Althouse: "Frankly, I would call it forcible imprisoning of people in their homes against all of their constitutional rights, in my opinion."

April 30, 2020

"Frankly, I would call it forcible imprisoning of people in their homes against all of their constitutional rights, in my opinion."

"It's breaking people's freedoms in ways that are horrible and wrong and not why they came to America or built this country. What the f---. Excuse me. Outrage. Outrage.... If somebody wants to stay in their house, that's great and they should be able to. But to say they cannot leave their house and that they will be arrested if they do, that's fascist. That is not democratic — this is not freedom. Give people back their goddamn freedom."

Said Elon Musk, quoted at Business Insider.

246 comments:

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exiledonmainstreet, green-eyed devil said...: So congrats Inga and Prole and Ken B and ARM: your view of freedom is apparently the same as being under Nazi occupation.

4/30/20, 9:53 PM

"Excuse me, officer, but I've seen lights on in the old Frank factory at night. And people moving around up there. I think there might be Jews there and that's against the law! I'm a good citizen. I obey all the laws!"

So easy, now, to see how it happened.; 4/30/20, 9:58 PM
Lewis Wetzel said...: Today's Left is not yesterday's Left. When I was a kid, in the 60s and 70s, the Left was horrified at the thought that the establishment -- the government and big corporations -- would govern intimate human relations. People should be free to explore human relationships and the world, especially forbidden human relationships and forbidden parts of the world. The worst thing you could be was a "conformist," meaning someone who followed society's rules without question. Watch _One Flew Over the Cuckoos Nest_, or _Silent Running_, or even _Willy Wonka_. These were films that celebrated the individuals who were non-conformist, made by Lefties.
Today's Left demands obedience to the diktats of state bureaucrats. If the state does not monitor and control even the most intimate relations between human beings, at a fine level, disaster will follow.
Look at these bozos today -- demanding obedience to arbitrary rules dreamed up by un-elected "public health experts" who have been proven wrong, time and time again.
They just want rules, they believe that rules will keep them safe. Lefties are all church ladies these days.; 4/30/20, 10:04 PM
Earnest Prole said...: Of course they do. They let illegals vote there.

You could say that. You could also say America’s quintessential Republican suburb isn’t so keen on the GOP anymore. But that’s a feature, not a bug, right?; 4/30/20, 10:08 PM
Vance said...: Two words about Orange County; ballot harvesting.

That’s why Orange County went Democrat: illegal ballot harvesting. Vote fraud for Prole. You must be so proud to support vote fraud.; 4/30/20, 10:13 PM
Lewis Wetzel said...: What is missing from the current pandemic lockdown is good ol' small-d democratic debate. The pro-lockdown people are tooting about various polls, at the state and national level, that show more than half of the people approve of the lockdown.
Well, a poll isn't a vote. Maybe I'm old-fashioned, but if the tradeoff is economic devastation for saving lives, I think that is a thing that should be voted on. It's good for the republic, otherwise the people making the decision will take the blame for the bad outcome, either way.
It is not as though we voted for this. My governor is term limited. He will never face the voters again.; 4/30/20, 10:14 PM
Earnest Prole said...: So congrats Inga and Prole and Ken B and ARM: your view of freedom is apparently the same as being under Nazi occupation.

Every indication is that the American people, not their leaders, led the shelter in place (with the exception of New York City), and the American people (with the exception of New York City) will now lead their leaders out of the shelter in place.; 4/30/20, 10:16 PM
I'm Not Sure said...: "The pro-lockdown people are tooting about various polls, at the state and national level, that show more than half of the people approve of the lockdown."

I'm not aware of anybody opposed to the lockdown, who is also in favor of forcing those who approve of the lockdown to have to leave their homes against their will. That being the case, why don't the pro people just stay home and leave everybody else alone?; 4/30/20, 10:19 PM
bagoh20 said...: "Trump’s social distancing policies are tyranny, then why aren’t you out there protesting, waving signs calling Trump a tyrant?"

I'm not aware of any legal mandate from Trump preventing me from exercising my rights to do anything. That's what non-tyranny looks like. He can have any opinion he wants, but tyrants don't just have opinions, They force you to follow them by force. They send cops after you, and tell citizens to snitch on you when you live and decide things as an adult and a free citizen. Oh, hell, what's the point? This is way over your head. You actually think people who support Trump care about a particular politician more than their rights, just because that how you think.; 4/30/20, 10:20 PM
Guildofcannonballs said...: Inga has dominated for a long time now here. Congrats on getting these folks so worked up they obey your need for their attention, and, even knowing it's bad, you simply compel them to address you day after day; to waste their days responding to whatever inanity of the moment you feel may satiate briefly your flights of fancy. You are a creature of your time.

Inga proves on another level why people need to obey religion, not their follies/folly's.

Only Joe Biden needs to be error free, as everyone knows everything about The Donald already.; 4/30/20, 10:27 PM
Guildofcannonballs said...: Anything bad about Trump, if such a thing exists, is old news.

OLD and gone. Bye bye bad. Took your shot, lost, now we all go flitfully by.

Now, Joe fuckin' Biden on the other hand....

That rapist has undergone some stress recently. It shows, he has surely known for quite some time. But he persists...; 4/30/20, 10:30 PM
Lewis Wetzel said...: That being the case, why don't the pro people just stay home and leave everybody else alone?
I spent a significant amount of time at a Zoom meeting today listening to people debate whether sufficient measures are being taken to disinfect company cars between drivers.
No one asked if there had ever been a confirmed case of covid-19 transmission from getting into a car an infected person had driven.
And these people were scientists.; 4/30/20, 10:33 PM
bagoh20 said...: Inga simply represents the fools we have to deal with around us, but to whom we can't really tell the truth, because they would throw the empty wine bottle at us. She serves a purpose.; 4/30/20, 10:34 PM
Guildofcannonballs said...: We must believe all women, not because women don't lie, duh, but because women have been so historically discriminated against, with the notable exception of members of the Muslim religion, Peace Be Upon Him, that women have been conditioned to accept rape as normal and not an actual crime.

It is up to us to find these victims who don't know they have in fact been raped and find out who has the money to make it go away.

Farmers all agree, if the state has given the money to farmers and insurance companies and on and on and on and on (thanks federalism) the state knows what's best.; 4/30/20, 10:37 PM
Hey Skipper said...: @Inga: “ Ha, from [Yancey Ward] who said that Covid deaths in TOTAL in the US wouldn’t top 7,500.”

It seems progressivism’s pre-requisite is galloping innumeracy. Let’s say that ultimately CCP19 causes 100,000 premature deaths. That means Yancey missed by 92,500. The smallest “expert” estimate at the time, 300,000, was more than three times further away from reality than Yancey was. IHME estimates for ICU, ventilator, and hospital bed demand have sunk like greased safes in the last five weeks.

Accusing him of being wrong is to hoist yourself on your own petard.

As your comment regarding Sweden shows, you do not understand the difference between rate and extent.

Oh, and one other thing. As others have noted, you made very nasty, and wholly wrong, accusations involving the Russian collusion (and, if memory serves, Kavanaugh).

You really need to own that.; 4/30/20, 10:43 PM
iowan2 said...: Earnest Prole said
Every indication is that the American people, not their leaders, led the shelter in place (with the exception of New York City), and the American people (with the exception of New York City) will now lead their leaders out of the shelter in place.
the p
Christ! That's the point I've been trying to drive into your thick skull. Law, mandates, executive orders mandates , are useless unless the people buy into it.

Sparsely populated Modoc County in California’s northeast corner plans to allow the reopening of its schools, hair salons, churches, restaurants and the county’s only movie theater Friday, becoming the first county in the state to ease out of stay-at-home orders and flout the governor’s mandate.
The dominoes are starting to fall. Newsom has the power he needs. He just can't use it.; 4/30/20, 10:54 PM
Vance said...: So let me tell you about the breadlines in my state. Thousands of people in a scene straight out of Moscow circa 1985. Why were they there? Lost jobs. Lost businesses. Lost hope. This is what the left wants for us all.; 4/30/20, 11:01 PM
Guildofcannonballs said...: What comments would a person post who believes: You idiots, you pay me, you idiots are so stupid, you pay me, you idiots are so so stupid you idiots pay me, you idiots are so stupid.

The attitude very well may be justified, as they say. A grifter has to look down on all the marks, otherwise the grift wouldn't have been so much fun.

I grew up with a black tomcat who toyed with mice, 'till one got away.; 4/30/20, 11:04 PM
Earnest Prole said...: Christ! That's the point I've been trying to drive into your thick skull. Law, mandates, executive orders mandates , are useless unless the people buy into it.

Then we're in violent agreement.; 4/30/20, 11:30 PM
Guildofcannonballs said...: Again I'll repeat, the best things about RBG and Harry Reid are they are mirrors and hence prove I can't be sexist or mysoginistic. Or however that last one is spelled. Misandry.; 4/30/20, 11:36 PM
Guildofcannonballs said...: Progunts.; 4/30/20, 11:39 PM
Guildofcannonballs said...: Progunt A says progunt B is out of whack, get the stirrups.; 4/30/20, 11:41 PM
Guildofcannonballs said...: Progocunto.; 4/30/20, 11:42 PM
Guildofcannonballs said...: Cuntolaprog.; 4/30/20, 11:43 PM
Earnest Prole said...: Vote fraud for Prole. You must be so proud to support vote fraud.

Why so excitable? Wipe the spittle from your beard and tuck your balls back in your shorts.

Trump took the side of ordinary working Americans over highly educated suburban voters. Orange County has a great deal of the latter and very few of the former. Surely you're not here to tell Donald Trump he miscalculated.; 4/30/20, 11:43 PM
Guildofcannonballs said...: "Tutu? So so." - Ronald Reagan; 4/30/20, 11:53 PM
Inga said...: “As your comment regarding Sweden shows, you do not understand the difference between rate and extent.”

My comment? That was a Trump tweet.; 4/30/20, 11:56 PM
Guildofcannonballs said...: Once you see progs as rodents, progunts makes all the sense it needs to make, and maybe even a little more.; 5/1/20, 12:03 AM
Lewis Wetzel said...: If only there were some way to use reason, and wisdom, and experience, to guide our actions!
But there isn't, so we have to trust our governors, who mostly went to an easy-A liberal arts college so they could go on to a mediocre law school.
Andrew Cuomo went to Fordham University, which has an acceptance rate of 50%. He then went to Albany law school (Ranked 106th by US News and World Report).
You might think that the news media would tell you that Andrew Cuomo is a mediocrity, a hack politician who got to where he is by family wealth and family connections. But they won't.
California's Gavin Newsom's father was a a Cali appeals court judge and an attorney for Getty Oil. Gavin Newsom eventually got a degree in poli-sci from Santa Clara University. Newsom got where is by wealth and family connections.
We are led by mediocrities.
I am not a mediocrity. I run my own life.; 5/1/20, 12:15 AM
Lewis Wetzel said...: Earnest Prole said...
. . .
Then we're in violent agreement.
Oh, no one could agree with you unless they are a nut case, but I expect you know that.
Hey, earnest prole, you still insisting no American risks arrest and detainment for stepping outside of their house?
Didn't think so.
What is your new modified fall-back position?; 5/1/20, 12:20 AM
buwaya said...: In fact Musk was already extremely wealthy, in the hundreds of millions, almost 20 years ago, from his software and internet ventures.

He had nothing to do with government contracts or subsidies then.

I am extremely impressed with SpaceX. I have been to their Hawthorn plant several times. If I were twenty years younger (and much smarter, to be fair), I would do all I can to get into that.; 5/1/20, 12:22 AM
buwaya said...: Santa Clara U isn't actually bad. Median Sat is 1360 which will get you into any UC. It's not Stanford, but what the heck.; 5/1/20, 12:27 AM
buwaya said...: "America’s quintessential Republican suburb isn’t so keen on the GOP anymore."

Thats because the population of Orange County has almost entirely turned over, these last 20 years. You know that, but you just want to be an ass.

I can detect American assh... locked down and from across the Atlantic Ocean! I impress myself sometimes.; 5/1/20, 12:32 AM
wbfjrr2 said...: I support Trump and will vote for him again. But he’s dead wrong on Sweden and I’m angry that he’s still listening to Fauci, a lifer mediocrity.

Here in AZ our moron republican Governor has extended us to mid May. Another mediocrity, and a cowardly one at that. Our hospitals are empty, going broke, laying off docs and nurses. Never came close to saturation.

It’s over 100 degrees here in Tucson, but, yeah we need to be shut down.the entire mostly empty state. Desert, you know? All because a few lefty mayors ganged up on him.

Doug Ducey, ball-less fuck. Same guy who appointed loser Martha McSally to an open Senate seat here after she lost to that loon Sinema.

I see idiots in my gated community in Tucson driving alone in their cars, mask on, windows up. Dumber than dumb. Cowardly sheep. Are they really that scared or just virtue signaling? Or both.; 5/1/20, 12:32 AM
Lewis Wetzel said...: Santa Clara is not bad, but it is mediocre. I am a UH Hilo graduate. But I am not trying to manage the fifth largest economy in the world.; 5/1/20, 12:34 AM
Earnest Prole said...: Thats because the population of Orange County has almost entirely turned over, these last 20 years. You know that, but you just want to be an ass.

Of course I know that; I'm merely attempting to break that news to somebody upthread.; 5/1/20, 12:42 AM
Gospace said...: Lewis Wetzel said...
That being the case, why don't the pro people just stay home and leave everybody else alone?
I spent a significant amount of time at a Zoom meeting today listening to people debate whether sufficient measures are being taken to disinfect company cars between drivers.
No one asked if there had ever been a confirmed case of covid-19 transmission from getting into a car an infected person had driven.
And these people were scientists.

Right now it's all public health theater as much as the TSA is security theater, not real security.Stopped for milk on the way home tonight, like I always do. And the clerk, as mandated by Dictator Cuomo, was wearing his mask. Behind a plexiglass screen. Wow. Double protection! I'm really safe for being exposed to him!

And in a few months, if not weeks, the price of everything will go up as result of the company spending all this money on things that don't contribute to the bottom line- but have to be paid for. They cannot absorb the costs forever.

I'm 64. I don't wear a mask in public despite Dictator Cuomo's unconstitutional edict. It doesn't protect me, and from wearing masks for work when necessary (dusty or dirty air) I know they interfere with my breathing. No thanks, I'll assume my own risks. That's what a citizen does- evaluates his own risks and acts accordingly.

I've repeatedly said the edicts coming from the tyrant governors such as Cuomo and Whitmer are arbitrary and capricious. Will closing boat ramps in NY prevent a single solitary covid19 death? The answer is an unequivocal NO!, yet, Dictator Cuomo has ordered them closed. Will a ban on tinted paint prevent a single solitary covid19 death. The answer is an unequivocal NO! Will the ban on selling seeds prevent a single solitary covid19 death? The answer is an unequivocal NO!.

As I said earlier, Chicago police shot a man for daring to move between train cars and defying their orders. Walter Ulbricht, who headed East Gemany during the construction of the Berlin Wall, would be awarding them medals for their dedication to following orders.; 5/1/20, 12:45 AM
Terry Ott said...: Tom said...
"Heading into the 3rd month of not being able to run my business (95% down in revenue), it isn’t being stuck in the house that’s hard. It’s the fucking panic attacks every two to three days.” And then he recounted the total frustration of dealing with unresponsiveness of those who are unable to help due to systematic breakdowns, red tape, and confusion. Tom, sincerly, yours is the story that needs to be told over and over, sir, until we confront the teardown of this economy and get on with it. The VAST majority of those who contract the virus are going to be fine, health wise and otherwise. Most of us will even be blessed one day with the awareness that we’ve already had the C-19 bug and barely missed a stride. Others will die prematurly (those at “higher-risk”, for multiple reasons in my case) and pay the price of wrong place/wrong time with pre-existing health complications. But the people my heart most goes out to are ones like you. If you are like me, I poured every ounce of energy and work into the business I co-owned. If that goes under through no fault of yours, when it comes out that this isolating strategy has done very little good because viruses do run their course every single time despite everything done and not done. The enotiuonal and financial price you are paying, Tom, for what? is indescribable. People in government, academia, large institutions and cororations and others who’ve never been personally responsible for nurturing and growing a business may SAY they understand, but they do not. I lost my wife of 50 years to cancer, in stages, and felt completely helpless with obstacles and disappointments virturally every day … and no chance of righting the situation. I figure you are perhaps in that same emotional spot. Some of us are problem solvers, leaders and creative “fixer” people, accustomed to taking charge and figuring a way to go through choppy waters; we thrive on it, in fact. Take that life and soul-enhancing thing away, and we can be crushed beyond belief. One day at a time, my brother, one foot in front of the other again and again. Be well. You’re overdue for a break, man; 5/1/20, 2:31 AM
stevew said...: "Five weeks after social distancing began, Mass. COVID-19 hospitalizations and cases remain high. Why so little improvement?"

That's the lead story headline in the Boston Globe this morning (on-line version). In addition to being clueless it is misleading in that hospitalizations are dropping rapidly. From the MA state Covid-19 website:

Tests: 10,029
Positives: 1,940 (19%)
New Hospitalizations: -53 (continuing the downward trend of the last 8 days)
New Deaths: 157

In another article:
"Officials are now classifying as infected people who were likely stricken by the virus, but did not have the diagnosis confirmed through a laboratory test."

So comparisons of daily figures of positive infections over time is no longer valid.

The mother of the Globe, the NYT, offers this clueless headline:
"Millions Had Risen Out of Poverty. Coronavirus Is Pulling Them Back."

It's not the virus that is pulling these folks back into poverty.; 5/1/20, 5:18 AM
gadfly said...: "Give people back their goddamn freedom," says rip-off artist Elon Musk who has used US taxpayer funds to the tune of $16 billion to keep SpaceX and Telsa afloat.

Musk obviously agrees with Kris Kristofferson's lyrics: "Freedom's just another word for nothin' left to lose. Nothin' don't mean nothin' hon', if it ain't free."; 5/1/20, 6:36 AM
Hey Skipper said...: @Inga:

Fine, he doesn’t understand the difference between rate and extent, either.; 5/1/20, 7:32 AM
roesch/voltaire said...: I walk our dogs twice a day and visit with neighbors working in their yards, bike everyday day on the Badger trail where I see construction worker at work, and many families out walking when the sun is out. I shop every other day at Trader Joe’s. I zoom meet with various groups I belong to, but At 78 I wear a mask in public and keep my social distance. No one I know has been arrested or feels the need to protest with guns. yes we all want this to end, and keep ourselves safe.; 5/1/20, 8:19 AM
I'm Not Sure said...: In another article:
"Officials are now classifying as infected people who were likely stricken by the virus, but did not have the diagnosis confirmed through a laboratory test."

At this point, the infection/fatality numbers have become political. Got to get those numbers up so the shutdown doesn't look quite so pointless, you know. In the immortal words of Mel Brooks as Governor Lepetomane, "We've got to protect our phony-baloney jobs, gentlemen."; 5/1/20, 8:56 AM
Lewis Wetzel said...: "No one I know has been arrested or feels the need to protest with guns. yes we all want this to end, and keep ourselves safe."
But you will be exposed to the virus. You cannot keep yourself safe.; 5/1/20, 9:47 AM
Brian said...: Late to the thread but....

Wis. Stat. § 252.02(3) and (6):
(3) The department may close schools and forbid public gatherings in schools, churches, and other places to control outbreaks and epidemics.
(6) The department may authorize and implement all emergency measures necessary to control communicable diseases.

IANAL, but what standard of review would apply to this? Strict scrutiny?

Under those rules can the department stop a bible study class? What about a tutor teaching kids? How many kids becomes a "school"?

Can the department authorize an "emergency tax" under section (6)? Can they confiscate property? Condemn buildings? Can they stop two neighbors kids playing at each others houses?

The latter at least had a mother threatened in Wisconsin.

It would seem to me that the government better be ready to argue that their Stay at home orders are necessary to control outbreaks. The problem with them is that they still allow you to go to places like bars and grocery stores, but not hair salons. One could argue that food is a necessity, but certainly there isn't a right to alcohol in the constitution. Or lottery tickets!

In short these rules work as long as everybody (for the most part) agrees. But tighten the screws to hard, or too long, and you end up with armed populace in your legislatures.

And hence why we have the Second Amendment. "There are four boxes to be used in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."; 5/1/20, 12:11 PM
Michael McNeil said...: Gadfly speaks! “Give people back their goddamn freedom,” says rip-off artist Elon Musk who has used US taxpayer funds to the tune of $16 billion to keep SpaceX and Telsa afloat.

Ha ha. Gadfly is so pathetic. Musk is long past the need to depend on U.S. funds to “keep SpaceX afloat.” As this arstechnica article from 2018 points out, Musk over the last half-dozen years has destroyed the once-dominant Russian launch business:

“As recently as 2013, Russia controlled about half of the global commercial launch industry with its fleet of rockets, including the Proton boosters. But technical problems with the Proton, as well as competition from SpaceX and other players, has substantially eroded the Russian share. This year, it may only have about 10 percent of the commercial satellite launch market, compared to as much as 50 percent for SpaceX.”

Soon Musk will do likewise to the Chinese launch business, and to the Europeans. Anybody left?; 5/1/20, 3:22 PM
Kirk Parker said...: Lewis Wetzel,

And these people were scientists

I think something is wrong with your keyboard, the scare quotes disappeared from around the word scientists.; 5/2/20, 2:49 PM