February 14, 2020

"What makes Buttigieg an easy and reassuring choice for these older, white, straight people, and a disturbing possibility for the queer people who seem to be criticizing him for not being gay enough?"

"It is that he is profoundly, essentially conservative. He is an old politician in a young man’s body, a straight politician in a gay man’s body."

Writes Masha Gessen in "The Queer Opposition to Pete Buttigieg, Explained" (in The New Yorker).
He chose to wait [to come out] until after he graduated from college, after he had served in the military, after he had been elected mayor.... until after attitudes toward homosexuality had changed...

One kind of queer politics is rooted in ideas of liberation, revolutionary change, and solidarity. The vision of this politics is a society that is radically changed by many kinds of people fighting many kinds of injustice, a society in which economic, social, political, and sexual relationships have been transformed....

The other, more mainstream, and often more visible kind of L.G.B.T. politics aims to erase difference. Its message to straight people is “We are just like you, and all we want is the right to have what you have: marriage, children, a house with a picket fence, and the right to serve in the military.”....

Buttigieg embodies the second kind of gay experience and the second kind of gay politics.... Buttigieg is the ultimate candidate of the country’s post-2016 trauma. He is not a woman. He is not a socialist. He is decidedly not a revolutionary. He does not make big, sweeping promises...
MEANWHILE: "Did anybody catch a screenshot or see what [Washington Post writer Dave] Weigel tweeted? Supposedly he tweeted something from a movie that was clearly homophobic (towards Pete?), sparked some Twitter fury and took it down. Does anyone know what he did?" (Reddit).

241 comments:

1 – 200 of 241   Newer›   Newest»
Tregonsee said...

Thanks, I needed a good laugh to start my day.

donald said...

He’s a dirty smelly fucking communist just like the rest of em. Just sayin.

Shouting Thomas said...

What in the hell is it with the romance of the red diaper baby?

Other people's kinks are just about impossible to understand.

wendybar said...

He's definitely NOT moderate. Abortion up to the day of birth?? Medicare for all?? Green New Deal?? Sounds like Bernie Light to me!!

gilbar said...

He is an old politician in a young man’s body, a straight politician in a gay man’s body.

isn't he, IN FACT, Jo Biden??

The idea that Either is, in Any Way, conservative; it Hilarious!

Doug said...

He's not a socialist? Who the hell believes that?

gilbar said...

wendybar's talked me into it!

Mayor Pete isn't Jo Biden, he's Bernie!
Of course, the secret secret is.... THEY'RE ALL THE SAME PERSON!

Hot New Relationship Book Warns Women: 'Wake Up! He's A Shapeshifter'

wendybar said...

2 Choices. Capitalism or Socialism. This is the choice Americans have in November. Choose wisely!!!

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Donald Trump backtracks and ADMITS sending Rudy Giuliani to Ukraine to investigate his political rivals - despite previous denials


tim maguire said...

They're upset that he's trying to be electable?

jaydub said...

Media starts to burnish up the closet commie to make him look acceptable to low information Democrat voters. Ain't going to work.

jeremyabrams said...

The article generalizes from his manners to his intended policies, when, under his father's guidance, his manners were formed to deflect people from his intended policies.

wendybar said...

gilbar said...

Mayor Pete isn't Jo Biden, he's Bernie!
Of course, the secret secret is.... THEY'RE ALL THE SAME PERSON!

DING, DING, DING!!! WINNER WINNER CHICKEN DINNER!!!!

rhhardin said...

His advantage is that he's not any of the others, but that's true of them all.

Paco Wové said...

Gessen – she's that radical lesbian who wants to "destroy marriage", right? So I guess we know where she's coming from.

tim maguire said...

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...Donald Trump backtracks and ADMITS sending Rudy Giuliani to Ukraine to investigate his political rivals - despite previous denials

So?

Paco Wové said...

Looks like somebody's hunting squirrels this morning.

Johnathan Birks said...

Oh brother. Things will not end well for Mayo Pete methinks.

wendybar said...

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...Donald Trump backtracks and ADMITS sending Rudy Giuliani to Ukraine to investigate his political rivals - despite previous denials

Now do Obama!!!

MayBee said...

How awful that being gay is no longer just allowed to be a sexuality, but now must come with a package of thoughts and political positions.

Lucid-Ideas said...

What in the hell did i just read? I would've understood Proust better than whatever that was.

rhhardin said...

They don't have a candidate that appeals to enough women. Just small political splinter groups.

Elizabeth Warren is my choice, for easy indian jokes.

Amadeus 48 said...

One kind of queer politics made San Francisco what it is today, Poop City.

MikeR said...

"Donald Trump backtracks and ADMITS sending Rudy Giuliani to Ukraine to investigate his political rivals - despite previous denials" Simplest reading: His critics are misrepresenting what he said before, and what he said now.
"political rivals": of course he didn't say that. He said what he has always said: he wants Ukraine to investigate and help us investigate how the Establishment tried to use them to attack their political rivals.

rhhardin said...

What did the cherokees do to homosexuals.

Dec 14, 2016 - The Cherokee Nation, one of the largest registered Native American tribes in the U.S., has officially decided to recognize same-sex marriage.

But they have reservations.

gilbar said...

to fill out what MayBee said...

gay no longer just allowed to be a sexuality, but comes with a package of thoughts and politics
black no longer just allowed to be a race, but comes with a package of thoughts and politics
female no longer just allowed to be a sex, but comes with a package of thoughts and politics
hispanic no longer just allowed to be a race, but comes with a package of thoughts and politics

agentlesoul said...

The article links to https://www.queersagainstpete.com/letter
which is a fascinating and sad bill of particulars against Hiz Honor. The main thing is, he is not abnormal enough for them. Don't know what to say to that.

David Begley said...

No conservative would be for the Green New Deal and in favor of abolishing the Electoral College.

Pete is a Leftist.

Amadeus 48 said...

Everything is Trump's fault. Everything! After all, he is the most pro-gay person ever elected president (Obama evolved).

One of the nice things about the politics of the center and the right (as opposed to identity politics and the left, generally) is that it occasionally touches down on Planet Earth.

These folks are hysterical all the time.

MikeR said...

Interesting example of two movies: As far as a normal American like me is concerned, Buttigieg is exactly the same as all the other Democratic candidates, espousing a lot of policies that sound completely insane to me. I can't really tell the candidates apart in actual policies. The main difference is that some of them say they hate rich people and others just have the same economy-wrecking policies as the first group.
But now I see that some are watching a different movie, one where Wokeness is all that counts, and the candidates are distinguished by how violent their Wokeness is.

rhhardin said...

This guy doesn't recognize pig latin. Nobody has a classical education anymore.

Among the Lakota, Dakota and Nakota tribes, gays and lesbians were called “winkte“ (pronounced “wink-tay”). But if you look up the word in the New Comprehensive Edition of the Lakota dictionary, which is the edition compiled and edited by Eugene Buechel and Paul Manhart, both Catholic priests serving on Indian boarding school missions in South Dakota, you will find that these editors were not able to separate their Catholic religion from the reality of the word. Their dictionary translates “winkte“ to mean “a hermaphrodite; a plant or animal having both male and female reproductive organs.”

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/native-americans-and-homosexuality_b_2267967

Jeff Brokaw said...

“Profoundly, essentially conservative”?

Right. That’s why he is married to a guy, and wants to legalize all drugs and confiscate all guns. (Right? I think that’s true, but I spend literally zero time following the policy positions of any of these yahoos).

Why do you bother to read these bubble-dwelling partisan douchebags? They have no frigging idea what a conservative really thinks about anything, and actively get in the way of an honest exchange of ideas. They’re toxic even though they use big words and complex sentences.

Amadeus 48 said...

I am glad you read The New Yorker, Althouse, so I don't have to. They lost me as a subscriber at 5:32 AM on the say after they admitted that their Bret Kavanaugh "Wanglegate" piece didn't check out, but they published it anyway.

Bushman of the Kohlrabi said...

Just another lame attempt to make him look moderate.

whitney said...

The Democratic party major demographic is single white women and they love gay guys. That's what it comes down to

Jeff Brokaw said...

@MikeR 7:07 - great comment, I completely agree. It’s a race to the bottom for Wokeness.

Do they realize how many people hate all of that?

rhhardin said...

Not hard. Take the reaction and construct the offense. A decline in rapes means women are getting less attractive.

J. Farmer said...

I read this article the other day and thought it was pretty awful. From its annoying Vox-like headline ending with "Explained" to the notion that a nonbinary lesbian somehow speaks for "queer" people instead of her own privilege-drenched, upper-class New York perspective. The whole thing boils down to the fact that Buttigieg's homosexuality does not count because he isn't left enough and thus isn't gay enough, as if one had anything to do with the other.

My absolutely favorite part, though, was when she quoted Yale professor's essay "analyzing" this photo: “This photo is about a lot of things,” LaFleur wrote. “But one of its defining features is its heterosexuality. It’s offering us the promise that our first gay first family might actually be a straight one.”

Apparently, there are segments of the gay left that will not be happy until the cover of Time magazine features full-on insertion.

p.s. Trump reveals he would vote for a gay presidential candidate:

Fox News’s Geraldo Rivera asked Trump on an episode of his podcast released Thursday if Americans would “vote for a gay man to be president.”
“I think so,” Trump said. “I think there would be some that wouldn’t, and I wouldn’t be among that group, to be honest with you.”

rhhardin said...

Some romcom had the woman calling off marriage when she discovered her (male) fiancee wasn't gay. She felt tricked. google doesn't find the right one for me.

Gusty Winds said...

"He is not a socialist. He is decidedly not a revolutionary. He does not make big, sweeping promises..."

He wants to abolish the Electoral College. right....

Automatic_Wing said...

Buttigieg needs to dress up like one of the Village People to be considered an authentic gay. But not the Indian Chief - that's already covered.

Michael K said...

I think ARM should go to Ukraine and get to the bottom of this scandal.

He is obviously obsessed and that is the best way to get Trump out of his head,

gilbar said...

whitney said...
The Democratic party major demographic is single white women and they love gay guys.


I wonder how the thinking went on this?
[scenario]
HEY! I've done the math, and i have found us the winning ticket!
check it out!
...A Majority of people are White
...A Majority of people are Women
...A Majority of people aren't Married
This means that a TRIPLE MAJORITY of people are Single White Women!
We take That Group, and we can't be beat!! The Math Proves It!
[/scenario]

JRoberts said...

"Automatic_Wing said...
Buttigieg needs to dress up like one of the Village People to be considered an authentic gay. But not the Indian Chief - that's already covered."

That's what I was thinking. Would they be happy if his campaign rallies looked like a Gay Pride parade?

Big Mike said...

@ARM (6:55), if Joe Biden hasn’t been openly, flagrantly, corrupt, what would Giuliani have had to investigate?

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Asking thoughtful questions.

BleachBit-and-Hammers said...

Is he radical leftw3ing enough - under that fake-sweet facade?

rehajm said...

You don't need to court the gay vote to win. If he's the choice he'll still get some of em. It's that shit brand of story meant to change him into what someone wants...

rehajm said...

He does not make big, sweeping promises

How can you tell? He could be hiding them in his big sweeping platitudes...

I Have Misplaced My Pants said...

Yeah, little gay petz is definitely a Stuff White Women Like thing.

I have five sisters in law and every single one of them fawns over their 65 year old gay brother and his 25 year old 'boyfriend.' It's disgusting on a number of levels, including how different their behavior would be if their brother was straight and he had a 25 year old kept woman instead of a kept man.

Fernandinande said...

I'm shocked that an outfit with "New York" in its name would lie so blatantly in an attempt to sell this radical racist socialist guy.

I Have Misplaced My Pants said...

Gessen is not wrong in that Democrat women like their gays like they like their other minorities: nonthreatening.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Masha Gessen does NOT understand what Conservative in politics is. She definitely needs to expand her horizons. Hint. It is not how you dress or perform. It is what you believe in and what you do!!

Buttigieg might be "profoundly" conservative in the radial gay community but in the political arena he is just a Socialist and budding totalitarian.

AND jeremyabrams said... at 6:55am here The article generalizes from his manners to his intended policies, when, under his father's guidance, his manners were formed to deflect people from his intended policies.

This could not be more profound or true. Look into his family's history if you want to know the man. Pete Buttigieg's father was a Marxist professor who lauded the Communist Manifesto

The polished exterior does not reveal the true intentions. At least Bernie looks and acts like the lunatic that he is and doesn't hide his intentions.

Don't buy the poisoned ice cream cone!!!!!

Amadeus 48 said...

This is all relative. To some of Masha's readers, Buttafuoco's weirdest, most-changey positions (some cited in these comments, which would cause me to run screaming from the room) seem conservative.

However, the idea that a gay couple wants to get married is, at one level, a conservative one. In 2020, the idea that a couple of adult human beings want to live to together under vows of commitment and fidelity is good for the stability of society, and it ought to be celebrated. If some religious sect says that God blesses it, we can argue about that, but this should be a free country. Heaven knows, a lot of my friends' children don't get married. That can't be good.

The beauty of marriage is in keeping vows of fidelity and mutual support.

Happy St. Valentine's Day. I'm off to read the Parlement of Foules.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

It was the sprinkles that got 'em!

It is always the sprinkles that get you. And the Glittering Generalities. Watch out for those.

MadisonMan said...

Buttigieg is a floor wax and a Dessert topping!

hombre said...

"It is that he is profoundly, essentially conservative. He is an old politician in a young man’s body, a straight politician in a gay man’s body."

Is there something in the water that causes New York editors to turn a blind eye to this sort of “profoundly, essentially” stupid and illogical assertion?

Roy Jacobsen said...

"It is that he is profoundly, essentially conservative."

Having an Inigo Montoya moment here. (And not the one where he says "You killed my father.")

Dr. Graphene said...

So now gay means straight and socialist - but only 95% socialist - means conservative?

Sounds Orwellian, but that’s probably just me.

mccullough said...

Next this writer will tell us that Bloomberg is a tall man in a short man’s body.

wild chicken said...

I don't know what that image meant to convey.

traditionalguy said...

He decidedly is Marxist to the core. Who cares how he has sex.

Howard said...

He is as much of a red diaper doper baby (h/t: Dr Michael Savage) as you people are warmongering racist sexist trans-homo-genital phobic cruel and unusual punishment fans.

My son doesn't like him because he did an interview with Gwyneth paltrow and apparently he went full goop on anti vaxxing.

And I would agree he is not gay enough. The problem with gays like him is it's almost impossible to tell the players without a scorecard. Not all of us are blessed with gaydar. If he just had a few more stereotypical features traits ticks fashion style lisp accent word choice, then he would be gay enough to be our first gay president. I think you all know what I mean. Just like our only black President Bill Clinton overshadowed Barack Hussein Oreo who is not black enough. The funny thing is Michelle Obama was definitely too black for you people. Comedy gold

Todd said...

"What makes Buttigieg an easy and reassuring choice for these older, white, straight people, and a disturbing possibility for the queer people who seem to be criticizing him for not being gay enough?"

"It is that he is profoundly, essentially conservative. He is an old politician in a young man’s body, a straight politician in a gay man’s body."

Writes Masha Gessen in "The Queer Opposition to Pete Buttigieg, Explained" (in The New Yorker).


The only way he is "profoundly, essentially conservative" is if you think Bernie is a main-line, centralist Democrat, along with AOC.

How can these people be SO skewed in their outlook or is this a physiological game meant to deceive the "crowd" and raise him up as the "safe choice" instead of Bernie?

TJM said...

LOL - the best advice Mayor Pete was given was from a member of the Navy Seal team that killed Bin Laden: stop playing the war hero because you will be found out. Shades of John Kerry

Big Mike said...

@mccullough, I was reading your comment while drinking my morning coffee. You bastard!

Howard said...

TJM: Exactly. Next thing you know we will discover a phony medical report that his rich Sugar Daddy paid for to make the claim that he was unfit for military service due to bone spurs.

TJM said...

Howard,

Pertinet ad rem

J. Farmer said...

Conservative, as an adjective, can describe attributes other than one’s politics.

mockturtle said...

I think she said Buttyjug 'is conservative' not 'is a conservative'. Meaning he's not the flamboyant type. Politically, he's the same old ProgProp.

narciso said...



those words you are using

narciso said...

expert at missing the point

Leland said...

Conservative, as an adjective, can describe attributes other than one’s politics.

Sure, but the context is a column about the politics of a politician. Do you next want to argue the definition of "is"?

Two-eyed Jack said...

McCullough, I believe the preferred phrasing around here would be "Bloomberg is a tall man the size of a short man.'

narciso said...

here's an interesting story

Anonymous said...

I think this sort of thing ought to be encouraged: escalating, ever louder infighting among extremists (yes, Buttigieg is an extremist) about issues that are very low down on the list of issues that are of interest or import to most Americans, if they make the list at all.

Howard said...

Vanilla is the most awesome flavor enhancer. I buy it in the big bottles. Whatever a recipe calls for double or triple it. my grandkids always beg me to make pancakes because I put vanilla and maple syrup in the batter.

Ironically, vanilla is associated with pure whiteness while it is one of the blackest spices on planet Earth. Vanilla is even blacker than black pepper. How could that be?

TreeJoe said...

This is the absolute purest form of identify politics:

A person's origin story and current physical appearance and declared personal identity traits define their politics. Not their ACTUAL policy positions.

mockturtle said...

Congratulations on your eagerly-awaited hyperlinks, narciso! :-)

narciso said...

when did the new yawker become unreadable carp, I think it was in the 00s

tim maguire said...

Unsurprisingly, the folks in that Reddit thread are trying to get Weigel fired.

And why not? He already holds the the distinction of being the only member of the Journolist who saw any career consequences for after the blow up (of course, the consequences were for blowing the whistle on the Journolist, but, hey, a consequence is a consequence).

Craig Howard said...

One kind of queer politics is rooted in ideas of liberation, revolutionary change, and solidarity.

Yes. The never-ending revolution. Liberals cannot ever admit that some battles are well and truly won, i.e., racism. We must continue to struggle!

And if Pete can't live up to that, then f him.

mockturtle said...

when did the new yawker become unreadable carp, I think it was in the 00s

IIRC, it was about 1990. At least, that was the beginning of their descent and when we canceled our subscription. We actually received a phone call from the magazine to discuss our cancellation [we were not the only ones, I guess] and were told that a British woman had taken it over and had different ideas about content. He said he was sorry to see us go and I said we were sorry to see the magazine go.

narciso said...

it's a nifty hat trick, now with republicans they are automatically unpersons unless deemed otherwise, same with tories in the uk, there was one Pakistani émigré novelist, who relished the stabbing of a thinly disguised said javid, the former chancellor of the exchequer,

Howard said...

Craig: Satisfaction is the end of desire. That's what gives me hope because you people are so satisfied with Trump then xenophobic nationalism will all be over after he's off the stage.

Greg the class traitor said...

"Mayor Pete" waited to come out until he could use doing it to advance the fascist position that "if you want to have a restaurant or wedding related business, you must take part in same sex 'marriages'"

So, he advances the position that "gays are just like the rest of us" only if your "us" is a bunch of thugs

narciso said...

sometimes they seem to following the fact checking tendencies of Michael j fox's character in bright lights, or lack their off,

J. Farmer said...

@Leland:

Sure, but the context is a column about the politics of a politician. Do you next want to argue the definition of "is"?

“Conservative” can describe one’s approach to politics as much as one’s politics themselves. The argument from the Buttigieg/Klobuchar wing against the Bernie wing is that there is only so much change that a society can absorb and that a more cautious/incrementalist approach is preferable to a more radical approach. That is essentially a conservative argument, even if the policies themselves are not necessarily conservative.

Mind you, I think the mayor is a complete empty suit but calling him a “socialist” or a “communist” is inanity.

Jeff Brokaw said...

These comments are so spot on and hilarious... but other than that, Mrs Lincoln, how did you like the play? LOL

Who knew The New Yawker was into comedy these days?

gilbar said...

Howard said...
Vanilla is the most awesome flavor enhancer. I buy it in the big bottles. Whatever a recipe calls for double or triple it. my grandkids always beg me to make pancakes because I put vanilla and maple syrup in the batter.


As much as a pains me, i have to agree with Howard
The most important parts are:
A) make Sure you're using Vanilla! Imitation vanilla is both a Sin and a Crime against Nature
B) the recipes are written in a weird code. If it says 1 teaspoon, that means: At Least one tablespoon
C) Why would you Even Think about a Small bottle? Are you making a single serving?

narciso said...

mostly incompetent, mckinsey apparatchik, but his policies will not redound to the majorities benefit, and that is the point,

narciso said...

well it's kind of a pricey addititive, is there a vanilla cartel controlling the flow,

Todd said...

Howard said...

Craig: Satisfaction is the end of desire. That's what gives me hope because you people are so satisfied with Trump then xenophobic nationalism will all be over after he's off the stage.

2/14/20, 8:49 AM


LOL!

Expecting immigration laws to be respected is xenophobic nationalism! I would settle for our immigration laws to be equal to (and enforced as well as) those in Mexico.

Wanting our international allies to hold up their end of our mutual bargains is "xenophobic nationalism".

Wanting a President that actually likes the country he was elected to lead is "xenophobic nationalism".

What a putz...

John Althouse Cohen said...

He does not make big, sweeping promises

Really? How big and sweeping would his plans need to be to get any credit with this author? Why is "Medicare for all who want it" not enough? Why is legalizing marijuana and decriminalizing possession of hard drugs not enough? Why is the "Douglass Plan" not enough?

Francisco D said...

Why am I getting the impression that being a glib gay man is BootyBoy's primary attribute as a candidate?

Gk1 said...

It's amazing Mayor Pete has lasted this long for someone with such minor qualifications. Apparently he wasn't able to hack it as a mayor of a small Indiana town. Why on earth would we make him president? Other than his sexual preferences what makes him stand out as a candidate?

Rick said...

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...
Donald Trump backtracks and ADMITS sending Rudy Giuliani to Ukraine to investigate his political rivals - despite previous denials


It's interesting left wingers are still pretending this is a big deal. The Obama administration colluded with the Clinton campaign and Russian sources to investigate their political rivals and these same left wingers support that decision. Why do they pretend to believe investigating political rivals is some sort of outrage?

Howard said...

My dear Todd. Thanks for the multiple compliments. Xenophobic nationalism is what Trump preaches to the choir that is most successful form of political performance art theater. You know he is just playing a character. Donald can't stand you people, he thinks your dirty filthy full of germs poor and stupid. Useful idiots I think is the appropriate term of art.

narciso said...

they seem to have conceded the argument to al gore

narciso said...

re this kerfluffle

Rick said...

Conservative, as an adjective, can describe attributes other than one’s politics.

Why would someone make this point to criticize commenters instead of the original article which uses his personal supposedly "conservative" lifestyle to claim he is not a socialist?


He is not a socialist. He is decidedly not a revolutionary. He does not make big, sweeping promises...

Scott M said...

Another chapter in the ever-expanding book entited: "They Will Never Be Satisfied"

Browndog said...

narciso said...

here's an interesting story


I watched a documentary on 9/11 last night and was shocked to see Indonesia gave the FBI rock solid, specific intel and they ignored it as "non-specific".

Any way, back to gay talk....

narciso said...

what they really mean

narciso said...

and subsequently, when Mitchell and Jensen, brought forth actionable intelligence, mueller with comey as his wingman, ran interference to prevent it's inclusion,

Bay Area Guy said...

Mayor Pete's problem is not that he's gay. His problem is that he's a leftist proposing bad ideas.

To these woke gay activists, his problem is that he doesn't act gay enough? Oy vey, are they dumb.

exhelodrvr1 said...

Conservative?

Nonapod said...

Here's Mayor Pete's positions

Here's some highlights:

Abolish the death penalty
End Cash bail reform
Eliminate Private Prisons

$15 minimun wage
12 week paid leave
"Study" reparations

He's "against for-profit" charter schools (unclear if that means he wants them eliminated or not)
With regards to college loans, he's for increasing aid and "Canceling" existing debt.
Boost teacher pay

He's for eliminating the electoral college
He's for granting felons voting rights, but only once they're out of prison.

He wants to end offshore drilling
He wants to end new leases for oil and gas fracking on fed land
He wants to introduce carbon emission taxes

He opposes "Medicare For All" but wants to expand existing medicare coverage

He wants citizenship for dreamers
He wants to decriminalize illegal entry

He wants to undo the Trump tax cuts and increase taxes on "upper-income Americans", increasing the top individual tax rate to 49.9 percent!

Many of these seem pretty extreme to me.

BleachBit-and-Hammers said...

DBQ @ 7:47


That!

J. Farmer said...

@Rick:

Why would someone make this point to criticize commenters instead of the original article which uses his personal supposedly "conservative" lifestyle to claim he is not a socialist?

I already wrote a comment criticizing the article. And I wrote a comment explaining why “conservative” can apply to the mayor’s approach to politics if not his policies.

Todd said...

Howard said...

Donald can't stand you people, he thinks your dirty filthy full of germs poor and stupid. Useful idiots I think is the appropriate term of art.

2/14/20, 9:06 AM


If this is how Trump delivers to the deplorables when he can't stand them, I will take that any day of the week over anything the Democrat ticket has on offer and I am not the only one. He can hate and despise me all day long if he keeps delivering on the economy, on judges, etc.

J. Farmer said...

@Nonapod:

Many of these seem pretty extreme to me.

The country is moving left. This is a predictable (and intended) consequence of years of mass immigration. The traditional base for conservative politics (straight white men and married white women) are becoming a smaller share of the electorate with each passing year.

J. Farmer said...

Donald can't stand you people, he thinks your dirty filthy full of germs poor and stupid. Useful idiots I think is the appropriate term of art.

That’s fine. I’m not too fond of him either. You don’t have to like someone to vote for them, and we’re not electing Mr. Congeniality.

narciso said...

no two generations of political indoctrination

a Bloomberg appointee

Jupiter said...

He wants to Fuck America in the ass. Not very conservative, but gay as a box of birds.

narciso said...

that's about Siraj wihaj, who Is addressing a conference in coral springs, whose offspring ran a terror cell in new mexico,

Rick said...

No one who supports the Green New Deal is a moderate or even a liberal. It is easy to prove the GND is an effort to implement far left style central control over every aspect of society for it's own sake and the presentation as a solution to global warming is a marketing technique.

When the GND was announced people focused on the inclusion of guaranteed income for people who choose not to work. But why include guaranteed income at all even for workers? What does income have to do with global warming? Since the answer is nothing we can conclude the true GND goals have nothing to do with the stated goals. This fact was earlier revealed by Obama years ago when he tried to appoint Van Jones as his Green Czar. Van Jones is a boilerplate left wing social activist with no expertise in climate science. There are dozens of similar occurrences.

Similarly an analysis of the GND shows every element extends government control into business and personal decision making. Many of these have minimal to no plausible connection to climate science but significantly remake society so it is easier to control. This and not combating climate change is the true goal.

J. Farmer said...

This and not combating climate change is the true goal.

Yeah, okay. And immigration control is just a white supremacist plot. And being anti-abortion is just a patriarchal plot to control women’s bodies. And the Iraq War was just a plot to enrich Halliburton. Lather. Rinse. Repeat.

Howard said...

Exactly, J Farmer.

Nonapod said...

@J. Farmer: I agree that the country is moving left for the reasons you state. But I don't believe it's moving left as fast as some people seem to think. I think that a fair number of the positions that are currently being touted by the current crop of Democrat candidates would not be accepted by a solid majority of Americans currently as they're presented here. I think that on most of these issues, a majority of Americans would agree that some change may be needed, but they might find that the solutions that are being proposed here are simply a bridge too far.

My impression of the current state of affairs is that in general most Americans are actually quite content in their personal situations. On the whole they're fairly happy with their healthcare situations, they're happy with the financial situations, and they're happy with a lot of the status quo and don't feel the need for a radical redirection at this moment. I understand that this may seem difficult to believe if you only pay attention to Social Media and the wider main stream media.

mockturtle said...

Howard is just projecting, again. He sees us as "dirty filthy full of germs poor and stupid". We just see him as stupid.

Michael said...

It's not "the country's post-2016 trauma." It's the trauma of the Wokerati and sore-loser Progressives who cannot accept that History is not, after all, on their side and that they are not necessarily the Good People.

Howard said...

Look at Todd showing off his new big boy pants.

BleachBit-and-Hammers said...

Pete has a lot of positive attributes. He's somewhat charming and youthful, mild and calm. But the under-lying communist-socialist philosophies are very troubling.

rcocean said...

Yeah, he's soooooo conservative. Especially his support for open borders, getting rid of ICE and all immigration laws and legalized heroin and cocaine.

Quick, remember when all the D Candidates raised their hands to support medicare for all, and reducing illegal immigration to misdemeanor? Remember that Pete was the only one who didn't agree? Me neither.

BTW, New Yorker seems to be well named. Their writers and their audience all seem to live in Manhattan in person or in spirit.

Howard said...

You have it wrong mock turtle. It's you people that think all those things about yourselves and it's that self-loathing that drives you into the arms of the huckster Trump.

rcocean said...

I just read Bloomberg was getting bid support in Florida. Bad news for the D's. As Trump says Bernie can't win - its all rigged. But Bernie doesn't care. Neither do the Bros. They just want to virtue signal, and lose gracefully.

Ken B said...

Farmer is right on this one. Gessen does not care about *policy* just about sex and identity. She wants him to wear a thong and bugger his husband in front of the Lincoln Memorial. Nothing less would be sufficiently “transgressive”.

chuck said...

Alternate facts are real.

Rick said...

Yeah, okay. And immigration control is just a white supremacist plot. And being anti-abortion is just a patriarchal plot to control women’s bodies. And the Iraq War was just a plot to enrich Halliburton.

Note what Farmer writes doesn't refute a word of what I wrote, it merely redirects attention to something else. He's consistently derided this type of discrediting by association when directed at his preferences so it's amusing to see him resort to it when he can't address the substance of the matter.

rcocean said...

Funniest headline: "People aren't buying that Trump wasn't involved in Stone Case"
In the Huffpuff. yeah, like the D's and MSM that have attacked Trump 24/7/365 for 4 years, are objective observers.

J. Farmer said...

It's the trauma of the Wokerati and sore-loser Progressives who cannot accept that History is not, after all, on their side and that they are not necessarily the Good People.

Sadly, history is on their side. This is the fact that many average American conservatives have yet to fully reckon with.

mockturtle said...

Rick right regarding the GND. That will be the instrument by which the State takes control of every facet of our lives--for the survival of the planet!!! And like the Chinese Cultural Revolution, they will use a bunch of young Gretas to terrorize us into submission.

BleachBit-and-Hammers said...

J Farmer said...

That’s fine. I’m not too fond of him either. You don’t have to like someone to vote for them, and we’re not electing Mr. Congeniality.

Exactly. I don't worship the guy, and most days I find his actions self-defeating and frustrating. But Trump is all that stands between us and quasi-fascist statist tyranny.
I find the D's open desire to give our tax dollars to fund illegal entrants free_________ astonishing.

BleachBit-and-Hammers said...

I think because Pete is a monogamous married man and calls himself a Christian - that is his conservative bona-fides.
All true. I'd take a sexually responsible adult to say ... Bill Clinton/Harvey Weistien.

J. Farmer said...

Note what Farmer writes doesn't refute a word of what I wrote, it merely redirects attention to something else.

I don’t debate 9/11 truthers or young earth creationists either. There’s nothing I could say that would ever change their minds. You believe what you wrote, and I don’t. We can just leave it at that.

Francisco D said...

It's you people that think all those things about yourselves and it's that self-loathing that drives you into the arms of the huckster Trump.

Get a grip, Howard.

When you play amateur psychologist, you just embarrass yourself.

walter said...

CAGW and its proposed remedies polling pretty shabbily.
So by all means, run on that in the general.

rcocean said...

The country is moving Left because you have a big blob of moderate conformists in the Middle who just accept whatever the establishment dishes out. Whatever is "fashionable" Or "Normal" per the Media, this people go along. The only problem occurs when the Establishment gets too far ahead of the boobs, and then has to use the Courts and the media to impose their new values on rest of the Country.

Right now, they're working on Transgenders. In 10 years, Joe Six pack will look back in horror at the "bigoted" dark ages when men couldn't use the Girls bathroom.

Howard said...

When J farmer says history is not on conservatives side, that is true. Evolution is not conservative.

buwaya said...

"straight white men and married white women)"

Without a majority of these you simply don't have a country with the qualities to become the primary global power, and the leading economy. The reason the US is attractive is wealth and power, and consequent high wages and "opportunity", simply put. All ideological and philosophical fancies are just that, or at best emergent phenomena from very worldly and concrete causes.

In other words, intellectuals of all sides are addicted to putting carts before horses. It's like the silly idea that education causes development and progress. All modern experience, which we now have by the truckload, says the opposite. Economic development rather creates a need for education, and education without specific needs is a waste of resources.

And so also culture and ideology. People of a given ancestry, history and culture create ideologies. Change the people and you will change the culture that drives everything.

This area, explaining development, is where simplistic stovepiped economics fails, which it nearly always has. You cannot Milton Friedmanlike explain Nigeria vs Hong Kong. It works only when you have that economic circumstance of "ceteris paribus".

Iman said...

No guy - much less a gay guy - who is quite near a dead ringer for Alfred E. Neuman will ever be elected POTUS.

rcocean said...

Mayor Pete doesn't think Gov. Pence is a good Christian. Also thinks Trump - and his supporters - are racists/bigots/homophobes. But people want to believe in the Mythical Moderate Democrat. I see Trump has finally woken up to the fact that West Virginia Joe is fake Moderate. He now calls him a toll of Pelosi and Schumer - which he always was.

Todd said...

Howard said...

Look at Todd showing off his new big boy pants.

2/14/20, 10:02 AM


So, you got nothing. Understandable and expected...

JAORE said...

Me thinks the left is desperate to find a contender that they can portray as moderate. Repeating that he/she's mainstream a couple of hundred times seems to be the chosen ploy. Then when/if that person is expose, "Lookie, we have another and HE/SHE really is mainstream".

Enter Bloomie. When we get more and more articles that he's not a racist, he's not a misogynist and SOME billionaires are peachy keen. Repeat THAT a few hundred times.

J. Farmer said...

When J farmer says history is not on conservatives side, that is true. Evolution is not conservative.

Its not on the side of some conservatives. Parts of Europe and East Asia are still not poisoned by white guilt.

rcocean said...

There is no real policy difference between Bernie and Pete. You will get extreme left wing judges, and socialism with both of them.

narciso said...

if you control carbon, you control every aspect of life, everything is about carbon, I noted that alchemical paper, about getting rid of non skydragon crime think, from a british architecture professor,

J. Farmer said...

@buwaya:

Agree with everything you wrote there. Hence, we are doomed. The traditional Anglo-Protestant core of this country has been carved away and is being replaced by some kind of polyglot amalgam.

narciso said...

how it works in Europe

Paul Snively said...

Masha Gessen: It is that he is profoundly, essentially conservative.

Bullshit.

Ken B said...

“When J farmer says history is not on conservatives side, that is true. Evolution is not conservative.”
Farmer:
“Its not on the side of some conservatives. Parts of Europe and East Asia are still not poisoned by white guilt.”

Indeed.
Have you read Shelby Steele's book White Guilt? Highly recommended.

I have some hope that the Democrats are alienating Asians with their support for discrimination against them, and their hostility to family and attainment.

J. Farmer said...

@Paul Snively:

“Moderate” is a relative term. As the country moves more to the left so too will the definition of what constitutes a “moderate.”

buwaya said...

It pays a lot to study history in detail.
What actually happened between the participants at the points where things changed, when the later patterns began.

Which is one reason I always liked Hugh Thomas. In this case I recommend "Rivers of Gold", and "Slave Trade", and "Conquest of Mexico" - I may be mis-stating the titles as I don't have these books before me. He does not put it as explicitly as above, but the fact is that in every "first contact", with rare exceptions, the European participants simply roll over the natives no matter how "high" their culture.

mockturtle said...

In other words, intellectuals of all sides are addicted to putting carts before horses. It's like the silly idea that education causes development and progress.

Amen, buwaya!!!

rcocean said...

I notice Geeson does the usual trick of lumping White and Old together. When it comes to Gayness, Black attitudes differ little from Whites. And middle-age people think the same as "old" people.

walter said...

Todd said...
Howard said...
Look at Todd showing off his new big boy pants.
2/14/20, 10:02 AM

So, you got nothing. Understandable and expected...
--
Agreed. I saw Howie's comment, followed up to yours and thought the same.

Nonapod said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Nonapod said...

Evolution is not conservative.

Not to be pedantic, but actually, technically speaking evolution could be categorized as a conservative process. It's a system of iterative optimization limited by energy, essentially using the least amount of energy for a positive outcome. Evolution isn't about finding the best possible solution to a given problem, it's about finding the solution that is adequate in terms of both functionality and energy. As such, in general big radical changes rarely work (although there may be exceptions), but mostly it's about cumulative small changes generation after generation.

JAORE said...

"Other than his sexual preferences what makes him stand out as a candidate?"

Well, among the current crop he has a calm demeanor and speaks without shouting and waving of arms. Also, like President Obama listening to him without concentrating gives many a warm feeling*. Couple that with all the "moderate" tongue baths the MSM gives him and voila - Pete the candidate.


Great orator Obama. Listen and he's good. Now READ what he said? WTF? Remember "Where's the beef?"

walter said...

J. Farmer said...“Moderate” is a relative term.
--
Especially when Berno and his gulag guys are out there promising to "transform".

Bob Boyd said...

Not so long ago, it was common for gay men to marry a women and live as heterosexuals, hiding the fact that they were gay because being gay would, among other things, destroy their career prospects, especially politicians.
I think it's an interesting thought experiment to wonder if we've come full circle.
Has being gay now become an advantage? A shortcut to the national stage?
Being black allowed Obama to become President, to leap over many other potential candidates, Democrfats who had been paying their party dues for much longer. If Obama had been white and all else was the same, would he have been given the nomination in 2008? Over Hillary Clinton?
I'm not saying Obama didn't bring anything else to the table. He had skills. I'm saying being black was suddenly an advantage where it had been a barrier before.

Why couldn't an ambitious, local, white, male politician conclude he could do the same thing with a gay identity?

walter said...

There are a lot of similarities between Obama and Pete in the sense of identitarian credits, limited prior record and parental Red flags.
He's "articulate and clean" but can't shift his delivery to woo African-American voters.
Is it high time?
He seemingly wants it.
But what of year(s) of the woman?

buwaya said...

Farmer,

I like you, and moreover I have an unusual, for me, sense of compassion about you. You are a very smart fellow and a properly brutal analyst.

The US probably needs more of your genes.

Why do you not consider creating a child of your own? That is the very real way of lighting a candle against the darkness. Indeed, it is exactly the sort of heroic selfless sacrifice that is required in this situation. I know, I know. I have known lots of gay people. But needs must, and what greater need is there?

Ken B said...

Did buwaya just tell Farmer to get fucked?

buwaya said...

I have given the US three candles against the gloom. I blame myself for having started late in life, out of - fear, really, to be honest.

At my age, with perspective, none of those fears mattered. We are each of us expendable, purposeless without the idea of sacrifice, bullets to be shot for a reason, not coddled in the magazine. Our personal comfort and contentment are not proper goals.

buwaya said...

Ken B, the opposite really.

And if you are a fertile man, gay or not, the same goes for you.

Robert Cook said...

"He’s a dirty smelly fucking communist just like the rest of em. Just sayin."

He is just like the rest of them, in that he is not a communist.

Robert Cook said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Robert Cook said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Le Stain du Poop said...

I really don't think I can vote for someone whose entire sex life revolves around poop and the poop shoot. Just doesn't seem right somehow.

DarkHelmet said...

1. Evolution is incredibly conservative. Most mutations are irrelevant -- minor reshuffling of junk DNA. Most mutations that are expressed into proteins are dangerous -- cancers. Very few expressed mutations are beneficial. Natural selection generally rewards those. That encapsulates the small 'c' conservative worldview. In short, there are many, many, many ways to screw up a well-functioning organism or ecosystem. There are very few innovations that are likely to make it better.

2. Red Diaper Pete is a socialist in the mold of Obama. Keep it on the down-low so as not to upset the old Democrat grandmothers who think you're so cute that they don't actually listen to what you believe.

3. That Red Diaper Pete is not a flamboyant gay could be his personal style, or it could be an attempt to maintain political viability. Whether it's one or the other is not particularly interesting to me, nor to most people, I would imagine, other than pathetic New Yorker writers with nothing better to worry about.

Howard said...

Francisco d what you say about us amateurs is certainly true however it is only true because nothing is more embarrassing than professional psychology.

Ken B said...

Buwaya
Merci. 😉

Howard said...

Dark helmet has forgotten The rapid evolutionary history of the Holocene. stay conservative all you want you're just going to end up as some liberals lunch down the road.

Rick said...


I don’t debate 9/11 truthers or young earth creationists either.

Yep, believing people seek laws for reasons other that their public statements is just like being a 911 truther. But this is the kind of nonsense Farmer will pretend to believe because he must be insulting even when it's stupid.

Robert Cook said...

"Abortion up to the day of birth??"

What American politician supports abortion up to the day of birth?

Francisco D said...

Evolution is not conservative.

I was about to argue the point, but Nonapod and DarkHelmet beat me to it ...

... and did a better job.

You don't have your thinking cap on today Howard. I know you can do better.

Robert Cook said...

"Red Diaper Pete is a socialist in the mold of Obama."

Hahahaha!

Which is to say, not at all.

Howard said...

I have to agree with Buwaya Puti. It's important to fulfill your evolutionary imperative by having children who will pay for my social security and Medicare. Also if you can get them to invent new technologies that will save the the planet, save lives, cure cancer end all the isms. It's your fucking duty to your fellow man to make the world a better place with highly functioning progeny.

BleachBit-and-Hammers said...

Cook:

“after the baby was born, the doctor will talk to the mother and make a decision about whether the baby lives.”

--Gov (blackface or white pointy hat- you pick) - Ralph Northam of Virginia. Blue heaven.

mockturtle said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
mockturtle said...

I've met plenty of gay Republicans who are, in fact, politically Conservative. Some are conservative in dress and manner and others flamboyant. Neither has a thing to do with their politics.

buwaya said...

Howard, it's not necessary to hope for a technological wizard. The world works through the effect of the mean of the distribution, not the tails. You can put a ton of geniuses in a society that doesn't work otherwise, and you will have nothing.

"I am myself, and my circumstances" - a bit of a paraphrase of Ortega y Gasett.

Howard said...

All roads lead to Rome, Buwaya Puti.

buwaya said...

All roads lead to Rome

They do, actually, and in every possible way. Think about it.

Robert Cook said...

“'Moderate' is a relative term. As the country moves more to the left so too will the definition of what constitutes a 'moderate.'”

Just as the more the Republican party has moved to the right, so too has the definition of what constitutes a "leftist," "socialist," and "dirty commie."

Rick said...

Just as the more the Republican party has moved to the right,

Some people just won't admit reality into their worldview.

Howard said...

Buwaya Puti: all roads lead to everywhere, think about it. Some roads aren't even roads, think about it. Everywhere and nowhere are the same place, think about it

DarkHelmet said...

Mr. Cook:

Nearly every Democrat politician in America supports abortion up to the moment of birth. Some are okay with retroactive abortion. You want evidence? How many Democrats on the national stage oppose partial birth abortion? None. If any did we'd have had a bill through Congress on it.

Yes, obviously Red Diaper Pete is a socialist like Obama. After a certain point you've made enough money, right? "You" have made enough. "I" get to have a ocean front mansion or two. Pete, son of Gramsci translator prof, is every bit the academic socialist that Obama was. You want him to carve "I Heart Marx" into his forearm before you believe? He probably would.

Why does Mayor Pete want a top tax rate of 49.9%? Because he doesn't want anyone to be able to say, "Hey, the government will be taking half my money under Pete's plan." There is no other reason anyone would ever select that figure for a tax bracket. Which means he'd love to take more if he thought he could get away with it.

J. Farmer said...

@Rick:

Yep, believing people seek laws for reasons other that their public statements is just like being a 911 truther.

I actually don’t care why some people seek certain laws. A law is not made better or worse based on the motives of those who support. It’s the substance of the law itself that matters.

Achilles said...

Howard said...
When J farmer says history is not on conservatives side, that is true. Evolution is not conservative.

Actually evolution is very conservative 99.9% of the time. Almost all genetic differences are punished severely.

It is a very rare instance where something different is rewarded.

This maps very well to how the river of history flows as well.

This is why buwaya and Farmer are wrong about the future of the United States.

Rick said...

A law is not made better or worse based on the motives of those who support. It’s the substance of the law itself that matters.

This is false for at least two reasons:

1. Laws are routinely enforced differently based on who administers them. So the motives of those administrators matter.

2. The motivations tell us something about what will come next.

We are not deciding whether to enact the GND and then stop, we are deciding whether to take yet another step down a path. Taking this step makes the next step more likely. This is fully understandable by the simple expedient of listening to leftists when they accomplish something. What is the refrain?

"This is a good first step".

Howard said...

Well Achilles would I'm sure we are all anxiously awaiting the great conservative enlightenment that is about to take over the world by storm and revolutionize humanity for the better. What better way to kick it off then with a carnival Barker clown.

J. Farmer said...

@buwaya:

I like you, and moreover I have an unusual, for me, sense of compassion about you. You are a very smart fellow and a properly brutal analyst.

The US probably needs more of your genes.

Why do you not consider creating a child of your own?


Thank you for the kind words. We’re working on it ;)

Achilles said...

It is normal in history for every culture to plod straight towards bureaucratic stagnation and death. This movement is powered by the desire of the majority of humans for stability and comfort and near term decision making.

Every government in history has attracted mediocre tyrants who lacking any skills themselves get stable protected jobs in government who ally with slightly less ambitious mediocrities in society and the aristocracy to create a stable cast system. The mediocre majority is given reign and eventually society falls to it's own apathy.

Our government is no different and the majority of citizens are no different. The .000001% of the aristocracy and the 5% of the Harvard grad mediocrities and the 50% of welfare queens all team up against the middle just like they have in every society in history.

But our Republic has radical explosions of productivity and wealth because we were founded on individual liberty and freedom.

We are a country dominated by the 1%. Not the .0000001%.

The constitution has numerous backstops to keep it that way. A Republican Representation system. The electoral college. And the final backstop is the Bill of Rights.

And it isn't the words on paper or the courts that are the final backstop. It is the citizen and his belief in those words.

The leftists are going to lose in 2020 or in 2021. They should hope it is 2020.

J. Farmer said...

@Rick:

Is there a motivation for the Green New Deal that would cause you to support of it? I can’t think of one. I’m opposed regardless of what the people who support it are motivated by. I don’t care what motivates people to support a bad law. I just care that it’s a bad law.

DarkHelmet said...

Howard said...
Dark helmet has forgotten The rapid evolutionary history of the Holocene. stay conservative all you want you're just going to end up as some liberals lunch down the road.

Tell me about all the new species of the Holocene.

As for humans, we are genetically indistinguishable from those of 12,000 years ago. Any human alive now could mate with a human of 12,000 YBP and produce fertile offspring. In fact, any human alive now could produce fertile young with our ancestors from 600,000 YBP. We know this because Neanderthals split off from modern human forebears roughly 600,000 -800,000 years ago, and Neaderthals and modern humans were interbreeding as recently as about 35,000 years ago; possibly more recently.

Rick said...

The fact that this is a objectively a bad law does not change what I wrote. The point is that when they come back with a law excised of the obvious tells we should still understand it as an effort to control our lives rather than an effort to combat climate change.

Rick said...

More importantly we should recognize what the people behind it are after and vote tehm out of office or fire them from the bureaucracy.

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