March 27, 2020

"The Chinese government is under pressure to stave off economic calamity, and is treating Uighur laborers as dispensable because they have no rights..."

"... and no say, Dr. Ferhat Bilgin, a Uighur American, told the Uighur Times, a Washington-based website disseminating news about the Uihghur crisis. 'If they survive they produce a profit, if they die, that would be "too bad"... For the first time in history, Uyghurs [have] become commodities of the State.' The activists’ demand is simple: The Chinese government must close the camps, free the innocent people and provide for other Xinjiang residents’ basic needs...."

From "The coronavirus brings new and awful repression for Uighurs in China," published in The Washington Post a month ago. I found that this morning because I was looking for news of the plight of the Uighurs. What is happening to them during the pandemic? Over a million of them were confined and crowded into "re-education camps" where they are especially vulnerable to the disease. Now, there are no believable statistics about the disease as it exists in China today, and the story of the Uighurs is overshadowed by the larger story. But what looked like a genocide was already happening, and now that the disease is — I presume — accelerating a genocide, we're not even seeing it at all.

127 comments:

Achilles said...

The Uighurs kept the factories going.

Forced labor.

Some of them probably volunteered to donate their lungs for tests.

Bay Area Guy said...

ChiComs are still ChiComs -- even if they have a large GDP and battle a "plague".

Never go Full ChiCom.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Donald J. Trump said ...

Just finished a very good conversation with President Xi of China. Discussed in great detail the CoronaVirus that is ravaging large parts of our Planet. China has been through much & has developed a strong understanding of the Virus. We are working closely together. Much respect!


Bob Boyd said...

You should make fun of the Uighur Times, Meade. They're probably just being spiteful.

Temujin said...

There are no believable statistics from the Chinese government, as you say. Everyone knows this except for our Journalist! class and Joe Scarborough apparently. You can be sure that the Uighurs are being used in ways that put them in the most high risk areas with little or no concern for their lives.

If nothing else comes out of this beside a great vaccine for this virus and our eyes getting opened up as to why we need to decouple from China and start looking at them through reality glasses, then this will not have been a wasted learning experience. This is an evil government that has spent years manipulating world economics and politics. Not just here in the US.

Lucid-Ideas said...

Even as far back as the Beijing Olympics (2008) the PLA had a huge presence in Xinjiang and Urumqi (which I've been to...hellhole). Even back then knives were required to be chained to walls or tables and tools for workmen kept in lockboxes on jobsites. Hell, China designates almost 90% of Xinjiang as a 'military zone' anyway. It is practically an occupied country just like Tibet (XiZang in Mandarin). The long term goal of the Chinese has always been to 'breed them out' (figuratively not literally) by flooding those regions with Han Chinese. They have been massively successful at this, so much so that XinJiang and XiZang will likely be majority Han by mid-century. But things like this can accelerate things...

...in the sense that they can simply liquidate them. They are not sentimental. Believe me, if they can get away with doing it without the world watching, they will. Conveniently they've put travel restrictions on all outside foreign travel and - don't forget - told the NYT, WSJ, and AP to go home.

They can and they will do it if they can get away with it.

Ken B said...

ARM forgets that heads of state are polite to each other. Do I need to drag up quotes of FDR being polite to Stalin? Do I have to note that Reagan said “Mister” when addressing Gorbachev?

Achilles said...

I want to see follow up on China locking their borders. This was just a one off report so far.

They say they start tomorrow...

Chuck said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Ken B said...
ARM forgets that heads of state are polite to each other.


Not forgetting, just noting the jarring dissonance between what Trump says at different times. He is used to small meetings, where he can say one thing and then say a completely different thing in another meeting, without much risk of spillover. It is a life time strategy that looks odd, at best, in a national leader.

Bob Smith said...

NBC shot their wad long ago with me but that breathless report yesterday that Coronavirus cases in the US had surpassed those in China, based on statistics from China? Just stupid.

rhhardin said...

The Mysterious Orient, the New Yorker used to title those culture difference column fillers.

rhhardin said...

The China virus has probably ruined the market for organ replacements.

Drago said...

ARM was explaining just yesterday how reports like this out of China could not possibly be true because they do not originate with our intelligence services.

ARM was very VERY emphatic on that point.

Just yesterday.

Narr said...

If the Uighurs would identify as transgender Kurds, I bet a lot more people would care.

Narr
WAH-Wah-wah

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

This is Andrew Sullivan's take on Trump's missed opportunity to advance economic nationalism. Steve Bannon probably now has a concussion from banging his head against the wall.

tim maguire said...

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...
Not forgetting, just noting the jarring dissonance between what Trump says at different times.


You say whatever you need to say to keep your Trump hate going. Fortunately, your type is a small minority. Most people are better than you, so we can safely ignore you.

Ron Winkleheimer said...

The tweet seems to have been sent by Andy Ostroy, not Tom. I didn't know who the hell that was or why I should care what he thinks, so I looked him up.

He's an "actor" who has been in two films and runs a list-services company. Oh, and wrote an article on medium saying Trump will resign this year. So LLR Chuck keeps us up with the ramblings of a severe TDS suffer.

Thanks Chuck!

gerry said...

Not forgetting, just noting the jarring dissonance between what Trump says at different times.

You just refuse to understand President Trump. You have almost become amusing.

Drago said...

rhhardin: "The China virus has probably ruined the market for organ replacements."

According to the NYT this morning as well as our lefties here, China basically had nothing to do with this and its all the fault of Trump and hus evangelical base.

Ron Winkleheimer said...

Not forgetting, just noting the jarring dissonance between what Trump says at different times. He is used to small meetings, where he can say one thing and then say a completely different thing in another meeting, without much risk of spillover. It is a life time strategy that looks odd, at best, in a national leader.

Your serious? You think national leaders don't use that strategy? What color is the sky in your world?

Drago said...

Temujin: "There are no believable statistics from the Chinese government, as you say."

According to ARM, ChiCom "studies" and statistics are extremely reliable which is why, just yesterday, ARM was pushing BOTH ChiCom "studies" AND ChiCom issued stats.

Just yesterday.

And that was in addition ti ARM pushing Iranian Mad Mullah stats.

ARM needed those things for a few talking points.

Bay Area Guy said...

ARM,

My spousal unit has a similar take on Trump as you. I gently suggested that for 2 weeks, she not watch Trump on tv or read his tweets or watch anyone on tv interpreting his speeches and tweets.

And, then I gently suggested that she focus on the policies -- ie, closing borders, spending $2 Trillion to fight the virus, etc, etc.

She had to admit, that after 2 weeks, she had much less dislike of Trump (double negative, sorry).

Achilles said...

tim maguire said...
Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...
Not forgetting, just noting the jarring dissonance between what Trump says at different times.

You say whatever you need to say to keep your Trump hate going. Fortunately, your type is a small minority. Most people are better than you, so we can safely ignore you.

They have every government bureaucracy in the world, 95% of the world media, China, the EU(which will fall soon) and the entire NGO blob.

We cannot safely ignore them.

Achilles said...

The entire education establishment and popular culture should be in that list.

Shouting Thomas said...

A question for ARM. A couple in fact.

You’re suggesting that Prez Trump should openly insult and vilify the leaders of a huge country? For the sake of consistency?

You’re suggesting that Prez Trump completely abandon traditional diplomacy and always tell the honest to God blunt truth within dealing with or speaking about the leaders of a huge country?

Can you comprehend the stupidity and destructiveness of actually doing what you seem to suggest?

traditionalguy said...

Replacement Body Parts for sale. Uighur parts are the best young and fresh harvested parts. Get yours before they are all gone.

Shouting Thomas said...

I mean, this shit boggles the imagination, ARM.

Ever heard of not showing all your cards in negotiation?

Ever heard of not pissing off a major nuclear power that doesn’t shrink from genocide?

Leland said...

That news clashes with the narrative that China gave (err sold) medical equipment to Italy because the US caused the virus and falsely claimed it originated in Wuhan. Also the narrative that things would be better if we had a different President that didn't close travel to and from China because of a contained minor flu outbreak. Alas, now that we have our National Guard activated to keep Americans on their couch; there's not much our Government can do to apply pressure and influence China's behavior (like what was done in the past 3 years by Trump).

clint said...

Didn't China just start expelling foreigners, starting with journalists?

This won't end well.

iowan2 said...

Not forgetting, just noting the jarring dissonance between what Trump says at different times.

That's not dissonance. It's called communication. The leftist ongoing confusion is due to their inability to grasp who exactly President Trump is communicating with. Never the media, they are as stupid as toads. Hence going around them and directly speaking to his target(s).

In this case President Trump is telling the world he is fully engaged with the Medical personnel in China. Letting the Chinese leaders know they are not of the hook, and the Medicos doing the grunt work, he trusts (will verify). Despite our anger, we will not let anger hinder our search for knowledge to save as many US lives as possible, and our pride will not sidetrack us.

robother said...

Accusing China of genocide is racist, according to the dispensation that kicked in right after Trump's travel ban. C'mon, man, as a Giant of the Senate would say.

Roughcoat said...

I recently published articles on the situation in Xinjiang vis-a-vis the Uighurs. For one the few times in my life I was ahead of the curve on something.

I hope everyone here understands China's objective in denying entrance to all foreigners. They are shaping the battlefield, as it were. Closing off the country so no one sees what's about to happen there.

Soon the CCP will unleash hell.

Mark my words.

Drago said...

Leland: "That news clashes with the narrative that China gave (err sold) medical equipment to Italy because the US caused the virus and falsely claimed it originated in Wuhan."

I would advise caution here Leland.

ARM does not easily tolerate criticism of his ChiCom allies, so, you know, heads up.

Bay Area Guy said...

"Soon the CCP will unleash hell."

Yeah, what kinda Hell? They have tons of people (1.4 Billion), but their military is kinda weak.

Drago said...

Roughcoat: "I hope everyone here understands China's objective in denying entrance to all foreigners. They are shaping the battlefield, as it were. Closing off the country so no one sees what's about to happen there."

Sorry Roughcoat, but assessments like yours can ONLY be true if our intelligence services say so, according to ARM.

A point ARM made vigorously just yesterday. Repeatedly in fact.

Ron Winkleheimer said...

Never the media, they are as stupid as toads.

Never forget, journalists are stupid rich kids who couldn't get into law school.

Char Char Binks, Esq. said...

ARM pretends not to understand sovereignty. We deal with the China we have, not the China we wish we had. The same goes for North Korea. I’m sure Biden’s shadow government has already defeated all tyrants, including Trump.

gerry said...

Paul Krugman continues to be thrilled with Communist Chinese labor efficiency.

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...

Hillary and Biden are a lot like the Chi-coms leaders.
They care most about their own bottom line. Others are expendable.

gspencer said...

Uighurs are Muslims, and therefore are an enemy within.

Once they reach a 2% level of a population the real troubles begin, only worsening as the Muslim % increases. 10% is a tipping point. France is real close.

Roughcoat said...

The CCP views the situation in China, and globally as well, as a golden opportunity to to settle accounts with dissenters and undesirables, to undertake a comprehensive rectification of their society ... to enact a final solution to their internal problems and contradictions. To that end they've kicked out foreign journalists and will shortly seal their borders. Soon enough the knives will come out and they will make their move; and no one from outside will be there to bear witness to the carnage.

Bushman of the Kohlrabi said...

Maybe we should have reconsidered outsourcing most of our manufacturing to these people after all. The idiot Trump has been fighting this trend the last 3 years. Obama? Oh well, I guess those NCAA brackets don't fill themselves.

Char Char Binks, Esq. said...

Not much about Hong Kong in the news lately. Does it still exist?

Iman said...

You wouldn't read this in the NYT, official propaganda organ of the CCP...

https://pjmedia.com/trending/new-york-times-goes-into-full-chinese-propaganda-mode-as-usa-coronavirus-cases-exceed-80000/

Iman said...

I suspect China has seeded the world with this virus to soften it up. Just a feeling...

Unknown said...

These people are in death camps. Slow-motion death camps. Their organs are being harvested for commercial profit.

From the free world--silence.

China's strategy is move slow, including with its territorial aims. Lightning wars attract too much attention.

Ryan said...

What a coincidence. China recently expelled all journalists from the WaPo, WSJ and NYT.

Roughcoat said...

Yeah, what kinda Hell? They have tons of people (1.4 Billion), but their military is kinda weak.

No it is NOT weak. True, it is behind the U.S. in terms of high-tech weaponry and the like, but not as far behind as it used to be -- and it is rapidly narrowing the gap.

In any case it quite strong enough to suppress there own population -- which is almost totally unarmed. No Second Amendment right to fall back upon.

And, not incidentally, I would remind you that in the first year of the Korean War the PLA inflicted two of the worst battlefield defeats on Americans arms that we have ever experienced. And they fought us to a stalemate. That was when we enjoyed a vast technological advantage over them, a legacy of the recently concluded World War.

Sorry Roughcoat, but assessments like yours can ONLY be true if our intelligence services say so, according to ARM.

Apparently it has not occurred to ARM that I may be in some way connected with those intelligence services, albeit at a very low level, and that the comments I post here are derived from declassified yet accurate material that is readily available in the public domain, if you are willing to dig for it.

Narr said...

I'm with Roughcoat on this-- it seems bloody obvious, and as someone put it, there's a pivot in history happening right now.

I gave half an ear to PDJT's conference yesterday--I have never liked watching him for long--and heard some pup reporter ask if he had squared himself with Xi[t] over calling the China virus the China virus, and causing problems for Asians . . .

Narr
It is to laugh

narciso said...




this was where the nba had a facility

n.n said...

Wicked solutions.

Browndog said...

It's over 2 million and it's been going on for years.

They harvest their organs.

When the virus shut down China's factories, they shipped Uighurs to the factories en masse as slave labor.

American media have been ignoring this for 2 years.

Gusty Winds said...

What would Aristotle have Trump say...

"I just got off the phone with the Chinese leader. Told him he was an asshole, and as soon as this is over, we're going to bomb the Great Wall."

Gusty Winds said...

Wait...totalitarian communist regimes don't commit genocide...come on now...

Roughcoat said...

Journalists, and a large segment of the American public, remind me of how Tolkien portrayed the Hobbits and the inhabitants of Bree, as people who were utterly oblvious to the dangers closing in on them, who hadn't a clue that they lived "within a day’s march" of foes that would freeze their hearts and lay their little town in ruins. Nor did they understand that many brave men were working ceaselessly and in great peril to themselves to protect them and to ensure that they would stay safe and remain blithely ignorant of the terrible evil that was massing beyond their borders.

Yes, I am comparing China to Mordor.

Iman said...

China is asshoe

Bay Area Guy said...

@Roughcoat,

So, you think China is moving towards a war footing?

It's not unrealistic. The viral pandemic, and shutting down of the economy, does create massive instability -- which often does lead to war.

Ray - SoCal said...

China Law Blog covered some of the potential liability issues for US buyers of Chinese goods made with slave labor...

China’s Other Supply Chain Infection — Forced Labor

Interesting in 2016 the consumptive demand clause was repealed in 2016 for 19 U.S. Code § 1307. The penalty includes seizure of shipments and criminal penalties.

Drago said...

Unknown: "From the free world--silence."

On the contrary.

From the Free World leftists/liberal/dems and even some Althousians, the ChiComs get praise and their propaganda is immediately and mindlessly parroted without even a disclaimer that it comes from mass murdering commies who beat women until they abort.

But its all "good" because "not Trump".

Drago said...

Unknown: "China's strategy is move slow, including with its territorial aims. Lightning wars attract too much attention."

Which is why Trump's methodical engagement with China across all dimensions simultaneously represents a threat the Chinese never thought they would have to face from the West, ever.

Trump "gets" China, and China knows it. And Trump is willing to do something about it, which is why its "All hands on deck" for the China cuckholsters in the US.

Roughcoat said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
YoungHegelian said...

Why should the CCP care if a few million Uighurs get murdered along the the way?

The CCP murdered tens of millions of Han Chinese, you know, people who actually count for something in the eyes of Chinese society, and they got away with it multiple times.

The Chinese people didn't revolt. The world did nothing. Even if the few who knew about what was going on China, mostly ardent foreign Maoists, had told the world, what would the world have done.

It amazes me how much the world invested in China while seemingly knowing little about its blood-soaked history.

MAJMike said...

ChiComs are not our friends.

n.n said...

Well, Tibet is out of the news.

settle accounts with dissenters and undesirables

Deplorables? Flyover? "Burdens"?

Meanwhile...

340,000 coronavirus test kits sold to Spain by China defective

Are they trying to spread a social contagion?

Roughcoat said...

I think China is on a war footing now. What do you think was the objective of their seizure (and militarization) of territories in the South China Sea? My God, you'd have to be deaf not to hear their sabers rattling.

Also, I've taken the trouble to read, in translation, recent works by Chinese military theoreticians and strategists.* I was required to do so, and glad for it, because otherwise I would never have read them. In those works the authors clearly spell out China's strategic objectives for the next 100 years. They are entirely transparent, they keep no secrets and make no effort to conceal China's long-term aims and ambitions. They make no bones that they are preparing for war with the United States, which many view as inevitable and unavoidable. It's like "Mein Kampf," in which Hitler clearly spelled out his war aims for Germany, whose words were not taken seriously by practically everyone ("Oh, that's just Adolf being colorful for his German constituents, nothing to worry about!"), and who then proceeded, starting in 1939, to make good on EXACTLY everything he wrote.

*Those works are also readily available in translation.

Ray - SoCal said...

Agree with Roughcoat:

>Roughcoat: "I hope everyone here understands China's objective in denying entrance to
>all foreigners. They are shaping the battlefield, as it were. Closing off the country
>so no one sees what's about to happen there."

My SWAG:

1. CoronaVirus is not at zero non foreign linked cases as China wants you to believe
2. Chinese Economy has major issues, with the Chinese economy export focused, the collapse of the rest of the worlds economy is a major headache.
3. China is battening down the hatches getting ready for another Tienanmen Square, with lots of blood on the streets to keep power. They don't want any pesky foreigners around to report on anything negative.

Drago said...

Bay Area Guy: "@Roughcoat, So, you think China is moving towards a war footing?"

I think you misunderstand Roughcoat's point.

Roughcoat means the ChiComs will use this viral "opportunity" to "take care of all internal "business"', if you know what I mean.

If you are a political prisoner in China, I'm betting you just might have a near 100% probability of dying.....(from the virus.....(wink wink))

Of course, the wailing and complaining by the families of such victims will never be heard after years of Google working with the ChiCom govt to cut off comms between the Chinese dissidents and the outside world (Do no evil, right Google?!) as well our "intelligence" services being basically an Ivy League frat house that doesn't accomplish anything.

Lots of Commie-Muslim Brotherhood-favoring Brennan holdovers still running around CIA, so they aren't going to say anything.

So Roughcoat's point is a solid one: China can "clean house" internally and it will all go down the memory hole.

n.n said...

The CCP murdered tens of millions of Han Chinese

Forget Hitler. Forget Stalin. Forget Mugabe. Mao was a mortal god.

Wince said...

ARM,

As I've said before, Trump exercises a "blow smoke up their ass" strategy with adversaries, and a "hold their feet to the fire" with ostensible allies.

I never really appreciated "keep your friends close, but your enemies closer" from the Godfather until Trump.

Ray - SoCal said...

The difference I have with Roughcoat is what's next. I don't think China wants a war with the US right now, their economy is in too bad of shape, and their military is not ready yet. In another 10 years, on the trajectory they were on with economic and military growth, I would worry. I think it's domestic challenges.

I agree that China has been VERY forceful on expanding, using a cabbage strategy. Just keep on adding layers and layers. It's amazing how much they have gotten away with.

Drago said...

Roughcoat: "Also, I've taken the trouble to read, in translation, recent works by Chinese military theoreticians and strategists.* I was required to do so, and glad for it, because otherwise I would never have read them. In those works the authors clearly spell out China's strategic objectives for the next 100 years."

This is completely correct.

To Trump's credit, he has read quite alot on China (as evidenced by that LA Times article on Trump from 2011) where Trump rattled off about 20 titles dealing with China that he had read and could speak upon right off the top of his head.

This is why Trump's focus on China has been such a shock to the ChiCom's. Someone who knows what they are up to, who doesn't like it, wants to do something about it, understands how the ChiComs think and act, and is willing to start pushing them back, hard.

Thats also why 4+ years of lefty/LLR-lefty lying about Russia Russia Russia was so damaging to our foreign policy because it was clear from the campaign Trump wanted to maneuver in such a way to use Russia to squeeze the ChiComs.

But the ChiComs own the US media, and the entire dem party, and many in the republican party, and 3/4's of the DC lobbyists, and most of the world government bureaucracies.

So that's what Trump is fighting against.

Roughcoat said...

settle accounts with dissenters and undesirables

Deplorables? Flyover? "Burdens"?


Also Uighurs, Tibetans, any restive elements among their minority populations (over 100 million and counting).

Also their own (Han) people who don't toe the party line (e.g., Hong Kong).

Also, of course, the Republic of China (Taiwan). The CCP has nursed a long and bitter grudge again the ROC.

I'm sure there are others. No enemies to the left, no enemies to the right, no enemies in the middle: No enemies, period. Everything within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state.

narciso said...

east Turkestan, is very remote from the rest of the world, that's why they put jack bauer's prison in the 6th season of 24, there, probably only accessible from Pakistan through Kashmir, so it would be very hard to see the extent of the problem,

Drago said...

YH: "The CCP murdered tens of millions of Han Chinese, you know, people who actually count for something in the eyes of Chinese society, and they got away with it multiple times."

Got away with it?

Hardly.

They have literally been celebrated for it on the left! Bernie did it just in this campaign. Labour front-benchers have lauded the Chinese for their "advances" just recently, and then doubled down again. You can't swing a dead cat without hitting some lefty/dem/LLR-lefty who isn't praising China for all its gains......and every bit of it at the expense of the US workers and real allies.

Drago said...

Ray: "I agree that China has been VERY forceful on expanding, using a cabbage strategy. Just keep on adding layers and layers. It's amazing how much they have gotten away with."

They have lots and lots of allies here in the US.

Lots and lots.

n.n said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
n.n said...

[China] have lots and lots of allies here in the US.

Second largest piggy bank in the world, and they're not afraid of making great leaps.

Leland said...

Which is why Trump's methodical engagement with China across all dimensions simultaneously represents a threat the Chinese never thought they would have to face from the West

Yep. And I expect China to fight back, as they are doing via funding of our media. I'm not even surprised that our media would gladly take the money even if it meant hurting others whether they be Uighurs or Americans in the Midwest. I just won't buy their holier than thou propaganda.

Roughcoat said...

Drago:

You are correct. That's what I meant. Good on you.

I agree with Ray-SoCal: the Chinese don't want war tomorrow, say. But they are looking to achieve parity 10 years down the line and, that being the case, NOW is indeed the time for us to worry and prepare accordingly.

That said, I believe the epidemic has provided them with an opportunity, previously unforeseen, to accelerate the timetable of their quest for world dominance. The elimination of "internal" problems is the first item of business on their agenda.

Remember, like all totalitarian/militaristic regimes, the Chinese are supremely opportunistic. If an opportunity presents itself, they will be inclined to go for it, either wholly or in part. That's what totalitarian regimes do.

Drago said...

The Italians trusted the ChiComs and the ChiCom dominated WHO.

The Italians decided they would take the Anti-OrangeManBad strategy of publicly calling for everyone to hug a Chinese person.

And then...the inevitable happened.

And the establishment world is blaming Trump.

The Cracker Emcee Refulgent said...

"Not forgetting, just noting the jarring dissonance between what Trump says at different times. He is used to small meetings, where he can say one thing and then say a completely different thing in another meeting, without much risk of spillover. It is a life time strategy that looks odd, at best, in a national leader."

And used by every national leader ever. ARM,you are waaay off your game.

n.n said...

The Italians trusted the ChiComs and the ChiCom dominated WHO.

The ChiComs offer secular services without #Judgment without #Labels. Just go along to get along. The trick is to balance their opportunity to run amuck, and they are world leaders of amuck.

Michael K said...

But the ChiComs own the US media, and the entire dem party, and many in the republican party, and 3/4's of the DC lobbyists, and most of the world government bureaucracies.

Yup. And ARM, of course but I suspect he was a volunteer. Lots of Media people and grant seekers who are attached to the global warming teat.

Nonapod said...

At this point the one thing I would strongly recommend to the ChiComs is to lay off the whole face saving/blame shifting game. Unless you want to give American businesses even more reasons to divest themselves from you, stop behaving like jackasses. I know, it seems like a big ask to get Xi and the collection of self serving morons running that country to not behave like the totalitarian jackasses they are, but if they have any sense of their own predicament, they should start behaving in a much more apologetic way. Not gonna happen, I know.

Roughcoat said...

And here is a significant datum point:

The U.S. Army has (finally!) radically de-emphasized COIN and Counter Terrorism in their warfighting curriculum. The emphasis is now on "big war." To that end the army is furiously engaged in rewriting doctrine, reorganizing their force structure, retraining their personnel, etc. etc., all with an eye on the possibility of fighting a general all-out conventional war with China. Weapons acquisition and R&D increasingly reflects this new emphasis. Some of you might remember how, in recent years, a flurry of essays and article appeared in publication calling for the abolishment of tank-heavy divisions and formations. The authors of those articles asserted that the "age of the tank" is over, that the tank is obsolete and a liability on 21st century battlefields, that armored warfare as we know it is a relic of the past.

No more. It seems that the "age of the tank" is by no means over, but is rather entering a new phase.

Kudos to Trump for his foresight in allocating funding to keep the Lima Tank Plant in Lima, Ohio up and running -- even in the face of criticism that the manufacture and updating of the M1A2 SEP MBT was an unnecessary extravagence.

Drago said...

Roughcoat: "And here is a significant datum point:

The U.S. Army has (finally!) radically de-emphasized COIN and Counter Terrorism in their warfighting curriculum. The emphasis is now on "big war." To that end the army is furiously engaged in rewriting doctrine, reorganizing their force structure, retraining their personnel, etc. etc., all with an eye on the possibility of fighting a general all-out conventional war with China."

This is why Trump has had to replace so many military leaders. They were raised on COIN and Counter Terrorism and cannot lead in the potential conflicts to come. For basically 4 decades.

Of course, those are the former military leaders who are on TV everyday telling Trump how wrong he is.....and many of them work for thinktanks supported by.......China.

exiledonmainstreet, green-eyed devil said...

Leland said...
That news clashes with the narrative that China gave (err sold) medical equipment to Italy because the US caused the virus and falsely claimed it originated in Wuhan."

And how many news outlets are reporting that a sizable number of the vents China sold to Italy, Spain and Poland turned out to be crap?

Roughcoat said...

Drago:

Precisely. Wholly agree. Again: good on ya, mate.

As an aside: I never much liked COIN/Counter-terror. I've always felt that the two were the military enablers of a nation-building policy, for which I have a vast antipathy. They pretty much obviate the possibility of strategic decisive victory, and in doing so practically guarantee the promulgation of wars without end -- there is no real end game to COIN/CT, just endless attrition, attrition, attrition.

FullMoon said...
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narciso said...

well the previous era of small unit warfare was latin America and the phillipines in the 10s and 20s, counterinsurgency saw it's hay day in the 60s and 70s, with the more severe practices mandated by French instead of American military practices, like auserresse in argentina,

LakeLevel said...

If this is true, it is Nazi level atrocity. Nazi, NAZI, NAZI! There I said it. Enslaving millions of people and working them to death is what Nazi-ism really means, not holding criminal border jumpers in make shift cells. If this is true, going forward, working with China is morally equivilent to working with Nazi Germany. Where the hell is the news media on this? Oh that's right, they passed on reporting on the mass murder in Hitlers's Germany(at first) and Stalin's Russia and Mao's China.

bonkti said...

Drago, I had missed that 2011 article on Trump's China reading. Thank you for that. Besides Peter Navarro, the author I most readily recognized was Stefan Halper, of all people.
https://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2011/05/donald-trump-i-understand-the-chinese-mind.html

Bill Peschel said...

I think I'll save this thread, because this is the moment ARM trashed his credibility so thoroughly.

Amadeus 48 said...

Help! Help! the (pick one: Uighurs/Tibetans/Falon Gong/Christians/Muslims/all of the above) are being oppressed and suppressed by the PRC!

That is a sentiment that has been pretty good since 1948.

Eventually people will wake up. (1) They are being played. (2) The PRC is evil.

And what about the Kurds? Didn't they just get exterminated because of Trump or somethin'?

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

I'm impressed that people here think that the Chinese leadership is as gullible as Republican voters. I very much doubt that the Chinese do anything other than laugh at Trump after he got played so thoroughly by Kim.

Amadeus 48 said...

They identified patient Zero in North Korea and shot him.

Amadeus 48 said...

My goal would be to have the USA be as little like PRC as possible. Some folks, like Tom Friedman, and I suspect James Fallows, would like the USA to be more like the PRC.

Quick, let's have a quick show of hands. Who believes that the PRC has done a good job of dealing with Covid-19? After all they are reporting very few new cases. And they are preemptively closing the movie theaters again as a preventative measure. Come on, who believes the PRC? ARM? Inga? Ken B? Howard? Freder? Althouse? Anyone?

Francisco D said...

I'm impressed that people here think that the Chinese leadership is as gullible as Republican voters

I know HS sophomores who could do a better job at trolling than ARM.

Be careful! Someone may be after your job.

Maybe they also smell the flop sweat.

Nichevo said...

Thats also why 4+ years of lefty/LLR-lefty lying about Russia Russia Russia was so damaging to our foreign policy because it was clear from the campaign Trump wanted to maneuver in such a way to use Russia to squeeze the ChiComs.



THIS ! ! !

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Thursday:

“I don’t believe you need 40,000 or 30,000 ventilators,” Trump told Hannity. “You go into major hospitals sometimes, and they’ll have two ventilators.”

Friday:

"As usual with “this” General Motors, things just never seem to work out. They said they were going to give us 40,000 much needed Ventilators, “very quickly”. Now they are saying it will only be 6000, in late April, and they want top dollar."


Our unstable 'genius'.

NC William said...

Roughcoat: What do you think are the odds that countries like Japan, Australia and others mostly in the Western Civ orbit will nuclearize as they see China get more militarily belligerent?

narciso said...

japan maybe, Australia is strongly infiltrated by communist party operatives, and the charming Jacinda arden of new Zealand has very long strings,

Static Ping said...

ARM: I agree that Trump does this sort of thing of going from hostile to polite and back again depending on the current situation. This sort of thing always happens behind the scenes. With Trump we get to see it in real time, which is certainly uncommon but not necessarily wrong or ineffective.

My personal favorite quote on the subject matter is from Winston Churchill:

"If Hitler invaded hell I would make at least a favourable reference to the devil in the House of Commons."

Achilles said...

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...
I'm impressed that people here think that the Chinese leadership is as gullible as Republican voters. I very much doubt that the Chinese do anything other than laugh at Trump after he got played so thoroughly by Kim.

Right now everyone in the country is acting like a disaster befell the country. Everyone is coming together as much as possible to get through difficult times. Everyone except the media/Chicoms/Democrat faithful.

I appreciate that you are still here ARM. Chuck has been trying to post the same MSM/Chinese/Democrat talking points. These people need to know who to get angry with.

Right now they are getting mad at the people who told them they were lied to.

They need to get mad at the people that lied to them instead.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Static Ping said...
I agree that Trump does this sort of thing of going from hostile to polite and back again depending on the current situation. This sort of thing always happens behind the scenes. With Trump we get to see it in real time, which is certainly uncommon but not necessarily wrong or ineffective.


An example of this was the farce that played out around Kim. Hard for me to see it as even the slightest bit effective. I remember all the commentary here that Trump was playing N-dimensional chess, but the end result was photo ops for Kim and a diminution of US prestige.

Vance said...

I see ARM is still shilling for Commies, this time Chinese ones.

China has sudden problems on their hand. As reported over at Ace of Spades, apparently the province Wuhan is in, Hubei Province, is suddenly engaged in a violent conflict with their neighboring province to the north.

It appears that Wuhan Flu is not dead and gone like China has been maintaining. So perhaps instead of killing all their dissidents (something ARM and Inga are perfectly happy with, it appears. Go go China! Oppress those citizens who aren't in favor of ultimate government dictatorship! The left in this country is openly envious of China's dictatorship. See Freidmen, Tom), China will have to go back to fighting their own deadly disease instead of shipping faulty test kits around the world.

Isn't that an act of war if China knowingly has shipped faulty Corona virus test kits? Biological war?

Also, apparently tens of thousands of ventilators have been discovered in a warehouse in New York... unused. Cuomo's attempt to shame/blame Trump just blew up in his face.

jimbino said...

Isn't it better to refer to the Uighurs' treatment by the Han Chinese as "expendable" rather then "dispensable" citizens?

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Vance ... still shilling for Commies

Let us consider the logic here.

Norks - Chinese tools
Trump - fails to bring Norks to heel
Criticism of Trump's failure to bring Chinese tools to heel - must be a Chinese agent

The angels weep.

Birkel said...

The Washington Post is three weeks behind the conservative sites that Althouse doesn't read.
Or is it four?

Nichevo said...

Also, apparently tens of thousands of ventilators have been discovered in a warehouse in New York... unused. Cuomo's attempt to shame/blame Trump just blew up in his face.


Link, Vance?

Roughcoat said...

Roughcoat: What do you think are the odds that countries like Japan, Australia and others mostly in the Western Civ orbit will nuclearize as they see China get more militarily belligerent?

I think the odds are pretty good that several if not all of the Pacific Rim nations will eventually go nuclear.

There has been plausible speculation that Japan has either nuclearized in secret or is just a few short steps away from doing so, and has the capability to assemble nuclear weapons very quick should the circumstances warrant.

I think the same might be true of ROC. But I'm just speculating. Frankly, I think ROC would be crazy not to have developed and assembled their own nukes. The Straits of Formosa are not all that wide.

How hard is it, nowadays, for a technologically advanced nation to develop its own nukes? That's a genuine question. I don't know. But I'm sure it isn't as hard now as it was 10 short years ago. And if Pakistan can do it, anyone can.

Shouting Thomas said...

ARM is approaching peak stupid.

Drago said...

Birkel: "The Washington Post is three weeks behind the conservative sites that Althouse doesn't read.
Or is it four?"

At least 4.

Which is still better than ARM believing that conservatives are just now, as in very recently, becoming disbelieving of the CIA and FBI.

Which puts ARM decades behind reality.

The good news? He's not centuries behind.

Drago said...
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Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Shouting Thomas .. approaching peak stupid.

What is the view like from up there?

Drago said...

ARM: "Let us consider the logic here"

Lets.

ChiComs put out laughably false propaganda.

ARM pushes that propaganda nonstop.

Readers notice ARM is pushing ChiCom propaganda nonstop.

Readers reasonably conclude ARM is a shill for ChiComs.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Drago said...
that conservatives are just now, as in very recently, becoming disbelieving of the CIA and FBI.


Remind me, who were the idiots who dragged us into the Iraq war, based on faulty intelligence.

Drago said...

Roughcoat: "There has been plausible speculation that Japan has either nuclearized in secret or is just a few short steps away from doing so, and has the capability to assemble nuclear weapons very quick should the circumstances warrant."

Correct again.

This is in conjunction with public policy changes enacted by the Japanese to accelerate military modernization and expansion which Trump is really pushing hard.

Dont ask ARM about this though. He only knows the "news" that emanates frim Beijing.

Shouting Thomas said...

Still nothing to do with your time, ARM?

You were here at least 15 hours yesterday.

Did you at least take a shower and change your underwear?

Shouting Thomas said...

I’d think that the hemorrhoids and drizzling shits are starting to hit you, ARM, from sitting on your ass so long with nothing to do.

Are you drinking, too?

Achilles said...

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Remind me, who were the idiots who dragged us into the Iraq war, based on faulty intelligence.

All of those people voted for Hillary in 2016.

Drago said...

ARM: "Remind me, who were the idiots who dragged us into the Iraq war, based on faulty intelligence."

Every now and again, ARM will inadvertantly ask a question that is a fantastic question.

Truly. But I will not limit my answer to ONLY Iraq, because that would be a fundamental mistake.

I would include not just the deposing of Saddam and the mission change to Democracy building in Iraq and everything that came out of that for almost 2 decades, but also the overthrow of Gaddafi, the overthrow of Mubarek in Egypt, etc.

And the answer is this: The entire DC establishment class, including republicans AND democrats, the deep state/entrenched agency bureaucracies, the military-industrial complex lobbyists (duh!), the intelligence services, the establishment suck-up media, ALL of the neoconservatives (best exemplified by Frum, Kristol, Boot, etc. (Bolton is not a neocon, he was always an establishment class republican)), the EU leadership and Davos crew as well.

You know, the "masters of the universe" who truly believe they have the wisdom and insight to predict and control the course of human events....all the while lining their pockets.

And you want to know what is the MOST fascinating about ALL those groups?

Every single one of them opposes Trump. Every. Single. One. Of. Them.

To be fair, they also oppose Sanders. And Brexit. And Boris. And the changing of the global trade deals.

See a pattern here?

Achilles said...

Drago said...

A couple quiblles.

And the answer is this: The entire DC establishment class, including republicans AND democrats, the deep state/entrenched agency bureaucracies, the military-industrial complex lobbyists (duh!), the intelligence services, the establishment suck-up media, ALL of the neoconservatives (best exemplified by Frum, Kristol, Boot, etc. (Bolton is not a neocon, he was always an establishment class republican)), the EU leadership and Davos crew as well.

There are clearly a number of foreign governments and "Deep States" in those governments that you did not mention.



To be fair, they also oppose Sanders. And Brexit. And Boris. And the changing of the global trade deals.

They don't oppose Sanders. They bought Sanders. Sanders has been the Mitt Romney of the marxist left for a while.

Drago said...

Achilles: "There are clearly a number of foreign governments and "Deep States" in those governments that you did not mention."

Correct. But after awhile, you get the idea.

Achilles: "They don't oppose Sanders. They bought Sanders. Sanders has been the Mitt Romney of the marxist left for a while."

Actually, they do. They oppose most of his ideas. It's just that Sanders is an "opponent" that they COULD buy off.

tim in vermont said...

It’s more of a semi-demi-decimation than a genocide.

Sam L. said...

China: The self-darkened continent.