"He fully recognized, by his votes and by his voice, the rights pledged to the South by the Constitution.... [W]hen the first imperceptible movement of agitation had grown to be almost a convulsion, his course was still the same. Nor did he ever shun the obloquy that sometimes threatened to pursue the northern man who dared to love that great and sacred reality — his whole, united, native country — better than the mistiness of a philanthropic theory.... With his view of the whole subject, whether looking at it through the medium of his conscience, his feelings, or his intellect, it was impossible for him not to take his stand as the unshaken advocate of Union, and of the mutual steps of compromise which that great object unquestionably demanded.... Those northern men, therefore, who deem the great causes of human welfare as represented and involved in this present hostility against southern institutions, and who conceive that the world stands still except so far as that goes forward,— these, it may be allowed, can scarcely give their sympathy or their confidence to the subject of this memoir. But there is still another view, and probably as wise a one. It looks upon slavery as one of those evils which divine Providence does not leave to be remedied by human contrivances, but which, in its own good time, by some means impossible to be anticipated, but of the simplest and easiest operation, when all its uses shall have been fulfilled, it causes to vanish like a dream. There is no instance, in all history, of the human will and intellect having perfected any great moral reform by methods which it adapted to that end; but the progress of the world, at every step, leaves some evil or wrong on the path behind it, which the wisest of mankind, of their own set purpose, could never have found the way to rectify."
From "The Life of Franklin Pierce" by Nathaniel Hawthorne, consulted on the occasion of the University of New Hampshire's idea that maybe it ought to rename its Franklin Pierce Law School.
June 14, 2020
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138 comments:
Madison will need a new name too! Washington D.C. as well!
Alan "Hawkeye" Alda could not possibly comment.
Yale as “Yale” is toast.
Marginal students are failing at universities because they are traumatized by racial symbolism on campuses. They are traumatized by building names, by statues, by Halloween costumes, by the presence of sombreros at fraternity parties and by guest speakers who are politically conservative.
So traumatized, marginal students cannot read their textbooks and other readings.
Even when they still were in high school, they could not read their textbooks and other readings. And now, at the universities, the reading is even harder than it had been at high schools.
The universities have responsibilities for these students whom the universities themselves have enrolled. Marginal students must be supported by any means necessary.
Ah yes, Hawthorne. He never was one to "keep it pithy".
Since Blogger ate my previous comment. Pierce was right. And this Purge of historical White men (and women) that have been honored with building names, and monuments, isn't going to end with Pierce, but will continue until every President up to Bush I has been erased. The possible exceptions of JFK/FDR who are still Liberal heroes. that the Senate R's agreed to erase Confederate names, shows they are on-board.
There's no reason to have a law school named after Franklin Pierce. It's just strange. The state's law school shouldn't be putting that name on all its students. It's not like he was a big donor who was promised this honor.
Mike Sylwester said...
The universities have responsibilities for these students whom the universities themselves have enrolled. Marginal students must be supported by any means necessary.
------------===========
how do you figure who is 'marginal' and who is not?
is there a standard yardstick? has the university made that explicit?
I see no evidence for any of it.
History is being rewritten as we watch. Some, of course, is forgotten. Other goes down the Memory Hole.
Eric Blair is so proud.
"It looks upon slavery as one of those evils which divine Providence does not leave to be remedied by human contrivances, but which, in its own good time, by some means impossible to be anticipated, but of the simplest and easiest operation, when all its uses shall have been fulfilled, it causes to vanish like a dream."
I'm not sure if they should rename the school, but the man was an idiot.
How about naming it the Bill Attainder Law School. Bill Attainder did a lot of fine work in establishing the evils of racism. Some respect and recognition should be given to this fine man.
There is no instance, in all history, of the human will and intellect having perfected any great moral reform by methods which it adapted to that end; but the progress of the world, at every step, leaves some evil or wrong on the path behind it, which the wisest of mankind, of their own set purpose, could never have found the way to rectify.
That's because the opportunity to burn down a Wendy's franchise did not avail itself to him in his day.
How long before they go after America?
Destroy all the things.
The tendency of the Left to destroy has never been more evident.
Giving an inch encourages the Leftist Collectivists to more demands.
Some people need to learn that.
There's no reason to have a law school named after Franklin Pierce. It's just strange.
Franklin Pierce was a native and life-long resident of New Hampshire. He was elected by the state of New Hampshire to serve as its US Senator. Then he became a US President.
How strange that a building should be named for him at the University of New Hampshire!
If only that building were not named after him, then the university's marginal students would succeed academically. Change the building's name, and then the students will become able to read their textbooks and pass their exams.
I grew up in New Hampshire. We’ve always been kind of embarrassed by Franklin Pierce.
My none too distant ancestors fought and, in one case, bled for the Union cause. Who do only black people have standing to protest Confederate statues? I don't have any strong opinion on the subject, but my understanding is that not all Confederates were like Nathan Bedford Forrest. Robert E. Lee was an avowed racist and a slave holder, but he was also graceful in defeat and helpful towards re-integrating the south into the union after the war. Is it possible to honor him for those aspects and ignore the rest? Leftists are no slouches when it comes to ignoring the negative aspects of their heroes, and I have never heard of any black activist who voiced criticism of any Black Panther and some of them were outright thugs.
Can the Jefferson Memorial be saved? The Washington Monument? Can the Constitution?
Oh oh, Tacoma.
King county in Washington has already "renamed" itself. Now it's your turn.
Pierce at least stood on principle of the constitutional contract with the South. Like Yale, Brown University stands on the profits earned by participation in the actual slave trader.
The officials on these places all ride high horses now.
If you have a problem with a law school being named after the guy, don't go to school there.
Problem solved.
The city of Madison should change its name too.
President James Madison did not advocate starting a Civil War to free the slaves.
Madison's silence was violence!
There is no reason to have a city named after James Madison. It's just strange.
The city should be re-named after some Colored soldier who fought in the Union Army during the Civil War.
Ann Althouse said...
There's no reason to have a law school named after Franklin Pierce.
Maybe, just, maybe, Some day, Wisconsin might (MAYBE!) be a serious enough state to be a state who's son (or daughter) becomes President of the United States
When THAT happens, maybe (just maybe) people will give a dam what you think
All the people who signed the Constitution should be delisted for the same reasons- they constructed a document that legalized slavery.
We have descended into complete madness.
Sure there is. He is the only President from New Hampshire.
“ Yale as “Yale” is toast.”
Nope. The whole point of RenameYale is to highlight that that won’t happen, because Yale is a prestigious name hence a good credential.
Just change that one building's name -- a strange name without a reason at the University of New Hampshire -- and then the marginal students will be satisfied.
They will stop their complaining, and they will begin to study effectively.
Changing that building name will calm down the situation.
“ Eric Blair is so proud.”
There goes Michael K, stuffing George Orwell down the memory hole.
(Joke)
Ann Althouse said...
There's no reason to have a law school named after Franklin Pierce. It's just strange. The state's law school shouldn't be putting that name on all its students. It's not like he was a big donor who was promised this honor."
Besides the fact that he was a Democrat president what is the compelling reason to rename the law school? And why are the students opinions of any concern? They are free to transfer elswhere.
"How strange that a building should be named for him at the University of New Hampshire!"
It's not just a building. It is the name of the law school. Students who go there have to say I graduated from Franklin Pierce Law School. Why would you want that?
And, duh, yeah, I realize FP was from NH. That's hardly a good enough reason to stick his name on every law student you graduate.
Big deal -- a President came from New Hampshire. Get over it. He was one of the worst Presidents. Find something better to be provincially proud of.
How about Sen. Edward M. Kennedy Law School?
Sure, he wasn't from New Hampshire.
But he did have many fond memories of driving there to buy liquor on Sundays.
"Maybe, just, maybe, Some day, Wisconsin might (MAYBE!) be a serious enough state to be a state who's son (or daughter) becomes President of the United States."
Yeah, we may become the Tammy Baldwin Law School. Never the Scott Walker Law School... even if he does become President.
But that's not going to happen because naming rights for the entire school (or even just for the building) will be saved to give to a very big donor. It's not going to be given away to some Wisconsin person who happens to score the presidency. You obviously don't know the value of things.
"Students who go there have to say I graduated from Franklin Pierce Law School. Why would you want that?"
Unless they're forcing people to attend the school against their will, nobody who has a problem with the name need worry about it.
Right?
"Why would you want that?"
Because a reasonable person does not require that all of society, at any one time, entirely fit her current preconceptions, realizing that most people in most places and therefore most names for most things were wrong in some way by today's standards--and that the demand for ideological purity is inherently destructive.
Yancey Ward said...
All the people who signed the Constitution should be delisted for the same reasons- they constructed a document that legalized slavery.
They would disagree and how many of them signed/ voted for the Northwest Ordinance of 1787?
Sometimes, Althouse is a voice of pure reason and stark clarity who helps us understand the confusing world we live in.
Other times, she just doesn't make a fucking lick of sense.
It's probably a woman thing. I guess I'll never understand.
granted the compromise on slavery compromised the integrity of Constitution (with a late attempt to rescue with Bill of Rights):
how did Pierce vote on the "compromise" that was set aside in Dred Scot?
what was his original and subsequent response?
"How about Sen. Edward M. Kennedy Law School?"
Required 1L courses on Swimming and How Not to Get Caught Cheating.
"If we shall suppose that American slavery is one of those offenses which in the providence of God must needs come but which having continued through His appointed time He now wills to remove and that He gives to both North and South this terrible war as the woe due to those by whom the offense came shall we discern therein any departure from those divine attributes which the believers in a living God always ascribe to Him?"
Lincoln's Second Inaugural, 1865
Hawthorn apparently wrote his life of Pierce in '52
"You obviously don't know the value of things."
I think you mean "price", not "value".
Althouse is confusing two things.
1 the historical question of why one would tack a president's name on a school
2 should the university change it now
I don’t care, as long as they follow the institutional rules for changing it. That I do are about.
“ He was one of the worst Presidents.”
Indeed. And yet in his day he was pre-missed too.
... No comprehensive biography of Pierce exists which bridges the gap between Hawthorne's friendly hagiography and Nevins's portrayal of Pierce as weak, lacking conviction, and of small character. ..
---------=====
so is Pierce Mittens 'predux'
Maybe UNH should hold a naming auction for the law school--which of course is and always will be an elitist institution the purpose of which is to reproduce the inequities of society to the benefit of well-to-do symbolic analysts like the Prof.
At least the Prof is honest--it's all about the Benjamins.
Narr
Stop the presses, right?
They should rename the law school for George Floyd, Freddie Gray, the “Ain’t Nobody Got Time Fo’ Dat” woman, or some other great African-American.
Mike Sylwester,
"The city [Madison] should be re-named after some Colored soldier who fought in the Union Army during the Civil War."
No, that won't work; just a couple of days back in Richmond, they defaced the monument to black Union soldiers right along with everything else. Maybe it was the guns depicted in the bas relief?
Yancey Ward has it right: "All the people who signed the Constitution should be delisted for the same reasons- they constructed a document that legalized slavery." Why not? You can throw in Lincoln while you're at it; he famously said that he would preserve the Union if it meant freeing all the slaves, or freeing none of the slaves, or freeing some and letting others alone. This idea that he had anything to say against slavery as such is all just Northern hooey. (/sarc: I cannot imagine anyone actually making that argument today, but then that's today, not five years from now. In five years the Lincoln-Douglas Debates will probably be, like the "Letter From Birmingham Jail," words that no one can read in public any more.)
Ann, I understand that you shudder at the thought of a law school being named for a politician. But big donations don't really get you anywhere either, unless they are politically acceptable, nowadays. Lee Bass had his $20 million sent back from Yale after it turned out he was serious about its being used to fund the study of Western civilization, remember?
Yancey Ward
I would not be surprised if your name didn’t get you mobbed or cancelled someday.
They shouldn't be putting "that name" on law students. What an absurd comment! He's a former President of the USA.
Sorry, we can't go back 160 years and convince him that he was REALLY, REALLY Wrong about the Civil War and Slavery. And that all those people needed to die early in life, cause we REALLY REALLY care about slavery in 2020.
All this crap happens because of white women. The Karen's don't care about history and think they're accomplishing something by erasing people from history and constantly changing building names, place names, destroying cemetery monuments, etc.
What is all this activity supposed to do, except make people feel like we're living in the new USSR?
Jupiter,
Bravo.
It needs stressing, again and again, that the over-riding issue presented to the Framers of the Constitution was to unite and form a country before the British Crown could reorganize its forces and take back the colonies, one by one.
So those opposing slavery had to bite the bullet and allow it. It's not like they were ratifying the practice, just bowing to a greater reality.
What was Pierce's position on the death camps in North Korea? What was Obama's?
"He is the only President from New Hampshire."
And he was a lawyer, so, a law school.
The people i respect are the abolitionists who wanted the North to secede. If the Slavery and the South were so evil, then breakaway from them, and have nothing to do with them, till they got rid of slavery. That makes sense. Instead, we , mostly got this absurd, abolitionist: "You go fight the southerners and die, while I stay home and make speeches" types.
We know that "liberals" are such vehement, latter-day abolitionists because if there's one thing they value, it's individual liberty!
They could name the school after the greatest African-American, and greatest African, of all time, Elon Musk.
The state's law school shouldn't be putting that name on all its students. It's not like he was a big donor who was promised this honor.
The idea that I am a brand and everything about me is branding is really screwing up society.
Just wait until half the law schools are renamed after the first transexual woman of color in an open relationship who's permanently celibate to sit on the Supreme Court.
That's should last a couple of years.
The state's law school shouldn't be putting that name on all its students.
Students at Jeffrey Epstein Middle School could not be reached for comment.
"Apprehension seems to exist among the people of the Southern States that by the accession of a Republican Administration their property and their peace and personal security are to be endangered. There has never been any reasonable cause for such apprehension. Indeed, the most ample evidence to the contrary has all the while existed and been open to their inspection. It is found in nearly all the published speeches of him who now addresses you. I do but quote from one of those speeches when I declare that--
I have no purpose, directly or indirectly, to interfere with the institution of slavery in the States where it exists. I believe I have no lawful right to do so, and I have no inclination to do so."
- Lincoln's first inaugural.
Franklin Pierce wasn't just a POTUS, he was also a Brigadier General of volunteers in the Mexican-American War. UNH can't remember him for that?
We'll trade you Yale for Franklin Pierce.
I raise a glass to the memory of Franklin Pierce.
My city is inconveniently named Jacksonville, after that Old Hickory feller that owned slaves and hated native Americans almost as much as he hated the Brits.
After I'm gone, my money's on Timucuan for a melodious sounding replacement. Local tribe.
Easy to pronounce, once you know how. It'll always be Duval, though. Maybe we can call it that, but Timucuan sounds better. The local powers that be are too busy taking down anything related to the Civil War and getting ready for Trump's speech night, as well as the riots that will come along with it.
The history of Franklin Pierce School of Law is a little strange. It was founded in 1973 by an MIT professor who was more famous for his search for the Loch Ness monster. While it is the only law school in the state, none of the state‘s Supreme Court Justices are graduates. It did not become part of UNH until 2010, at which point Franklin Pierce’s name was removed, but they put his name back on it in 2019, apparently because that name was the best thing the law school had going for it.
This isnt about that
https://reason.com/2020/06/12/protesters-activists-shor-floyd-1793-project/
The Crack Emcee said... I'm not sure if they should rename the school, but the man was an idiot.
I don't have a dog in the renaming fight. If the next generation wants to undo work of the previous generation, that is something they have to live with. It's not a big deal, except I am pretty sure that the institutions will wind up with names like:
The Kermit Gosnell School of Medicine
The William Kunstler School of Law
The Dan Rather School of Journalism
The Ted Kennedy Driving School
The Hillary Clinton Center for Integrity in Politics
and so on.
"Get over it. He was one of the worst Presidents."
Compared to what?
My alma mater's mascot is a Paladin, defender against the Saracen hordes, and the school was named for a South Carolina paladin clergyman who among other writings, also defended slavery.
I, for one, see nothing at all wrong in accepting that history happened, and that it continues to happen. We were taught at that alma mater to celebrate the good, as we now see it, in the lives of those who came before us, and to condemn the evil they did in their time.
If you cannot differentiate the good people do from the wrongs they inflict upon others, you're gonna have an unhappy life denouncing everyone for something, all the time.
"The people i respect are the abolitionists who wanted the North to secede."
The general view among men of affairs in the North was that, if the South were allowed to secede, the Confederacy would assemble an Empire in the Caribbean, would challenge the US claims to the lands taken from Mexico in the West, and would naturally ally with Britain, which at that time still held Canada. They saw the preservation of the Union as necessary to their way of life, just as the Southerners felt they needed to "dismantle" it to save their own.
I guess the only way to be cruelly neutral is to give everything a number instead of a name. Well, unless it’s a bad number.
In keeping with the spirit of the moment, perhaps the law school should be renamed the Che Guevara Law School.
Ya got 'em.
I do kinda like the idea of "The Dindu Nuffin School of Law at New Hampshire University". Home of the Turning His Life Around Project.
I mean, what else has New Hampshire got going for it. It's only a little bigger than my back yard and its got Pierce and its got that rock with the face on it that fell off and its got some pretty leaves in the fall and its got.... its got.... did I mention the rock?
So yeah. They named their law school after the former Pres. Seems like a good idea to me.
It really is ridiculous to read all these 21st Century Pompous blowhards get on the internet or on TV and tell us how THEY REALLY HATE SLAVERY.
Well, golly gee Abner, you really are something. What a brave stand! You certainly are a GREAT person to care about an issue that's been DEAD FOR 150 YEARS. Next you'll tell us how you Really, Really, hate Adolph Hitler. Who's only been dead for 75 years.
Notice all these great fighters of injustice, never seem to care about slavery in Africa that exists RIGHT NOW. Or all the 3rd world sweatshops where people are getting 50 cents/hour or without safety standards. But they all want us to know they HATE Slaveholders and can't stand the idea of that Robert E. Lee statue being there.
A "marginal student" is one whose academic credentials put him at the bottom of the entering class. Marginal students in one class could have superior credentials in another. When aaccepted into both schools, a student needs to decide whether the risk of, perhaps, not being able to succeed where he starts out near the bottom is outweighed by having a more valuable credential if he makes it. Most marginal students don't make it. One of the travesties of higher education is how much debt is run up by students who were not given a clear picture of the odds of making it to graduation for students accepted at the margin.
Ms. Althouse says: "Students who there have to say that they graduated from Franklin Pierce Law School. Why would you want that?"
My decidedly "former" "ex" "cancelled" alma mater now calls itself Berkeley Law School.
I used to write donation checks to Boalt Hall School of Law, But now I don't know where to send the checks since the name (and the school) has changed. But it's woke city alright. I suppose there are some fellow graduates of the former Boalt Hall who will still contribute. I'm just not one of them.
Memphis was named for an Egyptian city.
Egyptians held slaves.
But the slaves were, among others, Jewish.
According to the identity politics of the day, Memphis is ok as the name of a place, right?
I mean, at least according to Bill de Blasio, right?
Nathaniel Hawwthorne and Franklin Pierce were schoolmates at Bowdoin. Hawthorne had just written "The House of Seven Gables" and "The Scarlet Letter", both instant bestsellers, when he agreed to write the campaign biography for Pierce. After the election Pierce gave Hawthorne a patronage job so he could afford to devote his time to his writing. Things haven't changed much.
The New Hampshire kerfuffle is nothing. I read today that athletes at Univ. of Texas want the schools fight song, The Eyes of Texas, eliminated. It seems the song was first performed on campus in a minstrel show early in the 20th century. If it is not flushed down the memory hole, athletes and former athletes of the school will not play, help recruit or help fund raise for their old school even though there is not a syllable of racist thought anywhere in the song.
The fight song (better called the pride song) is deeply ingrained in the culture of the school and the state, but it has to go or else.
But wait, how can deleting this inocuous little ditty cleanse the school of this terrible iniquity--THEY USED TO PRESENT MINSTREL SHOWS AT THE UNIVERISTY OF TEXAS!?! How can any self-respecting black athlete affiliate with UT ever again. Fuck the song man, how you gonna delete that history. Just have to ignore it I guess, or abandon the school forever, because the past is the one thing you can not change.
Let's start the renaming of all the stuff named in honor of a recent politician and former Grand Wizard of the KKK
Robert C. Byrd Health and Wellness Center, Bethany College in Bethany, West Virginia
Robert C. Byrd Health Sciences Center, West Virginia University in Morgantown, West Virginia
Robert C. Byrd Health Sciences Center Charleston Division, Charleston, West Virginia
Robert C. Byrd High School, Clarksburg, West Virginia
Robert C. Byrd Institute for Advanced Flexible Manufacturing (RCBI) Bridgeport Manufacturing Technology Center, Bridgeport, West Virginia
RCBI Charleston Manufacturing Technology Center, South Charleston, West Virginia
RCBI Huntington Manufacturing Technology Center, Huntington, West Virginia
RCBI Rocket Center Manufacturing Technology Center, Rocket Center, West Virginia
Robert C. Byrd Institute for Composites Technology and Training Center, Bridgeport, West Virginia
Robert C. Byrd Library, Wheeling, West Virginia
Robert C. Byrd Library and Robert C. Byrd Learning Resource Center, the University of Charleston in Beckley
Robert C. Byrd Life Long Learning Center, Eastern West Virginia Community and Technical College in Moorefield, West Virginia
Robert C. Byrd Life Long Learning Center, West Virginia University in Morgantown, West Virginia
Robert C. Byrd Metals Fabrication Center, Rocket Center, West Virginia
Robert C. Byrd National Aerospace Education Center, Bridgeport, West Virginia (affiliated with Fairmont State University
Robert C. Byrd National Technology Transfer Center, Wheeling Jesuit University in Wheeling, West Virginia
Robert C. Byrd Regional Training Institute, Camp Dawson near Kingwood, West Virginia
Robert C. Byrd Science and Technology Center, Shepherd University in Shepherdstown, West Virginia
Robert C. Byrd Technology Center, Alderson–Broaddus College in Philippi, West Virginia[
Robert C. Byrd United Technical Center
Part 2
Commerce
Robert C. Byrd Hilltop Office Complex, Rocket Center, West Virginia
Robert C. Byrd Industrial Park, Moorefield, West Virginia
Community
Robert C. Byrd Community Center, Pine Grove, West Virginia
Robert C. Byrd Community Center, Sugar Grove, West Virginia
Robert C. Byrd Rooms, Office of the West Virginia Senate Minority Leader, West Virginia State Capitol in Charleston, West Virginia
Robert C. Byrd United States Courthouse and Federal Building, Beckley, West Virginia
Robert C. Byrd United States Courthouse and Federal Building, Charleston, West Virginia
Robert C. Byrd Federal Correctional Institution, Hazelton, West Virginia[6][10]
Healthcare
Robert C. Byrd Clinic, West Virginia School of Osteopathic Medicine in Lewisburg, West Virginia
Robert C. Byrd Clinical Addition to Veteran's Hospital, Huntington, West Virginia
Robert C. Byrd Addition to the Lodge at Oglebay Park, Wheeling, West Virginia
Robert C. Byrd Conference Center (also known as the Robert C. Byrd Center for Hospitality and Tourism), Davis & Elkins College in Elkins, West Virginia
Robert C. Byrd Visitor Center, Harpers Ferry National Historical Park in Harpers Ferry, West Virginia
The Robert C. Byrd Bridge crossing the Ohio River between Huntington, West Virginia and Chesapeake, Ohio.
Robert C. Byrd Appalachian Highway System, Appalachian Development Highway System in West Virginia
Robert C. Byrd Bridge, crosses the Ohio River between Huntington, West Virginia and Chesapeake, Ohio
Robert C. Byrd Bridge, Ohio County, West Virginia
Robert C. Byrd Drive, West Virginia Routes 16 and 97 between Beckley and Sophia, West Virginia
Robert C. Byrd Expressway, United States Route 22 near Weirton, West Virginia
Robert C. Byrd Freeway, United States Route 119 between Williamson and Charleston, West Virginia (also known as Corridor
Robert C. Byrd Highway, United States Route 48 between Weston, West Virginia and the Virginia state line near Wardensville, West Virginia (also known as Corridor H)
Robert C. Byrd Interchange on Interstate 77
Robert C. Byrd Interchange on United States Route 19, Birch River, West Virginia
Robert C. Byrd Intermodal Transportation Center, Wheeling, West Virginia
Robert C. Byrd Locks and Dam, Ohio River in Gallipolis Ferry, West Virginia
"Germans are able to teach history and reference historical events, the bad and good, without feeling a need to honor Hitler, erect statues or name bases after Nazi generals, or display the Swastika flag."
~ Matthew Dowd
The late Barbara Pierce Bush was a descendant. Was this a Sununu suckup, or is the name of longer standing?
I expect soon for BLM and other lefties to demand that Mt. Rushmore to be dynamited. Why? Let me count the ways:
1) George Washington & Thomas Jefferson were slave holders
2) Abraham Lincoln was a Republican, which automatically in the eyes of the left, deems him a “racist” (sarcasm on my part based on the learned ignorance of our younger citizens) . I am sure they will find something to smear him with, real or imagined, just because...
3) Teddy Roosevelt was an “imperialist” & a “racist” because he was a Republican (again, sarcasm)
4) Blasted out of a mountain on sacred Native American ground
Basically, the rules that the left operate on change on a dime. Who is acceptable today could be deemed persona non grata tomorrow. A big donor of a law school who has the school named after him/her today, could be unacceptable tomorrow after the left finds out that their great-great-great-great grandfather, who built the family wealth that was used to endow the school, was found out to have been active in the KKK back in 1870 - by extension, they are guilty by DNA, white privilege, and their wealth being blood money.
sunsong: ""Germans are able to teach history and reference historical events, the bad and good, without feeling a need to honor Hitler, erect statues or name bases after Nazi generals, or display the Swastika flag."
~ Matthew Dowd
Leftists are attacking memorials and statues of Churchill, George Washington, Lincoln, black military units of the civil war, WW2 veterans, the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier of the Revolution, Christopher Columbus, northern abolitionists, and now even Gandhi.
Perhaps sunsong will let us know how many of those served in the Confederate army.
What the Maoist/Khmer Rouge types are doing is the attempted obliteration of all of western civilization and its history so that, like Pol Pot, they can start anew with Year Zero of the Great Leftist Experiment.
Spoiler: it will end as all leftist People's Paradises end.
sunsong,
Appeals to authority are generally poor rhetorical devices.
Appeals to the authority of Matthew Dowd are useless and identify the appellant as an idiot.
You are a worthless commenter.
So if I read this passage correctly, the whole theory of what we call modern "liberalism" is nothing but a moral vanity.
Matthew Dowd - Confederates were not Nazis, my friend.
sunsong is now the resident expert on Nazis.
Good to be an expert on something. What would we do without experts ?
Jupiter said...
"You obviously don't know the value of things."
I think you mean "price", not "value".
Michelle Dulak Thomson said...
Jupiter,
Bravo.
-----------=============
and Cordelia Naismith said : price is what you get; cost is what you pay
"If you cannot differentiate the good people do from the wrongs they inflict upon others, you're gonna have an unhappy life denouncing everyone for something, all the time."
And then, 100 years from now, your descendants will denounce you for something you're doing right now that somehow ends up being problematic in the "New and Improved" future.
@sunsong,
So, you consider the Confederacy to be the equivalent of Nazi Germany in moral evil? Really? Can you explain who that seemingly obvious moral defect escaped the notice of the hundreds if not thousands of historians who have written on the Civil War, which is by the way, along with the Bible, the most written upon topic in the English language?
Strange that such assertions of great moral failure never seen to be directed by the Left at the various regimes that have called themselves "socialist", and who together murdered 100 million of their own citizens in 80 years or so. Oh no, for the Left "socialist" is always "Sweden", not the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.
Memphis wasn't named for a city in Egypt, Memphis was a city in Egypt. Originally.
The one here is minority-majority and has been for a while, and solidly locked into the D plantation system now. The same people who would have been Boss Crump's strongest supporters have made their peace with the Black pols and organizers; once in a while, like the recent mayoral election, some young radical intersectionalist tries to ride an always simmering anger into something big.
The relative racial peace in Memphis now is a bit paradoxical. My theory is that we (blacks and whites) are probably more intermixed at work and play IN Memphis than in most other large US cities; most of the suburbs are far paler in complexion.
Narr
Other than summer from May to October, I like the place
"Germans are able to teach history and reference historical events, the bad and good, without feeling a need to honor Hitler, erect statues or name bases after Nazi generals, or display the Swastika flag."
Lucky for them, as they would be thrown in prison by the government placed over them by their conquerors if they attempted any of those things. The Russians seem rather more attached to their own history, although it is quite a bit uglier than Germany's.
I could buy into this except for the hypocrisy of Democrats, Grand Dragon of the KKK Robt. C. Byrd has a dozen academic buildings named for him that are “damaging the academic progress” of thousands of minorities that the dems don’t care about? When will they throw him under the bus?
“There's no reason to have a law school named after Franklin Pierce. It's just strange. The state's law school shouldn't be putting that name on all its students. It's not like he was a big donor who was promised this honor.“
I know this shameless tactic on naming gets some money, but named buildings are a mark of vanity for rich social climbing people. Why not name these buildings after the real heros of education, the poor taxpayers of the states that give their widows mite to educate kids who will grow up to resent and belittle them after taking their money to educate themselves for high paying jobs. Just name the school after the “unknown taxpayer of the state of New Hampshire.”
Some people are raped, some crippled, some have family members murdered. These people seek medical help and have to live through the horror and become whole again. Too bad there is no psychological help for those held in horrible conditions 150 years ago.
Germany became a more horrible nation in recent time than the US South was, mass killing is worse than slavery in my book, not by much though. But Germany was forgiven, and Japan, and both countries are now pretty arrogant and morally superior. I guess if you save the world and are a savior of millions your prior guilt is not expunged. If you are defeated you get a pass for your prior sins.
“The state's law school shouldn't be putting that name on all its students.”
This is about 179 degrees off. The state is not “putting” that name on the students. They apply to the school, and pay for the name. If anyone is having the name foist upon them it’s the taxpayers not the students. (Students pay taxes, hence the 1 degree.)
There is a good case to be made to change the name. But it’s unconnected to Althouse’s complaint.
and we have the ashanti slave traders, that major baden powell, suppressed in his expeditions before the boer war, this was before he founded the scouts, but he is being cancelled,
I infer from the quotation that Pierce believed that the Constitution committed the Union to protecting slavery and allowing its expansion. That was widely believed in the antebellum era, but it was WRONG. The drafters of the Constitution knew that an anti-slavery Constitution could not be ratified, but they went to substantial lengths to assure that the Constitution did not SUPPORT slavery (and it expressly allowed the federal government to end the trans-Atlantic slave trade, which it did). That's why the Constitution refers to "a Person held to Service or Labour", not to "a Slave". The drafters did not want to give any support to the idea that a human being could be "owned" by another human being. If you are interested in the issue, please read "No Property In Man: Slavery and Antislavery at the Nation's Founding", by Sean Wilentz. Of course, as it happened, it took a civil war and the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Americans, north and south, to make the "no property in man" principle a reality.
@Crack,
It looks upon slavery as one of those evils which divine Providence does not leave to be remedied by human contrivances, but which, in its own good time, by some means impossible to be anticipated, but of the simplest and easiest operation, when all its uses shall have been fulfilled, it causes to vanish like a dream."
I'm not sure if they should rename the school, but the man was an idiot.
No, actually, Pierce was close to right.
Forget about moral explanations for history. This was good. That was evil. That's what I call the Mr. Mackey School of Historiography, after the character on South Park who's given to lecturing the students with moral platitudes: "Kidz, drugs are bad, mmmkay?".
No, what made slavery necessary was that throughout human history, nobody had any money. The rich were rich because they owned lots of land & possessed what came from it. Even at the height of the Roman Empire, interest rates were upwards of 30%, because it was a reflection of the rarity of money. George Washington was one of the richest men in Virginia, but had to borrow the money to be able to afford to travel to his own inauguration in NYC. There simply was no money in circulation, ever.
This began to change in the 19th C, with the rise of the industrial revolution & the centralized nation state. Finally, there was enough money in circulation that industrialists could get the necessary liquidity to pay a large number of workers. Everyone forgets it's real hard to have "wage workers" when there's no way to pay their wages.
That's what did slavery in. For the world before the Industrial Revolution, a world without bound labor, either slave or serf, would have been a world without an economy at all.
sunsong said...
"Germans are able to teach history and reference historical events, the bad and good, without feeling a need to honor Hitler, erect statues or name bases after Nazi generals, or display the Swastika flag."
~ Matthew Dowd"
Too bad we can't do the same about Marx, Marxism and Communism. Why not? We don't teach flat earth and astrology in science classes. What's your point?
Btw, if you live in. Blue city named after anyone, move. If you live in a blue city not named after anyone, move.
Get over it. He was one of the worst Presidents.
Then there should never be any university buildings named after Barack Obama.
the fire rises,
https://legalinsurrection.com/2020/06/dont-mess-with-the-alamo-historic-alamo-under-protection-from-violent-protesters/
well that inconvenient,
https://spectator.us/remember-joe-biden-gave-eulogy-strom-thurmond/
Students who go there have to say I graduated from Franklin Pierce Law School. Why would you want that?
Of course they don't have to say that, they can just say graduated from UNH Law and everyone will get it.
No one ever thought about Franklin Pierce until this current moral panic. I lived in Pierce County, WA for 6 years and the subject of Franklin Pierce never arose once.
This is just another part of the effort to erase American history and start over again from The Year Zero. That never goes well and it won't go well this time either.
Pierce was, imo, not a completely bad President. Only historians and other lefties see him as a bad President. But Lincoln shit on the Constitution several times “for a good cause” so Pierce gets shit on. Fuck that! Where‘s the cruel neutrality?
The secessionist Yankees could have allied themselves with the French Canada, defeated the British and let the South run the Caribbean.
there's an alternative history series in there somewhere.
Doesn't every top notch law school have a chair gifted to it by the firm of Dewey, Cheatem & Howe?
Ann, Franklin Pierce’s biggest problem was that he was a wimp. See this post from my old history blog. https://elektratig.blogspot.com/2008/05/franklin-pierce-wimp.html
"The Ted Kennedy Driving School"
Pretty good, but I prefer "The Ted Kennedy School for Underwater Rescue".
sunsong said...
"Germans are able to teach history and reference historical events, the bad and good, without feeling a need to honor Hitler, erect statues or name bases after Nazi generals, or display the Swastika flag."
~ Matthew Dowd
*******************************
So I guess we should blame Abe Lincoln for not hanging every Confederate official and officer he could get his hands on. THAT certainly would have bound up the nation's wounds, and achieved a "lasting peace among ourselves": non of this "with malice toward none" nonsense.
And OF COURSE the defeated South was every bit as horrible as the Nazis, who killed Jews by the millions and other Europeans by the tens of millions. That evil monster Robert E. Lee was EXACTLY like Hitler, doncha know...
Yeah, exactly the same.
There's no reason to have a law school named after Franklin Pierce. It's just strange. The state's law school shouldn't be putting that name on all its students. It's not like he was a big donor who was promised this honor.
Like Boalt Hall? His widow granted the land on which the building was constructed. Even a significant donation does not immunize you from something you wrote in 1877. Those with 21st Century moral clarity will not countenance the actions or words of those who preceded us when backward viewed through the mists of time as if the current viewer would have had such moral clarity at the time. While the statues are toppling and chiseled names are falling into the dumpster and strategically significant army bases are renamed, we get to celebrate our superiority and enlightenment blissfully unmindful of our own flaws as we deface history.
- Krumhorn
"Germans are able to teach history and reference historical events, the bad and good, without feeling a need to honor Hitler, erect statues or name bases after Nazi generals, or display the Swastika flag."
~ Matthew Dowd
Most Germans still honor Karl Marx and this is basically the same thing as honoring Adolf Hitler. I say they not only because both men were bad, but because they believed in many of the same things.
Germans still do some of the same things the Nazis did, such as persecuting people who are not politically correct.
The other famous guy from NH is Daniel Webster, who seems like a natural for the apparently tricky job of Law School Eponym, were it not for this:
Webster was personally opposed to slavery, but accommodated Southern concerns because of his deeply held belief that the preservation of the Union was more important than any other issue.
Having read most of the comments so far it appears the reasonable thing to do is to take the dog for a walk. Then at least the dog will accomplish something and I'll get some fresh air.
Franklin Peirce was not a good president; generally ranked 36th. Totally a dark horse compromise. Nominated on the 35th ballot, won candidacy on the 49th. On the way to the White House after winning the election, his train was derailed and the car he, his wife and their son were in rolled down an embankment. He and his wife watched their son die. She never forgave him. She insisted from that day forth that if he hadn't run for president their son would still be alive. Made his life a living hell, and had to have had an impact on his effectiveness.
Eli Yale was a slave trader. He help found Yale University.
Obviously:
Anyone who went to Yale should burn their diploma. They should demand the school change its name. They should call for the entire endowment to be dispersed to SJW causes.
Who's on deck?
Both Yale and Brown must be renamed. Otherwise this whole thing is a joke.
Wisconsin doesn't need a president. We have Vince Lombardi.
I just read parts of the wiki entry on Franklin Pierce. What Pierce had going for him, prior to now, was that he was a nonentity. I put him in a class with Millard Fillmore, but he was more of a failure than an obscure mediocrity. As a failure. he was overshadowed by James Buchanan, but Pierce was definitely more a failure than a mediocrity. Millard Fillmore's place as America's preeminent mediocre President remains unchallenged.....The Franklin P. Pierce Law School only dates back to 1973 so it's not hallowed in antiquity the way Yale is. Pierce, like Nathan Bedford Forrest, is, in may opinion, expendable. Perhaps they could name the school after Coolidge. Vermont, New Hampshire--what's the difference....According to wiki, Pierce drank himself to death. Maybe they could name a rehab center after him. Despite the heavy drinking, he was strikingly good looking. He really did look Presidential. Maybe they could name a cosmetology school after him. Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's
Man, it's been a tough year for New Hampshire. First their voting for Bernie, Bootyjudge and Comb Lady turned out to be worthless as dog crap, now this.
"Robert E. Lee was an avowed racist and a slave holder, but he was also graceful in defeat and helpful towards re-integrating the south into the union after the war. "
That's too much nuance for today's young barbarians.
Mark Steyn was talking the other day about how the generation which so prizes "empathy" has none whatsoever. They cannot imagine that people born 100 or 200 or 500 years ago grew up in a very different world with very different assumptions and so did not see the world like young snots raised in affluence in early 21st century America do. The young snots did nothing to build the world they live in but still believe they are smarter than Franklin or Washington (both George and Booker T) or Lincoln or Lee.
As for Pierce, well, hell, he's the only president from NH, so it's not astounding that they've named stuff for him. Why aren't the SJWs screeching about the fact that every damn thing in West Virginia is named after a former member of the KKK who was great at bringing home the pork.
I bet all the members of BLM support abortion and Planned Parenthood at the moment. Why is it OK with BLM that in New York (and DC) more black babies are aborted than are born alive? and that the person who started it all has a memorial in the US National Park system? And would BLM dare oppose abortion or even dare point out the disparate impact abortion has on the black community?
Let’s Talk About the Black Abortion Rate
In New York City, thousands more black babies are aborted each year than born alive.
By Jason L. Riley, Wall Street Journal July 10, 2018
https://www.wsj.com/articles/lets-talk-about-the-black-abortion-rate-1531263697
United States Department of the Interior
National Park Service
NATIONAL REGISTER OF HISTORIC PLACES
REGISTRATION FORM
1. Name of Property
historic name: Margaret Sanger Clinic
Narr,
You missed the point on purpose?
Or was it an accident?
The secessionist Yankees could have allied themselves with the French Canada, defeated the British and let the South run the Caribbean.
there's an alternative history series in there somewhere.
6/14/20, 5:27 PM
I've thought it would be interesting to write an alternative history where Lincoln didn't run, and the South still seceeded only two years later, where a weaker US government was unwilling to stop them from leaving. Increasing abolitionist activity (running guns into the Confederacy, assisting slave to escape), combined with a resistance by the US to any further Confederate expansion Westward, creates tensions between the US and the Confederacy. Lincoln ends up winning in '64, and in response the hawks in the South convince the Davis government to launch a war in order to secure concessions. It goes poorly.
I've thought it would be interesting to write an alternative history where Lincoln didn't run, and the South still seceeded only two years later,
There are some.
Well seward might have been next in the list, and he was a more fervent abolitionist, so would fremont, only if douglas had won would we have thar corcumstance.
@Birkel--did I? Miss the point?
I was just riffing on the name; early Memphis was a slavetrading center of great renown, so I made a comment about it and how things are at the moment (with one notable equestrian statue
still stored safely somewhere, no doubt).
Narr
Was it the Jewish thing?
The only difference between Fascism and Communism is that fascists hate you because of race and communists hate you due to class.
"Students who there have to say that they graduated from Franklin Pierce Law School. Why would you want that?"
Franklin Pierce has had a great reputation for intellectual property law for decades. The name carries meaning and significance having nothing whatsoever to do with Franklin pierce the President (of whom almost everybody literally knows nothing).
Copperheads were the soul of the northern Democratic Party in the nineteenth century. Buchanan was bad, but Pierce was almost as bad with less excuse. He supported the Kansa-Nebraska Act, which sank the Compromise of 1850.
It is weird that this topic is just coming up. It should have come up years ago.
Also, Pierce drank himself to death.
Well, Northwestern has to live with the Pritzker School of Law as a result of a gift that the egregious Gov. Jabba made from his inherited billions.
wildswan - there are many very very eloquent black people who make your point. One of Martin Luther King's nieces has devoted her life to that particular cause (saving young black women from being railroaded into having abortions).
The Memphis thing opens a huge can of worms. There are lots and lots of cities in the United States named after places in the Old World, and the number of them that did not host slaves is basically nil. Rome was so thirsty for slaves that they tolerated pirates running rampant throughout the Med because said pirates were the go to place to buy slaves. That ended when the pirates attacked the Rome's port of Ostia and captured, among others, a couple of senators. Pompey was then sent out to lay down the law. Athens, despite all its talk about democracy and philosophy and theater, had a huge number of slaves in addition to being stuck up pricks who could be as ruthless as anyone in ancient times. Sparta's entire society was completely reliant on slavery to work and their concept of slavery would have given an antebellum plantation owner pause (unless he was a psychopath). Pretty much any place in Portugal, Spain, England, and France is tainted. And it's not like the New World was better, at least not by much. And if you want to use indigenous names, Native American slavery was limited mainly by their primitive economies having limited use for such things, but they still had slaves, albeit ones typically better off than the Africans brought over. (Unless the tribe decided the slave was a waste and killed him (and possibly ate him). Or if he was captured by the Aztecs in which case more blood for sun god.) For that matter, many Native Americans would go on to own African slaves themselves. Heck, I think the first person to own a legitimate slave, as opposed to an indentured servant, in what would become the 13 Colonies was a former African indentured servant.
Slavery lasted as long as it did because it made economic sense for the most part, and being a slave was typically better than starving to death or being one of many skulls piled on a pyramid out the city gates. That does not make slavery a good thing, but the world has never been an ideal place and is not an ideal place now. It would have been better for all involved if we embraced the teachings of Christ (or equivalent), loving each other and treating each others as equals. Alas.
The Whig's campaign slogan in the 1852 Presidential election was "Who is Franklin Pierce."
I get some measure of joy out of just reading Hawthorne’s words no matter the content.
"That evil monster Robert E. Lee was EXACTLY like Hitler, doncha know...".
I think Dowd's point, and therefore by extension sunsong's, is that it is, let us say, disconcerting, to live among people who revere and make statues of a man who participated in the enslavement of your race. Not just the institution of slavery, but the enslavement of your race. A point worth considering. But that slope is more than a little too slippery for my taste. We also revere the Constitution, and we suspect the Constitution is what those who would tear down statues of the founders are really itching to destroy.
Any lefties drive VWs?
HITLER LOVER!
Just take bids from corporate sponsors for naming rights, the way sports stadiums do.
Budweiser Law School should really draw in plenty of students. Or maybe COLT 45, if they want to entice the minority applicants.
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