“... where the rights of women that are granted by Islam — from the right to education to the right to work — are protected, and where merit is the basis for equal opportunity.... We will take all measures in partnership with other Afghans to make sure the new Afghanistan is a bastion of stability and that nobody feels threatened on our soil.... We acknowledge the importance of maintaining friendly relations with all countries and take their concerns seriously.... We will remain committed to all international conventions as long as they are compatible with Islamic principles.... We are about to sign an agreement with the United States and we are fully committed to carrying out its every single provision, in letter and spirit.... Once it is entirely fulfilled, Afghans will see the departure of all foreign troops.... We would then celebrate a new beginning that invites all our compatriots to return from their exile to our country — to our shared home where everybody would have the right to live with dignity, in peace.”
Writes Sirajuddin Haqqani, the deputy leader of the Taliban, in the NYT.
February 20, 2020
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66 comments:
Chuck, Igna, Arm; hardest hit
He's not taking into account what god wants. God wants submission and is looking for assistants.
Just keep that crazy shit in Afghanistan.
Maybe I'm being a tad unreasonable but I find it difficult to trust the Taliban.
At any rate, I just want us out of there whatever the pretense is.
And no more immigration from that shithole.
These are fine words. Unclear who translated them. But in any case, fine words and a subway token will get you downtown.
So Islam grants rights? This makes the interpreters of Islam the granters of rights, and the deniers of rights, as they see fit. Nuh-uh. Not gonna buy that, not even gonna let them try to sell that to me.
Individual rights are inherent, inalienable, and NOT granted by any authority.
To say that rights are "God-given" is to say they are beyond any earthly powers gift, and beyond any earthly power's denial.
So it's a violent authoritarian shithole only because of foreign influence.
Sure.
Didn't they have that chance between the Soviets withdrawing and our invasion? So what happened?
Nice words. However, actions speak louder than words. And, well, the actions of Sharia-law, peace-loving Muslims have a pretty, pretty, pretty unfavorable track record.
Hope springs eternal.
Uh huh. Anyway who cares. Let them get back to raping their young boys.
Get us out of there and if they harbor terrorists hit them with cruise missiles and bombers.
"The rights of women as granted by Islam" So, no rights. Got it. Sorry baby, God says you have no rights. So shut up and make me a sandwich.
I'm sure the Taliban will be as dedicated to all of those noble ideals as they were last time they were in power.
Great. Let’s declare victory and get the hell out.
“She is the well-wisher to the freedom and independence of all. She is the champion and vindicator only of her own.”
I am skeptical. NYT are chumps. Next will have some Iranian writing about their proposed new "partnership" with Israel.
"Come, Mr. Taliban, turn over Bin Laden!"
this is the same story, his grandfather told thirty years ago,
J. Farmer said...
Great. Let’s declare victory and get the hell out.
Amen! Afghanistan is a sink hole. The British tried to control it during the Raj and failed. The Soviets tried in the '80's and failed. I don't know why we think we should be able to.
Kind of an interesting development, though. We must be putting the hurt on them in some way to bring them to the table. Even if they have no intention of carrying out what they agree to.
Troops not leaving until everything we demand is fulfilled in letter and spirit.
They must find a way to see our values in their religion. I think that’s good.
"Writes Sirajuddin Haqqani, the deputy leader of the Taliban"
And I think it's ever so cute that the elitist left in the proxy of the NYT actually believes all them pretty words.
As for me, I'll continue to be informed as the true nature of Islam but 1400 years of consistent behavior.
This reminds me of that case where some Afghan PTBs wanted to whack a citizen who apostasized from Islam. When it was pointed out that the their shiny new (American sponsored) constitution provided for freedom of religion, a defender of the justness of executing an apostate countered with something along the lines of "Yes, we believe in freedom of religion! You have the freedom to run your country in accord with your religion and we have the freedom to run ours in accord with the rules of Islam!"
I always think of this fellow when "proposition nation" types tell us that being an American has nothing to do with assimilating to any organic, historical political culture, but is just a matter of signing on to an abstract contract that says "I believe in freedom of speech/religion/etc."
But at any rate how Afghans want to run their internal show is none of our business.
Only what Islam grants.
Well, good luck with that.
Even the Sauds are loosening up. They just celebrated Valentine’s Day.
Let's take them at their word and get out. If they start their terrorist crap again just hit them with Arc Light raids.
And I laughed just a minute ago at the Babylon Bee. This is even funnier! :-D
I am skeptical, but then I was skeptical of the promises the Iranian government gave Obama.
Call me when they allow Muslim women to drive.......
J. Farmer said...
Great. Let’s declare victory and get the hell out.
Amen to That!
They must find a way to see our values in their religion. I think that’s good.
Gullible
"As long as they are compatible with Islam...." That means as long as we get to keep killing all infidels who refuse to convert or pay us a tax to stay alive in poverty with third class civil rights.
As Gen Patton said of Gen Rommel," Rommel, you magnificent bastard, I read your book."
"an Islamic system in which all Afghans have equal rights...”
Slight problem there.
"Let's take them at their word and get out. If they start their terrorist crap again just hit them with Arc Light raids."
They never did mount any terrorist attacks against us.
"I am skeptical, but then I was skeptical of the promises the Iranian government gave Obama."
And they were keeping their promises. Trump just walked away from the agreement unilaterally.
Good, once we're entirely out, we can simply bomb them like they deserve, if necessary.
"Didn't they have that chance between the Soviets withdrawing and our invasion? So what happened?"
Pakistan and its ISI.
Much to be skeptical about in that excerpt. Very nicely constructed; how many times was it re-written by the NYT editors?
In any event, I will be delighted to no longer have a military, or any other, presence in Afghanistan. It has always been a feudal system, the idea that one could establish an effective central government is but a pipe dream.
The agreement is not likely to upheld after the troops leave, but staying indefinitely isn't an option. Time to go- the Afghanis figure it all out for themselves.
Homeland is basing its final season on the withdrawl from Afghanistan.
They never did mount any terrorist attacks against us.
Utter sophistry. They sheltered the people who took down the Towers on 9/11/2001.
Taqiyya - Saying something that isn't true as it relates to the Muslim identity. This is a Shiite term: the Sunni counterpart is Muda'rat. Kitman - Lying by omission. Tawriya - Intentionally creating a false impression.
Bill, Republic of Texas said...
Uh huh. Anyway who cares. Let them get back to raping their young boys.
____________++++++++++++++++
FYI
During the Afghan Civil War (1996–2001), bacha bazi carried the death penalty under Taliban law.
USA Generals stopped USA troops from interfering with USA allied Afghan officers continuing to do the raping
Robert Cook said...
"Let's take them at their word and get out. If they start their terrorist crap again just hit them with Arc Light raids."
They never did mount any terrorist attacks against us."
Imagine that. An old New Yorker who doesn't have a clue where Bin Laden and his crew were planning and executed 9/11 from.
They must find a way to see our values in their religion.
"Must", she said.
I believe what Sirajuddin Haqqani has to say about as much as I'd believe what Barack Hussein Obama has to say.
Compare how women were treated in Afghanistan in the 1960's and early 1970's to the way they are treated today.
Seeing is believing, until then, I’m skeptical to say the least.
They must find a way to see our values in their religion. I think that’s good.
Why?
Isn't this the same thing as Douglas's penumbras and emanations?
AA: "Troops not leaving until everything we demand is fulfilled in letter and spirit.
They must find a way to see our values in their religion. I think that’s good."
smh
I was holding off on quoting Ann's words because I wasn't sure if she was being sarcastic or not. Find a way to see our values in your religion, or we'll kill you. What could be more totalitarian than that?
Of course, the poor Taliban haven't grasped that if they just roll over and accede to US military hegemony, we'll let them treat women however they want to. See Saudi Arabia, for example.
"Utter sophistry. They sheltered the people who took down the Towers on 9/11/2001."
This is not proof the Taliban were complicit in or even had any knowledge of the plans to attack the US. The actual plotting and training for the attacks took place over time in locations all over the world, including in the U.S. Does this mean we or any other of the governments where the plotters and participants were active were aware of the particulars of their activities?
Does this mean we or any other of the governments where the plotters and participants were active were aware of the particulars of their activities?
Sophistry. The Taliban were close allies of al Qaeda, and fought shoulder to shoulder with them during Operation Enduring Freedom. They picked the fight with us. Pity we didn’t kill them all.
Getting out of Afghanistan will be the icing on the Trump cake. And let's get out of Iraq, too. And minimize [better yet, end] our mercenary activities on behalf of the Saudis.
@Big Mike:
Sophistry. The Taliban were close allies of al Qaeda, and fought shoulder to shoulder with them during Operation Enduring Freedom. They picked the fight with us. Pity we didn’t kill them all.
Afghanistan's harboring of Al Qaeda was almost totally a product of Mullah Omar's personal relationship with Osama bin Laden. In fact, bin Laden's presence had been a source of conflict within the Taliban, with many officials recommending to Omar that bin Laden be removed from the country out of fear of retribution. This demand lessened, though, after the US bombed Khost and helped turn Taliban opinion against the US.
Women have 'rights' under Muslim law? Hahahahaha...
They have only the rights the men give them. And they ain't 'equal' to the mens.
And Infidels have NO RIGHTS under Muslim law.
Keep that in mind folks.
meanwhile in Libya, david Kirkpatrick is doing his doha best to tarnish general hafter who has fought off the Qatari backed Salafists, that prospered from the Libya intervention
meanwhile in Libya, david Kirkpatrick is doing his doha best to tarnish general hafter who has fought off the Qatari backed Salafists, that prospered from the Libya intervention
Have you read Kirkpatrick's Into the Hands of the Soldiers? I haven't, but several friends have recommended it to me.
Excuse me for being simplistic, but I have long wished we had nuked Tora Bora and anywhere else that suggested a difficult political or military problem.
if they just roll over and accede to US military hegemony, we'll let them treat women however they want to. See Saudi Arabia, for example.
Actually, due almost entirely to American pressure, things have started to improve for Saudi women. It's no where near acceptable yet, but every journey begins with small steps.
@Gahrie:
Actually, due almost entirely to American pressure, things have started to improve for Saudi women. It's no where near acceptable yet, but every journey begins with small steps.
What, precisely, was the "American pressure?" And I think those extremely modest reforms are mostly about selling MBS to credulous Western audiences. So, for example, while he has lifted the ban on women drivers, he has also imprisoned and tortured the women campaigners.
The plight of Saudi women is not our problem.
This demand lessened, though, after the US bombed Khost and helped turn Taliban opinion against the US.
Good thing we didn't nuke them, we might have made them REALLY mad.
So, for example, while he has lifted the ban on women drivers, he has also imprisoned and tortured the women campaigners.
I did say that the Saudi treatment of women was still unacceptable, and that every journey begins with small steps...
The plight of Saudi women is not our problem.
Perhaps, but surely it should be a concern?
It doesn't concern me.
Afghanistan for the Afghans!
Our forces there can become as isolated as a Russian division would be in Little Rock . . .
Every time I see footage from some rock pile in a Stan, guns and mortars sending an endless stream of explosives into the hills and jungles, I have trashbacks to the evening news in the late 60s. Firepower is no substitute for strategic clarity and political realism.
If Trump makes serious progress toward lessening our involvements among the Muslims, he'll deserve my vote.
Narr
BION some people don't want to be us
@Narr:
If Trump makes serious progress toward lessening our involvements among the Muslims, he'll deserve my vote.
Unfortunately, he has spent the last three years moving in the exact opposite direction.
Good thing we didn't nuke them, we might have made them REALLY mad.
Yeah, stupid countries getting mad at us just for dropping some bombs on them. Don't they know we're the good guys? Those are freedom bombs.
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