June 18, 2020
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245 comments:
1 – 200 of 245 Newer› Newest»Impressive. My wife has agreed to go to a gun range and shoot a gun for the first time in her life. If she isn't horrified by the experience, we will be buying our first firearm. (I was in the Army, but it's been many years since I've fired any weapon).
I had partially written a comment that you might be going to a gun range, but deleted it when I couldn't find anything where you said you had never been to one. I even CTRL F'ed the thread at the time to see if anyone else had written "gun", and no one had at that point.
Details, please! What model, what caliber, etc, etc? Target pics, too!
Also, looked like you were grinning there at the end! Good for you!
Fun wasn't it?
Just wait until you try trap shooting!!
This will up the Althouse hate on the left like nothing you have done in the last 9 years.
Very nice! I admit to being impressed to see you step outside your familiar zone. Haven't even watched the video yet, but I hope you enjoyed it and will be back for more.
And you smiled at the bullseye...
I’m impressed! Great job! My wife cried the first time she shot a pistol.
Nice! I like the big smile at the end. That's the most common reaction from first timers but once in a while someone has the fearful deer in headlights look after the first shot that says this is not for me.
A nice lady like yourself has witnessed all the craziness that your preferred political party endorses.
So you practice with a firearm.
And you cheer SCOTUS continuing on the same course that has you so frightened.
This makes sense.
That's awesome. I always enjoy seeing people shoot for the first time. I'm curious how you liked your experience. What are your thoughts?
And smiled like almost everyone who does.
Things must be getting pretty ripe in Madison. Pink camo next?
Looks like a 9MM. I would have thought they would start you with a 22 or 380.
Cool. Did you have fun?
Your trigger finger discipline was decent for a novice.
It's a tool.
That's great! Even if you don't feel the need to own one, knowing about handguns seems like a good idea.
I'd like to take a handgun training class, too, but our local range is closed until further notice. Bastards.
Ann, whatever your reasons, I hope you enjoyed it. It's an interesting challenge to poke holes in a piece of paper from 10 yards away.
Note to Blue Man Group - she's armed.
Protests get a little too close to home?
Nicely done! Even with what looks like a lot of recoil :) Did you take a class or just get pointers on the range? (I just signed up for a class for novices at our local range (I thought that I really should know how to manage / clean / shoot the firearm my dad left me some years ago)
Nicely done! Even with all that recoil:) Did you take a class or just get instructions on the range? (I just signed up for a class for novices at our local range (I thought that I really should know how to manage / clean/ shoot the firearm my dad left me some years ago)
Looks like you had a good time.
Next you'll be changing your voter registration to Republican
Ok, I watched the video. You did pretty well, and your grin at the very end was honestly heartwarming.
Not having been there, my impressions are:
1) Need to work on relaxing your arms and wrists. If you have arthritis or other conditions, this can be tough, but it can be dealt with. Shoulder and forearm exercises can help greatly. It also could have just been some nerves, which is VERY common for first-timers (or ones who've been away for awhile).
2) Looks like a Glock 19 in your hands, but maybe it was one of the smaller ones? Those are definitely good guns to start on. For home defense, you might even consider a pistol with a larger frame - weight can help steady your aim. This will depend on forearm strength and other factors.
3) Honestly I have more, but thinking back to your grin at the end of the video, I'm done for now. You looked like you had fun in that booth, and your overall stance and grip were good. There are many resources out there - many of them operated by women - that can offer pointers far better and more specific than I. The firearm community is very welcoming and ready to offer help and knowledge to first-time shooters. Sounds like the R.O. (or Meade?) was a helpful guy too - they almost always are.
Again, kudos to you. However you reached the decision to give it a shot, I'm pleased that you did and hope it won't be your last.
Now go get one of these,
http://www.tattooshunter.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/Hot-Women-Show-Simple-Gun-Tattoo-Design-Image-Make-On-Hip.jpg
Well, did you enjoy yourself ? Would you do it again ? It is , after all, an enjoyable activity.
Shooting is a blast. Back in the 1980s, I was in a road band and we carried two pistols, because we'd get paid thousands in cash and didn't want to get robbed. And although we never ended up getting robbed, we would find charming young farm girls who would take us back to daddy's farm to shoot at targets. Nothing nicer than being on a farm shooting guns while sitting in lawn chairs and enjoying their lemonade.
And? Pretty neat isn't it? If it is like my experience, not scary at all and the safety consciousness of everyone is calming and amazing. When do you go for your LIC.
Now try a AR-15.
Good Ann hunting and a big smile.
I am pleased. If I were to move back to the USA, which I have neither desire nor intent to do, the first thing I would do is get firearms training and buy a gun. And not live in a blue city.
Read Sam Harris on Gun ownership. He takes it very seriously, and does regular training.
Good for you, Ann!
I sort of predicted last week that you wind up with a gun.
They're coming for you and the police, if they even exist in Madison, won't do a damn thing for you.
Your defense is in Your hands (and Meade's of course)
Nobody else's.
John Henry
What was your score?
I've shot rifles, shotguns, and a machine gun, but never a handgun. Looks like fun.
Going to get a lesson tomorrow on proper handling, usage, and storage of my new defensive 12-gauge shotgun.
So, how did you like it?
I've shot rifles, shotguns, and a machine gun, but never a handgun. Looks like fun.
Going to get a lesson tomorrow on proper handling, usage, and storage of my new defensive 12-gauge shotgun.
Good for you. Rented gun? If not, time to buy one is now.
Good job! You looked so happy and pleased. That’s a practical skill I want to add, too. And welding.
Toy
Congratulations! As you continue to practice please consider taking a Range Safety Officer (RSO) class to further immerse yourself into the safety culture of gun ownership and/or use. Your situational awareness will increase and you'll be able to better evaluate your behaviors as well of those who share range space with you. Gun ownership is invigorating because it emphasizes responsibility and accountability.
No wimpy circular target but a human target. Trying to put bullets into center mass.
You go, girl. I thought you were wimpier than that. I am glad I was wrong.
John Henry
Good for you Ann
Yay! That's what I hoped it was.
Awesome!!!
Aren't you supposed to day "Take that, you son of a bitch"?
Was the first gun you shot a 9mm? If so, wow!
Loved that smile on your face!
I was a competitive shooter back in the day, it's very satisfying to make that little piece of metal go exactly where you want it to.
Just in time!! Trump will be issuing all kinds of executive orders...and I have a feeling an interstate concealed carry is on the agenda. Time to ram things through the Progressive way!!!
Good for you! Your big smile at the end has lifted my spirits. b
I was going to guess shoot a gun, but thought you would never do that in a million years. LOL!.
The recoil is concerning. You may want to do some exercises to strengthen your hands and forearms.
NO MASK!!!
Just kidding. Nice work Althouse
I went to the indoor range the other day; they weren't practicing much in the way of social distancing, and there were no masks (except mine and my wife's). It was pretty crowded, so we won't be going back anytime soon.
Lots of new shooters/gun owners. The shelves are almost bare of pistols. Ammunition is rationed. Makes my shooting experience less enjoyable, but welcome to the new crowd of 2nd Amendment supporters.
We didn't have had handguns growing up- my father was a rifle and shotgun owner, but several of both. I have shot handguns at a range once in my life, during a business trip to San Diego in the mid 1990s. I am going to take a handgun course sometime in the next few weeks, though, and purchase one.
In a fun symmetry, my sons, who all have experience shooting guns, took their first painting class (virtually) today.
Bravo
Good news from the Ann of Meadhouse. You guys have now got Ann protection for dawn solo runs. Even the Pontifex has his Swiss Guards. Next pick yourself up up a stainless steel Swiss Army Rifle in 308 to keep at home.
The wife asks me recently if we need a gun. And I tell her an M1 Garand and 1000 rounds of 30 cal.is enough. But now I probably will get a 40 cal like yours for my birthday for concealed carry.
I see in the future ==
"Cruel Make My Day Neutrality"
HA!
>>No wimpy circular target but a human target.
As we were told in the academy years ago: "Bulleyes don't rob liquor stores."
Hi Ann, The smile on your face says it all. I love it. Need to get my wife to the range. Your an inspiration.
Women should know how to shoot and should have ac cess to a gun when going out at night or into a city that is sketchy.
Years ago, there was a talk radio host in LA named Michael Jackson. He was a lefty but did good interviews so I used to listen. One time he had the black chief of LAPD on. That was the one who later became a city councilman. The theme that day was never carry a gun. Every single caller was a woman who carried. They all said the same thing, "I will not be a victim." He would scold her and warn her of all the terrible things that could happen, then the next caller be exactly the same. I never figured out race. It was back in the 80s before Rush Limbaugh. By the end I was laughing so hard I almost had to pull over.
see! Happiness IS a warm gun!
what did it feel like? "It felt like 'recoil'"
I just watched the clip; I'm a little surprised that you could hear the instructor. His voice was audible on the video, but not loud.
What fun! We went to the range last weekend. I hadn't been in years and Mr. Pants hasn't shot anything since his ROTC days over thirty years ago, but it is time. We are the new owners of two shotguns and two handguns. And a lot of ammunition, too. He's taking the concealed carry class and I'm going to avail myself of one of those 'welcome to gunz, ladies!' classes as well. Facility with firearms is a set of skills that are important to have but I've neglected to pursue.
Thanks to, I think, Big Mike for suggesting those YouTube videos by a gun guy (Paul something, maybe?) some time back when I mentioned the Remington 870 that we'd picked up. Mr. Pants has watched all of them and raves about them.
Awesome Ann. A few comments for you:
1. For a first timer your grip, stance, and finger placement was very very good. Looks like you read or practiced or received good training beforehand. Excellent.
2. I can't stand Glocks which that appeared to be - they are to me the least comfortable hand-gun to fire in their size. However they are inexpensive (relatively), super reliable, and have outstanding performance and variability. And they are ubiquitous. So maybe being introduced to guns on one makes the most sense. If that was a glock 9mm as it appears, I invite you one day to shoot a steel framed 9mm like a Browning Hi-Power and compare.
3. Don't try an Ar-15 or similar rifle for awhile unless the front weight is resting on something. Alot of people forget those rifles are NOT easy for small-framed women to handle - it's a 3 foot long "lever" of weight hanging off your body often weighing 8-10 pounds (loaded). And you are asked to keep the very tip of it very steady as you aim and shoot. It's not really for novices.
4. As others have said, guns are just tools. They are feared by some because of the relative danger of the tool in an untrained, uncontrolled, or dangerous person's hands....but they are just a tool. We are surrounded by distracted or dangerous people wielding 4000 pounds being flung about at 60-80mph daily. That leads to 38000 deaths a year. But we aren't afraid of a car being handled correctly or parked in a driveway like we often associate fear with a firearm.
5. Much like a car, a gun can be a lot of fun to train and get the most out of it's use. Being excellent at any activity can be rewarding, and guns are no different.
Just my 02
There's a movie where Bette Davis is holding a gun on some guy, and she says "A gentleman removes his hat for a lady with a gun" (or words to that
effect. Not to be confused with The Letter, where she blasts some guy on the front steps.
I am a woman and tried shooting a pistol, shotgun and rifle two years ago--it was a LOT harder than I thought it would be. I think everyone should try it and everyone should be taught the safety rules they teach you when you learn how to shoot a gun.
So, is a warm gun happiness?
If that piece is yours, Mag-na-port that puppy! https://magnaport.com/hgun.html Best thing to happen to handguns evah!
I took a firearms training class a few years ago. What really surprised me was the shotgun. Good instructor, so I managed the kick, and dayum. That's an experience.
Good. I can use this as a push to get my wife to the range with me.
Congrats. This is a smart move to learn how to handle a handgun.
Good. I can use this as a push to get my wife to the range with me.
Congrats. This is a smart move to learn how to handle a handgun.
Really. For fun and challenge..... Trap or Skeet shooting.
THEN...Sporting Clays for a real outdoor challenge. All the fun of shooting and no animals are harmed.
You'll find that your skills will improve quickly. Womankind's most essential martial art.
The Koehler Method of Guard Dog Training starts with a warning that you're about to make a huge legal mistake. And that was in the 70s.
Ditto on the Bravo. Yet, I feel like you probably won't be buying a gun, or even shooting again. But, just shooting gives you a better understanding of guns. They have a place in society. I don't own a gun and I personally don't feel the need to carry....at this time. But if I change my mind, I am now prepared to travel the two blocks to make a purchase. With each passing day, my personal needle moves towards purchasing and getting concealed carry permit, and my wife will be right there with me.
Congratulations. It is quite the experience and it helps a great deal in understanding all issues regarding guns. Ideas that may seem logical without the experience will be very quickly tested once the reality of the matter sets in.
Also, do not take gun advice from Joe Biden. I'm not saying to do the opposite of what he says, but ask somebody who knows something about something instead.
It might be worth considering, to also get a .22 in a similar size. You would be able to shot it more, less expensively and it does not kick as much, allowing you to focus on your form more and less on the "flinch".
Oh and congratulations, looked like you enjoyed yourself!
GUN VIOLENCE!
Get those earmuffs with an electronic amplifier in them and you can hear down to the level of what dogs hear. About $30 on Amazon. Meant for hunting but great for standing outside and listening.
A revolver is nicer in that you can tell when it's loaded and there's nothing in the chamber by accident.
Annie Oakley, early blogger.
Antibody seen Chuck lately?
Two hours more instruction and you could do skydiving. Become a paratrooper.
Red pill in, bullet out. Well done!
My wife, btw, is a dead-eye marksman with almost no experience. She’s amazing, bulls eye after bulls eye.
Congratulations.
“ Looks like a Glock 19 in your hands, but maybe it was one of the smaller ones? ”
Sights looked Glockish. I really don’t like Glock sights. Well, the rear factory sights. Fine for quick close show, but I don’t like that wide U n the rear. Couldn’t tell which Glock though from the rear, but a G19 would be a good guess. Also a good starting gun.
I had been dithering about heading to the local range today. This decided me.
I had fired large and small caliber rifles, shotguns and .22 pistols by the time I graduated from HS. The first large caliber pistol was a .45 in Marine boot camp. You will never forget the thrill of that first time. If you practice enough, you will develop skill which you hopefully will never need. The thrill will wear off over time, but having the skill, should you ever need it, will be the most valuable thing in the world.
https://youtu.be/535Zy_rf4NU
in the next few weeks, though, and purchase one.
The shelves in my part of town are bare!!
There’s no remedy like a Second Amendment remedy.
All the children sing, "Hey, Bungalow Bill, what did you kill, Bungalow Bill?"
Be honest. You know the mob is coming for you, don't you? Your blog won't even need a trial.
When the statues go down, the guillotines go up. Take care of yourself, and stay safe. Congrats on the gun, and waking up from the matrix.
Vignette from a women's class where I was instructing. One woman was shaking with fear, looking down at the pistol. I asked if I could touch her and when she said "yes," took her hands and told her to follow me. And started breathing. After a minute, she said, "But. But, this is pranayama." I said, "Yes. Continue to follow me." When she settled down, she shot and did fine; had the delight reaction that meas so much to instructors. Later I heard her saying to another of the ladies, "I can't quite believe it. That instructor over there was having me do pranayama. At a shooting range!" So - for certain values of "we" - we're everywhere.
Another hateful fascist deplorable!
Come the Revolution, Meadhouse will go down fighting.
Now you need Go-bags and a bolthole.
Kudos, Althouse! I was wrong about you-thought you already owned and at least sometimes carried-but a good start. I bet old Chucko is gnashing his teeth right now at his lost opportunities.
Glad to see that your possible fate in this climate of hate, if defended only by your mouth and your aura of well-intentioned righteousness, does not appeal to you.
Never heard of this "weapon." Sounds like a good idea for defense but still not as effective as a 9mm or .38.
This is my weapon and this is my gun. One is for killing, the other's for fun.
Hope your first experience with a weapon was as enjoyable as your smile indicated.
Two thumbs up!
One of the best things is that there's lots of opportunity to be pedantic about gun lingo.
You're work with the camera is paying off in controlling your aim. The breathing control will in turn help with better camera shots. Nice recovery after each shot and 9 ring is impressive for the first time!
Your next target can be a silhouette of a guy in shorts.
Awesome, Ann!
AND in Tie Dye. Nice yin and yang with that touch.
That's it? Shot a gun? Ann, you need to BUY one. Buy it, shoot it, carry it. Do this often!
Let it become a friend when Meade is not there (or maybe even when he is there.)
Because Ann, the word "NO" carries so much more authority when you have a gun in your hand!
Mastering a gun is a great confidence builder. The last second of the video was delightful.
I Have Misplaced My Pants said...
Thanks to, I think, Big Mike for suggesting those YouTube videos by a gun guy (Paul something, maybe?)...
Paul Harrell, hands down the best YouTuber out there when it comes to guns and ammo.
Althouse should give him a peek. He's got a dry and very subtle sense of humor.
"This will up the Althouse hate on the left like nothing you have done in the last 9 years."
True enough, but as you can read here in the comments, it moves you way up in the opinion of those who would actually be there to defend you if you needed it. I too am impressed with this open-minded exploration of life, technology, and culture of a kind unfamiliar, which is the most exciting and enlightening kind.
I have been carrying that exact same gun (assume a Glock 19) every day for a year and a half now (as long as It's been legal for me). I hope I never need it, but it allows me to not just feel safe, but to know I am much safer out in the real world where people do not have to respect your rights or your life if they choose not to. I don't trust them to choose that for me, people I love, or even a stranger.
Congratulations. It's just a tool, but when you have it, it's the only one that finally and truly makes you as physically powerful as anyone of any size or disposition, man or woman. For the first time in your life, you are equal.
Congrats.
And I'd like to take this as confirmation of my prediction in the guessing thread: admit that the right is right. Ha!
I am impressed by your willingness to do it. Congratulations.
My dad first took me shooting when I was 9 or 10. I can't even remember what gun we used. Definitely not the 44 Magnum revolver he owned, probably a smaller handgun or a rifle. The most fun I had shooting was with a 22 rifle, almost no recoil at all, not too loud, but you can hit things from pretty far away and the ammo is dirt cheap.
I am no gun expert (so experts, feel free to correct me) but if you actually buy your own firearm you might want to look at a smaller caliber? Like 32? If you don't have a lot of arm and wrist strength you would have better control than with a 38/9mm. Of course you give up some stopping power but you would gain in accuracy if you ever had to use it in an emergency. And not quite as loud either, you probably wouldn't have time to find your ear protection during a crisis situation.
I’m very happy to say my wife is a far better shot than me.
The Glock 19 is not just a starting gun. It is the preferred carry gun of most people who are really into guns, and who recommend carry guns. It's just the best combination of size, caliber, reliability, ease of ownership and maintenance. It has it all, with the fewest compromises. There is always a better gun in any one category, but the 19 is the sweet spot for them all. 16 shots of 9mm, and small enough to forget you have it on.
Althouse- "I shot a gun! And I liked it"
Apologies to Katy Perry.
Nice. You might try a smaller caliber (.22 cal or .380) on your next outing. It's a good idea to master the basics on a gun with low recoil/low noise and then move up to a 9mm or similar.
I'm not saying you looked bad, just a fair amount of recoil/pistol movement. Keep a tight grip with both hands.
TIL middle-aged dogs *can* learn new tricks.
Welcome to the right side of history, the support of individual rights, and an understanding of Mao's adage that power grows from the barrel of a gun.
YES! 2nd amendment is for all.
Screw the left.
Well done. Sadly, a sign of the times. Who had the idea first, you or Meade?
>>I hadn't been in years and Mr. Pants hasn't shot anything since his ROTC days over thirty years ago, but it is time.
Mrs. DtM decided she's going to carry, after showing no interest at all in guns or shooting for more than 30 years.
Maybe it's just confirmation bias, but something does seem to be happening. I think the riots and the response (don't arrest rioters, arrest the police for arresting rioters) seems to have scared the hell out of a lot of women.
"I don't own a gun and I personally don't feel the need to carry....at this time. But if I change my mind, I am now prepared to travel the two blocks to make a purchase. "
I understand not desiring to carry, but not owning one at all is madness. Especially now.
Take the walk, buy yourself an affordable home defense pistol chambered in 9mm, spend an hour practicing and familiarizing, and take home at least 50 rounds of hollow-point defensive ammo and 100 rounds of range ammo.
Shotguns are good too, but the recoil under TRUE stress is not friendly. Other commenters have mentioned owning shotguns for home defense, and there are many professional advocates of that strategy, but my personal feelings are that a pistol is actually easier to handle in a stressful situation. Shotguns can throw your balance off, short-stroking the action is a real concern, and ammo capacity is lacking. In just one of my pistols, I have 17 rounds at the ready for that 2AM glass breaking - try getting that out of a shotgun.
And quite frankly, while a single shotgun hit will do much more damage than a pistol hit, if you miss that shot and fumble the action getting the second loaded, you're now holding a baseball bat. None of my pistols has ever given me more issues than a stovepipe, which can be cleared in a fraction of a second (even by my wife, even in the dark).
Shotguns have their place, but not in my system.
Joe Huffman, blogger, describes that look on your face as you turn around as, "The New Shooter Smile."
"The Glock 19 is not just a starting gun. It is the preferred carry gun of most people who are really into guns, and who recommend carry guns."
You are correct. I throw shade at Glocks because I'm obligated to as a Walther fanboy, but I would trust my life to one if needed. Their stock sights are generally awful though - it's the first thing most users will change out.
PPQ still better though . . .
Congratulations. Tens of thousand of first-timers just like you have been doing the same thing going back to the beginning of March.
I’m the managing editor of The Truth About Guns. If I can be of any help, please let me know.
I took a women's shooting class, then an intermediate class with guys, then starting practicing with the practical shooting club. Then, competition!
Highly recomnend! But we have a lovely outdoor range.
Awesome!. Keep at it. More forward weight in your stance.
"Get those earmuffs with an electronic amplifier in them and you can hear down to the level of what dogs hear. About $30 on Amazon. Meant for hunting but great for standing outside and listening."
MY absolute favorite is the Walker Razor headset. Amplifies any noise under 80db, and blanks out noises above. You can also plug an Mp3 player or walkman into it to listen to tunes, or a radio/walkie talkie. Also useful for lawnmowing, power tools, and crying infants when you're THIS CLOSE to finishing a project bid.
bagoh20 said...
There is always a better gun in any one category, but the 19 is the sweet spot for them all. 16 shots of 9mm, and small enough to forget you have it on.
6/18/20, 3:52 PM
I just have never liked the looks of Glocks. A personal thing. My current carry is a Sig P365. If you have not looked at one, you should. It may not be your thing if you are a big Glock fan but it is quite the nice carry pistol. Have been very happy with it (bday gift from wife last year).
Althouse, last week: Outrageous pessimism at the NYT: "On the Future, Americans Can Agree: It Doesn’t Look Good." Hell, no. I won't agree.
Althouse, this week: I shot a gun!
Congratulations! You showed good form and got good results...brava! I hope you enjoyed it as much as you appeared to, and also hope you will be back for more. I was in the firearm business for more than 20 years and that smile you showed at the end of the video is a familiar sight often seen on the face of a first time shooter. Now that you’ve crossed that Rubicon, I will pass along a pearl of wisdom to consider that is now in play for you, from Thunder Ranch’s Clint Smith: “ You cannot save the planet. You may be able to save yourself and your family”.
My wife got a .22 Mag, double action only revolver. equipped with a laser. I like the revolver because it is so safe. Hard to hit accurately with double action since you must pull a hard trigger to get the hammer back. But also less likely to fire accidentally. And .22 Mag carries quite a punch more than regular .22 rounds. She has a concealed carry permit but keeps the weapon in her car.
>>Remington 870 that we'd picked up.
Pants,
My favorite, and what I carried ages ago before they started issuing carbines to patrolmen.
Make sure you understand what short stroking ("short shucking") is, and how it can instantly lock up your shotgun and make it useless.
In my (limited) experience, this is usually something women are more likely to do than men.
It's almost always the result of "babying" the action, instead of just slamming it all the way back and all the way forward like you're supposed to! :)
Congratulations! I've taken many first timers (mostly foreigners - German and Irish) out to my gun club for shooting. They always start finicky, but end up with huge grins and asking for additional magazines. Which is great in my mind, I reload (and just got my 9mm bullet mold today and 5 pounds of lead yesterday) so the cost is at least half of commercial ammo, and I can fine tune loads for my different rifles. Pistols are pretty straight forward for reloading, unless you're talking about those weird bottleneck Russian and Japanese stuff.
"if you actually buy your own firearm you might want to look at a smaller caliber? Like 32? If you don't have a lot of arm and wrist strength you would have better control than with a 38/9mm."
Not a credentialed expert, but IMHO, .32 ACP is not enough. .380 ACP is acceptable. 9mm and above are ideal. If recoil is the problem, I'd work on grip, hand/arm strength, and posture before downgrading my caliber. If you have no other choice due to arthritis or other afflictions, then ammo selection becomes VERY important. You want a round that maximizes the energy dumped into the target, because it is this energy that will stop the attack (unless you get a tight group right in the head or the heart). IMHO, .32 ACP is best left for the backup gun - the one you reach for when your other options are exhausted - and even then, my backups are all 9mm as well, just smaller or cheaper than my primaries.
If recoil is the problem, but you have decent arm strength, go for a HEAVIER gun, one with a metal frame (instead of polymer). It'll absorb more of that recoil energy and be steadier on target (until your arm tires - but that probably won't be an issue during the 3-30 seconds the scenario is likely to last).
>>Paul Harrell, hands down the best YouTuber out there when it comes to guns and ammo.
Paul makes me nervous for some reason. Hickok45 for me. :)
Here is an anti-gun woman trying a gun for the first time. I think she was converted, and the instructor (John Lovell) is easy on the eyes, ladies. My girls love him. He has a great YouTube gun channel that also discusses, self-defense, philosophy, relationships, religion, and only a tiny amount politics when forced to. He has a great sense of humor about it all.
https://youtu.be/2W-eSxR5gIc
@Althouse, happy as I am to see you at a shooting range I have to express some concern about your apparent difficulty dealing with the recoil. May I ask what caliber were you shooting? If you were shooting .40 you might try 9mm. If 9mm you might try a revolver in .38 Special or a semiautomatic in .380. Other things you can do include shooting a heavier pistol (weight reduces felt recoil) or have an instructor teach you the Weaver stance, which braces you better than the isosceles stance you appeared to be using.
I bet you didn't think it was going to be as exciting as it was. It's definitely in the top five most fun things you do with your clothes on. It's all about having that compact power you can hold in your hands.
You go girl
Did you think about what it would feel like if you were shooting at a person?
In recent days, I've posted a couple of comments about my trip to the range with my daughter. Soooo.....I'm taking some of the credit here!!
Don't forget to access Amazon with the Althouse portal!!
Frankly, I was amazed. Happy to see that you've joined the club.
At some point downstream, you'll handle the weapon as though it were a part of you; an extension of your hand, so to speak. That's when it's easy to hit center-mass FRONT SIGHT FRONT SIGHT....
Only problem you're going to have is procuring ammo.
One more thing: find and read In the Gravest Extreme by Massad Ayoob. It's out there on Amazon. Everything in that book is Required Knowledge for a gun user.
DanTheMan said...
Paul makes me nervous for some reason. Hickok45 for me. :)
I can see that, it's sometimes like watching Spock teach a firearms class.
Hickock's alright, too. Kind of like your garrulous old Uncle who likes guns.
You evil, evil Rethuglican! Next thing you know you'll be on rooftops with racist Korean shop owners, shooting peaceful protesters whose only crime is arson!
I'd like to hear what you thought of the experience. What were your impressions? What positive things did you take away from the experience? What negative ones?
Heavier gun will reduce recoil. I am not fond of Glocks. I consider them less safe than pistols with a safety and less safe still than revolvers.
Great that you gave it a go.
For target shooting a 22 is great fun with near zero kick.
Brava! Exercise those precious, enumerated Constitutional rights!
And now for the answer we've all been waiting for ... better or worse than LSD?
Kyzer SoSay, thank you for this advice. I did notice in the video that Althouse seemed to be suffering from recoil. I don't know if that is due to arm strength or just not being familiar with shooting. It seems like a smaller round aimed accurately might be more effective than a heavier round that goes wild but as I said I am far from an expert. Is stopping power more important than control? I honestly don't know.
Damn, Althouse. Good job. Military instructors say women do better in basic training firearms classes because they're inexperienced and more likely to listen and follow instructions closely.
Don't know if you bought that Glock. They're easy to shoot well but require caution if you're using it for concealed carry. There's no manual safety and that trigger is light! Something like a S&W EZ in 9mm or .380 might be a good choice if you're still shopping. Specifically designed for people with less hand strength, it's easy to load and rack, light trigger but has two safeties (grip and thumb), recoils gently, and has a single-stack grip that might fit smaller hands better.
Forgive me for gunsplainin'. At least I didn't recommend Watership Down or anything.
Good for you!
Every home NEEDS to have a gun and a fire extinguisher, and for the same reason. Guns and fire extinguishers are tools that when you NEED them, nothing else will do the job, and you CANNOT buy one when you need it.
Go to the range occasionally and become comfortable with firing it, so that if you NEED it in a hurry, you won't have to figure out how.
Without reading it, I suspect you'll get all the tips you need in the comments above (and below.)
I'm sure you had a good reason why today was the day. Any desire to share?
Smiling here.
Yay!
Thanks to, I think, Big Mike for suggesting those YouTube videos by a gun guy (Paul something, maybe?) some time back when I mentioned the Remington 870 that we'd picked up.
@Misplaced Pants (2:28), thanks for the shout-out. Paul Harrell’s videos convinced me to change over to bird shot for home defense. He set up two parallel walls using 2x4 lumber and drywall, and showed that 00 (double aught) buckshot went through both walls with enough energy remaining to blow apart a jug of water on the far side of the second wall. There are wonderful young kids next door and in the houses across the street, and I’d hate to have my shotgun pellets go through an intruder, through the wall behind him, through the neighbor’s wall, and injure or kill a kid. If your husband enjoyed Paul Harrell he should really like Hickok45’s channel and videos by Jerry Miculek.
How do you and Mr. Pants like your 870? Have you patterned it yet? I equipped mine with a tactical barrel — 20 inches long and front and rear sights. An exercise I was taught in 1969 in Basic Training was to throw the shotgun to my shoulder and shoot at a target without aiming. You have work at it, but it’s easier with an 870 (to me, YMMV) than any other long gun.
You know it’s time to get into the bunker when even Ann’s picked up a gun!
Thanks to Meade for the excellent camera work!
I love my Glock 19. I couldn't hit anything with a revolver.
But bigger is even better. They used to have a bowling pin fundraiser match here and I got to shoot them with a 1911 .45.
Blam!
Lincolntf said...
"Impressive. My wife has agreed to go to a gun range and shoot a gun for the first time in her life."
In the Navy, I qualified as an "Expert" with the .45. My wife's first husband was an LAPD cop, so shortly after we were married, we were sharing scores. She shoots better than I do. Or did, way back when. We haven't had a chance to go shooting recently; Sacramento County, CA, has been closing the convenient shooting ranges. We'll have to bet back into it after we move to San Antonio, TX, in 2 months.
The Minnow Wrangler said...
"Is stopping power more important than control? I honestly don't know."
Well, obviously, it doesn't matter how powerful the bullet is if it misses the target. So control is definitely critical. But if this was in fact Althouse's first time shooting, then she did darned well. There were at least two holes in the 10 ring. And accuracy comes with practice, as much with firearms as with anything. So keep at it.
Trump wins WI. Trump wins about 40 states. Ann votes for Trump.
The riots changed everything.
Gun control would be dead if you were allowed to have a fair election.
My current carry is a Sig P365
365XL is my current.
Commenters are missing (in my opinion) the important news here. It is not that Althouse fired a gun. It is that Althouse in her late 60s did something new that she had never done before. I'm in the same age bracket, and that caused me to do some self-reflection. If her accomplishment had been "writing a haiku" or "finishing the Sunday crossword without google", the importance would have been similar (well, maybe not the crossword) without being as "political" as shooting.
I see a couple of guesses that it's a Glock 19.
Looks like a Glock 17 to me....a little longer in the grip than a 19. And don't listen to the Glock-naysayers. Reliable, easy to use, not expensive. All 6 of my boys learned to shoot at the range with a Glock 17.
Sadly I lost it a couple of years ago when I forgot it was in my backpack (unloaded, locked in a carrying case) as I went through Seattle airport security. My first time getting arrested and enjoying the criminal justice system.
So, it's your favorite Beatles song...Is Happiness a Warm Gun?
" Is stopping power more important than control?"
Depends on what you mean by "control", honestly.
Assuming you mean "follow-up" control, that is bringing the sights back to target after the first shot, I would say yes in most (defensive) circumstances. Stopping power is more important. After all, depending on the situation, that first shot MIGHT be all you get. Recoil doesn't affect the aim of your first shot (unless it scares you to the point of flinching as you fire), so it's prolly going to be your best shot unless you have plenty of time between firing. It needs to count.
Now, if you have great aim but weak wrists, and feel confident in making double taps to the chest with a .380 ACP or triple-taps with a .32 ACP, then go for it - but one hit from either of those calibers is unlikely to stop an attack unless it's very well aimed. Another factor is that of all the major calibers, the best/most reliable feeding are 9mm and .45 ACP. 9mm has less recoil and more than sufficient stopping power (even in winter, with heavy jackets, if you choose your defensive rounds smartly).
9mm is not perfect, but it's the best combination of power, recoil, price, and reliability on the market today. Almost any firearm is better than no firearm so take that into account. If all you feel comfortable shooting is a .22 target pistol, it's still better than a baseball bat or a kitchen knife. Some attackers will stop at the first shot and flee - but if they don't, at least you're still putting holes in them AT RANGE before any hand-to-hand struggle occurs.
PS - here's a quick plug for Barnes TacXPD 9mm defensive rounds. Test after test, they performed exactly as advertised - both my testing and more scientific testing. Check out LuckyGunner.com - they did a comprehensive ammo evaluation a while back, and posted lots of data (and cool pictures) that show how various rounds in various calibers perform. Their data got me to try the Barnes stuff myself, and sure as shit, it shoots like a beaut. Pricey (and currently unavailable), but it's fed without fail in every gun I've tried it in and is accurate as hell. It IS a "+P" round, which means it's loaded slightly over standard pressure (more gunpowder), but 95% of guns sold today are rated for +P loads - your manual will tell you not to shoot them all the time due to potential premature wear, so just run 1 box of 20 through your gun to ensure it feeds, then keep a loaded mag or two at the ready (and shoot regular round-nose ammo at the range).
1. We do own guns. This was about my being able to use something.
2. We tried 3 different guns. 2 were 9 mm — the Glock and a Smith & Wesson and also a 380 Smith & Wesson.
Thanks for all the compliments!
"365XL is my current."
Excellent choice. As is the P320. Def have a soft spot for Sig, despite not owning one myself. I'd probably go old school and find a P226 if I ever bought one though - something about that pistol is just awesome.
"We do own guns. This was about my being able to use something."
Excellent thinking. A firearm is either a paperweight or a menace if you don't know how to use it.
"We tried 3 different guns. 2 were 9 mm — the Glock and a Smith & Wesson and also a 380 Smith & Wesson."
Guessing the S&W M&P Shield . . . if so, that and the Glock were both excellent choices. Probably the 2 most popular 9mm carry guns today, and for good reason.
I believe that at one time Ann mentioned that one of her favorite pieces of album art was The Beatles’ “Revolver” (it definitely is mine!). Ann, were you subliminally influenced by looking at your mounted art as you were watching the not so peaceful riots on TV recently? Coincidence???? I think not!!!!
It's wonderful to learn a new skill, isn't it? I'm very happy for you.
Awesome!
My dad taught me on his .308, glock and and 357.
I have never owned, however this weak defense of innocent people and property was very disturbing.(i am considering, will go out shooting with the ol man soon)
Nature's panoply of the creature's attest that has a righ5t by choice to defend itself, this use to be......self evident.
Another thing you may have gathered at the shooting range - you will never feel safer than you do while you are there. It is a striking discovery to feel a common bond with all the others there, who believe in self defense and practice it.
Seems like everybody's doing it. After a lot of research I went online to buy one of the guns that seemed suitable only to find they were all sold out. So off to the nearest gun store where, it turns out, veterans can buy "blue label" weapons they reserve for law enforcement, active-duty military and veterans. And with better prices. The Glock 43X cost me less at the retail store than any of the online stores, and no transfer fee.
A couple of days later I discovered that in Virginia, my DD 214 and 15 bucks is all I need to get my concealed carry permit. So I applied for that, too.
Now for some cleaning supplies and time at the range. I haven't fired a handgun since basic training in 1975.
Then maybe a holster? I'm wondering about whether or not I really want to carry. My normal attire is sandals, jeans and a t-shirt that actually fits. Not ideal for concealing, is it? What do other people here do?
Nice job! My husband and I teach firearms training and I love the look on a new shooter's face the first time they realize they've gotten over the fear, and been able to shoot a gun. One of our favorite things to discuss is that a gun is a mechanical device, just like a washing machine, or a pencil sharpener, and once you understand how it works, much of the mystery goes away. Then, once you shoot it, you also know that it's not going to just wander off and magically shoot someone by itself. So comforting, and empowering!
Next up: Hang gliding. A friend of mine did it solo into his 80's.
Also, just a note, lots of women are loving the new Smith and Wesson Shield EZ. We brought one to our last class and the slide is really easy to pull back. Very nice for anyone, really, who has trouble with slide grip.
I think everyone should know how to handle and fire a gun. Even if you don't go back, you have picked up some valuable experience. I myself haven't fired any weapon since 1973, the last time I "qualified" on an M-16, right before I completed my Air Force enlistment. I put "qualified" in quotes because I was stationed on an Army post (my plan to avoid the Army didn't work out too well, but at least I wasn't drafted into the Marines like a friend of mine) and the qualification consisted of going to the range and taking a dozen or shots at a target. No training on cleaning, loading, etc. - we air force guys were considered one step above children by the range grunts. But I have to admit I am planning on buying an AR-15 type in the next couple weeks.
I should have commented earlier. That was the very first thing that came to my mind.
I bet Meade keeps sniffing her fingers tonight.
When your woman smells like gunpowder..........
I am Laslo.
Then maybe a holster? I'm wondering about whether or not I really want to carry. My normal attire is sandals, jeans and a t-shirt that actually fits. Not ideal for concealing, is it? What do other people here do?
If you're not willing to change up with CCW garb like a vest...try a fanny pack. With the sandals you should be able to pull it off.
"Smith and Wesson Shield EZ"
Check out the Walther CCP. Same capacity as the Shield EZ, 3oz less in weight, and also designed to be easy to load mags and rack the slide. I know I've been saying heavier is better for steadiness, but if that's just a "starting out" issue that gets ironed out after a trip or two, weight matters if carry is a concern. That 3oz could be the difference between deciding to carry that day or not.
Also, important note, whatever weapon you choose for HOME DEFENSE, ensure it can mount a weapon light - and that you then buy a weapon light to mount. Don't go crazy. Perfectly good lights can be had on Amazon for under $40, many with rechargeable batteries. Check it each Sunday night to ensure it is working and bright. For carry, a light is not as important, but still not a bad idea. Many lights also come with a laser sight - YMMV. They're useful, but once you get it dialed in (which can be a struggle), you kinda need to keep it mounted unless you get a fancy QD type mounting plate.
"I think everyone should know how to handle and fire a gun."
Preach! I laughed when I saw the video of the Antifa clown attempting to steal the AR from the burning cop car in MN. Dude had no idea what to do with it - and thankfully so, because seconds later he had a Glock in his face as a private security guard relieved him of his ill-gotten gain.
Good for you, Althouse.
I have a million questions. But then, why? Why the questions?
What has happened to society when something as benign and pedistrian as shooting up a box of ammo at the range generates such emotional responses?
Hitting a bucket of balls, going geo caching, learning how to turn a piece on a lathe, taking a masters class in writing. There are hundreds of new experiences that are un-exceptional. But some time handling a gun? Our culture has devolved to such a point, a simple gun experience is like the moon walk.
DanTheMan said...
Make sure you understand what short stroking ("short shucking") is, and how it can instantly lock up your shotgun and make it useless.
In my (limited) experience, this is usually something women are more likely to do than me
As an aside, while serving as an Army officer, I considered joining the FBI. They had discovered data analysis, and were expanding their candidate pool beyond lawyers and accountants. Anyway, 35 years ago, part of the application was a firearms test. Not a shooting test but sort of a PT test, I suspect to weed out women.
3 events.
1, hold a 30.06 rifle on target, standing for 2 min.
2. pump a 12 gauge as many times as you could in 30 seconds
3. dry fire a 38 special, as many times as you could in 30 sec
"Never heard of this "weapon." Sounds like a good idea for defense but still not as effective as a 9mm or .38."
My comment above was totally wrong. I was looking at the frame next to Althouse after she completed firing and it showed a ByrnaHD Pepper Ball Gun. I mistakenly thought it was what the professor was using. My bad.
Great work, your 3rd shot was a bulls-eye, no wonder you had the big grin.
You should have then aimed slightly left and blazed away at your neighbour's target.
one last lesson, that as a lawyer I suspect you know. If you ever have to use that gun remember these words.
Officer, he said he was going to kill us. I was afraid for my life. I'm really shaken up. I'd like to talk to my lawyer...
on a less serious note:
1. Bring a gun. Preferably, bring at least two guns. Bring all of your friends who have guns.
2. Anything worth shooting is worth shooting twice. Ammo is cheap – life is expensive.
3. Only hits count. The only thing worse than a miss is a slow miss.
4. If your shooting stance is good, you’re probably not moving fast enough or using cover correctly.
5. Move away from your attacker. Distance is your friend. (Lateral and diagonal movement are preferred.)
6. If you can choose what to bring to a gunfight, bring a long gun and a friend with a long gun.
7. In ten years nobody will remember the details of caliber, stance, or tactics. They will only remember who lived.
8. If you are not shooting, you should be communicating, reloading, and running.
9. Accuracy is relative: most combat shooting standards will be more dependent on “pucker factor” than the inherent accuracy of the gun. Use a gun that works EVERY TIME. “All skill is in vain when an Angel blows the powder from the flintlock of your musket.”
10. Someday someone may kill you with your own gun, but they should have to beat you to death with it because it is empty.
11. Always cheat, always win. The only unfair fight is the one you lose.
12. Have a plan.
13. Have a back-up plan, because the first one won’t work.
14. Use cover or concealment as much as possible.
15. Flank your adversary when possible. Protect yours.
16. Don’t drop your guard.
17. Always tactical load and threat scan 360 degrees.
18. Watch their hands. Hands kill. (In God we trust. Everyone else, keep your hands where I can see them.)
19. Decide to be aggressive ENOUGH, quickly ENOUGH.
20. The faster you finish the fight, the less shot you will get.
21. Be polite. Be professional. But, have a plan to kill everyone you meet.
22. Be courteous to everyone, friendly to no one.
23. Your number one option for personal security is a lifelong commitment to avoidance, deterrence, and de-escalation.
24. Do not attend a gun fight with a handgun, the caliber of which does not start with anything smaller than “4”.
25. You can’t miss fast enough to win.
Next time ask them to put up the target for shooting the assailant in the leg.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjI70js6YbU
Beauty and the Beast
@Jeff, I gradually stopped carrying once I moved out to a rural county in the Shenandoah Valley. I just don't feel unsafe out here, although the riots on TV are making me feel at least a little uneasy these days.
I wear my shirts tucked in, so pocket carry or ankle carry for me back when I did carry. Pocket carry means a small gun, like a .32 ACP, however I'm a pretty good shot and not concerned about stopping power. A round through the bridge of the nose will stop about anyone. Guys who wear their shirts untucked (like the Hawaiian shirts that Althouse fears so much) generally carry inside the waistband. If you're in this category you should think about an inside the waistband holster and your question becomes where. Worn on the side of the hip there is apt to be a bulge, giving you away. Some guys wear their gun in the small of the back, so they can reach it with either hand, but if you fall then you'd better remember to twist to the side or you're apt to crack a vertebrae. "Appendix carry" with the holster in the right front is popular these days, but if you're prone to an AD (accidental discharge, for folks who aren't up on gun slang) then you might emasculate yourself. Lots of choices, but none perfect.
The main reason why a newborn baby would smile while passing gas is relief. Before a babt passes gas, his lower colon and rectum are distended. After he passes gas, he feels relief because these organs are no longer distended.
----------==========
this could explain the smile also - AA being anosmia Meade need to color commentate
@Drill SGT, your wise comment crossed mine. Good advice, Sir. (Oops, you work for a living. Sorry.)
Adding to what he wrote, three things. Most important, if you have a sense that something is not right, then GET THE HELL OUT OF THERE. There really is such a thing as a sixth sense, and you need to trust it. It's your brain picking up a bunch of small things that you don't consciously notice, but it correlates them and reaches a conclusion that you would be better off elsewhere. Maybe three guys on the periphery of your vision are looking at you too hard and two peel off so that they surround you. Whatever. The best gun fight is the one that never takes place. Behind it, and well behind it at that, is a gun fight you survive. Third ... let's not go there.
And a while back, I will try to find the link, I read a piece written by a defensive handgun instructor. Most of his students were never in gun fights, never had to defend their life with lethal force. That's a good thing. Two of his students died in gun fights. They were unarmed at the time. The remaining students survived their gun fights. Of those gun fights where his students found themselves to be unwilling participants but eventual survivors, the typical range between the shooters was about 7 yards. The number of rounds expended was low, often one or two.
I am late to this party I know. Has the semi-auto vs. revolver thing been covered yet? I am all about revolvers - once I had a couple of semi-autos jam on me at the range that was it for me. GOD I hate loading magazines for semi-auto handguns. Call me a wimp - I'd rather load revolver chambers. Ann if you hate the mechanics of the semi-auto, try a revolver. Ruger makes a fine, nice light .38. Just sayin'....
SO has a .9mm Glock and .357 Magnum - have shot both. I can live without shooting the .357 again - just too much for me!
@DBQ, Althouse was having issues controlling the recoil from a 9mm using a two-hand grip and isosceles stance. Do you really think she could handle the recoil from a even a 20 gauge?
Bang Bang. Aim for center mass if you have to. But it's good that you are getting decent training. And it's sad that this sort of training may be necessary.
The thing I don't like about semiautomatics for new shooters is that they can jam and then you are holding an expensive paperweight in the middle of a gun fight. I prefer revolvers, which hardly ever jam. (I did jam a Taurus .44 Special, though, so it isn't impossible!) Cons are much slower reloading and limited number of rounds.
If you are more experienced and have an opportunity to be trained how to clear jams -- and opportunities to practice clearing jams -- then semiautomatics are easier to conceal, carry more rounds, have a faster cycle time (time between successive shots), and reload vastly faster.
I was taking a class in defensive handgun shooting, and was the only revolver shooter in the class. At the break a Glock owner told me that I should change to a Glock because they "never" jam. Well, I had heard about fanatical Glock owners, and figured I had just then met one, but by the end of the night only he and I had not had to clear a jam in the middle of a firing sequence. Just a point of information. By mostly shooting single action I was able to swap speed for accuracy in my firing sequences. I did miss a few head shots, but on one of them I would have clipped the guy's ear and I suspect it would have discombobulated him plenty.
@Althouse, my third piece of advice that I forgot to give. If your opponent is a guy, go for groin shot and emasculate the summbeech.
Good for you professor for deciding to try your hand at shooting. I hope you enjoyed the experience and will continue to develop this new skill.
Ignore all the advice AA. Be like Trump and just proclaim it was the greatest display of rookie shooting in history.
Love you Ann! Just said tonight that I want to take gun training- you are my inspiration!
Punching small holes in pieces of paper,
Me and my thirty aught six.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OrmBAXVjp1s
Based Althouse. I like it.
Awesome! Now that you have your first shots under your belt, I recommended getting some training, such as at an NRA Women on Target class. A WoT class is geared towards women and is very low-key and low-pressure. It will get you dialed in with proper technique and appropriate fundamentals without the testosterone and braggadocio that that can come in a class full of men. Once you’ve done that, I recommend getting away from the indoor range and the plinking mindset and explore the matches that your local clubs offer. There’s a huge a variety of challenging and fun shooting sports, from silhouette to trap and skeet to steel challenge to benchrest to bullseye to bowling pins...and so much more! Within those sports I would strongly consider seeking out a local International Defensive Pistol (IDPA) club and checking out one of their matches. Then give it a try! The emphasis in IDPA is on real-world gun use, such as drawing from cover and shooting a variety of targets in various scenarios. Your score is a combination of your speed and accuracy so it’s a great test of how well you shoot under pressure. There’s no better training than that...and you’ll never meet a more welcoming group of shooters. Good luck!
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