Yeah, Trump got played, and he knows it. Nice to see him face up to it and yell at himself.
Or... oh... wait... Axios says:
Both sources familiar with the conversation said Trump wasn't expressing regret for the specific vaping policy outcome, which the team believes is the right one, but rather for personally wading into vaping and e-cigarette policy in the first place rather than leaving it up to the Food and Drug Administration.The reason I think he got played is that he reacted quickly to early reports of teenagers dying or near death, glimpses of science, and earnest hysteria.
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70 comments:
I suppose Ivanka asked him to do it.
The Hysteria of Being Earnest.
Yeah, he was played. So was Charlie Baker (Gov of MA) and the MA Legislature. And lots of other folks. The Precautionary Principle at work, driven by the true "people of science".
Now do climate change.
Gottleib was the point man that got the ball rolling, looking to attack e-cig from multiple attack points- that they cause seizures, and the gateway angle- that flavors attract kids and will lead to tobacco use. All science-y theories. Sceince-ey.
I was trying to get a decent decription of "specific vaping policy outcome" and "Trump expresses regret" is all over the place.
But this isn't actually a story at all, is it, and Trump wasn't "played", was he?
"President Trump upbraided the health and human services secretary on Thursday over his administration’s ban on most flavored e-cigarettes, a proposal that Mr. Trump had vacillated over for months but ultimately endorsed, according to three people familiar with what took place."
And... so what? He took the standard politician's stance that freedom is bad for The Children™.
You mean, he listened to the propaganda?
Vaping is a way to transition from cigarettes which are far more harmful. The tobacco zealots will not admit this.
Wow a politician who admits to a mistake. How refreshing.
The Michigan legislature was played, too. The crazy thing was watching the reporting of the deaths when they would actively avoid mention the black market THC laced vape cartridges were used, not legal fruit flavors. Why would anyone trust the news or politicians after that obvious campaign?
Have any deaths occurred from the use of legal vaping products, or were they all caused by using black market oil-based CBD products? You'd think they would determine that before blindly announcing bans.
probably not, this is part of his sentimental streak, I referenced,
"You'd think they would determine that before blindly..."
reacting on emotion rather than reason?
Where ya been, pal.
Yes. The hysteria was great and immediate. And he would have been hammered by the usual suspects as a President who cares only for rich, white people if he had not made a step to do something. His step was the wrong one.
He knows better and he's saying so.
That is refreshing indeed. Kind of the like the mint flavors these idiots banned.
Earnest Hysteria is all the Rage right now, and has been for the past 3 yrs.
But i dont actually see a quote, its another game of telephone.
I saw an early comment from someone stating matter-of-factly that Melania caught Barron vaping and wigged.
I keep hearing about this ominous black market and wonder why they sell black market products in stores.
Fern got it right; it was for the kids. The moral thing to do is panic.
Vaping can be done to transition from cigarettes, or to them.
"The reason I think he got played is that he reacted quickly to early reports of teenagers dying or near death, glimpses of science, and earnest hysteria."
He is not alone in that.
I thought the GOP was through in as the majority in Congress in 2005 when the federal government leaped into the middle of the Terri Schiavo case in Florida. There was a legal process in place, the case had gone up to the Florida Supreme Court three times, and there was a Republican governor in place (Jeb Bush) who had reviewed the facts, as I recall. There was the husband who was shifty (Why couldn't he have turned responsibility over to the woman's parents? Answer: he could have.) but the Florida courts were the place to sort that out. In the event, a federal law was passed and George Bush flew back from Texas to sign it.
I said to my wife,"The Republicans are through. They have forgotten why they were sent to Washington and put into the majority. It was not to assure that every sparrow that fell had a federal remedy. It was to restrain the federal government."
In 2006, the Dems came back and we got Speaker Pelosi, Mark I.
It's a near-perfectly complete little Trump story isn't it?
~ Trump says something in which he tries to sound like the smartest, best-informed guy in the room.*
~ People laugh at it and give it the ridicule it deserved.
~ The White House will be caught up in a major problem of deciding whether to admit the latest vulgarity from Trump or not.
~ Trump blames staff for his own idiocy.
~ The grandly fundamental lack of any real healthcare policy coming out of the Trump Administration is exposed again. From the Axios article: "The administration hasn't accomplished much on health care. Congress did not repeal the Affordable Care Act — Trump's top priority — and it did not address surprise medical bills, either. The administration has done very little on drug prices, and is urging the courts to throw out protections for pre-existing conditions."
*Remember Trump's original word-jumble of a pronouncement on vaping at New Year's? It was such vintage Trump! A completely incomprehensible word salad. That Trump himself volunteered.
Naturally, on something that required a hard and/or skilled and/or informed decision, Trump would blame any misstep on others.
Hopefully he now avoids similar rash decisions in more important areas, like energy and self-defense.
Bill, Republic of Texas said...
Wow a politician who admits to a mistake. How refreshing.
Isn't this a complete mis-read?
Trump didn't make any public admission. This call, on speakerphone, was heard by a source who gave the story to Axios. Trump wasn't saying that he made a bad policy decision; Trump was seemingly blaming others for having gotten him involved personally in something where he was not able to declare a quick personal victory.
Your comment raises a good question; when has Trump ever admitted a mistake? Any sort of honest, reflective admission about anything. Indeed, any expression of human modesty and reflection about anything?
There have been little tiny showbiz bits here and there. Trump asking a woman in the audience to feel his hair. Trump referring to "orange." Practiced bits, that someone might do on a stage in Vegas. Where the absolute understanding is that it is part of the whole act.
That's it as far as I can tell. Everything else points to Trump being a profound narcissistic sociopath.
Hasn't accomplished much?
I suppose repealing the tax for not buying insurance, the linchpin of ObamaInsurance's constitutionality is a nothing. That decision only freed people to buy less expensive, privately offered plans that don't have all the unnecessary coverages like birth control pills for octogenarians. That only saved people hundreds of dollars per month.
When all you care about is D.C. power, those small victories for people across the country (amounting to billions in savings and price stability) might not mean much. But to the voters a certain racist fopdoodle sounds stupid.
...they got the vapors!!
LYNNDH said...
Earnest Hysteria is all the Rage right now, and has been for the past 3 yrs.
Giovan Pietro Bellori said...
Speaking of idiocy, hi Cuck!
Isn’t the MI Legislature made of cucks like you, Cuck?
You mean, Republicans? Yes, mostly. 22-16 in the state senate, and 58-52 in the state house. Longstanding majorities, created by lots of hard work by many Republicans years before anybody ever heard of "Trump for President."
"The reason I think he got played is that he reacted quickly to early reports of teenagers dying or near death, glimpses of science, and earnest hysteria."
IOW, the prog playbook for manipulating soap opera women.
Trump is right to be pissed at being the playee rather than the player.
How has the wonderful governor whitmer performed has she gone full granholm already?
Birkel said...
Hasn't accomplished much?
I suppose repealing the tax for not buying insurance, the linchpin of ObamaInsurance's constitutionality is a nothing. That decision only freed people to buy less expensive, privately offered plans that don't have all the unnecessary coverages like birth control pills for octogenarians. That only saved people hundreds of dollars per month.
When all you care about is D.C. power, those small victories for people across the country (amounting to billions in savings and price stability) might not mean much. But to the voters a certain racist fopdoodle sounds stupid.
But that kind of vandalism of the ACA isn't "repeal and replace."
Remember last summer when Trump promised a "phenomenal" new health care plan from his administration and that it would be out within two months?
N-O-T-H-I-N-G.
https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-healthcare-plan-to-be-rolled-out-2019-6
narciso said...
How has the wonderful governor whitmer performed has she gone full granholm already?
Far worse than Granholm, if you can believe it.
narciso said...
How has the wonderful governor whitmer performed has she gone full granholm already?
Pretty much. And the lesbian Attorney General is even worse.
Remember, I voted a straight Republican Party ticket in 2018. That included a vote for the previous AG, the unctuous Trump toady, Bill Schuette. Who got the Republican nomination by using Trump as his campaigner-in-chief, and who then got destroyed in a Michigan Blue Wave.
Did you think that you could insult me with some mention of Michigan Democrats? Did you think I'd defend them? Why?
I can believe it, when progs seize powet, they smash every institution that isnt subservient to them,
Any bill has to get through gargoyle murkowski or lacrymose collins or preening romney on a good day.
I dont believe you, if you showed any originality in your argument, but youre straight line paint by numbers.
Did you think that you could insult me with some mention of Michigan Democrats? Did you think I'd defend them? Why?
Those are your friends.
Good God! Chuck is back. Anybody seen Ritmo?
Michael K said...
"Did you think that you could insult me with some mention of Michigan Democrats? Did you think I'd defend them? Why?"
Those are your friends.
Fuck you. Where do you step off, telling me who my friends are? You post comments all the time aimed at me personally, and they never contain any substance. You keep promising to ignore my comments, and I keep encouraging you to do just that. But here you are. Piss off.
Not to mention our Secretary of State--a product of the Soros SoS project.
First thing, give illegals drivers licenses and add genders beyond m/f.
Michigan went total libtard and the 3 most powerful positions in the State are held by commie women.
Browndog said...
Not to mention our Secretary of State--a product of the Soros SoS project.
First thing, give illegals drivers licenses and add genders beyond m/f.
Michigan went total libtard and the 3 most powerful positions in the State are held by commie women.
Pretty much every Trump-endorsed, Trump-veteran, Trump-wannabe Republican in Michigan got wiped out in 2018. Don't forget about Trump's 2016 Michigan campaign chairwoman, Lena Epstein, losing the MI-11th congressional district. A district that was built as R+4 and which the now-notorious Trump critic Dave Trott had previously won handily, but abandoned out of disgust with all things Trump in Washington and in the Party.
down stream, scribbling redrum on the walls,
you notice progs never have that problem, you have to pry the gavel from their cadaverous hands, and they make sure that power never falls out of their hands,
I have considered naming my new band VAPE PANIC.
How has vaping been nuking cigarette taxes?
Epstein was a poser.
Michiganders resent being forced to stand in line for the Trump rally.
Go away chuck and find your friend. The only one. You come in here on territory that is not yours and crap all your Tramp hating dregs. ''Ricochet used to have a bunch of NeverTrumpers but only one or two are left and they are a lot more polite than you would ever be.
Your exulting in the loss of Michigan GOP officers in an off year election is just more evidence of what a creep you are.
walter said...
Michiganders resent being forced to stand in line for the Trump rally.
Well by far "most Michiganders" would resent it. Because most Michiganders don't support Trump right now.
Among the Michiganian membership in the Trump Cult, I don't think it is a matter of them minding that they have to wait to get into a Trump rally. I don't think that they mind at all. But the fact that they do have to wait creates a very long line that gives the impression of it being a much bigger event. Because they are all lined up, single file. God only knows what such a line would look like if they did that for a University of Michigan football game. It would stretch to Detroit Metro Airport.
add genders beyond m/f.
Male and female sexes. Masculine and feminine sex-correlated genders, normally distributed physical and mental (e.g. sexual orientation) attributes. And the transgender spectrum of gender attributes outside of, or diametrically opposite (e.g. trans/homo, trans/neo) to, normal. Then there are the trans-socials orientations, including men who wear dresses, and others who deny a socially designated favorable juxtaposition of the sexes.
I'm just refreshed to see your party line pragmatism will have you voting for Trump. That's great.
Meh just another day ending in y:
https://mobile.twitter.com/julie_kelly2/status/1218535469341908992
Michael K said...
Go away chuck and find your friend. The only one. You come in here on territory that is not yours and crap all your Tramp hating dregs. ''Ricochet used to have a bunch of NeverTrumpers but only one or two are left and they are a lot more polite than you would ever be.
Your exulting in the loss of Michigan GOP officers in an off year election is just more evidence of what a creep you are.
Oh I am not exalting Michigan Republican losses to Democrats. I am explaining them. Same way we'll be explaining the loss of a critically important swing Senate seat in Arizona -- the one formerly occupied by John McCain -- to Mark Kelly. A valuable Republican seat, sacrificed on the altar of Trumpism. Did you see McSally on Laura Ingraham's program? You know about Laura Ingraham, that "liberal hack" on the Fox News Channel? Lol.
Ah mark kelly, who let the tea party take the hit for sheriff dupniks criminal negligence, please show me more of your concern.
Trump knew exactly what he was doing in supporting the outlandish attack on inhaling harmless smoke. Yeah, there is the nicotine thingy but nicotine does not kill. Vapes, over the years, have been instrumental in stopping cigarette smoking.
And therein lies the rub - because Big Pharma's Pfizer has been getting away with killing stop-smoking enthusiasts since 2006 with a drug called Chantix . The FDA has ignored the 3000 or so deaths of Chantix users and their associates, suggesting that there is more help than harm.
Suddenly in 2018, Trump's head of FDA, Dr. Scott Gottlieb, issued a warning against vaping and in July 2019, he left his government post to work for Pfizer - firing up his vapes attacks. Trump immediately jumped in with his support against JUUL, et al, so now we know that there is something in this for the Trump pocketbook as well.
KACHING1
walter said...
I'm just refreshed to see your party line pragmatism will have you voting for Trump. That's great.
Not any more. I'm done. I gave the son of a bitch a chance with my 2016 vote. Never again.
And mine was one of the most important votes Trump got. One of the 11,000 or so that won him Michigan. He won't get it again. And I think he is going to have to find 16 electoral votes somewhere else in 2020. Indeed, if McSally crashes in AZ, and Trump loses AZ, and Michigan, and Pennsylvania, it's all over for Trump. Wouldn't matter what happens in Wisconsin, or Nevada, or North Carolina; all of which Trump might lose anyway, adding to the larger defeat.
And that is how one conserves conservatism.
This post definitely deserves the Chuck is Deranged tag.
Vandalism by the proper legislative practices? You're fucking stupid. When the legislature passes laws through the proper channels that is called the law. You're just too god damned deranged to make sense.
But in all seriousness, nobody believes the lies you tell on these boards. Your voter registration card has nothing to do with your politics. Your politics make you a left-of-center shitheel. You would obstruct the policies you pretend to support because of your own hatred. And that makes you ugly and stupid.
I know you're angry. But nobody cares. Yours threats to shove things into people bodily betrays your latent homosexual desire, or that you are just a sick-o. It's a pick 'em really. But your Obergefell feelings give us all a pretty strong indication.
What a dumb ass.
Racist fopdoodles are back in the prediction of elections business.
Based on your 2016 record of success you'll have to pay me $5 to pay attention to your predictions.
Interesting that the leftists on this thread - Chuck included - are so quick to bash Trump on this subject ... yet pay no attention to Democratic governors across the nation doing the same thing, if not worse.
See: Inslee, Jay.
indeed, there's a fellow on the good prosecutors blog, paul montagu, who's from the Washington area, who buys all the lawfare fusion foolishness,
’Not any more. I'm done. I gave the son of a bitch a chance with my 2016 vote. Never again.’
Is this the pussy hat thread?
I believe that more people have given up smoking by vaping than have gone from vaping to smoking. But I have no proof. Sorta like the Dems Impeachment Circus.
THEOLDMAN
Birkel said...
...
I know you're angry. But nobody cares. Yours threats to shove things into people bodily betrays your latent homosexual desire, or that you are just a sick-o. It's a pick 'em really. But your Obergefell feelings give us all a pretty strong indication.
What a dumb ass.
It takes an awful lot to get me angry enough to write something like, "I'd like to print your comment and shove it down your throat..." It takes the kind of shit you post on a regular basis. Telling other readers what my politics are. Calling me a racist. Otherwise libeling me.
Please; do everybody a favor and ignore all of my comments in the future.
I gave the son of a bitch a chance with my 2016 vote. Never again.
Might i respectfully ask a Life Long Republican, to explain Why Trump was okay in 2016;
but unacceptable now? I'd like to hear What actions he's done that's soured you?
Is the Judges? The Income tax? Inquiring minds would like to know.
Could you just state, a few of the actions that have put you off?
Fuck you, you racist fopdoodle. I cannot libel an anonymous poster on the internet. An attorney really ought to know such things.
Your desire to shove things into others' orifices is gross, LOL. You legitimately have a fixation with sexualized dominance motifs, don't you? Has your therapist had a chance to help you resolve your latent feelings? Patent, even?
As for politics, there's not a single person who comments that takes you seriously. Not one. Royal ass Inga appreciates the ideological support you offer. But her appreciating your Leftist Collectivist positioning is not about taking you seriously. That's "any port in a stupid storm" shit. Dude, you're a joke. An incompetent like yourself cannot see just how twisted you've shown yourself to be. The policies Trump has pursued are working. And they're the policies you pretend to want.
There are two possibilities that could square your absurdities:
1) You have lied to yourself about your actual conservative policy references, and/or
2) You are upset at the revelation of your own (and the people you have supported, to be fair) ineffectuality by Trump's revealed effectiveness than you are happy to have received the policy outcomes you really do (believe you) prefer.
IOW, this is a you problem. It's not about Trump.
Come at me, bro.
Dunno Gilbar,
I think you are hewing dangerously close to asking him for his end-game.
That is where he has typically gone mute.
yes, i've asked this sort of question, several times on different threads
it is ALWAYS where he goes mute
Vaping is more complex than smoking cigarettes; batteries (voltages, current settings), coils, liquids, tanks, and so on. the ban on flavorings was a knee jerk reaction to one company marketing to kids, and a group of kids using a cannabis derived liquid, hot-boxing from I understand.
Vaping has been around a good few years. I’m surprised* there has not been any, even preliminary, studies comparing cigarette use, vs vape, and any resulting change in illnesses, attributed to cigarettes.
As already noted, people go from cigarettes to vaping as a successful mechanism to eliminate tobacco use. Proof? Likely the great effort gone by politicians to ban such things. While at the same time endorsing cannabis use. (Yes, I realize sweeping generalizations).
stlcdr,
More people have died from Tide Pods (and equivalent products) than from vaping.
That's a fun data point.
As already noted, people go from cigarettes to vaping as a successful mechanism to eliminate tobacco use. Proof? Likely the great effort gone by politicians to ban such things.
let's be Serious for Just One Minute!
IF people stop smoking cigs; unless they replace every cig with a joint..
WHAT THE HELL IS THE GOVERNMENT GOING TO DO FOR MONEY???
The Entire Point, of people smoking, is to make tax dollars
(with, the BONUS, that cig smokers die quickly, and thus; are cheaper over the long run)
To think that The Government would be against smoking, would be like thinking that The Government would be against Gambling... Or Alcohol
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