"... backing down from his previous comments that he hoped the country could go back to work by Easter.... Despite the pleas from state and city leaders for more medical supplies, Mr. Trump on Sunday appeared to suggest that New York hospitals are doing something improper with their surgical masks, saying that he does not believe they really need the amount of equipment they have said would be necessary to protect doctors and nurses treating coronavirus patients. Asked to elaborate on his allegation, he said, 'I think people should check that because there’s something going on.' He added: 'I don’t think it’s hoarding. I think it’s maybe worse than hoarding.'"
The NYT reports.
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179 comments:
DId he put his finger to his nose and give a knowing look? That’s New Yorkese for involvement of the “outfit."
Trump needs better speechwriters.
Reporter: "Was the original Easter timeline a mistake."
How Trump SHOULD respond: "I'm not answering ANY QUESTION which is designed to divide our nation in this most trying time. You reporters have a responsibility to the nation. Either get on America's team, or get out. Any reporter who asks a question designed to score cheap political points on the backs of dead Americans won't get another question as long as I'm the President of the United States. Next question."
I would imagine vast amounts of these critical goods are being stolen, not hoarded, at every point of production and distribution. That is what Trump meant.
This will only get worse- food is next.
Testing has definitely plateaued this weekend- basically since Thursday. It is the explanation for the plateau in new cases. I read there is a new testing format coming on-line next week, so maybe testing takes off again.
Reasonable compromise. I'd prefer sooner, but 1 month is doable, although a lotta restaurants, hotels, airlines, small businesses and blue collar folks - you know, the ones that actually work - are gonna get hit hard.
Watch the idiotic Democrats and idiotic press demand we shut it all down until the election. "Better safe than sorry!"
Same thing is happening in the European countries that appear to be lower new cases- their testing has also plateaued or fallen a bit. We may have hit the limit of production of testing reagents.
Five weeks to go. What can I do for five weeks? Listening to Victor Davis Hanson history lectures is done. He talks slow, but has much to say. The Scott Peterson YouTube’s are all done too. Guess that means going full time Althouse Reading. The best history book that just came out is Hymns of the Republic by S C Gwynn’s.
Crap. John Prine is seriously ill with covid-19 symptoms.
If you want to see what a political twat is, read this.
For the record, Kentucky and Tennessee have statistically identical positive rates on the tests they have run- the only reason Tennessee has more total cases is they have tested 3 1/2 times as many people. Beshear is a twat.
The New York Times lies would be more accurate. Plus, whenever you read a MSM reporter saying Trump "Suggested" something, you know they're misleading you.
I'm not responsible.
Mr. Trump on Sunday appeared to suggest that New York hospitals are doing something improper with their surgical masks...
Yes, because a single NY hospital that regularly uses 10-15 thousand masks in a month is now using 300 thousand masks a month. That is a huge jump, and why supply fell far behind demand.
Are they legit using that many masks at a single hospital (there are 141 thousand cases in the whole US)? If so, okay. But we will never know if pallets of those masks are "accidentally" falling off the loading dock unless someone looks into it.
There was no ORIGINAL EASTER timeline. There was Trump's HOPE it would be over by EASTER. And that He would LOVE if could be over by EASTER. But that medical experts would have the final say.
Its incredible how you have to WATCH THE PRESS CONFERENCE PERSONALLY to get an accurate understanding of what was said, because the DNC-Media never stops lying about Trump.
SUGGEST? I want the whole quote.
John Prine critical in ICU with CV.
Didn't see your post, exile.
Great. Now the governors are going to have to extend well into May, as they have to ‘out do’ DJT. And that’s not saying they’re right or wrong to do so from a public health standpoint - I honestly have no idea - but with each passing day their motivation seems a bit more motivated by other factors.
Will be interesting to see how people react in the real world (as opposed to the online virtue signaling). I’m waiting for speakeasies to start popping up.
Trump had a great exchange with CNN which tried to lie about what he'd said on Friday. He refused to accept the CNN's description of what he said, and pointed out that CNN reporter was CUTTING OFF HIS QUOTE to make him look bad. The CNN reporter then did his usual shtick of interrupting Trump and debating him, but Trump bulldozed over him.
Later CSPAN showed the Trump and his team leaving, and other reporting going up to the CNN reporter and smiling and laughing - no doubt at what a great job he did attacking Trump.
I had to switch over to CSPAN because I got so damned tired of that fucking news crawl at the bottom of every news-channel screen, that is constantly diverting people from what is being said. Or having half the screen taken up by Huge letters telling me how many people have died from the Wuhan Flu in the USA and the World.
Yeah, if someone wants to set up a speakeasy I'm not going to object. We need this lockdown loosened up if its going to last till May.
Have people started realizing yet that this shut down is not simply hysterics or overreacting? Seems like Trump had some sort of realization,
You're either part of the problem or part of the solution. The NYT and other MSM are not part of the solution.
Initial claims on Thursday will probably be 5 million+.
Unemployment rate is reported on Friday morning. With the lag in data, the rate is likely to be capped at around 6-7%, but the one in May will probably be 20%+
Well, something like 28M out of nearly 160M work in the hospitality/leisure industries. most of them plus a chunk of other people (suppliers, car makers, etc) are going to be laid off, so that's roughly 20%.
Trump's authority to close anything down is actually pretty limited- he can shut down air travel federal work, but that is pretty much all he can do. The big inclusive shut downs are up to the governors, and the commenter above is correct- since Trump said end of April, the Democrat governors will feel the need to one up this in the virtue signalling race to the bottom and say the end of May.
Am I to understand, without reading every previous post, that our 50th State may be turning into a leper colony?
He added: 'I don’t think it’s hoarding. I think it’s maybe worse than hoarding.
Tomorrow the AP will fact check this statement and call it false because nothing is worse than hoarding.
Goodbye Mom and Pop. Best he didn't wait longer to get the bad news out.
And all these politicians are now trapped by the first mover problem. There is now no guidelines for when to officially let up. The people themselves will just start mass disobedience by the next week, but their employers won't. Which governor with a lockdown is going to lift it officially before the new cases number in their state hits zero?
Prine ain't dead yet but, by God, if a few old bastards like him have to die a little early to put America back to work and get my 401k back to where it ought to be then so be it. He's going to die sooner or later anyway and it could just as well have been the flu that put him in ICU. People get sick all the time!
Why don't you sheep understand this simple FACT.
I remember the last disaster when the media went on and on about how Trump wasn't sending enough supplies.
They found them in the Puerto Rican warehouses years later.
Oh that's right. The media didn't find them at all.
“The big inclusive shut downs are up to the governors, and the commenter above is correct- since Trump said end of April, the Democrat governors will feel the need to one up this in the virtue signalling race to the bottom and say the end of May.”
The coronavirus crisis will peak in Wisconsin around May 22, with about 1,350 people in the hospital and 13 people dying every day, and will last well into July, according to projections from the Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation (IHME), an independent global health research center at the University of Washington.
The projection assumes Wisconsin residents maintain social distancing, with schools and nonessential businesses closed and the governor’s “Safer at Home” order still in effect.
Well, I was waaaay off when I predicted a couple of weeks ago there would be two weeks of shutdown here in California with cautious reopening claiming "we did a great job, but people will continue to get sick and some will die."
how they got here
Not in favor of this.
Oddly, this all works to my advantage. I’m retired and most of my income arrives by direct deposit. I’m creating videos of hymns that I record for streaming for church services. For the first time in years I don’t have to get up and go somewhere on Sunday morning, but I still get paid.
I downloaded all of Adobe Creative Cloud, the master assortment of web, graphic, audio, video, etc. software tools and I’m getting back into professional shape. Amazingly, I’m building a contemporary portfolio that will probably bring in client work.
People need to work, move around, make money and feel useful. This is going to get very difficult.
Prine, 73, is a two-time cancer survivor. He was most recently diagnosed with lung cancer in 2013, which led to a surgical removal of part of a lung. He had stent surgery in 2019 and postponed tour dates to have hip surgery earlier this year.
Rabel, you are a small man.
Trump has always been an optimist.
The original prediction I read that I have been using as a benchmark said that mid May would be the time that the entire US hospital system was overwhelmed. Because exponential does not equal ‘explosive” or “explodential” it’s more like inexorable. I still am using that as my benchmark.
“Prine ain't dead yet but, by God, if a few old bastards like him have to die a little early to put America back to work and get my 401k back to where it ought to be then so be it. He's going to die sooner or later anyway and it could just as well have been the flu that put him in ICU. People get sick all the time!”
Ah, a conservative expressing his reverence for the sanctity of life. “Old bastards” should just hurry up and die already. If saving an unborn child from abortion was somehow connected to someone losing some of their 401k, we’d see some conservatives become pro choice pretty quickly. It’s so interesting when the mask slips.
You can count on the hack-D press to "look into it!"
Tom Hanks body returned to US.
Inga said...
Have people started realizing yet that this shut down is not simply hysterics or overreacting? Seems like Trump had some sort of realization,
People who have never run anything bigger than their mouth don't realize that estimates change and leaders who are real leaders adjust estimates by experience.
Nobody said it was "just hysterics."
HENRY (V.O.) Jimmy was one of the most feared guys in the city. He was first locked up at eleven and was doing hits for mob bosses when he was sixteen. Hits never bothered him. It was business. But what he really loved to do was steal. I mean, he actually enjoyed it. Jimmy was the kind of guy who rooted for the bad guys in the movies. He was one of the city's biggest hijackers. Clothes. Razor blades. Booze. Cigarettes. Shrimp and lobsters. Shrimp and lobsters were the best. They went fast.
EXT. TRAILER TRUCK - NEAR IDLEWILD AIRPORT - NIGHT
The trailer truck is stopped at a light in a deserted area near JFK Airport. WE SEE the DRIVER being quietly led to a car where JIMMY BURKE is standing. WE SEE JIMMY routinely take the DRIVER'S wallet. There is absolutely no resistance.
HENRY (V.O.) And almost all of them were gimmies.
CUT TO: CLOSE UP - WALLET
WE SEE JIMMY put a $50 bill in the DRIVER'S wallet.
HENRY (V.O.) They called him Jimmy the Gent. The drivers loved him. They used to tip him off about the really good loads. Of course, everybody, got a piece. And when the cops assigned a whole army to stop him,
pause
Jimmy made them partners.
wow. THIRTEEN every day.
There were 52,679 deaths in Wisconsin during 2017. or 144 deaths.
How many of those 13 would have died from something else? not zero.
How many would the Fluhan have killed that would have gone on for several more years, or maybe even a couple decades. not zero.
how many will commit suicide because the business they sunk their life savings into just went bankrupt and they're 58 years old and can't start over? not zero.
How many 35 year olds who finally got a job will go back to deadening the pain with opiates and end up in prison? Not zero.
How many 15 year olds will have F'd up lives because mom and dad got a divorce over financial problems? not zero.
destroying hundreds of thousands of lives for less than 13 additional daily deaths out of a normal 144.
GFY.
Whatever he may be, Rabel is not a conservative.
250,000 people die every year due to medical mal-practice.
Said my PHD neighbor to me today.
Gonna see if that's true.
boldly
I think that new predictions based on revised assumptions, unless those assumptions are rigorously validated, are likly B.S.
“Nobody said it was "just hysterics."”
Oh please. Just because you have a bad memory the rest of us don’t.
My husband works at a hospital and two months ago they had to lock up the masks, because staff (doctors, everyone) were starting to take them home.
we must destroy the economy - so we can be more like Venezuela. It's in Nancy's DNA.
These excerpts from the New York Times blasting and misrepresenting what the President and said and done --
Does it really help to post them?
"It’s so interesting when the mask slips.'
You are dirt.
You are a liar.
You are a fraud.
Have a pleasant evening.
“Whatever he may be, Rabel is not a conservative.”
He’s presented himself as a conservative on this forum for years.
DavidUW said: "Well, something like 28M out of nearly 160M work in the hospitality/leisure industries. most of them plus a chunk of other people (suppliers, car makers, etc) are going to be laid off, so that's roughly 20%."
And most of them wouldn't get their jobs back even if Trump had suggested reopening business by April 15.
People are just too damned scared to travel right now. People who fly frequently on business trips (as I used to) are accustomed to catching various mild infections while on business trips: Colds, Montezuma's Revenge, sinus infections, etc. I caught plenty. It's practically an occupational hazard. But when the infection is potentially deadly, forget it.
In my own state, for example, we didn't even need the governor to implement a lockdown. As soon as the dimensions of the pandemic became apparent weeks ago, the panic set in. People started emptying supermarket shelves, canceling travel plans and restaurant reservations, and staying home.
The economic collapse is due much more to the coronavirus scare than to any lockdowns. And that won't change until we start flattening the curve on coronavirus.
Oh please. Just because you have a bad memory the rest of us don’t.
The irony of that statement coming from Inga the compulsive liar is astounding, isn’t it?
This woman is the most blithely self unaware goofball in the universe.
I dunno. Cheesecake Factory responsible for 8.07392% of America's obesity crisis (I can make up statistics at least as well as CNN and MSNBC) has told its landlords that it won't be making lease payments on April 1st. You think that won't put pressure on the gubmint in various places to loosen their restrictions?
When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, madam?
"It’s so interesting when the mask slips.”
“You are dirt.
You are a liar.
You are a fraud.
Have a pleasant evening.”
I sure hope Ms Karma wasn’t listening to you lamenting “old bastards” not dying quickly enough to save every red cent in your 401k.
Whatever Rabel is, politically, he speaks only for himself.
Some of you guys need to look into a membership in the Society for the Voluntary Extinction of Humanity.
BTW, the main difference in all of these other death counts is that our medical system is able to handle them.
Germany's finance minister offed himself.
People die. Who knew?
Rabel, you are going to have to lay it on thicker than that if you want them to get the sarcasm.
Testing has definitely plateaued this weekend- basically since Thursday.
Not in California, they just put the tests on hold. There are 65,000 waiting for results.
Ah Michel K-- people who have never run anything bigger than their mouths is sorta descriptive of most of our "journalists". The world changes, and if you are competent, you react.
Yancey Ward said: "We may have hit the limit of production of testing reagents."
Actually, we may have hit the limit of IMPORTATION of testing reagents.
Because much of the testing reagent is imported from Asia.
So the Israeli Mossad launched a series of covert operations to scarf up another 400,000 testing kits for Israel. This is not a conspiracy theory, but real.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/mossad-brings-another-400000-coronavirus-test-kits-to-israel/
I wish the CIA had thought of doing that.
@Jupiter
A sledgehammer could not put a dent in Inga’s thick skull.
She’s stupid in ways that you don’t often see. She’s something of a miracle of ignorance and malice.
People never died... until Trump came along.
One might expect homeless encampments to be especially susceptible.
Haven’t seen anything saying that’s the case.
Kathy Griffin couldn't get one!
Losing her head over it.
Listening to NYC radio via iheart, so many PSAs seem silly or in direct conflict with circumstances.
Italy and France are now prescribing hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine as treatments for coronavirus patients.
“ Have people started realizing yet that this shut down is not simply hysterics or overreacting? ”
Not the ones you mean Inga. Just look at the threads today. They are even making up just so stories about doctors panicking to try to explain rising hospitalization.
"She’s stupid in ways that you don’t often see. She’s something of a miracle of ignorance and malice."
I don't know. Something about the way Igna operates earns my grudging admiration. She has a kind of a Roseanne Roseannadanna obliviousness that I think must be intentional.
But she's not the only one who took Rabel at face value. I have to say, I started to agree with him, before I realized he was trying to caricature cold-hearted bastards like myself. I hope hie 401K is in better shape than mine is. It's no laughing matter!
"I wish the CIA had thought of doing that."
I don't see how it would have been a good idea for the CIA to buy 400K masks in NYC and fly them to Israel.
Inga
You missed Rabel's sarcasm. His performance was pitch perfect though. He pegged them in just a few lines.
“But she's not the only one who took Rabel at face value. I have to say, I started to agree with him, before I realized he was trying to caricature cold-hearted bastards like myself. I hope hie 401K is in better shape than mine is. It's no laughing matter!”
Well if he was trying at a caricature of a cold hearted bastard, he sure did it convincingly. Too convincingly.
@ST,
"People die. Who knew?"
Yes! And in a country of 330 Million, about 2.8 Million die each year of something. That's the circle of life.
Anyone wanna predict what the EXCESS number of deaths of Covid-19 are by year's end?
For the record, I'd prefer April 15 to reopen the country - at the latest. However. Trump has enormous responsibilities and political pressures from disgusting hacks like Nancy Pelosi and scaremongering fools like the NYT, so he's gotta play the game. I, personally, can live with April 30. But I'm worried about my blue collar citizens. I will be ordering a lot of take out.
Peace out!
To be resourceful in service of your nation sheesh
This is all so very dumb. I don't blame Trump, not really, because he's balancing the advice of his science advisers against the advice from his economic team, and using his best judgement between the two. But we're gonna look back in a little less than 6 months and wonder how we'd been conned so very badly. The truth out of Italy will begin to emerge - massive and advanced comorbidities in 80-90% of the "documented" Wuhuflu victims, and the others were all knock knock knocking on Heaven's door anyway on account of their service in World War One. Outright lies in their numbers will lead to more investigations, and we'll find that Chinese containment probably killed more than it saved, and that asymptomatic cases in America and Britain were sky high, bringing the death rate down severely. We'll also find that we've loosed yet another flavor of the surveillance monster, openly tracking our movements with drones and ever more advanced and numerous cameras. Europe is gonna learn a hard lesson about borders, made worse due to the ongoing (and now, under the radar) migrant crisis between Turkey and Greece. Caravans of third world welfare seekers aren't known for their exceptional cleanliness (aside from the ones they parade right in front of the cameras) and a large group of traveling peasants is a perfect disease vector. Just wait until Trump proposes additional border restrictions on Mexico (and maybe Canada) to stave off future outbreak threats. There'll be howls of indignation but I think most Americans will strongly favor them, considering how widespread this has gotten. But for all that, I think we are looking at something less lethal than the flu, though possibly easier to spread, that seems really fucking bad only because we've put it under a microscope. Use this same zoom lens for flu season, and inspire the same panic, and we'd be locking down the northern hemisphere from November to March every year.
“Inga
You missed Rabel's sarcasm. His performance was pitch perfect though. He pegged them in just a few lines.”
Me, SteveW, JML, Joan and even Jupiter for a moment. If Rabel was being sarcastic, he could’ve said so after others including myself called him on his vileness.
SinZ,
The instant people on the other end of my business want to meet, I’m on the next flight to Boston
Again, I have to make a living
The airlines and hotels make most of their profits off people like me
I don’t think it stays shut once new infections drop and the general recommendations are lifted.
Unless of course it takes so long we’re fully in a greater depression and people like me are out of a job.
Inga
Yes, he was pitch perfect. But he had help: all he did was compress what the usual suspects have been saying on another thread today. They really have become like that. Rabel just had the decency to notice, and object.
“Inga
Yes, he was pitch perfect. But he had help: all he did was compress what the usual suspects have been saying on another thread today. They really have become like that. Rabel just had the decency to notice, and object.”
I hope you’re right.
Bay Area guy As someone said: “one foot in the grave, the other on a banana peel”
walter (7:54pm):
Not Germany's finance minister (who would be Mnuchin's German equivalent) but the finance minister of the state of Hesse, whose largest city, Frankfurt, is Germany's financial center. So the equivalent of New York state's finance minister (or whatever the exact title would be): a big cheese, but not as big as Mnuchin. And he apparently left a note saying that he killed himself because he couldn't see any way to avoid financial disaster. So again, very bad, but not quite as bad as you implied.
From the San Francisco Chronicle:
While the Bay Area shelters in place, construction on mansions and luxury condos continue
Gotta love those limousine liberals! My people!
Come on man (I mean, Ken B)! Good, well crafted, sarcasm is clear that it is, um, sarcasm. So Rabel either did bad/poor sarcasm, or he was sincere. In either case I stand by my assertion: he speaks only for himself.
I defer to no one about how horrible the basic data are on the crisis. But I want to set an early marker (in case this becomes obvious tomorrow or Tuesday) : New Orleans temperatures have had highs in the 80s the last 4 days, and new COVID cases in NO are 175 on March 26 and 27, 125 on March 28 and 50 on March 29.
Good epidemiology paper by Christopher Murray at IHME, linked at Power Line. Now we are getting to some "real calculations," though still with lots of assumptions and bands of uncertainty.
Mid-April peak in health care demand, exceeding current supply. Estimated death toll: 81K--with all deaths with Wuhan attributed to Wuhan, it seems.
As usual, risk of fatalities to people under 50 minimal.
We are all in this together.
In this time of emergency tie all government pensions to the stock market. Like the peons with 401Ks live (and die) with.
Everyone's retirement should be affected equally.
Take the cut and show solidarity.
What say you, Elois?
I am Laslo.
"They really have become like that."
Look, Jack, maybe you should tell us, exactly how many fellow citizens should we be willing to sacrifice our life savings for? Should I resign myself to eating dog food for the rest of my life, so John Prine can have another 20 minutes? Understand, this is just the first one. The Chi-Coms can and will do this as often as needed, and the Democrat governors are happy to help out. Maybe I should be hoarding dog food. The canned stuff may get hard to come by, after a couple more years without an economy.
Have to respectfully disagree with Kyzer. Yes, those things might be learned by some, but if their inability to fit the established narrative ensures they will be ignored by the gatekeepers (aka MSM).
Sorry Weevil,
Used wording from a headline.
Alex Berenson
@AlexBerenson
·
58m
1/ Japan, Japan. Japan is THE puzzle in all of this. It has avoided the steps Western health experts demand - no lockdown, few tests. It has an aged population, huge cities, close air links to China. It should have been overrun a month ago. Instead, NO outbreak. Why?
Quote Tweet
Motoko Rich
@motokorich
· 1h
Japan’s health ministry reports as of 3/29, 173 new positive Covid19 cases were confirmed. (Down from 194 new cases a day earlier)
2 deaths.
Total cases: 1875
Total deaths: 54
"And he apparently left a note saying that he killed himself because he couldn't see any way to avoid financial disaster."
Ok, have to say I do not comprehend why he would intentionally end his life over this crisis.
The Scott Peterson YouTube’s are all done too.
I had no idea that was a thing.
Sounds good Laslo.
Of course i'd also end all pensions for government workers with salaries above 100k. After all, we're expected to fund our own retirement. they should too.
rcocean said... "There was no ORIGINAL EASTER timeline. There was Trump's HOPE it would be over by EASTER. And that He would LOVE if could be over by EASTER. But that medical experts would have the final say.
Its incredible how you have to WATCH THE PRESS CONFERENCE PERSONALLY to get an accurate understanding of what was said, because the DNC-Media never stops lying about Trump."
Quoted so I don't have to write that word for word with much added profanity.
I keep a keg of beer in a fridge in the back shed, Obsidian Stout. When It got low a couple weeks ago, I called up the Keg Tavern and ordered another. They usually call me as soon as it comes in, so I forgot about it until the keg went dry two nights ago. Then I called to see if it was in. No answer. Duh-uhhh! That batshit-psycho lesbian the voters of Oregon installed at the Governor's mansion in Salem had closed it down!
Now, I can get by another week or so without a keg of Obsidian Stout, but I'm pretty sure those gals behind the bar at the Keg Tavern were living paycheck-to-paycheck. ReichsFuhrer Brown may eventually lift the shut-down, but when will that bar reopen?
Jupiter. I make my own beer. And our commie POS governor Newsom has deemed beer supply stores non-essential too.
call him major moloch
Stevew
Sorry, I wasn’t paying attention. I was running the 401(k) numbers. So far grandma looks like she'll make the cut, but not Uncle Jim and Aunt Edna. I'll miss them.
“Maybe I should be hoarding dog food. The canned stuff may get hard to come by, after a couple more years without an economy.”
My cat died, I still have a lot of canned cat food and dry food. I’ll gladly send it to you. You’re welcome.
I'm more worried about how those barmaids' good-for-nothing, layabout boyfriends are gonna get by. I guess this probably doesn't really impact most criminal enterprises.
from another thread
Yep- the off label z pack drug combo is turning more heads while the bureaucracies wait to debate results of double blinds sometime next year. Right now too busy with masks and test kits and the politics of how to convince us to huddle in our caves another month. But not too close...
"The truth out of Italy will begin to emerge - massive and advanced comorbidities in 80-90% of the "documented" Wuhuflu victims, and the others were all knock knock knocking on Heaven's door anyway on account of their service in World War One"
Well, parts of the truth have already emerged. World War One is a little harsh though, but ICWYDT.
Anyway, similar evidence now coming out of other European countries. Obesity now also a major risk factor; it seems the fatter you are, the more lung trouble.
Some have more skin in the game than others.
This is true of both the health and economic aspects.
To say one not only takes precedence, but obliterates the other, seems like the subject of a fair discussion to have.
But we'll stick with calling people denialists because.
I am Laslo.
Ken B: that's the spirit!!
I'm not looking at my 401k nor my other investments, might make me want to kill myself.
Igna, how can you be so solicitous of the health and well-being of evil old people like myself, yet utterly indifferent to the massacre of innocent babies? Is it 'cause the babies are mostly black? You can tell me how many people are going to die of Covid-19 if we don't shut down the economy. What are the statistics for how many babies will die if we don't shut down Planned Parenthood? Do you have a mathematical model for that? Would you be OK with flattening the curve? How much of my 401K do I have to give up to save healthy young people's lives? I could maybe get behind that.
I'm really surprised he stepped away from the Easter date. Someone must have had a VERY convincing argument.
I mean...we're all going to get sick.
It would seem pretty easy to check with other hospitals and see if their procurement went up by a similar factor. Definitely worth looking into. Post presser, Gillibrand was interviewed and made it look like Trump was impugning brave and honest hospital workers everywhere.......The media think they're bandilleros bravely charging and wounding the bull. They're mostly flies that got swatted away by his tail.....I pretty much enjoy Trump's interactions with the press. He gives better than he gets. It's when the media do their thing with bystanders like Kavanaugh and the Covington kids that I get upset. The press has lost their war.
ditto
Theyve lost a skirmish, but their goal well that remains to be seen
Hey, kids, here's the good news. In 2016, the last year for which I found statistics, 623,471 Americans died of abortion.
How many cruise ships would you be willing to take out of service to prevent that from happening in 2020? Let's see, that's a death rate of less than 0.0001 percent, I don't guess we need to worry about that. We're getting pretty good with these numbers, aren't we?
Of course, that's 186 fatalities per live birth, so the case fatality rate is actually quite a bit higher than Covid. Someone let the CDC know, OK? As Cuomo says, if it saves even one life ...
Obsidian Stout.
I read....Obsidian Stool. Oh...the poor bastard drinks Guinness.
Sarcasm and humor are tough in these troubled and seemingly worsening times.
I'm turning 60 tomorrow. Tonight my wife said "well the kids aren't coming and I didn't get you anything because the place I was getting it from shut down. But we'll celebrate sometime in the future."
"That's OK," I said, "I'll just stay 59 for a while longer."
I read....Obsidian Stool. Oh...the poor bastard drinks Guinness.
LOL!
Did you know that when a person ages from 59 to 60 that their chances of dying from COVID-19 rise dramatically? Just saying'
no they dont
stevew said...I'm not looking at my 401k nor my other investments, might make me want to kill myself.
Actually, you should. Fortunately, I realigned mine in January before this bug hit to something more age appropriate. I hadn't done that in over 10 years. So I took a hit, but not as bad as if I had done nothing. But definitely don't sell.
Jim Talent said ...
The whole debate rests on the assumption that there is an inevitable trade off between health interests and economic interests. That assumption is mostly false, and the officials who actually have to make decisions, and their advisors, understand it is false.
I basically agree with this. I know people in countries where there has been relatively little in the way of government action. They still shut down. People stop sending their kids to school, stop going to work if they don't have to, reduce social interactions, stop buying crap, etc. The economic effects are still dramatic, while the epidemiological effects are less effective. Once people start dying it gets people's attention.
There is, no doubt, an optimum approach. I would guess this is a relatively short but total shutdown at the very start of the plague, as imposed by the Chinese or Singaporese, or apparently voluntarily adopted by the South Koreans. But that is no longer an option for us.
Anyway, similar evidence now coming out of other European countries. Obesity now also a major risk factor; it seems the fatter you are, the more lung trouble.
Fortunately, I've slowly shed about 40 lbs, over then last 2 years. I should still lose another 10 to reach an "ideal" but the same techniques don't seem to work. My body seems tenacious in holding onto what might be a cushion for surviving the ravishes of a disease.
ReichsFuhrer Brown may eventually lift the shut-down, but when will that bar reopen?
Helluva name for a bar. Do they serve Putsch Lager?
I refuse to believe there's no safe response other than LOCK EVERYTHING DOWN. I think there are plenty of businesses that could get up and running assuming they practice safe distancing. Yes, Keep the schools closed. And no big crowded sporting events. But there are plenty of business where there's little social interaction. An example of the overkill was Starbucks. There's no reason why they could not have kept their pickup service. There's no reason why restaurants can'tre-open if they have every seated a certain distance apart. Etc.
I know some places have allowed the parks to stay open but have closed the restrooms. What sense does that make?
@narciso: I'm not sure if you meant that for me but if you did, you missed my sarcasm.
Obesity increases your risk for any number of diseases. But thin people still die.
My wife has stayed 35, for 10 years. Its worked for her.
rcocean said...
An example of the overkill was Starbucks. There's no reason why they could not have kept their pickup service.
I doubt that it would have proved economically viable. Starbucks was the first place I stopped going. Lot of young, unconcerned, possibly asymptomatic workers, working in a tight area.
As things progress, you start to get a trust problem with food and beverage services. A lot of the small food businesses here are in trouble. One scheme they came up with to keep functioning was to ask for donations to buy food for the workers in the local hospital. But, the workers were reluctant to eat the food. Prefer to eat something they controlled.
Starbucks initially removed seating from stores in China, then closed for a period...reopening stores beginning late February, I believe. CEO predicts similar curve in US.
Good epidemiology paper by Christopher Murray at IHME
The results were posted here a couple of days ago. AFAICT they use the Farr model so disparaged when it was used in an article published in Medium. Personally I don't see anything wrong with it as an approximation, but what do I know. When I looked at the projections for NY they seemed a bit pessimistic given the data currently on hand. Not that NY isn't going to have a couple of rough weeks, I think they will begin putting patients in the overflow emergency beds tomorrow or the day after.
"The Food and Drug Administration on Sunday issued an emergency use authorization for hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine,…
They feared being left behind.
"…decades-old malaria drugs championed by President Donald Trump for coronavirus treatment despite scant evidence."
This is why I've stopped getting my news from the MSM.
I know some places have allowed the parks to stay open but have closed the restrooms. What sense does that make?
Well, it makes sense from the standpoint of protecting the people who clean them.
The public has come to expect that clean restrooms be maintained for their comfort. I understand the public nature of parks, people even have the nerve to come into private retail establishments and demand to use facilities without even shopping there. This is a very new and recent phenomenon. My parents (R.I.P.) taught me not to do such a thing.
Will this news of extended quarantine lead to a second run on TP?
Inga said...
“Nobody said it was "just hysterics."”
Oh please. Just because you have a bad memory the rest of us don’t.
What you have is a vivid imagination and TDS.
“What you have is a vivid imagination and TDS.”
I haven’t been mentioning Trump on purpose for these last few weeks until today . And today I said it sounded like he had a realization. Tell me what I’ve said during this crisis that reflects badly on Trump. Go ahead, I’ll wait.
1. Govt workers will be fine. Paychecks but no work.
2. Folks with pensions will be fine.
3. Active Duty military will be fine
4. Rich folks will be fine.
5. Arnold Schwarzenegger and other rich Hollywood assholes telling us to stay home will be fine.
6. Essential folks will be fine.
7. Doctors & nurses will be stressed.
8. Blue collar, private sector, small business folks - sadly - are gonna have to scramble.
Bay Area Guy will be fine - but so what? I’m just one guy.
Inga said...I haven’t been mentioning Trump on purpose for these last few weeks until today . And today I said it sounded like he had a realization. Tell me what I’ve said during this crisis that reflects badly on Trump. Go ahead, I’ll wait.
So I just finished searching all of Althouse's posts tagged "Trump and medicine" back to January while word searching the comments with "Inga." I really didn't find her berating Trump over the corona virus. I did find an awful lot of Inga antipathy, even in threads where she didn't comment. You guys should give her that credit.
Inga: "I haven’t been mentioning Trump on purpose for these last few weeks until today . And today I said it sounded like he had a realization. Tell me what I’ve said during this crisis that reflects badly on Trump. Go ahead, I’ll wait."
The evidence clearly shows that, except for 1 very brief aside/comment which included the hoax claim that Trump had called the coronavirus a hoax, I have seen nothing from Inga re: Trump that one could characterize as any sort of attack for several weeks.
certain oxes gored
"The whole debate rests on the assumption that there is an inevitable trade off between health interests and economic interests. That assumption is mostly false, and the officials who actually have to make decisions, and their advisors, understand it is false."
You might want to consider, that if there is a tradeoff between my economic interests, and someone else's health interests, it makes a considerable difference who has to decide how that tradeoff will be made. When you say, "the officials who actually have to make decisions", you are assuming that I will just naturally allow some collection of parasites to eat my children's inheritance. Why do they "have to make decisions"? I've got a rifle. I can make decisions.
Rebel fooled me; I'm not familiar with him as much as other are. And yes, he hit it perfect.
Rabel: I totally got the sarc. Pitch perfect. So I guess that makes me part of the sick sarc club. ...Humor is a weird thing. We deliberately falsify our account of the world —absurd juxtaposition, exaggeration, suppression— to gain a laugh by losing our usual grip. Is it a way to jab ourselves, remind ourselves that our conventions and pieties are provisional and often quite unsupported? The classic jester/monarch situation invites such meditation. The king is all about serious control, order, propriety. But it needs a relief valve, a critic, a control function that can keep things from going totally off-track, a testing ground for new responses to emergent phenomena, try out adaptive moves at lower cost. I could argue that without a good fool, a king is hard pressed to school himself as he must.
Long story line short, I think Rabel’s playfulness was pretty obvious. Maybe those who missed it need to reconsider how they have dialed up their filters?
Inga trying to draw a parallel between abortion and allowing someone like John Prine to die of natural causes is intellectually dishonest.
The two things are not parallel, in the most important way: Nobody is actively trying to kill John Prine.
For the two situations to be similar, Rabel will have to advocate hacking off John Prine's limbs without anaesthetic, and carving out his lungs and selling them to a lab so Rabel can buy a Lamborghini.
I thought Rebal was a leftist being sarcastic. So my filter is I know leftist that think like that - Republicans will throw Grandma off the cliff, that sort of thing. I know a leftist who chortled with joy when LaVoy Finicum was killed in OR. I see truth in sarcasm I suppose.
Not wishing ill on Prine, but the salient points are his age + comorbidities.
True, his vocation may have put him in higher risk situations.
I hope he pulls through. It would be interesting to get his take.
Rabel should’ve been less convincing. Plus he left in a huff, he could’ve explained he was being sarcastic.
(especially on that Dylan song ;)
The goal is to limit excess deaths and collateral damage. This is not selective-child. We cannot afford to indulge PC ("Progressive Church", Pro-Choice religion), the left's "wicked solution", and avoid reconciling the two.
That said, it will be interesting to see if the Wuhan-sourced virus and Covid19 disease curb the progress of globalism, immigration reform, and planned parenthood (i.e. excess deaths).
"Inga trying to draw a parallel between abortion and allowing someone like John Prine to die of natural causes is intellectually dishonest."
Much as it pains me to come to Igna's defense, I don't believe she drew that parallel. I thought I drew that parallel. I was trying to point out that Igna, and the Left generally, have been pushing a "victim" narrative, as they are fond of doing. They are saying that their actions are intended to save vulnerable lives, and anyone who questions their actions is questioning saving lives. But they don't include babies among vulnerable lives, because -- "A woman's Right To Choose!!". Meaning, babies can't vote.
From chicagoboyz.net
“A Fresh Perspective on the Covid-19 Numbers”
Posted by Jonathan on March 29th, 2020 (All posts by Jonathan)
Robert Prost emails:
I wanted to share with you, my take on the corona virus situation in the United States.
But first, a brief introduction. I am professor emeritus at the Medical College of Wisconsin in Milwaukee.
I have a PhD in Biophysics and spent my career in MRI-based research, mostly on brain tumors.
I check the Johns Hopkins’ website every day for the progress of the epidemic and I had a feeling about the numbers I’ve been seeing.
The website: https://www.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6 is very good.
graph referenced
The daily case number totals can be extracted by mousing over each plotted point in the graph in the lower right hand corner of the screen.
The curve at first looks daunting, it seems to be shooting straight up. But being at least in part a mathematician, I wondered about the velocity of this upward move in cases.
If the velocity was going up, the epidemic would be accelerating, the epidemic would be worsening. If going down, it would be getting better (slowing).
So I plotted the data and took the first derivative with respect to time. What it shows is that the velocity of the epidemic in the US is definitely slowing, and quickly.
While the number of confirmed cases continues to rise, it is rising more slowly. If there were a confounding effect from increased surveillance (more testing revealing yet more cases), the apparent velocity should be going up.
Instead, it is going down. So I believe the effect to be real, and thus I believe we are witnessing the beginning of the end of the epidemic. While this data says nothing about the potential for re-emergence in the fall or following spring, it does suggest that we have in fact, flattened the curve.
"Rabel should’ve been less convincing. Plus he left in a huff, he could’ve explained he was being sarcastic."
See what I mean? Can anyone possibly be that clueless? And still be able to spell? She is playing our game by her rules, and winning. I think she is a 46-year-old professor of Literature at some small, New England liberal arts college, reveling in his effortless command of the character he has created.
“See what I mean? Can anyone possibly be that clueless? And still be able to spell? She is playing our game by her rules, and winning. I think she is a 46-year-old professor of Literature at some small, New England liberal arts college, reveling in his effortless command of the character he has created.”
Me, SteveW, JML, Joan and even Jupiter for a moment thought Rabel was sincere in his vileness.
Sam Girgis
@BioBreakout
·
4h
Plane from Shanghai arrived at JFK Airport in New York Sunday morning carrying an extraordinary load: 12 million gloves, 130K N95 masks, 1.7 million surgical masks, 50K gowns, 130K hand sanitizer units, and 36K thermometers. #PPE #COVID19 #SARSCoV2
--
Uhh..Yay?
Inga
Rabel would not have been as effective had he not been convincing. He was portraying something that really is vile. And hopefully most readers see it clearly. Because that vileness has been on display here, seriously.
More info on the reactant shortage:
https://www.statnews.com/2020/03/10/shortage-crucial-chemicals-us-coronavirus-testing/
Buck Sexton
@BuckSexton
·
1h
Wonder, honestly, what percentage of journalists have really thought about what the economic slowdown- including the sale of products that are the basis for ad model supported media platforms- will do to their companies. Traffic can be sky high, you still need to sell inventory
Tim Pool reporting on the break down of social order in Italy : https://youtu.be/aiLAKizjm5g
A friend that I used to work with once pointed out to me that the mean of human existence over the last 200,000 years has been about day to day survival. For about the last one hundred years or so, much of the west, or the free world if you will, has risen above that, to here to for unknown levels of prosperity. He would then ask why so many people seem to believe that we can't revert to the mean? You see, those of us who are worried about the economy, are worried about more than are personal income, even if we express things in those terms. We are worried that if you end the lockdown to late, that what society is left behind will not worth living in.
I do wonder a bit if seeing images from the city, hospital he (and Fauci) has natural affinity towards has too much influence given the suggestion of regionally targeted approaches a short time ago.
Right on buckwheat, f them.
Andy said...Tim Pool reporting on the break down of social order in Italy
If there is herd immunity then surely there is herd mentality.
Why is Ca so Snafu on Testing?
Ca is doing 1-2 thousand tests a day.
A few Swags...
1. Ca is controlling most testing, and has contracted out only limited testing. Quest Diagnostics I think with a lab in San Clemente, that is currently at 1k per day, and they hope eventually to add a 2nd lab to get up to 10k per day.
2. Ca ordered 150,000 test kits from Hong Kong.
3. Poor cdc guidelines changing all the time on who to test, so lack of urgency to get more tests done.
4. Lack of outsourcing of testing. NY seems to be doing more outsourcing, so is getting more tests done.
5. I think the fda let each state decide / approve on testing. My guess is Ca is going flow in this area.
Crap. John Prine is seriously ill...
Far too many rock-n-rollers have lived lives of intemperance. Booze, cigarettes, and [pot, speed, smack, coke, whatever] have taken their inevitable toll. I had never heard of John Prine until "exiled" mentioned him. Wow. I saw his picture. How old is that dude, I thought. 73?? He looks like 93.
A lot of baby-boomer icons are going to take their final bows in the weeks and months ahead, and their histories of self-abuse will hasten them along, unfortunately. Except Keith Richards. Nothing but an extinction-level bolide impact will take him out.
"Plane from Shanghai arrived at JFK Airport in New York Sunday morning carrying an extraordinary load: 12 million gloves, 130K N95 masks, 1.7 million surgical masks, 50K gowns, 130K hand sanitizer units, and 36K thermometers. #PPE #COVID19 #SARSCoV2"
Send it all back. It's all cheap Chinese junk. When will be learn? Hopefully it will work better than the Chinese COVID-19 testing kits they sent to Spain with a 30% accuracy rate.
https://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2020/03/27/world/asia/27reuters-health-coronavirus-shenzhen-bioeasy-spain.html
Ken B said...
Inga
Rabel would not have been as effective had he not been convincing. He was portraying something that really is vile. And hopefully most readers see it clearly. Because that vileness has been on display here, seriously.
No.
What what you are doing is bullshit.
You cannot make an argument yourself so you resort to ad hominem.
You are a disgusting piece of shit misrepresenting what people say and what they believe.
You are all embarrassing yourselves with your inability to think or deal with reality and your completely amoral lying.
You deserve no respect and will receive none.
Ken B and Inga, just remember that there are people who are hearing you on here.
Gk1,
Reliability as well as sanitation.
Mr. Trump on Sunday appeared to suggest
Ah, the New York Times is trying their hand at mind reading again. While others work to make more surgical masks and ventilators (not nurses and doctors to run them), the New York Times works on mind reading.
Far too many rock-n-rollers have lived lives of intemperance. Booze, cigarettes, and [pot, speed, smack, coke, whatever] have taken their inevitable toll. I had never heard of John Prine until "exiled" mentioned him. Wow. I saw his picture. How old is that dude, I thought. 73?? He looks like 93.
You obviously don't know shit about John Prine and yet you think you know enough about him to besmirch his character.
He looks older than he is because he has survived cancer twice.
Trump liked the Resurrection imagery. I did, too. There is nothing wrong with that.
It didn't work out. He knows it. I know it.
Who says the Trump administration isn't transparent?
Whoever says that it isn't transparent is a liar.
We are worried that if you end the lockdown to late, that what society is left behind will not worth living in.
3/30/20, 12:51 AM
Just throwing this out there: weakness leads to war. In high school debate (before the fall of the Wall, to be sure) it would take about three or four steps to conjure up a nuclear war scenario stemming from this crisis. Even now people are afraid China is going to "lash out" just for the world calling them on their shitty behavior leading to this.
Arguably, a nuclear war would be worse than a 2x-10x flu season. Arguably, a nuclear war would more readily be caused by economic collapse than by a 2x-10x flu season.
I don't expect this rather bony argument to be addressed, as none of my other questions seem to get addressed by the overreacting side, hence, won't bother fleshing out the skeleton for now.
Trump ruined Easter— again. :(
"Me, SteveW, JML, Joan and even Jupiter for a moment thought Rabel was sincere in his vileness."
Now Igna. As a 46-year-old professor of Literature at some small, New England liberal arts college, you must realize that the vileness was not that of the author, Rabel, but of the character he created.
@Nichevo, precisely. If we’re going to make worst-case modeling the basis of public policy, we should be preparing for nuclear war within a week.
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