June 21, 2020

"A community college professor in Oakland, Calif., is on administrative leave after asking a Vietnamese-American student to 'Anglicize' her name because he felt it sounded 'offensive' in English."

You may wonder, what was the student's name? It was Phuc. With experience, the professor now knows that he should have simply risen above any childish distraction and said the name forthrightly.

The article is "Professor Who Asked Student to ‘Anglicize’ Her Name Is Put on Leave/Matthew Hubbard, a mathematics professor in Oakland, Calif., said his emails to Phuc Bui Diem Nguyen, a Vietnamese-American college freshman, were both a 'mistake' and 'offensive.'"

Notice that he went beyond saying tell me how to say your name correctly. He used the word "Anglicize":
“I never heard that before,” she said. “At that moment I was surprised, so I Googled the meaning — I didn’t know what it meant, so I called my best friend to ask him, ‘What does that mean?’”...

“The first email was a mistake, and I made it thinking about another student willing to Anglicize,” Professor Hubbard said. “But it’s a big difference with someone doing it voluntarily and asking someone to do it. The second email is very offensive, and if I had waited eight hours, I would’ve written something very different.”
The second email — after she'd told him that it "feels discriminatory" and she was going to file a complaint — said "I understand you are offended, but you need to understand your name is an offensive sound in my language."

Nguyen had previously, for years, used the nickname May. But then she decided she wanted to use her real name — which means “happiness blessing.”

86 comments:

Dave Begley said...

WTF? WTP?

William said...

A girl named Phuc. Definitely a happiness blessing. Does it occur to her that there might be other people in America, less nuanced than a mathematics professor, who might snicker at her name? She sounds like someone who's actively soliciting grievances.

madAsHell said...

Why the Phuc not?

Sorry!! I do sophomoric really well.

Char Char Binks, Esq. said...

Happiness is a warm Phuc Bui

madAsHell said...

The proper response would have been to anglicize the spelling, Fuck.

Ann Althouse said...

"Does it occur to her..."

How on earth could it not have "occurred" to her?

She knows, but she wants to use her real name.

Ann Althouse said...

The professor would have to have been an idiot to think he was giving her new info about the sound of her name. It really does come across as harassment.

HoodlumDoodlum said...

Phuc Boi sound like "fuck boy."

Urban dictionary: fuckboy

Slate: What does fuckboy mean?

NotWhoIUsedtoBe said...

Dumb. My last name is a problem for a lot of people, too.

Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...

she should sue, take over the school

and name it Phuc U.

langford peel said...

Does she carry around a mattress?

effinayright said...

Check out this Australian driver's license.

https://tinyurl.com/ybl296pm

Imagine going through life what that name.

walter said...

she wanted to use her real name — which means “happiness blessing.”
--
Phuc yeah!

"It really does come across as harassment."
Yep. Especially when she raises her hand the prof points toward her and says "Phuc?"

Kevin said...

But then she decided she wanted to use her real name — which means “happiness blessing.”

In America it currently means "President".

Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...

Russell Peters (Indian comedian) has a riff on ethnic names

Skip to 4:10

Ken B said...

There's an old Monty python skit about a guy named Smoketoomuch.

However, I wonder how Ann, as a prof, would have handled a name like Nigar. Not I think with perfect aplomb. So let’s not be too harsh. He made an error, and has apologized.

Mark said...

The person who deserves the blame is the one who butchered the translation of the Vietnamese alphabet to the Latin alphabet.

We English speakers have a tendency to want to pronounce things phonetically, but to do that with Vietnamese is to get it wrong often.

This is what one website says about pronouncing "Phuc" --

There are many words in Vietnamese that end with –oc or –uc, and it blew our minds when we found out that the c is not pronounced like a c, but rather as a p . . . Phuc is pronounced as Phoop
https://theculturetrip.com/asia/vietnam/articles/11-commonly-mispronounced-places-in-vietnam/

narciso said...

you would use the long u sound, I guess,

RK said...

And "chunks" sounds similar to racial slur of Asians. Is this your theme today?

Ken B said...

Common names
Dick
Rod
Roger
Peter

jaydub said...

"Fuck" in English can sometimes be interpreted as happiness blessing as well.

Fernandinande said...

He used the word "Anglicize":

It is the correct word for the situation.

My own last name has been Anglicized, and sometimes I'd like to Anglicize it a bit more because it takes everybody at three times to spell it correctly even though it's quite short - people just can't believe those letters are in that order.

after she'd told him that it "feels discriminatory" and she was going to file a complaint

Well, she's already thoroughly Americanized.

He should've just let other people laugh at her stupid name, but now he knows that no good deed goes unpunished.

Anonymous said...

Pronounced "Fook" "Buoy"

Fernandinande said...

But then she decided she wanted to use her real name — which means “happiness blessing.”

It might mean that in Vietnam, which she isn't in.

Google and Bing translators both say that phuc means phuc in English, although "phục", with a weird 'u', means "apparel".

Rob said...

And the horse he rode in on.

Dr Weevil said...

Is Phuc actually pronounced like 'fuck'? I don't think so. It's only been a couple of years since a Vietnamese-Australian had the whole world giggling about his name, which was Phuc Dat Bich. He put a picture of his driver's license on the web to show that that was his real name, after Facebook (I think it was) refused to open an account for him, saying it was obviously fake. To get to the point, I believe he said it's actually pronounced something like Foo Dah Bick, that is, the last letters of all three names are silent, which means it doesn't sound offensive at all if you know how to say it.
Along the same lines, the late lamented (and CIA-subsidized) English journal Encounter had a language column that once talked about the Foreign Minister of South Korea, Lee Bum Suk, who was touring the U.K. All but one of the Englishmen he dealt with pronounced it 'Boom Sook'. As he was leaving, he thanked his host for kindly pronouncing it correctly, as 'Bum Suck'. The last words of the article gave his host's name, which was (I believe) Lord Cockfield.

rhhardin said...

Quang Phuc Dong is the pseudonym of James McCawley, a linguistics guy, for investigations of taboo words, like "Sentences without overt grammatical subject," arguing that "fuck" is not a verb.

rcocean said...

Yep. She wasn't just off the boat from Saigon. She's a Vietnamese american and a law student. He deserves to be put on leave for offensive stupidity. Plus, her name is not pronounced FUCK in Vietnamese.

I assume the Professor is a Liberal Democrat, and therefore felt he had the right to be offensive, because they always do.

Pookie Number 2 said...

The professor would have to have been an idiot to think he was giving her new info about the sound of her name. It really does come across as harassment.

Does the English language now lack a word for something stupid that need not be career-ending?

Lucien said...

How is this newsworthy, except for the stupidity of some community college administrator? The professor was dumb to make the request and the student was dumb to complain to someone else about it — but she’s a college student. A minor cold on both their houses.
If only colleges were places where people learn how to be adults: “You may call me Ms. Nguyen” would have been sufficient. (Why do people need to be on a first name basis with strangers anyway?)

Ken B said...

Fernandistain
“My own last name has been Anglicized, and sometimes I'd like to Anglicize it a bit more because it takes everybody at three times to spell it correctly even though it's quite short - people just can't believe those letters are in that order.”

Not me. I have always thought you were a Künt.

ddh said...

It's not a completely new problem in America, as Mary Fuchs could tell you.

Sebastian said...

Maybe P..c should be the next name of Musk's kid.

Or F.U.All?

jaydub said...

Reminds me of the old joke about the young Indian boy and his father sitting on the top of a mesa and surveying the expanse below. The boy, in a pensive mood, asks the father "how does our tribe decide on names?" The father replied "In our tribe a child is usually named after the first event in nature that the father sees after the birth. Your grandfather first saw a deer prancing thorough the forest, so your mother came to be known as "Prancing Doe." My father looked up and saw an eagle in the sky, and I became "Soaring Eagle." "Anyway," said the father, "Why do you ask, Two-Dogs-Humping?"

Larvell said...

It comes across as harassing to people wanting to join the club of the harassed. We all know those people, they are perpetually acting aggrieved and filing complaints. To normal people, it’s a funny story that should result in a laugh and a “no big deal.” Alas, normal people are not in charge anymore.

FullMoon said...

the word "Anglicize":

“I never heard that before,” she said. “At that moment I was surprised, so I Googled the meaning — I didn’t know what it meant, so I called my best friend to ask him, ‘What does that mean?’”


College freshman didn't know and could not figure it out. Most distressing part of story

William said...

There's a downside to being named Phuc. She used to call herself May. Well, she's out of high school now so maybe she thinks it's safe to come out as Phuc..... There's also a downside to telling someone that Phuc is a stupid name but only if you're a college professor. As Phuc proudly awakens Americans to the inherent dignity of her name, I wonder who else she will call out. There's a whole big world out there, and lots of the people who inhabit it never finished high school. She's going out her way to find bigots but only bigots of a certain stripe.

Narayanan said...

anglicize >>> change spelling to FUCK? (FUCT is now trademark)

TML said...

https://www.improbable.com/2011/09/13/dr-shit-fun-chew-undersung-scientist/

Narayanan said...

‘Phuc Dat Bitch’, whose name is actually pronounced Phoo Da Bic
-------==========
so Phuc is sounded as Phoo

madAsHell said...

Her children will be a ready made Abbott and Costello routine.

"No, Whathe Fuck is on first. Whothe Fuck is on second!?"

Magson said...

A common last name in India is "Dikshit." It's often transliterated as "Dixit" anymore, but I've spoken with people who use the 1st spelling also. I've had a client whose name was Deepa Ashit. Wanna Sugreekunt was a fascinating guy. I've also known a woman named Damit (pronouced duh-meet) who we'd tease with silly easy jokes like "Nice to meet you, Dammit!" and the like.

I grew up with a Vietnamese kid named Hung Duong. Yes, we teased him a lot. He told us that it's actually pronounced more like "Hong Yoong" but we still went with the spelling we saw in front of us anyway, and he just smiled and ran with it. Awesome guy.

Names simply "are." I don't see any need to anglicize them or anything.

Magson said...

FWIW, "Wir suchen dich!" is how a German says "We're looking for you!" as in "Now Hiring!"

Sure looks funny in English though...

chuck said...

“happiness blessing.” Well, there you go.

Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...

our upscale background would not allow us to be quite as crude

...so we named our kid Efward.

He gets along great with his adopted brother from Somalia, Enward.

DanTheMan said...

A PhD in mathematics with no people skills? I'm shocked.

Math majors were far and away the weirdest weirdos on campus, at least in my experience.

But he was doomed regardless. If he called her "Fuck" in class, it would not be long before he was reported to the Diversity Czar for bullying a Person of Color.

Jupiter said...

"The professor would have to have been an idiot to think he was giving her new info about the sound of her name. It really does come across as harassment."

It does not. It comes off as him not wanting to spend the whole term addressing a young woman in his class as Fuck. What comes off as harassment is this;

“I never heard that before,” she said. “At that moment I was surprised, so I Googled the meaning — I didn’t know what it meant, so I called my best friend to ask him, ‘What does that mean?’”...

Right. She lives in one of those vast expanses of the American interior where no one ever uses the word "fuck". Even after she googled it, she couldn't quite get her mind around it. So she asked her best friend, but he had never heard it either. Finally they found an old woman who had studied Jive in the Big City. She was able to explain it to them. "Oh, yes. That is a Jive verb, meaning 'harm' or 'injure'. 'Ima phuc you up, bitch!'"

readering said...

Mathematics. On the spetrum?

Spiros said...

Coming to the United States is a profoundly transforming event. Your life changes in many, many ways. Why shouldn't the New World's culture influence your name as well? For example, "Sullivan" is the anglicized version of Súileabháin, which means "dark eyed" in Gaelic! "Kennedy" is derived from Ceannéidigh or "ugly head." These people (along with the Italians) aren't complaining about racism (anymore).

tim maguire said...

The professor should have acted like an adult and pronounced her name correctly and not made a big deal of it. But his transgression was minor, her complaint petty. It’s ridiculous that he was suspended over it.

Kevin said...

What the heck was wrong with “Ms Nguyen?”

LA_Bob said...

Jupiter said, "It does not. It comes off as him not wanting to spend the whole term addressing a young woman in his class as Fuck."

He didn't have to call her "Fuck". He might have asked her how she pronounces her name. He might have offered to call her "Nguyen" (roughly pronounced "win").

As dumb as she was about "Anglicize", he has to have been living under a rock not to have encountered any Vietnamese students before. But, if not, he might have sought some guidance from someone who has.

This is not the kind of thing which should be handled via email. And he really shouldn't have been put on leave either.

tim maguire said...

We should celebrate our mistakes" says one resident of Florence, Oregon... who obviously doesn’t live in America in 2020.

navillus said...

One wonders how often the professor had asked past students to change 'Dick,' 'Rod,' 'Johnson,' or 'Beaver.'
Going out on a limb, but my guess is zero?

Eleanor said...

He could have just decided to call of his students by their last names that semester like Professor Kingsfield.

RK said...

In German class, we giggled when we had to say fahrt.

Smerdyakov said...

Dan the man,
I doubt this dope has a PhD in mathematics. A student on Rate My Professor has him teaching trigonometry. I didn't know trigowas a college course. Few rate his classes as difficult.

Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...

What the heck was wrong with “MsNguyen?”

that's Vietnamese slang for 'fuck'.

rcocean said...

BTW, this man is Oakland aka SF Bay area. Do a google and see how many Asians and Vietnamese live there. I find it hard to believe he just started doing this to help her out.

Jaq said...

Math professor, quelle surprise.

Balfegor said...

I did the reverse -- through college, I used my Korean name exclusively, but midway through law school, I decided that since I was mostly dealing with English-speakers, it would make sense to use my English name professionally, and I have done ever since (although I do sometimes use my Korean name in Korea, and I use it for monograms on my clothes, bag, etc.). That seems to me like the sensible thing to do, and the reverse seems perverse.

That said, if 福 is her legal name, I suppose I can understand her decision. It's what will show up on her diploma, her bar registration, etc.

Balfegor said...

Haha wait she's just a freshman, not a law student. Anyhow, would still be the name on her diploma, but doesn't present the same issues as bar registration.

Michael K said...

Ann Althouse said...
The professor would have to have been an idiot to think he was giving her new info about the sound of her name. It really does come across as harassment.


It comes across as a nice guy who was trying to help a little bitch who, in the third generation, has forgotten why she is here and not in Hanoi or buried in a rice paddy.

Joe Bar said...

Much LOLs on this. We had a guy named Phuc Ngo. Was kind of a running joke. He was a great guy, and took my spot when I left.

n.n said...

Krup.

Mal said...

"Mal. 'Bad.' In the Latin."

- River Tam, The Train Job (Firefly)

daskol said...

I think the name is pronounced somewhere between "folk" and "fook" rather than fuck.

Bunkypotatohead said...

Well, it will be pronounced "Karen" from here on.

The Godfather said...

"If he called her "Fuck" in class, it would not be long before he was reported to the Diversity Czar for bullying a Person of Color."

I don't think she qualifies. She's Asian. Whatever her skin tone, she's not entitled to POC benefits. I think this should be treated as one Person of Pallor (POP) mistreating another POP. The Prof loses because he's male and in a position of power, and she's a female POP and a student.

Michael K said...

I prefer those Asian Airlines pilots, Wei tu lo, Ho lee Pfuc and Bang ding ou.

DavidUW said...

I had a phuc in a class I taught at UC Berkeley. She was great.

NKP said...

"It comes across as a nice guy who was trying to help a little bitch who, in the third generation, has forgotten why she is here and not in Hanoi or buried in a rice paddy."

Lot of assumptions in the above statement. All ugly.

Attempts at "humor" on this thread will support this young woman's complaint if this ends up in court. I support most of the thoughtful contributors on this BLOG, including Michael K. but it's hard to 'walk the walk' if we keep shooting our self in the foot.

Peace

Readering said...

Spiros, cute. As someone with three out of 4 grandparents with Irish surnames, I can say that colonialism anglicized the names many generations ago. Why should Vietnamese have to do same?

Unknown said...

As penance college should change name

PHUC U

Readering said...

Michael k losing it. Maybe he got the word from today's Lincoln Project ad for Biden.
Works better against male POtUS than female teen.

PluralThumb said...

What the heck was wrong with “MsNguyen?”

that's Vietnamese slang for 'fuck'.

That slang word may be a blessing or happiness.
( For both parties respectably )
With much responsibility after hense, that word becomes passed tense.
More like ' fook ' aka once upon a time...

Lost in translation. Also assumtions get in the way.

If her nickname was May, that can mean she is a blessing to her parents as Spring is to new life. The girl didn't undrstand the instructions. I can sympothize. I went a whole year in 5th grade failing spelling tests on Fridays. I simply was not aware that the words were on the board on Mondays until a classmate made that connection for me. Anyway, anglesize is some kind of down ward dog yoga position ?

Tom said...

I once was given the assignment at a major pharma company to great a colleague from Thailand at the airport and to also instruct her she’d be called Tina during her visit. Her actual name was Tittiporn. I’m guessing the fact that I was 25 and fresh out of grad school was how I drew that assignment.

PluralThumb said...

On the other hand, my mother in-law could not say hell without the h.e. double hockey sticks. I'd tell the girl her new Nickname is Puck and if she doesn't like the name she can leave my classroom.
Or learn to play hockey ?

Balfegor said...

Re: Readering:

Spiros, cute. As someone with three out of 4 grandparents with Irish surnames, I can say that colonialism anglicized the names many generations ago. Why should Vietnamese have to do same?

Why not? If you have a name like Maebh, Siobhan, Daithi, or Niamh, you don't have to Anglicise the spelling, but you'd better be prepared for 99% of the people you meet in the US to pronounce your name wrong. In fairness, though, there are English names that pose the same problem today, e.g. Cholmondeley or Beauchamp or Menzies (well, Scottish).

So it's less about Anglicising as such, and more about adapting to and being considerate of the people around you. That could involving changing your name and its spelling, on the one hand, or just having the common decency to accept and accommodate people who have trouble with your name, on the other.

tcrosse said...

It was common to anglicize the surname Fuchs to Fox.

Douglas B. Levene said...

I teach law to graduate law students in China. Ten year ago, most of our students had and used English names for their law classes taught in English (every student in China picks an English name to use in their English classes, which they all take). Now only a few do. I guess that's easier for them, but it means that I only rarely remember their names. That's a loss for both of us.

Some of their English names were pretty funny. There was the lovely young woman who insisted on being called "Fight." Then there was the young man who called himself "Dolphin." He changed it to something more conventional after doing an exchange program in Brazil. But whatever their English names were, it was a lot easier for me to remember them.

No one has to use conventional English names in the US. It's a free country. But it sure makes life easier if you do.

Unknown said...

This is one of the funniest posts on Althouse I've ever seen. This is it, right here. Sitcom material. Did Seinfeld ever do an episode regarding this matter? On a serious note: At what point does it become a nuisance for the entire class? If other students are complaining, does the entire class have to subjugate themselves for the wishes of one student? I really think the teacher was trying to consider the entire class. If it was just one-on-one instruction, then it would be different. I'm curious how Althouse would handle this. Would you be comfortable addressing this student several times, if it were your class? As a teacher you wouldn't find her wishes to be a distraction? A nuisance is still a nuisance whether it's inadvertent or not, no matter how hilarious.

Known Unknown said...

This is news?

The Vault Dweller said...

I'm generally of the opinion that if someone doesn't intend offense by something no offense should be taken, and it is foolish to indulge those that take offense. Obviously using one's actual name would fall in that category. Something tells me that if the young lady's name for whatever reason was easily confused with the N-word, the school would have the opposite reaction.

veni vidi vici said...

In one of the only cases where a court did not grant a petition to change one's name, a militant Black activist in California sought to change his name to "Misteri N*gger", where the "i" after Mister was said to be silent.

The court refused his petition, essentially telling him, "Nice try but we're not taking the bait."

I'd love to meet that guy and shake his hand. Talk about moxie!

Tinderbox said...

I work with a guy by that name, and it's pronounced FOOK, not the other.