This is a lone, seated figure that has presided over Bascom Mall for decades and is inscribed on the hearts of those who have spent time — as I did for more than 30 years — at Wisconsin's beautiful university. I've taken many photographs of the statue, but I'll give you Lincoln in winter:
The Channel 3000 article quotes Nalah McWhorter, the president of the Wisconsin Black Student Union:
“He was also very publicly anti-Black. Just because he was anti-slavery doesn’t mean he was pro-Black. He said a lot in his presidential campaigns. His fourth presidential campaign speech, he said that he believes there should be an inferior and superior, and he believes white people should be the superior race.”UW-Madison Chancellor Rebecca Blank responded, saying that "Lincoln’s legacy is complex and contains actions which, 150 years later, appear flawed," but that "Lincoln is widely acknowledged as one of our greatest presidents," because he issued the "Emancipation Proclamation, persuaded Congress to adopt the 13th Amendment ending slavery and preserved the Union during the Civil War."
McWhorter rejects that response: "For them to want to protect a breathless, lifeless statue more than they care about the experiences of their black students that have been crying out for help for the past 50, 60 years, it’s just a horrible feeling as a student, as a black and brown student on campus."
Who can balance the caring for the statue against the caring for students? These things — assuming we could assign weights to them — are not on opposite sides of a balance. We can leave the statue where it is — do nothing about it — and concentrate our efforts on helping students as much as possible. Why put these things in conflict, as if to leave the statue alone is to express callous disregard for students? Because demands need to be made — made about tangible objects that can be acted upon?
It's so much harder to figure out how to really help students. But giving in to a demand like this will not help. It will only set the stage for the creation of another demand to do something that can be done right now. Acquiring a real education cannot happen instantaneously, nor is it something that occurs in a theatrical way before the eyes of an assembled crowd. It's complex and subtle and never truly accomplished. But if the university doesn't dedicate itself to real education, what does any of this matter?
346 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 346 of 346If the Emancipation Proclamation means nothing then there is no, uniquely horrible, African-American experience to atone for.
The mistake was not making June 19th a national holiday in 1865. It certainly merited it as a commemoration of Union sacrifice and the eradication of slavery from our great republic. People would sing The Battle Hymn of the Republic, fly the regimental battle flags of their ancestors alongside Old Glory, and grow commemorative side whiskers for the day. Not sure what they'd do in the South.
Lots of comments. I guess this is what protestors mean when they say they want whites to be uncomfortable for a change.
Snopes did a nice job on the very passage McWhorter highlights. It is from 1858, two years before the presidential campaign; Lincoln was running for an Illinois senate seat. The speech is indeed "the fourth" in the Lincoln-Douglas debates.
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/did-lincoln-racism-equality-oppose/
At least until late in his presidency, if he was asked what the prospects were for black people, Lincoln probably would have been quite gloomy. He may never have conversed with a bright, ambitious black person until he met Frederick Douglass. He took significant steps to create opportunities for free blacks throughout the country; although admittedly, his open immigration views were partly intended to get cheap labour from Europe into western territories, by-passing the usual attempts by states to prevent blacks and orientals from getting jobs. He was an ambitious person, ambitious for his country as well as himself, remarkably free from racism for his time.
"I really did not think the monument-topplers would go after the cemetery."
- AA 2017
"I'm reading the news report at Channel 3000 with near disbelief."
- AA 2020
Professor: I posted on the Sussex, WI community FB page that we should take the statue and put in front of our beautiful city hall. Overwhelming response. Members of the community with pick up trucks and trailers are willing to come to Madison and pick it up for free.
so, Now the REQUIREMENT IS:
You MUST BE PRO BLACK, or your statue comes down?
One of the most dangerous and execrable facets of critical theory is that historical figures must live up to the moral standards of today. Everybody from Og the Caveman forward should have had the fine social justice sensibilities of a Columbia undergraduate. Would it have been nice for Lincoln to allow transgenders to serve in the Grand Army of the Republic? Maybe. It also would have been unthinkable. It was just not a reality that existed at the time. Prevalent attitudes on race dictated what Lincoln said and thought about blacks. It was what he said and did despite his own prejudices that must be remembered. This is how progress is made. Today's screeching moralists should beware. Their acts will one day be examined with the 20/20 vision of hindsight.
Here's another reason to hate The Great Emancipator. Lincoln made it a war crime to target cultural sites such as universities or libraries. The Lieber Code of April 24, 1863 was a set of instructions, concerning the behavior of soldiers during the Civil War. The Code forecast the protection of cultural heritage. The sort of destruction of art and objects of cultural heritage that we are seeing right now would have gotten you court-martialed.
Pro-black what? Pro-murderer, pro-fatherless children, pro-abortion, pro-welfare, pro-violent rap, pro-gangbangers, pro-racebaiters, pro-violent criminal’s, pro-drug dealers, pro-Democrat voting bloc, pro-looters, pro-Maxine, pro-Marxist BLM, etc.? Sorry. The “gimme” tribe? I can’t get with that.
OTOH, I was pro-MLK. I am pro-Condoleeza, Ben, Candace, Larry, J.C., Clarence, Janice R.B., Tony, Thomas, Starr, Walter, Alveda, among others. Our tribe is called American.
Yes, all this white-talk and white-think is like speaking Greek to the present culture.
People don't even know what is actually before them. Critical race theory explains it.
I've been thinking about the reparations idea floated by BET founder Robert Johnson. Maybe he's got a good point and the government should officially pay out cash and we would be "officially" done with the guilt, even though it makes no sense on a personal level. Would there be any more welfare or government programs for blacks after that? IDK
No, it would be more foolishness of the sort created by Lyndon Johnson and his Great Society. You might consider reading Amity Schlaes' book on it.
Blogger Michael K said...
"Want to know why they weren't studying like the white kids? Who would fail a black kid in 'African American Studies?'"
Maybe it's because the courses are entitled "The History of Written Language in Sub-Saharan Africa" or "The Use of the Wheel in Sub-Saharan Africa".
Well that's the trap you walk into when you play their race game. All the American hating left has to do, is call something "RACIST" and claim "its offending people of color" and anti-racists MUST give in. They've weaponized blacks against the USA and the liberal bourgeois can't - and won't - fight back. All they can do is call for "discussion". LOL -as if the people making the claims are sincerely offended or sincerely misinformed.
Biden was given a chance to attack the People destroying monuments to Grant, Lincoln, Washington, and Jefferson. And what did "Moderate Joe" do? He refused to say anything. Name ONE DC Democrat who seems truly upset at all the attempts to erase Grant, Lincoln, and the Founding fathers? They don't care. Even the Senate R's are in hiding. Only Trump and a few Right wingers like Cruz have been out there defending America's heritage.
The Left understand what this is all about and where it will lead. The Center-Right on the other hand, has no clue. Most of these right-wingers are fixated on $$$, and can't really understand what this represents or the political ideas behind it. So they diminish the whole thing, by calling the left-wing thugs "Snowflakes" or "Spoiled Kids". This is NOT about temper tantrums. This is NOT about the adults hand-waving and saying "ha, ha. those crazy kids. Wait till they grow up, they'll be ashamed".
We learn what they Actually want. And it’s is not equal. It is black supremacy
which seems ODD, since it looks like the overwhelming majority of 'protesters' are white girls
But, actually, it makes PERFECT SENSE, because
All hatred is, at its core, self-hatred
and Where, does that put Nalah McWhorter?
My guess is she HATES the facts that:
A) she has a Scottish name
B) she's SO FUCKING STUPID, that THE ONLY WAY she could go to school is Affirmative Action
C) now that she's IN school; she's SO FUCKING STUPID, that THE ONLY WAY she can make a name for herself, is through "protesting"
D) and FINALLY, she HATES the fact, that SHE has given some bozo the excuse to use a lot of CAPS
One advantage the Left will have in a civil war with any governmental power- they won't hesitate for a millisecond in ordering the police and national guard to start shooting their political enemies when push comes to shove.
Seriously, can any of you imagine that the result would have been the same in Minneapolis if it really had been Boogaloo Bois doing the rioting and the looting? I don't- Frey himself would have ordered harsh measures to put it down if the rioters and looters had conservatives. If you don't understand that, then you are a fool.
Blogger MikeR said...""with near disbelief" Really? Really? Where have you been?"
That's a fair question.
This is where Critical Race Theory lead.
Why ARE we 'celebrating' Juneteenth?
Shouldn't we, as right thinking people; TEAR DOWN ALL MENTION of Juneteenth?
When you say Juneteenth, people IMMEDIATELY think of Slavery; and that causes people to be Scared!
If we put Nalah McWhorter's biased opinion up for a vote, she looses. And no matter what else she believes, damaging public property is against the law - and that is what she advocates.
The real question to be addressed is: "What was the most significant action by the our government to end slavery?"
The answer is "fight the civil war" that ended in 620,000 deaths in battle or by disease. Another 476,000 were wounded with some 50,000 required surgeries ending in loss of limbs. 400,000 more soldiers were listed as "missing in action" which likely means "dead."
Perhaps Ms. McWhorter should instead thank white Americans for their great sacrifice and understand that Lincoln's presidential leadership was the only way that centuries of slave ownership was finally dispelled in the U.S.A.
It seems unfair to criticize dead people for their past comments about race when they have not had a chance to "evolve". People like Barack Obama and Joe Biden have the opportunity to "evolve" their views by 1) staying alive, and 2) knowing which way the wind blows. Survivorship bias!
If I had an ankle available to break off in all these savages' asses....I would have an INFINITE number of broken ankles.
I sure hope this McWhorter cretin isn't related to Columbia prof John McWhorter, who engages in much more dispassionate discussions on race.
If she is, he must be truly ashamed.
"McWhorter considers that anti-racism has become as harmful a force in the United States as racism itself.[22][23] According to him, what is holding blacks back is "black attitudes" rather than white racism.[24]" --wikipedia
In that respect he's in complete agreement with Shelby Steele, who has argued that "slavery" isn't the problem for American blacks. It's their inability to deal with freedom.
The University better get some cops out there to protect the statue. But I bet they won't.
Say goodbye to Abe.
Didn’t your distant ancestor write a sermon called “Sinners in the Hands of an Angry Mob”?
A short history of modern academe by a former professor.
https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2020/06/why_are_university_students_so_stupidityfriendly.html
Howard of Howard's Heroes: "Lots of talk about a shooting civil war from you people ever since Trump was elected. Even more talk now that the BLM and the Libtards have taken to the streets protesting violence against people by destroying icons. The left is doing what you people have bragged about for years but never did anything about it.
Bring it on. The more you people threaten violence against political opponents, the less likely you are to actually do something. The consensus is that Trump and his cult are cowards. You might not be a coward, but your comrades are. If it does get hot, you are more likely to catch a bullet in the skull from one of your panicking bro's in the Barney Fife obesity militia."
Note 1: Howard literally cried like a little girl when a helicopter flew over protesters in DC and mussed up their hair which was after Howard claimed the feds had used Chemical Warfare against the protesting darlings in Lafayette Square by using pepper spray.
Note 2: Howard's Heroes only riot and loot and pillage and attack innocents where the dems/marxists have complete control of the city government, DA's office and Police Chiefs and the little marxists know they have carte blanche to do just about anything they want without fear of reprisal.
Including attacking women with children in cars....(I have to believe that's one of Howard's favorite "revolutionary" activities)
“Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.”
The Lincoln statue problem is imaginary, all unpleasant narrative-conflicting. You might as well argue about what book is best. You can do it, I suppose, by teaching literary appreciation, which is in this case being resisted as part of each position.
Touching base with reality, you can unstick a Windows 10 update that won't proceed no matter how many times you try, my removing everying in the folder C:/Windows/SoftwareDistribution (in safe mode). It apparently creates it all again but that cleans up whatever impossible data condition has established itself there.
I just discovered that, and it saved a laptop. You can't get more real than that.
So the new threshold of tolerance is now: "pro-Black".
Rosalyn C. said...
I've been thinking about the reparations idea floated by BET founder Robert Johnson. Maybe he's got a good point and the government should officially pay out cash and we would be "officially" done with the guilt,
Why would anyone believe any payment would end the guilt? Any payment breaks the principle that the people paying aren't responsible and thus don't owe anything. Without that principle future demands are harder to argue against thus making additional payments more likely, not less.
What will not help the students? Closing the schools for the fall. Continuing to pretend that teachers unions don't protect bad teachers just like police unions protect bad cops. And once more, closing the schools for the fall.
@Howard
My comrades are not cowards. Making 'you' pay doesn't necessarily mean 'bullets & bloodshed'....how stupid do you think we are...to play into the narrative.
You're going to lose Howard. You picked the wrong side.
"It's so much harder to figure out how to really help students. But giving in to a demand like this will not help. It will only set the stage for the creation of another demand to do something that can be done right now."
One could say the exact same thing about symbols of the Confederacy.
... and why should anyone be required to be “pro-black”? Are any of these people “pro-white”? “Pro-Asian”? “Pro-Jew”?
I thought we couldn’t/shouldn’t be “anti-black” and my faith tells me we should be “pro-human” but this racial identity stuff is just Old Testament/tribal. I thought we’d evolved beyond that....
So, Lincoln wasn't Pro-Choice, selective, opportunistic, politically congruent (e.g. Black, Brown, White), he was Pro-Life and that is offensive to liberal sensibilities. #BabyLivesMatter
You want to help them? Make them accountable for their actions.
Unprecedented reparations in blood and treasure, their Posterity that has stood against redistributive and retributive change, and stood against progressive diversity and other classes of forward-looking bigotry. #BLM
"For them to want to protect a breathless, lifeless statue more than they care about the experiences of their black students that have been crying out for help for the past 50, 60 years, it’s just a horrible feeling as a student, as a black and brown student on campus."
What experiences did Lincoln (or his statue) play into? Other than black students being free, of course.
Engaging the "protesters" on an intellectual level will most certainly yield results. After all, they are educated.
They are from the Progressive Church with a Pro-Choice religion and liberal ideology - different faith, different gods, different moral philosophy, and a divergent (e.g. generational) ideology that embraces diversity (i.e. color judgments).
This is about destroying America's history so it can be completely rewritten... He who controls the past, controls the future...
No explanation will satisfy a fool.
The problem is when the generally acknowledged definition of a fool is no longer understood and fools are considered wise in many people eyes.
"These people are still thinking like slaves, and the worst kind: self-enslaved."
The minority leaders their new masters, the "protestors" their new KKK to keep them in line, and "protestors" the bullies a la Progressive South Africa to lynch people who disagree with the consensus.
Watch out you might get what you're after
Boom babies strange but not a stranger
...
..
.
No visible means of support
and you have not seen nothin' yet
Everything's stuck together
And I don't know what you expect
starring into the TV set.
Talking Heads-Burning Down the House
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3eC35LoF4U
Bring it on. The more you people threaten violence against political opponents, the less likely you are to actually do something. The consensus is that Trump and his cult are cowards. You might not be a coward, but your comrades are. If it does get hot, you are more likely to catch a bullet in the skull from one of your panicking bro's in the Barney Fife obesity militia.
You should anticipate that your impotent ranting will not elevate your testosterone level. Sadly, you will remain low-T for the foreseeable future...
This isn't a black problem, it is an aspect of your caste war. No black student would be making these "demands" if they were not pre-vetted by your controlling clique of white administrators, faculty, and the future employers of these kids.
Your history matters only to your white middle class. For the rest of your population it might as well be the year zero.
Wait until the wokies figure out that virtually all of the black heroes throughout history (hell, most of the "heroes" of "progressivism") held insufficiently woke views on such matters as the roles and "equality" of the sexes, gay rights, transgenderism...I could go on. Many of them actually ascribed to the beliefs and practices of organized Christian religion! Remember not so very long ago that even St. Obama publicly opposed gay marriage. The statue removal business is looking up!
Acquiring a real education cannot happen instantaneously, nor is it something that occurs in a theatrical way before the eyes of an assembled crowd. It's complex and subtle and never truly accomplished.
This is beautiful. I know others have already commented along the same lines, but one can never give too many sincere compliments.
Remove the statue? No. Use this as an opportunity to introduce the students to real education: Your feelings aren't the most important thing in the world. They shouldn't even be the most important thing to you. Grow up!
I suspect that there are plenty of HBCUs where McWhorter would feel more comfortable, without any of those pesky statues of wypipo.
You are much nicer than I am, Ann. I would tell the students to hit the road.
To be clear, because this demand is really part of, a manifestation of, the culture-war policy of your elite, Lincoln is toast.
And you will not fix this without defeating and replacing that elite. This is a caste war, all the small things that come up in the course of it are the small incidents and conflicts usual in all huge struggles.
"Near disbelief"? I hereby incorporate by reference my previous remarks about your naivete.
is "Nobody's perfect" too esoteric for these Wokesters ?
do they realize their own paragons of Wokeness are also to be found as imperfect one day?
If thou, LORD, shouldest mark iniquities, O Lord, who shall stand? 4But there is forgiveness with thee, that thou mayest be feared. --Ps. 130:3
No life or contribution could be celebrated if perfection is demanded.
Should the art of Cellini be disregarded because he was a murderer?
Should the FBI's alleged records of MLK's sexual romps prove true,
would his words be then untrue ?
Do we not look at the life on balance for citations of merit?
To put it in scale, this matter of statues is akin to some tiny part of a WWII propaganda campaign, say the dropping of leaflets by air, a very minor activity in context. And any given statue is one aircraft sortie on such a mission.
One should not obsess over one leaflet-drop mission by your enemies.
Everything will be fixed when you decisively, permanently defeat your enemies.
Those pesky libertarians, with their National Security Garrison State mentality--always looking under the bed and behind the bushes for Commies or Russians; always wanting to invade countries that don't matter to rational people for the benefit of those who hate us already, ensuring that they'll hate us more.
Those pesky libertarians, with their Affirmative Action Welfare State mentality--always rewarding criminality and excusing fecklessness; raking in tax money from people they despise.
Those pesky libertarians with their violent mentality--always toppling statues and shitting on Western Culture.
Those libertarians?
Narr
Personally I've never met such chimeras, and I've been hanging with libertarians for decades
Why is it so difficult to simply respond with "We are NOT going to remove this statue, period."
We should ask noted statuary expert Freeman Hill what to do next.
We are seeing, once again, the effects of appeasement. At the moment it is nowhere near the final insult of Chamberlain re Czechoslovakia, but we are headed that way. A body of people have decided to test the limits of their power and so far have not been adequately opposed. As a result they have, in effect, taken over the Ruhr, are looking for a way to achieve an Anschluss in selected states and will only be fulfilled when they have reduced all opposition and they have acquired their desired Lebensraum. As long as no one is willing to oppose them they will just continue to increase their demands and commit more and greater outrages. Appeasement, never, never subdues the beast.
Asking for a friend, WTF is "pro-black"?
In other words, we are fucked. The people who have the power to push back against this, in fact don't and won't.
Put not your trust in man, Pants, they will always disappoint.
Put your trust and hope only in what is Eternal.
By the way, I miss the open discussion that allows for "what's for dinner" updates.
Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.
Yeats, a prophet for our times. God help us.
The problem here is that these students expect “someone to do something “ for them. Life doesn’t work that way. If they are schtruggling they need to work harder or figure out what’s not working for them and make a change. I have news for them, white males schtruggle through college too. It’s a time when you have to quit being a child that has things done for you and learn to do for yourself.
The "Big Read" for incoming students should be Frederick Douglass' address in 1876.
Anybody remember that guy saying - for months on end - that the Leftist Collectivists want to turn us all into Green Grocers because their only true aim is Power?
I wonder where that guy went.
He sure seems to be correct at every turn.
I'm for black nationalism for those that want it - just not this nation. There are black nations in the world.
First, the collective left were FOR Antifa.
(corporate media/+ democrat party elites)
Now the collective left deny the very existence of Antifa.
"Who can balance the caring for the statue against the caring for students?"
That is called a false dichotomy.
Furthermore, STEM doesn't care who you are, and the humanities are about studying the accumulated knowledge of mankind. You want to know how great black writers think? Read Frederick Douglass. Read James Baldwin. Some third-rate, sociological, crypto-Marxist analysis of The Great Gatsby isn't worth much either in the marketplace or in an individual's darkest hour.
The universities are playing with fire by indulging this nonsense.
I can't wait to hear the comeback from the White Student Union president.
Oh how heads would explode if Robert Woodson spoke in Madtown.
If I were the white supremacist that some on the left would call me for daring not to fall in line with them, I would want black students to be as fragile as possible. And I would want them to believe that the whites who did the most to give them a fair shake (Lincoln, Grant) count for nothing because they weren’t perfect. I would teach them that the system is so stacked against them, there’s no point in trying to succeed within it.
I know what to do with that racist bastard Lincoln. Let's shoot him in the head.
When the revolution comes, people with the earnestness of McWhorter will be the first to speak out against their betrayal by a movement that was only interested in creating a power vacuum in which to seize power. They will also be the first to be destroyed.
Bushwa Overload
Set the Civil War aside: I always thought the reason Lincoln is on Bascom Hill is that he signed into law statutes that created land grant universities including UW.
In 2017 at the time of Charlottesville, Trump said that they will eventually come for statues of Washington and Jefferson. They, at least, were slaveholders.
Even Trump, seeking to fire up his base, couldn't conceive of them going after Linoln by 2020.
The proper response to Nalah McWhorter is to invite him or her to go to another school, maybe one without a Lincoln statue. Ole Miss, perhaps?
News flash: this has nothing to do with Lincoln and his race history. This has everything to do with a group of self righteous power drunk creeps who take another mile for every inch they're given.
I've been thinking about the reparations idea floated by BET founder Robert Johnson. Maybe he's got a good point and the government should officially pay out cash and we would be "officially" done with the guilt, even though it makes no sense on a personal level. Would there be any more welfare or government programs for blacks after that? IDK
Reparations would never make you "done" with guilt. It would only encourage the grifters and the moochers and the activists to keep pushing for more.
Emancipating the slaves wasn't good enough? He had to love black people too? Back in those days even the Irish were deemed primitive and defective. These activists can't admit that we have made progress. As to the statue in DC looming over a black man "as if he's some big shot Emancipator" that is a nutso comment. He was a big shot emancipator and the statue is about him. The smaller black person gives it context. Please tell me something you antifa people have done that is comparable.
This from Fredrick Douglas on April 14, 1876" Taking him for all in all, measuring the tremendous magnitude of the work before him, considering the necessary means to ends, and surveying the end from the beginning, infinite wisdom has seldom sent any man into the world better fitted for his mission than Abraham Lincoln. To remove the statue of Lincoln is very miss guided I believe, and to suggest all black students suffer from treatment at the university is not accurate; I say this as a faculty member who has worked with and helped many students of color over the years and seen them succeed in their careers.
As to black students "crying out for 50, 60 yrs"--I seriously doubt if any one of them noticed this statue until tearing down statues was the hot ticket, let alone having their education derailed.
Anti-slavery but not necessarily pro-black = describes most of the population.
As Moe Szylak put it, "I'm more of a well-wisher. Meaning that I don't wish you any specific harm."
Your love doesn't outrule their (alleged) pain, Professor.
Sorry. You nice centrist people helped make the ranking of victimhood (and the associated primacy of concern about victims' pain/trauma/distress) the only relevant factor, and since she outranks you we have to care about her emotional response and discount yours.
You should, in fact be careful: by even raising the issue of your own feelings you can be accused of ignoring or denigrating the feelings of those who matter more than you do, and that itself is an act of racism.
Please don't be racist, Professor--tear that statue down.
Your love doesn't outrule their (alleged) pain, Professor.
Sorry. You nice centrist people helped make the ranking of victimhood (and the associated primacy of concern about victims' pain/trauma/distress) the only relevant factor, and since she outranks you we have to care about her emotional response and discount yours.
You should, in fact be careful: by even raising the issue of your own feelings you can be accused of ignoring or denigrating the feelings of those who matter more than you do, and that itself is an act of racism.
Please don't be racist, Professor--tear that statue down.
The progs have revived the idea of original sin, but only white people have it. That blacks and chinese and arabs all had slaves is simply ignored. This original sin can never be erased and in fact has become a blood libel--you today are guilty for what other white people in the past did. Don't like it? That is what they believe.
News flash: this has nothing to do with Lincoln and his race history. This has everything to do with a group of self righteous power drunk creeps who take another mile for every inch they're given.
Jeff Brokaw said...
Spot on Ann. This bullshit will never, ever end.
-------=========
that is how to achieve job security and graduate studiesresearchfunding dontcha know
The anti-Lincoln petition also calls for removing "Chamberlain Rock" because it used to have a very offensive name. “Renaming it doesn’t remove the history of oppression that it symbolizes and perpetuates,” McWhorter said.
Removing a rock also does not remove the history of oppression. Perhaps a university should seek to understand history rather than attempting to erase it.
Earth to Althouse blog:
Are you OK? It's fine for you to disconnect for a while, but I miss your place.
re: 12 PM to 5:30 PM.
RosalynC: no freaking way are we paying reparations!
Once started it will never end.
It will be too hard to prove who the money and for how many generations they will want to be paid.
This is a classic situation of a slippery slope.
Lincoln was a product of his time and lived a life leading him to righteousness despite of his immersion in a culture that was not as moral as today. He had breakthroughs that no one before him had that led to much good for blacks. He was a flawed vessel ho gave up his life of crime and was trying to get his life in order, but he was killed by a racist before he could complete his purgatory. He deserves no statue, only vile venomous rebuke.
Somebody is seriously confused.
Everybody!:
Feelings!
Nothing more than Feelings!
No one else's feelings (small f)
Matter as much as theirs,
Feelings! Woah Woah Woah Feelings!
Woah Woah Woah Feelings!
We can't help you enough!
Teardrops
No, Scratch that.
ANGER!
Only their anger matters
Get down on your knees
Submission!
Only submission!
You worthless Privileged One
You Matter no more!
If you think you can placate, there are public libraries full of history books - Pretty much EVERY history book ever published frankly - that will show you it has never worked.
And it never will.
Brace yourself.
Of Statues and Symbolic Murder by Wilfrid McClay
McClay is the U of OK history professor who has written a highly-acclaimed new high school American history textbook, Land of Hope. I wonder how it is doing vs the 1619 Project?
These people aren't rational. Accept that.
Perhaps Ms. McWhorter should instead thank white Americans for their great sacrifice and understand that Lincoln's presidential leadership was the only way that centuries of slave ownership was finally dispelled in the U.S.A.
gadfly finally said something I agree with. I also agree with buwaya that this is a war between the white "upper caste" and the normals. Blacks are foot soldiers and cannon fodder. A lot of these black kids are victims of Mismatch. They might be able to get a useful education at the appropriate level but they have been placed by Affirmative Action at the Peter Principle level.
I see African blacks with college education sin Mechanical Engineering who laugh at these kids with their "Studies" degrees.
Obama voters were played. It was easy too! Classic moves, and Ayers was "just a guy down the street". They're SO much smarter.
Blogger exhelodrvr1 said..."You want to help them? Make them accountable for their actions."
Yep.
For all the black men who have given up their lives of crime and moved to new cities to get their lives in order but are then killed by racist police, there is redemption and respect for them after death.
Lincoln was a product of his time and lived a life leading him to righteousness despite of his immersion in a culture that was not as moral as today. He had breakthroughs that no one before him had that led to much good for blacks. He was a flawed vessel ho gave up his life of crime and was trying to get his life in order, but he was killed by a racist before he could complete his purgatory. He deserves no statue, only vile venomous rebuke.
Heck of a job, r/v.
This McWhorter fellow sounds like he's 13
Don't focus on him, focus on the faculty and administrators who took advantage of his ignorance to teach him what he now repeats.
Then focus on the liberals who cheered this on because it produced Dem voters.
Wasn't President Lincoln the way back John Lennon through scriptures. I think he tried to abolish slavery because the hand maiden looked good in jeans. But Levis were not invented until 1949 gold rush slavery. Go figure...
Re: reparations
I have a good plan. Find out what stuff black people like these days: what booze, what cars, what rims, etc., and buy the stock. That's my plan.
Wrote to alumni association UW. Explained they've sent me continuous requests for more money for 50 years. Said I would never ever ever donate again if a bronze hair on Lincoln's head was touched. Would contact all of my UW friends and counsel them never to donate again. Would counsel any top hs student to consider another school. Money still talks.
May I introduce you to Capt.Ajit Vadakayil, in today's post he linked to an older one that i haven't read, his rabbit hole is deep and controversial.
I love him, funny, brilliant, NON orhodox! !! !!! !!!!!
http://ajitvadakayil.blogspot.com/2013/05/peer-pressure-jumping-into-bandwagon.html
"Below is what US president Abraham Lincoln wrote to his son's teacher.
He will have to learn, I know,
That all men are not just, all men are not true.
But teach him also that for every scoundrel there is a hero
That for every selfish politician there is a dedicated leader
Teach him for every enemy there is a friend
It will take time, I know....."
Until someone tells these agitators to fuck off, and really means it & follows through on it, this crap will continue.
As an aside: I love that photo. It is so expressive. Possibly even metaphorical: black, white, and gray; all the colors.
Reparations would never make you "done" with guilt. It would only encourage the grifters and the moochers and the activists to keep pushing for more.
The very next day we'd be hearing: "How dare you think you can buy your way out of responsibility? My suffering doesn't have a price tag on it.".
If I were the white supremacist that some on the left would call me for daring not to fall in line with them, I would want:
Blacks forced to live in crime ridden communities filled with violence and addiction, dependent upon the government for a handout to survive.
The destruction of the Black family, and all of the pathology that entails.
Blacks to attend failing schools. even better if I can get Black people to run them themselves.
Black women aborting more babies than having children.
Black kids bullying successful Black kids and telling them that they were "acting White".
Thug culture dominating Black culture.
Removal of anything that reminded the people of today about the failures of White supremacy in the past.
Black kids being sent to schools where they will fail and get saddled with mountains of debt.
Constant images on nightly TV of Black mobs behaving violently.
People keep overthinking the response to this behavior. It's really pretty simple. No! Stop trying to meet their demands, the more you do the more they will increase the press for more. This is a no win situation, they will behave badly win or lose. Suck it up and stop their bullshit now even if it means deadly force. If local, state and Federal authorities can't or wont, there are plenty of others who will.
...as a black and brown student on campus.
Why does McWhorter feel entitled to speak for brown students? Is she mixed race (Nalah is a Polynesian name?)? Who are brown students?
Hispanics? South Asians? Why would they be offended by a statue of Lincoln?
Any statues of Martin Luther King, Jr., in Madison? Because after Lincoln goes he’s next. No room in the 21st century United States for someone who did not want people to be judged by the color of their skin.
(Althouse probably doesn’t believe me, but it’s coming.)
No one is listening to you people. That must be frustrating.
For all the black men who have given up their lives of crime and moved to new cities to get their lives in order but are then killed by racist police, there is redemption and respect for them after death.
Lincoln was a product of his time and lived a life leading him to righteousness despite of his immersion in a culture that was not as moral as today. He had breakthroughs that no one before him had that led to much good for blacks. He was a flawed vessel ho gave up his life of crime and was trying to get his life in order, but he was killed by a racist before he could complete his purgatory. He deserves no statue, only vile venomous rebuke.
You know when you have done sarcasm well when others believe it is truth.
"I've been thinking about the reparations idea floated by BET founder Robert Johnson. Maybe he's got a good point and the government should officially pay out cash and we would be "officially" done with the guilt..."
We? Do you have a mouse in your pocket? I know I don't have any guilt over any of this. As far as reparations go, what do you call "Affirmative Action", anyway?
Rhetorical question: If, as you say- "many young black people actually believe they are superior to white people", this is true, why aren't they using their superiority to advance themselves rather than making demands of their lessers?
Oh I give up, with the delays in moderation and blogger and google login problems I can’t get my ideas across anymore,
roesch/voltaire
You grabbed this particular tiger by the tail.
And when the mob comes for you, I am rooting for the mob.
Just FYI.
Althouse was probably at the range.
This child is too arrogant to learn anything.
Engaging a fool makes a fool of you - McWhorter needs to be told to grow up.
Both R/V and gadfly have posted in opposition to this idiocy--and made sense. Without any "But Trump!" nonsense.
I believe that the shark has been jumped.
Also to you gentlemen--every journey begins with the first step. Godspeed!
https://www.city-journal.org/pushing-back-cancel-culture
Rick said...
Rosalyn C. said...
I've been thinking about the reparations idea floated by BET founder Robert Johnson. Maybe he's got a good point and the government should officially pay out cash and we would be "officially" done with the guilt,
Why would anyone believe any payment would end the guilt? Any payment breaks the principle that the people paying aren't responsible and thus don't owe anything. Without that principle future demands are harder to argue against thus making additional payments more likely, not less.
***************
Just think back to all the Liar Loans that got (ahem) "minorities" mortgages they couldn't afford.
Yeah, they got the house---and then trashed it over the next few years as they defaulted on those mortgages.
Money won't solve "minority" poverty.
Changing THEIR behavior might.
Unknown said...
The progs have revived the idea of original sin, but only white people have it. That blacks and chinese and arabs all had slaves is simply ignored. This original sin can never be erased and in fact has become a blood libel--you today are guilty for what other white people in the past did. Don't like it? That is what they believe.
**************
The Constitution refers to "Corruption of the Blood". Pretty damned similar.
Really, this seems like a simple problem to solve.
Just set up a new UW branch campus someplace nice and diverse so that the students feel safe. Open admissions, because tests are biased. No tuition or fees, naturally. Establish a Pass/Pass grading scale, to keep anxiety levels down. No GenEd requirements, obviously. Move all the Woke Studies programs from Madison to the new campus. Let the students decide what statues they'd like to have there.
Then sit back and watch the corporate recruiters line up outside the placement office.
Althouse's "Lincoln in Winter" photograph reflects what old Abe might really have felt during the winter of 1862-1863. He was in big trouble. The war was not going well for the Union, neither in the West nor especially in the East. The Emancipation Proclamation had not gone over well. The Republicans lost the 1862 midterms.
It had to be pretty lonely to be "Lincoln in Winter" months before the twin victories of Gettysburg and Vicksburg on July 4, 1863.
My family and I are going on vacation to Mount Rushmore next month. Very exciting, but I wonder how long it has left?
My belief is that if Biden (or his replacement) wins, there's a greater than 50% chance Mount Rushmore is gone before 2024.
>>so, Now the REQUIREMENT IS:
You MUST BE PRO BLACK, or your statue comes down?
gilbar,
That's today's requirement. Tomorrow there will be an even more outrageous one.
There is no bottom here.
gadfly said...
If we put Nalah McWhorter's biased opinion up for a vote, she looses. And no matter what else she believes, damaging public property is against the law - and that is what she advocates
No no no. You oppose President Trump with every fiber of your soul. He is leading the resistance to this. You have placed yourself at the side of, in the service of, Naiah McWhorter and all her brain-kin.
Narr said...
Those pesky libertarians, with their National Security Garrison State mentality--always looking under the bed and behind the bushes for Commies or Russians
Seriously, if we had followed through on purging commies instead of being convinced that it was somehow wrong, we wouldn't be here now.
YOU LOSE!
GOOD DAY SIR!!
I SAID GOOD DAY!!!
PubliusFlavius said...
May I introduce you to Capt.Ajit Vadakayil, in today's post he linked to an older one that i haven't read, his rabbit hole is deep and controversial.
Uhuh, then I scrolled to his next post on "The Wave" and lost all interest. You can have him.
>>If you want this to end, Biden. If Don, you get Round 2, 3, 4, etc, etc, etc. Can't be more obvious.
The destructive mobs and looting will stop when we elect a 77 year old white guy?
I expect Biden to be the next president, riding a wave of massive fraud into the White House.
The mobs will be emboldened, not satisfied.
This does not end until somebody makes it end. The Dems will try to buy their way out of it with a massive reparations program, and that will only feed the fire. Literally and figuratively.
Howard said...
No one is listening to you people. That must be frustrating.
Even Inga is less pathetically juvenile than Howard.
The cost to end race hustling?: Priceless
Has any body asked these kids if they know Lincoln was assassinated and so world don't know what he would have done otherwise possibly in a second term?
In the states across our southern border, hispanics numbers are increasing. Once they become the majority there, does anybody think that the "slavery" card is going to count for much?
“No one is listening to you people. That must be frustrating.”
“Even Inga is less pathetically juvenile than Howard.”
Even Drago is less obnoxious than Rick.
Your loss
Howard said...
No one is listening to you people. That must be frustrating.
No, Howard. The internal polls on this stuff must be devastating. The Media will now make the race riots a secret.
The left has tried and tried to get Trump to over reach. That's just one more torpedo headed back your way. Vote fraud is your only hope.
Thank God for moderation. This was a fairly interesting thread to read. Without moderation it would've 100 posts by Howard, Inga, and friends.
See you around, Nichevo. Have a nice evening.
Narr
No use refighting old battles, I sometimes say.
Inga said...
Even Drago is less obnoxious than Rick.
Tell us again how the scary chanter-dancers are going to create The Handmaid's Tale here in America.
It is truly shocking to me that someone who claims to teach kids about Lincoln could say this:
"The Emancipation Proclamation was nothing more than a P.R. stunt. It was intended to revive support for the war, which was flagging. The Proclamation actually accomplished nothing. it freed the slaves in the land under rebellion and controlled by the Confederacy. They obviously ignored it. In the lands controlled by Lincoln and the Union that had slavery, it was unaffected and the slaves weren't freed."
This is supremely wrong. As is the obtuse criticism of the magnificent D.C. statue of Lincoln and the rising former slave, whose chains the Emancipation Proclamation in fact did cut. The failures to understand the context within which Lincoln acted to maneuver the nation into accepting the end of slavery, which he always intended to achieve, are monumental. The EP was a strategic move, practically the only one Lincoln then could possible make, to start the inevitable unravelling of slavery. Please read, if nothing else, Frederick Douglass's utterly magnificent speech dedicating that statue. Aside from being accurate in every respect about Lincoln, it is a stupendous example of the kind of contextualized historical thinking and analysis that is, right now, absent entirely in the posturing about this statue and so much else.
To follow up on my previous, I am surprised if Ann is serious in the way she describes the D.C. statue in her opening paragraph, and I hope she was being tongue in check. As a corrective, aside from the Frederick Douglass speech itself, I recommend this for the absolute basic understanding of a statue that ought to be our nation's proudest moment.
https://amgreatness.com/2020/06/25/lincolns-new-assassins/
Currently my favorite example of the Left's increasing stupidity (hi, Inga!) and its accompanying demand for ideological purity is the demand to fire economist, writer and lecturer Walter Block from his position at Loyola University. His sin? Being against slavery--but for the "wrong" reasons. The morons who want him fired say his objections to slavery come not from "morality" (and you know if any group is in a position to lecture us on morality, it's the Coercion and Legalized Theft Gang) but from "libertarian principles." Honest to Galt.
"Then sit back and watch the corporate recruiters line up outside the placement office."
Yeah. Whoever raised these children failed them miserably.
I just discovered that, and it saved a laptop. You can't get more real than that.
Rebooting, or really rebooting. Microsoft has done a lot, but teaching the world that rebooting solves most problems is useful way beyond just getting their products to work.
Universities need to warn incoming students that if they feel harm and stress when hearing ideas they don't agree with they need to spend some time growing up and should re-apply to university when they are actually ready to attend and learn at one.
Universities should also emphasize that the job of the faculty is to teach and the job of the student is to learn, not the other way around.
Blogger Nichevo said...
. . .
Seriously, if we had followed through on purging commies instead of being convinced that it was somehow wrong, we wouldn't be here now.
After Elian Kazan "named names" before HUAC, he consoled himself for the loss of some friends by screwing Marilyn Monroe.
They don't make 'em like that, any more.
"The issue is never the issue. The issue is always the revolution." -- An unnamed “SDS radical” quoted by David Horowitz
The statues are sophistry. Black lives mattering is sophistry. Police reform is sophistry. This is about achieving a Marxist revolution in America, and so far the public is not on their side. They need a Kent State, and they will keep ramping up the destruction and violence until one of us does something that shocks the nation.
It shames me to admit it, but I suspect that I am not "pro black."
So I've known about Lincoln's views on the race issue for a long time, and knew it was only a matter of time before they came to the fore.
The BSU president is voice is now a voice of the grievance class. The grievance class doesn't want equality. They want dominion. Why does someone, much less The Great Emancipator, have to be "Pro-Black" or pro anything? Why not pro-human?
The grievance class is not about being responsible. It's about holding someone else responsible for their grievance.
"Howard said...
No one is listening to you people. That must be frustrating."
Mehki James, Howard. That's the name of the 3 year old little boy who was shot in Chicago walking home with his father from the barber shop on fathers day. But I know, for you, black lives only matter for your political ambitions. Nobody is marching in that neighborhood.
Narr said...
See you around, Nichevo. Have a nice evening.
Narr
No use refighting old battles, I sometimes say.
Well, I didn't mean to end you, Narr. Just sayin'. If I enjoyed myself too much, apologies.
The thing is that it's not an old battle. If Ayers and Dohrn had been put up against a wall and shot, if the striking students at Columbia in '64 had been kicked the hell off campus with Odd Couple instructions to never return, if if if...but they were romanticized, they were excused, condoned, rationalized, forgiven, in the way that their Antifa and BLM progeny now are, in a way that you and I shall never be.
Lewis Wetzel said...
Blogger Nichevo said...
. . .
Seriously, if we had followed through on purging commies instead of being convinced that it was somehow wrong, we wouldn't be here now.
After Elia Kazan "named names" before HUAC...
Amazing how unpopular this viewpoint seems to be!
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