many of these policy-wonky sorts are so steeped in their ideological bubbles that they really have no sense of what lies outside.

zipity said...


Pretty clear to me. To Bolton, every problem can be solved by going to war and bombing.

Rory said...

I thought that analogy and distinction were the entirety of legal argument.

Ken B said...

What range of responses to different situations did John Bolton recommend?

Lucid-Ideas said...

This one and this one were always my personal favorites.

My favorite review of Bolton's book thus far is by Domenech, "First, let me say that I love this book. I love everything about it. It is true unadulterated fan-fic for Bolton lovers everywhere. He is always right. He is always noble. His purposes are always true. Anyone who disagrees with him is an idiot, or possibly worse. Edward from Twilight has more flaws than this iteration of John Bolton, the mustachioed hero who can do no wrong� except to be, at a critical moment, surrounded entirely by idiots..."
I couldn't stop laughing.


Fernandinande said...

Analogies are like sandwiches.

I followed the twittering to Thomas Sowell:

"Historians of the future will have a hard time figuring out how so many organized groups of strident jackasses succeeded in leading us around by the nose and morally intimidating the majority into silence."

Readering said...

If Larson means Bolton's solution is always send a in strike that's fair, but well known. How did he only just get it? And it does not undermine Bolton's critique from 17 months' close daily observation of Trump in action.

Lem said...

The term for a war prone advisor is a hawk as opposed to a dove, i.e. a peaceful advisor.

A horse is a candidate.

A lame horse is a Joe Biden and the horse riding the statue of Teddy Roosevelt in NYC.

Wince said...

Bolton eschews arguing results or specifics (see below).

In the "shoot horse" analogy as applied to Bolton, I'm reminded of that once ubiquitous, vacuous phase as his knee-jerk argument:

"You just don't get it, do you?"

RADDATZ: Today as we sit here, do you think U.S. national security is stronger or weaker because of President Trump?

BOLTON: I think we're in a weaker position around the world. I think we have given up leadership in a wide variety of areas. There are plenty of international obligations that I am happy to get out of. Because I think they constrain the United States. The Iran nuclear deal's one of 'em, the INF treaty, which the U.S. withdrew from, is another.

There are a long list of such constraints that I think harm American national interests. But the fundamental point is that as the global power whose economy depends on ensuring as much stability as we can around the world, a retreat from concern about America's place in the world and the place of our allies inevitably leaves us weaker, no matter how big the defense budget.

So I think whether it's after four years or eight years -- whoever succeeds the Trump administration is gonna have an enormous amount of repair work to do. To me, as a lifelong conservative, this is extraordinarily disappointing. It's a huge missed opportunity. We had eight years, I think, of very poorly designed foreign and defense policy under Barack Obama. I saw the Trump administration as a chance to correct it. And we corrected precious little.

Gusty Winds said...

Come on. The analogy between Bolton and the Far-side cartoon is obvious. Bolton never saw a bomb he didn’t want to drop. And here we go with Katie Couric / Sarah Palin “what do you read” bullshit. Trump doesn’t like dropping bombs. Makes him the anti-thesis of Bolton. Remember how destabilized everything was going to be when Trump took out Qasem Soleimani? Bolton would have wanted the same neocon path of “let’s bomb the shit out of Iran.” Now he’s a bitter moron with a bad mustache, and the current liberal media darling. What a way to ride into the sunset.

Mark said...

Yet another example of one of Trump's 'best people' he was using to drain the swamp with proving to be a swamp-dwelling idiot.

P.T. Barnum would be proud.

WWMartin said...

As analogies go, that one wasn't bad. Bolton was clearly upset that options were being presented (and pursued) that didn't match his approach and, in some cases, that alternatives were being presented at all.

bagoh20 said...

It's wondrous how people who have always disagreed with Bolton to the point of finding him evil suddenly want his every word taken hook, line, and sinker. The power of TDS, is simply amazing.

stutefish said...

I think Adams is referring to Bolton's overall hawkishness, of the "rubble don't make trouble" school of thought. Bolton thinks Trump should be dropping more bombs on more of the people who are causing trouble for the US and its allies.

Iran is perpetrating shenanigans in Iraq? Don't talk, shoot.

Assad is perpetrating shenanigans in Syria? Don't talk, shoot.

North Korea is perpetrating shenanigans? Shoot.

China is perpetrating shenanigans? Shoot.

Now, I'm a hawk. I think there should be more horse-shooting going on in US foreign policy. Droning that Iranian Terror General is the kind of thing I'd like to see more of. (I'd also like to see that kind of thing accompanied by better PR cover and better prep against retaliation.)

So I think it's very interesting that Trump, who's allegedly some kind of ultraviolent incontinent man-baby, actually has a more measured and moderate response to global conflict than a mainstream conservative hawk like Bolton.

rhhardin said...

Old Ocean, with your crystal waves you resemble (by analogy) the parallel azure lines one sees upon the bruised backs of cabin-boys; you are an immense blue bruise slapped on the body of earth -- I like this comparison.

- Lautreamont

Yancey Ward said...

Satirical analogies, though, are powerful mocking devices.

Rosalyn C. said...

Bolton sounds unhinged. He doesn't believe Trump has any organizing philosophy or method. Trump has made it very clear that his philosophy is America First and doing what is best for the country and the American people. Not that complicated but Bolton is unable to comprehend. Makes me wonder what was the mindset of previous administrations?

Bolton keeps squawking about how Trump doesn't do things they way they used to in previous administrations and complains about Trump developing more personal relationships with adversaries, (which is of course a good thing), but Bolton thinks that Trump believes that means our countries are now friends. Bolton comes across as lacking any awareness or appreciation for Trump's talent with people. At the same time he is conducting a trade war, tariffs, coming down on Chinese espionage and theft of intellectual property etc., he's still keeping things manageable because Trump established a cordial personal relationship with President Xi. Trump is confronting China but we are not worrying about going to war right now.

Bolton seems to believe the only way to deal with adversaries is to try to annihilate them. "Shoot the horse"

n.n said...

Yes, shoot the horse, keep the rider. Any sustainable disparities can be compensated through kneecapping... kneeling the vulgar figure(s). Also, they should be disarmed in the fashion of contemporary sensibilities.

MikeDC said...

Seems like Bolton's "Shoot Horse" is "No negotiations, except via bombing"

doctrev said...

The problems with Bolton are the problems with neoconnery in general. There's an intense rhetoric about "facts," but in reality there are few men more ruled by their emotions anywhere on the planet. Your average teenage girl has more discipline and logic. They are portrayed as being incredibly meritocratic, but KSA has less nepotism than your average Hollywood type.

Martha Raddatz, paradoxically, shows more insight than the former NSA, which is extremely concerning. Bolton is too goddamn dumb to see that he was sidelined early in this Administration, and that the President clearly thinks intelligence briefings from hostile entities are a complete waste of his time. There's a sentiment of "hurr, the Emperor made a horse a Senator, look how crazy he is," that is completely unaware of the notion that Incitatus would be in the top 10% of modern American Senators.

It's pretty clear that Bolton was always a pawn, and that by the time Iran realized his particular brand of unfocused belligerence was not going to be the Trump strategy it was already too late for them. The fact Bolton's seriously going for "Trump's soft on China" as his primary drive shows that neocons have become even more inept since the Iraq debacle that they sponsored.

john_d said...

I think the analogy is that Bolton's "shoot horse" is "preemptively nuke Iran."

Churchy LaFemme: said...

They analogize horses, don't they?

Dave Begley said...

Bolton has pulled off an amazing feat. Both Republicans and Democrats hate him and he might end up losing his $2m advance.

What an idiot!

The Vault Dweller said...

When I saw the title, "Shoot horse?", I first thought of the basketball game HORSE.

In defense of Scott Adams, he did say that using an analogy for humor or describing a situation was okay in his book. And he is trying to get people to laugh at John Bolton and his foreign relations ideas. Although I suspect his over all goal is to persuade people to view John Bolton as a non-serious, ineffective person. But this kind of persuasion is different from the examples he gives, which seem more like using an analogy for reasoning or analysis. This seems more like framing John Bolton as a person that should be laughed at. Scott Adams is big on using images for persuasion largely for their emotional affect. Scott Adams wants to associate John Bolton with the image of a dumb Veterinarian. I predict this won't work on anyone under 35 or so, because I doubt anyone younger than that even knows what the Far Side cartoons were.

Todd said...

Note to self, to win any debate, hit other person in face with pie.

Ice Nine said...

Adams is right about using analogy in debate. I've learned this over the years. It is almost always as he says -- the reply is "Well that's not the same thing!" Or worse, using your example, "Sorry, I just don't accept that humans are as bad as macaroni!"

People have great difficulty grasping the fact that *analogy is not identity* -- rather than merely limited similarity. There is with analogy a conceptual block in many people, the degree of which, I think, falls along an intellect gradient.

Nonapod said...

I assume the analogy was about Bolton being a terminal hawk and only ever favoring aggressive, hardline responses to foreign adversaries and always disfavoring more "softer" responses. Bolton detested in particular things like Trump's usage of flattery and photo ops with characters like Kim "Lil' Rocket Man" Jung Un. Basically Adams is accusing Bolton of being 1 dimensional in his problem solving.

Michael K said...

I think the judge, Royce Lamberth, did Trump a favor when he let Bolton's book go to print. He does not tolerate bullshit well.

John henry said...

I understand that the book has been released to the internet as a free PDF.

Unauthorized, of course.

I'll find it tonight and download it.

Not a book I would buy or even read. I might be curious enough for a perusal, though.

Every time someone shoots at pdjt, they seem to hit themselves. Heckuva job, Bolton.

John Henry

Narayanan said...

Raddatz : Why is this the book President Trump doesn't want anyone to read?
-----------============
Trump is the humorous veterinarian right there >>> Bolton is the horse : Trump wants Bolton to as good as shoot himself and Bolton doesn't know he is being shot during any interview promotion he does

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

It's over. Althouse is backing away. I feel worst for Drago.

narciso said...

well even neocons, which bolton wasn't, know that military intervention is the last option, 'I read his book,' and he doesn't seem to understand it,

Drago said...

Dave Begley: "Bolton has pulled off an amazing feat. Both Republicans and Democrats hate him and he might end up losing his $2m advance.

What an idiot!"

Recall that LLR-lefty Chuck's and Inga's previous heroine and lawyer who were going to destroy Trump, Stormy and CNN/MSNBC Perma-Guest Avenatti, ended up owing Trump money.

Narr said...

"Shoot horse"? You mean Heroin? H? Beast? Hero?

No thanks!

Narr
Shit'll killya, like Boltstache

Drago said...

Dumb Lefty Mark: "Yet another example of one of Trump's 'best people' he was using to drain the swamp with proving to be a swamp-dwelling idiot."

Bolton was never pitched by anyone at anytime in anyway for any purpose as a swamp draining asset.

So, other than that, this "observation" of yours is every bit as "accurate" as your many other "observations".

The Vault Dweller said...

Blogger doctrev said...
It's pretty clear that Bolton was always a pawn


Yeah, I think Trump is very fond of using the good cop, bad cop routine in negotiating. And he wants to be the good cop because the good cop is ultimately the one who closes the deal. Bolton was picked to be a bad cop. It was probably the same situation for Mattis. I suspect that this is what a lot of the D.C. class don't like about Trump. He uses them as pawns. And no matter level you are in the D.C. class you want to feel like you are important, that your ideas and advice carry weight. This must be an almost insufferable blow to the ego of most in D.C. It is honestly not a very public servant-esque attitude to have.

Josephbleau said...

Good mathematicians think on analogies. Great mathematicians think in analogies of analogies.

I Callahan said...

Yet another example of one of Trump's 'best people' he was using to drain the swamp with proving to be a swamp-dwelling idiot.

I can't tell if you're lefty Mark or righty Mark, so if you're righty Mark, ignore this.

Lefty Mark: it's Trump's fault that he didn't know everyone in Washington so well that he knew which people to trust and which ones would stab him in the back first chance they got? Rest assured that he knows now, and the answer is anyone.

If Trump is reelected, I hope the first thing he does is to fire anyone who's a Washington insider. Then the second thing he does is to hire all replacements from outside Washington.

FullMoon said...

"Readering said...

If Larson means Bolton's solution is always send a in strike that's fair, but well known. How did he only just get it? "

.....................
Yeah, pretty sure Larson drew that in the'90's or turn of century.

Jim at said...

Yet another example of one of Trump's 'best people' he was using to drain the swamp with proving to be a swamp-dwelling idiot. - lefty mark

Trump fired him. One would think that would make you happy. Guess not.

Rabel said...

Shoot = Strategy

bbkingfish said...

Has Scott Adams yet followed through on his threat to sue that guy who described him on twitter as "The Louis Farrakhan of incel white nationalists?"

I couldn't believe a guy who fashions himself a humorist could possibly be upset about that very funny statement. Scott Adams must be a real weenie.

Michael K said...

A compendium of the reviews of Bolton's book, which is hilarious.

Trump let Bolton throw him in that brier patch.

I might even have to revise my opinion of those Democrats commie lovers like Dodd who hated Bolton and blocked Bush from appointing. They may have even gotten something right. By accident, of course. He really is an asshole.

Gunner said...

I hope Bolton enjoys the piddly money from his crappy book while President Kamala's flunkies govern the country.

Francisco D said...

Bolton really comes across as an arrogant and entitled twit.

Trump seems to make all the right enemies.

Howard said...

Scott Adams is no Gary Larson

Howard said...

I sawed this in the Drive-Thru Theatre back in the day. Look like it worth a re-watch

They Shoot Horses, Don't They? is a 1969 American neo noir drama film directed by Sydney Pollack, starring Jane Fonda, Michael Sarrazin, Susannah York, Red Buttons, Bruce Dern, Bonnie Bedelia and Gig Young. The screenplay, adapted from Horace McCoy's 1935 novel of the same name, was written by James Poe and Robert E. Thompson. The film focuses on a disparate group of characters desperate to win a Depression-era dance marathon and the opportunistic emcee who urges them on.

TreeJoe said...

I regret that I liked Bolton as UN ambassador. I liked that he boldly stood up for american interests in a body-politik that valued saying alot and saying nothing at the same time.

Now he's making big bold statements that make no sense. You know how you know Trump handled Iran beautifully? Because it stopped being reported on. Trump surgically wiped out the most senior military leader in the country in retaliation for killing an american contractor and leading another embassy "protest."

In my lifetime I can't think of a similarly proportionate and yet "We're not fucking around" response delivered by a U.S. president to an adversary regime. And the Iranians, by all accounts, did their little rocket attack and then stood down.

Instead of inspiring war, he took a rogue nation that is literally a state sponsor of terror (the largest int he world) and made them step back.

Bolton should be worshipping the results of that move as of 5 months later. Instead, this is what we get.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

I would like a show of hands on who thinks this book is good for Trump. Seems to be a pretty big fraction but curious to know how big.

Michael K said...

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...
It's over. Althouse is backing away. I feel worst for Drago.


How many times is ARM going to humiliate himself today?

Set up a pool ?

jimbino said...

It seems that Jesus is recognized as a master of the allegory and parable, which are considered extended analogies.

readering said...

Fullmoon. Thanks, meant Scott Adams! (Although Larson something of a prophet)

hstad said...

6/22/20, 12:21 PM
Blogger Sebastian said..."But then, what does it say about Trump that he hired such a vet?"
6/22/20, 12:23 PM

I'm constantly surprised why people keep asking this question? It exhibits a lack of experience in hiring people. Most people have who hire people have maybe at best a 50/50 success hit in the hiring process. For example, person's resume stellar but once that person is in the trenches a flop. Secondarily, even great references from Trump's advisors, based upon another person's say so or experience might make the employee a flop in the trenches. Because the environment is always changing and fluid requiring difference set of tools. Given that Trump is a 'newbie' to politics and the federal governments way of doing things am not surprised. "Sebastian" maybe your experience of omnipotence would be better, but I doubt it. It is a daunting task to replace so many thousands of appointments. Every President before has had the same failure rate. President Trump even more so since he came to office with very few politico's in tow.

Bruce Hayden said...

“When I saw the title, "Shoot horse?", I first thought of the basketball game HORSE.”


Not me. My first thoughts were of the book about David Thompson, who apparently founded the first white permanent (for about 20 years) habitation in W MT. A book about his travels in this area is titled “Sometimes Only Horses to Eat”. Much of it was based on his journals. He originally represented the Hudson Bay company, and explored much of north central and western Canada from there, and parts of the US that ultimately includes NW MT, N ID, and NE WA. He first explored up the Clark Fork river starting around Pend O’Reille around 1810, and determined to build a fur trading fort near the river and falls named after him (which was the limit of navigation on that river, according to a MT SCt case from about a decade ago). The next year, he returned with a number of horses and supplies. It’s only about 60-70 miles between there and Pend O’Reille, but it took better than a week to make the trek, through the very thick evergreen forests. Hunting was bad, and they had to resort to eating some of the horses who had gone lame on the trip. Ultimately though, after having arrived at their destination, right above the falls named for him, they ran into a band of Salish, who happily traded with them for meat and furs. Thompson’s fur trading post there was active for maybe the next 20 years, until the much less friendly Blackfoot pushed the Salish out (having been pushed over the Continental Divide by the even less friendly Sioux, whose tribes were flourishing by then by following the buffalo herds on horseback).

chuck said...

I didn't see the connection to shooting horses either. On the other hand, Bolton's main gripe seems to be that Trump didn't obey (Bolton's ) directions. Which was probably a good thing, because Bolton seems kind of clueless.

rcocean said...

Bolten's problem is he can't point to a single Trump foreign policy blunder and say "Look that hurt the USA, IN A CONCRETE WAY and it all happened because Trump didn't listen to me". Instead its all rhetoric. We're at peace, NK isn't shooting missiles, we destroyed ISIS, we seen to be getting along with Russia and China, and we're withdrawing troops from Germany and Syria.

All Bolten can say is: "Well, we should have bombed them."

BTW, Trump rejected bombing Ian when he was told it would've resulted in an estimated 1,400 dead civilians as "collateral damage", Bolten thought Trump was a wimp. We're well rid of that Neo-con. He's a rather disgusting person.

veni vidi vici said...

Bolton's shoot-horse is warmongering.

Unlike Churchill, he's one who believes war-war is better than jaw-jaw.

rcocean said...

Of course, NOTHING can be assumed about the Federal Judiciary, but based on the Court's opinion, and previous cases, Bolten won't be able to keep any of the $$ from his book. He violated his NDA AND published a book after being told it contained classified information. Nor did he care if US Foreign relations are damaged because he has blabbed confidential comments by foreign leaders.

Given his support for the shampeachment, and the fact that it was HIS underlings who were responsible for undermining Trump, I wonder if he was a double-agent all along.

Drago said...

Rasmussen Poll: President Trump Approval Rating at 46%, Higher Than Obama at Same Point

Ouch.

That's not going to make ARM's Beijing masters very happy at all.

On top of that, it appears Trumps Tulsa rally set viewing records across multiple mediums.

Meanwhile, Biden had 20 people show up in a high school gym, the press literally didnt notice when Biden walked in (watch the video, its hilarious) and Biden flubbed just about every scripted answer to every scripted question!

I half expected Biden to turn to his handlers and army of medical assistants and say "Line?".

Drago said...

Gunner: "I hope Bolton enjoys the piddly money from his crappy book while President Kamala's flunkies govern the country."

Bolton and Max Boot are going to be spending lots of quality time together.

exiledonmainstreet, green-eyed devil said...

bbkingfish said...
Has Scott Adams yet followed through on his threat to sue that guy who described him on twitter as "The Louis Farrakhan of incel white nationalists?"

Can you provide a link showing that Adams has promoted race hatred in the same way as Farrakhan has? It goes without saying Farrakhan is on record as saying many bigoted things, particularly about Jews.

Adams? What ethnic groups has he slurred?

Could it possibly be that that twitter quip bbkingfish and other empty heads giggle at is simply a shallow and baseless slur, which is not funny because it is not true?

I mean, you can draw comparisons between anybody and anybody else and it doesn't mean it's accurate. I can say that bbkingfish is the Jared Fogle of the Althouse blog and laugh about it but it's just kind of dumb because you don't actually sexually molest little kids. At least, I think you don't.

Bay Area Guy said...

Book Deal Bolton has shot his credibility wad. What a buffoon.

Ken B said...

How awful does it have to be for an anti Trump book to get the savage reviews Bolton's is getting?

DavidUW said...

they don't work for persuasion because people are stupid and don't recognize the rhyme, rather they look for the (carbon copy) repetition.

Clyde said...

When your only tool is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail. When your only tool is a gun, every horse looks like a terminal case. When your only strategy is a stick, those who come bearing carrots are looked on with disdain and disbelief.

narciso said...

it's worse than bannon's ego trip 'fire and fury'

narciso said...

btw that triangle symbol that was the pretext about banning an ad about the black block, not so much,

Drago said...

Howard: "Scott Adams is no Gary Larson"

Gary Larson estimated net worth: $70 Million
Scott Adams estimated net worth: $75 Million

Gary Larson Cartoon Syndication: Syndicated internationally to more than 1,900 newspapers for fifteen years
Scott Adams Cartoon syndication: 2,000 newspapers in 57 countries and 19 languages

Gary Larson: 23 books of collected cartoons have combined sales of more than forty-five million copies
Scott Adams: 37 Dilbert compilation books, 12 special compilations, 16 additional Dilbert books, 8 dilbert related business books, 6 non-Dilbert related publications

Any objective observer would likely come to the conclusion that Adams and Larson are easily comparable, which means Howard's observation is off the mark again.

Probably due to all that non-tear gas "tear gas" that was used in Lafayette Park by the Park Police....that really wasn't used.

The Cracker Emcee Refulgent said...

War in the Middle East. Check.
CIA. Check.
FBI. Check.
Neocons. Check.

This is why I don’t think the current Wokespasm really means anything and why I find talk of a civil war ridiculously overheated hyperbole. The Establishment doesn’t divide. It just uses a variety of means to bicker over the spoils.

Spiros said...

Bolton's advice? Use overwhelming force to kill dictators and destroy their governments. Don't worry about the power vacuums filled by extremist groups.

Martin said...

Wellllll, Adams' comment was funny when you see the cartoon. I don't know if it is exactly true, but I like to judge by results and I DO know that Trump's foreign policy has on the whole been no worse than Obama's, Bush-43's, or Clinton's. If I judge by the results I would give him a better grade than Obama or W and about the same grade as Clinton. Which is damning with faint praise, but, still. All three came in with preconceptions for which we have paid dearly; maybe it's better to have a President who is less informed and therefore less fixed in his thinking? Not ideal, but given a choice between Obama's insane Iran policy or W's obsessive fixation on Saddam Hussein, and where those led, versus Trump as tabula rasa, I would (sigh heavily, and) take Trump.

So, what is Bolton's point? That Trump doesn't do things teh way he would like? Or has just been lucky? Or, what? Because it is not the case that Trump's foreign policy has been a disaster--or any more of a disaster thna his three predecessors.

Inga said...

“It's over. Althouse is backing away. I feel worst for Drago.”

By this point the only ones loyal to Trump are the hard core true believers.

LA_Bob said...

For some reason, it bugs me no end that rcocean insists on spelling "Bolton" as "Bolten".

I hope that it bugs me makes rcocean happy.

Narr said...

History lesson. A few people know this but the rest should listen up.

Bolton, whatever else he is, is NOT a Neocon. He is and always has been a Con. "Neocon" was coined to describe former longterm and hardcore leftists who, by the 1980s, had come to see the error of their ways. Irving Kristol, and that ilk.

It's doubtful that Bolton even had any youthful flirtation with the Left; ergo he cannot be a "Neocon."

Unfortunately, the term is now thrown about like "racist" and "Marxist"--it may apply loosely, or not at all, but it sounds heavy.

Narr
Lived through it

Butkus51 said...

Inga is like that poker player. You know which one.

Sebastian said...

hstad: ""Sebastian" maybe your experience of omnipotence would be better, but I doubt it. It is a daunting task to replace so many thousands of appointments."

Not at all claiming omnipotence. Staffing is hard. But 1. Bolton was a known quantity, philosophically at odds with Trump; and 2. appointed to one of the top positions. Sure, all leaders make mistakes. But it was a mistake, Trump and his team should have known better, and that's on Trump.

Yes, Trump came in without a cadre of people ready to go, yes, there were a lot of snakes in DC -- but that was all the more reason to focus very, very hard on getting the right people in the top jobs, and then to make replacements at lower levels a high priority. Trump hasn't done that. You can't drain the swamp that way.

But I am pleased with some of the people he settled on -- Pompeo and Barr especially.

M Jordan said...

Jesus taught primarily by analogy. They are called parables. Seems to have some persuaded quite well. Ever hear of the Good Samaritan or the Prodigal son, Scott?

Narayanan said...

to sum up - it is unbelievable to Bolton that Trump would laugh in his face for his suggestions.

further more Bolton does not get it that when he complains about it people listening to him complaining are also laughing in his face.

Howard said...

Drago believes McDonald's is best restaurant in the known universe because they sell the most tons of prepared food every year. Brilliant

Michael K said...

nga said...
“It's over. Althouse is backing away. I feel worst for Drago.”

By this point the only ones loyal to Trump are the hard core true believers.


And, of course, the sane

Michael K said...

Drago, we haven't asked Howard his net worth. He may be a billionaire for all we know. On the internet no one knows you're a dog,

MadisonMan said...

By this point the only ones loyal to Trump are the hard core true believers
Wait 'til they tip over Lincoln on Bascom.

Howard said...

Drago is like Slim Pickens riding "Hi There" down to the target. Nuklar combat toe to toe with the Liberals.

CStanley said...

Ha, it looks like Adams misunderstood the Larson cartoon. It’s not about a dumb vet, it’s about how hopeless it can be to try to doctor horses. Or I guess it would be fair to say it’s about how dumb humans are in curing horse ailments.

But that seems to be where the analogy falls short. He’s comparing Bolton as an individual, having only one (destructive) tool in his toolbox, to humans in general lacking good tools for equine medicine.

Drago said...

Inga: "By this point the only ones loyal to Trump are the hard core true believers."

"True believers" definition: Did not accept transparently fake russia collusion charges and hoax dossiers and fictional Schiff-ty telephone "transcripts" and transparently idiotic gang rape charges against a Supreme Court nominee nor the clear and undeniable lie-filled propaganda from Beijing.

It takes a real mindless drone to buy into all of the above, wouldnt you say, Inga?

LOL

Drago said...

Howard: "Drago believes McDonald's is best restaurant in the known universe because they sell the most tons of prepared food every year. Brilliant"

When presented with a multidimensional comparative assessment of 2 successful humorists and their reach, Howard reverts to a bizarre McDonalds fast food comparison.

And that's that.

Drago said...

Howard: "Drago believes McDonald's is best restaurant in the known universe because they sell the most tons of prepared food every year. Brilliant"

Howard is still very angry at the Park Police fir not using tear gas to clear Lafayette Square which made Howard look as dumb as Inga.

A fate one doesn't wish upon anyone.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Ken B said...
How awful does it have to be for an anti Trump book to get the savage reviews Bolton's is getting?


I read the first chapter. It seemed to lie within the normal range for political books with respect to awfulness. Bolton is not a beloved figure in literary circles.

Drago said...

Howard: "Drago is like Slim Pickens riding "Hi There" down to the target. Nuklar combat toe to toe with the Liberals."

The "liberals" are too busy reporting on the whereabouts of Jewish mothers and children in blue cities.

Jack Klompus said...

"I would like a show of hands on who thinks this book is good for Trump. Seems to be a pretty big fraction but curious to know how big."

Has it dawned on you that nobody cares what you think about anything?

Drago said...

So to sum up: Howard appears to know alot about McDonalds and he thinks movies are like real life.

But dont call Howard dumb. He's smart. Not dumb like those people say. Smart, and he wants respect!

stephen cooper said...

Howard, leave us alone --- you are not truthful, and you have hatred in your heart.

Drago said...

I am still waiting for Howard to clue us in on which Confederate military unit Gandhi and US Grant served in.

Remember, Howard was quite explicit that only racist confederates were being targeted........

Drago said...

I shouldn't give Howard too difficult a time. He has enough problems dealing with reality.

We have our very own Inga-like sunsong claiming the Germans are better than than us because they didnt leave up statues to nazis........but then she fell silent when the following were mentioned: Washington, Jefferson, US Grant, Gandhi, Lincoln, Father Junipero Serra, etc.

Its almost as if she were just an automaton mouthing pre-programmed inanities.

Drago said...

Jack (to ARM): "Has it dawned on you that nobody cares what you think about anything?"

One doesnt have to read ARM to know what he thinks. You only have to read China Daily or watch CCTV-9 to know what ARM "thinks".

exiledonmainstreet, green-eyed devil said...

Inga is awfully confident in the polls.

Just like she was in 2016.

Francisco D said...

I smell troll flop sweat.

It smells like ...

...victory!

Drago said...

Musician Stevie Ray Vaughan Statue vandalized in Austin TX.

I guess Stevie Ray was the unit singer for the Stonewall Jackson Brigade.

Lefty "History" sure does change fast....

Lucien said...

So it looks like President Trump spent too much time watching the Gorilla Chanel, and not enough boning up on the genesis of the partition of the Korean Peninsula in1945. I knew something like that would turn out to be the explanation.

Jason said...

GARY TRUDEAU HARDEST HIT!

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

ack Klompus said...
Has it dawned on you that nobody cares what you think about anything?


You are apparently a nobody, since you care or you would not have written your post.