[L]ast Friday night, the DOJ provided some so-called Brady material — i.e., exculpatory information that prosecutors are required by law to reveal to defendants they have charged with crimes.... The information is still not public... But we can glean its outlines from a motion [Flynn's lawyer Sidney] Powell filed... [arguing that Flynn was] "deliberately set up and framed by corrupt agents."...
There was no good-faith basis for an investigation of General Flynn. Under federal law, a false statement made to investigators is not actionable unless it is material. That means it must be pertinent to a matter that is properly under investigation. If the FBI did not have a legitimate investigative basis to interview Flynn, then that fact should have been disclosed as exculpatory information. It would have enabled his counsel to argue that any inaccurate statements he made were immaterial....
[I]t has long been speculated that Flynn... pled guilty to false-statements charges because prosecutors from Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s staff threatened... [to] charge his son with a felony for failing to register with the Justice Department as a foreign agent. Such a so-called FARA violation (Foreign Agent Registration Act) is a crime that the DOJ almost never charged before the Mueller investigation, and it had dubious application to Flynn’s son (who worked for Flynn’s private-intelligence firm)....
Under federal law, all understandings that are relevant to a guilty plea must be disclosed to the judge. It would be not merely a serious ethical breach for government lawyers to fail to reveal such an arrangement. It would be a fraud on the court....
April 28, 2020
"New documents suggest that Flynn ‘was set up by corrupt agents’ who threatened Flynn’s son and made a secret deal with Flynn’s attorneys."
Writes Andrew McCarthy at National Review.
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It is time for people to hang.
And it is time for the FBI to be disbanded completely.
"deliberately set up and framed by corrupt agents."
This was obvious from the outset in the way they went about it.
"There was no good-faith basis for an investigation of General Flynn"
This was obvious from the outset to all of us who were aware of the deep-state attack on Trump. NR and McCarthy were slow.
"If the FBI did not have a legitimate investigative basis to interview Flynn, then that fact should have been disclosed as exculpatory information."
Shoulda. But we are talking about the FBI here--systematically corrupted by its top officials to attack Trump's and Republicans.
It would have enabled his counsel to argue that any inaccurate statements he made were immaterial....
"[I]t has long been speculated that Flynn... pled guilty to false-statements charges because prosecutors from Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s staff threatened... [to] charge his son with a felony for failing to register with the Justice Department as a foreign agent. Such a so-called FARA violation (Foreign Agent Registration Act) is a crime that the DOJ almost never charged before the Mueller investigation, and it had dubious application to Flynn’s son (who worked for Flynn’s private-intelligence firm)"
The "speculation" was entirely obvious to anyone looking closely.
"Under federal law, all understandings that are relevant to a guilty plea must be disclosed to the judge. It would be not merely a serious ethical breach for government lawyers to fail to reveal such an arrangement. It would be a fraud on the court...."
I'll believe the court is serious about doing justice when the responsible prosecutors and the bad-faith FBI officials are thrown in prison.
Once again, the most cynical take on events by us cynical deplorables was correct from the beginning.
"There was no good-faith basis for an investigation of General Flynn."
There was no good-faith basis for ANY of the Russian "investigation". It is not hyperbole to call this an attempted coup. We desperately need accountability (i.e. prison for at least some of the guilty) or what happened to the Trump administration will become the new normal.
Recall also that Inga did not hesitate to call this 33 year Marine Corps General a traitor.
And she has never retracted that accusation.
The DOJ lawyer that allegedly did this might get disbarred. Or at least serious discipline.
Barr should release this Brady material.
McCabe is going to be indicted. Others too.
Many here have known this for years.
Others have denied it for years.
"I'll believe the court is serious about doing justice when the responsible prosecutors and the bad-faith FBI officials are thrown in prison."
If you hold your breath that long, your widow will find you voting a straight Democrat line forever.
Andy McCarthy is a swamp apologist that I no longer pay attention to. As Buywa has written many times here, the press is a tool being used for a particular outcome. McCarthy's tepid concern or criticism of the DOJ and FBI only serve to help pretend some justice will be done or provide transparency on what the swamp has done to take down Trump since his inauguration. I'll believe his sincerity when he calls for McCabe and Comey to server jail time.
Donald Trump is looking more and more like Georges Danton every day.
He has to know this.
I don't suppose it bothers a feminist like Althouse that McCabe had a personal grudge against Flynn for intervening on the side of a woman in a sex discrimination case against the FBI in general and McCabe in particular. Sisterhood only goes so far!
This is new?? Who didn't think this from the beginning?
There was no good faith basis for:
Flynn
Kavanaugh
Roger Stone
Russia Collusion
Ukraine Implementable
and Evers extending Wisconsin's lock down on April 16th.
the case about flynns associate, that fell apart on cursory examination should have been the clue,
Sally Yates should rot in hell for setting Flynn up - her fingerprints were all over this.
Is this stuff really going to come out and Hillary Clinton voters are going to pretend to be shocked at this new information? "I had not idea"... Is there anyway we can just keep these people quarantined?
@Achilles
Yeah, I'm in agreement. The FBI - among other gov institutions - needs defunding. These intuitions have become a fifth column and a turnstile-door for sociopaths looking for their next opportunity in government.
Any sense of mission that may have been left at the FBI died in their collusion to oust a duly elected president of the USA.
Purge.
Sidney Powell has been able to push Flynn's case forward so much in such a short period of time. It makes me wonder 1) if she's really that good, or 2) Flynn's previous counsel was really bad, or 3) there have been personnel changes at DoJ that made such rapid progress possible?
Or, to quote Insty, may be I should just "embrace the healing power of 'and'".
"...what happened to the Trump administration will become the new normal."
For Republican administrations, yes. And why not? Even if it doesn't work, there are no consequences of note. And don't hold your breath waiting for the mythical indictments and jailings. There will be roughly zero of those, and in a few months all can be buried under the Biden administration, as the Deep State welcomes back its half-century corruptocrat as president.
Wtf does this stuff take so long? Wheels of justice needs some damn WD40.
Yes, it was obvious to many of us over 3 years ago that Flynn was targeted by the DoJ and the FBI illicitly and for purely political reasons. It is disgraceful that it has taken this long to even get these damning materials into the hands of Flynn's new attorney. This part of McCarthy's essay gets to something I have written about several times on Mark Wauck's blog over the last two years:
"First, Sidney Powell had nothing to do with negotiating Flynn’s guilty plea. To the contrary, she has been intrepid in investigating whether that plea was induced by prosecutorial misconduct. Flynn was originally represented by the very politically connected Washington firm of Covington & Burling. The firm’s performance has already raised questions: They counseled Flynn on his FARA submissions, filing the FARA documents with the DOJ on his behalf; and they also represented him in his plea negotiations with Mueller’s staff, which involved the integrity of these same FARA filings. That’s a conflict of interest, and though the DOJ maintains that Flynn waived it, there is a question about whether such a conflict is waivable."
All of Covington & Burling's actions with regards to their client, Flynn, suggests very strongly that they were actively complicit in setting Flynn up. In short, they weren't working for Flynn- they were working for the government because the lawyers had exactly the same political desires as people like Andrew Weissman and Andrew McCabe- use Flynn to get at Trump. The law firm needs to be investigated as part of a criminal conspiracy.
Any government official who violates a person's civil rights or maliciously prosecutes someone should be publicly shamed. A good shaming might include a pillory post, a large sign describing his/her violations, a large supply of rotten vegetables and fruit and a paddle. Duration of their shame would increase with the severity of his/her offences. Also, they would be barred from holding public office, fined and imprisoned after their public shaming.
Such public shaming would not apply to ordinary citizens.
And yet a good many of us don't believe that any thing will happen to the IA, FBI agents and "Justice" people involved. Achilles, I prefer the method used by Edward I.
"Others have denied it for years."
They will continue to deny it. Some will remain true believers to the bitter end and some will be lying.
The judge in Flynn's case seemed to be worthless. Certainly not a fair handling of the case. This railroading seemed obvious, and it's the judge's job to shut that shit down or at least check it out.
It will be interesting to see if Judge Sullivan is interested in eating some humble pie.
It seems people are confusing Andrew McCarty with NR. Yes, he writes for NR, but McCarthy wasn't late to the game, his book Ball of Collusion is well researched and detailed and makes clear the endemic corruption surrounding the 2016 election.
It seems people are confusing Andrew McCarty with NR. Yes, he writes for NR, but McCarthy wasn't late to the game, his book Ball of Collusion is well researched and detailed and makes clear the endemic corruption surrounding the 2016 election.
The FBI was born in corruption 100 years ago out out its corrupt predecessor. This is nothing new. They've always done this kind of shit.
They need to be disbanded.
John Henry
In my opinion the FBI has done significantly more damage to the US than John Dillinger ever did. Hoover was guilty of operating a criminal organization.
Emmett Sullivan, remember he uncovered the stevens fraud, and the doj reversed his suspensions,
2) Flynn's previous counsel was really bad
Yes and they were in a conflict of interest since they had arranged his FARA application.
Something similar happened with Papadopoulis' lawyers.
One reason why I have opposed a pardon all along is that a pardon assumes guilt. Flynn is guilty of nothing except being a target of the intell agencies because he was a reformer. They knew he had Trump's ear and knew where they had been attempting the coup. He was the target even before Trump.
Blogger Original Mike said...
They will continue to deny it. Some will remain true believers to the bitter end and some will be lying.
There are still people who think Alger Hiss is innocent and was framed by that horrid, horrid, man Nixon.
Some of them comment here at Althouse.
John Henry
Gusty Winds said...
This is new?? Who didn't think this from the beginning?
***********
"Thinking it" is a helluva lot different than proving it via release of documentary evidence that helps prove it.
Powell is a force of nature.
"If the FBI did not have a legitimate investigative basis to interview Flynn, then that fact should have been disclosed as exculpatory information."
McCarthy put it together for me. A misstatement (or lying) to the FBI is criminal (the crime that Gen Flynn was charged with committing) if the statement was material. But it cannot be material if there wasn’t a legitimate investigation under way that it affected. Thus, not having a legitimate investigation itself is material, and thus a required disclosure under Brady, because it negates a required element of the charge, that the misstatement to the FBI be material.
Of course, anyone paying attention has known that it was a setup from the beginning. It was cooked up by FBI DD. McCabe and his inner cadre, sitting around his $70k conference room table. He is the one who set up having some of his inner circle go over and interview NSA Flynn at the WH about his call with the Russian Ambassador, which was, of course, a crime in itself, because that was not a properly minimized use of an unmasked transcript of an intercepted phone call, pursuant to a standing Title I FISA warrant on the Russian Ambassador (a perjury trap is not a legitimate use of Flynn’s unmasked identity on the call). McCabe lied to Flynn about why he was sending Strzok and his partner to visit him, then had the 302s of the interview purged, a month or so later, of exonerating evidence (notably that even avowed Never Trumper Strzok and his partner didn’t think that Flynn was lying). And, of course, that exonerating evidence was also not submitted as Brady material to Flynn until just a month or so ago.
One thing that McCarthy brought up was that the plea agreement apparently had a hold harmless in it, that the government didn’t have to disclose Brady material to people like Flynn taking plea agreements. The judge threw that out early on - after all, how can a defendant taking plea bargain be fully informed about what he is agreeing to, if he doesn’t know what the government has against him, and, esp in this case, where they had nothing? What McCarthy didn’t bring up was that the judge there had standing orders in his court to promptly disclose all Brady material to defendants, regardless. Thus, it could be argued that even if that sort of provision in a plea agreement were normally valid and enforceable against defendants accepting plea deals, they wouldn’t be effective in Judge Sullivan’s court because of his standing court order requiring disclosure. (Which he instituted when some of the same group of miscreant prosecutors had been before him in a previous high profile case, where they had, again, used technical excuses for not having disclosed material evidence to defendants).
I don't understand why it takes years for everyone else to find out facts that right wing hillbillies tell us early on. Is it a language barrier?
Huh. Looks like I was wrong when I said Flynn probably did something wrong, even if it wasn't exactly what they said. I tend to be wrong whenever I indulge in my more centrist opinions. You'd think I'd learn my lesson eventually.
(I'll clarify: I didn't think he was a "traitor" or anything serious. I believed that, under questioning from the FBI, he probably said something contradictory/incorrect, which would normally have been ignored if he wasn't who he was.)
One problem is Flynn pleaded guilty. During the Rule 11 COP hearing, he would have had to admit wrongdoing. The guilty plea waives any non-jurisdictional defects other than sentencing issues. With the painfully thorough Rule 11 colloquies, Flynn IMO likely has little chance of withdrawing his guilty plea, unless the gov't agrees to it.
Moreover, Brady is generally considered a trial right, not a pre-trial right. Circuits are split on this and the SCt has not weighed-in in recent memory. Whether there was a good faith basis to begin the investigation is irrelevant. Most investigations begin with nothing more than a hunch. The hunch is then investigated to determine if the subject has violated any laws.
That's not to say the FBI and prosecutors should escape accountability for any misdeeds.
" it was obvious to many of us over 3 years ago that Flynn was targeted by the DoJ and the FBI illicitly and for purely political reasons. "
-- I also agreed with this; that he might have done something wrong, but it was during an investigation that never should have happened.
"In short, they weren't working for Flynn- they were working for the government because the lawyers had exactly the same political desires as people like Andrew Weissman and Andrew McCabe- use Flynn to get at Trump."
I've wondered about that.
Matt Sablan said...I tend to be wrong whenever I indulge in my more centrist opinions. You'd think I'd learn my lesson eventually
There comes a point where too many people have to be involved in the scheme for the scheme to be believable. But sometimes it's still a scheme, as appears to be the case with Flynn.
We are long past the point of evidence "suggesting" Flynn was set up.
We're even past the point of patience while Lindsay Graham "looks into it".
As I read it, McCarthy does not directly endorse the statement in the subhead you quoted as the header for this post. That subhead was likely written by NR editors and is a summation of Sidney Powell's position.
I'm pointing this out because it startled me that McCarthy would openly call agents of the FBI "corrupt." He didn't.
But, what, between Flynn, Ted Stevens, Kavanaugh, and a host of others -- is there really any reason for anyone to believe the next accusation? Again: I thought it was possible Flynn said something incorrect when questioned by the FBI, but that it didn't warrant criminal proceedings. Now, it turns out, that the FBI was abusing their power in a way beyond mere prosecutorial discretion, something that I also thought was a problem considering that none of the people who made misstatements/told lies during the look into Clinton's emails suffered any consequences. So, again, I'm stuck with a position where even though I want to give the benefit of the doubt, I'm finding that every time I do, I get burned.
So good to see reality catching up with...well...reality.
I wonder if the press will be able to figure out their next move. How to ignore this bit of news and continue to ignore Joe Biden's groping fingers, while accusing Trump of holding back the supply of beverage napkins for their virtual happy hours.
they'll get it right one day:
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/it-sure-looks-like-the-new-york-times-got-played-by-the-former-hhs-expert-who-says-his-firing-was-retaliation
The FBI will never admit this. It would wreck the corrupt banana republic FBI from top to bottom.
It needs to be wrecked. Destroyed.
This is a HUGE deal. MSM completely ignoring it.
The corruption in this nation is real. and it goes all the way up the Schitt-Strozk-Wray chain of command.
Blogger Yancey Ward said...
“Yes, it was obvious to many of us over 3 years ago that Flynn was targeted by the DoJ and the FBI illicitly and for purely political reasons”
Just to split hairs a bit, but it isn’t completely clear, at least to me, how much it was political, and how much it was personal on the part of FBI DD McCabe. I think that some of McCabe’s reason for setting up the perjury trap for Flynn could have been revenge for testifying (essentially against McCabe) in a sexual harassment case. Then, there was the probability that Flynn was going to reorganize the Intelligence Community, which might have avoided having so many Obama holdovers on the NSC, including the traitorous Lt Col., ultimately leaking to Schifty’s fake whistleblower. I think that, at a minimum, he would have had a better idea of who was trustworthy, and who wasn’t.
I appreciate McCarthy for being on top of this information. But I hate the fact that he always pulls his punches. He's like Romney refusing to go after Obama. Sometimes you can't be polite or nonchalant (yay, Trump). McCarthy has been great and informative reading over the past three years, but he still sounds like he's reluctant to actually spell out how bad all this really is. If he cares about justice, and the integrity of law enforcement agencies and the judicial system, he should be furious. Where's the rage? This isn't a game. What happened to Flynn (and Trump) is despicable.
I agree with those who think the FBI should be torn down to the ground, and its land sown with salt. Whatever legitimate investigations they have going on can be moved to some other agency or institution. The FBI, the CIA, the NSA, and all the other "17 intelligence agencies" have no credibility left. I think even some liberals would agree with that. Time to start over.
It's my belief these are the doings of Barry the Weasel...not to be confused with Bury the Weasel, a game popular among quarantined couples during the coronavirus scare of 2020.
Wake me when Hillary and associates are under the jail.
Would love to hear a law professor's take on this. A retired prof, even!
Wake me when Hillary and associates are under the jail.
@Begley,
"McCabe is going to be indicted. Others too."
I hope you're right. However, if Trump loses in Nov, any indictments will be shuttered.
Looks like organized crime is a problem in DC.
"I'm pointing this out because it startled me that McCarthy would openly call agents of the FBI "corrupt."
Yet: "As I’ve said on other occasions, Flynn should never have been prosecuted, and President Trump should long ago have pardoned him. But that’s water under the bridge. For General Flynn, it would probably be best if the court vacated the plea and the Justice Department then dropped the charges."
That sounds to me like the author is not very sympathetic to the "we're just idiots, not corrupt," argument that would have to be made. Also: "The remedy for being bullied into a guilty plea is for the defendant to be permitted to withdraw his plea and fight the charges."
Bullying someone into a guilty plea is not the hallmark of non-corrupt attorneys. Also: "Second, the Flynn case is so patently disturbing that, weeks back, Attorney General Bill Barr assigned a very well-regarded prosecutor, St. Louis’s U.S. attorney Jeff Jensen, to review it. The new disclosures are a result of Jensen’s investigation. The Justice Department’s disclosure to Ms. Powell indicates that more revelations are forthcoming."
I think that the use of "corrupt," if it was indeed chosen by editors and not the author, is a fairly accurate summation. The author is basically holding their fire by saying we don't know for sure how much of this is true, but there are running out of ways to pretend this was non-corrupt behavior.
If only Obama had known!
McCabe will never be indicted unless they find a smoking gun... a smokinger gun, tehcnically. Neither will Clinton. The chance for a reckoning was years ago. Come on, we've got on records FBI agents trading classified information for favors from news reporters and no one suffered consequences.
It is time for people to hang.
@Achilles, don’t write things like that. It makes poor Freder crap his Depends.
Bruce,
Sure, it was probably person for McCabe, too, but he was clearly involved prior to 2017 in the effort to get Trump during the election. That he could "fuck Flynn" before getting to "fuck Trump" was a bonus.
"The FBI, the CIA, the NSA, and all the other "17 intelligence agencies" have no credibility left."
Oh don't be so hard on them- they only missed the 911 attack, Iraq WMD, could not find Bin Laden for 12 years, were caught flat footed by Coronavirus, missed Major Hasan attack on the Army base, missed the Muslim mass murders in Orlando and San Jose [? husband and wife immigrants], misprosecuted the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and lastly actively participated in the plot against Trump to gin up a fake collusion case with Russia. Other than those tiny miscues, what do you got?
McCarthy knows all these guys for years and has a hard time attributing this scandal to malice.
He think they are all good guys who have somehow gone wrong and can't understand why.
Maybe it's a bit like a bunch of West Point graduates but half of them have decided to fight for the Confederacy.
@Drago--Flynn was Army, I think.
But he ate dinner with Putin. You know who else loves Putin?
Tara Reade, that's who!
Narr
WAKE UP SHEEPLE!
@Bay Area Guy, I’m afraid I have to agree with you. Nothing’s going to happen, whether Trump wins in November or not.
McCarthy is probably the rare honest writer these days. He has come a long way from Spring of 2017 in regards to the Russian Hoax. In the beginning, he definitely believed that his former colleagues and other DoJ/FBI officials couldn't possibly conduct this operation unless there really was good reason to suspect the Steele Dossier was true, or no good reason to doubt it.
Of course, McCarthy was writing all of that before he knew the Dossier was paid for by the Clinton Campaign- something that wasn't learned by the public until the Fall of 2017 even though the FBI investigators knew this in the Summer of 2016.
This was going to come out of course, it was only a question of time.
And there is plenty more due out of all the controversies of 2015-today.
And I think there is plenty to come that we the public do not yet have an inkling of.
But in perspective it is a very minor detail. Even the corruption of the FBI is just a detail. I get that the FBI was corrupt, but a government-flipping coup attempt is beyond old boundaries. This stuff is just the expected churn of skirmishes in an ongoing war, of massive scope and significance, and this war is a new thing.
What you have is of course Codevilla's cold civil war, between that caste that controls EVERY American institution, and the American Volk.
I decided, for my part, to extract as much of our assets as possible, and move abroad, because of my dread of the consequences of this situation. Your problems upset me less from over here, where we have very different problems, but on a less cosmic scale.
I think a little collective self-congratulation is in order.
With regard to Flynn, and the Russia collusion hoax, and the impeachment hoax, and the WuFlu panic, the right-thinking side of the commentariat here has been right all along, with Bruce H in the vanguard. Our deplorable skepticism served us well. Ever single thing on which we called BS has turned out to be BS.
There are MSM commentators who did well -- say, Kim Strassel -- but not that many.
Heck, that is what FBI do to people leftists don't like. Remember they wanted to impeach Trump for Obstruction of Justice on the Russian Hoax?
“I'll believe the court is serious about doing justice when the responsible prosecutors and the bad-faith FBI officials are thrown in prison”
I’ll believe the Bar Association is serious about legal ethics when, if collusion can be proven, Kelly’s original legal team are disbarred, impoverished, skinned alive, dipped in acid and publicly displayed on the Capitol Mall.
>>"McCabe is going to be indicted. Others too."
I'll take that bet. Nobody from Justice or the FBI is every going to be indicted over any of this. I doubt anyone will be fired. Maybe somebody will decide to retire a little early, with full benefits, of course.
There is no justice in a political cesspool, which is what DC is.
The FBI is the least of your problems.
They are a handy tool for some tactical things, but they are just a pawn in your opponents set, which is loaded with knights, bishops, rooks and queens, besides hundreds of other pawns.
It's quite scary to think that a guy like Flynn, decades in the military and intelligence service most recently as a general officer and senior executive, can get railroaded in the way that he did. He's an insider and Flynn doesn't strike me as the kind of guy who scares easy. Imagine what they can do to a civilian.
"Flynn IMO likely has little chance of withdrawing his guilty plea, unless the gov't agrees to it."
Wouldn't "the gov't" be William Barr, if he were so inclined?
The cabal told people that future National Security Advisor Michael Flynn was vulnerable to Russian blackmail, because the Russian Government knew that Flynn had violated the USA's Logan Act when Flynn had talked by telephone with Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak.
The cabal member who raised this alarm most energetically was Deputy Attorney General Sally Yates. It's almost certain that Yates was involved in leaking this Logan Act nonsense to The Washington Post, which published the story as it were a serious concern.
There is an assumption that the Flynn-Kislyak phone conversation was recorded by US Intelligence because Kislyak's communications were intercepted routinely. However, it's likely that the phone conversation was recorded because Flynn was being investigated by the FBI. The actual reason for the recording of the Flynn-Kislayk phone conversation by US Intelligence remains a mystery that the US Government should explain.
From the Wikipedia article on Andrey Vyshinsky:
Vyshinsky recommended that investigators and judges consider "the wider social perspective" of each individual case in the context of class struggle. As a result, an actual commission of a crime was not required for conviction: people could have been convicted for being perceived as bourgeois ("class responsibility") or simply if that was considered to be beneficial for the Communist Party, for example in the "educational" role of the judicial system (thus, the importance of show trials, even with completely false accusations).
It all comes back to Obama. Liberals destroy lives.
“Moreover, Brady is generally considered a trial right, not a pre-trial right. Circuits are split on this and the SCt has not weighed-in in recent memory. Whether there was a good faith basis to begin the investigation is irrelevant. Most investigations begin with nothing more than a hunch. The hunch is then investigated to determine if the subject has violated any laws.”
The key though is that at the time that Strzok and partner went over to the WH under false pretenses, to spring the perjury trap on Flynn, there was not enough evidence to formally open an investigation against him. Thus, his supposed misstatements could not be material, and thus criminal.
Making Brady material strictly a trial right, and not a pretrial right would seem to eviscerate its effect. You only get to see what evidence the government has against you in court? How can you prepare for trial? Or even decide whether or not to accept a proffered plea agreement without full knowledge of the evidence the government has against you? How can your plea agreement be knowing and voluntary, when critical evidence has nit been made available to the defendant? Nevertheless, the prosecution appears to have made just that argument, and it might have worked with another judge. They seemed to have tried to structure the deal so that Flynn went almost immediately from a mere suspect, to an admitted felon, with no time intervening that could require Brady disclosures. Moreover the provision in the plea agreement that supposedly obviated their Brady duties appeared to be carefully tailored to make sure that they didn’t have to disclose any exonerating evidence. And, of course, after Flynn plead guilty, they no doubt believed that they were home free, since the plea deal meant no trial, and, thus, no Brady rights. But they drew the wrong judge here, one whom some of these prosecutors had tried the same gambit in front of before in high profile cases. And his standing court rules required Brady submissions, regardless, and that the prosecutors affirm that they had done supplied them. Nicely circumventing the defense that you proposed, and that was tried, and rejected, by the Flynn prosecutors.
The RussiaGate hoax has demonstrated that DOJ/FBI uses the Foreign Agent Registration Act (FARA) arbitrarily and abusively.
In regard to people whom DOJ/FBI does not want to torment, DOJ/FBI merely provides a reminder to register. During the Obama Administration, an example would be John Podesta.
In contrast, in regard to people whom DOJ/FBI positively does want to torment, DOJ/FBI uses FARA in order to crush people into submission. A good example is Michael Flynn, who was threatened with 15 years in prison for inconsequential actions.
FARA should be reformed in order to prevent DOJ/FBI from abusing and crushing people whom it arbitrarily does not like. DOJ/FBI should be required to begin by reminding and warning people to comply. Also DOJ/FBI should not presume criminal intent and should have to prove criminal intent in legal proceedings.
Furthermore, the entire further existence of FARA should be examined critically. Exactly why do "foreign agents" need to "register" in our modern, global economy?
Michael Flynn's alleged violation of the Foreign Agent Registration Act (FARA) was that he contracted to lobby on behalf of a Turkish businessman who lived and operated in Holland. Supposedly, Flynn was supposed to know that this businessman was a secret agent of the Turkish Government and that Flynn therefore was lobbying indirectly for the Turkish Government.
The US Government did not have compelling proof that the Turkish businessman in Holland actually was a secret agent of the Turkish Government. Furthermore, the US Government did not have compelling proof that Flynn should have known that the Turkish businessman was a secret agent.
When the US Government put Flynn's business partner on trial, the judge threw the case out because there was no such proof.
Flynn was a fool for not fighting the charges in court. If he had done so, he would have prevailed just as his business partner prevailed.
It would be a fraud on the court
This seems to have become business as usual.
This Flynn stuff infuriates me.
Even if you want to believe the FBI as an organization is good, would never do this, and even if you want to believe that no FBI agent would do these kinds of things intentionally, and even if you want to give each agent and each action the benefit of the doubt (well, it “could have” been an innocent mistake, etc), even if you do all that ...
This should NEVER fucking happen in the USA.
If this was a case where a black man was treated this way on a local robbery case, you’d have lefty press all over it about police tactics, oppression, racism, equal justice under the law, due process etc... and they should.
Is this really any different ? He was white and powerful/connected. But he got railroaded. No one should. If they can do it to him they can do it to you!
Everyone should be shouting for heads to roll over this...
Although Michael Flynn was a three-star general and was the Director of the Defense Intelligence Agency, he was inexplicably foolish in his defense against the legal charges against him.
Flynn should have pleaded innocent of the charges related to his phone conversation with Russian Ambassador Sergei Kislyak.
And Flynn should have pleaded innocent of the charges related to his lobbying for the Turkish businessman who was headquartered in Holland.
Somehow, Flynn was manipulated by his lawyers into pleading guilty to the charges in both matters.
I suspect that there was some truth in an unrelated accusation that Flynn was involved with a Russian immigrant woman who lived in England and who translated for him occasionally. If flynn was involved romantically with her, then his fear of that being exposed might have been the real reason why he caved so cravenly on various charges.
" But I hate the fact that he always pulls his punches." This is by design. Andy is there to always act so darn confused to how a thing like this could have happened and had Trump's tone been better or more reserved blah, blah, blah. This would not change the fact the swamp DOJ & FBI tried launching for a soft coup against Trump but they were clearly too incompetent to pull it off.
From a lawyer friend who spent a number of years in the DOJ; now very successful in the private sector:
I figured this was where this was going all along. I don't think he lied and I don't think if he did it was a material false statement, which is what is needed for it to be a crime. More important, the Agents conducting the interview didn't think he lied either. i think he was definitely set up because he knows where the bodies are buried and the intel community did not want him in a position to dig them up.
He only plead guilty because they threatened to prosecute his son (not in itself improper if the son had criminal exposure) and because he was running out of funds to defend himself. His first lawyers did not serve him well and had a conflict as well.
I hope that Sally Yates gets drawn into this. She was definitely a part of the plot and should share the consequences.
Why should any of us ever believe there will be justice for these goons? If that were the case, Robert Mueller would already have been in prison for the shenanigans related to Whitey Bulger and that entire sordid travesty.
Eric Weinstein, on his podcast, has repeatedly made calls for a second Church Committee to do a complete examination of the DOJ, FBI & CIA. Each time Weinstein calls for it, he bolsters the case with more evidence. This will not happen under a Biden Administration, so one must hope for Trump's reelection
"I hope that Sally Yates gets drawn into this. She was definitely a part of the plot and should share the consequences."
If it was within my power, Sally Yates and all those other liberal crooked obamanites would rot in prison and not to exclude the biggest, sorriest and the most despicable one that some of you dummies were waiting for.
The practice of threatening to prosecute someones relatives in order to obtain confessions, etc. - that strikes me as extremely dirty pool.
Why you tolerate it I don't know.
If prosecutors have a case to make against anyone they should make it, it should not hinge on whether someone else cooperates on some other case.
Sebastian said ... I think a little collective self-congratulation is in order.
With regard to Flynn, and the Russia collusion hoax, and the impeachment hoax, and the WuFlu panic, the right-thinking side of the commentariat here has been right all along, with Bruce H in the vanguard. Our deplorable skepticism served us well. Ever single thing on which we called BS has turned out to be BS. There are MSM commentators who did well -- say, Kim Strassel -- but not that many.
Do not forget Mollie Hemingway and John Solomon.
I think you are correct about people here with "deplorable skepticism". We deserve some credit.
This is only a weigh point in the journey, not the end. Corruption is still ongoing. Lots of these documents are still redacted, and lots of documents have yet to be released by the FBI. While you could blame Wray for his continued corruption, AG Barr has the power to make it happen with a simple letter. Why is Barr holding back? Giving lots of rope to the corrupt actors, so the sudden stop at the end of the rope is sure to be fatal? Seems to melodramatic, Lets finish this up in a business like matter and start the trials. No plea bargains, unless documents exist with Obama's signature on them. Even that will not be enough to tarnish the media created halo.
Funny that President Trump is fully responsible for strategic inventories of medical supplies be restocked from the previous administration, but Obama's name will be absent any discussion of how corrupt the entire DoJ operates. Above Obama's pay grade, it never made the NYT so Obama is absolved of responsibility.
Blogger buwaya said..."But in perspective it is a very minor detail. Even the corruption of the FBI is just a detail. I get that the FBI was corrupt, but a government-flipping coup attempt is beyond old boundaries. This stuff is just the expected churn of skirmishes in an ongoing war, of massive scope and significance, and this war is a new thing."
I think this is right.
If I'm sitting on a jury and FBI agents testify as to the guilt of the accused, I'm voting not guilty, due to corruption of the FBI, bottom to top.
I'm still waiting for that one honest FBI agent to come forward in all this. Still waiting.
I think there's a very good chance that any high level federal prosecutor has bent or broken the rules because he felt it was in the best interests of justice or because he was simply corrupt.
It could be dangerous for a person formerly in such a position to call those currently in such positions corrupt.
Andrew McCarthy was a high level federal prosecutor. He's been useful, but careful, in his reporting on this subject.
Better than nothing, I guess.
What did you expect? Everyone but Flynn was a lawyer. And gee where are all the "good" feds? Any whistle blowers in the FBI? No the club don't break ranks, their retirement association very powerful, good jobs await after 20 years and keeping your mouth shut.
This is a big reason why I won't vote for Democrats or RINOs. Not only are they corrupt, but their corruption is ignored, covered up and /or downplayed by our partisan media.
BTW I'm not saying that I think there are no corrupt players in the GOP, just that they are much less likely to get away with it, and they are punished if caught.
These corrupt bastards that set up Flynn to get at Trump, and the ones who lied to FISA to spy on Carter Page to get at Trump, etc, etc, need to be prosecuted and serve time, and the media needs to applaud the arrests. Until then the Dem party is dead to me, as is the corrupt media.
Believe it or not but Trump's administration will probably be the least corrupt in history, because everyone is investigating him and his people all the time! Anyone who is really anti-corruption needs to vote for Trump.
The persecution of Michael Flynn was not "an honest mistake".
This persecution was deceptive, malicious and devious.
We are living in a police state. You have no rights. Submit or die.
"to server jail time."
Freudian slip. Maybe they could serve it in a bathroom in Chautauqua.
Re: Intelligence agency failures, Full of Soup asks, "Other than those tiny miscues, what do you got?"
How about the collapse of the Soviet Union, Saddam's invasion of Kuwait, Cambodia's Killing Fields, the Rwandan Genocide, the Bay of Pigs invasion, ISIS conquering Northern Iraq in one week, the Ayatollah seen as an improvement over the Shah of Iran, and the NORKS getting nukes?
The hits just keep on coming, loyal listeners!
At least their track record is consistent.
It's possible, Mike Sylwester, that Flynn is a fool or acted foolishly. However, if he is not a fool, just what do you think the DOJ/FBI guys did to get him to plead to charges so risible and flimsy that they got tossed from court in his former biz partner's case?
The "Russian Immigrant Women" sued Halper for defamation, but it was tossed out by a US Judge (Clinton Appointee):
https://thefederalist.com/2020/03/02/judge-tosses-defamation-suit-in-svetlana-lokhova-spygate-case/
Mike Sylwester said...
>Russian immigrant woman
Multiple government agents were/are actively complicit in overturning and election and ruining lives and jail terms for innocent people. You would think that of the many, many "frontline investigative journalists" that this country has ONE would see and grab the opportunity to make history by reporting on the gravest crime ever against the Constitution since the nations' founding. Many should hang for treason. That is blatantly evident.
The failure of any prosecution of the perpetrators of this coup strongly suggests to me that the lives and families of Barr and Durham and others in a position to push prosecution have been threatened. And evidence has been destroyed and pacts made by the perps to not rat each other out. I mean the entire thing smells like another conspiracy. The fix is in and we will never see any meaningful prosecution. The deep state has won. They have not gotten rid of Trump. But he will be gone in four years anyway and they will make sure that no one of his likes ever gets in power again.
Many need to swing. Treason, sedition. MANY.
Time for people to hang
daskol at 3:20 PM
just what do you think the DOJ/FBI guys did to get him to plead to charges
As I have said before, I suspect that Flynn was involved romantically with that Russian woman and that he was afraid the affair might be revealed if he defended himself against the charges.
That's just my speculation, for which I do not have any evidence.
It's my own explanation for why Flynn caved on all the charges.
Wow! It’s common knowledge now that the FBI is a blackmail and coverup tool used by the wealthy’s politicians as a force multiplier against honest people that fight back. This time it was to silence Flynn who knew about child trafficking operations.
<"The key though is that at the time that Strzok and partner went over to the WH under false pretenses, to spring the perjury trap on Flynn">
"Perjury trap" remains a figment of defense attorneys imagination. No court has yet reversed a conviction because of it.
<"Making Brady material strictly a trial right, and not a pretrial right would seem to eviscerate its effect. You only get to see what evidence the government has against you in court? How can you prepare for trial? Or even decide whether or not to accept a proffered plea agreement without full knowledge of the evidence the government has against you? How can your plea agreement be knowing and voluntary, when critical evidence has nit been made available to the defendant?">
Prosecutors are required to disclose Brady material far enough in advance for the defense to be able to use it -- at trial. My personal practice and the one my district insisted on was to disclose Brady as soon as it was discovered. There have been proposals to make Brady a pre-trial right, but that hasn't become the law yet.
But knowledge of the evidence the gov't has against a defendant does not implicate Brady because the evidence is typically inculpatory, rather than exculpatory. For disclosure of incriminating evidence, Rule 16 governs and courts have wide discretion as to the timing of the disclosures. My practice (and the one my office insisted on) was to disclose all evidence early. Not only is this fairer to defendants but prosecutors want to avoid a trial if possible. One of the better ways to accomplish this is to play with all your cards facing up, showing the defendant the mountain of evidence you have against him.
That said, it seems clear to me that the Mueller gang did not view discovery as generously as I did (or my district).
<"Flynn IMO likely has little chance of withdrawing his guilty plea, unless the gov't agrees to it." Wouldn't "the gov't" be William Barr, if he were so inclined?> Of course.
"to server jail time." HAH! Yeah i meant 'serve time' but yeah quite freudian.
Read this on Catherine Herridege's Twitter page re: Flynn's original law firm):
Covington (former attorneys) just filed motion to submit more case files to Flynn’s current lawyers after “correcting the error made as a result of the miscommunication...This effort yielded...approx. 6,800 documents and emails (including attachments)
6,800
she was a whistleblower against sberbank, and a historian in her own right,
Mike Sylwester said...
The persecution of Michael Flynn was not "an honest mistake".
This persecution was deceptive, malicious and devious.
The interview was deceptive, malicious and devious, Everthing that happened after the FBI left Flynns office was an active coup attempt. Treason.
the crime of betraying one's country, especially by attempting to kill the sovereign or overthrow the government.
Flynn’s former counsel just found 6800 pages of evidence that were not Turned over to his current counsel...
https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2020/04/28/former-flynn-counsel-finds-6800-new-pages-of-evidence-not-turned-over-judge-sullivan-is-not-amused/
<"I don't think he lied and I don't think if he did it was a material false statement, which is what is needed for it to be a crime. More important, the Agents conducting the interview didn't think he lied either.">
As to the first point, Flynn did plead guilty and I'm sure a thorough Rule 11 colloquy took place to insure the plea was knowingly and voluntarily entered. Flynn would know it he were guilty or not. And he admitted in open court that he was guilty and he allocuted to the pertinent facts.
For the second point, it's really irrelevant. Although that would surely qualify as Brady material, Brady does not do away with the rules of evidence. The agents would not be permitted to offer their opinion on whether a particular statement made by Flynn to the agents was or was not a lie. That sort of testimony is barred by Rule 608 and very likely barred as well by Rule 704.
If there were a trial and after Flynn testified, a witness can give his opinion of the witness's (Flynn) character for truthfulness. But that would be dangerous for Flynn. Although the agents may have been of the opinion that Flynn did not lie to them, his character for truthfulness is the issue, not a particular statement. It is not difficult to imagine the agents testifying that they believed Flynn was not a truthful person, despite believing he did not lie to them when they interviewed Flynn.
just what do you think the DOJ/FBI guys did to get him to plead to charges so risible and flimsy that they got tossed from court in his former biz partner's case?
Is it possible that you just awakened from four year nap ? I thought only leftists believed that history began each morning. Do you ?
With all the examples of FBI malfeasance and screw ups, we forgot to mention Nakatomi Plaza.
Moondawggie: "Re: Intelligence agency failures, Full of Soup asks, "Other than those tiny miscues, what do you got?"
How about the collapse of the Soviet Union, Saddam's invasion of Kuwait, Cambodia's Killing Fields, the Rwandan Genocide, the Bay of Pigs invasion, ISIS conquering Northern Iraq in one week, the Ayatollah seen as an improvement over the Shah of Iran, and the NORKS getting nukes?
The hits just keep on coming, loyal listeners!
At least their track record is consistent."
Spot. On.
The only guys in the intel community worth a darn are the tactical, ex-military operators out in the field supporting the real world troopers.
The OSS in WWII was competent enough but as soon as our CIA went the full MI6 (hurrumph hurrumph only the best from the Ivies will do laddies) mode they were lost.
These "elites" have failed us for 70 years.
"…suddenly today Covington & Burling discover an additional 6,800 pages of evidence they conspicuously omitted."
I think Michael Flynn's oft-noted money problems are a thing of the past.
And, looke here: "former U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder is a partner at Covington & Burling."
I noted these details because I researched two years before when she had sued sberbank,
Has any of this been reported in the MSM?
Sincere question for the room. Since so many of us are, and have been, on the same page regarding the FBI, when it comes to Flynn, Trump, Russia collusion, etc. (and this applies to other agencies, but let's just focus on the FBI)...
What if Trump were to just spell out everything? Would that be effective? He could give an Oval Office speech and just put all the cards on the table. No more tweets about "the Storm is coming," no more innuendos about the Deep State, no more "tick tocks" from Hannity and others. Just complete transparency.
For example, when did he find out his campaign was being spied upon? Was it Rogers at the NSA? Was the Trump Tower meeting with his son a set up, and if so what evidence does he have? Etc. If Trump were to just spell out the whole thing to the American people, would that be effective? He has a captive audience of millions stuck at home. Maybe now is the time to do it.
I realize that might affect the legal procedures at the AG's office, but like most people here, I don't think anything is going to come of it. Why not just speak the truth, and let the chips fall where they may? I'm curious what other commenters think, since these corners of the Internet are rare.
https://babalublog.com/2020/04/28/surprise-joe-biden-promises-to-resurrect-obamas-monstrously-stupid-cuba-policy/#comments
Ralph L: "Has any of this been reported in the MSM?"
Negative.
And it won't be until after Flynn is exonerated where the MSM will put it on page eleventy-gajillion in tiny print so they can say they covered it yet 99.9% of all dems/lefties/LLR-lefties will continue to believe Flynn was a traitor.
That's one reason I want Trump to renominate Flynn after the exoneration so the media have to cover the story so they explain to their mushroom-like readers why it is that a "known" Traitor/russian spy/criminal suddenly isn't so russian-spy-y or criminal-y or traitor-y.
Inga and ARM and Freder will have about 7.8 meltdowns each when that happens.
I've been a proud "right winger" for 60 years, and the "right wing" in this country used to be the "law and order" wing. We used to be pro-FBI. And pro-the-cop-on-the-beat of course. We knew that there were abuses -- some of the stuff J. Edgar did were pretty unsavory (and I'm not talking about his personal life) -- but it was in the good cause of protecting us from criminals and other bad actors. Now in this thread and others I read comments by people I take to be right-wingers like me who want to eliminate the FBI and fire, prosecute, and/or execute a lot of FBI personnel. That's the stuff we used to hear from the radical Left. What changed? It can't just be the Flynn case, or Strock and his girl friend, or whatever. Can it? Is there something more?
"Why not just speak the truth, and let the chips fall where they may? I'm curious what other commenters think, since these corners of the Internet are rare"
I had just presumed that Trump will decide to go all "Sampson Option" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samson_Option should he fail winning a 2nd term. He knows he has no one other than his family circle he can rely on in Washington, not even his own party. Trump's reluctance to just say "fuck it" and spill the beans means a lot of things collapsing at once (which he would have to shoulder and deal with)as satisfying as that might be.
I have given up hope AG Barr is actually one of the white hats but a swampish character that is trying to keep the swamp from committing suicide. Should Trump declassify everything, the whole charade will collapse. Half of the country will decide its a complete joke to participate voting or following the rules. (Spoiler Alert:Rules are for saps)
Huge corruption scandal - no media coverage at all.
Then again- Hillary is being pimped for her drool session over Tera Reide's finger bang rapist - and the media continue to ignore what looks like a real scandal for Quid Pro Joe.
Then again- the media don't care about Hunter Biden's daddy made power wealth.
Blogger Drago said...
Recall also that Inga did not hesitate to call this 33 year Marine Corps General a traitor.
--------------===============
don't worry Inga - u is in exalted company >>>>>>>>> Judge Sullivan also called Flynn a traitor.
Deep Plumber is doing yeoman's work. Obama/Biden/Clinton's Water Closet progresses.
Andrew said ... What if Trump were to just spell out everything? Would that be effective?
Andrew me laddy. Such a fine boy, but so naive.
The DNC/Media/Deep State apparatus has a hold on information and the way it is transmitted. Even if John Durham has absolutely convincing evidence of grossly illegal behavior on the part of Obama's minions, it would go the way of the Clinton impeachment.
Blogger daskol said...
It's quite scary to think that a guy like Flynn, decades in the military and intelligence service most recently as a general officer and senior executive, can get railroaded in the way that he did. He's an insider and Flynn doesn't strike me as the kind of guy who scares easy.
-------------================
Remember - That he started this ball rolling when he agreed to a :friendly chat: in the White House and FBI told him he did not need to have lawyer present.
and he is/was NSA chief >>> in his case N=naive not National
It is probably a good thing he is not there anymore >>>> coup plotters must have been sounding him out to flip him against Trump and found him wanting or suddenly conscious stricken.
"What changed?"
Taking down a duly elected president is not some "abuses", Godfather. This is truly dangerous, end-of-the-republic type stuff.
McCarthy's article and some comments here imply that Flynn's former lawyers were incompetent or corrupt in advising him to take the plea deal and admit to lying. Margot Cleveland, writing in the Federalist, identifies those lawyers: "One week later, Flynn fired his Covington & Burling lawyers, Robert Kelner and Stephen Anthony, and replaced them with Powell." https://thefederalist.com/2020/04/27/robert-muellers-case-against-michael-flynn-is-about-to-implode/
Althouse,
This is the fine-tuned government behavior you were looking for.
Do you like it?
What changed? It can't just be the Flynn case, or Strock and his girl friend, or whatever. Can it? Is there something more?
How far do you want to go back? Bundy standoff? steven Hatfill? Richard Jewell? Elian Gonzales? Waco? Ruby Ridge? At some point don't the dots start to connect? At some point doesn't it seem that the federal law agencies that are supposed to enforce the law seem to believe they are above the law?
Now in this thread and others I read comments by people I take to be right-wingers like me who want to eliminate the FBI and fire, prosecute, and/or execute a lot of FBI personnel. That's the stuff we used to hear from the radical Left. What changed? It can't just be the Flynn case, or Strock and his girl friend, or whatever. Can it? Is there something more?
The FBI has a history of 25 years of fuckups. That's around the time my daughter went through the academy.
The FBI used to only hire lawyers and accountants to be agents. She is a lawyer who passed the Bar in two states. The people she went through the Academy with were not lawyers and accountants. They were mostly ex-military and state police and other bureaucrat types. One woman who was in her class intimidated her because she had a PhD and spoke a bunch of languages. At the end of the class they had a simulation exercise like we do with medical students. Instead of having to make a diagnosis, the FBI candidates had to do an arrest of this actor who portrayed a white collar criminal who suddenly gets violent when being arrested.
Kate kept her cool and did the exercise satisfactorily. The woman who had impressed her so much had a melt down under stress and collapsed in a crying jag,
The FBI has had lab scandals and they started a new computer system 15 years ago that was supposed to let agents all over the country access the same files and work as a team. After ten years and about $15 billion, they gave up and started over.
This is not the "G Men" of movie fame. It's one more DC bureaucracy. The field agents are OK but the DC bureau is corrupt to the bottom.
Would someone explain why for the last 10-40 years every obvious violation of the Logan Act is/was hand-waved away with "Haha the Logan act, no one get prosecuted for THAT" and Yates making a big deal out of Flynn violating the Logan Act?
BTW, Christopher Wray biggest booster was Chris Christie. In case you're wondering.
>>Many need to swing. Treason, sedition. MANY.
This is never going to happen. Never. No one is going to get arrested. No one is going to trial. No one will ever serve a day in jail.
Nobody.
That's the way it works. There is one law for the aristocracy, and one for the rest of us.
Ask any Kennedy or Clinton to explain it to you.
Barr has to move much much quicker.
Not a Leftist Collectivist on this thread.
Odd, that, until you consider that buwaya is correct.
As soon as you see the war that is happening, the more inevitable these things become.
Let's not forget FBI "sniper" Lon Horiuchi. Why the Hell does the FBI need someone with sniper in their job description?
Horiuchi, from cover, with no warning, murdered Randy Weaver's wife as she stood on the porch holding their baby.
He retired eventually and still draws his pension.
In a just world he would be in the Florence supermax for the rest of his life.
John Henry
"That's the way it works. There is one law for the aristocracy, and one for the rest of us.
Ask any Kennedy or Clinton to explain it to you."
That's why they work so hard to get into the aristocracy. Caste closed.
Barr is running out the clock of Trump's term.
I didn't think that before, but he's playing like he's throwing the game.
If Trump is reelected he will probably have to slow roll a few token prosecutions, to keep appearances.
If Trump loses, the charade is over.
If he does not have enough evidence now to put some heads on pikes he never will, or had never wanted to.
Running out the clock.
I am Laslo.
"Would someone explain why for the last 10-40 years every obvious violation of the Logan Act is/was hand-waved away with "Haha the Logan act, no one get prosecuted for THAT" and Yates making a big deal out of Flynn violating the Logan Act?"
It was the tool she needed.
"He retired eventually and still draws his pension. "
I wonder if Horiuchi is proud of that achievement -- the only lasting achievement in his life. He probably is. That's the thing about those bad apple FBI guys. They get so smug.
Blogger Birkel said..."Not a Leftist Collectivist on this thread.
Odd, that, until you consider that buwaya is correct.
As soon as you see the war that is happening, the more inevitable these things become."
They're silent because they actually want these kinds of criminals back in power.
They are silent because they choose to believe all the crap the leftwing maddow-Clinton lie machine feed them.
The mills of the gods grind slowly,
But they grind exceeding fine...
I hope. BTW, I think Flynn took their threat against his son seriously because he knew they were perfectly willing to create false evidence, since they did it to him.
Blogger John henry said...
Let's not forget FBI "sniper" Lon Horiuchi.
------------=============
Barr was very supportive of Horiuchi actions
Horiuchi and Barr
" [General Flynn] was definitely set up because he knows where the bodies are buried and the intel community did not want him in a position to dig them up." And he pleaded guilty because he was bankrupt, unable to pay for lawyers, had in any case been betrayed by those lawyers he bankrupted himself to pay for, and saw his son threatened with prison.
I also think that he was weighed upon by knowing how much corruption existed and how little of it people were aware of. And that's the position of some of the commenters here - mine included. If you speak quietly and rationally - who listens? If you scream - same number hear you but you are discredited for the future. What to do? We cannot "burn down the FBI" and we cannot give up on America as if history will stop while we sob in a corner. If we give up, I am now sure, the corruptocrats will come to power but then the Chinese will take over from them, openly. Things can be worse.
It's my opinion that Donald Trump decided that he had to keep the nation together if he could and that meant following what HHS proposed. It's my opinion that Pelosi has said that small businesses will get no money out unless New York and Chicago's debts are paid (by taxes collected from those same small businesses) and paid without without any reforms being enacted.
The Dems are beyond rotten, running a obvious fool while the nation faces a crisis. But we don't know the future any more. Things have changed. China is regarded with suspicion. The US realizes it must repatriate manufacturing. The country was kept running by workers in the groceries, drug stores, banks, gas stations and hospitals and the truckers and other parts of the essential supply chain as organized by Trump and his Task Force. We have food because of the farmers and gas because of the frackers. At no point did the media make a substantial contribution, nor did Hollywood nor did the schools and universities. They weren't cheerleaders and they had no ideas and they did no work. Perhaps China and the Coastie Non-Essentials think they will simply resume their sway. That they'll call the people shown to be essential, deplorables, again without penalty.
I don't know what's going to happen. But I am sure it won't be the same. Maybe we're winning (we means we who knew Flynn was innocent years ago), maybe it's ...different from either side before. I feel it's a time for me to listen to the people who just did the job.
My model/prism for viewing USA floundering and foundering under FBI/DOJ shananigans is how Miles Vorkosigan successfully solves the mystery to save Simon Ilyan after his "eidetic quasi organic memory chip' is sabotaged by his second in command in Memory
It is a great read. lots of information about microbiology and bioweapons too
Memory
short novella where Miles is forced to grow up and decide his life course
Mountains of Mourning
If we get rid of the FBI do we then have to get along with no federal law enforcement agency, or do we establish a new federal law enforcement agency and make its agents swear an oath to honor the Constitution -- and tell them we really mean it this time?
If we get rid of the FBI
We need to be wary of indulging diversitist thought and practice. There is no reason to assume that this moral/ethical contagion was carried and transmitted by more than a minority.
Godfather, many of us would just settle for an FBI that recorded it's interviews like other police agencies and simply followed the law like the rest of us. Apparently thats too big of an ask.
Andrew said...
I realize that might affect the legal procedures at the AG's office, but like most people here, I don't think anything is going to come of it. Why not just speak the truth, and let the chips fall where they may? I'm curious what other commenters think, since these corners of the Internet are rare.
I think there are forces that are much greater than most of us are willing to admit are at play.
Trump knows this is life and death for him. If he loses then Quadafi's fate awaits him and his family.
And he is up against the all of the money and institutional power in the world.
Trump's main problem is that people in the US are fat and happy. I have kids. I will not be happy until we make furniture out of the skins of half the people in DC. But I have a wife who has to agree and kids I am responsible for.
Trump is trying to win the election and I think he is doing a good job at that.
But he is up against people who will not be stopped by elections.
Trump is on a razor's edge. I do not envy him.
I wonder if Robspierre felt bad about sending Danton to the guillotine.
Laslo Spatula said...
Barr is running out the clock of Trump's term.
I didn't think that before, but he's playing like he's throwing the game.
If Trump is reelected he will probably have to slow roll a few token prosecutions, to keep appearances.
If Trump loses, the charade is over.
If he does not have enough evidence now to put some heads on pikes he never will, or had never wanted to.
Running out the clock.
I am Laslo.
I am starting to lean this way.
Barr worked with these same people for decades. While they were pulling all of this shit.
It strains credulity he will hang the people who need to hang.
Trump better remember where his support comes from.
Look at Barr's resume'-- he's knee deep in the Deep State himself and is treading a fine line: he has to please Trump while giving away as little of the DS game as possible.
I wish I thought differently, but it's the only explanation that makes sense to me.
Narr
He's compromised or he wouldn't have been confirmed
"Godfather, many of us would just settle for an FBI that recorded it's interviews …"
That right there would be a damn good start. What a fucking travesty.
What was done to Flynn is incredibly horrifying. And, it’s amazing to me he had such bad legal counsel. His lawyers asked for none of the documents that nearly any other attorney would have asked for. Of course you ask for the 301 notes. For someone at that level of government to not mount any defense is staggering and that suggests to me that his first attorneys were complicit.
Now he has effective counsel. He needs to call the US attorney from Missouri to testify as to what he’s found. Between this and the FISA abuses, tar and feathers seem appropriate.
Does anybody notice how the lawyers speak/write of rules?
Not a single one of those sons of bitches speak/write about right or wrong.
None of them speak/write about justice or truth.
If you are writing about Brady Rules w/rt the federal rules and not the purpose of those rules: fuck off!
Come first fight me, you worthless fucking shitstains on the backside of civilization.
You worthless pukes have forgotten your pledge, your solemn vow, to the state and country.
You should resign your licenses because you have forgotten your purposes.
Tom:
Bad counsel for whom?
I think you are asking the wrong questions, no offense intended.
it’s amazing to me he had such bad legal counsel.
Doesn't amaze me at all if that scumbag Eric Holder was part of it.
If the Covington & Burling firm was operating as a tentacle of the DNC while being paid big money to represent the General, is that merely a tort, or is it actually a crime? Seems to me to fit the definition of fraud.
"Godfather, many of us would just settle for an FBI that recorded it's interviews …"
What prevents Trump doing this tomorrow morning by executive order? Let the FBI scum try to defend their current corrupt practice in the public eye.
Barr is navigating a mine field, and if he does not have beyond rock solid case, he will not get convictions. The people he are dealing with are super slippery. More has happened recently, that has made me hopeful. Barr is very careful on what he says. And the Flynn stuff would not have turned up , if it was not due to Barr's actions.
On a Negative Note:
And I am still waiting for the contents of Weiner's Laptop to be divulged.
Hopeful Note!
May be Judicial Watch will get all of Hillary's emails from Google!
"Running out the clock."
Perhaps. But Barr used unusually strong language in one of his latest interviews. The word "sabotage" was used, I believe. That doesn't sound like a deep-stater making nice with fellow deep-staters.
So! - a legitimate basis is because Mr. Flynn was apparently conducting foreign policy while another administration was in power, he might have violated the Logan Act. before the FBI could begin investigating felon Michael Flynn? How about General Flynn's interaction late in 2016 with Sergey Kislyak, the Russian ambassador to the United States, as the Obama administration was about to place sanctions on Russia for its election sabotage. Since Flynn was apparently conducting foreign policy while another administration was in power, he might well have violated the Logan Act.
Shortly thereafter, Flynn resigned as Trump's National Security Director after he was caught lying to Mike Pence and numerous other White House officials about his call with the Russian Ambassador. Eventually he pled guilty to lying to the FBI about the nature of his discussions with Kislyak and the Trump administration has made sure that the information was never released.
Flynn also worked for President Recep Tayyip Erdogan as an unregistered foreign agent - making $530,000 in the deal which involved attempting to have Muslim cleric Fethullah Gulen, a legal US resident, extradited back to Turkey. All this happened while Flynn worked for Trump.
Read the Mueller Report and note that earlier attempts to run this "Flynn is Innocent" fraud has already been rejected by Judge Emmett Sullivan.
"What prevents Trump doing this tomorrow morning by executive order? Let the FBI scum try to defend their current corrupt practice in the public eye."
Wish he would.
“As to the first point, Flynn did plead guilty and I'm sure a thorough Rule 11 colloquy took place to insure the plea was knowingly and voluntarily entered. Flynn would know it he were guilty or not. And he admitted in open court that he was guilty and he allocuted to the pertinent facts.”
I don’t think that you have been following this very carefully. The deal that Flynn was given was pleading guilty to lying to the FBI. He has testified that he didn’t think that he had lied in that conversation with the FBI, but the deal was to plead to it, and the DOJ would drop the FARA Charge (which was also bogus), and, more importantly, they would not charge his son with a FARA violation. Son, with a pregnant wife. And he was advised to take the plea, and admit to lying (even when he didn’t believe he had) by legal counsel who had been compromised by the DOJ prosecutors by also charging them with FARA violations.
“For the second point, it's really irrelevant. Although that would surely qualify as Brady material, Brady does not do away with the rules of evidence. The agents would not be permitted to offer their opinion on whether a particular statement made by Flynn to the agents was or was not a lie. That sort of testimony is barred by Rule 608 and very likely barred as well by Rule 704.”
So, how do they prove the specific intent required for their charge of lying to the FBI? Indeed, how do they prove that he lied in the first place?
Interestingly, during the previous summer (2016), Strzok’s partner in interviewing Flynn, Joe Pientka, was included in a discussion with Flynn, most likely to get a baseline reading on Flynn. FBI agents like Pientka are trained to detect lying, and he apparently, with that baseline reading, contemporaneously determined that Flynn did not appear to have been lying. The DOJ would have the burden of going forward with proof of lying, and that could be rebutted by Pientka’s and Strzok’s initial FD 302s. That means that neither 608 or 704 would apply.
“If there were a trial and after Flynn testified, a witness can give his opinion of the witness's (Flynn) character for truthfulness. But that would be dangerous for Flynn. Although the agents may have been of the opinion that Flynn did not lie to them, his character for truthfulness is the issue, not a particular statement. It is not difficult to imagine the agents testifying that they believed Flynn was not a truthful person, despite believing he did not lie to them when they interviewed Flynn.”
On what grounds would they testify that Gen Flynn didn’t have a truthful character? They didn’t know him, so it couldn’t be from personal knowledge. And if that were ever really the issue, Flynn could probably put hundreds of former officers on the stand that would testify to his truthful character. Which brings us back to their observations of him. But almost contemporaneously (probably within the required 48 or so hours) the two agents stated in their 302s that Flynn appeared to have testified honestly to them when they met in his offices in the WH. The 302s. that were hidden until just recently by the FBI and the prosecutors, in favor of 302s modified more than a month later, with the approval of the modifications by DD McCabe, that removed the very material statement that Flynn had not appeared to have been lying. So, how do they prove that he had lied to them without at least indirectly bringing in their FD 302s, and being impeached by their statement in the original 302s that he didn’t appear to have been lying to them?
" How about General Flynn's interaction late in 2016 with Sergey Kislyak, the Russian ambassador to the United States, "
He was the incoming National Security Advisor, for christ sakes.
You are in fantasy land, Gadfly. Reading your 12;24 was like reading some loony's account of the grassy knoll, complete with comments about the "well-known inaccuracy of Garand rifles," and the fury of the mafia at being kicked out of Cuba.
Pity you can't see it.
"It's not a conspiracy theory! Sure, it's a theory about a conspiracy, but it's not a conspiracy theory!"
Lol.
I am of course a broken record on this but:
Everything done in public affairs is a conspiracy. Conspiracy theorizing is the only realistic approach to understanding public affairs. We the public simply don't know and cannot know why decisions come out as they do. We arent the deciders, nor are we consulted by them, and we do not have visibility into the actual arguments and considerations that go into them. These things all go on behind curtains we cannot see behind.
Anyone who thinks that they are well informed on these matters by the mass media knows no history.
“So! - a legitimate basis is because Mr. Flynn was apparently conducting foreign policy while another administration was in power, he might have violated the Logan Act. before the FBI could begin investigating felon Michael Flynn? How about General Flynn's interaction late in 2016 with Sergey Kislyak, the Russian ambassador to the United States, as the Obama administration was about to place sanctions on Russia for its election sabotage. Since Flynn was apparently conducting foreign policy while another administration was in power, he might well have violated the Logan Act.”
You forget that the Logan Act is not a valid predicate, since it is acknowledged by most legal authorities to be unconstitutional, violative of the 1st Amdt. As has been regularly pointed out, this statute has been on the books for better than two centuries, and during that time, only used twice, both unsuccessfully, the most recent time better than 150 years ago. It has never been specifically rejected by a court on 1st Amdt grounds, because it would be an ethical violation to actually charge anyone with the statute, knowing it almost assuredly was unconstitutional.
Besides, Presidential transition teams inevitably build relationships with their opposite numbers from other countries during the transition. The alternative would be a wild scramble in the hours after an inauguration to build those relationships, very likely leaving the country open to mischance during that time. That means that Crooked Hillary and Obama’s NSA were almost assuredly in conversations with the Russian Ambassador during his transition, etc. and the Chinese Ambassador , etc. they all do it, and we want it to continue, because it is essential for a smooth transition.
Now if the Logan Act were actually enforceable, the person who most clearly violated it in recent times was Lurch Kerry, no longer Secretary of State, but still negotiating with the Iranian mullahs.
“Flynn also worked for President Recep Tayyip Erdogan as an unregistered foreign agent - making $530,000 in the deal which involved attempting to have Muslim cleric Fethullah Gulen, a legal US resident, extradited back to Turkey. All this happened while Flynn worked for Trump.”
You are talking a FARA violation of failing to register as a foreign agent. Flynn was probably not a foreign agent of Turkey. He did not believe that he was. This was based on advise of counsel. He went to a top tier law firm with expertise in this area for advice, and they told him he wasn’t a foreign agent. They may have been wrong, but probably weren’t. In any case, 99% of the time, violations of this statute are handled administratively, by filling out a form, and paying a small fine. The same DOJ people who charged Flynn and his partner criminally for violating this statute, had just let several extremely prominent Democrats, who were clearly operating as foreign agents, off with the customary hand slap. Oh, and the judge in the case against Flynn’s partner dismissed the FARA charges with prejudice, because they were so ridiculous.
Keep trying.
"Keep trying."
Sadly, that was poor Gadfly's best shot. I know, I know, I'm laughing too.
Should all plea agreements have a condition that any Brady violetions or other prosecutorial misconduct reverses and expunges?
Back when Obama was elected I warned you guys that you're not getting the first black president who would bring much needed light and freash air to DC. Iwarned that you were getting a corrupt Illinois pol. steeped in Chicago and Cook county corruption. From the most corrupt state in the country. I'll tell you now what I told you then.
Suckers.
I don't think Barr is running out the clock so much as just not having enough time to prosecute everything that should be prosecuted. That has been a concern of mine since the election - there is no way that all the shenanigans that occurred during the Obama years can be looked into. Not nearly enough time or resources, especially when having to actually run the country while also dealing with the Resistance, the Mueller report, impeachment.
My preference would be investigations, make the results public, but decline to prosecute, then go on to the next one. That way at least the worst offenses would be brought to light.
Emmett Sullivan says!
Narr
Apparently that's considered definitive for some simple minds
I distrust the National Review.
""Godfather, many of us would just settle for an FBI that recorded its interviews …"
That right there would be a damn good start. What a fucking travesty.
Necessary, but not remotely sufficient. What we also need is a 100% reciprocity in law between the agents of government and the rest of us--we citizens are, after all, supposed to be the ultimate sovereigns of the country. What this needs to mean in practice, for just one example, is that's it's just as much a crime for the FBI guy to lie to you as it is for you to lie to him.
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