"I’m angry and I own it. I’m angry on behalf of everyone who is hurt by Trump’s government, our rigged economy, and business as usual."
Wrote Elizabeth Warren in an email reacting to Joe Biden, who's written that she has an "angry, unyielding viewpoint."
Quoted in "Klobuchar and Warren are shattering the expectations of female candidates" (WaPo), a column by Karen Tumulty, which I read mainly to try to understand what expectations still existed that hadn't been shattered by Hillary Clinton.
The name Hillary Clinton does not appear in that column! Does the columnist have an "expectation" that females disappear when they are unwanted?
Okay, here's the answer, according to Tumulty. Supposedly female candidates proceed in "a cautious manner" and stick to "a narrow lane of acceptability" where they are "tough but likeable, strong but not pushy" and "[n]ever, ever angry."
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209 comments:
1 – 200 of 209 Newer› Newest»Nag. Nag. Nag.
Being angry all the time makes women unattractive to other women. That's where the problem for women candidates lies.
Gabbard did fine but was not angry enough for the lefties.
Don't be angry on my behalf.
Jesus, she's never lived with a woman. Probably doesn't live with a man either.
She doesn't have any problem solving skills except "Men suck".
The more I read of Elizabeth Warren, the more I think she's nothing but an overboiling pot of slogans and self-righteousness and misdirected anger. Ignorance and rage are an unhealthy combination, likely to lead to ruin.
It would be different for there to be a female Happy Warrior.
Where the hell is Warren taking advice from, 1950?
You know who rarely shows anger? The same person who also shows the most humor and optimistic outlook, and that is winning biggly.
Who's telling them that women are not allowed to be angry?
You know who rarely shows anger? The same person who also shows the most humor and optimistic outlook, and that is winning biggly.
You misspelled YUGE.
The Dem debates are an exhibition of pure uninterrupted anger, joyless and intolerant, devoid of any promise of a united strong America .
Why is she not 50 points ahead?
Be hector, don't hector.
"Over and over, we are told that women are not allowed to be angry. It makes us unattractive to powerful men who want us to be quiet."
Who actually says that, let alone "over and over"?
"I’m"I’m angry on behalf of everyone who is hurt by Trump’s government, our rigged economy, and business as usual."
Honest question, apart from progs who get their feelings hurt and Soleimani, who is actually "hurt by Trump's government"?
Fuck a duck, the NeverTrump chorus is CONSTANTLY harping on how angry and insane the President sounds, even when he's calm as a still sea! If anything, I'd be super pumped if he did deliver a Cromwell-style rant just before the Blackwater guards stormed Congress with rifles at the ready. The eternal refrain that we must tolerate women's anger, no matter how inappropriate it is, is going to lead to a Trump landslide.
How about this? We don’t like your insane policy ideas e.g. Green New Deal?
Or nobody likes a negative person regardless of gender?
And Hillary is going to be the nominee and Pete will be her VP. Will still lose about 40 states.
Freedom seems to make the left angry.
I'd comment but don't want to be accused of mansplaining.
Being angry is not admirable in woman or man.
The culture has ruled decisively for Spock over McCoy.
(BTW, Democrats are passionate, Republicans are angry.)
Being angry is not admirable in woman or man.
The culture has ruled decisively for Spock over McCoy.
(BTW, Democrats are passionate, Republicans are angry.)
Consider this the first chapter in Warren's forthcoming book explaining What Happened. Pre-order it at Althouse's Amazon gateway.
An awful lot of democrats seem to believe that all women grow up in WASPY cloistered households where their normal human reactions are repressed so that they fit into a Ward & June Cleaver fantasy. I wonder why that is?
I am angry too. I am angry that you pretended to be an Indian to get a position at my alma mater for which you were and are manifestly unqualified. Very angry. People like you and Kenyaboy and David Hogg etc. have virtually abolished the value of my hugely expensive degree.
If the expectations were for women (at least in aggregate) to be able to accumulate more than 10% of the delegates at the Democratic convention, then both are shattering expectations.
"Over and over, we are told that women are not allowed to be angry."
No "we" are not. We are told the same silly lie Fauxcahontas just parroted.
Which reminds me:
What do you call it when Joe Biden talks with his tongue on a fork?
do they ever come within a parsec of the truth?
https://twitter.com/Shem_Infinite/status/1231599879002173445
White man speak with tongued fork.
Six months ago, a box of 50 9mm was around $12. Today, it's less than $9.
A S&W rifle 5.56 rifle was close to $1000. Today, they sell for about $700.
I've watched ammo, and weapon prices for about 15 years. They seem to understand the world better than Paul Krugman. I do not understand why ammo, and weapons are so cheap.
Did I mention.........I'm buying!!
arrrrggggghhh.....It's a Smith & Wesson, but it's only a rifle once!!!
Gabbard did fine but was not angry enough for the lefties.
Yes. Despite being a lefty, she was the Democrat feminist anti-thesis:
attractive, comfortable with herself, well spoken and appropriately assertive.
I forgot sane?
It seems to me that Warren ought to dial back the anger if she wants that VP slot. Bernie is angry enough, you need someone a little mellower to balance the ticket.
In the greatest time in human history and in the greatest place in human history we are being yelled at by Democrats who want us to believe we live in a racist hellhole with people dying in the gutters. Bizarre.
Being angry seems to be a lot like being fat. We're told over and over that women are totally pressured by "society" to never be angry, just like they're horribly oppressed by "society" into being anorexically thin.
But a quick look around indicates that "society" really needs to up its oppressive shame game. The one it's running now obviously isn't working.
Don't go away mad, Liz, just go away.
A nice timely article there, Ms. Tumulty. In time to see Amy and Warren exit the race with no top two finishes.
Yes, the TERRIBLE economy, now much improved since the Obama days...
It'd be easier if a leftist could point to a time when they aren't angry.
Over and over we are told that over and over we are told that women are not allowed to be angry.
You have a right to be angry. People have a right to vote for a candidate they like. It won't be you.
Loser. Democrats portray Trump as angry for a reason, yet Warren self identifies. She could learn something from Thatcher.
They seem to understand
....and they don't care about their fucking pronouns!!!
Six months ago, a box of 50 9mm was around $12. Today, it's less than $9.
Wow what happened? I haven't looked at ammo in years and just hoard what I have.
Anyway, Anger is one of the Seven Deadly Sins. For a reason. It makes you look out of control, intemperate. It doesn't look good on Bernie, either. But he gets a pass for being old - and consistent!
Be cool, like Obama. Yeah he was good at that.
I would have been glad to pay for a good dressing down from Maggie.
bgates said... Over and over, etc.
Exactly, and like Sebastian said also several comments above. Who are these people who keep telling women that? Fake tellers!
I'm not a fan of people that behave with anger, neither men nor women. A person that can't control their emotions in conversation, when campaigning, negotiating, whatever, is a person that is irrational, making poor choices and decisions. Can't trust them.
Michael said...
"In the greatest time in human history and in the greatest place in human history we are being yelled at by Democrats who want us to believe we live in a racist hellhole with people dying in the gutters. Bizarre."
Love that, Michael.
The better Trump does, the more angry they become.
Wait until they see how that Angry demeanor works out for Bernie.
Ann Richards would have been elected in this era. Nikki Haley might be elected.
Find a female governor. They have a good tone.
Donald Trump is not Angry. Maybe figure it out.
I’m angry on behalf of everyone who is hurt by Trump’s government, our rigged economy, and business as usual."
I think she's right about the middle one. That's part of Sanders' appeal too. Probably should substitute "markets" for "economy."
The Federal Reserve rigging the markets in favor of their status-quo bankers has left a lot of people disgusted. All through Obama's terms, Wall Street was getting rich and Main Street was getting nothing, plenty of nothing. Trump's spirit and deregulatory philosophy and actions opened the economy up much more broadly; but that sense that so much has been built on top of a rigged deck has never really disappeared, IMO.
That's why intelligent college graduates who know better are still willing to make a colossal mistake and vote for Sanders' disruption of that rigged game. Failing him, for dishonest and annoying Mrs. Warren. Two hectoring, obnoxious scolds of the first water. But they have one nugget to show for their endeavors. The anger part is not the real issue to me, that's just part of her unpleasant personality that she has to explain away her typically dishonest fashion.
The better Trump does, the more angry they become.
Sorry, I meant America.
To limit this to Trump is to disguise the source of the underlying hatred.
tcrosse said...
Consider this the first chapter in Warren's forthcoming book explaining What Happened. Pre-order it at Althouse's Amazon gateway.
I believe the title is "How! It Happened."
And good thing Liz got angry and set Biden straight in an email that her anger is justified. That's the leader we are looking for. Now keep saying it over and over. You know -- be persistent.
I think she's right about the middle one.
Those who wish to deal with our rigged economy can't deal with their own rigged nominating process.
Yeah, that was exactly Margaret Thatcher's road to power four decades ago, being agreeable and quiet, right? Worried about likability and never being pushy?
The problem progressive women have is that progressivism is all about contempt for the common people, who in the liberal view are children who cannot fend for themselves and don't know what's good for them. Thus, when a progressive woman speaks on policy, everyone is reminded of female teachers giving them lectures in elementary school, and bridles at being treated like a child. The cure, of course, is for woman candidates to speak to voters like they're adults, but that requires non-progressive policy content.
As an alternative, one could seek to reform society such that 50% of elementary school teachers are male, and thus cause voters to bridle equally at male progressive politicians, moving the entire country further right.
"Over and over, we are told that women are not allowed to be angry."
Whereas the reality is just the opposite: women can be angry, even threatening or actually violent, with few consequences for behaviors that would get a man taken to jail.
And perhaps that's not so unreasonable, as men's greater strength causes an angry man to be perceived as a greater threat to others than a similary angry woman would be.
But, it's just upside-down to pretend it's as Warren says it is.
Kai Akker, thanks for that explanation of the rigged economy. I was puzzling over that term.
My own suspicion is that she favors a rigged economy, too. But one that favors a different group of citizens and non- citizens.
Sarah Palin was a happy warrior. Thatcher, Nikki Haley.
They hate female happy warriors more than they hate male happy warriors. And they hate male happy warriors a lot.
What about all those old movies where the hero tells the heroine, "You're so cute when you're angry!"?
And Sanders' anger is equally tiresome, to me, so could it be that the anger part is wrongly being analyzed in the writer's "gender" lens? When it's not related to gender at all, but rather to the outties' legitimate complaint about the innies that gives rise to the anger in the first place. Trump therefore is seen by lefties through the rich-white-guy corporate stereotype as just another huge beneficiary of the rigged "economy," rather than the healthy disruptor his supporters see in him.
There's a lot of confusion at work in the electorate! But this nation has always sorted it out right, eventually. The Fed needs massive reform if not abolishment. That is the key to the establishment that both right and left dislike.
Speaking just for myself, my expectations regarding these female Democrats continue to get lower and lower.
Warren is a shrew and a harpy and is going down. That's what she's angry about. Doesn't mean I have to care.
What about all those old movies where the hero tells the heroine, "You're so cute when you're angry!"?
Maureen O'Hara certainly was.
Tsk, tsk. Biden mansplained.
If you are spending time talking about how you being angry affects my opinion of you.... you are losing.
Feminist bullsh*t. Quotes or videos of people telling women not to be angry, or STFU.
Q. what expectations still existed that hadn't been shattered by Hillary Clinton.
A. Winning
tough but likeable..... likeable enough?
Warren reminds me of an unpleasant schoolteacher or a bossy woman at church. I'm a woman and bossy women scare the crap out of me. I avoid them when at all possible. Women trying to be assertive [and not understanding how] look and sound ridiculous. Women who are genuinely assertive don't need to shriek and wave their arms around to make a point. Does anyone remember Congresswoman Barbara Jordan? She had a commanding presence without ever losing her composure. As did Margaret Thatcher.
I am reminded of the collision of the USS Fitzgerald cost 7 sailors their lives. The female Officer of the Deck was supposedly not talking to the female officer in charge of the CIC. They were supposedly mad at each other. There have been thoughts that either or both were having their periods at the time. Regardless of cause, one thing than men can do better, on average, is comparmentalize, and that means, that they are usually able to put their anger aside, and cooperate, if it is important, as it was the day of the collision. Males have an off switch for their anger and aggression. Women tend not to. Part of that is self preservation, on the part of males. Most women don’t have this off switch. And that, I think, is why we don’t want a woman who is easy to anger with our nuclear codes or in control of our military. They are statistically more likely to let their anger color their decision making than the average man, and that can have devastating and deadly consequences when they have the power to order such.
So, we look more carefully at the justification for a woman’s anger when judging her fitness for high office. No one really cares if a female Senator or Representative gets angry - the stakes are low. They can’t do much damage. But it is a critical issue when the consequences could be nuclear war. Women like Margaret Thatcher had enough control that she rarely showed anger in public. Fauxhantus Warren has failed that test. We don’t know that she won’t act emotionally, when, for the sake of the country, she must react logically.
We have seen, over the last four years Trump getting angry. But every time, eventually, he has made the rational, logical, decision. And even Bernie Sanders can maybe be given the benefit of the doubt, due to his gender, and past history. And even Amy K, still gets the benefit of the doubt with me, because she has shown a much more even temperament than Warren has, who has shown that she cannot control her anger.
“Over and over, we are told that women are not allowed to be angry,” Warren wrote. “It makes us unattractive to powerful men who want us to be quiet.”
Has Senator Warren ever watched any of those shows that follow the "Real Housewives of Wherever" formula?
'Cause, those shows seem to aimed at female audiences & yet the participants in those shows never appear to have problems with repressed anger. It's just right out there, screaming, crying, & tossing plates with the best of 'em.
You know I'm mad like Al Capone (I'm burnin' up)
I said I'm mad (I'm burnin' up)
Like Sonny Liston yeah (I'm burnin' up)
You know baby I'm mad (I'm burnin' up)
Like Cassius Clay (I'm burnin' up)
You know I'm mad (I'm burnin' up) you know I'm mad
Yeah baby, alright baby (I'm burnin' up)
I'm mad, come on (I'm burnin' up)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpAlAoXssOA&feature=emb_logo
What about all those old movies where the hero tells the heroine, "You're so cute when you're angry!"?
Same ones where she says NO ten times and tries to resist but then melts in his arms after first kiss and they (off camera) have wild passionate sex all day and night?
Those old movies?
I get angry. I don’t boast about it, I don’t admire myself for it, I don’t stoke it.
We don’t know that she won’t act emotionally, when, for the sake of the country, she must react logically.
In last debate,Amy was quivering because of some gentle teasing by Peter.
Frankly,in my opinion, our own MEG coulda made Pete cry, while speaking softly.
Amy K, still gets the benefit of the doubt with me, because she has shown a much more even temperament than Warren has, who has shown that she cannot control her anger.
Warren is faking it, for votes. Amy can be triggered. If she was in charge, IRS and others would be investigating mayor Pete
Kai Akker: Trump's spirit and deregulatory philosophy and actions opened the economy up much more broadly; but that sense that so much has been built on top of a rigged deck has never really disappeared, IMO.
That's why intelligent college graduates who know better are still willing to make a colossal mistake and vote for Sanders' disruption of that rigged game.
I agree, Kai. I think Trump supporters and conservatives in general are very foolish to ignore or dismiss this. It doesn't matter how wrong or naïve they are: they are correct in the basic sense that a rigged game is still being played, and that the system is unstable, notwithstanding current good economic conditions. If the economy keeps ticking along in the coming months, the appeal of "hang the banksters" will be limited. But come a hard recession or (God forbid) a crash, all bets are off.
Uh-oh, Senator Paleface is angry! Quick, let's offer her a peace pipe so we can bury the hatchet....
Lizzie is aggressive and Always attacking the foe. That’s mislabeled angry. Think of it as a Confederate Yell.
Women at war. They must unlearn mercy and compassion. Then they can do that job. Tulsi Gabard and Martha McSally learned.How.
If you're asking people to let you control the chicken switch of the Apocalypse, most may not like someone who gets angry over relatively minor issues.
what ifs: 1.the democratic nomination vote looks close, so in the feverish hothouse environment of a potential brokered convention the delegates of iowa and nevada are challenged bc there was no official count or the results simply aren't trusted.
2. if american cities are quarantined - the british health service announced today 50% of the population could be infected eventually https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/hospitals-prepare-for-coronavirus-epidemic-to-sweep-britain-5hsnvw9s3 - how do you conduct a brokered convention? a consensus choice could be phoned in.
3. and how do you conduct an election? phone app voting results would be challenged by the loser even if there was a large majority vote.
three implausible scenarios - in normal times. we seem to be riding the tiger.
The problem progressive women have is that progressivism is all about contempt for the common people, who in the liberal view are children who cannot fend for themselves and don't know what's good for them.
THIS!!!
How else will they learn? #MansplainingIn5Words
"Over and over, we are told that women are not allowed to be angry. It makes us unattractive to powerful men who want us to be quiet."
It certainly made Ashley Judd — a Hollywood movie star! — look ugly and unattractive when she did her “Nasty Woman” diatribe on Inauguration Day. And by that I mean not just powerful men, but everyone.
The terms shrew and hag have been with us for centuries, enough said.
I think why an angry women is a bad look is physical in nature. They are physically smaller than men and if a man sees a women angry he shrugs it off, knowing that anger is not going to cause him any bodily harm especially to big men.
Funny example - my mother use to run after me with a hot spoon to hit me but one day, I think i was 13 and bigger than her , I just stopped and held her arm: she never came after me with that spoon again.
And when women are constantly angry they are a caricature in men's eyes.
And even Amy K, still gets the benefit of the doubt with me, because she has shown a much more even temperament than Warren has, who has shown that she cannot control her anger.
There are rumors, strong and multiply sourced rumors, that Amy Klobuchar is among the very worst bosses on Capitol Hill, with a penchant for flying into shrieking, abusive, foot stomping, purple faced rages when her underlings incur her displeasure.
Things seem kind of okay to me, except for some people who are making themselves crazy. So yeah, being angry right now is not going to appeal to me. It makes me think you're one of the crazies who want to blow everything up just when things are getting better.
Well, I know one pol who's not angry - VP Joe Biden. Did you see him on Face the Nation this morning? The man barely had a pulse. Meek and confused. I felt sorry for the man. Politically, he's done, and it's hard to see where his grifter family can get anymore opportunities for graft.
”I’m angry on behalf of everyone who is hurt by Trump’s government, our rigged economy, and business as usual."
She emotes on behalf of the grifters, the lazy, and the no-talents. But thanks to Trump we are moving away “business as usual” at a pretty good clip. Thank heavens!
Our foresome discussed this. Grumpy old men are cute. The stuff of movies. Grumpy old women are not cute. Not the stuff of movies.
"tough but likeable, strong but not pushy" and "[n]ever, ever angry."
That's pretty solid advice for male candidates, too. Only a handful have/had the ability to pull off public anger effectively, e.g. Ronald Reagan's "I am paying for this microphone" moment.
Big Mike
Yep. Hard to believe a woman who looks like Ashley Judd talking about getting nasty could be unattractive, but she pulled it off.
Is Bernie's constant anger offputting? It is for me. I think it is for Althouse. It’s not just angry women who are off putting.
I don't remember ever being told by my parents that women are not allowed to get angry.
I was told that if I acted like a screechy brat and stomped around and yelled, adults would not take me seriously or respect me. My brothers were told the same thing.
Hillary Clinton shattered the glass ceiling on angry women in politics. In fact she passed through the barrier at supersonic speed with a generous side helping of "nasty".
Anger is not a bad thing, if you can keep it under control. Michael Dobbs, author of the House of Cards novels was a speech writer for, and ultimate chief of staff for Margaret Thatcher. Dame Thatcher was sometimes difficult to work for; she would lash out or settle scores with vigor. In fact British politicos and her staff had a name for her technique in that regard. They called it 'handbagging" as in beating some poor sod almost to political death with her purse. Dobbs started writing the House of Cards novels on a legislative break after getting a handbagging from Dame Thatcher.
So don't pull my leg and tell me angry women can't get anywhere in politics. But you have to do it with style--and with some substance. Crazy Maxine Waters, the new representative from Detroit "We're going to impeach the Moth-rF=cker" don't count. That's just anger. They are as airheaded as AOC. That's kid stuff compared to the Lady Arkansas Traveler who knew how to at least try to put the shiv in somebody for real. Cankles cackled "We came, We saw, He died". Not that ol Moammar Qaddafi didn't have something coming, but that cackle by Cankles was unseemly.
“ Funny example - my mother use to run after me with a hot spoon to hit me but one day, I think i was 13 and bigger than her , I just stopped and held her arm: she never came after me with that spoon again.”
Similar story, but a couple years later. I was maybe 5’10”, 150 lbs at the time, and she was maybe 5’1” 110 lbs. And I found myself being beaten by her fists, standing in the kitchen. I just stood there quietly. Wanted to laugh, but didn’t. Last time she tried it with me, instead switching to telling me to just wait until my father got home. That wasn’t overly effective because I knew by then that her anger would have faded by then, as it always did (thank goodness she wasn’t like my ex wife who could retain her anger for weeks, if not months). On the flip side, my father could put me to flight, despite ultimately being bigger than he, until I was well into my 20s, just by starting to turn red. Nothing needed to be said.
Point and laugh.
Coincidrnce im sure
https://www.politico.com/amp/news/magazine/2020/02/23/the-lost-constitutional-tool-to-protect-voting-rights-116612
Is Warren angry? She's more hectoring. But the real problem is with her plans for everything. I don't believe that top down planning and unaccountable bureaucracies are a good idea. In fact, they are usually pretty disastrous.
Tactically trading the power of tears and guilt for hurting a woman’s feelings for the show off of being angry like men do it is a dumb move.
Warren continues to confuse bossy with leadership.
In America, we get to elect our “boss.” No one wants to be yelled at for 4 years, not even democrats.
Angle-Dyne, Samurai Buzzard said...
"It doesn't matter how wrong or naïve they are: they are correct in the basic sense that a rigged game is still being played, and that the system is unstable, notwithstanding current good economic conditions. If the economy keeps ticking along in the coming months, the appeal of "hang the banksters" will be limited. But come a hard recession or (God forbid) a crash, all bets are off.
***********************
I'll bite: tell me how banks and bankers rig "the game" by having a lot of money. Do they sit on it, like Scrooge McDuck in his vault full of gold? Would/should young college graduates be given that money instead? How does cheap money---a sign that bankers are making lots of loans---lead to financial instabiity?
Granted, our national debt is horrendous, and some fine day we will be faced with a crisis. But as others have noted, this is the wealthiest, healthiest, and most peaceful time in the history of the world. Those young college graduates obviously don't know shit about that history.
Is it time to just admit that the grand experiment has failed, and that women should not be allowed to vote let alone to run for office? Tell me, just how has letting the fair (insane) sex vote improved our civilization?
Why don’t we just admit that this is just another example of men and women are different. Women simply, in a vast majority of cases, do not wear anger well, looks unbecoming and strident. Men don’t look any better but we know men and we grew up on seeing men angry so it’s no shock. Finally, think of an angry random man or woman’s voice, would you expect it to rise or fall in pitch/timbre as they became angrier? All that being said I’m sure that based on my bias that I didn’t have a problem with an angry Thatcher, for example.
SPeaking of double standards: Why is it that when an actress has sex with a man in a position to help her career, with the expectation that the sex will lead to career advancement, it is horrible and the man is taking advantage of the woman; but when a reporter has a sex with a man in a position to help her career, with the expectation that the sex will lead to career advancement, it is not horrible, in fact the woman is a courageous modern career woman willing to do whatever it takes to get a story?
Angry women is the whole modern affectation. There's no need to cut the duck at the joints, just push through anywhere.
Shirley MacLaine in Steel Magnolias.
Ouiser Boudreaux : I'm not crazy, I've just been in a very bad mood 40 years!
Is there a presumption the rage will abate? Lefties just switch targets. It is what they do. There's always the next something. Pretty fucked but there it is.
Keeping Faith may someday be a camp classic series, a woman betrayed and hounded everywhere she turns, bearing up and breaking down repeatedly. The plot is a little slow for guys. Compare any war movie.
I’m okay admitting that either culture or human nature has me responding very poorly to Elizabeth Warren’s tone. It certainly doesn’t leave me willing to support her silly and destructive policy preferences.
Hillary... going away? Put down that pipe!
Anger is fine, as long as it is controlled and limited. Anyone who seems angry all the time quickly becomes boring, a one-note Sally.
What Warren wants, is to use her gender to make it off-limits to criticize her for being angry all the time. It won't work. It never does. But it does show us her manipulative nature.
"In the greatest time in human history and in the greatest place in human history we are being yelled at by Democrats who want us to believe we live in a racist hellhole with people dying in the gutters."
There's some truth to that -- people are dying in the gutters in Democrat-controlled hellholes, aren't they?
"Over and over, we are told..."
Needs more cowbell.
maybe she's irascible
Powerful men
Auctoritas, imperium, officium or potentas? Or just some guy who can do without an angry woman.
Two things:
1-As others stated: Thatcher might disagree with you, Senator. Except she’s dead. And this Lie you are saying wasn’t true forty years ago. What someone has to say - preferably in a televised debate - is that “It’s not the fact that you are a woman that I find a problem, it’s the fact that you are you. Stop blaming your lack of appeal being based on gender. You are, simply, an unappealing individual. It’s not just your “displays” of anger. It’s the whole you.”
2-Although it was very long ago, I read some book on the point of displaying anger. It’s been somewhat referenced upthread - the idea that behind displays of anger is potential violence, and the need to be able to switch it off when necessary, -or- and it is a big -or- ...be prepared to follow your anger on through. If not, what’s the point of anger? Since we came down onto the savannah from the trees, it’s a signal that you are on your way. So if you want to get angry, man or woman, you better not be pretending. And quite likely if you are just using anger - man or woman - as a tactic to try to silence others, and you aren’t really, well, I imagine people don’t respect that.
Title IX made women athletes, and against their natural compassionate tendencies they compete. Trans inclusivity will trigger that innate compassion in women, who will apparently gladly recede from the competitive arena. Did the 19th amendment similarly set us on a course when feminine compassion is in conflict with the ethos of the political arena? Do women really, I mean deep down inside, want to compete here (Tracy Flicks of the world notwithstanding, since she’s a post 19th amendment creature if ever there was one)?
For a time, and for my most grievous sins, I was married to a woman who expressed her anger as The Silent Treatment. Maybe Warren should try that.
Women would be even more manipulative with a prehensile tail. It could be used as body language as well. I suppose people would be fiddling with it in idle moments though, and it would be taken as rude on the whole. Just as well they don't have one.
Tail etiquette books would come out, and Cosmopolitan would have a series.
Nothing wrong with being angry, when you have an actual, logical,reason to be angry....and if you have a plan to resolve the problem that is making you have anger.
Being angry at everything, whinging, yelling, complaining, throwing tantrums with no aim other than to have drama, just makes you look crazy. It makes you and unpleasant person to be around. People who are constantly angry are mentally ill and should be avoided.
Best political line of the year comes from Sean Davis of The Federalist:
"Mike Bloomberg paid half a billion dollars to get scalped by a fake Indian."
Bella Abzug and Andrea Dworkin weren't angry?
she has an "angry, unyielding viewpoint.
Nevertheless, she persisted.
Warren is pretending in order to get votes. Bernie became angry at a young age because he could not have what others had because he was not willing to work hard enough or consistent enough to get it, had neither the smarts nor the ambition.
Kept the anger even after he got the govt job full of benefits , decent pay and easy work. Still not enough intelligence or ambition to get very rich or competent. So, he stayed angry because life ain't fair.
Women: rhhardin's favorite topic even though he knows nothing about it.
wholelottasplainin: "Would/should young college graduates be given that money instead? How does cheap money---a sign that bankers are making lots of loans---lead to financial instabiity?
Granted, our national debt is horrendous, and some fine day we will be faced with a crisis. But as others have noted, this is the wealthiest, healthiest, and most peaceful time in the history of the world. Those young college graduates obviously don't know shit about that history.
"Would/should young college graduates be given that money instead?" Lol, where the hell did that come from? I'm mystified as to why you think I'm arguing that "those young college graduates" are real smart in plumping to vote in a Sanders or a Warren. I *agreed* with the original poster who pointed out that they would be making "a colossal mistake" in doing so.
That aside, the risk and "rig" of cheap money policy is not all about bankers just making lots of loans with their own money. But I'm sure you know that. Just like I'm sure you understand perfectly well how "making lots of loans" under certain conditions can lead to financial instability, feigned ignorance notwithstanding.
I don't have a problem with angry women, but it's a tough sell in this economy and work environment.
The problem with Warren is she personalizes everything. Sorry, we don't care. Women need to learn we want our leaders to be strong and think about US, not themselves. We're not interested in electing victims. Joe took a shot at you Liz, just like any political rival would. And your response is "wah, wah, don't attack me. I'm a women".
Pathetic. Why would I want someone like that going up against Putin?
The only reason Liz and Amy are in the race is because they wear a skirt - in public. (who knows what Mayor Pete wears around the house). Both of them are complete mediocrities, but the D's need women candidates.
Both are inferior to Palin, who had charisma and strength.
Women aren't used to power outside the family and lots of them think there aren't any rules about how to have and to use power when children aren't around, or none that apply to them. That makes their anger dangerous. They think they are showing sincerity by shouting but actually they are threatening others. (Or of course, women can look silly and futile if they have no power or they can cause others to become determined that this unbalanced person will never have power over themselves.)
Dems belittle Warren and somehow it's Trump's fault.
Hillary, whether you like her or not, projected strength. It was her ONE good characteristic.
@Angle-Dyne, Samurai Buzzard said...
************
Nothing about HOW and WHY young people think the economy is a rigged game, which is what i asked about?
And yes, making lots of loans "can be" a source of financial instability(we saw that with Faany Mae, but that nothing to do with the rigging of an economy by banksters.
indeed, and she was driven out of public life, whereas you can't avoid these mediocreties, even if you try,
Hillary, whether you like her or not, projected strength.
What the hell are you talking about???
Who is it that is doing all this telling (Democrat) women not to be angry?
Feminists misleading women is a progressive condition that can be traced to women's suffrage, and other political myths, in a Republic with a Constitution that does not tolerate diversity, including discrimination by sex. #HateLovesAbortion
Who is it that is doing all this telling (Democrat) women not to be angry?
It's not a conservative principle. It's either liberal (i.e. divergent), or progressive (i.e. monotonic), under the established Pro-Choice, selective, opportunistic, politically congruent cult founded on a principle of avoiding reconciliation.
rcocean said...
Pathetic. Why would I want someone like that going up against Putin?
You wouldn't and neither would I. But Putin sure would. That's why I say if he did try to fix the 2016 election it was to get a win for Hilary!, because she's just as bad as Warren.
Rcocean observes: We're not interested in electing victims..
That's it in a nutshell.
If women got to be angry, they got to be angry. No hair off my chest. I don't listen to angry people anyway.
Maybe Freud was right about penis envy. Most girls outgrow it; the rest run for President.
Nothing says strength like collapsing and being tossed into a handicapped van.
#I'mWithHer
Hillary, whether you like her or not, projected strength. It was her ONE good characteristic.
I would not call her demeanor or her actions "strong.
She is a whiny weasel who hid behind her husband and had the press covering her back for a multitude of lies, blatant deceptions and illegal activities.
She weaponized law enforcement with her FBI files. When Bill Jeff was impeached, guess who got nailed for adultery - all Republicans and likely all from the FBI files.
Hillary, whether you like her or not, projected strength. It was her ONE good characteristic.
She is a bully. And, when she got her ass beat, she started crying and has not stopped since.
they can cause others to become determined that this unbalanced person will never have power over themselves.)
My experience is pretty limited to medical care but I know that female nurses much prefer (in my experience of 30-40 years) to work with male nurse supervisors. Too many cliques and favoritism.
I learned this early. The OR supervisor at LA County hospital was a lesbian and lesbian nurses got day shifts.
$400k for teaching 1 class AND she lied to get it.
She rigged it in her favor.
Whine whine nasty piece of entitled work,
—Being angry at everything, whinging, yelling, complaining, throwing tantrums with no aim other than to have drama, just makes you look crazy. It makes you and unpleasant person to be around. People who are constantly angry are mentally ill and should be avoided.—-
It makes one look...hysterical.
Bwaaaaaa
wholelottasplainin' said...
Nothing about HOW and WHY young people think the economy is a rigged game, which is what i asked about?
And yes, making lots of loans "can be" a source of financial instability(we saw that with Faany Mae, but that nothing to do with the rigging of an economy by banksters.
2/23/20, 5:34 PM
I don't know how much more data you need, but tens of millions of American youth have been told to take out loans that beggar them in exchange for the credentials they "require" for employment. Many pay them off, certainly, but many don't. That's the rig most of them complain about, take it or leave it. Debates about the wisdom of the current post-secondary structure, or the frugality of millenials, are not relevant: if the Sanders Administration does start executing bankers in Central Park, there will be millions regretting that they couldn't do it themselves.
mockture, there may be things rhhardin doesn’t understand about women, but there are things he understands and articulates better than I’ve seen anywhere else, and I read widely. About men too. I also appreciate your commentary a great deal but cringe a little when people take offense and miss nuance and insight.
"I think all right-thinking people in this country are sick and tired of being told that ordinary, decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I'm certainly not, and I'm sick and tired of being told that I am."
Mockturtle
Hardin knows better. He wants to provoke and pose. Read “women” as “people ruled emotions, a class comprising many women and fewer men”
It’s not just “powerful men” who don’t like angry women. But if Warren wants to know how to be a woman and make your points in a way that men respect, she should watch some old YouTubes of Maggie Thatcher, who could explain her policies in clear language because she understood them thoroughly. If you can’t explain your ideas to people in simple terms, at least in rough outline, in a way that conveys not just its reasoning, but it’s overall ramifications, then you don’t really understand them.
Saying “I have plans for that!” is the same kind of hand waving that led to the fall of communism in so many places.
I pity the fool who thinks that surrendering to a woman’s every whim is the way to get laid. You make room for a woman in your life, you don’t make that room by destroying your self though. “I gave her my heart, but she wanted my soul” was Bob Dylan’s lament, but he dumped her for it, and rightly so.
in the uk, the so called civil servants are attacking priti patel, because reasons,
Margaret Thatcher was never angry. She was assertive, courageous for all of Britain, and full of common sense. Thatcher never saw herself as a victim. She saw herself as being right and went on from there. She wanted for British citizens what they wanted for themselves--autonomy, opportunity, and a chance to get ahead in life without being directed from above.
I don't know how that would play over here, but American female politicians on the Demmie side love to see themselves as victims of the system fighting the odds in a "fixed" contest.
My wife is so cute when she’s mad. I told her that once and she got really mad.
Those who can, do. Those who can't, whine. [Apologies to Shaw]
Unknown said...
Why don’t we just admit that this is just another example of men and women are different. Women simply, in a vast majority of cases, do not wear anger well, looks unbecoming and strident. Men don’t look any better but we know men and we grew up on seeing men angry so it’s no shock. Finally, think of an angry random man or woman’s voice, would you expect it to rise or fall in pitch/timbre as they became angrier? All that being said I’m sure that based on my bias that I didn’t have a problem with an angry Thatcher, for example.
2/23/20, 3:52 PM
Well, the womans vote has given us the unspeakable horror of socialism, where children die from malnutrition and lack of medical care.
Amadeus 48@ 6:55
Some might even call Warren's anger savage.
”The more I read of Elizabeth Warren, the more I think she's nothing but an overboiling pot of slogans and self-righteousness and misdirected anger”
Holy s**t. Liz is that marketing manager my company hired along about 1998.
Daskol asserts: mockture, there may be things rhhardin doesn’t understand about women, but there are things he understands and articulates better than I’ve seen anywhere else, and I read widely.
Very few men really understand women and those who do are a little dangerous. ;-)
In high school, most men are taught the lesson that most women are not going to want to spend time with them if they are not tall, or very handsome, or someone with a nice car. Almost all guys, except the small subset of guys who find romance with quirky women, have learned that lesson by the time they are 16 or so.
Elizabeth Warren, who, God bless her, has not been an attractive woman for a couple decades or so, never learned the lesson ... the lesson being, people like her sound like completely deluded fools when they shyly hint they might be found attractive if not for those bad men who consider them too feisty and angry.
I think she still thinks of herself as a wonderful gal, full of youthful hope and vigor.
She is not a wonderful young gal anymore and she is wrong to think of herself in the way she does think of herself, sadly.
Also, her views on the greatest issue of our day, the issue of whether it is ok to kill babies in the womb, are evil, and are certainly not the views of the average good-hearted young woman.
Ok, Ok, you convinced me. Hillary has NO good characteristics.
LOL
Supposedly female candidates proceed in "a cautious manner" and stick to "a narrow lane of acceptability" where they are "tough but likeable, strong but not pushy" and "[n]ever, ever angry."
This reminds me of someone else...
Doesn't America want someone who speaks calmly and conveys dedication and intensity without yelling and showing us angry face? Look at him! This is in victory:
But wait, that's a man. So does this mean interpreting open anger as an indicator the person is too unbalanced to make good decisions is not gender specific? Wow. Next we'll find out feminism is not an effort to achieve equality but instead an effort by women to exempt themselves from rules everyone else lives by.
I'll bite: tell me how banks and bankers rig "the game" by having a lot of money.
The Federal Reserve controlled the bond markets by buying up huge percentages of the issuance. Of course, they set the short-term rate, but they applied their "emergency measures" to the entire yield curve and also to the mortgage-backed securities market.
They created credit; almost $4 trillon worth, trillion with a T. They said they were going to undo it when the time was right. But they never have and it's now 10 years later.
Meanwhile, the stock market finally got the message that every time stocks began to fall, the Fed would begin a new QE program of credit creation. That is the Bernanke Put. No matter what happens, the Fed will come in and save the day -- you will be able to put your stock to the Fed at a nice price. So it became a one-way market.
You know that old story of the farmer with the goose that lays the golden eggs?
Hillary isn’t angry, she’s entitled
What Bumble Bee wrote upthread at 4:15. The point of Progressivism is to always be angry about something or another. I think Meade gets it, even if his beloved doesn’t. Back in the 1960s cartoonist Al Capp, famous for penning the Li’l Abner comic strip, invented Students Wildly Indignant about Nearly Everything (SWINE). Nothing has changed in a half century.
doctrev said... I don't know how much more data you need, but tens of millions of American youth have been told to take out loans that beggar them in exchange for the credentials they "require" for employment. Many pay them off, certainly, but many don't. That's the rig most of them complain about, take it or leave it.
*************************
Did Wall Street tell them to take out those loans? No. The Universities jacked up their tuition exponentially because they that the government was controlling and pushing those loans, and that students w/o the means to pay it would have to get them.
Bernie won't be able to address that issue unless he gets the government out of the student loan business, AND forces universities to lay off the layers of worthless and useless Diversity Officers they pay gobs of money to.
Of course he can also offer "free" tuition, but we all know that is (a) impossible and (b) a total scam. Somebody has to pay for all those universities, with their bricks-and-mortar, labs, faculty and Diversity hangers-on.
I wonder why you put "require" inside quotation marks. Do you have any data that shows most people who enter mid-to-large-corporations *don't* need a college education?
But OK ---what's your way to Unrig the system?
Kai: I still meet otherwise knowledgeable people who think the Fed is part of our government.
Unrig the system by reforming the Federal Reserve Act. The Fed believed it was saving the world. That's what Bernanke wrote in his book. And they went on saving the world for nearly 10 long years after the markets had found their equilibrium.
Someday their excesses will meet market reality. Could we be there, at last? At or near the highest valuations on stocks in American history.
The Fed defend their powers whenever questioned. Define your powers, what are your parameters, what are your policy rules? There are no parameters, we are "data-dependent."
Translation -- we don't know what is going to happen either, we will just react as we see fit and ONLY as we few officials see fit in any way, shape or form we feel like. The Fed is supposed to be a last-resort supplier of liquidity in the rarest and most extreme cases. It made it a permanent function and thinks no one else should limit their powers. Hubris in the first degree.
The machinations of the Federal Reserve are much like many New Deal policies, like farm price supports, that have long outlived their usefulness.
Mockturtle, you're probably right. What strikes me is the similarities between the Fed's behavior and the intelligence agencies. They both believe they have the answers for everyone and so it is an urgent national priority that they use every inch of their powers to make sure things turn out the way they are sure is the best. Arrogance of power. Hubris. One bunch, in their infinite wisdom, tried for a political coup against an elected President; the other has distorted the free markets on which our system has relied to an extent never before seen. But I'm sure it will all be just hunky-dory forever.
And in neither case is there genuine public oversight. When 'retired' CIA operatives were found to be selling surplus arms to foreign countries, did any heads roll? We aren't even allowed to know their budget.
Straw man. Nobody gives a rat’s ass if women are angry. It is preferable, however, that they not be stupid.
The Fed matches the amount of money to what the economy can do at the same time. It does this by buying back debt (increasing the money out there) or selling debt (decreasing the money out there). If there's more money out there than the economy can do at once, prices get bid up (inflation). If less, parts of the economy go idle for want of money to keep it going.
It decides in meetings a little less or a little more money is needed. Then it adjusts the target for the short term interest rate up (soaking up money) or down (issuing new money). If the actual interest rate is below the below the target, the Fed sells debt; if the actual interest rate is above the target, the Fed buys back debt.
Thus an output from the economy (the actual interest rate) tells the Fed whether to buy or sell, instead of the Fed deciding how much money to issue exactly.
Other interest rates more or less follow along, the long term interest rate being governed mostly by speculation about how well the Fed will do against inflation. The Fed can't really control the long term interest rate.
When the right woman comes along to lead the United States as President, no fussy-butt excuses will be her safety net, none will be needed.
wholelottasplainin' said...
Did Wall Street tell them to take out those loans? No. The Universities jacked up their tuition exponentially because they that the government was controlling and pushing those loans, and that students w/o the means to pay it would have to get them.
Bernie won't be able to address that issue unless he gets the government out of the student loan business, AND forces universities to lay off the layers of worthless and useless Diversity Officers they pay gobs of money to.
Of course he can also offer "free" tuition, but we all know that is (a) impossible and (b) a total scam. Somebody has to pay for all those universities, with their bricks-and-mortar, labs, faculty and Diversity hangers-on.
I wonder why you put "require" inside quotation marks. Do you have any data that shows most people who enter mid-to-large-corporations *don't* need a college education?
But OK ---what's your way to Unrig the system?
*******************************************
Oh dear. If someone's coming to me for solutions, it's because a campaign to eliminate literally everyone with higher authority is dead, including all the cadets at the military academies. But you asked, so I shall answer!
1) Conditional debt forgiveness. STEMI grads, and anyone else with renumerative careers, have the option to pay the money back, but with no questions asked. Anyone else will have to show they aren't enemies of the American nation- every year of reliable American nationalism carves another slice off their debt. And of course all majors in Women's Studies, Afro-American History, and similar enemy travelers, along with all students stupid enough to continue joining left-wing protests, get nothing. But that will really be the least of their problems.
2) Ivy League campuses and all their equipment are seized by the Trump Administration without compensation. The officers, deans, and senior administrators are universally put in front of tribunals. Maybe some faculty resign in protest, but globalization has taught us to expect a dozen candidates enthusiastically filling each position. Have you seen the competition among grad students recently?
This is a pretty bare-bones plan, obviously, but I'm not getting the campaign donations to develop a white paper. And it's still more complicated than Bernie Sanders' plan will be. Do you think he'll engage your very reasonable questions? Do you think his followers will? Fuck no! They'll scream, "Loot the Bankers!" Then they'll go to the universities for advice on what to do about their financial troubles. At which point the socialists in charge there will scream, "Loot the Bankers!" Exactly where do you think these kids are learning it from? Maybe someone will come up with a defense to this line of thinking, but they'd better do it fast, and offer something stronger than the neoliberal "nah, it'll be fine" school of kicking the can down the road.
Besides which, why are you absolving medium-to-large size corporations of their role in getting American youth to take on these punishing financial burdens? Yeah, there are lots of working-class jobs that pay substantially better than white-collar ones, like plumbing and oil production, but there are a lot of young people who trusted society to not lead them into complete bankruptcy and went right into the meat grinder. Their anger is a major part of the Sanders coalition, and that's not going away easily.
My wife and I are both introverts, to different degrees--she expresses anger in the mornings, before coffee. Once during a dispute, I gave her the 'silent treatment' for about a week. She didn't notice. I got tired of it and went back to normal. She didn't notice that either.
"Women aren't angry enough." Yep, that's a winner of an idea.
The name Hillary Clinton does not appear in that column! Does the columnist have an "expectation" that females disappear when they are unwanted?
Unless they're stalkers, then yes. Hillary pushed herself on the country, and the country said no. The country said that if she wasn't going to bring back our working class, reach out to the deindustrialized opioid towns of appalachia and the midwest, then she can forget it. And to make matters worse, she lost to a loser like Trump! A guy who had to be convinced by her idiot husband to run in the first place.
So no, she doesn't get to push herself on us any more. We want her gone. We want her to shut her fat, stupid mouth about Tulsi Gabbard and Jill Stein. And about Bernie Sanders - the presumptive front-runner and the only one with the guts to take on all the rot in American government and the Democratic party to keep it from falling into the hands of someone as craven as Trump. We want her to stop pretending she has anything to offer the Democrat party, liberals, the working class or America at large. We want her to know that when Steve Bannon says that she must not be that bright, that we agree.
We want her to know that if she refuses to learn from and make amends for her two huge failures in 2008 and 2016, then at the very least she can shut up and go away. What other kind of person refuses to stay out of the lives of people that she's messed up so grievously, unapologetically and irreparably?
A stalker. That's who.
And stalkers don't get off the hook for being female. Being not wanted means she's not wanted. Period, finish, end of fucking story.
Get the fuck out of our lives, HIllary. You've contributed nothing to history other than a loud mouth, a raging sense of entitlement and moving the country back in so many ways by at least a few steps.
"reach out to the deindustrialized opioid towns of appalachia “
Ever been to the South End of Boston speaking of opiods? Weirdly, unemployment is pretty low today even in Appalachia, and jobs are easy to find. You guys have a solution in search of a problem.
Nevada's population is slightly more than 3 million and has 692,000 registered Democrat voters. Warren and Klobuchar between them have garnered(!) 1749 total votes with 87.55 of precincts reporting, or 0.2% of Democratic voters. Of Course, Bernie got less than 1% of registered democrat voters, and Buttigeig suggests that the count of this ridiculously low number of voters was incorrect. Maybe this whole caucus thing is not the way to go, but it sure seems like no one likes Warren or Klobuchar for whatever reason. So much for Klomentum...
"Deaths of despair" have begun to drop for the first time under Trump since they began their long climb around the time of 911. Which makes sense given that Gallup has found the highest personal satisfaction ever recorded.
Harry Reid wants Nevada to abandon the caucus and do the nation’s first primary instead, taking that honor from New Hampshire, I guess, as a reward for fucking it up so badly.
Love Warren's hate.
"Of Course, Bernie got less than 1% of registered democrat voters, and Buttigeig suggests that the count of this ridiculously low number of voters was incorrect"
I think the 1% reflects the "county delegates" that get assigned. Per the NYT, it looks like about 90,000 votes have been counted, with Bernie taking more than a third.
victims.
...strong, indomitable, feisty victims
Rag mama, rag !
Women can be angry. Women voted before suffrage. Women owned and inherited property. Women... perhaps that's too much diversity. There were color blocs, stereotypes, and neither. Women set priorities. Now (pun intended), Feminists are trying to normalize another behavior, which is unfavored by both men and women. Feminists had us at human sacrificial rites, and we've been on a progressive path since.
I didn't read the article, but went to it and did a search. The search term "Palin" turned up nothing.
Only the governor of a state. Elected to mayor and governor running against the establishment. And managed to irritate the presidential candidate who picked her by being more popular than he was.
I'd vote for a ticket that had her on it still. Her personal life has gotten screwed up, but her political views are still good. No one's perfect.
Any of the current Democrat female politicians? Well, to start, they're dumb enough to be Democrats, a big strike against them...
Bad news for Warren and Amy and Hillary:
Study shows angry men gain influence and angry women lose influence
There are only two acceptable kinds of public anger, barring legitimate "righteous anger" of the Jesus-cleansing-the-temple type, which I think we can agree is not under discussion; Warren isn't fighting injustice or evil. In both cases I use the term "acceptable" advisedly. The first case: the most powerful person in the room gets angry; no one can do anything about it, so it's "acceptable," but it's counterproductive, wastes time, and makes everyone uncomfortable. Furthermore, it starts to get people thinking about whether this person deserves the power s/he has, if s/he is so out-of-control as to show such strong emotion in public.
The second: a person with *no* power, like a child, gets angry. Depending on the situation, others in the room might be indulgent or disapproving, but everyone recognizes that the public display of anger is a sign of the person's utter impotence, so - while everyone recognizes the display as untoward, everyone also recognizes it as harmless, hence it's "acceptable." But if this is a child getting angry, the responsible adult moves to teach that child that undisciplined anger is personally embarrassing and practically unhelpful. If it's an adult, the others in the room are *all* thinking, "Geez, dude, get a grip."
Which one does Warren want to be?
On behalf of myself and the men I know, we don't mind angry women. We just don't like women who are ONLY angry.
Angry is one thing. Weird little wind-up rage gremlin is another.
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