May 3, 2020

"In the short time beginning on May 1, 2020, that face coverings have been required for entry into stores/restaurants, store employees have been threatened with physical violence and showered with verbal abuse."

Said Stillwater City Manager Norman McNickle, quoted in "Oklahoma city ends face mask rule for shoppers after store employees are threatened" (NBC).

The city government made the rule, but it was left to workers in stores and restaurants to do the enforcement, so they were the ones who got the abuse from citizens who didn't like the rule. Apparently, there were threats of violence against the employees, so the city abandoned the rule.

When I first read that headline, I thought the problem was that people in masks were threatening violence, and the mask rule was ended so the malefactors could be identified. But, no, citizens intent on showing their face were going ahead and threatening violence.

I wonder what kind of a place Stillwater is. Wikipedia:
The north-central region of Oklahoma became part of the United States with the Louisiana Purchase in 1803. In 1832, author and traveler Washington Irving provided the first recorded description of the area around Stillwater in his book A Tour on the Prairies. He wrote of “a glorious prairie spreading out beneath the golden beams of an autumnal sun. The deep and frequent traces of buffalo, showed it to be a one of their favorite grazing grounds.”
According to one legend, local Native American tribes — Ponca, Kiowa, Osage, Pawnee — called the creek “Still Water” because the water was always still. A second legend states that cattlemen driving herds from Texas to railways back east always found water "still there". A third legend holds that David L. Payne walked up to Stillwater Creek and said, “This town should be named Still Water”. Members of the board thought he was crazy, but the name stuck.

Stillwater Creek received its official name in 1884 when William L. Couch established his “boomer colony” on its banks. While the creek itself was tranquil, the next few years saw turmoil as pioneers sought free, fertile land and soldiers held them off while complicated legal issues and land titles with Creek and Seminole tribes were hashed out....
I like that Washington Irving showed up. And the term "boomer colony."

AND: About those boomers:
"Boomers" is the name given to settlers in the Southern United States who attempted to enter the Unassigned Lands in what is now the state of Oklahoma in 1879, prior to President Grover Cleveland opening them to settlement by signing the Indian Appropriations Act of 1889 on March 2, 1889. The Sooners, settlers who entered the Unassigned Lands just prior to the April 22, 1889 official opening, were preceded by Boomers by a decade.

The term "Boomer," in relation to Oklahoma, refers to participants in the "Boomer Movement." These participants were white settlers who believed the Unassigned Lands were public property and open to anyone for settlement, not just Indian tribes. Their belief was based on a clause in the Homestead Act of 1862 which said that any settler could claim 160 acres (0.65 km2; 0.25 sq mi) of "public land." Some Boomers entered the Unassigned Lands and were removed more than once by the United States Army....

201 comments:

1 – 200 of 201   Newer›   Newest»
Oso Negro said...

With government-causes 20% unemployment, you get a hostile citizenry.

alanc709 said...

Workers of the world, UNITE. You have nothing to lose but your chains.

whitney said...

Saying masks are neccessary is fake and gay

I Have Misplaced My Pants said...

Ventured to Walmart yesterday and while it was entry controlled and packed, maybe half the people had masks, and of those a portion, including many employees, wore them wildly incorrectly. It’s already in the 90s in south Texas. The masks will peter out within a week, maybe two.

I Have Misplaced My Pants said...

Every stall at Sonic was full and there were probably 15 cars in the drive through; stuck it out for my Diet Coke and the girl at the window has hers pulled down over her chin.

If we can make it through another couple of weeks without a spike of hospitalizations and/or deaths, this thing can be put to bed, at least for us down here.

iowan2 said...

Stupid me. Thinking politicians understood laws, rules, mandates, edicts, etc, handed down to the commoners only work when the vast majority of those commoners buy into them. VAST majority...99%+ This is so simple, I can't grasp a governor shocked closing beaches will be met with complete lawlessness

Wince said...

I wonder what kind of a place Stillwater is.

Still wonder about... Stillwater!

Browndog said...

I can't say it enough-

Fight the masks. Fight them now, or you'll never be able to take them off.

Unknown said...

Seems Stillwater is not

a SUBMISSIVE place

rhhardin said...

Masks are a good idea in that they reduce the reinfection rate. If it falls to less than 1.0 then the virus disappears on its own, without herd immunity. Maybe it's not been explained properly.

Anthony said...

My neighbor called to cancel his Costco membership because of their stupid mask rule coming up. Their phone lines are either shut down or jammed.

Unless you’re sick and actively shedding they’re pointless. People either don’t know that or are just virtue signaling. I know at least one person is doing the latter. No, two. Plus all of the companies making their employees wear them.

I made the mistake of looking through NextDoor the other day. The Mask Stasi are out in force.

Tcdq1293 said...

I love the masks. Not the medical type, but the novel ones. I believe they are illegal in NYC. Now it's a new accessory.

M Jordan said...

Wore a mask for the first time at Costco yesterday. Ugh. It was an N95 construction mask I had bought years ago. It was hot, uncomfortable, and smelled off-gassy every breath I took in. I hated it. If I thought it had any real value I would just endure but I know it’s mostly symbolic, providing scared governors a face-saving (ironic, eh?) exit from the ridiculous, unproven, unscientific, illiberal lockdown they have imposed on us. I get that we had to do something, but when politicians are in Do Something mode and given a free pass, they always Do Everything wrong. The correct answer all along was the 15 day guidelines from Pence’s team, a soft approach of social distancing.

I Have Misplaced My Pants said...

Hardin, they can’t do that if they’re not being used properly, and if they’re not used properly they are pointless, and maybe worse than pointless. Damp warm cloth next to your breathing holes for hours. And many people are not clean in their habits so they can hardly be expected to be conscientious about mask hygiene.

William said...

I live in NYC. Everybody wears a mask while shopping and everybody keeps their distance. In the drugstores and the supermarkets, the cashiers are behind plexiglass shields.....I go for my walks late at night because I don't like to wear a mask while outdoors. There are only a few people on the street, and they mostly all wear masks. When they see I'm not wearing a mask,some cross the street. I just don't think the disease is spread by unmasked strangers who walk by each other in the great outdoors, but that's the prevalent fear. i think behavior here has irrevocably changed.

Josephbleau said...

Stillwater is the home of Oklahoma State U, so even though you consider it to be the Wild West, there is a significant lefty tinged academic content to the population that is respected in the town. I went to a conference there years ago.

I Callahan said...

I’m not buying this story. Sounds way too much like the media “those flyover hicks are acting like hicks again” narrative to be believable. One or two people probably complained; the mayor used it as an opportunity to get on his soapbox.

Doesn’t pass the smell test.

rhhardin said...

Any mask cuts down the reinfection rate. It doesn't have to be medical-professional perfect. You're not going for zero, you're going for less than 1.0.

I Callahan said...

Josephbleau - that makes even more sense. Lefty town, Dem mayor, uses his position to scold those few people who dare question his decree.

Big Mike said...

And the term "boomer colony."

Not our kind of Boomers, dear.

Browndog said...

rhhardin said...

Any mask cuts down the reinfection rate. It doesn't have to be medical-professional perfect. You're not going for zero, you're going for less than 1.0.


Feel free to link the study that backs your assertion.

Big Mike said...

I wonder what kind of a place Stillwater is.

It’s a college town and wall to wall full of people who feel very entitled. Just like Madison.

Third Coast said...

Sorry sir, you can't enter our store without a mask.
But I just drove 20 miles to come here to buy a mask.
Sorry sir, if you don't leave you will be escorted out by security.

Lucien said...

“Boomer Sooner” is the Oklahoma University fight song, and the names of the two ponies that draw the “Sooner Schooner” .

Dust Bunny Queen said...

No masks. Not even on the clerks in any of the stores, or the restaurant/take out workers.

Haven't been to Costco in a while. If we go next week....I guess I'll take a mask. The same one I've been carrying around in my car and only used once when I had a Doctor's appointment.

Ray - SoCal said...

Bunch of studies on why wearing masks helps:
https://masks4all.co/

Browndog said...

I'm not waiting for the inevitable flood of armed robberies to end the mandatory mask clown show.

That would be wrong.

Browndog said...

Ray - SoCal said...

Bunch of studies on why wearing masks helps:
https://masks4all.co/


*studies

Tcdq1293 said...

AFAIK, there were no studies that parachutes help with falling from airplane.

Browndog said...

This is a study.

John Marzan said...

this is a problem when USA dont have enough masks for everybody, because china has hoarded them.

Jupiter said...

"Masks are a good idea in that they reduce the reinfection rate. If it falls to less than 1.0 then the virus disappears on its own, without herd immunity. Maybe it's not been explained properly."

This is called "reification error". You assume that since "R0" has a name, it must exist. Since it exists, it can be altered, and if it is altered sufficiently, good things must ensue. But R0 is a property of a disease in a host population, not of any particular encounter with that disease. When enough people are immune, its R0 will decline below 1.0. Your mask may postpone that event, since it might keep you from becoming immune.

Unknown said...

Parachutes HINDER your falling from an airplane.

I Have Misplaced My Pants said...

Unless used correctly, they are just safety theater. There are surely some instances where the tumblers line up and a person is positive, but not symptomatic, so goes out in public, and is positioned relative to another person such that talking or breathing is expelling virus-laden droplets, and the other person takes enough in so as to become infected, and a properly worn mask would have prevented that from happening. In Scott Adams terms, the mask introduces friction, and fewer infections is arguably a good thing. But I am dubious that all of those factors happen in concert enough to have a significant effect, and at any rate, we should all be opposed to safety theater on principle and to exaggerating the benefits of measures that infringe on personal freedom.

I Have Misplaced My Pants said...

Your masks4all site is fucking terrifying, Ray.

Howard said...

Pants you are one stupid cow. The masks work only if everybody wear them no matter how shity they are if everyone wears masks they protection approaches 100%. Math is hard.

You people are truly deplorable.

Howard said...

this is why I have been wearing my mask when I work out everyday for the last I don't know six seven weeks however long since my wife made them. That's what nassim taleb calls anti fragile. But it takes work effort and the ability to do something that other people might think is silly. You're f****** people are just lazy and prideful and as we know from the guidebook pride comes before the fall.

That'said I don't want to see any of you jerk off get the bug so I hope you are right and that all of this mask safety theater as you say is a waste of time. But it's not because next time it will be the only way that we will be able to survive a truly horrific chi com pandemic. All past is prologue do your duty start your training it's not easy it's hard you need to make yourself hard not soft fat lazy stupid prideful gluttonous disgusting drug-addled pieces of s***

Lurker21 said...


OK boomer.

Whatever.

Mrs. X said...

William, I go for walks in Central Park during the day without a mask and I’d say about 30% of the people I see aren’t wearing them either. I keep hoping this is a sign that people are getting fed up. Mr. X and I drove to beach yesterday and were listening in the car to George Carlin do his bit about how he moved to California from NYC. He recounted his scorn for people who didn’t jay walk as did (and does) everyone in New York. “What, you think I’m just gonna stand here and wait for the light to change when there are no cars coming?” The NYC non-compliance for which we famous has evaporated. George Carlin would be disgusted.

Leland said...

Wore a mask to the grocery store this morning. They have a sign asking everyone to wear them, but nobody is enforcing the rule, not even on the employees. My own rule in all this is if the establishment wants me to wear one and I want to patron the establishment; then I'll follow their rules. Or I'll stop giving them business. I do think it is mostly theater, and without proper training, most people don't have a clue how to use PPE to protect themselves.

ga6 said...

Here is a question for the legal types. The tax avoiding governor of my state demands all person over two years of age wear a mask if they are outside their homes.

A large number of the state's citizens can legal carry a concealed firearm, and in some neighborhoods of my home town you may really need one.

The criminal code of the state lists the carrying of a firearm while masked as a criminal offense. What is a good citizen to do?

Unlawful Use of Weapon Illinois
Carries or possesses in a vehicle or on or about
his or her person any pistol, revolver, stun gun or taser or firearm or ballistic knife, when he or she is hooded, robed or masked in such manner as to conceal his or her identity

Lurker21 said...

Boomer Sooner: same tune as Yale's Boola Boola and Albania's Shqipëri, atdhe i dashur ("Albania, dear fatherland!")

Howard said...

The president has said we are at War with invisible enemy. I believed him and took it to heart and took action. You people are just lazy stupid scum who are expressing your true chickenhawk nature. Phony tough is the best way to describe your behavior

I have been responsible for the health and safety of real men working shoulder to shoulder in basic industries using real PPE that is necessary in order not to get sick or cancer or die. So it's real easy for me to pick this up. I got it, wearing a mask is hard. Try wearing a full face respirator in August on the outskirts of Ocala Florida and work 12 hours a day digging up pesticide polluted soil. wearing a f****** Mask to the grocery store is pretty goddamn easy but it's too hard for you fux.

Fritz said...

Tcdq1293 said...
AFAIK, there were no studies that parachutes help with falling from airplane.


At least no studies with a proper control group.

Fritz said...

Mrs. X said...
William, I go for walks in Central Park during the day without a mask and I’d say about 30% of the people I see aren’t wearing them either. I keep hoping this is a sign that people are getting fed up. Mr. X and I drove to beach yesterday and were listening in the car to George Carlin do his bit about how he moved to California from NYC. He recounted his scorn for people who didn’t jay walk as did (and does) everyone in New York. “What, you think I’m just gonna stand here and wait for the light to change when there are no cars coming?” The NYC non-compliance for which we famous has evaporated. George Carlin would be disgusted.


Central Park is open, but the New York based media is irate that Florida opened the beaches.

Michael said...


rhhardin said...
Masks are a good idea in that they reduce the reinfection rate. If it falls to less than 1.0 then the virus disappears on its own, without herd immunity. Maybe it's not been explained properly.


Has anything about this been explained properly?

Leland said...

Meanwhile, Chicago Mayor Lightfoot decided to make things clearer for the Proles:

"This frankly doesn't come as a surprise, given the warm weather. We've all been cooped up. We all miss our friends, and we all want to go outside and gather in groups," Lightfoot said during a Saturday press conference. "However, those aspirations simply cannot become a reality in the middle of a pandemic."

"We will shut you down, we will cite you, and if we need to, we will arrest you and we will take you to jail," Lightfoot said.

Lightfoot and Chicago police are asking residents to anonymously submit tips about any house parties.

Sebastian said...

"no, citizens intent on showing their face were going ahead and threatening violence"

Resisting Virus Theater and government coercion: a healthy sign.

Not Sure said...

Jupiter said...You assume that since "R0" has a name, it must exist.

Pretty sure you've got that backward.

When enough people are immune, its R0 will decline below 1.0.

You've confused Ro with Rt.

Openidname said...

"Browndog said...

"This is a study."

What a crap study. It's in a hospital setting. One test group wore medical masks, one test group wore cloth masks, and the control group? They wore masks too, if that was their prior practice.

The authors even admit that they don't know what their study shows. Maybe that cloth masks don't work, but maybe just that medical masks work better than cloth masks. Did we not know before that medical masks work better than cloth masks?

This experience is teaching me just how many crap studies actually get funding and get published.

Original Mike said...

As to the claim that wearing a mask protects others from you but does not protect you from others:

If the risk of becoming infected increases with the amount of virus to which you are exposed, then wearing a mask decreases the risk of infection to the wearer of the mask.

Inga said...

“Wearing a f****** Mask to the grocery store is pretty goddamn easy but it's too hard for you fux.”

Let’s see how this Great Opening experiment plays out. If we see huge spikes outside of NYC I bet we’ll be seeing at least half of them going back into strict social distancing voluntarily. Then you’ll have the other half who will staunchly remain convinced only the old or sick folks will die and since they are young or middle aged they are safe.

Then there will be those who never step foot into a public building even with a mask.

Greg Hlatky said...

Looks like someone started their drinking early this morning.

Mark said...

Covid is not the only thing to be worried about.

Rabies is bad too.

Lewis Wetzel said...

The data is hard to get, but it appears that about 75% (at least) of the people who died from covid-19 became infected in a hospital or a long term care facility.
So we could reduce the number of covid-19 death by 75% simply by protecting the small subgroup of the population that is confined to a hospital or long term care facility.
I wonder why they don't do that. Seems more sensible than shutting down the US economy.

Birkel said...

Howard ignores the SCIENCE Browndog offers.

Truly deplorable.

I'm Not Sure said...

"I can't say it enough-

Fight the masks. Fight them now, or you'll never be able to take them off."


The masks are punishment for making a fuss about wanting to get out of the house. If you just stayed inside like your rulers told you to, none of this would be necessary.

It's for your own good, of course.

Inga said...

“The U.S. saw 2,909 people die of Covid-19 in 24 hours, according to the data, which was collected as of 4 a.m. ET on Friday. That’s the highest daily Covid-19 death toll in the U.S. yet, based on a CNBC analysis of the WHO’s daily Covid-19 situation reports.

Before May 1, the next highest U.S. daily death toll was 2,471 reported on April 23, according to the WHO. State officials have previously warned that data on Covid-19 deaths are difficult to analyze because they often represent patients who became ill and were hospitalized weeks ago.”

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/02/who-us-just-reported-deadliest-day-for-coronavirus.html?__source=facebook%7Cmain&fbclid=IwAR3Augy_0svST7OufpefyU145RiG3VdnNIlOsonIT2n61cfyHw5XJvY8Zp0

Let’s see what happens going forward. Let’s see if any of the anti mitigation people see illness and death in their own group if they continue to advocate going forward with the Great Opening. If anything, it’ll be interesting.

Browndog said...

You people are just lazy stupid scum who are expressing your true chickenhawk nature

This from the same people that tell us staying home, doing absolutely nothing is heroic, soldiers in a war that rivals WWII.

Michael K said...

You people are just lazy stupid scum who are expressing your true chickenhawk nature. Phony tough is the best way to describe your behavior

Howard is trolling again. He is with this "you people." Do you have to work at being an asshole, Howard, or does it come naturally ?

Charlie Currie said...

Masks today, burkas next fall.

Michael K said...

If I thought it had any real value I would just endure but I know it’s mostly symbolic, providing scared governors a face-saving (ironic, eh?) exit from the ridiculous, unproven, unscientific, illiberal lockdown they have imposed on us

Of course it is theater, just like the TSA which lets 85% of bombs and guns aboard airplanes when tested.

hstad said...

AA - I'm sorry, I'm smelling a 'Lefty' hit piece. BTW, Stillwater, OK has an OSU campus, with approximately 25,000 students, a lot of students from out of town and from overseas. City probably has approximately 60,000 population. So I'm sensing something is amiss with this article. Because Stillwater is not a typical 'hick town', as this author portrays. Moreover, AA, I'm surprised, as an academic attorney, you would not question the thrust of this author's meme. Especially when certain rules and laws are viewed by the people as being over the top. After-all, our 'Elites' are not omnipotent, though they wish they had such powers. Scientists will not go down well in this episode. Reminds me of another issue trying to stay relevant, the Global Climate B.S., with another bunch of Scientists in the dog house.

Sebastian said...

To get out of the insanity epidemic, we need two things, besides basic sanity of course--not sure we can get a vaccine for that:

1. Herd immunity. What you want is more infections among the young and healthy. What you don't want is to slow down transmission among the young and healthy.

2. Protection and isolation of the old and sick actually at risk of nasty disease. Keep them at a distance, out of public places. No need for them to be in any stores -- help them get their stuff some other way. If interaction with others is unavoidable, for example in personal care, then have have those others wear a mask.

Actually, we also need a third thing: to acknowledge that the curve has been flattened enough and healthcare isn't overwhelmed. Fortunately, all the "projections" were wildly inflated guesses, no system is overwhelmed, and the issue is entirely moot.

JAORE said...

I wore my Lone Ranger mask to WalMart yesterday. Believe me, gave me MORE than a six foot cushion.

Yancey Ward said...

Good luck trying to find out whether the mayor and council are Republicans or Democrats, but since it is Oklahoma and I can't find out the party affiliation of the city's leadership, it is probably safe to assume they are all Democrats.

Yancey Ward said...

Unless you have a surgical rated mask, they are worthless for stopping viruses, and they are probably a net negative if they are just the cloth ones people are sewing today. By June, almost no one will be wearing them simply because they are incompatible with hot weather.

The Cracker Emcee Refulgent said...

“Pants you are one stupid cow. The masks work only if everybody wear them no matter how shity they are if everyone wears masks they protection approaches 100%. Math is hard.”

Sorry, but no. Unless they’re putting on a fresh mask (while wearing fresh gloves) every single time they leave their homes. And from what I’m seeing, nothing like that is happening. Aseptic technique is hard.

sdharms said...

to Josephblau: Lefty tinged? Stillwater? I went from Stillwater to Austin for grad school -- the culture shock (lefty tinged Austin) was breath-taking.

Birkel said...

Royal ass Inga cheers deaths.
Meanwhile, here are the CDC numbers.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/index.htm

Imagine her surprise.

Howard said...

Cracker: really. You sound like a pinche lab rat with zero real world field experience. If it's not perfect then do nothing is a female soap opera attitude.

Look how flat the mask wearing Asian curves compared to the vain and ignorant US and Europe.

It doesn't take a weatherman to tell which way the wind blows, Dipshit.

daskol said...

The mask thing has definitely not been explained properly.

Even a mostly ineffective mask can be a remarkably effective tool at controlling the spread. Simply coughing/sneezing into the crook of your elbow is better than just cutting loose. The benefits of masks to any individual may depend on the quality and cleanliness of that person's mask. The benefits of masks to reducing the spread of infection are multiplicative: lots of people wearing masks only 50% effective cut the spread down to zero if enough people wear them. Do they need to wear them in their cars, or when walking around outside? No, but if we in very densely populated areas, which include NYC nearly all the time and grocery stores or indoor areas with lots of people don masks, that would probably be sufficient to end the spread of almost any bug. Just because much of what we've been told by experts is bunk, and because political leaders have been expounding bunk, does not mean everything they advocate for is bunk. Masks are common sense. Whoever mentioned the study about parachutes nailed it.

Drago said...

Inga: "Let’s see what happens going forward. Let’s see if any of the anti mitigation people see illness and death in their own group if they continue to advocate going forward with the Great Opening. If anything, it’ll be interesting."

"....anti mitigation...."

It was quite easy and seamless for Inga to transition from 4+ years of lying about russia collusion and hoax dossiers and treasonous traitors and hoax Ukrainian phone calls and hoax rape charges to the latest set of lies related to the virus and the responses to it.

Meanwhile, the UK is opening up its schools.....which I knew was going to happen when I saw all the Confederate flags being waved around the UK by its nazi racists....which apparently is a real "tell" according to the Althouse blog usual suspects.

Tomcc said...

Evidently today is the day where we learn all the things that Howard does better than the rest of us.
Include me out.

daskol said...

Howard wants people not to wear masks so that deplorables will die and there will fewer of them around.

daskol said...

We are all little old Asian ladies now. Find your qi.

Nichevo said...


Inga said...
“The U.S. saw 2,909 people die of Covid-19 in 24 hours, according to the data, which was collected as of 4 a.m. ET on Friday. That’s the highest daily Covid-19 death toll in the U.S. yet, based on a CNBC analysis of the WHO’s daily Covid-19 situation reports.


Did you look at Birkel's latest numbers? Apparently 20K-odd COVID casualties have come to life. How are we supposed to respect any of this?

bagoh20 said...

There is at least one person in here who seems to really relish the idea of more people dying, as long as they are the right people, and does that while trying to convince us they are the concerned and caring ones. A real ghoul.

daskol said...

More of a troll

daskol said...

Somewhere stands a bridge unguarded and a village missing a prominent citizen.

Birkel said...

Nichevo,
Respectfully, they are not my numbers.

The numbers were collated by the CDC.
They are official government numbers.

The official number of Winnie Xi Flu deaths for last week was less than the daily totals the MSM is reporting.
I do not know if that is some weird anomaly or artifact.

I do know This is Donald Trump's fault.

Inga said...

“Did you look at Birkel's latest numbers? Apparently 20K-odd COVID casualties have come to life. How are we supposed to respect any of this?”

Birkel is an idiot.

bagoh20 said...

Michigan had 154 deaths yesterday under lock down.
Sweden had 16 with everything open.

Lurker21 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
bagoh20 said...

"Birkel is an idiot."

The possibility that 20,000 people didn't die must really piss you off.

Inga said...

John Hopkins 66,570.

320Busdriver said...

In WI my wife and I entered a Menards yesterday where they require a mask. We donned ours and as we passed the mask checker lady she had to tell a guy that he wasn’t welcome without his mask. He responded quite loudly, “oh you’re fascists here”. This made me laugh so hard my mask blew off.

bagoh20 said...

The artist who did the Land o Lakes maiden was a native American from a tribe native to the area. Not that such a thing matters when you are an "activist" who probably imagines the logo depicts an Indian slave that General Custer dragged behind his horse.

bagoh20 said...

"John Hopkins 66,570."

Congratulations!

320Busdriver said...

I think Yancey covered the discrepancy last night on another thread. If you add the 16K in the column for covid+pneumonia and add the fact that the last week is only about 50% of the expected numbers due to death certificate delays you do close the gap between the two.

Inga said...

Worldometers 68,088

Not Sure said...

Did you look at Birkel's latest numbers?

I did. I even read the technical notes explaining the CDC's data collection. Among other things, I learned this:

Previous analyses of provisional data completeness from 2015 suggested that mortality data is approximately 27% complete within 2 weeks, 54% complete within 4 weeks, and at least 75% complete within 8 weeks of when the death occurred

I also looked at the latest Johns Hopkins numbers: 68,000 US Covid deaths. Feel free to argue about which source you like better.

But most interesting was the geographical distribution of "excess deaths" on the CDC site. Deaths in NYC have been 212% of normal; 131% in NJ. 112% in MA. Much higher than in the rest of the country. The question is, what does that pattern tell us?

One view is that nobody in flyover land (or CA) has much to worry about. Another view is that NYC shows how terrible the downside risk of the virus is, and why social distancing is a good idea.

How anyone was supposed to know all this ahead of time is unclear to me, but what's clear from the NYC data is that this hasn't been "just the flu."

Inga said...

People who are buying into playing with the numbers like Birkel and dummies who believe him are idiots too.

bagoh20 said...

"Worldometers 68,088"

Even better, right?

Titus said...

Stillwater, OK sounds horrible.

Stillwater, MN is lovely.

Michael K said...

It was quite easy and seamless for Inga to transition from 4+ years of lying about russia collusion and hoax dossiers and treasonous traitors and hoax Ukrainian phone calls and hoax rape charges to the latest set of lies related to the virus and the responses to it.

It helps that the WuFlu mortality numbers are now completely bogus. Funeral directors are reporting that all death certificates, at least in New York, now have the virus as cause of death.

The only way to track mortality will be total deaths as the other records have been corrupted. A little bit more like the Soviet Union every week.

bagoh20 said...

I think if we took a vote on who is an idiot in here, it would not be Birkel.

bagoh20 said...

So is it true the total deaths in the U.S. are significantly down from normal years?

KellyM said...

Ordered a Trump 2020 mask online yesterday. Wonder how much crap I'll get for wearing it. It's not as if I can go without it.

Inga said...

From Birkel link. I guess Birkel doesn’t understand perfectly understandable English.

“Why these numbers are different

Provisional death counts may not match counts from other sources, such as media reports or numbers from county health departments. Our counts often track 1–2 weeks behind other data for a number of reasons: Death certificates take time to be completed. There are many steps involved in completing and submitting a death certificate. Waiting for test results can create additional delays. States report at different rates. Currently, 63% of all U.S. deaths are reported within 10 days of the date of death, but there is significant variation among jurisdictions. It takes extra time to code COVID-19 deaths. While 80% of deaths are electronically processed and coded by NCHS within minutes, most deaths from COVID-19 must be coded manually, which takes an average of 7 days. Other reporting systems use different definitions or methods for counting deaths.

Things to know about the data

Provisional counts are not final and are subject to change. Counts from previous weeks are continually revised as additional records are received and processed. Provisional data are not yet complete. Counts will not include all deaths that occurred during a given time period, especially for more recent periods. However, we can estimate how complete our numbers are by looking at the average number of deaths reported in previous years. Death counts should not be compared across jurisdictions. Some jurisdictions report deaths on a daily basis, while others report deaths weekly or monthly. In addition, vital record reporting may also be affected or delayed by COVID-19 related response activities.“

Tomcc said...

Inga: I have been referring to two different sources for daily updates: worldometers and Covidtracking.com. For Friday, May 1, they reflect 1,897 and 1743 deaths, respectively.
I'm seeing more variability in the numbers these days; personally, my confidence level is about 90% for any of them.

Sebastian said...

Not: "what's clear from the NYC data is that this hasn't been "just the flu."

True. Two things stand out:

NYC is different; it it weren't, similar patterns would have shown up as a result of pre-shutdown spread and CFRs in most other places.

And WuFlu isn't just the flu: it is worse than the flu for certain vulnerable groups, the old and sick and obese, but less dangerous than flu or suicide or driving for the young and healthy. After all, hundreds of kids die from flu every season; WuFu total under 25: less than 100 (no info on preexisting conditions). Suicides under 35: >14K in 2017-8; WuFlu: a fraction of that.

The basic pattern, the age distribution in particular, has been clear from the outset.

Drago said...

Inga: "Birkel is an idiot."

Is he a russian spy collusionous traitor rapist also?

You've been kind of big on accusing people of that stuff for about 4+ years now.

Drago said...

Hey, here's a terrific flu mitigation idea: dont shove infected elderly into nursing and retirement homes.

But that was a "genius" democrat idea, so my criticizing it no doubt makes me a confederate flag waving nazi murderer.

Drago said...

Tomcc: "I'm seeing more variability in the numbers these days; personally, my confidence level is about 90% for any of them."

You are going to see even more variability as the Ingas in govt shift more and more deaths from other causes into the Flu column for political reasons and to advance the already established and identified democrat Sham-peachment III committee activities in the House.

I'm Not Sure said...

"And WuFlu isn't just the flu: it is worse than the flu for certain vulnerable groups, the old and sick and obese, but less dangerous than flu or suicide or driving for the young and healthy."

There have been 64 covid deaths in Idaho, only two under 60 years of age and none under 50. Two thirds of the deaths are individuals aged 80+ years.

FWIW...

The Cracker Emcee Refulgent said...

“Look how flat the mask wearing Asian curves compared to the vain and ignorant US and Europe.”

Yeah, it’s the masks, LOL. At this point it’s safe to assume you’re not remotely serious.

Inga said...

There’s been a disturbing rise of coronavirus “trutherism” from the Federalist, Rush Limbaugh, Brit Hume, various Fox News personalities, and other right-wing media figures. While I’d normally be content to mock conspiracy theorists — I set up a Twitter account to make fun of bad COVID-19 takes — spreading false information about the pandemic is dangerous, and merits rebuttal.

To be clear: legitimate policy disagreements about the coronavirus exist, and these are not my target. Some pundits forthrightly admit that their preferred approach to dealing with COVID-19 would likely lead to tens of thousands of additional deaths. Some argue that the economic damage of a prolonged shutdown would be greater than from the virus itself, and debate about the real trade-offs is important.
But coronavirus trutherism is different from debating policy or highlighting good news; it simply rewrites facts in service of politicized conspiracy theories.

The main truther theory is that COVID-19 deaths are fake news. Truthers believe that a high percentage of recorded coronavirus deaths are really due to other causes, which the media and health officials conceal to hurt President Trump or advance some hidden agenda.

Yancey Ward said...

Looks like to me that Inga has been hoodwinked again. I looked at every single death tracking site for COVID-19- I can't find a single one that shows the deaths reported on CNBC and their WHO link- not a single one. If you examine the WHO reports for the USA in the previous 2 days, they are lower than the other data sources, but if you add up the three days ending Friday, you get the same values for the most part. So, what happend in report 102 seems to be that deaths from previous days that were omitted got added into the values of new deaths in 102 to give the 2909 number. This literally has to be the explanation because all the other data sources agree with each other about actual deaths Wednesday, Thursday and Friday for the US.

It looks to me that whoever is making decisions about what to report on CNBC is always looking to use the worst number they can find, even it is contradicted by every other source.

Tomcc said...

Inga, you're choosing an unfortunate moment in history to argue that government officials and bureaucrats don't act in bad faith. It may not be their default position, but it certainly isn't out the realm of possibility.

Yancey Ward said...

And 320Busdriver is correct- I covered the discrepancy last night in the CDC total mortality table that got posted there last night and again by Birkel- the data that goes into that subsection lags by at least 2 weeks. Take a look at it 2 weeks from now, and it will reflect the total deaths in Worldometers showed on May 1st- the difference is likely to be less than 1000-2000 deaths. The tell on that table, by the way, is the week of April 25th only showing 49% of expected mortality- that never happens- it can plausibly vary on the top side by 50% given a large enough disaster, but not on the low side.

Drago said...

Inga decides to post an entire set of falsehoods so that we will drown in a sea of lies.

This is precisely how Team Inga conducted their russia collusion hoax, Kavanaugh rape hoax, ukraine phone call hoax and now the Sham-peachment III ChiCom flu hoax.

Recall how Inga claimed that even suggesting Hillary paid for the dossier was a conspiracy hoax.

That was followed by about 150 other factual claims that Inga termed hoaxes.

I think she thinks we've all forgotten about all that.

Imagine that.

Francisco D said...

One year from now we will have CDC numbers on total deaths in 2020.

It will likely show that overall deaths are only slightly higher than previous years. Some categories of deaths will be lower. The obvious conclusion is that the Wu Flu was not the devastating plague that Little Kenny B feared and that the leftists hoped for.

Question to the leftists and alarmists: How many people de in the US each month to various causes?

Answer: 235,000 (or 700K for three months)

Now explain to me why the Wu Flu (and its bogus numbers) are a plague.

Inga said...

“Looks like to me that Inga has been hoodwinked again. I looked at every single death tracking site for COVID-19- I can't find a single one that shows the deaths reported on CNBC and their WHO link- not a single one.”

Yancy said there would be no more than 7,500 deaths in total in the US. So who hoodwinked him?

Drago said...

Inga: "Yancy said there would be no more than 7,500 deaths in total in the US. So who hoodwinked him?"

Inga said Hillary did not fund the hoax dossier. So who hoodwinked her?

Inga said...

“Inga said Hillary did not fund the hoax dossier.”

Liar.

Drago said...

The IMHE said there would be 2.2 million ChiCom flu deaths in the US.

daskol said...

If we end up with the ~ 80K deaths currently being forecast by some bullshit model, then Yancey was off by about 73K deaths. If we go by forecasts from bullshit models that predicted, say, 1 million deaths (the beloved Washington model was more than double that), and we wind up with around 80K by summer's end, then Yancey's prediction looks much closer to the mark than other scientific expert forecasts. But such forecasting, like market timing, are not generally reliable strategies for anything but armchair debates. But I don't think waving around the 7,500 deaths number makes the point that such a forecaster was hoodwinked.

Drago said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Drago said...

Noted Russia Collusion Truther and Kavanaugh Rape Hoaxer Inga: “Liar."

LOLOLOLOLOLOL

Inga is now denying 4+ years of daily Russia collusion hoax-ering!!

You just knew she would, didnt you?

Jim at said...

If you're afraid to go out, stay the fuck home. It's as simple as that.

The rest of us have other things to do with our lives.

Drago said...

By next week Inga will claim she never even heard of Brett Kavanaugh.

Guaranteed.

Drago said...

Apparently, the idea is for Inga and Beijing Boy ARM and Bundy Case Liar Freder and FakeCon LLR-lefty C**** is to launch as many fake conspiracy lies at one time as possible while simultaneously pushing their own actual crazed conspiracy theories.

This is why to this day 80% of democrats still think the hoax dossier is valid and Trump colluded with Russia.

Amongst themselves they admit this freely but they know it doesnt play well with normals and independents. Thats why Inga refuses to answer those questions put to her about while she simultaneously tosses up another batch of made up fake conspiracy charges against others.

This has become the standard left/dem/LLR-left playbook.

Yancey Ward said...

"It will likely show that overall deaths are only slightly higher than previous years. Some categories of deaths will be lower. The obvious conclusion is that the Wu Flu was not the devastating plague that Little Kenny B feared and that the leftists hoped for."

This outcome is almost already guaranteed at this point unless total COVID deaths suddenly explode to 250,000. Given the broad overlap in the CDC data between pneumonia and COVID-19- see Birkel's link, a significant fraction of the COVID death toll will also result in a fall in the pneumonia death toll, and probably influenza, too. The thing to look for a year from now is deaths from cancer, heart failure, and accidents. Accidents should be lower by a predictable number due to the fall off in miles driven, and the other causes of death should be roughly their normal values. If you see significant falls in mortality from all other causes but accidents, it will tell you roughly how many lives were actually shortened by COVID. I predict that at least 50% of the COVID death toll will come from people who were going to die in 2020 of something else, and this is me just looking at the data from the first of this year at the CDC website.

Openidname said...

So the CDC is reporting numbers that it admits (in the footnotes) are wrong and meaningless? Remind me again why we're funding them.

Yancey Ward said...

Here is what WHO did in shortened form- they held back adding deaths from the periods that ended early Wednesday and Thursday morning, and then added them back in for the report on Friday morning. CNBC, of course, wasn't trumpeting the fall in deaths, as reported by WHO on Wednesday and Thurday, but sitting there waiting to trumpet Friday's morning's fake number. The problem for WHO is they can only pull this trick every three days without having to exaggerate the numbers of dead.

Of course, Inga will fall for this trick- she is the target audience.

Yancey Ward said...

They aren't wrong numbers, they are just numbers that have to go through the normal reporting procedures. You don't get this data for April 30th on May 1st. On May 1st, the data you get comes in for people who died during the last 2-3 weeks. The data for a given week isn't usually complete for nearly a month sometimes, though it is usually 95%+ complete at two weeks time. So, the data for the week ending April 18th is probably 95%+ complete, but the data for April 25th is definitely 50% complete at best. The next time the table is updated, you will see added values to those last two weeks and a new week added at the bottom.

Drago said...

So, here's a story that would be easy for any MSM-er to track down if it is a fake conspiracy tale:

"There was even one director, Josephine Dimiceli of the Dimiceli and Sons Funeral Home, who described a case where a woman died who was released to a Supreme Court Justice. The death was attributed to the virus. But the sister of the woman who died didn’t believe it.They did an independent autopsy after the Supreme Court Justice contacted the hospital and found that in fact, it wasn’t COVID.

But that’s because someone objected to the declaration. What if no one objected or if someone died alone or without family to push the point?

Dimiceli described another situation of a death from a nursing home that was attributed to COVID. But the nursing home said it was a “failure to thrive” but they put down COVID because they assume everyone has it."

So that would be a very easy story to verify or debunk, wouldn't it?

A specific Funeral Director, at a specific Funeral Home, dealing with an easily identifiable woman with an easily identified death certificate and autopsy results showing a different cause of death.

That story could be nailed down in an afternoon.

And it was a Supreme Court justice involved.

Too easy.

Looking forward to an Inga-like "reporter" to get on up there and shoot this "crazy" "conspiracy"-driven Funeral Director down!

But I think we all know that will never happen....don't we?

Eric said...

"There are surely some instances where the tumblers line up and a person is positive, but not symptomatic, so goes out in public, and is positioned relative to another person such that talking or breathing is expelling virus-laden droplets, and the other person takes enough in so as to become infected, and a properly worn mask would have prevented that from happening."

But from https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2020/05/help_officer_im_being_murdered_by_an_unmasked_gunman.html
"We were led to believe that even asymptomatic persons could transmit the virus. We now learn that isn't true and was based on a false account. People without fevers, coughs, sneezes cannot transmit COVID-19."
sourcing https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/02/paper-non-symptomatic-patient-transmitting-coronavirus-wrong?fbclid=IwAR06Z5YGeFV_6tywn9DbWhYb_T2xgJgrwnCHzKOWtnveajTsRQJiqij2TbM

Jim at said...

Funny how certain people who 'only care about accurate numbers' always seem to hope and pray for the worst, possible outcome.

Why is that?

bagoh20 said...

"The IMHE said there would be 2.2 million ChiCom flu deaths in the US."

The disappointment in that not happening has been palpable.

Two options:

1) It turns out that shutting down our economy had little to no positive effect in most places, leaving Covid deaths well below normal flu numbers regardless, which would mean that we never have to do it again.

2) It turns out shutting down did help reduce Covid deaths to far below normal flu numbers, so we will logically have to do it every year from now on to prevent similar numbers from the flu in most places.

Which one are you hoping for?

bagoh20 said...

Inga, Wouldn't it be a great thing if you were wrong all along and shutting down wasn't necessary? Don't you at least hope that's true?

Michael K said...

I see Inga is now linking to left wing lawyers as authorities.

Same old BS.

Howard said...

Yes bagoh2o, but hope is not a plan.

Not Sure said...

Which one are you hoping for?

I don't know where you and others get the notion that this is a matter of hope. To me, it's just a matter of using the information at hand at any moment to figure out as best I can what this virus is like. We can all quite reasonably come to different conclusions, and I respect your views in that regard, as I have since starting to read this blog. But I haven't read anything posted by anyone here that indicates a desire for more deaths.

All discussions about Covid are exercises in decision making (hypothetical for blog commenters, real for public health officials) under a lot of uncertainty with a major asymmetry in the cost of overreacting vs. underreacting--in real time, not retrospectively.

Inga said...

“Inga, Wouldn't it be a great thing if you were wrong all along and shutting down wasn't necessary? Don't you at least hope that's true?”

Yes absolutely, however I’m not going to try to cook the numbers just to prove what I believe to be true, unlike Birkel and some other conspiracy minded people.

Inga said...

“We can all quite reasonably come to different conclusions, and I respect your views in that regard, as I have since starting to read this blog. But I haven't read anything posted by anyone here that indicates a desire for more deaths.”

Well said and true.

Matt said...

It's interesting to watch a nation collapse. Why the f*ck would you get mad at simple employees showing up to serve your obese, self-centered ass cuz you "...just wanted to get out of the house, for a change" and who have exactly 0% power in the situation?

I'll bet they were boomers.

Mark said...

"So, here's a story that would be easy for any MSM-er to track down if it is a fake conspiracy tale:

"There was even one director, Josephine Dimiceli of the Dimiceli and Sons Funeral Home"

Typical Drago making stuff up.

Google doesn't find any such results under that name, a whole big nothing.

If it's got Drago's name and doesn't have a link, you can be pretty sure it's a truckload of bullshit.

Once again that's the case with his SUPREME COURT JUSTICE! conspiracy theory.

bagoh20 said...

"Yes bagoh2o, but hope is not a plan."

I think that has been our entire plan. Hide and hope, and hope we don't destroy our lives in the process. Hope there is something left afterward. I have seen almost nothing but hope. Where is the plan that is not just hope? Hope it goes away, hope we find a cure, hope we get a vaccine soon. There is no plan, no science even. It's just hope that doing something we never did before might work. The plan I see is to say loud and often that you're following the science, and then HOPE it follows what you already picked as a strategy when you even admit it was picked becuase we didn't know anything. It's hope all the way down.

And yes, some are hoping for more deaths. You can't convince me that people hating on the protesters do not secretly and even openly hope they pay a big price for their disobedience to the state and the Karens. If they don't suffer consequences it makes the Karens wrong, and Karen does not want that.

Francisco D said...

Yancey Ward said ... I predict that at least 50% of the COVID death toll will come from people who were going to die in 2020 of something else, and this is me just looking at the data from the first of this year at the CDC website.

That seems like a reasonably good prediction. I would guess a bit lower (35-40%), but we will know a lot more about the true effects of COVID-19 in a year.

However, now is the time for leftists to push their new hoax: COVID = The Black Plague.

It will all be forgotten in a year as the leftstream media rewrites history ... again.

In 2021, Althouse lefties will deny that they were catastrophizing COVID, just as they deny pushing the Impeachment, Russia and Kavanaugh hoaxes,

Drago said...

Mark: "Google doesn't find any such results under that name, a whole big nothing.

If it's got Drago's name and doesn't have a link, you can be pretty sure it's a truckload of bullshit."

Very interesting.

That's why I explicitly said it would be very easy to verify or debunk.

Explicitly.

Did you miss that part dummy?

Being a lefty, by definition, means you miss quite alot.

Drago said...

What we really need to understand is why the US, at Dr Fauci direction and approval, was funding research at the Wuhan laboratory.

I think it would be fair to ask what specific research was being funded there, what the total amount of funding was provided, and what the expected benefits would be.

Unfortunately, by just asking a simple question like that, Noted Long Time Conspiracist Inga (Russia collusion, hoax dossier, Carter Page is a russian spy, Trump is a Putin asset, Trump Tower servers communicate with russian banks, Trump is a money launderer for russians, Kavanaugh is a rapist, etc) will pretty much go insane.

RichardJohnson said...

I wonder what kind of a place Stillwater is.
Seems to me that someone writing from the college town of Madison would also note that
Stillwater is a college town, the home of Oklahoma State University. The Wiki article points out that OSU is the biggest employer in Stillwater. OSU's imprint on Stillwater is rather greater than UW's imprint on Madison: 35k OSU students in a town of 45k, versus 44,000 UW students in a city of 250k.

BTW, Boomer Sooner is the fight song of Oklahoma University in Norman. Oklahhoma State students and OU students have a mutual antipathy for each other.

An OSU faculty member did his doctoral research in my New England hometown.

Darkisland said...

 Inga said...

John Hopkins 66,570

CDC 38,308 as of May 1

John Henry

Drago said...

Lefty Mark: "Typical Drago making stuff up.

Google doesn't find any such results under that name, a whole big nothing."

Wow.

Really?

Gee, I don't want to accuse Lefty Mark of making stuff up, but I did a simple google search and I found this....on the very first try:

https://dimicelifuneralhome.com/

189-06 Liberty Avenue,
Hollis, NY US
11412
Phone: 212-683-1798
Fax: 646-368-8084

Huh. How can that be?

Lefty Mark and Inga claims this place doesn't exist.

So then I thought, well, anyone could slap up a website. Lets take a look at google street view and the building does have a sign for Funeral Services at that address, but it reads "Majestic Funeral Services", which could mean a couple things, a fake website with fake story is using the google maps address of a different Funeral Home, OR the Majestic Funeral Home is owned by a larger parent company that has consolidated other funeral homes.

Again, this would be very easy to verify or debunk by an actual investigator....but not by Lefty Mark who clearly has yet to figure out how to do google searches.

Good luck Lefty Mark! And not to worry, you'll always have Ken B in your corner! So you've got that going for you, which is nice....

Fritz said...

Just throwing this one out here. The WaPoo has a daily death count graph. Here is today's

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-GbuFORbaN4A/Xq8vcjeESCI/AAAAAAABwDc/ihoReOwWPQwsWRRzT-LzANWE75Pup54LACLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/WuFlu_USA_050320.PNG

There's a pretty clear 7 day wave in the data, like they don't count some of the dead until midweek. I can just see them wandering around nursing homes and looking to see who expired over the weekend.

It shouldn't be that much trouble to actually ascribe a date to the day it occurred.

narciso said...

https://americanmind.org/essays/the-pandemic-road-to-serfdom/

Michael The Magnificent said...

No one likes wearing masks.

No one likes wearing condoms, either.

And while I generally admire a ZFG attitude, both masks and condoms help to reduce the spread of disease.

So your objection to wearing a mask is because someone told you that you had to wear one? What are you, two years old? If someone told you that you couldn't wear a mask, would you then insist on wearing one?

Even this late in the disease, I still see people going about as if there is no disease - no mask, no gloves, touching everything, touching their face, not maintaining their distance. It's as if they live in some alternate reality.

So you think the virus is no big deal, at least if you get it because you're young and healthy? Well good for you. But some of us are older, some of us have high blood pressure, some of us have heart disease, some of us have asthma, and we don't need some ZFG no-mask jackass insisting on talking to us from three feet away. Love your neighbor as yourself. If you don't care if you get it, that's fine with me. But you do have a responsibility as a fucking human being to not spread it to people who might die because of it.

Grow the fuck up. It's only temporary.

Gk1 said...

"Grow the fuck up. It's only temporary" Dude, where the fuck have you been? I've been in lock down since 2nd week March and see no relief in sight. Stay inside until mommy says you can come out if you like. We are exhausted from being lectured to by our inferiors. Wake me when any of their predictions pan out.

Sebastian said...

So, let me get this straight.

First, we treat a disease that disproportionately hits old and sick people with limited life expectancy in nursing homes as a national plague. As if to promote fear of an epidemic.

Then, NY's prog governor orders old and sick people with WuFlu to be sent to--nursing homes. As if to promote fear of an epidemic.

And then, when people die in NY nursing homes, they pad the numbers further by counting anyone with sorta-Wuish symptoms as victims. As if to promote fear of an epidemic.

Is there a pattern?

Sebastian said...

"But some of us are older, some of us have high blood pressure, some of us have heart disease, some of us have asthma, and we don't need some ZFG no-mask jackass insisting on talking to us from three feet away"

Right. So stay away. Isolate. Don't enter stores. Arrange delivery of stuff you need. Let the rest of us protect you by developing herd immunity and keeping the economy afloat.

And by the way, how does closing K-12 and all colleges and all of pro sports help "some of us who are older and have high blood pressure" etc.?

bagoh20 said...

"Love your neighbor as yourself. If you don't care if you get it, that's fine with me. But you do have a responsibility as a fucking human being to not spread it to people who might die because of it.

Grow the fuck up. It's only temporary."


I'll assume you did the same for the flu that killed tens of thousand every year of your life, and will continue to. If you live in one of a large majority of the states, then it kills far more. Where was you humanity then, for those people? Why do you suddenly care now. Will you next year, becuase deaths from communicable diseases just like this are not going to be just temporary.

Inga said...

Fact Check: The CDC Did NOT Simply Make 30,000 COVID-19 Deaths Disappear

Did the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention make 30,000 COVID-19 deaths disappear "just like that," proving the American people were lied to as part of some social experiment? No, that's not true: On May 2, the CDC reported their latest count, with more than 64,000 people in the United States having died from the novel coronavirus, an increase of more than 1,800 deaths from the day before, on May 1.

The CDC acknowledges their numbers lag behind. But even then, a quick search of their site shows the CDC data is actually in line with other estimated COVID-19 death tolls, and the numbers were not revised down by 30,000 deaths.

The social media posts claiming the CDC drastically revised down its numbers have gained traction in recent days, adding to conspiracy theories about overhyping the death toll from the pandemic and unncessarily placing quarantines on Americans. The viral posts cite a different set of data -- a set the CDC acknowledges lags behind by several weeks.

That fact hasn't stopped a frenzy online. The posts cite the data from the National Center for Health Statistics. Indeed, as of May 1, the NCHS listed 37,308 COVID-19 deaths. (You can see for yourself here.) So, those numbers in the viral posts are true, but they are not the full picture.

Other posts wrongly assumed the number reported in the media came from the column marked "Deaths with Pneumonia, Influenza or COVID". This is also not correct.


At the bottom of the chart, the government explains the death toll is weeks behind, and the data "during this period are incomplete because of the lag." The CDC further explains:

It is important to note that it can take several weeks for death records to be submitted to National Center for Health Statistics (NCHS), processed, coded, and tabulated. Therefore, the data shown on this page may be incomplete, and will likely not include all deaths that occurred during a given time period, especially for the more recent time periods.

And:

Why these numbers are different
Provisional death counts may not match counts from other sources, such as media reports or numbers from county health departments. Our counts often track 1-2 weeks behind other data for a number of reasons: Death certificates take time to be completed. There are many steps involved in completing and submitting a death certificate. Waiting for test results can create additional delays. States report at different rates. Currently, 63% of all U.S. deaths are reported within 10 days of the date of death, but there is significant variation among jurisdictions. It takes extra time to code COVID-19 deaths. While 80% of deaths are electronically processed and coded by NCHS within minutes, most deaths from COVID-19 must be coded manually, which takes an average of 7 days. Other reporting systems use different definitions or methods for counting deaths.”

RichardJohnson said...

Fritz:
There's a pretty clear 7 day wave in the data, like they don't count some of the dead until midweek. I can just see them wandering around nursing homes and looking to see who expired over the weekend.
Running 7-day average can help smooth out the weekend trough.


I have been tracking 7 day averages from WORLDOMETER:Ubited States: Coronavirus Cases
Daily Deaths in Us, 7-day average
April 17 2188
April 23 2185
May 2 1884

In 9 days, the 7-day average has dropped 14%.

Coronavirus Statistics: Tracking The Epidemic In New York has some 7-day average graphs.

Jim at said...

Grow the fuck up. It's only temporary.

Or you could stay the fuck home. It's only temporary.

Michael K said...

Inga is still pushing the death squad numbers. I see a definite pattern. Government employees (Democrats in other words) are all for keeping everyone at home and arresting anyone who goes to the beach or on a hike or plays with their kids in a park. They are getting paid.

Ditto for old farts collecting pensions like Inga.

Young people who have mortgages and need to work to pay bills, and who are at much reduced risk for infection with the virus, want to work and need to get out and get their lives back.

Two populations. Democrat cities and states have more of one. The rest of the country has more of the other. Then, of course, there are workers trapped in parasite cities and counties.

Mark said...

Drago, provide proof of your Supreme Court Justice story.

Oh wait. You deliberately did not back up your story as you are full of shit as always.

Usually a broken clock is right twice a day, but poor Deago cannot even do that

Mark said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Mark said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Mark said...

The virus spreads most easily in confined spaces with prolonged exposure and when someone is coughing, hacking, sneezing, etc.

It spreads less easily in open spaces with incidental contact with others, particularly if they are breathing normally, i.e. no coughing, etc.

Accordingly, as I have disclosed before, in my locality -- where there are over a 1000 tested positives with 169 hospitalizations and 42 deaths out of a population of 240,000 in an area of 22 sq. miles -- I put on a mask when I leave home. But when outside away from people I'll leave it down.

If I'm about to come near someone on the park trail or sidewalk, I'll move over to create some distance. If I go inside a store or restaurant, I'll pull the mask up over my nose and mouth.

I wear the mask not so much to avoid getting the virus -- I believe the risk of transmission is probably relatively low and, in any event, an acceptable risk. Rather, I wear it as a courtesy to others, to give them some peace of mind. And, if wearing a mask is the cost of being able to have half a life, I am willing to compromise. After all, it IS only temporary. I can put up with the annoyance and inconvenience without having a hissy fit.

That said, if demands are made through the summer and into fall that we still need to put on haz-mat suits to even walk out to the mailbox, then that might be the time to get all bent out of shape. But we are not there yet.

We got too many Francises on the alarmist side as it is. We don't need them on the other side as well.

Mark said...

OK, Mike -- figure out who is whom.

Mark said...

Not you Mike, I'm talking about the other Mike.

Mark said...

Can't believe its been nearly 40 years! Forty!

https://youtu.be/mUtHkSw9nEY

Openidname said...

Michael K said...

"Government employees" and "old farts collecting pensions" "are all for keeping everyone at home . . . . They are getting paid."

Old farts collecting pensions should be worried that lockdowns are going to make their pensions dry up. From the Financial Times:

https://www.ft.com/content/390f168b-1adc-4ba2-86e3-cbd839394c2b

Inga said...

“Inga is still pushing the death squad numbers. I see a definite pattern. Government employees (Democrats in other words) are all for keeping everyone at home and arresting anyone who goes to the beach or on a hike or plays with their kids in a park. They are getting paid.”

And what numbers would those be? I cited the CDC, Worldometers and John Hopkins. As for keeping everyone at home and arresting anyone who goes outside, where did I or any Democrat ever say any such thing? I’ve been saying I go outside everyday with no mask. My kids go outside everyday with my grandchildren, I go to grocery stores wearing a mask.

Michael K is trying to out Drago Drago, lol.

Gator said...

RichardJohnson that was the first thing that came to my mind, how could Prof. Althouse not know that Stillwater was the home of Okie St.? - I get that she isn't a sports fan, but just from an academic level shouldn't she know the T. Boone Pickens' favorite college to donate to?

Michael K said...

Michael K is trying to out Drago Drago, lol.

More Inga BS.

California is now a one party state.

More lies from Inga.

Michael K said...

Old farts collecting pensions should be worried that lockdowns are going to make their pensions dry up. From the Financial Times:

Why do you think Newsom and Cuomo are pushing so hard for state bailouts?

Inga said...

Michael K, you old senile geezer, since you linked to the articles, NOT me, YOU are the one spreading BS.

cyrus83 said...

The mask requirements are mostly security theater. They weren't mandated when the curve was on the way up, and now that the numbers are falling, it doesn't make much sense to add this requirement when it wasn't needed to "flatten the curve" in the first place. Goalpost shifting should be viewed with deep suspicion by the public, since disease is always going to be with us.

The problem with security theater is that it often never goes away - see airports after 9/11 for example. The government really hasn't even tinkered much with the process in recent years, it's just done as an ossified process for the sake of appearances now. Nobody in government is even thinking about whether it's needed or how to improve it.

With these mask mandates is that the governments often aren't giving any criteria for when they go away. People have respiratory illnesses year-round, so there is a case to be made for doing it forever even to save one life! Your favorite celebrities, politicians, media personalities, and societal elite will be exempt of course.

I really don't think the public is going to go for that kind of regime, and the longer politicians try to die on this hill, the more they undermine their authority in the eyes of the public. Ohio also gave up on this mandate in short order, and I think if New York is still trying to enforce it next weekend, I am taking a road trip to Ohio to do my shopping just to give Cuomo, the greens, and the Karens a giant middle finger.

n.n said...

John Hopkins 66,570

CDC 38,308 as of May 1


Conflation of causes and an almost gay satisfaction counting the excess deaths. #HateLovesAbortion

Gospace said...

We already know how to combat this not so deadly virus that according to several flu experts is less infectious than actual influenza.

At the first sign of infection, one of the two quinine derivative medications, zinc, and azithromycin. At the start, we didn’t know this- but some suspected it. Some Democrat governors are killing their citizens by forbidding the treatment because Orangeman Bad, other TDS afflicted governors like my very own Dictator Cuomo are only allowing it to be used if you’re part of an “approved “ study, after it’s been confirmed by testing, after you’ve had bad enough symptoms to be admitted to the hospital, or in other words, after it’s too late to do any good for someone with serious co- morbidities. Because Orangeman Bad.

There’s no reason at all whatsoever to keep people locked up anymore. No reason what, not when there’s a known effective treatment. Are there a few that it may not work on? Of course. Each and every time A medico prescribes amoxicillin to me I hand the prescription back and ask them to provide something that works. They won’t prescribe me the older penicillin because they’ve been taught it doesn’t work. Had it twice in my Navy career for URIs of some kind. Worked like a charm.

Gk1 said...

What is becoming clearer to me with many of the posters here on this topic is they are not suffering the direct loss of a job or business or feeling any real material harm while shut down. Duly noted. I think if you watched your business sliding down the drain you wouldn't be brightly chirping "Suck it up buttercup its only a minor annoyance" as you sit on your ass and watch Netflix or barely stay awake during a zoom call. Glad you are being taken care of. Glad it's totally working out for you brave souls.

Robert Cook said...

"Speaking of opening up your cities during a state of plague to mollify the demands of capital, in 1720 the city of Marseille allowed a ship from plague-ridden Cyprus into port, under pressure from merchants who wanted the goods and didn’t the patience to sit out for the usual quarantine period. More than half the population of the city died over next two years…"

"Roaming Charges," COUNTERPUNCH.ORG, Jeffrey St. Clair

Robert Cook said...

"Masks are a good idea in that they reduce the reinfection rate. If it falls to less than 1.0 then the virus disappears on its own, without herd immunity. Maybe it's not been explained properly."

We know who is to blame for that.

Drago said...

Mark: "Drago, provide proof of your Supreme Court Justice story.
Oh wait. You deliberately did not back up your story as you are full of shit as always.
Usually a broken clock is right twice a day, but poor Deago cannot even do that"

I didn't say it was true.

As anyone can see by my original post.

I said there were so many specific details to the story (there are) that it would be any easy matter to check it out.

You then claimed to do a google search for the name of the funeral home and you said you came up empty handed.

Which was obviously a lie as I pulled up the funeral home info easily.

I then provided the address of the very funeral home depicted in the story and inspected the google street view which showed a name different from the story.

I relayed all that in my follow on post.

You know all this but you look like a fool for not being able to conduct a simple google search.

Pretty embarrassing for you.

Drago said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Drago said...

My 3 posts relevant to Lefty Mark's latest set of lies (there are so many to keep track of!) can be found in this thread at:

2:31pm (my first line in that one is this: "So, here's a story that would be easy for any MSM-er to track down if it is a fake conspiracy tale:", but don't tell Lefty Mark.

3:40pm

3:54pm This is the one where I included that info on the funeral home where this alleged mislabeling of a death occurred: Here it is again for those, like Lefty Mark, who are unable to conduct simple google searches:
https://dimicelifuneralhome.com/

189-06 Liberty Avenue,
Hollis, NY US
11412
Phone: 212-683-1798
Fax: 646-368-8084

Lets see if Lefty Mark can follow the conversation now!

Good luck Lefty Mark! We're all rooting for you!

Michael K said...

I see Cook is a fan of every communist blog out there.

You can sure tell the people whose income is not interrupted.

Michael K said...

More reading material for Inga.

Thousands of people in Newport Beach and hundreds in San Clemente took to the shore on Sunday afternoon, as lifeguards and police repeatedly sent beachgoers packing, pointing out they were in violation of Gov. Gavin Newsom’s order that closed all Orange County beaches.

“We’re seeing some crowds build,” said John Pope, spokesman for Newport Beach. “It’s enough where we want police enforcement to help get everyone off. It’s individuals who didn’t get the word or those who are being defiant.”

Lifeguards in Newport Beach asked 2,700 people to vacate the beaches, he said.


The Nazis are having a great time.

Drago said...

By the way, the Funeral Home that Lefty Mark and Inga claims does not exist is listed in the online Yellow Pages as:

Dimiceli & Sons, Inc.

18906 Liberty Ave, Saint Albans, NY 11412
(212) 683-1798

Again, lots of available info for any enterprising journalist who would like to shoot that story down.

bagoh20 said...

What is also clear is that for some people the number of deaths is better if it's higher.
They work very hard fighting against any attempt to reduced them for any reason, or even to question the numbers as too high. It's as if their talking about the score for their favorite sports team. Don't bother wasting a few moments to put out some throw-away words saying otherwise when you spend hours doing whatever you can to prop up the numbers.

We know the system is also full of people with similar motivations. Add that to the widely known cases of Covid death number-fudging, and you have to be a sucker to believe these numbers are not inflated and maybe dramatically.

In most places even the inflated numbers do not justify the response, but if they are inflated, then we have a tragedy of government and bureaucratic incompetence at best and possibly something very much worse. The folly of the argument from authority may have just wasted years of peoples lives, and dealt an incredible blow to the world. Now that I think of it, most of the world's tragedies, past and present, are due to the sheep's taste for argumentum ad verecundiam. The problem is tragically unable to self-correct, because humans, especially those attracted to power, are the least able to admit mistakes or change course.

bagoh20 said...

Has anybody here promoting extended shutdowns suffered total loss of income? How about your savings, your hard earned assets, your house, your business? Understanding of those losses by others gets about 1% of the concern of the hiding Karen community. The media would normally love stories about people losing jobs, homes, busnesses, and savings when a Republican is in the White House, but this time - just suck it up.

Michael K said...

Has anybody here promoting extended shutdowns suffered total loss of income?

Of course not.

Michael K said...

More reading material for Inga and lefty Mark.

open businesses, including restaurants and offices, but require new standards for hygiene, disinfection and sanitization via enforceable, more stringent regulations than in the past. It is reasonable to post warnings for customers who are older or in other ways vulnerable. Avoid unnecessary requirements for spacing of customers, though — it is not logical that otherwise healthy adults, especially younger age groups, should be isolated or maintain a six-foot spacing from each other. If infection is still prevalent, socializing among these low-risk groups represents the opportunity for developing widespread immunity and eradicating the threat.

No problem with that but the left sees this as a political opportunity.

Birkel said...

Royal ass Inga can only look at a single column.

Did anybody else notice that U.S. deaths are at 97% of expectations.
So 3% fewer people have died?

Worst pandemic ever.

Birkel said...

Did anybody note how easy it was to get the Leftist Collectivists to complain about the CDC chart?

But not a one of them managed to look a couple columns over.
Not one.

I would love to read the rationalizations for overlooking that overall deaths are down.
During.
A.
Fucking.
Pandemic.
Can anybody point to a similar pandemic in the history of history?

Scott said...

Nobody mentioned the Stillwater State Prison, which is actually in Bayport, which is also the headquarters of Andersen Windows.

People who live in towns with state prisons have funny attitudes.

Gk1 said...

I know people first hand who have been laid off and believe me their attitude has changed on a dime on the necessity of staying shut down. California's entire unemployment insurance infrastructure is so swamped and people are being told up front it will be at least a month before they see any money. Nice! And yet Gov.Zoolander has no sense of urgency in opening up again. He openly muses "let's wait and see" Wait and see for what, asshole? The whole economy collapsing?

Birkel said...

They tested a prison, speaking of prisons, in the American South and found almost the whole population was exposed to Winnie Xi Flu and over 90% were asymptomatic.

Ray - SoCal said...

Masks seem to help in 3 ways:

1. Reduce droplet distance traveled (huge)
2. Stop you from touching your mouth / nose (helps)
3. If worn correctly, with right mask, etc. reduces chance of getting droplets through mouth / nose (little help for most)

My Father in law made a bunch of cover for our masks, we wash daily, with our names on it. This way we can extend the masks we have.

My frustration is this amazing, wonderful stay at home by our super smart looking Governor, has not stopped the Virus Spreading. So where are the infections coming from? My guess is at least 40% from nursing homes in CA.

Why is this not being published / investigated?
https://www.latimes.com/projects/california-coronavirus-cases-tracking-outbreak/

Crazy World said...

Howard sounds like he wants to have the swim school nurse grab his testicles again. You do you!

Crazy World said...

Thank you Michael K for writing out the OC Register article, HB is my old home sweet home. I have been resisting paying to read that online.

Lion said...

Free Watch Anime & Download (Quality (480p, 720p, 1080p) www.justanime.org

Mark said...

Drago, your bullshit claim about a Supreme Court justice has zero evidence. None.

It is not my job to find something for you. You made a claim and now are not providing any backup to the story.

Your claim is like saying because I can demonstrate K Blasey Ford is q real person that then it means that Brett Kavanaugh gang raped her with his buddies.

Just like you, I am claiming a real person exists and not providing a single additional detail or proof about what I am claiming

It is the very definition of bad faith commenting. You and Birkel can go fuck yourselves as you NEVER post in good faith and unlike Michael K cannot claim dementia and aging related mental slips.

Rusty said...

Blogger Michael K said...
"I see Cook is a fan of every communist blog out there.

You can sure tell the people whose income is not interrupted."
Yeah. I noticed that too. So when they get all, " We should all stay quarantined until a cure is found!" I ask them if they'd be willing to pay their barber or favorite waitstaff out of their own pockets to stay at home too. The response was universally negative with a few, "fuckem. I'm not responible for their poor life choices."
Our compassionate left.


Michael K said...

It's too bad lefty Mark doesn't add to his moniker so I can skip right by his comments.

There is another Mark who comments from time to time.

Paco Wové said...

Comment seen at Sailer's:

"This quarantine has a Harrison Bergeron quality in that it seems to seek to redistribute, by bringing all low, so actually make “equal”, the risks and suffering of the pandemic.

The under 50s have health “privilege”, so they should be locked away so older people don’t feel bad. Furthermore, they should be guilt tripped and demeaned into compliance. Cheers!"

Mark said...

Must have hit too close to home for Michael K, given the response.

«Oldest ‹Older   1 – 200 of 201   Newer› Newest»